>> I made you some breakfast.
( phone ringing )
Hello?
Oh, hey, Sarah,
you remember every year!
Yes, we've been married
35 years today!
And we are the same two
little kids in love.
Honey, eat your eggs before
they get cold.
We hadn't really talked about
what we were going to do,
but I'm sure we're goin' out
on the town tonight.
>> Hello, and welcome
to Director's Cut.
I'm your host,
Charles Monroe-Kane.
Here at Director's Cut,
we're dedicated to bringing you
the best in independent films
and filmmakers.
This week, we're featuring
the short films
of Troy and Frances Perkins.
They reside in Neenah,
Wisconsin, where they're both
professors.
Troy teaches film and TV
production; and Frances,
theater arts.
They spend their summers off
from teaching, making wonderful
short films.
Frances and Troy, thank you very
much and great to have you here
today.
First, that was a clip from
"Tractor For Sale," which I
love.
It was absolutely lovely.
Written and directed by you,
Troy, and produced by you.
First, Troy, tell me what the
film, "Tractor For Sale," is all
about.
>> Well, our line that we like
to tell people is that it's a
honky tonk tale of love, loss
and a tractor.
>> Wow!
Honky tonk tale of love, loss
and a tractor!
That's good.
That's what it's about.
>> That's pretty much it, right
there.
It's something that kind of
worked out for us, that we found
the ultimate honky tonk band
up in the Fox Valley area to
provide music for us and
everything.
>> Black and white, why would
you guys make it in black and
white?
>> When I first wrote the
script, the first draft, I just
always envisioned it in black
and white.
I think because as he goes on
his quest, and that's what it
really is, it's this adventure,
this journey of the hero and
everything.
It gets more and more strange
the further along he goes.
And for me, it just sort of felt
that it had that kind of
abstract nature to it, that
black and white would work well
for.
>> To help our listeners out,
the quest is, as we see from the
clip, it's his 35th anniversary.
He obviously forgot.
And his quest is to sell his
tractor, what kind of tractor?
Do you remember what it was?
It was a classic, right?
>> A '57 Oliver.
A good engine.
>> To sell the tractor to get
his wife something nice.
And then it becomes this battle.
Let's see a clip.
If you could set the clip up for
us.
It's the clip where, well, you
set it up.
>> He's already tried to sell
the tractor to a fellow farmer
who loves to buy up equipment,
and he can't sell it.
So he goes to the feed mill in
town and thinks he can try to
sell it there.
And Wes, the young guy behind
the counter, you know, who works
at a feed mill, and has dreams
and aspirations to do other
things, so he takes this
opportunity to play to the crowd
a bit.
>> Let's see the clip.
>> That'll be $142, sir.
Does that sound about right?
We're on our way.
Hey, how you doin', Pete?
>> Hey, Wes.
>> What can I get for you?
>> I'm looking to sell off one
of my tractors, Oliver '57.
>> Yeah, you want me to make a
listing for you and put it up on
the board?
>> I kind of wanted to see if
anyone wanted to pick it up
today.
>> Today, huh?
>> I can sell it off for cheap.
>> Let me see what I can do for
you.
( microphone feedback )
? ?
We got a tractor for sale.
It's a 1957 Oliver.
And we all know, the old ones
are the goooood engines.
Man, can they purr!
What color is it?
>> Green.
>> Let me tell you something
else here, ladies and gentlemen.
This prime tractor is as green
as a --- into a brand new world.
As green as the sexy corn
stalks, growing and enshrouding
the sexy, sexy fields of the
farmlands.
How about it, people?
Who wants to wheel and deal,
and make this prime piece
of machinery yours?
That's a no-can-do, Pete.
? That's a no-can-do ?
? Pete ?
>> Oh, I can not get enough
of that.
>> The hand, and chubby fingers
in the foreground.
>> I love it.
You know, watching that clip,
besides from it being very
funny, you know, I watch a lot
of independent films to do this
show, a lot of independent
films.
I like them, but one of the
things that gives them away, we
tend to have the skills with the
computer editing, and people
tend to have the skills.
They maybe even get a little
money together to do a few
things.
But it's the acting that tends
to give it away.
You have good actors in your
film.
Where do you get them?
You're the producer.
Where do you get actors in
Neenah, Wisconsin?
>> That's the hardest thing, you
know, in the world of no budget,
low budget.
You just are looking for the
best actors you can get, who are
willing to give their time,
effort and talent, out of the
goodness of their hearts.
>> Free?
>> Free, for the love of their
craft.
And these films are long days.
You know, part of the process is
showing the students that we
work with that, you know, it's a
12-hour day.
Six hours, lunch, six hours,
wrap.
So the actors are on that
schedule, too.
Many of them are used to local
theater and haven't done film at
all.
So it's hard.
But we actually called actors
from every local theater source
we could find.
Many of the fine actors you see
in "Tractor For Sale," and in
"Brothers," came from the pool
that UW Fox Valley uses for its
theater productions.
The guy who plays Wes was
actually a student at the time.
You laugh, but in the
background was the owner of the
feed mill, the artist who did
our poster, a student who
happened to be there.
>> I know that you don't spend a
lot of money on making these
films.
I want to ask you something
about that later.
But that makes me ask a
question.
Is that a way to pay for a film?
The mayor's daughter gets to
have a cameo, or you put the guy
who made the poster in the film?
>> No, no, not at all.
Actually, the gal who did our
poster came to audition.
So we gave her a part as an
extra in the background with
that look on her face.
And then she said, oh by the
way, don't you know, I'm a
painter.
She painted.
>> Oh, the other way around!
>> We agree with you, acting is
the key to the kingdom.
Because if we don't believe the
lives on the screen, we don't
believe the story.
>> It could be edited perfectly,
it doesn't matter.
>> It doesn't matter how
beautifully it's shot or how
perfectly it's edited if the
audience does not believe those
lives on the screen and their
journey, as ridiculous and funny
as it can be, then what's the
point of making a film.
I think you and I have talked
before.
You can shoot a film on your
cell phone.
>> Sure.
>> But if the story and the
actors are not compelling, who's
going to watch?
>> And if it is, then also the
editing isn't as important.
You've got to have good actors.
You've got to have the real
story.
I'm curious, "Tractor For Sale"
is 22 minutes long, shot with
obviously good equipment.
What was your budget for this?
What did it cost you guys to
make this?
>> Well, we had a lot of
in-kind, you know, food
donations and things like that.
Our cinematographer brought tons
of gear with him that we did not
pay for.
But I'd say cash, $8,000 all the
way through post, including
duplication, festival
submissions.
>> Where does the money come
from?
Do you pay for it?
See, now, and I'm going to ask
you both this question.
And I mean it in all sincerity.
Why?
I mean, it's a great film.
I'm not saying it's not a good
film.
I think it's done well.
But why would you spend your
summer making something that
cost you $8,000 for 22 minutes?
>> Because it's the love of
filmmaking.
There's really nothing like it.
I could even do away with the
festivals, screenings and
everything like that.
Just to be on set, and to be
making films about stories and
people in Wisconsin, it's that
important to us.
>> An example, our DP is very
good, working, high-end.
>> What's a DP?
>> Director of Photography.
He's working out of Minneapolis.
And you know, summertime in the
Midwest is when people make
their cash because the weather's
nice.
And he's taking time off.
This is three summers in a row,
he has taken a week or more off
of his very lucrative schedule
to come work with us for free.
And it is the love of narrative,
telling fictional stories.
If you work in branding, if you
work in commercials, if you work
in corporate video, there is a
side of your filmmaking life
that's not being fed.
I said, "Why do you keep doing
this?"
He said, "I can't imagine
not doing this."
>> It's funny, what I do now,
when I watch these independent
films, and I'm really glad I did
it with your film.
I read the credits.
I read them carefully.
>> They go on and on.
>> But they're wonderful.
We're not going to show the
scene, but there's this great
chase scene.
It's like two miles an hour with
this Firebird.
It's an old Vaudeville-looking
scene.
Then in the credits it says,
"Sweet Firebird donated by..."
I can't remember the person.
It's probably some teenager.
Then your mom cooked the food.
And I was reading credits.
The band was free.
But you see these credits
in there, "Mom," thank the mom
for the food.
You know, thanks to Fred
for the sweet Firebird.
>> Well, locations.
We're on these farms for days.
One of the farmers, whose farm
is in both films,
he re-arranged the tractors
in his shed, like four times,
so that when Pete comes to look
and find which tractor he wants
to sell, they looked right.
He's a producer in the making!
I mean, this man could produce
a movie with his eyes closed,
because he knew exactly what
kind of attention to detail
was important.
We didn't ask him to do that,
he just did it.
>> It is a funny film.
What I want to do now, is you've
made other short films.
We want to do the next one
called "Brothers."
And this clip, could you set up
this clip from "Brother."
It's the one where they're
looking at the tree.
Go ahead and set it up.
>> Yeah, it's toward the
beginning of the film.
The brothers look out at this
tree and they're basically
surrounded by subdivisions now.
>> They're farmers.
>> Yes, they're farmers.
They have the last farm that's
basically on the road.
Subdivisions are just going up
all around them, you know,
just urban sprawl in sort of
small town America
that we see all over Wisconsin.
So, in this scene, they're
looking out at this tree, which
was very much a part of their
childhood, but also their last
connection to their mother,
especially, but their family and
their heritage, and pretty much
their identity.
>> Well, let's see a clip
from "Brothers."
>> They're going to cut it down
tomorrow.
>> Says who?
>> Yeah, someone last week.
Tomorrow, it's coming down.
? ?
( children laughing )
>> A great clip
from "Brothers."
Troy, you directed "Brothers,"
we just saw a clip from that,
and "Tractor For Sale."
Both have a farm theme.
Did you grow up in a small town
in Wisconsin?
>> Yes, I did.
It's a farming family in rural
Wisconsin, near the Fox Valley.
This is something that's
happening all over up there.
It's something I'm very
passionate about.
What happens to the farmers, you
know, nobody really talks about
it.
You see farms go away and
subdivisions come in.
And my question always was, what
happens to the families.
It's, you know, all of us have
experienced or will experience
at some point, growing up in a
house, and our parents sell it
off.
We sort of lose a connection
with our childhood.
With a farm, usually that's
generations, because the family
is on the same land in the same
house.
So again, it goes back to what
happens to their identity, and
what happens to the identity of
the communities.
>> I grew up on a farm, not a
farm, sorry, a farm community in
Ohio.
It was interesting when I saw
this film and some of the clips
with the subdivisions coming in.
You know, often when you see
farming in a film, it's very
romantic.
It's either the bad guys coming
to take the farmer away because
of a foreclosure, which is not
what this film's about, or it's
this idyllic farm that's
perfectly read.
That farm looks very realistic
to what I remember seeing, which
is there's some broken down
stuff, and the number of cows.
You know, it made me realize why
I'm seeing something real.
And realism isn't always
beautiful.
It isn't always perfect.
Is that one of the reasons
you're making films like this?
Like, I want to see what's real,
no matter what it is, for other
people.
I want to see myself?
>> Absolutely.
I mean, you know, we talked
before about the difficulty of
getting good acting, actors and
everything.
You know, we go through
extensive rehearsals.
And also, when we do a location,
it's everything.
Even Amos, the farmer, we were
looking at a subdivision, and he
said, wait a minute, there's a
subdivision over here which is
more sort of "scary
subdivision," you know, kind of
those big old houses being put
up all over the place.
We definitely try to go for that
sort of realist impact of what's
happening with these characters,
and show these characters in
their environment, realizing
that environment landscape is as
much a part of the real
characters as anything else.
>> Well, let's see another clip
from the film.
This one, I think completely
speaks for itself.
This is another clip from
"Brothers."
Roll that clip.
>> Hello?
I'm Frank Meyers, senior agent
of -- properties.
You probably know us from your
neighbors.
We're the ones buying up all the
farms in this area.
>> You're the one that bought
Greg's place.
>> That's right.
And they couldn't be happier
with the sale.
The next addition
to Heaven Brook Acres.
>> I've got work to do.
>> I understand.
I've been calling you and
writing letters for over a year
now.
My company is prepared to offer
you quite a bit of money for
your farm, Mr. Kelly.
More than double the amount of
your neighbors.
Your farm offers a beautiful
view.
And that access road can connect
up the entire neighborhood.
Your farm is the last one on
this road.
It's time to think about your
family's future.
>> How much are we talking?
>> Well, you and your brother
won't have to work two jobs
anymore.
I know exactly how you feel.
You don't want to be the one to
sell, but look around you,
subdivisions, golf courses.
It's going in everywhere.
All your neighbors are gone.
Your parents have both passed
on.
Here you are, working your
fingers to the bone just trying
to stay afloat.
>> We're farmers.
It's what we do.
>> Then sell.
You can buy ten times the
livestock and land, 50 miles
down the road.
Look at those houses over there.
Those people.
They say they want real country
living.
But really what they want is
their lawn and a little quiet,
clean air.
They don't want to smell
cow -- coming from your place.
>> That is a great clip.
Troy, you grew up in Wisconsin.
Frances, you grew up in southern
California.
Can you relate to this?
>> Somewhat.
I grew up in massive suburbia,
as far as the eye could see.
That's the irony, that we come
from such different--.
The county I grew up in has
three million people in it.
Wisconsin has what,
4.5 million?
But I can relate to the idea
of identity with who you are,
especially family.
My family comes from a rural
farming environment in the
south.
And so, my mother watched this
and was like, wow, I can really
relate to this.
>> You're one step away.
>> I'm one step away from it.
And I think that so many people
are close to it, within a
generation or two.
Every single person we
encountered making this movie
said, yep, that's going on in my
neighborhood.
That's going on up the street.
And no one was surprised at all,
especially in Wisconsin.
But it has resonated with
festivals in really disparate
places like Hawaii.
>> That makes sense.
When I watch the film, I could
see why it does relate.
It's a universal theme.
>> It is.
And I think that the fact that
festivals in places that are not
undergoing this kind of
urbanization have gotten
onboard.
We're going to be in Sedona next
month.
Sedona doesn't necessarily have
farms going under to bring
development.
But the story resonates.
>> Why do you make short films
and not feature length?
Obviously, you have the skills
and the equipment, why are you
making 22-minute films and not
hour-and-a-half films?
>> Money.
You know, "Tractor For Sale" was
eight days.
"Brothers" was six days.
"Test Day," that we're going to
talk about, was three.
Six days of a crew of 25 people,
plus actors, that's like $2,000
worth of food, not to mention
all the food that was donated,
all the lunches and meals.
If you're out in the middle of
farmland in June, that's a lot
of water, a lot of soda.
That's a lot of snacks.
It's like a party for 12 hours,
except we're trying to make sure
people are being taken care of
so they could work their best.
That's a lot.
That doesn't even count the
equipment, the post-production,
the duplication.
It's an expensive process.
And we love doing it.
So, short films are a way for us
to continue doing what we love
to do.
>> So if you had the money,
you'd make feature films?
>> Absolutely.
We've got them in line waiting
to go.
We just need the cash.
>> You have the scripts written,
waiting to go.
It's interesting.
It seems sad to me, in some
sense, but that's just how it
is.
You're professors, so you have
your summers off.
You have the time.
All you need is one element,
just money.
A simple little thing.
>> But we have friends who've
made features, who have gotten
the money, gotten the financing.
They're still trying to find
distribution.
Everybody ends up going about
this in a different way.
We ended up doing it in a way
that allowed us to have real
jobs and real lives and family,
as opposed to mortgaging our
life to the bones to make the
films.
For us, this is the way it is
for right now.
>> It's interesting.
This is a totally separate thing
here, but you know, my
understanding, I'm not a
filmmaker, but when you make a
film, the director is the
omnipotent being, the dictator.
But you're married, and you
directed those films and you
produced them.
But then the film that we'll
talk about in a minute, you
directed and you produced, which
seems clever.
But what's it like having him
and vice versa as the omnipotent
being for the summer, totally in
charge of everything?
>> Everyone asks that.
No, no, everybody asks that, and
we were actually teaching on the
same campus for a while, and
everyone thought that was so
strange.
It's not by design.
We never intended to continue
working together, but it works.
I think at the end of the day--
And filmmaking is hard.
It is an arduous,
time consuming, exhausting path.
And you want to be doing that
with somebody you implicitly
trust.
And at the end of the day, you
know that if I tell him, no you
can't have it, we don't have the
money, he knows that I've gone
to every length I can to get him
what he needs, and that at the
end of the day, we can't have
it.
>> If he tells you, artistically
it has to happen?
>> In the case of "Tractor For
Sale," there was a moment where
he was ready to cave on
something.
Fine, fine, we'll just shoot
a cutaway and we'll fix it.
And I said, no, no, no, we are
doing what you want
artistically.
If it means a re-shoot, if it
means re-hiring equipment and
all that stuff, that's what it
means.
But once you're making the
movie, you can't dump it just
because at the tenth hour of the
day, something got hard.
So I think that level of
protection is there, and it
really is hard to get anyplace
else.
>> Does it spill over into the
rest of the day, when you go
home to hang out with the kids?
Hey, I'm still in charge.
>> No.
>> That's good.
>> The film geekiness does.
It's constant.
It's at all points of the day.
I mean, we're watching TV and
we're talking about something in
the film.
It's really kind of sad that
that's where we are.
But it's what we love to do, so
it's what we'll talk about.
And what we talk about is what
we love to do.
>> You were the producer for
these last two films, but then
you took the director's reins
for "Test Day."
>> I have to say that we didn't
pay entirely for "Test Day,"
because I did get a grant, a
professional development grant.
We got some little grants along
the way for the other films.
But I wrote it and made it small
to fit within the money we were
allowed.
>> Well, let's see it.
I don't think this clip needs
any set up at all.
Let's see the opening clip
to "Test Day.
Roll that clip.
>> You ready?
>> Yeah, I guess I'm ready.
( pencil sharpener whirring )
>> These are the ones
that I'll allow you to use
on the exam today.
( loud gulp )
? ?
( loud zipper sound )
( clock ticking loudly )
>> That was a clip from
"Test Day."
Frances, you're the director
of "Test Day."
You did this collaborating
with students.
It's interesting, because not
all the students were film
students.
>> No, we opened the
collaborations on all three
films up to any student who
wanted to collaborate.
>> Anybody?
An English major?
>> Yes, most of them are film
students.
And in fact, most of them are
UW-Oshkosh film students, but
the background actors, and many
of the actors in "Test Day" were
from UW-Fond du Lac, where I
teach.
>> What's that like?
It must be a little frustrating.
>> No, it's awesome.
>> For us, it's basically an
extension of what we're doing in
the classroom already.
So it feels pretty natural.
>> What are they learning?
Everything?
>> They learn everything.
They learn about how long the
days are, how the pace is.
Our cinematographer is a
professional.
He's asking them for
professional level work, which
is not always easy when they're
used to working just with each
other on these weekend blitzes
that they do.
They learn the chain of command.
They learn the hierarchy of the
positions on a set and how they
work together.
And they love it.
It's professional filmmaking
without the paycheck.
And as you know, in Radio, TV
and Film, you've got to do
something for free first before
someone's going to pay you.
This way, they're getting--
>> Listen to us, you've got to
do something for free first.
>> And this is the way to do
that, and get some really good
experience with professionals
and at a professional pace.
>> You guys were saying earlier,
both of you, that it was all
about money.
You have the time.
You have the infrastructure and
the equipment.
And that you would make films
full-time.
But I'm curious.
In Neenah, do you have
everything you need?
Could you be, forget teaching,
have a decent standard of
living, you know, make films
that you're proud of, the way
you want to make them, can that
be done in Neenah?
Or if you have the funding,
would you have to go to LA, or
even Milwaukee.
Can it be done in small town
Wisconsin?
Can you really make good films?
>> I think with the technology,
just all the change that's
happened over the past five
years, I absolutely believe that
it can happen.
Now, I say that realizing that
our cinematographer has brought
a lot of the equipment from
Minneapolis.
But I think that we have access.
We're close enough to Chicago
and Minneapolis that anybody in
Wisconsin can get anything that
they need to make any type of
film.
>> Anywhere.
>> We're not talking the big,
big budget films that need the
larger crews.
We're talking the lower,
I'd say, $5 million on down.
I think there's definitely the
locations, the infrastructure,
actors, and all those things.
It's just a matter of having the
money to do it.
You asked, could we make our
living doing this, doing solely
this?
If we had the seed money to
start the first film, like to
get the ball rolling.
>> You can still live in Neenah
and do it.
>> That would be ideal.
It's such a nice place to live.
>> If it happens, give me a
call.
We'll have you back and I'll be
all excited because you got to
stay there.
>> We've got features that are
set in Wisconsin.
We just need some funding to get
them going.
And hopefully, the first one
will let you get another, and
another will get another.
>> I've interviewed a lot of
independent filmmakers, and
people are very excited.
They're very optimistic, as are
you.
I applaud you.
When you make more films, call
us.
We'd love to have you back on.
Thank you very much
for being on the show.
>> Thank you.
>> And thank you all of you
for joining us
and watching today.
For more information
on the films
of Troy and Frances Perkins,
including where to watch them,
please go to:
wpt.org/directorscut.
While you're there,
send us an email.
We love to hear from you.
I'm your host,
Charles Monroe-Kane.
For everyone here
at Director's Cut, thank you
very much for joining us.
Check the gate.