>> The people that came out
to Foggy Bottom, all the
variety of people, to me,
was always just incidental.
That was always just better
to me.
>> There's never enough pillows.
And you sometimes,
you'd literally use a tire,
you know, an old tire
as your pillow.
And you get these blankets,
they're like flannel shirts,
out of this pile
that they had in the basement.
And the stuff stunk so bad,
but since you're sleeping on,
you know, the cement floor
of this basement,
it was better than nothing.
>> It was all part of
the kind of vision or dream that
I had of like, just this like
a weird rock-hippie commune,
you know, like, just where
everybody's welcome.
And they're always just hanging
out, and somehow, they don't
have to do anything else.
>> Hi, you're welcome,
and you don't have to
do anything else, either.
Welcome to Director's Cut.
I'm your host,
Charles Monroe-Kane.
Here at Director's Cut,
we're dedicated to bringing you
the best in independent films
and filmmakers.
Our film this week
is a documentary
called "Breakdown."
The documentary is a look back
at three teenage friends,
who in 1989, started
a punk heavy metal band
called Foggy Mountain Breakdown,
of FMB, for short.
The band's not famous now,
and of course, they broke up
and all the members
went their separate ways.
But those years in the band
created who they are today.
"Breakdown" is produced
by Jason Gullickson
and directed and written
by Matthew Cribben.
Excellent to have you guys here.
Jason, you were in the band.
>> That's right.
>> Tell me about
Foggy Mountain Breakdown.
>> Well, the band started,
you know, not really as a band.
It was basically the three of
us, myself and Craig Hinricks,
or Tone, in the film.
And Joe Sanborn.
There was a few other guys
hanging around, as well.
But really, we just started
kind of goofing with instruments
and equipment, and things.
So you know, none of us
had a musical background.
None of us were trained.
And we really had no right
to think that we could
form a band.
>> But you did!
>> But we did.
>> You were in Janesville?
>> Well, Edgerton
is where we started.
We kind of spread out, you know,
spread our empire.
>> The fog!
>> Milton and Janesville.
>> Were there other punk bands
in that area?
>> No.
>> Matthew,
you weren't in the band.
>> I wasn't in the band.
>> So why did you
want to make the film?
>> I knew some of these guys
from kindergarten.
I knew Jason, I don't even
remember how far back.
>> Was he a brat
back in kindergarten?
>> That came out later.
But I was actually living,
not in that area at the time.
And I would come and visit, and
I would see this band forming,
or what I saw
as this band forming.
That always
kind of stuck with me.
Years later, I came across
this bag of old video tapes,
literally in a grocery bag.
And I started watching them.
And I thought, wouldn't it be
great to put these together
and do something interesting.
>> Tell me, since you weren't
in the band, what was it like?
It was a small town
in Wisconsin.
There were no punk bands.
I can imagine people
absolutely hated it.
And what was it like?
And Foggy Mountain,
we'll get into this later,
but there was almost like
a cult thing going on.
You guys had a place
where you lived.
What was it like
being an outsider?
Was it kind of a cult following
thing?
Do you guys talk about it now,
and be like oh, you remember
the Foggy Mountain Days,
that was awesome.
>> I don't know about
a cult following.
But yeah, it was a break
from the usual everyday life.
Once a month or something,
I would go to Foggy Mountain
and just hang out with the guys,
and just catch up,
like we had never left.
You know, just hang out
for a couple days.
Then I'd have to go back
to my normal life.
>> We're going to see
another clip from the film.
Set it up.
It's a clip about Denim.
Tell me a little bit
about Denim.
>> Well, Denim was one of
the earlier experimental bands
that we formed.
And you know, what had happened
is that we'd been playing
together, and we'd been doing
covers, and things.
We had this serious band.
A couple of us wanted to do
something that was more fun,
because eventually that gets
boring, being serious.
So we thought wouldn't it be
a great idea to have a band
where nobody knows
how to play the instruments
that we're playing.
In addition, what we did, we all
got up at 5:00 in the morning,
which normally, we would have
slept until at least 10:00
at that time,
which added to the confusion.
We stood around in bathrobes
and moon boots, and basically
completely failed
at playing instruments.
That was the basis for Denim.
>> Wow, let's see a clip, then.
>> We had this idea.
I'm not even sure
where it started.
It started with us getting up
like at 6:00 in the morning
one day.
And Tone, and I, and Joe,
thought we should make a band
where everybody plays
an instrument
they don't know how to play.
That was how Denim was born.
>> At that time, Jason was just
learning how to play guitar.
So he was doing like the most
awesome stuff in the whole
entire world.
I didn't play guitar.
Jason had to play guitar.
Joe played bass.
Then I did like weird effects
and the voice of, basically
Bill Hope, which that's what
it's supposed to be for Denim.
And we had awesome songs, like
Bananaside and Burning Hoe.
We had other songs,
like Macho Botonist, which
I didn't really understand
what a botonist was back then,
anyway.
But I understood it was like
someone who played with plants,
which is even funnier,
because we met, actually,
some botonists.
He doesn't seem to appreciate
the song, the Macho Botonist,
which is too bad.
But most people don't appreciate
Denim, because you know,
it's such intelligent work.
It was something that,
it was really ahead of its time.
It's ahead of its time
right now.
You know, people don't
appreciate the subtleties
that went into it.
You know, Jason, he put
stuff in there that I think
would make Mozart cry.
( laughing )
>> I'm sure how it would
make Mozart cry.
How old were you guys
doing this?
>> Boy, I think when we
started--
>> 15.
>> Yeah, just before you could
drive, because you were stuck.
>> It would give you
something to do.
Yeah, you're stuck in Edgerton.
You need something to do, so you
might as well make Mozart cry.
>> Exactly!
>> One thing I want to ask you
about, and this is a filmmaking
question as well.
You know, your film
really captures, I think,
as a documentary, really well,
the DIY culture
of what these guys were doing.
A lot of people don't get that.
They see this professional
behind-the-band stuff on MTV.
And you get the DIY thing.
How important do you think that
was to the band, as you noticed
it, and for you guys as band
members, kind of that DIY thing?
Explain to our listeners
what the DIY culture thing is.
>> Sure, well, you know,
a lot of--
What's funny, for us,
this isn't a cult or anything.
We all grew up, you know,
in a small town,
without a lot of resources.
So if you wanted something, you
couldn't go to the university.
You could barely go to
the library to get a book on it.
So you just kind of figured
it out yourself,
and experimented, and whatnot.
So, you know, through some
roundabout way, we were leaked
a little bit of information
about what punk was.
>> You weren't aware that
there were bands,
like wearing eyeballs, and
performing, or the punk scene?
>> No.
>> That's so interesting.
>> My friend Andy somehow
got introduced to that whole
zine culture.
And we started a little zine,
because at the time, we were
into freestyle biking
and riding ramps,
and that kind of stuff.
We got access to a photocopier
at Joe's dad's law office.
We starting making this thing.
So we kind of got that,
but we never really knew.
Honestly, we didn't know what
punk was really about until,
like, probably high school.
We had a buddy who ran away
from home and came back
with Dead Kennedys tapes
and Sex Pistol stuff.
>> Wow, the guy who ru away
and comes back with good music.
Thank God for him, right?
What was it like for the
small town, for the other kids
who weren't in a band?
You weren't in a band.
What was it like?
Was this like a break
from reality?
Was it a place to go party?
Was it just a place
to get the heck away
from small town Wisconsin?
What was it like
hanging out with these guys?
>> It was more like just getting
away from the usual mundane
life, and you know, getting in
contact with people you could
relate to, and just, you know,
a culture where you could be
yourself a little bit more,
rather than what everybody else
wants you to be like.
>> I assume you guys
were the outsiders, right?
You weren't the quarterback?
You might have been.
>> Oh, right, well,
I was a cheerleader.
( laughter )
>> So this was for the outsiders
there, as well, in the town.
And that's good.
Now, when you made the film,
did you try to keep that ethos,
that kind of punk aesthetic?
Did you want to make it
in the same way?
>> Absolutely.
That was just our whole goal
of making the film,
is you know, we started out,
we didn't even know
what we were doing,
making this film.
So we were just
kind of keeping up the same.
>> Right.
>> Same way as making the band.
>> We have been into filmmaking
since we were kids.
And we always looked at it like,
well, you can make movies
when you have a rich uncle,
or you get a bunch of money,
or you happen to know somebody
at a studio.
But it's something
we're never going to do.
And then, you know, ironically,
we had you know, done all of
this, everything we needed to do
to become filmmakers,
we'd already done with a band
years ago.
I'd read a book that talked
about the business end of it,
and suddenly realized that
you don't have to,
especially in this day and age,
with the technology we have,
you don't need to know somebody
or be in, to make a movie.
So we thought, well,
let's see what we've got.
Matt had this bag of tapes.
He's like, we should just try
cutting this as a documentary
as an exercise.
>> A great idea.
There's a lot of people with
bags of tapes out there that
don't realize they can do it.
Let's see another clip.
This one is my favorite clip.
This is of Foggy Mountain
Breakdown's first performance.
So let's roll that clip.
>> The actual performance
is really a blur.
>> Ladies and gentlemen,
Foggy Mountain Breakdown!
( cheers and screams )
>> It was kind of funny,
because 99% of the crowd
was basically like--
What is going on?
What is the meaning of this,
you know.
Dumbfounded.
I mean, we could hardly
see them, because the lights,
you can't really see much more
than the front row.
So that was most
of the audience.
Except for like five people
in the front row, who were,
you know, people we knew, who
literally got up and screamed
during the beginning of our set,
halfway through it,
and then at the end.
Something even went wrong.
It seems like maybe
they thought we were done,
or they had had enough of us,
and the curtain closed
before the end of our set.
( cheering )
But we managed to convince them
to open it back up.
>> That was a great clip
from Foggy Mountain Breakdown,
your first performance.
Where did the name come from?
Did you name the band?
>> You know, it actually came
from us arguing about a name.
Everybody had a really
strong feeling about
what they wanted to call it.
>> Sure, that's a big thing
for a punk band.
>> We couldn't agree.
So then, Andy, the bassist
just started calling it.
He really hated the names.
So whenever we'd go somewhere,
we'd talk about the band, and
somebody would ask what it was,
he would just tell them it was
Foggy Mountain Breakdown,
mainly as a joke, because
we were listening to these
Steve Martin records,
and he's playing banjo music.
And so, it was like
the least cool name possible.
But he started using it.
And people started coming to us,
oh, yeah, you guys
are Foggy Mountain Breakdown.
So that's what happened.
>> Isn't Foggy Mountain a place?
>> Well, that's what we ended up
calling the place where this
kind of all went down.
>> The headquarters, right?
>> Right.
>> What was it like up there?
There are clips from it,
but it seems to have a bit
of bigness to it.
What was that place like
up there?
>> It was like its own world.
It's too bad we didn't have
any clips that survived
over the years.
It was a place
out in the middle of nowhere,
like an old farmhouse.
A friend of ours, Joe,
lived there.
His parents were very
accommodating to let us
come over, let the band play.
And yeah, the band had their way
and we had our way.
>> It seemed like
a lot of people.
From what I get,
it was definitely a party pad.
>> It was weird, you know,
because it started out
with just a couple of us.
Then, as the band kind of
was playing out,
people would hear more about it,
and people would just
kind of drift in.
But there wasn't any formal
recruiting or anything going on.
It was a place you could go
and basically, you know,
Joe's parents encouraged art.
So essentially, anything goes,
as long as nobody
gets hurt bad enough that
we can't remedy them on site.
Other than that,
that was kind of the scene.
>> As long as you can remedy it
on site, it's okay.
That's good.
I'll remember that for my kids.
I lived for years in squats.
I lived in Amsterdam
and in Prague as a squatter.
I was part of
an anarchist movement.
I was very active in that,
and definitely very active
in the punk scene there.
There was always this thing
in the back of my mind,
that I knew that this was
a fleeting moment.
It was not a sustainable
lifestyle.
I think there's a clip coming up
where you're sleeping on a tire.
I remember doing that, and
drinking too much, and just
like, loud music and fights.
It wasn't healthy.
And it was great.
But it wasn't sustainable.
Did you guys always think and
know in the back of your mind
that this is it.
This is going to end.
This can't last.
Or did people think
we can make this work.
>> I don't even think
we thought far enough ahead
to imagine anything lasting.
We were so in the moment.
You'd think about the next day,
for us, like planning a gig
a week out ahead of time
was as far forward as any of us
were really concerned with.
I think the biggest thing that
we get, and this kind of goes
back to the whole DIY thing,
is basically like working with
what you have.
So we didn't care what happened.
Whatever was handed us,
we'd just take that on next.
>> Well, the band of course,
did end.
And to me, you guys went out
with a blaze of glory.
Tell me a little bit
about the Good Friday show.
We're going to see a clip
from the show.
Tell me a little bit
about the Good Friday show.
>> Sure, well, like I said
before, we were taking the band
very seriously.
And looking back,
it's really too bad,
because it kind of spoiled it.
But at the point that this show
came up, we weren't really sure
what we were going to do next.
We were playing parties,
and doing things like that,
and putting on our own shows.
But we had kind of
hit the ceiling, you know?
And then, in the mean time,
there had been a bit
of a punk movement brewing in
the bigger areas around there.
And somehow we ended up,
through some connection,
one of the bigger regional bands
wanted to be part of some show
out in the middle of nowhere,
which was our expertise.
So they asked us to be involved.
Really, I think they just
called us because we had a PA.
>> That's good enough.
>> Right, so then
we thought we had to do it.
We had no time to get ready.
Because we were so serious,
we needed time to practice.
>> Right.
>> And since we knew
we couldn't do it like perfect,
we thought, let's just make
a joke out of it, basically.
>> There were some deer
involved.
>> Right.
Well, we're all still
kind of fuzzy on exactly
how this happened.
I mean, the band lineup, before
this, Andy was lead singer
and playing bass.
But we started playing with
this guy, Jace, who you've seen.
And we just were practicing
in the garage.
He kind of introduced us to
stuff like the Butthole Surfers
and the more kind of
abstract things.
And so we were playing with him.
I don't know if Andy didn't want
to do the show or something, but
basically, one way or another,
Andy chose just to play
and Jace was going to sing.
So, this rib cage,
I don't remember.
They picked it up someplace.
It was in the garage
where we were practicing.
And one time, Jace
just puts it on like a hat
and keeps singing.
He thought it was cool.
>> It was an actual--
>> Yeah, it was.
>> A real deer carcass.
>> They found a couple.
This is the kind of thing.
Like, Foggy Mountain was--
>> It doesn't get more punk
than that.
It doesn't get more punk
than wearing a deer carcass.
Let's check out a clip
from the Good Friday show
from Foggy Mountain Breakdown.
>> We did a show that was unlike
any show that had been done
around this area at that time
for a few different reasons.
And Jace definitely
being the number one reason.
? ?
He was unbelievable that night.
And Jason, as always,
kicked ass on stage.
He had a real persona.
And that night, he had his
black turtle neck sweater
pulled up over, you know,
over his nose and mouth.
He looked like a knight, was
all I really kind of remember.
And you know, just the way
he moved around,
it was great.
I think those two things
were the biggest things
that made the show what it was.
>> It's kind of weird that
when you're in a band,
and then you actually have
people come out,
you're in a band
and like want all your friends
to think that you're cool
and good, and stuff.
And then you actually have
people come out to watch you
for the first time.
At the time,
it was a pretty big show.
I don't remember counting heads
or anything.
But for, you know, when
there's people at a concert
that you don't recognize,
with their eyes on your band,
you'd think that you should
want to entertain them
and really put everything
you've got into it.
But for me, I chose to use
that opportunity to sit down
on the stage and sing lyrics
that weren't in English,
that I didn't even know.
>> So we broke some TVs,
so we had to sweep up some glass
that people might have been
upset about it.
They can (no audio), you know.
Fine, we gave them something
to talk about, man.
And anything you talk about
in Janesville, you know,
in that area, is awesome.
>> You're asking for it.
If you're in a punk rock band,
to this day, I still believe
if you're going to be upset
by people hating you, then
you're not playing punk rock,
you know?
Punk rock is music
made to offend jocks.
And it's just as much
about offending
the 99.9% of major society
as it is pleasing the .1%
that actually likes the music
that you play.
>> But this really, you know,
talking to people afterwards,
it really alienated
a lot of people
who were our "fans."
But it had to be done.
>> It had to be done.
Matthew, when these other guys
saw the documentary,
what did they think of it?
>> I was surprised,
they loved it.
I didn't have any loftier goals
putting it together
than for the old guys
to get a tape of it, watch it,
and say, hey, yeah, I remember
those days.
When it came together,
everybody said they enjoyed it.
>> Where are these guys now?
So you're here, making films.
But what are these guys
all up to?
>> Well, Tone is a programmer
at an insurance company.
Joe is actually a chef here in
Madison, well known, actually.
Let's see, Derrick is the one
who continued on with music.
And so, from our band,
he spun a couple off,
and eventually
became this band, 2211.
They've done a couple things.
They've done some MTV stuff.
They're also playing around.
What's cool about this project,
is it actually reconnected us
with Derrick.
We didn't even expect we'd be
able to get a hold of him.
And since then, we've been
working collaboratively with him
to do some scores
for other projects.
>> That's great.
>> Yeah, it's cool.
Jace did another band,
and then I'm not sure
what he's up to at the moment.
But he's had a bunch
of interesting careers
in the meantime.
>> I can bet.
>> Andy is still around.
I see him once and a while.
>> Is this a glory days film?
Is this what it's about?
I'm not trying to make fun of it
when I ask that question.
At one point, you were talking
about making fun of the jocks.
The critique of that always is,
that guy scored a touchdown,
but now he's sitting in the bar
just saying, hey, remember when.
Is that what this is
for these guys?
>> What's shocking is that,
so we made this film, and like
Matt said, we basically started
out doing it as an exercise
to learn the tools.
And since then, it's kind of
gone out and kind of taken on
a life of its own.
We've actually run into a lot of
the guys who, you know,
maybe were indirectly critiqued
by the film,
and they loved it too.
>> Interesting.
>> What's totally been stunning
to us, is you make a film
and you kind of think,
you know what,
here's our audience.
Or this is who it's going to
appeal to, initially, at least.
And we were completely wrong
about that with this film.
>> It's good to know, though.
So what are you guys
working on next?
What's your next project?
>> We're working on another
feature length documentary.
It's based in the Madison area.
It's more of
the motorcycling culture.
A local group of motorcyclists
and a local event that, well
they don't really host anymore,
but it's explained in the film
how they came up with this.
>> No title yet, you guys
are still working on it, right?
>> Right.
>> But you brought a clip
for us.
Let's check out a clip
from their film
that's going to come out later.
>> Bruce had this vision
of mimicking--
Not mimicking, doing something
like the Europeans and the
English were doing with their,
you know, café races, where
they'd show up at one café,
and there'd be a big group
there.
They'd have a cup of coffee,
or whatever it is they had.
And then they would hop on their
bikes and race on down the road
to the next café.
He had this idea of sort of
culturally identifying
with that,
and creating this local Madison
version of a café race.
>> And the idea was to try
to have a ride that would appeal
to the offbeat, the different.
The idea was people would bring
their old restored bikes out,
and so forth.
We had about 35 motorcycles
show up the first time
in Pine Bluff.
We couldn't believe it.
It was fantastic.
It was a long line
of motorcycles.
In those days, you didn't see
long lines of motorcycles
that much.
And of course, what it's become
now is just, you know, madness.
I mean, there's a thousand
motorcycles.
>> Thanks and welcome back.
I see that clip and I think
to myself, there's a lot
of great stories out there.
From your talking about
a punk band, to these guys
forming a motorcycle club.
What attracts you
to those kind of stories?
People aren't really
telling that story very much.
>> Well, I think it all ties in
with Breakdown,
the original band, just that
do it yourself attitude,
you know, just starting
something.
Making something out of nothing.
That's just kind of been
our motto from day one.
And it's just something
that appeals to us.
And we're finding
it appeals to other people.
We just want
to bring the stories out.
>> You guys are taking it
up a level.
You're starting a company,
as well, right,
called Second Society?
Tell me a little bit
about your film company.
>> Well, the film company
is basically myself and Jason.
It just kind of stems from,
you know, just kind of
the culture that we had
way back when.
And you know, just doing things
creatively, you know,
bringing ideas together.
>> And a lot of these things,
whether it's film or music,
or really any creative endeavor,
there's a lot of people who--
Everybody has good ideas,
and there's a lot of things
that seem like barriers,
or maybe they're just used
as crutches.
For what we're finding out
the hard way, is that the only
real thing that prevents you
from doing these things
is your desire.
As an organization of what we
can do, is just enlighten people
to the fact that, you know,
you want to make a movie,
then pick up a camera
and start shooting a movie.
Or you want to start a band
and you don't know how to play.
Well, go to Goodwill and buy
a $5 guitar and figure it out.
The beauty of this approach
is that you don't just learn
one little segment, like you
don't learn cinematography.
You don't learn the bass.
It's like you learn
how to solder.
>> That's funny.
I can't remember who said it,
Thomas Edison,
invention is 99% perspiration,
1% inspiration.
And people forget
that 99% of hard work.
That can be the fun part of it.
>> The thing is,
being successful,
and being more successful
than say your contemporaries,
at least to me,
is being able to fail faster.
>> That's a better quote.
>> That's really the difference.
The only way you can not succeed
is to give up.
And it sounds corny.
It might seem even naive,
but that's really what got us
as far as we have so far.
Had we went to the studio,
or even a TV station, and said,
we want to make this thing,
can you give us some resources,
they would've said no.
But instead, we just pretend
like that doesn't exist.
We grab a bag of tapes
and just start hacking at it.
>> Thank you very much,
both of you, Matthew, Jason,
for joining us.
It's very inspiring.
People should get out there
and go to Goodwill
and buy a bass.
Go buy a camera and go do it.
>> Absolutely.
>> Thank all you for watching
Director's Cut.
For more information
on today's film, or any of
the films featured on our show,
please go to:
wpt.org/directorscut
While you're there,
send us an email.
We'd love to hear from you.
I'm your host,
Charles Monroe-Kane.
And for everyone here
at Director's Cut,
thank you for joining us.
Check the gate.