9DCU0111HD_Directors_Cut_Studio_Transcript

 
 That was always just better to me.  There's never enough pillows.  And you sometimes, you'd literally use a tire, you know, an old tire as your pillow.  And you get these blankets, they're like flannel shirts, out of this pile that they had in the basement.  And the stuff stunk so bad, but since you're sleeping on, you know, the cement floor of this basement, it was better than nothing.  It was all part of the kind of vision or dream that I had of like, just this like a weird rock-hippie commune, you know, like, just where everybody's welcome.  And they're always just hanging out, and somehow, they don't have to do anything else.  Hi, you're welcome, and you don't have to do anything else, either.  Welcome to Director's Cut.  I'm your host, Charles Monroe-Kane.  Here at Director's Cut, we're dedicated to bringing you the best in independent films and filmmakers.  Our film this week is a documentary called "Breakdown. " The documentary is a look back at three teenage friends, who in 1989, started a punk heavy metal band called Foggy Mountain Breakdown, of FMB, for short.  The band's not famous now, and of course, they broke up and all the members went their separate ways.  But those years in the band created who they are today.  "Breakdown" is produced by Jason Gullickson and directed and written by Matthew Cribben.  Excellent to have you guys here.  Jason, you were in the band.  That's right.  Tell me about Foggy Mountain Breakdown.  Well, the band started, you know, not really as a band. 

 It was basically the three of us, myself and Craig Hinricks, or Tone, in the film.  And Joe Sanborn.  There was a few other guys hanging around, as well.  But really, we just started kind of goofing with instruments and equipment, and things.  So you know, none of us had a musical background.  None of us were trained.  And we really had no right to think that we could form a band.  But you did! But we did.  You were in Janesville? Well, Edgerton is where we started.  We kind of spread out, you know, spread our empire.  The fog! Milton and Janesville.  Were there other punk bands in that area? No.  Matthew, you weren't in the band.  I wasn't in the band.  So why did you want to make the film? I knew some of these guys from kindergarten.  I knew Jason, I don't even remember how far back.  Was he a brat back in kindergarten? That came out later.  But I was actually living, not in that area at the time.  And I would come and visit, and I would see this band forming, or what I saw as this band forming.  That always kind of stuck with me.  Years later, I came across this bag of old video tapes, literally in a grocery bag. 

 And I started watching them.  And I thought, wouldn't it be great to put these together and do something interesting.  Tell me, since you weren't in the band, what was it like? It was a small town in Wisconsin.  There were no punk bands.  I can imagine people absolutely hated it.  And what was it like? And Foggy Mountain, we'll get into this later, but there was almost like a cult thing going on.  You guys had a place where you lived.  What was it like being an outsider? Was it kind of a cult following thing? Do you guys talk about it now, and be like oh, you remember the Foggy Mountain Days, that was awesome.  I don't know about a cult following.  But yeah, it was a break from the usual everyday life.  Once a month or something, I would go to Foggy Mountain and just hang out with the guys, and just catch up, like we had never left.  You know, just hang out for a couple days.  Then I'd have to go back to my normal life.  We're going to see another clip from the film.  Set it up.  It's a clip about Denim.  Tell me a little bit about Denim.  Well, Denim was one of the earlier experimental bands that we formed.  And you know, what had happened is that we'd been playing together, and we'd been doing covers, and things.  We had this serious band.  A couple of us wanted to do something that was more fun, because eventually that gets boring, being serious. 

 So we thought wouldn't it be a great idea to have a band where nobody knows how to play the instruments that we're playing.  In addition, what we did, we all got up at 5:00 in the morning, which normally, we would have slept until at least 10:00 at that time, which added to the confusion.  We stood around in bathrobes and moon boots, and basically completely failed at playing instruments.  That was the basis for Denim.  Wow, let's see a clip, then.  We had this idea.  I'm not even sure where it started.  It started with us getting up like at 6:00 in the morning one day.  And Tone, and I, and Joe, thought we should make a band where everybody plays an instrument they don't know how to play.  That was how Denim was born.  At that time, Jason was just learning how to play guitar.  So he was doing like the most awesome stuff in the whole entire world.  I didn't play guitar.  Jason had to play guitar.  Joe played bass.  Then I did like weird effects and the voice of, basically Bill Hope, which that's what it's supposed to be for Denim.  And we had awesome songs, like Bananaside and Burning Hoe.  We had other songs, like Macho Botonist, which I didn't really understand what a botonist was back then, anyway.  But I understood it was like someone who played with plants, which is even funnier, because we met, actually, some botonists.  He doesn't seem to appreciate the song, the Macho Botonist, which is too bad.  But most people don't appreciate Denim, because you know, it's such intelligent work. 

 It was something that, it was really ahead of its time.  It's ahead of its time right now.  You know, people don't appreciate the subtleties that went into it.  You know, Jason, he put stuff in there that I think would make Mozart cry.  ( laughing ) I'm sure how it would make Mozart cry.  How old were you guys doing this? Boy, I think when we started-- 15.  Yeah, just before you could drive, because you were stuck.  It would give you something to do.  Yeah, you're stuck in Edgerton.  You need something to do, so you might as well make Mozart cry.  Exactly! One thing I want to ask you about, and this is a filmmaking question as well.  You know, your film really captures, I think, as a documentary, really well, the DIY culture of what these guys were doing.  A lot of people don't get that.  They see this professional behind-the-band stuff on MTV.  And you get the DIY thing.  How important do you think that was to the band, as you noticed it, and for you guys as band members, kind of that DIY thing? Explain to our listeners what the DIY culture thing is.  Sure, well, you know, a lot of-- What's funny, for us, this isn't a cult or anything.  We all grew up, you know, in a small town, without a lot of resources.  So if you wanted something, you couldn't go to the university.  You could barely go to the library to get a book on it.  So you just kind of figured it out yourself, and experimented, and whatnot. 

 So, you know, through some roundabout way, we were leaked a little bit of information about what punk was.  You weren't aware that there were bands, like wearing eyeballs, and performing, or the punk scene? No.  That's so interesting.  My friend Andy somehow got introduced to that whole zine culture.  And we started a little zine, because at the time, we were into freestyle biking and riding ramps, and that kind of stuff.  We got access to a photocopier at Joe's dad's law office.  We starting making this thing.  So we kind of got that, but we never really knew.  Honestly, we didn't know what punk was really about until, like, probably high school.  We had a buddy who ran away from home and came back with Dead Kennedys tapes and Sex Pistol stuff.  Wow, the guy who ru away and comes back with good music.  Thank God for him, right? What was it like for the small town, for the other kids who weren't in a band? You weren't in a band.  What was it like? Was this like a break from reality? Was it a place to go party? Was it just a place to get the heck away from small town Wisconsin? What was it like hanging out with these guys? It was more like just getting away from the usual mundane life, and you know, getting in contact with people you could relate to, and just, you know, a culture where you could be yourself a little bit more, rather than what everybody else wants you to be like.  I assume you guys were the outsiders, right? You weren't the quarterback? You might have been.  Oh, right, well, I was a cheerleader.  ( laughter ) So this was for the outsiders there, as well, in the town.  And that's good.  Now, when you made the film, did you try to keep that ethos, that kind of punk aesthetic? Did you want to make it in the same way? Absolutely.  That was just our whole goal of making the film, is you know, we started out, we didn't even know what we were doing, making this film.  So we were just kind of keeping up the same.  Right. 

 Same way as making the band.  We have been into filmmaking since we were kids.  And we always looked at it like, well, you can make movies when you have a rich uncle, or you get a bunch of money, or you happen to know somebody at a studio.  But it's something we're never going to do.  And then, you know, ironically, we had you know, done all of this, everything we needed to do to become filmmakers, we'd already done with a band years ago.  I'd read a book that talked about the business end of it, and suddenly realized that you don't have to, especially in this day and age, with the technology we have, you don't need to know somebody or be in, to make a movie.  So we thought, well, let's see what we've got.  Matt had this bag of tapes.  He's like, we should just try cutting this as a documentary as an exercise.  A great idea.  There's a lot of people with bags of tapes out there that don't realize they can do it.  Let's see another clip.  This one is my favorite clip.  This is of Foggy Mountain Breakdown's first performance.  So let's roll that clip.  The actual performance is really a blur.  Ladies and gentlemen, Foggy Mountain Breakdown! ( cheers and screams ) It was kind of funny, because 99% of the crowd was basically like-- What is going on? What is the meaning of this, you know.  Dumbfounded.  I mean, we could hardly see them, because the lights, you can't really see much more than the front row.  So that was most of the audience.  Except for like five people in the front row, who were, you know, people we knew, who literally got up and screamed during the beginning of our set, halfway through it, and then at the end. 

 Something even went wrong.  It seems like maybe they thought we were done, or they had had enough of us, and the curtain closed before the end of our set.  ( cheering ) But we managed to convince them to open it back up.  That was a great clip from Foggy Mountain Breakdown, your first performance.  Where did the name come from? Did you name the band? You know, it actually came from us arguing about a name.  Everybody had a really strong feeling about what they wanted to call it.  Sure, that's a big thing for a punk band.  We couldn't agree.  So then, Andy, the bassist just started calling it.  He really hated the names.  So whenever we'd go somewhere, we'd talk about the band, and somebody would ask what it was, he would just tell them it was Foggy Mountain Breakdown, mainly as a joke, because we were listening to these Steve Martin records, and he's playing banjo music.  And so, it was like the least cool name possible.  But he started using it.  And people started coming to us, oh, yeah, you guys are Foggy Mountain Breakdown.  So that's what happened.  Isn't Foggy Mountain a place? Well, that's what we ended up calling the place where this kind of all went down.  The headquarters, right? Right.  What was it like up there? There are clips from it, but it seems to have a bit of bigness to it.  What was that place like up there? It was like its own world.  It's too bad we didn't have any clips that survived over the years.  It was a place out in the middle of nowhere, like an old farmhouse. 

 A friend of ours, Joe, lived there.  His parents were very accommodating to let us come over, let the band play.  And yeah, the band had their way and we had our way.  It seemed like a lot of people.  From what I get, it was definitely a party pad.  It was weird, you know, because it started out with just a couple of us.  Then, as the band kind of was playing out, people would hear more about it, and people would just kind of drift in.  But there wasn't any formal recruiting or anything going on.  It was a place you could go and basically, you know, Joe's parents encouraged art.  So essentially, anything goes, as long as nobody gets hurt bad enough that we can't remedy them on site.  Other than that, that was kind of the scene.  As long as you can remedy it on site, it's okay.  That's good.  I'll remember that for my kids.  I lived for years in squats.  I lived in Amsterdam and in Prague as a squatter.  I was part of an anarchist movement.  I was very active in that, and definitely very active in the punk scene there.  There was always this thing in the back of my mind, that I knew that this was a fleeting moment.  It was not a sustainable lifestyle.  I think there's a clip coming up where you're sleeping on a tire. 

 I remember doing that, and drinking too much, and just like, loud music and fights.  It wasn't healthy.  And it was great.  But it wasn't sustainable.  Did you guys always think and know in the back of your mind that this is it.  This is going to end.  This can't last.  Or did people think we can make this work.  I don't even think we thought far enough ahead to imagine anything lasting.  We were so in the moment.  You'd think about the next day, for us, like planning a gig a week out ahead of time was as far forward as any of us were really concerned with.  I think the biggest thing that we get, and this kind of goes back to the whole DIY thing, is basically like working with what you have.  So we didn't care what happened.  Whatever was handed us, we'd just take that on next.  Well, the band of course, did end.  And to me, you guys went out with a blaze of glory.  Tell me a little bit about the Good Friday show.  We're going to see a clip from the show.  Tell me a little bit about the Good Friday show.  Sure, well, like I said before, we were taking the band very seriously.  And looking back, it's really too bad, because it kind of spoiled it. 

 But at the point that this show came up, we weren't really sure what we were going to do next.  We were playing parties, and doing things like that, and putting on our own shows.  But we had kind of hit the ceiling, you know? And then, in the mean time, there had been a bit of a punk movement brewing in the bigger areas around there.  And somehow we ended up, through some connection, one of the bigger regional bands wanted to be part of some show out in the middle of nowhere, which was our expertise.  So they asked us to be involved.  Really, I think they just called us because we had a PA.  That's good enough.  Right, so then we thought we had to do it.  We had no time to get ready.  Because we were so serious, we needed time to practice.  Right.  And since we knew we couldn't do it like perfect, we thought, let's just make a joke out of it, basically.  There were some deer involved.  Right.  Well, we're all still kind of fuzzy on exactly how this happened.  I mean, the band lineup, before this, Andy was lead singer and playing bass.  But we started playing with this guy, Jace, who you've seen.  And we just were practicing in the garage.  He kind of introduced us to stuff like the Butthole Surfers and the more kind of abstract things.  And so we were playing with him.  I don't know if Andy didn't want to do the show or something, but basically, one way or another, Andy chose just to play and Jace was going to sing. 

 So, this rib cage, I don't remember.  They picked it up someplace.  It was in the garage where we were practicing.  And one time, Jace just puts it on like a hat and keeps singing.  He thought it was cool.  It was an actual-- Yeah, it was.  A real deer carcass.  They found a couple.  This is the kind of thing.  Like, Foggy Mountain was-- It doesn't get more punk than that.  It doesn't get more punk than wearing a deer carcass.  Let's check out a clip from the Good Friday show from Foggy Mountain Breakdown.  We did a show that was unlike any show that had been done around this area at that time for a few different reasons.  And Jace definitely being the number one reason.  * He was unbelievable that night.  And Jason, as always, kicked ass on stage.  He had a real persona.  And that night, he had his black turtle neck sweater pulled up over, you know, over his nose and mouth.  He looked like a knight, was all I really kind of remember.  And you know, just the way he moved around, it was great.  I think those two things were the biggest things that made the show what it was. 

 It's kind of weird that when you're in a band, and then you actually have people come out, you're in a band and like want all your friends to think that you're cool and good, and stuff.  And then you actually have people come out to watch you for the first time.  At the time, it was a pretty big show.  I don't remember counting heads or anything.  But for, you know, when there's people at a concert that you don't recognize, with their eyes on your band, you'd think that you should want to entertain them and really put everything you've got into it.  But for me, I chose to use that opportunity to sit down on the stage and sing lyrics that weren't in English, that I didn't even know.  So we broke some TVs, so we had to sweep up some glass that people might have been upset about it.  They can (no audio), you know.  Fine, we gave them something to talk about, man.  And anything you talk about in Janesville, you know, in that area, is awesome.  You're asking for it.  If you're in a punk rock band, to this day, I still believe if you're going to be upset by people hating you, then you're not playing punk rock, you know? Punk rock is music made to offend jocks.  And it's just as much about offending the 99. 9% of major society as it is pleasing the . 1% that actually likes the music that you play.  But this really, you know, talking to people afterwards, it really alienated a lot of people who were our "fans. " But it had to be done.  It had to be done.  Matthew, when these other guys saw the documentary, what did they think of it? I was surprised, they loved it.  I didn't have any loftier goals putting it together than for the old guys to get a tape of it, watch it, and say, hey, yeah, I remember those days.  When it came together, everybody said they enjoyed it. 

 Where are these guys now? So you're here, making films.  But what are these guys all up to? Well, Tone is a programmer at an insurance company.  Joe is actually a chef here in Madison, well known, actually.  Let's see, Derrick is the one who continued on with music.  And so, from our band, he spun a couple off, and eventually became this band, 2211.  They've done a couple things.  They've done some MTV stuff.  They're also playing around.  What's cool about this project, is it actually reconnected us with Derrick.  We didn't even expect we'd be able to get a hold of him.  And since then, we've been working collaboratively with him to do some scores for other projects.  That's great.  Yeah, it's cool.  Jace did another band, and then I'm not sure what he's up to at the moment.  But he's had a bunch of interesting careers in the meantime.  I can bet.  Andy is still around.  I see him once and a while.  Is this a glory days film? Is this what it's about? I'm not trying to make fun of it when I ask that question.  At one point, you were talking about making fun of the jocks.  The critique of that always is, that guy scored a touchdown, but now he's sitting in the bar just saying, hey, remember when. 

 Is that what this is for these guys? What's shocking is that, so we made this film, and like Matt said, we basically started out doing it as an exercise to learn the tools.  And since then, it's kind of gone out and kind of taken on a life of its own.  We've actually run into a lot of the guys who, you know, maybe were indirectly critiqued by the film, and they loved it too.  Interesting.  What's totally been stunning to us, is you make a film and you kind of think, you know what, here's our audience.  Or this is who it's going to appeal to, initially, at least.  And we were completely wrong about that with this film.  It's good to know, though.  So what are you guys working on next? What's your next project? We're working on another feature length documentary.  It's based in the Madison area.  It's more of the motorcycling culture.  A local group of motorcyclists and a local event that, well they don't really host anymore, but it's explained in the film how they came up with this.  No title yet, you guys are still working on it, right? Right.  But you brought a clip for us.  Let's check out a clip from their film that's going to come out later.  Bruce had this vision of mimicking-- Not mimicking, doing something like the Europeans and the English were doing with their, you know, café races, where they'd show up at one café, and there'd be a big group there.  They'd have a cup of coffee, or whatever it is they had.  And then they would hop on their bikes and race on down the road to the next café.  He had this idea of sort of culturally identifying with that, and creating this local Madison version of a café race.  And the idea was to try to have a ride that would appeal to the offbeat, the different.  The idea was people would bring their old restored bikes out, and so forth. 

 We had about 35 motorcycles show up the first time in Pine Bluff.  We couldn't believe it.  It was fantastic.  It was a long line of motorcycles.  In those days, you didn't see long lines of motorcycles that much.  And of course, what it's become now is just, you know, madness.  I mean, there's a thousand motorcycles.  Thanks and welcome back.  I see that clip and I think to myself, there's a lot of great stories out there.  From your talking about a punk band, to these guys forming a motorcycle club.  What attracts you to those kind of stories? People aren't really telling that story very much.  Well, I think it all ties in with Breakdown, the original band, just that do it yourself attitude, you know, just starting something.  Making something out of nothing.  That's just kind of been our motto from day one.  And it's just something that appeals to us.  And we're finding it appeals to other people.  We just want to bring the stories out.  You guys are taking it up a level.  You're starting a company, as well, right, called Second Society? Tell me a little bit about your film company.  Well, the film company is basically myself and Jason.  It just kind of stems from, you know, just kind of the culture that we had way back when. 

 And you know, just doing things creatively, you know, bringing ideas together.  And a lot of these things, whether it's film or music, or really any creative endeavor, there's a lot of people who-- Everybody has good ideas, and there's a lot of things that seem like barriers, or maybe they're just used as crutches.  For what we're finding out the hard way, is that the only real thing that prevents you from doing these things is your desire.  As an organization of what we can do, is just enlighten people to the fact that, you know, you want to make a movie, then pick up a camera and start shooting a movie.  Or you want to start a band and you don't know how to play.  Well, go to Goodwill and buy a $5 guitar and figure it out.  The beauty of this approach is that you don't just learn one little segment, like you don't learn cinematography.  You don't learn the bass.  It's like you learn how to solder.  That's funny.  I can't remember who said it, Thomas Edison, invention is 99% perspiration, 1% inspiration.  And people forget that 99% of hard work.  That can be the fun part of it.  The thing is, being successful, and being more successful than say your contemporaries, at least to me, is being able to fail faster.  That's a better quote.  That's really the difference.  The only way you can not succeed is to give up.  And it sounds corny.  It might seem even naive, but that's really what got us as far as we have so far.  Had we went to the studio, or even a TV station, and said, we want to make this thing, can you give us some resources, they would've said no.  But instead, we just pretend like that doesn't exist. 

 We grab a bag of tapes and just start hacking at it.  Thank you very much, both of you, Matthew, Jason, for joining us.  It's very inspiring.  People should get out there and go to Goodwill and buy a bass.  Go buy a camera and go do it.  Absolutely.  Thank all you for watching Director's Cut.  For more information on today's film, or any of the films featured on our show, please go to: wpt. org/directorscut While you're there, send us an email.  We'd love to hear from you.  I'm your host, Charles Monroe-Kane.  And for everyone here at Director's Cut, thank you for joining us.  Check the gate. ECHO is on.