9DCU0102HD_Directors_Cut_Studio_Transcript
 
I could truthfully say, "Yes, I have a younger sister," and completely sidestep any qualifications.  Because even if they asked me how old she was people would just assume she was still in school back home.  But the truth is my sister never went to school private or otherwise.  She also never crawled, walked, laughed, spoke or really did anything except eat, sleep, cry Hi, I'm Charles Monroe-Kane.  And this is Director's Cut, a program dedicated to independent Wisconsin films and filmmakers.  The clip you just saw was from the short film, "I Have A Sister. " It was directed by our guest today, Amrys Williams.  Amrys, thank you very much for being here and sharing a very personal film with us.  How old were you when Vali was born? I was two years old.  Do you remember anything about the day she came home from the hospital, any of that kind of initial stuff, or were you too young for that? I was pretty much too young to really have firm memories about all of that stuff going on.  My memories of that time are mostly from family photo albums and photographs.  It's interesting that you bring that up now.  I mean, the film, as we saw in the opening clip, and we'll see more, is not home movies.  But it's home photographs.  And they're very, very powerful.  I was thinking a lot about childhood memories, and I don't remember the Grand Canyon visit that I went on, but I do remember the photographs.  It seems like you've re-created that, as well, with this film.  Is that what you were trying to do? Well, it's one of the things I was trying to achieve with the photographs.  That was one of the reasons that I wanted to have these still photographs as a part of something that sort of bookended the film, just because so much of my memories of that period of my life are, because I was so young, you know, the stories that my family tells around them.  And my memories of that time are very much related to those photographs, and sort of the ritual of going through with my parents, and looking at those photographs and telling stories about that time.  Very intimate for the viewer, as well. 

 We are watching, you know, sitting around a Christmas with my grandmother and going through the old photographs.  That's a very intimate thing.  I think you achieved intimacy with doing that.  Do you remember, or not "remember," but tell me about the day that Vali got her shots.  I'm sure that's part of the story of your film.  What happened that day? Well, like I said, it's not something I personally remember myself.  But there is one photograph which appears in the film, which is one of those sort of storied photographs that we tell these stories around.  It was in, I think it would have to have been in November of 1982.  As Vali went in for her first DPT shots.  So she was two months old? No, maybe it was February.  She was two months old.  I don't remember exactly the dates when all this happened.  But she was two months old, and she went in for the normal regimen of vaccinations that one gets when one is an infant.  And she slept for three days after receiving the shot, ran a fever.  My parents were very concerned.  But the pediatrician said that, you know, there wasn't really anything to be particularly concerned about.  And when she went in for her second inoculation, despite my parents' concerns, they said there was nothing to worry about and administered the shot.  And it was really after that moment that, at that point, that my parents really started to observe changes in her behavior.  She was really inconsolable, screaming all of the time.  A parents' nightmare when you go to get the shots.  I want to show another clip from the film. 

 This clip we want to show, I want you to set it up for us, for the viewer.  Well, this clip comes from, when I was shooting the movie, my parents were visiting me for Thanksgiving.  So the clip you're about to see is just sort of a discussion we were having.  A lot of this film was really sort of a collaborative project between me and my parents.  Because I relied on them so much for providing, not only the photographs, but also a lot of the information from that time period.  I was so young, I don't remember a lot of it.  And so, this is just sort of a clip of the discussion that sort of came up as we were all talking around the table, having drinks.  Let's roll the clip.  The doctors who apply the science that they've been taught are innocent of what do I want to say, culpable sin.  They're just not responsible.  They're doing what they think is right.  No, they are doing what they believe is-- They are doing what drug companies have told them to do and what CDC has told them to do.  And I believe that physicians need to stop listening to what drug companies are saying.  However you describe it.  However you may describe it I don't think that they think Wow, you know, when I watch that clip, I hear your mother's anger.  And it's like, the emotions that your family must have gone through dealing with this.  They take their daughter to get shots and there's brain damage.  Permanent brain damage, correct? And the anger, and guilt and all the feelings.  What do you remember in your household, being the emotional kind of feeling that you ran through with that? Well, the funny thing about all of this is that my memory of that time is, you know, isn't fraught.  I don't remember the home being an unhappy place, or anything like that.  Of course, when my parents talk about that time, you know, it's all about how they never got any sleep, and it was sort of trying to split the duties of childcare and taking care of a two-year-old along with an infant who was inconsolable. 

 And really trying to balance all of that.  I mean, it was incredibly difficult for them.  You know, you never sleep when you have an infant to begin with, having an infant who's having seizures all the time is, you know, much harder to handle.  But you know, my memories are just as rosy as the rest of my childhood.  So it's sort of a strae thing for me, because I don't think of it as a particularly difficult period.  I think, because as a two-year-old, I was somewhat oblivious to all the things that were sort of going on.  I didn't really know that what was happening wasn't what normally happens in families.  What was going on? What were your parents experiencing with Vali? What was their regimen with her like in the day? Well, you know, my dad was working, and my mom was home with me and with Vali at that time.  And fortunately, my dad always talks about how he had a very understanding boss and was able to leave work whenever he needed to, to come home and sort of relieve my mother, who, you know, because we didn't have outside care.  You know, my mother was home with us.  And because Vali would scream at night, it was very difficult to get her to sleep, obviously.  So my parents were sort of switching off.  It was kind of like working a night shift at home and working the day shift during the day at work.  I think a lot of what was going on is, you know, for my parents, they didn't really have a whole lot of time to spend with one another.  You know, it was very stressful in the family, certainly, how things were.  That's something that they always bring up, is you know, it was very difficult to try and hold the family together in the midst of all of this that was sort of thrown at us unexpectedly.  And of course, a decision was made at some point, which I think our next clip shows very well.  It doesn't need a set up, so let's roll the next clip.  Everything was okay until the day your mother was upstairs sleeping.  Vali was in on the couch resting.  And I was making dinner for both you and her, and myself. 

 And I had my back turned to you, and you asked me something.  I answered it, and you started shrieking.  And what you said was, "Stop shouting at me!" And then you got down in a crouch.  And all I can think of is you looked like the Wicked Witch of the West in a crouch, you know, as she's talking to Dorothy in the most miserable fashion.  And you said, "You're always shouting at me!" And I went right down on my knees to the floor in front of you.  And I held you.  And I said, "Honey, I didn't know.  I thought I just answered you. " "You shouted at me! You're always shouting!" That was the incident that told me That was a clip from Amrys Williams' film, "I Have A Sister. " God, yeah.  I'm a father and I watch that clip of your father, and it just chokes me up.  That's a very intense experience of choosing what he had to choose.  Do you remember the day Vali was put in a home? How old were you? I was four, I believe.  I do actually remember the day that my parents told me that Vali was going to be living out of the house, in a facility where she could have 24-hour care, which is something that we just really couldn't provide at home.  And I remember being in the kitchen, standing by the stove, and my parents being in the kitchen, and sort of telling me what was going to happen.  I know in conversations I've had with them in subsequent years, that you know, this was something that they were so nervous about.  And how to tell their other daughter that her sister wasn't going to be living at home anymore.  And you know, would I think that this was something that could happen to me.  Would they send me away? There were all sorts of anxieties, I think, for them, in how to, once they had made this decision.  I think they really thought this was what we could do to keep the family whole.  You know, how to communicate that to a four-year-old. 

 Do they really have full grasp of all of the intricacies of what was going on? So I do remember the day that happened.  You know, talking in the kitchen and on the back porch about what was going to happen.  You know, yes, we would be able to visit Vali all the time.  We could see her.  We could bring her home when we wanted.  Yeah.  So it must have been at some point in your life, maybe as a teenager or younger, maybe even recently.  It must have dawned on you, really dawned on you, that the reason they did this was for you, not for them.  I mean, partly, probably for their workload, but they did it for you.  Pardon the question, but how does one grapple with that? Or maybe that's why the film was made.  Yeah, I think in some ways it probably is one of the reasons that I made this film.  I mean, I think the process of making the film actually has sort of helped, not only me, but also my parents, sort of sort out what happened.  It's something that we don't talk about every day when we call each other on the phone and go over, you know, what's going on in our lives.  This isn't something that we talk about all the time.  Yeah, I think it's sort of given me, it's certainly given my family, my immediate family, we're very close and tight-knit as a result of this.  You know, it's something that happens when something tragic happens to a family.  There's sort of this, you know, closing in, and trying to sort of come together and take care of one another.  I mean, I'm sure there are all sorts of feelings of guilt and worry.  I'm only now starting to begin to imagine, sort of as you guessed, what this must have been like for my parents.  As I grow up, and as I think about having my own family.  We all sort of empathize with our parents as we grow up, don't we? Right. 

 And so, you know, when we revisit this story, and the times that we do, especially through the process of making this film, coming to really realize what they went through.  It's been an incredibly moving experience for me.  One word that didn't come up was resentment.  Do you resent? Is there any point when you're honest, that you resent having this? I felt a little bit in the intro, almost, just a little bit of resentment, maybe as a teenager, but do you resent having this as part of your history? Do you just wish that this didn't happen? Of course, there's a part of me that wishes this didn't happen.  You know, I would love to have siblings.  And I hope that when I have children, I will be able to have more than one child, so that my children can have the experience of having a sibling who is responsive, and with whom they can have a relationship that is more than just one that is sort of, you know, there because it's there.  I mean, I loved my sister, but our relationship was not a normal sibling relationship.  I don't think that I feel much resentment.  I don't think that I would put it that way at all.  I think that, you know, in terms of the effect that it's had on my family, I feel that I have such a wonderful relationship with my parents, and that our immediate family has become so strong because of this, that, you know, there are aspects to it, while I would trade them all for, you know, having Vali back and whole, to have had that experience.  You know, what we have sort of gained from it, by being able to get through all of this, is something that I feel is truly, truly precious.  And so in that sense, yeah.  Let's see another clip from your film.  I think one of the things that was kind of surprising to people when Vali died was how much of a celebration her funeral was.  And that was by design.  My mom was, "No one can wear black! I don't people wearing black to the funeral.  I want people to wear bright colors. " Of course, the morticians or whatever made her look absolutely ridiculous.  You know, I have two little kids.  I have a son who's three.  And I have a daughter who's one. 

 And I remember the day we took her to get these shots.  And I think for a lot of people in my group, my friendship network, we're leery of the shots.  Shots, you know, "shots. " We're leery of them.  But daycare, and other issues, we do it.  We're not as educated as we should be, but we do it, and we're aware of the risks.  It's interesting to me, because your film really touched a nerve for me.  Like, I'm really-- It's funny, I watched the film on a Saturday.  And my daughter who turned one, you get the last kind of round.  And I was like, I can not watch this film until she gets her shots first.  But then I thought, "Oh, my gosh, why am I having her get the shots?" Your film really touches a nerve in people.  Have you had a lot of really strong reactions from people seeing it? Because I'll say one thing, my wife could not watch the film.  Well, I have had people ask me, sort of, you know, my position on these things, and if I'm trying to make a particular political statement, and those sort of things.  I mean, especially, you know, there are things in the news every so often that sort of bring up this issue again.  It's an age-old issue of public health.  You know, the risk to the individual versus the risk to the community.  That's something that, there's always that tension.  I think that's a tension that's there in the film, but it's not really, you know, on the surface.  What I'm more interested in dealing with in the film, is just sort of illustrating what is behind that one individual who, you know, I guess is not really sacrificed, but you know, who suffers for the sake of the community.  I think that, you know, my interest was more sort of eliciting the story that, you know, you don't see when you look at the statistics.  The one in a million chance. 

 This is the one.  But there's still a question that begs to be asked.  And maybe I'm making it more personal.  You talked about when you have children, you want your children to have siblings.  Do you want your children to have shots? Are your children going to get shots? I think they'll probabl have to.  You know, it's a question I ask myself from time to time, obviously.  I'm sure you do.  I think about these things from time to time.  I do think about, you know, the family I would like to have in the future.  I don't think it's a question that I'll really be able to answer in full until that moment comes.  You know, I'm not a parent.  And I feel like, you know, maybe.  It's hard to say what I will, or how I will feel when I am one.  What about mom and dad, future grandma and grandpa? Do they want their grandchildren to have shots? Well, I don't think that my family is on any sort of crusade to do away with vaccinations at all.  I think that, you know, one of the things that sort of as a result of Vali's situation that I grew up with, was just sort of an attitude toward questioning some of the things that many people sort of take for granted when listening to their doctors.  And so, I think that one of the lessons that I've taken away from it is just to become educated about the risks of things.  And then, you know, you make decisions, you take the risks.  You know, you have to do that every so often.  And as I've grown up and become responsible for my own medical care, I've had to make these kinds of decisions for myself about sort of optional, you know, vaccines, like the flu shot, and things like that.  I don't get flu shots, because I figure the marginal benefit versus the risk on that is probably not, you know, to me, it's not really worth it.  But maybe I'll feel differently when I'm 85. 

 So I think that, yeah, it's a difficult question to really pin down an answer to.  And one that remains open ended, I think, for me, and for my parents in a lot of ways.  I would like to show viewers yet another clip from the film.  This is one of my favorite ones.  I think it really shows the love of a mother.  Let's roll that clip.  Having Vali certainly emphasized the blessings that we did have.  And it certainly put all of our focus on nurturing you.  And it was probably a gift, too.  So thank you, Amrys, for being in our life.  Moms.  Don't you love moms? I do.  What would the world be without moms? That's so beautiful.  That is so beautiful.  You know, it's funny, you're studying to be an historian at the university, right? Yes.  You just made a documentary, which an historic document.  But it's so personal.  Can the personal be objective? Or is objectivity even a goal for historians? Should that even be the goal? Well, the objectivity question is certainly something that, you know, has come under all kind of academic debate.  I think most historians these days feel that, you know, objectivity is something one can never truly obtain.  We're all people who are situated in our own, you know, we have our own opinions themselves.  And we come to things with our own preconceptions. 

 And I think that one of the reasons that I think this film works, and that really made me interested in making a film about the subject which, you know, I do sort of have an academic and intellectual interest in, you know, studying history of science and medicine.  You know, public health controversies are intellectually interesting to me.  But because of my personal connection with the subject, it would be very difficult in a way to write a more objective style.  Looking at the documents, a seminar paper kind of treatment of such a subject, about you know, controversies over pertussis vaccination, or something of that nature.  And so the opportunity to make a documentary film about something personal, and really feel like I have the freedom to put myself into the piece, and really tell that story from a very personal and emotional and very honestly emotional, openly emotional, in such a fashion, was really kind of liberating in a way.  And I think that, you know, there's a power to arguments that are marshalled through documents, and reason, and argumentation.  And those things certainly have a power which I believe in.  But there is another kind of power that comes from the personal and the emotional, I think.  And this is something, the process of making the film, has really made me realize.  So the power of saying this is my story, is a very different kind of message.  But it can be equally effective.  So that's something that I've learned a lot about through this process, the different kinds of stories that we can tell.  You know, from the feminist movement to the civil rights movement, there's a mantra running through it for many people, which is that the personal is political, and that no matter what happens, and you were saying the film doesn't have an agenda.  The personal story, because people are touched by it, becomes political.  So this is a political film.  People can use this film to look at it in a political way.  How would you like people to use this film? Are you asking a question with this film? Are you answering something? Or is it just, hey, this is a slice of my life.  Deal with it and do whatever you want with it.  Or do you have something else you'd like to see happen around that? I think the film probably asks more questions than it answers in a certain way.  A good job in a story.  I think that, you know, obviously there's a part of it that's just about the opportunity to really articulate a story, an opportunity both for me and for my parents, for us to really tell a story that I think we spent a long time thinking about, but just haven't really had the medium, or the moment. 

 Or, you know, the sort of opportunity came along, and we were able to tell this story in a way that really helped my family really think about it.  And it's been an incredible experience, I think, for the three of us to really go through this process of how do we put together a story.  What does this mean to us, and really figuring that out in a conscious way.  You know, I had experiences when I was interviewing both of my parents, where they would have these sort of revelatory moments, and realize something about their thoughts, about the experience that had never occurred to them before.  So there is certainly that, I just want to tell a story aspect to it.  But I think that in terms of what I hope people take away from this film, you know, I think that what I hope people take away is that there are always people-- There are always stories behind the clinical, and behind, you know, a sort of more scientific or legal story of what's going on.  And that it's important to think about those people who are often in the background.  And I think that the power of film is really being able to bring those stories to light in a way that, you know-- Maybe not so much with social history and more recent forms of movements within the historical discipline, but that, you know, the documents that you think of when I'm going to write a paper about public health, you know, you might be looking at medical documents, or things like that.  They hide as much as they reveal in a lot of ways.  I have a professor whose advice is always, you know, when you look at a document, think about how it's telling you the truth and how it's lying to you.  Because it's always doing both.  I've gotten a little off-topic.  That's fine.  I just want to thank you very much.  You made a film that absolutely will make me think about shots and the medical establishment differently.  Thank you very much for sharing your film with us.  That's our show for today.  If you want more information about Amrys' film, "I Have A Sister," please go to our Web site at: wpt. org/directorscut.  I'm Charles Monroe-Kane.  And until next time, this is Director's Cut. 

 Check the gate. ECHO is on.