SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, BUT
YOU'RE NOT HERE PERMANENTLY.
YOU CAN'T LEAVE THE U.S..
YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO PUBLIC
BENEFITS.
YOU ARE HERE TEMPORARILY AND
MAYBE IT'S FOR YEARS WAITING TO
ACCESS THE ASYLUM SYSTEM, BUT
THE WORK PERMIT DOES ALLOW
PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN SOCIETY
AND SUPPORT THEMSELVES.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
THIS IS ULTIMATELY A
PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION WE HAVE
TO GRAPPLE WITH.
ARE WE WILLING TO FUND PLACES
THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE SEEING
BUDGETS REALLY STRUGGLING TO
MAKE ENDS MEET GIVEN THE
REDUCTION IN STUDENTS AT THE
COST OF POTENTIALLY SOME OF
THOSE STUDENTS ARE GOING TO
STRUGGLE WITH OR BE UNABLE TO
COMPLETE A COLLEGE DEGREE, IF
THAT LOCATION IS CLOSED.
>> SO A RECENT PAPER FROM THE
FEDERAL RESEARCH DISCUSSED HOW
EMPLOYMENT AND MANUFACTURING AND
THE AGRICULTURE SECTORS HAS
DECREASED IN WISCONSIN OVER THE
PAST 10
YEARS.
>> YEAH.
IT IS AN ENORMOUS CHALLENGE.
IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
WE SEE THIS THIS A LOT OF PLACES
ACROSS THE CROSS COUNTRY.
AB ENORMOUS
>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A
PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> YOU'RE WATCHING "HERE AND
NOW" 2024 ELECTION COVERAGE.
EXPERT RECOMMENDATIONS FOR STATE
VOTING MAPS ARE IN.
AND THE WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT
WILL HAVE THE FINAL WORD ON
WHICH MAPS BECOME LAW.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," A
CLOSER LOOK AT THE DISTRICT
LINES TO BE VOTED ON BY THE
SUPREME COURT.
THEN, HOW A SMALL COMMUNITY IS
ADAPTING TO A SUDDEN INFLUX OF
MIGRANTS, AND THE REALITY OF
POLICIES AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER.
AND FINALLY, ANALYSIS ON THE
LONG-TERM IMPACTS OF WANING
ACCESS TO RURAL HIGHER
EDUCATION.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR FEBRUARY
2.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.
>> WISCONSIN IS ON COURSE TO
HAVE NEW VOTING MAPS IN SHORT
ORDER.
LATE THIS WEEK, CONSULTANTS
HIRED BY THE STATE SUPREME COURT
REJECTED TWO OF THE MAP
SUBMISSIONS AS BEING PARTISAN
GERRYMANDERS AND SAID THE REST
COULDN'T MEET MUSTER WITH THE
HIGH COURT.
FOR DETAILS ON THIS, WE TURN TO
ZAC SCHULTZ AT THE CAPITOL.
SO WHICH TWO MAPS REPRESENT
PARTISAN GERRYMANDER, ACCORDING
TO THESE CONSULTANTS?
>> THE FEST ONE SHOULDN'T COME
AS ANY SURPRISE AND THAT IS THE
REPUBLICAN MAP, THE REPUBLICAN
LEGISLATORS' MAP, WHICH IS THE
MOST CLOSELY RELATED TO THE
CURRENT MAPS THAT ARE IN PLACE
THAT THE SUPREME COURT ALREADY
SAID WERE GERRYMANDERED.
THE OTHER MAPS ARE FROM WHAT'S
CALLED THE JOHNSON INTERVENORS,
WHICH ARE MAPS DRAWN BY THE
WISCONSIN INSTITUTE FOR LAW AND
LIBERTY, OR W.I.L., A
CONSERVATIVE LAW FIRM.
THEE HEDGED THEIR BEATS BETWEEN
SOME OF THE MAPS DRAWN BY THE
MORE LIBERAL OR DEMOCRATIC
GROUPS IN THIS CASE AND THEIR
LEGISLATORS' MAPS, BUT STILL
PRETTY MUCH MADE FOR A SLAM DUNK
MAJORITY FOR THEIR MAPS IF
ADOPTED.
>> IT'S SOMETHING CONSULTANTS
CALLED STEALTH GERRYMANDERING, I
THINK, IN THEIR REPORT?
>> YEAH.
AND THAT'S BECAUSE THE W.I.L.
MAPS MET ALL OF THE CRITERIA
THAT ARE DETERMINED BY THE STATE
CONSTITUTION.
THEY'RE CONTIGUOUS, THEY KEPT
MOST OF THE MUNICIPAL
COMMUNITIES OF INTEREST
TOGETHER, THE POPULATION, ALL
THOSE THINGS WERE THERE, BUT
THEY STILL WERE DRAWN IN A WAY
THAT WERE PRETTY MUCH GUARANTEED
REPUBLICAN MAJORITIES AND, IN
SOME CASES, SUPER MAJORITIES.
>> AND SO THE CONSULTANT'S VIEW
ON THIS IS NOT SETTING WELL WITH
REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS, SAYING
THEIR MAPS WERE REJECTED BECAUSE
THEY DIDN'T PRODUCE DEMOCRATIC
OUTCOMES THAT THIS COURT WANTS.
>> WELL, I THINK THEY'RE
SPEAKING TO THEIR AUDIENCE,
THEIR BASE, THEIR DONORS AND
POSSIBLY HOPING TO SPEAK TO THE
U.S. SUPREME COURT WHERE THEY'RE
HOPING THIS APPEAL WILL BE HEARD
AND THEN ONE OF THEIR TWO
PREFERRED MAPS WOULD ULTIMATELY
BE CHOSEN BY THE HIGH COURT IN
THE LAND.
BUT THE HONEST REALITY IS THAT
EVERY INDEPENDENT ANALYST, EVERY
EXPERT, MOST PEOPLE THAT
UNDERSTAND THIS ISSUE HAVE
LOOKED AT THESE MAPS FOR THE
LAST DECADES PLUS IS THEY FAVOR
REPUBLICANS.
BY HOW MUCH WAS ALWAYS THE
QUESTION.
WAS THE TWO-THIRDS SUPERMAJORITY
IN THE SENATE ENTIRELY A
GERRYMANDER?
PROBABLY NOT, WHAT THE EXPERTS
SAY IS THAT BUT A SOLID PORTION
OF THAT IS BECAUSE OF THE
GERRYMANDER THAT WAS DRAWN INTO
FAVOR REPUBLICANS IN DISTRICTS
THAT WERE GUARANTEED TO ELECT
THEM.
>> SO AS TO THE OTHER FOUR MAPS
FROM DEMOCRATS AND OTHERS, THE
EXPERTS DEEMED THEM NOT PARTISAN
GERRYMANDERS BUT IS NOT
NECESSARILY PERFECT, EITHER.
>> Reporter: THAT'S RIGHT.
THERE WERE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN
ALL FOUR MAPS.
THE EXPERTS, MOST OF THEIR
25-PAGE REVIEW WAS ACTUALLY
SCORING IN THEIR ANALYSIS OF ALL
THE DIFFERENT MAPS ACCORDING TO
A NUMBER OF RHETORIC RUBRICS,
MOSTLY LOOK AT PARTISAN
FAIRNESS, WHICH IS KIND OF THE
NEW STANDARD THAT THIS COURT HAS
INTRODUCED FOR THIS PROCESS TO
SAY IN A 50/50 TOP OF THE BALLOT
STATE, WHICH IS WHAT WISCONSIN
IS, WHAT WOULD BE THE MOST FAIR
OUTCOME AND HOW WOULD THAT BE
REPRESENTED BY HOW THE DISTRICTS
LOOKED AND THEY SAID THAT
ACCORDING TO SOME ANALYSIS OPTED
ONE, LOOKING AT ALL THE OLD
ELECTIONS FOR THE PAST SEVEN
YEARS, THIS MAP WAS BETTER, THAT
MAP WAS A LITTLE BETTER OVER
HERE, SO DIFFERENT SCORES FOR
DIFFERENT AREAS BUT OTHERWISE
ROUGHLY THE SAME, NONE OF THEM
STOOD OUT WELL AND ABOVE TO THE
OTHERS, SO THEY SAID THE SUPREME
COURT CAN PICK FROM THEM IF THEY
WANT.
>> SO THE CONSULTANTS ALSO
REJECTED REPUBLICAN CLAIMS THAT
MAJORITIES IN THE LEGISLATURE
ARE DUE TO DEMOCRATIC SUPPORT
BEING CONCENTRATED IN CITIES
WHILE THE G.O.P. HAS THIS
BROADER SUPPORT OUT-STATE.
THE CONSULTANT SATAN SAID GEOGRAPHY IS
NOT DESTINY.
UNPACK THIS FOR US.
>> THIS IS SOMETHING WE'VE HEARD
OVER AND OVER, AND WE'VE
REPORTED ON FOR YEARS.
THERE IS A GEOGRAPHIC BIAS FOR
REPUBLICANS IN WISCONSIN.
THE QUESTION IS, HOW MUCH.
IN A NEUTRAL, FAIR MAP, WE'VE
HAD EXPERTS FROM THE UW SAY THAT
REPUBLICANS WOULD WIN SOMEWHERE
BETWEEN 50 AND 55 SEATS IN AN
AVERAGE YEAR IF THE MAPS WERE
ALL DRAWN FAIRLY, AND IN THIS
CASE, THE EXPERT SAID THAT THAT
WAS SOMETHING THAT THEY SHOULD
BE LOOKING AT BUT YOU CAN MAKE
FAIR MAPS WITHOUT HAVING
EVERYTHING TILTED ONE WAY, SO IT
SHOULDN'T GIVE THE REPUBLICANS
66 SEATS IN THE IN THE ASSEMBLY, BUT
MAYBE 50, WHICH IS JOE BIDEN AS
IT HAPPENS IN THIS BODY.
>> SO WHAT HAPPENS NOW?
>> THERE IS ONE WEEK FOR THE
PLAINTIFFS TO FILE THEIR
RESPONSES TO THE EXPERTS.
THAT'S DUE NEXT THURSDAY.
AFTER THAT, THE COURT COULD ASK
THE EXPERTS TO DRAW OR ADJUST.
THE EXPERTS DID NOT SUBMIT THEIR
OWN VERSION SAYING THAT THE FOUR
MAPS THAT THEY PROPOSED THAT
WERE IN THERE WERE GOOD ENOUGH
BUT THEY CAN MAKE ADJUSTMENTS IF
THE COURT WANTS.
THE COURT COULD NARROW IT DOWN,
IT COULD MAKE A DECISION.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS AFTER
THAT.
>> THE CONSULTANTS SAID THEY
COULD TAKE A CRACK AT MAKING
THESE MAPS IN SHORT ORDER.
>> THAT'S RIGHT.
>> ALL RIGHT.
ZAC SCHULTZ, THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> THANKS, FRED.
>> IN OTHER NEWS, WHITEWATER
MADE NATIONAL HEADLINES LAST
MONTH AFTER A BREITBART NEWS
STORY CLAIMED A THOUSAND
MIGRANTS HAD BEEN DROPPED ON THE
CITY.
BUT OFFICIALS SAY THE TRUTH OF
THE MATTER IS MUCH MORE
COMPLICATED.
"HERE AND NOW" REPORTER, NATHAN
DENZIN, HAS MORE.
>> OUR CASE HERE IN WHITEWATER
IS VERY UNIQUE.
>> I STARTED NOTICING THE WAY
THE MIGRANTS PROBABLY -- IT WAS
DURING THE PANDEMIC.
>> WHITE IMMIGRANTS IMMIGRATE TO
PLACES IS BECAUSE AS HUMANS, WE
ARE LOOKING FOR A BETTER LIFE.
>> Reporter: WHITEWATER HAS
SEEN A WAVE OF MIGRATION FROM
THE SOUTHERN BORDER WITH MEXICO
OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS, BUT
THIS CASE IS NOT LIKE RECENT
HEADLINES WHERE IMMIGRANTS ARE
BEING CHARTERED TO NORTHERN
COMMUNITIES LIKE CHICAGO.
>> I'VE HAD A LOT OF PEOPLE ASK,
OKAY, WHERE ARE THE BUSES
DROPPING PEOPLE OFF.
THAT'S NOT HAPPENING HERE.
>> IT WAS LIKE 50 AT FIRST AND
THEN IT WAS LIKE ANOTHER 50 AND
SO IT WASN'T LIKE A MASSIVE
RUSH.
>> BUT NOW CITY OFFICIALS
SUSPECT THAT THERE ARE ABOUT 800
TO A THOUSAND MIGRANTS FROM
NICARAGUA AND VENEZUELA IN
WHITEWATER.
AND WHITEWATER IS NOT A LARGE
CITY.
THE 2020 CENSUS INDICATED THAT
ABOUT 15,000 PEOPLE LIVE THERE.
NEARLY 8 TO 10,000 OF THOSE ARE
STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY.
>> THE EARLIEST WE REALLY
NOTICED IT WAS, I WOULD SAY,
EARLY 2022.
>> Reporter: DAN MEYER IS THE
CHIEF OF POLICE FOR THE CITY OF
WHITEWATER.
>> WE HAD A FAMILY THAT WAS
FOUND IN A 10X10 SHED DURING THE
WINTERTIME, SO JANUARY OF 2022,
SO VERY COLD TEMPERATURES.
>> Reporter: HE SAYS THAT
BEFORE THEY GOT TO WISCONSIN,
MANY OF THE MIGRANTS LIKELY HAD
CONTACT WITH BORDER PATROL.
>> THE WAY THE BORDER POLICIES
WORK CURRENTLY IS THAT WHEN
SOMEONE CROSSES, CUSTOMS
IDENTIFIES THEM AND ASKS THEM IF
THERE IS A SPONSOR FAMILY THAT
CAN TAKE THEM IN.
SO IF SOMEBODY IS ABLE TO
IDENTIFY THAT SPONSOR FAMILY AND
THEY CAN CONFIRM THAT, THEY'RE
ESSENTIALLY PROVIDED
TRANSPORTATION TO THAT SPONSOR
FAMILY.
>> Reporter: WHEN THEY ENTER
THE U.S., THEY'RE TECHNICALLY IN
DEPORTATION PROCEEDINGS, BUT
WITH A SPONSOR FAMILY, THEY'RE
RELEASED UNTIL THEIR FIRST COURT
DATE.
THAT COURT DATE IS USUALLY
SEVERAL YEARS IN THE FUTURE DUE
TO A HUGE BACKLOG OF CASES.
THEY CAN THEN SPONSOR OTHER
FAMILIES THAT THEY KNOW.
THE RESULT IS A PYRAMID EFFECT
WHERE MANY FAMILIES FROM A SMALL
AREA IN CENTRAL AND SOUTH
AMERICA HAVE COME TO WHITEWATER.
>> BECAUSE THEY'RE TRYING TO GET
OUT OF REALLY UNSAFE SITUATIONS
AND THERE'S WORK TO BE HAD.
THERE'S SPICE FACTORIES, SOD
FARMS, CHICKEN FARMS.
>> Reporter: BRIENNE IS A
MEMBER OF THE WHITEWATER
COUNCIL.
NICARAGUA AND VENEZUELA ARE IN
VIOLENT UPHEAVAL, DRIVING THOSE
PEOPLE INTO AMERICA.
>> WHAT THEY WERE MOST CONCERNED
ABOUT IS IF THEY WALK DOWN THE
STREET, THEY HAD TO HAVE A STACK
OF CASH IN THEIR POCKETS BECAUSE
THEY WERE ALWAYS HAVING TO PAY
SOMEBODY OFF TO STAY SAFE.
>> Reporter: THEIR LEGAL LIMBO
MAKES LIFE EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.
>> AND MOST OF THEM ARE REALLY
CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT THAT
THEY'RE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK.
>> Reporter: BROWN HAS TALKED
TO MANY MIGRANTS WHO ARE NOT
ALLOWED TO WORK FOR THE FIRST
HUNDRED DAYS THAT THEY ARE IN
AMERICA.
>> THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO
ARE FOLLOWING THE RULES AND ONLY
ONE PERSON IS WORKING AND
EVERYBODY ELSE IS NOT.
>> WE ARE GOING TO WORK TO MAKE
MONEY AND TO HELP OUR FAMILIES.
>> JORGE IS AN IMMIGRANT
ADVOCATE AND A FIRST GENERATION
IMMIGRANT FROM MEXICO.
HE HAS LIVED IN WHITEWATER FOR
NEARLY 30 YEARS.
>> I LIKE TO PROMOTE EDUCATION.
I LIKE TO HELP OTHERS HELP SPEAK
ENGLISH.
>> Reporter: HE SAYS MIGRANTS
FACE NUMEROUS CHALLENGES WHEN
THEY GET TO WISCONSIN: GETTING A
JOB, SPEAKING THE LANGUAGE, AND
GETTING TRANSPORTATION IS ALL
TOP OF MIND.
>> I KNOW HOW IT FEELS TO BE IN
THIS COUNTRY AND NOT KNOWING THE
LANGUAGE.
IT IS HARD.
EVERY SINGLE HUMAN HAS A RIGHT
TO SUCCEED, WHATEVER YOU ARE,
YOU HAVE THAT RIGHT.
>> Reporter: BUT FINDING A JOB
IN RURAL WISCONSIN REQUIRES A
CAR, AND IN WISCONSIN,
UNDOCUMENTED MIGRANTS ARE NOT
ALLOWED TO EARN A DRIVER'S
LICENSE.
>> WE DON'T HAVE PUBLIC
TRANSPORTATION.
THE ONLY TRANSPORTATION THAT WE
HAVE IS THE TAXI, THE TAXI ONLY
IS AVAILABLE HERE IN WHITEWATER
FROM 7:30 IN THE MORNING UNTIL
5:00.
>> I SEE IT AS A HUGE SAFETY
ISSUE.
I MEAN, WE'RE -- IF WE'RE HAVING
PEOPLE ESPECIALLY DRIVING IN
SNOW FOR THE FIRST TIME, THAT IS
NOT A GOOD SITUATION.
>> IT'S SAFER FOR PEOPLE TO HAVE
DRIVER'S LICENSES.
THEY HAVE TO TAKE DRIVERS
CLASSES, THEY HAVE TO TAKE A
TEST TO MAKE SURE THEY CAN
DRIVE, THEY HAVE TO HAVE
INSURANCE.
>> I DROVE A TAXI FOR A LOT OF
YEARS, BUT TO BE HONEST WITH
YOU, I DIDN'T LEARN TO DRIVE
UNTIL I CAME TO THE UNITED
STATES.
I LEARNED WHAT THE YELLOW LINE
MEANS, I LEARNED WHAT THE WHITE
LINE MEANS, I KNOW WHAT THE
BROKEN LINE MEANS.
I LEARNED HOW I CAN PASS A CAR.
I DID NOT KNOW THAT IN MY
COUNTRY.
>> IF SOMEBODY IS ABLE TO COME
HERE AND TAKE ALL OF THE
TESTING, THE WRITTEN TEST,
PHYSICALLY DO THE DRIVING TEST
SO THAT THEY ARE SAFER AS A
DRIVER, I'M ALL FOR THAT.
>> NEARLY 20 STATES ALREADY
ALLOW UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANTS TO
ON TIN A DRIVER'S LICENSE,
INCLUDING ILLINOIS.
>> I THINK THAT IT'S SOMETHING
THAT THEY REALLY NEED TO LOOK
HARDER AT IN OUR LEGISLATURE, IS
JUST GIVING THOSE RIGHTS BACK SO
THAT EVERYBODY IS SAFER.
>> ALONG WITH DRIVER'S LICENSES,
CITY OFFICIALS SAY MORE NEEDS TO
BE DONE TO HELP WHITEWATER'S
NEWEST IMMIGRANT POPULATION.
>> I THINK WE HAVE TO LEARN HOW
TO HELP EACH OTHER.
I THINK WE HAVE TO LEARN THAT WE
ARE HUMANS, WE ARE IMMIGRANTS,
AND WE HAVE FEELINGS.
>> FOR "HERE AND NOW," I'M
NATHAN DENZIN IN WHITEWATER.
>> NEXT WEEK, A LOOK AT WHAT THE
COMMUNITY IS DOING TO HELP THEIR
NEW NEIGHBORS AND WHY CITY
OFFICIALS ARE ASKING THE STATE
AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FOR HELP.
THE MIGRANTS ARRIVING IN
WHITEWATER REPRESENT A TINY
FRACTION OF PEOPLE CROSSING THE
SOUTHERN BORDER INTO THE U.S..
IN DECEMBER ALONE, SOME 300,000
PEOPLE FROM CENTRAL AMERICA AND
ELSEWHERE REPORTEDLY DID SO.
2-1/2 MILLION PEOPLE IN 2023.
THE CRUSH OF PEOPLE CROSSING THE
BORDER IS DESCRIBED AS A
HUMANITARIAN CRISIS.
MEANWHILE, THREE MILLION PENDING
ASYLUM CASE BEFORE U.S.
IMMIGRATION COURTS MEANS
MIGRANTS GAINING ENTRY AT THE
BORDER WAIT YEARS FOR THEIR
HEARINGS, ALL THE WHILE LIVING
AND, AFTER A TIME, LEGALLY
WORKING IN THE U.S..
ERIN BARBATO IS THE DIRECTOR OF
THE IMMIGRANT JUSTICE CLINIC AT
THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN LAW
SCHOOL.
SHE RECENTLY VISITED THE BORDER
AND SHE JOINS US NOW.
THANKS A LOT FOR BEING HERE.
>> Interview: THANK YOU FOR
HAVING ME.
>> SO I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WERE
IN TIJUANA.
>> Interview: YES, IN THE END
OF DECEMBER TO TAKE A CLOSE LOOK
AT WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING ON
THE BORDER AND THE POLICIES THAT
ARE IN PLACE THERE RIGHT NOW
THROUGH THE DEPARTMENT OF
HOMELAND SECURITY AND LOOKING AT
HOW PEOPLE CAN ACCESS OUR ASYLUM
SYSTEM AND THE NEW POLICIES THAT
ARE IN PLACE.
>> WHAT DID YOU SEE AT THE
BORDER?
>> SO WE VISIT A NUMBER OF
SHELTERS THAT WERE HOUSING
PEOPLE WHO ARE IN TRANSIT
ATTEMPTING TO SEEK REFUGE IN THE
U.S..
AND IN ORDER TO DO SO RIGHT NOW,
THEY NEED TO APPLY FOR AN
APPOINTMENT WITH AN APP.
AND MANY OF THE PEOPLE WE MET
WITH HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR
MONTHS IN ORDER TO ACCESS THAT
APPOINTMENT, BUT OUR GOVERNMENT
IS ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO GO
THROUGH A REGULAR ROUTE TO ENTER
THE U.S. TO SEEK PROTECTION, BUT
IT IS CAUSING A LOT OF PEOPLE TO
WAIT VERY LONG IN MEXICO BEFORE
THEY CAN EVEN ACCESS OUR ASYLUM
SYSTEM.
>> WHY ARE SO MANY MILLIONS OF
PEOPLE WANTING TO GAIN ENTRY
INTO THE U.S.?
>> I MEAN, THAT'S A GOOD
QUESTION.
I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT, WE
LIVE IN A GREAT COUNTRY AND
PEOPLE ARE SUFFERING ALL OVER
THE WORLD AND SO IF WE WERE
LIVING IN A COUNTRY WHERE NO ONE
WANTED TO COME, THAT WOULD
PROBABLY BE AN ISSUE, BUT WE'RE
LIVING IN A COUNTRY WHERE WE DO
HAVE OPPORTUNITY FOR PEOPLE.
AND PEOPLES' LICE ARE IN LIVES ARE IN DANGER
IN OTHER COUNTRIES.
>> WHAT POLICIES HAVE CHANGED
ALLOWING THIS MORE RECENT CRUSH?
>> I'M NOT SURE IF THE POLICIES
HAVE CHANGED.
IT'S DIFFICULT IN THE PAST FEW
YEARS COMPARE NUMBER CONSIDERING
THAT THE BORDER WAS CLOSED UNDER
TITLE 42 FOR SO LONG AND NOW
THAT THE BORDER IS -- IT'S NOT
OPEN, BUT IT'S FUNCTIONING UNDER
WHAT'S CALLED TITLE 8, WHICH IS
A LAW THAT GOMPS GOVERNS OUR ASYLUM
PROCESS ALLOWING PEOPLE TO SEEK
ASYLUM WHICH THEY CAN'T DO
UNLESS THEY HAVE A CV APP 1
APPOINTMENT.
ONE OTHER CHANGE THAT
POTENTIALLY HAS SOME VALIDITY IN
HELPING PEOPLE ACCESS THE ASYLUM
SYSTEM IN A MORE REGULAR MANNER
IS THE OPENING OF THESE MOBILE
OFFICES IN COLOMBIA, GUATEMALA
AND COSTA RICA, AND WILL ALLOW
PEOPLE WITH STRONG CASES TO
APPLY FOR REFUGEE EFSTATHIOS
THERE AND THEN FLY TO THE U.S.
AND SO IT COULD TAKE SOME
PRESSURE OFF THE BORDER AS WELL
AS OUR ASYLUM SYSTEM.
>> MEANWHILE, THERE'S SO MUCH
DISCUSSION AROUND AROUND THE AND THE
NUMBERS OF PEOPLE CROSSING INTO
THE UNITED STATES.
WHAT HAPPENS THROUGH SOME
EXECUTIVE OR LEGISLATIVE ACTION
THE BORDERS CLOSE?
IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?
>> IT SEEMS THAT IT IS POSSIBLY,
POTENTIALLY WHETHER OUR
PRESIDENT HAS THE ABILITY UNDER
THE LAWS TO CLOSE THE BORDER I
THINK IS A QUESTION THAT WILL BE
LITIGATED IN COURT.
OUR LAWS SAY THAT PEOPLE HAVE
THE RIGHT TO SEEK ASYLUM IN THE
U.S. AS WELL AS THE BORDER IF
THEY HAVE AN EMPLOYMENT VISA OR
EVEN A VISITOR VISA TO VISIT A
FAMILY.
SO IT COULD HAVE REALLY HARSH
CONSEQUENCES ON SEPARATING
FAMILIES AND ALSO PUTTING MORE
PEOPLE IN DANGER, BUT THAT MAY
HAPPEN.
>> SHORT OF CLOSING THE BORDER,
DOES IT SEEM LIKELY THAT HIGHLY
RESTRICTIVE LAWS WILL BE PUT IN
PLACE AT THIS TIME?
>> I KNOW THAT THEY'VE BEEN
DISCUSSED.
I'M NOT SURE THAT THEY'VE EVER
WORKED BEFORE.
MORE DETERRENTS, MORE
ENFORCEMENT DOESN'T SEEM TO
DETER PEOPLE TO NECESSARILY COME
FROM THE U.S. AND I THINK THERE
MIGHT BE A BETTER WAY TO LOOK AT
A MORE HUMANITARIAN SOLUTION.
>> WHY DO PEOPLE WAIT SO LONG TO
HAVE THEIR CASES HEARD?
>> THE BACKLOG WITHIN OUR
ADMINISTRATIVE LAW SYSTEM IN THE
IMMIGRATION COURTS IS -- IT'S
VERY LONG.
AND SO PEOPLE, EVEN WITH THE
STRONGEST ASYLUM CASES, ARE
WAITING YEARS IN ORDER TO ACCESS
THE BENEFITS THAT THEY ARE
ENTITLED TO UNDER OUR LAWS, AND
SO IT MAKES THE SYSTEM VERY
DIFFICULT TO MANAGE.
PEOPLE MAY MISS THEIR COURT
HEARINGS BECAUSE THE COURT
HEARINGS GET CHANGED ALL OF THE
TIME AND PEOPLE DON'T HAVE AN
ATTORNEY WHEN THEY'RE IN THE
PROCESS UNLESS THEY CAN AFFORD
ONE OR FIND A PRO BONO ONE.
IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT SYSTEM TO
NAVIGATE AND IT'S NOT GOING
QUIBBLE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE
ELIGIBLE QUICKLY FOR PEOPLE WHO
ARE ELIGIBLE.
>> ONCE THEY GET TO THAT
HEARING, HOW LIKELY IS IT THAT
PEOPLE SEEKING ASYLUM WILL BE
GRANTED IT?
>> YOU KNOW, THE PERCENTAGES
DIFFER WHERE YOU'RE IN THE U.S..
THE NUMBERS -- THE JUDGES'
PERCENTAGES OF APPROVAL ARE
AVAILABLE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
SO IT'S HARD TO SAY EXACTLY, BUT
IT'S DIFFICULT.
IT'S NOT -- THE PERCENTAGE IS
NOT HIGH FOR THE PEOPLE THAT
RECEIVE ASYLUM.
IF YOU'RE REPRESENTED BY AN
ATTORNEY, YOU'RE MORE LIKELY TO
GET ASYLUM BECAUSE THEY KNOW
WHAT THE LAW IS, WHAT THE JUDGE
IS LOOKING FOR BASED ON YOUR
STORY, BUT IT'S A VERY
COMPLICATED, DIFFICULT PROCESS
AND PEOPLE DO NOT JUST -- AREN'T
JUST GIVEN PAPERS.
IT TAKES YEARS.
IT TAKES MONTHS TO PREPARE.
IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT PROCESS.
>> MEANWHILE, PEOPLE WHO ARE
AWAITING THAT HEARING, THEY CAN
GET AUTHORIZATION TO WORK
LEGALLY?
>> YES.
NORMALLY, DEPENDING ON WHAT
PROCESS THEY'RE GOING THROUGH,
BUT YOU HAVE TO WAIT A NUMBER OF
MONTHS, NORMALLY SIX MONTHS TO A
YEAR, TO OBTAIN A WORK PERMIT TO
WORK IN THE U.S..
ONCE YOU'RE HERE, YOU'RE HERE
WITH AUTHORIZATION.
YOU CAN WORK, YOU CAN GET A
DRIVER'S LICENSE, YOU CAN GET A
SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER, BUT
YOU'RE NOT HERE PERMANENTLY.
YOU CAN'T LEAVE THE U.S..
YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO PUBLIC
BENEFITS.
YOU ARE HERE TEMPORARILY AND
MAYBE IT'S FOR YEARS WAITING TO
ACCESS THE ASYLUM SYSTEM, BUT
THE WORK PERMIT DOES ALLOW
PEOPLE TO PARTICIPATE IN SOCIETY
AND SUPPORT THEMSELVES.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
ERIN BARBATO, THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> IN EDUCATION NEWS, THE NUMBER
OF UW CAMPUSES GOING TO ON-LINE
CLASSES INSTEAD OF IN-PERSON
INSTRUCTION HAS RISEN TO THREE.
AT WEST BEND, FOND du LAC AND
MARINETTE.
UW RICHLAND HAS CLOSED
ALTOGETHER.
THE MARINETTE CAMPUS IS PART OF
UW GREEN BAY AND ITS CHANCELLOR,
MICHAEL ALEXANDER, SAYS THE
WRITING WAS ON THE WALL, WHAT
WITH DECLINING ENROLLMENT AND
COMPETITION FOR STUDENTS FROM
THE NEARBY NORTHEAST WISCONSIN
TECHNICAL COLLEGE.
>> THERE HAS TO BE ACCESS POINTS
TO EDUCATION.
UW GREEN BAY HAS TO HAVE A
PRESENCE IN WISCONSIN.
AND WE'RE INVESTING IN THE HIGH
SCHOOLS THERE, TO BE CLEAR.
SO WITH OUR RISING PHOENIX
PROGRAM AND EVERYTHING THAT WE
DO, OUR STUDENTS PARTICULARLY
WHO ARE INTERESTED IN COLLEGE TO
GET THEM A HEAD START ON THE
COLLEGE EXPERIENCE, TO BE ABLE
TO OFFER CLASSES WITH THE HIGH
SCHOOLS MIGHT NOT OTHERWISE BE
ABLE TO OFFER WITH A SMALLER
POPULATION IN THE HIGH SCHOOL.
RIGHT?
THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE
ABSOLUTELY ARE TRYING TO DO TO
HELP THAT REGION.
BECAUSE IT DOES MATTER.
RIGHT?
WE CAN'T LOOK AT THE PROBLEM AND
JUST THROW OUR HANDS UP.
WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO
ACTUALLY MAKE IT BETTER AND
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO
HERE.
AND, AGAIN, I GO BACK TO THE
NWTC ISSUE.
RIGHT?
WE THINK A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY
ABOUT THIS SOMETIMES, BUT I WANT
TO BE CLEAR, IF MOST OF THOSE
CLASSES, IF NOT ALL OF THOSE
CLASSES, THOSE 14 CLASSES,
THERE'S A CLASS THAT'S PRETTY
MUCH BEING IDENTICALLY TAUGHT BY
NWTC.
WHY ARE WE DUPLICATING OUR
EDUCATIONAL RESOURCES THIS AN
AREA THAT IS HARDER TO SERVE
BECAUSE OF HOW SPREAD OUT IT IS
WITH THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT
ARE THERE AND THE POPULATION?
YOU'VE GOT TO THINK DIFFERENTLY
ABOUT HOW WE ACCESS -- GIVE
ACCESS TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO WANT
IT.
>> SO WHAT DOES THE CLOSURE OF
TWO-YEAR CAMPUSES TO IN-PERSON
CLASSES ACROSS WISCONSIN MEAN
FOR ACCESS AND DEGREE ATTAINMENT
FOR STUDENTS?
WE CHECK IN WITH THE NATIONAL
NON-PARTISAN, NONPROFIT GROUP,
NDRC, AND ITS RESEARCH ASSOCIATE
IN THE AREA OF RURAL HIGHER
EDUCATION, ALYSSA RATLEDGE.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> SO YOU HAVE WRITTEN THAT
RURAL COLLEGES MATTER.
HOW SO?
>> RURAL COLLEGES ARE OFTEN THE
ONLY ACCESS POINT TO HIGHER
EDUCATION POSTSECONDARY TRAINING
AND WORKFORCE TRAINING FOR
PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN RURAL AREAS.
MANY PEOPLE LIVING IN RURAL
AREAS ARE SIMPLY UNABLE TO MOVE
AWAY TO GO TO COLLEGE AND THEY
DO NOT ALWAYS HAVE ON-LINE
ACCESS TO BE ABLE TO TAKE UP
ON-LINE OFFERINGS.
SO THE ABILITY TO GO TO A
COLLEGE AND, AGAIN, THESE MIGHT
BE DISTANT, WE MIGHT BE
TRAVELING 25, 50, EVEN A HUNDRED
MILES TO COLLEGE, BUT IT STILL
MEANS FOLKS CAN STAY WHERE THEY
ARE METROPOLITAN WHERE THEIR
FAMILIES ARE LOCATED.
WE'RE NEAR CLOSING CAMPUSES, IT
CAN BE REALLY CHALLENGING FOR
THOSE FOLKS TO CONTINUE TO
ENGAGE OR TO ACHIEVE THE
POSTSECONDARY CREDENTIAL THAT
THEY'RE INTERESTED IN.
>> BECAUSE IN THE END, WHAT
HAPPENS WHEN THEY'RE IN
EDUCATION DESERTS?
>> EDUCATION DESERTS HAVE A
CHILLING EFFECT ON STUDENTS'
LIKELIHOOD OF GOING TO COLLEGE,
BUT ALSO IMPORTANTLY, THEY'RE
LIKELIHOOD OF COMPLETELY
COLLEGE.
NATIONALLY, MOST STUDENTS WHO
ARE ATTENDING COLLEGE ARE DOING
SO WITHIN ABOUT 25 MILES OF
THEIR HOMES.
IT'S NOT REALLY THESE DAYS THE
TRADITIONAL SENSE OF BEING 18
AND GOING OFF TO COLLEGE AND
LIVING ON CAMPUS.
THESE DAYS, MOST COLLEGE
STUDENTS ARE COMMUTING AND A LOT
OF THEM PARTICULARLY IN THE
TWO-YEAR SPACE ARE ATTENDING
PART-TIME, AND TODAY'S COLLEGE
STUDENT IS MUCH OLDER THAN THE
TRADITIONAL CONCEPTION.
THOSE FOLKS ARE NOT GOING TO
PICK UP AND LEAVE.
THEN HAVE FAMILIES AND JOBS AND
RESPONSIBILITIES, NOR DO THEY
WANT TO LEAVE.
OFTENTIMES WE HEAR THAT OUR
RURAL FOLKS WANT TO STAY WHERE
THEY ARE, CONTRIBUTE TO THE
LOCAL COMMUNITY, AND HAVING
WORKFORCE TRAINING OR A COLLEGE
DEGREE CAN HELP THEM DO THAT IN
A MEANINGFUL WAY IF THEY'RE ABLE
TO ACCESS IT.
>> SO THE UW GREEN BAY TWO-YEAR
BRANCH IN MARINETTE IS GOING
MOSTLY ON-LINE.
DOESN'T THAT STILL AFFORD ACCESS
TO RURAL STUDENTS?
>> THERE ARE MANY RURAL STUDENTS
FOR WHOM ON-LINE ACCESS IS GOING
TO BE ENOUGH.
AND WHEN WE THINK ABOUT OUR
STUDENTS WHO ARE COMING OUT OF
HIGH SCHOOL, HAVE GOOD ACCESS,
HAVE GOOD KNOWLEDGE OF THE
INTERNET, YES, THAT CAN BE A
GOOD OPTION FOR THEM.
HOWEVER, THERE ARE GOING TO BE A
LOT OF FOLKS THAT ARE NOT GOING
TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT UP.
OFTENTIMES THAT'S OLDER FOLKS OR
PEOPLE WHO ARE LIVING IN VERY
REMOTE AND RURAL FRINGE
LOCATIONS WHERE THEY SIMPLY
DON'T HAVE RELIABLE BROADBAND
OR, IN SOME PLACES, DON'T HAVE
INTERNET ACCESS AT ALL.
THERE ARE STILL PARTS OF THE
COUNTRY WITHOUT RELIABLE
INTERNET ACCESS AND MANY OF THE
ON-LINE COURSE OFFERINGS ARE
GOING TO REQUIRE A HIGH-SPEED
CONNECTION OR THE ABILITY TO
DOWNLOAD DOCUMENTS THAT JUST IS
OUT OF REACH FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE
LIVING REALLY OFF THE GRID.
>> SO WHAT ABOUT THE FACT THAT
FOR THE CAMPUSES THAT ARE
REALIGNING OR EVEN CLOSING, THE
PROBLEM IS REALLY LOW
ENROLLMENT, WHICH MAKES
MAINTAINING THE WHOLE KIND OF
CAMPUS INFRASTRUCTURE UNTENABLE.
DOESN'T IT MAKE SENSE TO
BASICALLY DOWNSIZE FOR THE
UNIVERSITY SYSTEM?
>> IT MAY MAKE SENSE IF THERE'S
NOT A WILLINGNESS TO INVEST IN
SUPPORTING THOSE CAMPUSES AT THE
STATE LEVEL, YES, IT CAN BE AN
UNTENABLE SITUATION WHEN YOU
LOOK AT THE BOTTOM LINE AND THE
BUDGETS.
THAT IS ULTIMATELY A
PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION WE HAVE
TO GRAPPLE WITH.
RIGHT?
ARE WE WILLING TO FUND PLACES
THAT WE ARE GOING TO BE SEEING
BUDGETS REALLY STRUGGLING TO
MAKE ENDS MEET GIVEN THE
REDUCTION IN STUDENTS AT THE
COST OF POTENTIALLY SOME OF
THOSE STUDENTS ARE GOING TO
STRUGGLE WITH OR BE UNABLE TO
COMPLETE A COLLEGE DEGREE, IF
THAT LOCATION IS CLOSED.
>> SO A RECENT PAPER FROM THE
FEDERAL RESERVE DISCUSSED HOW
EMPLOYMENT AND MANUFACTURING IN
THE AGRICULTURAL SECTORS HAS
DECREASED IN WISCONSIN OVER THE
PAST 10 YEARS.
WHERE DOES THAT LEAVE PEOPLE WHO
HAVEN'T UPSKILLED FOR A CHANGED
ECONOMY, ESPECIALLY IN RURAL
PARTS OF OUR STATE?
>> YEAH.
IT IS AN ENORMOUS CHALLENGE.
IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
WE SEE THIS IN A LOT OF PLACES
ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WHERE
NATURAL RESOURCES, ECONOMIES OR
AGRICULTURAL ECONOMIES ARE
CHANGING AND WE ALSO KNOW THAT
IT IS HARDER THAN EVER FOR AN
AGRICULTURAL WORKERS AND FAMILY
FARMS TO MAKE ENDS MEET.
AT THE SAME TIME, THERE IS AN
ADDITIONAL TECHNOLOGICAL
COMPONENT TO MANY OF THOSE JOBS
THAT COULD BE GREATLY BENEFITED
FROM SOME ADDITIONAL WORKFORCE
TRAINING OR TECHNOLOGICAL
TRAINING.
SO LEAVING FOLKS IN THOSE AREAS
WITHOUT ACCESS TO THAT TRAINING
CAN MAKE IT REALLY DIFFICULT FOR
THEM TO COMPETE IN A CHANGING
ECONOMY.
THIS IS ESPECIALLY TRUE FOR
THOSE FOLKS AND THOSE
COMMUNITIES WHERE PEOPLE WANT TO
STAY WHERE THEY ARE.
RIGHT?
THERE'S ALWAYS THE OPTION, OF
COURSE, TO MOVE TO A BIG CITY,
BUT THAT JUST CONTINUES TO
HOLLOW OUR RURAL TOWNS AND
COUNTIES OUT.
SO IF WE WANT TO KEEP THE
SUSTAINABLE ECONOMY IN THESE
PLACES, WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT
HOW WE CAN SUPPORT FOLKS TO BE
ABLE TO AFFORD AND COMPLETELY
UP-SKILLING, WHETHER THAT'S A
TRADITIONAL COLLEGE DEGREE OR A
TRADE CERTIFICATE OR WORKFORCE
TRAINING.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE LEAVE IT THERE.
ALYSSA RATLEDGE, THANKS VERY
MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER
ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN, VISIT
OUR WEBSITE AT PBSWISCONSIN.ORG
AND THEN CLICK ON THE NEWS TAB.
THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.