>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A
PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> 2024 PRESIDENTIAL HOPEFULS
DRIVE HOME THEIR SUPPORT FOR THE
WORKING CLASS AMIDST AN HISTORIC
STRIKE BY THE AUTO WORKERS AND
WISCONSIN WORKERS JOIN THE
FRONTLINES.
>>Chanting:
>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE & NOW," WE HEAR
FROM VOICES ON THE PICKET LINE
AND WE LOOK IT THROUGH AN
HISTORICAL LENS.
PAUL RYAN TELLS US THAT
REPUBLICANS WILL LOSE WITH
TRUMP.
LOCAL LEADERS DRAFTING A
MISSISSIPPI RIVER COMPACT.
AND Lac du FLAMBEAU COMBATS
THREATS TO WILD RICE.
IT'S "HERE & NOW" FOR SEPTEMBER
29.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE & NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.
>> THE UNITED AUTO WORKER'S
UNION TODAY EXPANDED THE
NATIONWIDE PICKET LINE AGAINST
THE COUNTRY'S THREE LARGEST
CONSIDER MANUFACTURERS.
IT'S BEEN TWO WEEKS SINCE U.A.W.
FIRST WALKED OFF THE JOB TO
STRIKE GENERAL MOTORS, FORD AND
CHRYSLER PARENT COMPANIES.
IT'S BEEN ONE WEEK SINCE THE
AUTO PARTS MAKERS JOINED THEM,
INCLUDING TWO WISCONSIN PLANTS
IN MILWAUKEE AND HUDSON.
MARISA WOJCIK HAS MORE.
[CHANTING]
>> NOBODY'S EVER DONE THIS IN
THE HISTORY OF THE U.A.W., PUT
ALL THREE OUT.
>> IN WEEKLY WAVES, UNITED AUTO
WORKERS ARE JOINING THE PICKET
LINE, STRIKING THE COUNTRY'S
THREE CAR MANUFACTURING GIANTS.
>> NOTIFIED MY MEMBERS THAT
MORNING AT APPROXIMATELY 9:00
THAT GET READY TO GO, WE'LL BE
WALKING AT 11:00.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID.
>> STEVE IS THE PRESIDENT OF
U.A.W. LOCAL 722 AT AT A GM
FACILITY IN HUDSON.
HIS MEMBERS WHO VOTED 97% IN
FAVOR TO STRIKE STAND WITH AUTO
WORKERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WITH
THE ULTIMATE GOAL OF
RENEGOTIATING 146,000 CONTRACTS.
FOR MEMBERS, THE PURPOSE IS
SIMPLE.
>> STRIKING FOR OUR RIGHTS.
>> Reporter: ONE MAJOR DEMAND
IS A 36% WAGE INCREASE AND COST
OF LIVING ADJUSTMENTS.
>> I ACTUALLY MAKE LESS MONEY
TODAY THAN I DID WHEN I HIRED IN
AT GENERAL MOTORS IN 1986.
>> Reporter: DEPRESSED WAGES
HIT WORKERS HARD AMIDST SOARING
INFLATION.
>> A LOT OF THEM HAVE TO WORK
THE OVERTIME AND EVEN HAVE
SECOND JOBS BECAUSE THEY CAN'T
SURVIVE ON THAT AMOUNT OF MONEY.
>> Reporter: ANOTHER PRIMARY
DEMAND IS AN END TO THE TWO-TIER
SYSTEM.
>> THEY CAN START PEOPLE AT
LOWER WAGES AND THEY WOULD NEVER
ACTUALLY GET FULL WAGE WAS THE
LIKE THE LEGACY EMPLOYEES DID.
IT'S BITING THE WORKFORCE AND IT
HAS CAUSED ANIMOSITY BETWEEN
WORKERS.
>> Reporter: THE UNION SAYS
HOW THEY GOT HERE DATES BACK TO
2009, WHEN FORD, CHRYSLER AND
GENERAL MOTORS FACED BANKRUPTCY.
A FEDERAL BAIL-OUT SAVED THEM
FROM COMPLETE COLLAPSE.
>> ONE OF THE CONDITIONS OF THAT
BAIL-OUT BILL WAS THAT THE UNION
HAD TO REALLY OPEN THE CONTRACT
AND SACRIFICE A LOT OF THINGS
THAT WE HAD NEGOTIATED, AND NOW
THAT THESE COMPANIES ARE MAKING,
THE THREE OF THEM HAVE MADE
QUARTER OF A TRILLION DOLLARS IN
PROFITS THE LAST 10 YEARS.
>> IT HAS TO COME BACK AROUND.
WE GAVE WHEN THEY WERE BANKRUPT,
GOING DOWN THE TUBES.
WE GAVE.
NOW IT'S TIME TO GIVE A LITTLE
BIT OF THAT BACK.
THAT'S ALL WE ASK.
>> WE PRODUCE MILLIONS OF
DOLLARS IN PROFITS PER MONTH OUT
OF HERE.
>> JOE IS THE LOCAL PRESIDENT
WHICH REPRESENTS WORKERS AT A
FACILITY IN MILWAUKEE, CHRYSLER,
A LOCATION NOW AT RISK OF
CLOSURE.
>> ANY TIME YOU'RE ON A TRAFFIC
BLOCK, YOU'VE GOT TO WATCH.
>> A COMMON THEME AMONG THESE
UNION VETERANS IS FIGHTING FOR
THE NEXT GENERATION.
>> I'M FIGHTING FOR THESE YOUNG
PEOPLE WITH YOUNG FAMILIES.
>> AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING,
BRINGING THESE YOUNGER KIDS UP
TO LEARN HOW TO DO THESE THINGS
SO THAT WHEN WE'RE GONE, THEY
CAN TAKE OVER.
>> WHILE NEGOTIATIONS HAVE BEEN
ONGOING, AN END DOESN'T APPEAR
TO BE IN SIGHT AS THE UNION
EXPANDED STRIKES FRIDAY TO
25,000 PEOPLE.
THE U.A.W. STRIKE MIRRORS THE
NATIONAL RESURGENCE FOR UNIONS
ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
>> YOU'RE SEEING A LOT OF PEOPLE
ORGANIZING NOW.
PEOPLE ARE TIRED OF IT AND
THEY'RE FIGHTING BACK AND THAT'S
A GOOD THING BECAUSE WE NEEDED
THAT TO HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY.
>> IF IT WASN'T FOR THE UNION,
YOU WOULDN'T HAVE 40-HOUR WORK
WEEKS, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE PAID
HOLIDAYS, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE
EIGHT-HOUR WORK DAYS.
THE UNION FIGHTS FOR EVERYBODY,
WHETHER THEY KNOW IT OR NOT,
BECAUSE WHAT WE DO DRIVES THE
COMMUNITY, IT DRIVES THE AREA.
>> Reporter: REPORTING FOR
"HERE & NOW," I'M MARISA WOJCIK.
>> NO PUN INTENDED, BUT WHAT
WERE DRIVING FORCES BEHIND THE
AUW STRIKE AND OTHER ACTIONS
ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND HERE IN
WISCONSIN?
TO TAKE THE TEMPERATURE ON
ORGANIZED LABOR AND
UNIONIZATION, WHERE IT'S BEEN
AND WHERE IT'S GOING, WE TURN TO
RETIRED PROFESSOR OF ECONOMICS
AT MILWAUKEE AREA TECHNICAL
COLLEGE, MICHAEL ROSEN.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> I'M DELIGHTED TO BE HERE.
>> SO OF PARTICULAR INTEREST
ABOUT YOU, WOW WORKED AT THE
CHRYSLER -- YOU WORKED AT THE
CHRYSLER PLANT IN KENOSHA BEFORE
IT CLOSED.
HOW WAS THE AUTO WORKER'S UNION
DIFFERENT THEN?
>> WELL, IT WAS -- HOW WAS IT
DIFFERENT THEN?
IT WAS A PRETTY STRONG UNION IN
KENOSHA AT THAT TIME.
IT WAS LED BY RUDI KOZAL, WHO
HAS SINCE PASSED AWAY, BUT IT
WAS A VERY STRONG UNION.
IN FACT, IN THE LATE '80s,
WHEN CHRYSLER WAS -- WHEN THEY
WERE THREATENING TO CLOSE THAT
ENTIRE PLANT, KOZAL LED THE
UNION IN A FIGHT THAT ACTUALLY
BROUGHT AN ENGINE PLANT TO
KENOSHA AND KEPT MANY PEOPLE'S
JOBS, SO IT WAS ALWAYS A STRONG
FIGHTING UNION, THE U.A.W.
>> SO IN THIS STRIKE, AS YOU
KNOW, THE U.A.W. WANTS RAISES IN
PARODY WITH C.E.O. COMPENSATION
INCREASES, AND THE MEDIAN PAY
FOR THESE AUTO WORKERS, I'VE
READ, IS IN THE 80,000-DOLLAR
RANGE, INCLUDING BENEFITS, BUT
THE GM C.E.O.s COMPENSATION
PACKAGE IS SOMETHING LIKE $29
MILLION.
HOW DOES THIS GAP SQUARE TO THE
HEYDAY OF AUTO UNIONS IN, SAY,
THE '60s AND '70s?
>> WELL, WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT --
THIS IS -- WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT
IN GENERAL THE RELATIONSHIP
BETWEEN WORKERS AND C.E.O.s,
IN 1965, C.E.O.s MADE 15 TIMES
AS MUCH AS THEIR WORKERS.
TODAY, IT'S OVER 350 TIMES.
THE AUTO COMPANIES HAVE MADE A
QUARTER OF A TRILLION DOLLARS
OVER THE LAST DECADE AND YET THE
AUTO WORKERS HAVE SEEN A DECLINE
IN THEIR WAGES, IN REAL WAGES,
SPENDING POWER, OF 20%.
20%.
MEANWHILE, THE C.E.O.s ARE
BEING PAID $20 MILLION A YEAR,
GETTING $20 MILLION A YEAR
RAISES, AND THIS IS REALLY THE
HEART OF THE MATTER, THE PEOPLE
WHO ARE CREATING THE WEALTH FOR
THESE AUTO COMPANIES HAVE NOT
BEEN ADEQUATELY COMPENSATED.
YOU MAY KNOW THIS, BUT THEY GAVE
UP -- THEY GAVE UP COST OF
BENEFIT INCREASES IN THE GREAT
RECESSION.
THEY HAVE NOT GOTTEN THOSE BACK.
AND THAT'S ONE OF THE ISSUES
DRIVING THE STRIKE.
ANOTHER ISSUE THAT'S DRIVING
THAT STRIKE IS THAT THEY HAVE A
TWO-TIER SYSTEM.
MANY OF THE WORKERS ARE PAID
SIGNIFICANTLY LESS THAN THE MORE
SENIOR WORKERS, AND THAT'S
NOT -- AND ACCORDING TO THE
WORKERS THEMSELVES, THAT'S
SIMPLY NOT FAIR.
>> SO YOU HAVE SAID, AND YOU'RE
JUST SAYING NOW, THAT COMPANIES
CONSISTENTLY DEMANDED
CONCESSIONS FROM THE FRONTLINE
WORKERS WHO WERE CREATING THIS
WEALTH, BUT IS THE TIDE TURNING
FOR UNION LABOR ON TAKING THOSE
KINDS OF CONCESSIONS?
>> I THINK IT IS.
I THINK THAT THERE'S SEVERAL
REASONS FOR THAT, BUT ONE OF THE
MOST IMPORTANT IS THAT WE HAVE A
VERY STRONG ECONOMY RIGHT NOW
AND WHEN WE HAVE A TIGHT
ECONOMY, THAT IS WHEN
UNEMPLOYMENT IS VERY LOW,
WORKERS ARE LESS FEARFUL ABOUT
LOSING THEIR JOBS, AND THAT'S
NOT THE CASE JUST RECENTLY.
THAT'S BEEN THE CASE
HISTORICALLY, ALL THE WAY BACK
TO THE 1800s.
IN THE 1830s, IN THE EARLY
1830s, YOU SAW ORGANIZING OF
WORKERS IN THE LOCAL MILLS,
MAINLY WOMEN WORKERS, YOUNG
WOMEN WHO COME OFF THE FARMS TO
WORK IN THESE MILLS, WHEN THE
ECONOMY WAS STRONG, AND THEY
BUILT UNIONS AND THEN, OF
COURSE, WHEN THE ECONOMY GOT
WEAKER, THEY WERE LAID OFF AND
UNIONS DECLINED, AND THAT'S BEEN
A HISTORIC PATTERN.
>> THIS QUESTION, WHAT ABOUT THE
ARGUMENT THAT GIVING WORKERS THE
KINDS OF PAY RAISES THAT THEY'RE
TALKING ABOUT, 36%, WILL COST
CONSUMERS MORE BECAUSE
PRODUCTION COSTS WILL GO UP?
>> WELL, IT'S POSSIBLE THAT IT
WILL COST CONSUMERS MORE.
BUT IN THE 1960s, AND '70s,
UP UNTIL 1979, WAGES ROSE IN
TANDEM WITH PRODUCTIVITY.
AS PRODUCTIVITY WENT UP, THE
GAINS IN PRODUCTIVITY, THAT'S
THE OUTPUT THAT THE WORKERS ARE
PRODUCING, WAS SHARED WITH THE
WORKERS.
IT WENT IN TANDEM.
SINCE THAT TIME, SINCE THAT
TIME, THERE'S BEEN A HUGE
DECLINE, INCREASES IN
PRODUCTIVITY OF 65%, BUT WAGES
FOR WORKERS HAVE ONLY GONE UP
17%.
SO WE KNOW FROM HISTORY, WE KNOW
FROM OUR OWN HISTORY IN THE
1950s, '60s AND EVEN '70s,
THAT YOU COULD COMPENSATE
WORKERS ADEQUATELY BECAUSE THEIR
PRODUCTIVITY WAS INCREASING, AND
THAT WAS BROKEN BEGINNING IN
ABOUT 1979 AND '8, AND EVER
SINCE THEN, WE'VE SEEN A HUGE
RISE IN INEQUALITY.
SO I THINK THE EXPERIENCE
INDICATES THAT YOU CAN PAY --
ADEQUATELY PAY PEOPLE.
NOW, ARE WILL THAT MEAN THAT OTHER
C.E.O.s WILL BE LESS
COMPENSATED?
POSSIBLY.
WILL IT MEAN THAT THERE'S SOME
INCREASE IN PRICES?
IT COULD MEAN.
BUT REMEMBER, IN THE AUTO
INDUSTRY, THE COST OF LABOR IS A
VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE
COST OF PRODUCTION.
LESS THAN 6%.
>> WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
THERE'S A LOT MORE TO TALK ABOUT
AND WE WILL CALL ON YOU AGAIN.
MICHAEL ROSEN, THANK YOU VERY
MUCH.
>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING
ME.
I ENJOYED IT AND I HOPE WE TALK
AGAIN SOON.
>> THANK YOU.
>>> IF DONALD TRUMP IS THE
NOMINEE, REPUBLICANS WILL LOSE
THE ELECTION.
THAT'S WHAT FORMER REPUBLICAN
HOUSE SPEAKER AND JANESVILLE
CONGRESSMAN PAUL RYAN SAID THIS
WEEK SPEAKING AT UW-MADISON.
STEVEN POTTER SAT DOWN WITH RYAN
AND LEARNED MORE ABOUT THAT
OPINION.
BUT STARTED HIS DISCUSSION BY
ASKING HOW CURRENT CONGRESSIONAL
LEADERSHIP CAN AVOID A FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.
>> THE PROBLEM IS MORE OF OUR
MEMBERS ARE NEW AND HAVE NEVER
BEEN THERE FOR A GOVERNMENT
SHUTDOWN, SO I THINK THERE ARE A
FEW PEOPLE PINING FOR A
GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN.
NOTHING IS GAINED FROM IT.
IT DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD.
AND I KNOW SPEAKER McCARTHY
WOULD LIKE TO AVOID IT, BUT I
DON'T KNOW THAT HE'LL HAVE THE
VOTES TO AVOID IT, AND THAT'S
GOING TO BE A REAL PROBLEM.
>> WHAT STEP SHOULD LEADERS TAKE
TO MAKE SURE THE ECONOMY IS THE
STRONGEST AND SAFEST IT CAN BE?
>> YOU DON'T WANT TO DO ANYTHING
MORE TO FEED INFLATION.
I THINK YOU WANT TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE DON'T STIFLE INNOVATION
WITH OVERREGULATION FROM
GOVERNMENTAL AGENCIES, AND I
THINK TAX POLICY, YOU HAVE A LOT
OF THE TAX CODE, PARTICULARLY IN
SMALL BUSINESSES, THAT ARE
EXPIRING IN 2025.
IF WE COULD GIVE BUSINESSES
CERTAINTY THAT THEIR TAXES
AREN'T GOING TO GO UP
DRAMATICALLY, THAT WOULD HELP A
LOT OF LONG-TERM PLANNING.
OVER THE LONG-TERM, WE'VE GOT TO
GET OUR DID HE GET UNDER
CONTROL, AND THAT MEANS THAT WE
HAVE TO DEAL WITH THE MAJORITY
OF GOVERNMENT FUNDING THAT IS
NOT IN THESE ANNUAL
APPROPRIATION BILLS.
THOSE ARE ENTITLEMENT BILLS.
OUR SOCIAL CONTRACT IS VERY
IMPORTANT T. PROVIDES A SAFETY
NET FOR THE POOR, HEALTH AND
RETIREMENT SECURITY FOR MOST
AMERICANS, BUT IT WAS WRITTEN IN
WAYS THAT ARE PROVING
UNSUSTAINABLE IN THE 20th
CENTURY FOR THIS 21st CENTURY
SO WE NEED REFORMS OF THESE
PROGRAMS SO THAT THEY CAN
PALESTINIAN AND DON'T BANKRUPTED
THE COUNTRY.
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK THE CHANCES
ARE THAT THE REPUBLICANS WILL
TAKE BACK THE WHITE HOUSE?
>> IF WE CAN BEAT TRUMP, WE'LL
WIN.
IF WE NOMINATE NATURE TRUMP,
WE'LL LOSE.
IT'S JUST THAT SECRET.
>> WHEN I WAS RECIPE SPEAKER OF
THE HOUSE, I GOVERNED WITH HIM.
THERE'S TWO REASONS I DON'T
SUPPORT TRUMP.
ONE PRACTICAL ONE, EVER SINCE
HIS ONE WIN IN 2016, WE'VE BEEN
LOSING EVER SINCE.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE KEY SWING
STATES IN AMERICA THAT WILL
DETERMINE THE PRESIDENCY,
WISCONSIN BEING ONE OF THEM,
IT'S THE SUBURBAN VOTER THAT IS
THE SWING VOTER IN THOSE STATES.
WISCONSIN, GEORGIA, NEVADA,
ARIZONA, MAYBE PENNSYLVANIA.
SUBURBAN VOTERS IN THOSE STATES
ARE THE SWING VOTERS.
YOU THINK THE COLLEGE EDUCATED
SUBURBAN VOTER SAY IN THE WILD
COUNTIES IN WISCONSIN LIKE
DONALD TRUMP MORE SINCE JANUARY
6 THAN THEY DID BEFORE?
SO I DON'T SEE ANY SCENARIO
WHERE THOSE SWING VOTERS ARE
GOING TO BE MORE LIKELY WITH
DONALD TRUMP.
THE MAIN REASON IS I DON'T THINK
HE'S FIT TO BE PRESIDENT.
I JUST DON'T THINK -- I THINK HE
PROVED IT TO ALL OF US ON
JANUARY 6th, BUT I JUST DON'T
THINK HE'S FIT FOR OFFICE.
>> A NEW PEW RESEARCH POLL SAID
THAT AMERICANS FEEL EXHAUSTED
WHEN FEELING ABOUT POLITICS, 60%
OF THEM.
355% ARE ANGRY WHEN THINKING
ABOUT POLITICS.
WHAT NEEDS TO BE DONE TO KEEP
AMERICANS ENGAGED IN POLITICS
AND ELECTIONS?
>> THE QUESTION IS CAN WE HAVE
POLL POLITICIANS THAT PROVIDE A
BETTER VERSION OF POLITICS AND
POLITICALLY VIABLE.
THAT'S WHAT I'M PRAYING AND
HOPING FOR.
SO CAN WE HAVE POLITICIANS THAT
CAN CAMPAIGN ON ACTUALLY SOLVING
PROBLEMS, BRINGING US TOGETHER
AND FASHIONING SORT OF
INSPIRATIONAL INCLUSION,
POLITICAL AGENDA THAT ACTUALLY
SOLVES PROBLEMS, DO IT FROM THE
RIGHT PERSPECTIVE, DO IT FROM
THE LEFT'S PERSPECTIVE, BUT
DEBATE ABOUT IDEAS IN SOLVING
PROBLEMS.
I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THE
COUNTRY IS GETTING FATIGUED FROM
THIS HYPER PARTISANSHIP AND
POLARIZATION AND THAT THEY WOULD
REWARD POLITICAL ASPIRING
LEADERS WHO OFFER THAT KIND OF
POLITICS.
>> IN WISCONSIN, WE ARE
FORTUNATE TO BE SURROUNDED BY
HUGE BODIES OF WATER, INCLUDING
THE MIGHTY MISSISSIPPI.
PARCHED STATES LIKE ARIZONA WITH
THEIR OWN RIVERS DRYING UP ARE
EYEING OUR WATER TO PUMP THEIR
WAY.
CONCERN OVER SUCH DIVERSION IS
PROMPTING ACTION TO PREVENT IT.
THIS MONTH, 30 MAYORS
REPRESENTING 10 STATES VOTED IN
FAVOR OF FORMING A MISSISSIPPI
RIVER COMPACT.
LACROSSE MAYOR, MITCH REYNOLDS,
IS AMONG THE MAYORS LEADING THE
EFFORT AND HE JOINS US NOW.
THANKS VERY MUCH FOR BEING HERE.
>> WELL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING
ME.
IT'S A PLEASURE.
>> SO WHAT WOULD A MISSISSIPPI
RIVER COMPACT DO?
>> IT'S REALLY MODELLED AFTER
THE GREAT LAKES COMPACT AND IT'S
REALLY MEANT TO PROTECT THE
MISSISSIPPI RIVER AS A WATER
RESOURCE FOR NOW AND FOR
GENERATIONS TO COME.
SO WE HAVE TO MAINTAIN THE
MISSISSIPPI RIVER AS NOT ONLY AS
SOMETHING THAT'S BENEFICIAL FOR
OUR COMMUNITIES UP AND DOWN THE
MISSISSIPPI RIVER, BUT ALSO FOR
OUR ENTIRE NATION.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE NUMBER
OF STATES THAT THE BASIN DRAINS,
IT'S 32 STATES THAT THE BASIN
DRAINS AND THERE'S 40% OF THE AG
PRODUCTS IN THE NATION WILL
BE -- WILL GO -- WILL TRAVEL
DOWN THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER, AND
SO FOR US TO CREATE A COMPACT,
IS THERE A SENSIBLE WAY TO
ENSURE THAT THE THE MISSISSIPPI
RIVER IS THEY USE AS A I GO
WATER RESOURCE, NATURAL HABITAT
RESOURCE, NAVIGATION RESOURCE,
ECONOMIC RESOURCE FOR
GENERATIONS TO COME.
>> SO I KNOW THAT THE CONCERNS
ARE AROUND DIVERSION TO STATES
THAT SORELY NEED WATER, BUT
WOULD IT REALLY BE FEASIBLE TO
PUMP OR DIVERT THE WATER OUT
WEST?
>> YOU WOULDN'T THINK SO.
I MEAN, YOU WOULD THINK THAT IT
WOULD BE JUST INCOMPREHENSIBLE
TO TAKE A PIPE AND RUN IT ACROSS
THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA TO
THE SOUTHWEST AND SAY, "HERE'S
YOUR WATER," BUT WE DO THAT FOR
OIL AND ARGUABLY WATER IS THE
MORE SIGNIFICANT RESOURCE THAN
WATER IS.
I WOULD ARGUE THAT.
SO I'M NOT PUTTING IT PAST
ANYBODY.
WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT
SAY, WELL, THIS WILL NEVER
HAPPEN.
WELL, IT MAY NEVER HAPPEN, BUT
IT MIGHT HAPPEN.
SO WHY NOT CREATE A COMPACT TO
ENSURE THAT IT DOESN'T, AND NOT
ONLY TO MAKE SURE DIVERSION IS
NOT AN OPTION, BUT MAKE SURE
WE'RE ACTING IN UNITY TO PROTECT
THE RESOURCE, AND I THINK THAT
THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, AGAIN,
THE ENTIRE NATION HAS AN
INTEREST IN.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
SO IT'S FASHIONED AFTER THE
GREAT LAKES COMPACT.
WE KNOW THAT TOOK YEARS TO
ENACT.
WHAT'S THE TIME LINE HERE?
>> WELL, HOPEFULLY SOONER,
QUICKER THAN YOURS, AND I THINK
THAT BECAUSE THERE IS THAT MODEL
THERE WITH THE GREAT LAKES
COMPACT, AND, OF COURSE, THE
GREAT LAKES COMPACT IS TWO
NATIONS, OBVIOUSLY, TOO, SO IT'S
NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES.
IT'S CANADA AS WELL.
WE HAVE 10 STATES AND WE NEED
OUR STATE LEGISLATURES TO
CHAMPION THIS AND TO APPROVE
THAT, WE NEED THE FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT TO APPROVE IT, BUT I
THINK THAT WE ALREADY HAVE A
PRECEDENT OF THE GREAT LAKES
COMPACT.
IT FEELS LIKE THIS IS A MUCH
MORE DOABLE PROPOSITION.
>> WHAT DO YOU KNOW --
>> , SO AGAIN, EXACT TIME LINE,
I'M NOT SURE, BUT I THINK...
>> WHAT DO YOU KNOW ABOUT THE
LEGISLATURE'S SENSE OF WEATHER
THEY WOULD SUPPORT THIS?
>> GREAT QUESTION.
I GUESS WE'RE EARLY ON IN THIS
PROCESS.
I CAN'T IMAGINE THAT
LEGISLATURES IN THESE 10 STATES
WOULD SAY, "NO, WE'RE NOT
PROTECTING THE MISSISSIPPI
RIVER."
IS THE LIFE BLOOD OF ALL OF
THESE STATES.
IT'S HARD FOR ME TO BELIEVE THAT
THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN, BUT
MAYBE, AND THAT'S WHAT OUR --
THE JOB OF -- LIKE THE GROUP
THAT I'M IN, THE MISSISSIPPI
RIVERS TOWNS AND CO-SHARES OF
THIS GROUP, ONE OF THE THINGS
WE'RE DOING AND WE'RE TRYING TO
WORK TOWARDS IS MAKE SURE THAT
THE STATE LEGISLATURES ARE, OUR
FEDERAL REPRESENTATIVES
UNDERSTAND JUST HOW SIGNIFICANT
AND IMPORTANT IT IS.
SO IF THERE IS HESITATION, THEN
WE CAN TRY TO CONVINCE THEM
OTHERWISE.
>> STILL, YOU AT THIS JUNCTURE,
SEEM REALLY FIRED UP ABOUT THIS.
>> OH, YEAH.
ARE YOU KIDDING?
THIS IS SIGNIFICANT.
THE CITY OF LACROSSE, AND
VIRTUALLY EVERY CITY ALONG THE
MISSISSIPPI RIVER, THE PAST AND
THE CURRENT, THE PRESENT AND THE
FUTURE, ALL OF IT IS -- ALL OF
IT IS -- IS BASICALLY FORMED BY
THE RIVER WITH OUR RELATIONSHIP
TO THE RIVER.
THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER, IT IS A
SIGNIFICANT PART OF OUR
COMMUNITY, WHO WE ARE, WHO WE'RE
GOING TO BE IN THE FUTURE.
WE NEED TO PROTECT THIS AS A
RESOURCE AND, YOU KNOW, FOR ME
AND FOR MY CHILDREN FOR
GENERATIONS TO COME.
I THINK IT IS JUST -- IT IS
CRITICAL FOR OUR CITY, FOR ALL
OF THE CITIES THAT -- UP AND
DOWN THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER FROM
BEMIDJI TO MOUTH, WE ARE -- IT
IS PROFOUNDLY NECESSARY FOR US
TO PROTECT THIS AS NOT ONLY A
RESOURCE FOR OUR COMMUNITIES,
BUT AS A NATURAL RESOURCE AS
WELL.
>> WE LEAVE IT THERE MAYOR
REYNOLDS, THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> EXPERTS SAY SUMMERS IN
WISCONSIN HAVE GOTTEN ABOUT TWO
DEGREES WEST OREM WARMER SINCE 1960 WHICH
HAS WREAKED HAVOC ON WILDLIFE,
BUT HOTTER SUMMERS AREN'T THE
ONLY REASON WHY WILD RICE IS
FACING CHALLENGES.
"HERE & NOW" ROTOR, NATHAN REPORTER, NATHAN
DENZIN, HAS THIS STORY.
>> HOPEFULLY IN MY LIFETIME I'LL
SEE IT COME BACK.
MY GRANDCHILDREN, MY CHILDREN,
THEY'LL HAVE THAT.
>> Reporter: AS SUMMER DRIFTS
INTO FALL AND THE LEAVES CHANGE,
NATIVE PEOPLE IN NORTHERN
WISCONSIN HAVE ONE THING ON
THEIR MIND: WILD RULES.
BUT DUE TO CLIMATE CHANGE AND
OTHER HUMAN CAUSES, WILD RICE IS
BECOMING LESS APUN.
>> WE USED TO HAVE CLOSE TO 75
BODIES OF WATER WITH WILD RICE
ON IT.
NOW WE ONLY HAVE TWO RIVERS.
>> WILD RICE, OR MANOOMIN IN
OJIBWE, GROWS IN SHALLOW STREAMS
AND LAKES ACROSS THE GREAT LAKES
REGION.
MANOOMIN IS EXTREMELY
NUTRITIOUS, DELICIOUS, AND
FUNDAMENTAL TO HOW NATIVE PEOPLE
IN THIS AREA LIVE.
>> THIS IS A MAP FROM 1911.
>> Reporter: RECORDS SHOW OVER
225 ACRES OF WILD RICE IN THE
Lac du FLAMBEAU AREA.
BUT TODAY, THAT NUMBER IS CLOSER
TO 100.
JOE GRAVEEN IS THE WILD RICE
TECHNICIAN FOR THE Lac du
FLAMBEAU TRIBE.
HE SAYS MANOOMIN IS THE REASON
NATIVE PEOPLE MIGRATED TO TO THE
REGION.
>> PROPHECIES TOLD US TO GO TO
WHERE THE FOOD GROWS IN THE
WATER, WHICH IS WILD RICE,
MANOOMIN.
>> THAT WAS OVER 2,500 YEARS
AGO, AND NATIVE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN
HARVESTING WILD RICE EVER SINCE.
BEFORE RICERS CAN ROAST AND
THRASH THE SEED, ENVIRONMENTAL
FACTORS HAVE TO BE RIGHT FOR THE
SEED TO GROW.
>> IT NEEDS HARSH WINTERS WILL
ICE.
>> Ph.D. STUDENT AT THE
UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA WORKS
WITH GRAVEEN AND THE TRIBE TO
STUDY WILD RICE AND WHY IT MIGHT
BE DISAPPEARING.
SHE SAYS THAT WINTER IS WHEN MAN
ANYONE FACES ITS -- MANOOMIN
FACES ITS FIRST.
>> WILD RICE NEEDS A
LONG-LASTING FREEZE THAT TURNS
OVER NUTRIENTS ON THE ICE BED.
SHORTER WINTERS MEANS THAT
DOESN'T HAPPEN AS MUCH.
AFTER WINTER, WILD RICE NEEDS
SHALLOW WATER TO GERMINATE.
HOWEVER, DAMS, CULVERTS AND
OTHER INTERVENTIONS OVER THE
LAST TWO CENTURIES HAVE RAISED
WATER LEVELS TOO HIGH FOR THE
PLANT TO GROW.
>> I HAVE DOCUMENTS THAT SHOWS
WHERE THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT BROUGHT IN HUNDREDS
AND HUNDREDS OF ACRES OF WILD
RICE.
NOT EVEN 12 MILES FROM HERE.
>> Reporter: BY AUGUST OR
SEPTEMBER, IF THE RICE WAS ABLE
TO SURVIVE, IT'S READY TO BE
HARVESTED.
THAT'S WHEN PEOPLE, LIKE GREG
BISKAKONE JOHNSON AND HIS
PARTNER, ALEXANDRIA SULAINIS GO
OUT.
>> BEING OJIBWE, YOU SHOULD
EITHER USE IT, EAT IT, HARVEST
IT, OR SHARE IT.
>> WHEN IT'S TIME TO HARVEST
MANOOMIN, EVERYTHING STOPS AND
WE GO OUT RACING.
>> CULTURALLY EDUCATOR HAS BEEN
RACING FOR MOST OF HIS LIFE.
SULAINIS IS THE OWNER OF A
DESIGN COLLECTIVE AND ORIGINALLY
FROM A TRIBE IN MICHIGAN WHERE
RICE BEDS HAVE ALL BUT
DISAPPEARED.
HE PUSHES THE PAIR THROUGH
DELICATE RICE BEDS WITH A LARGE
POLE, CAREFUL NOT TO
ACCIDENTALLY DESTROY ANY STALKS.
MANMANOOMIN NEEDS A VERY PARTICULAR
ENVIRONMENT TO THRIVE.
WAKES FROM BOATS CAN HURT THE
RICE.
IT RIBBON LARGE ENOUGH TO STOP
THE RICE FROM GROWING IN THE
FIRST PLACE.
>> THAT MEANS LESS FOOD FOR ME
AND MY FAMILY, MY TRIBE.
>> IT'S A SHAME TO SEE THINGS IN
SUCH DECLINE FOR SUCH SELFISH
REASONS.
>> AND THE PLANT FACES DOZENS OF
OTHER THREATS, INCLUDING
INVASIVE SPECIES, WATER
COLLUSION AND SEVERE STORMS.
>> BECAUSE IT'S IMPACTED BY SO
MANY DIFFERENT FACTORS, IT CAN
SHOW US WHAT'S HAPPENING AND BE
A SIGNPOST OF OUR ENVIRONMENT.
>> WHEN YOU MESS WITH THE
NATURAL WAY OF THINGS, THERE'S
ALWAYS GOING TO BE CONSEQUENCES
THAT YOU CAN'T PREDICT.
>> IT'S ONLY GOING TO
PROGRESSIVELY GET WORSE AND
WORSE, AND SO OUR CHILDREN AND
OUR GRANDCHILDREN ARE GOING TO
INHERIT OUR MESS, OUR MESS THAT
WE MADE HERE.
>> GRAVEEN SAYS THAT FOR THE
LAST FEW YEARS, HE HAS BEEN
WORKING WITH THE WISCONSIN DNR
AND THE FISH & WILDLIFE SERVICE
TO SECURE PROTECTIONS FOR
MANOOMIN, WHICH WOULD AT LEAST
INSULATE IT FROM BOATS AND DAMS.
>> YOU CAN'T JUST SIT BACK AND
SAY NOTHING, THAT'S HOW
IMPORTANT IT IS.
>> Reporter: UNTIL MEANINGFUL
CLIMATE ACTION OR OTHER
INTERVENTIONS ARE MUTT IN PLACE,
MANOOMIN IS LIKELY TO CONTINUE
ITS KLEIN.
>> WE HAVE TO TELL OUR CHILDREN,
THAT'S NOT HOW IT SHOULD BE IN
THE FUTURE.
YOU GUYS DESERVE BETTER.
>> Reporter: REPORTING FOR
"HERE & NOW," I'M NATHAN DENZIN
IN Lac du FLAMBEAU.
>> STARTING NEXT WEEK, WE'RE
BRINGING YOU SPECIAL REPORTING
ON THE EXPERIENCE OF BLACK
PEOPLE IN WISCONSIN THROUGH THE
GENERATIONS.
>> I'M NATHAN DENZIN.
JOIN US AS PBS WISCONSIN NEWS
EMBARKS ON SPECIAL COVERAGE,
WISCONSIN IN BLACK AND WHITE, A
LOOK BACK AND A LOOK AHEAD AT
RACIAL JUSTICE.
A ONE-HOUR SPECIAL IN A SERIES
OF REPORTS STARTING NEXT WEEK.
>> THE PREMIER OF WISCONSIN IN
BLACK AND WHITE NEXT MONDAY AT
8:00 FOLLOWED BY WEEKLY SPECIAL
REPORTS ON "HERE & NOW."
FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER
ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN, VISIT
OUR WEBSITE AT PBS WISCONSIN
DOT-ORG AND THEN CLICK ON THE
NEWS TAB.
THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.
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RIVERSIDE CAPTIONING COMPANY.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE & NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.