>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A
PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> STATE SUPREME COURT
ADVERTISEMENTS SATURATE THE
AIRWAVES.
NEW VACCINE REQUIREMENTS GET
STALLED IN A LEGISLATIVE
COMMITTEE, AND OFFICIALS WORK TO
ADDRESS CHILD LABOR VIOLATIONS.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON HERE AND NOW, SUPREME
COURT CANDIDATES APPRAISE
PREVIOUS DECISIONS BY THE HIGH
COURT.
A PEDIATRICIAN IMPARTS THE
CONSEQUENCE OF DECLINING VACCINE
RATES AND WEAKENED MANDATES.
LAWMAKERS AND THE DEPARTMENT OF
LABOR TARGET UNDERAGE WORKER
VIOLATIONS, AND WE SPEAK WITH
THE AUTHOR OF ANOTHER COMPLAINT
AGAINST FORMER SPECIAL COUNCIL
MICHAEL GABLEMAN.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR MARCH
10th.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.
>> THE FIELD FOR THE UPCOMING
SUPREME COURT ELECTION HAS BEEN
NARROWED DOWN TO TWO CANDIDATES,
AND THEY ARE A STUDY IN
CONTRASTS.
ONE OF THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCES
IS HOW THEY VIEW PAST DECISIONS
BY THE COURT.
OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS,
"HERE AND NOW" POLITICAL
REPORTER ZAC SCHULTZ WILL TAKE
US THROUGH SOME OF THE MOST
SIGNIFICANT CASES OF THE PAST
FEW YEARS AND SHOW US WHETHER
THESE CANDIDATES AGREED WITH THE
DECISIONS.
TONIGHT, WE LOOK AT THE ISSUE OF
REDISTRICTING.
>> ON APRIL 4th, VOTERS WILL
CHOOSE BETWEEN JANET
PROTASIEWICZ AND DANIEL KELLY
AND DETERMINE THE FUTURE
IDEOLOGICAL BALANCE OF THE
WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT.
BUT THAT SAME ELECTION WILL
DETERMINE WHETHER THE COURT WILL
LOOK BACKWARDS AS WELL.
>> SO THAT'S WHEN I SAY, YES,
THOSE MAPS ARE RIGGED.
>> PROTASIEWICZ HAS MADE CLEAR
SHE BELIEVES WISCONSIN'S
LEGISLATIVE MAPS ARE
GERRYMANDERED IN FAVOR OF
REPUBLICANS AND SAID THE
WISCONSIN SUPREME COURT ERRED
TWICE ON ITS PATH TO APPROVING
THOSE MAPS.
THE FIRST ERROR CAME IN 2021
WHEN COURT'S CONSERVATIVE
MAJORITY ANNOUNCED THEY WOULD
NOT DRAW NEW LEGISLATIVE
BOUNDARIES BUT WOULD INSTEAD
CHOOSE FROM MAPS SUBMITTED BY
GOVERNOR TONY EVERS AND THE
REPUBLICAN LEGISLATURE.
THE BEST MAP, ACCORDING TO THE
COURT, WAS ONE THAT KEPT THE NEW
BOUNDARIES AS CLOSE TO THE
CURRENT BOUNDARIES AS POSSIBLE
SO IS TO HAVE THE FEWEST NUMBER
OF VOTERS SWITCH LEGISLATIVE
DISTRICTS.
IT WAS CALLED THE LEAST CHANGED
METHODOLOGY, A NEW PRECEDENT
INVENTED BY THE COURT.
>> THERE'S NO LEGAL PRECEDENT.
THERE'S NOTHING IN THE
CONSTITUTION.
THERE'S NOTHING IN CASE LAW.
YOU GET THIS LEAST CHANGE RULE
THAT, QUITE FRANKLY, IF YOU TALK
TO AN UNEDUCATED VOTER ABOUT IT,
THEY MIGHT SAY, "YOU KNOW, IT
SOUNDS LIKE IT KIND OF MAKES
SENSE, KIND OF ON ITS FACE MAKES
SENSE, KEEPING THE DISTRICTS
TOGETHER."
>> HOWEVER, LEAST CHANGE ONLY
EXPECTED IN THE ADVANTAGE
REPUBLICANS DREW FOR THEMSELVES
10 YEARS AGO.
EVEN THE LEAST CHANGE MAP
SUBMITTED BY GOVERNOR EVERS
STILL CREATED DISTRICTS THAT
ENSURED REPUBLICAN MAJORITY IN
THE LEGISLATURE.
>> THIS IS WHERE I SAY DEMOCRACY
IS ON THE LINE.
YOU LOOK AT THE FACT THAT THE
MAPS WERE, YOU KNOW, 10 YEARS
AGO, A PROBLEM.
I WOULD SAY THAT THE MAPS ARE A
BIGGER PROBLEM.
YOU'LL HEAR PEOPLE ARGUE THAT
THE REPUBLICANS USED VERY, VERY
SOPHISTICATED COMPUTER
TECHNOLOGY TO DRAW THOSE MAPS
AND TO DRAW THOSE MAPS IN A WAY
THAT ARE ABSOLUTELY THE MOST
FAVORABLE TO THEM, SO THAT'S
WHEN I SAY, YES, THOSE MAPS ARE
RIGGED.
>> DANIEL KELLY SERVED ON THE
COURT FROM 2016 UNTIL HE LOST
RE-ELECTION IN 2020 AND WAS NOT
ON THE BENCH WHEN THE COURT
DECIDED THE REDISTRICTING CASE.
HOWEVER, HE SAYS THEIR DECISION
MAKES SENSE.
>> AND SO THE PHRASE, LEAST
CHANGE, IS MEANT TO ENCOMPASS
THE IDEA THAT WE TAKE THE MAPS
AS THEY'RE WRITTEN AND THEN WE
LOOK FOR THE LEGAL ERRORS AND WE
FIX THE LEGAL ERRORS AND WE
LEAVE EVERYTHING ELSE THE SAME.
>> PAST REDISTRICTING CASES WERE
DECIDED IN FEDERAL COURT BUT
REPUBLICANS WANTED THIS CASE
BEFORE THE WISCONSIN SUPREME
COURT.
KELLY SAYS THE IDEA OF FAIRNESS
IN THE MAPS IS A POLITICAL
QUESTION, SOMETHING THE COURT
MUST AVOID.
>> THE MEMBERS OF THIS COURT
HAVE NOT BEEN ENTRUSTED WITH
MAKING POLITICAL DECISIONS, ONLY
LEGAL DECISIONS.
AND SO THEIR JOB IS JUST TO
ADDRESS THOSE LEGAL
IMPERFECTIONS IN THAT MAP, AND
WHEN THEY'RE DONE ADDRESSING
THOSE, IT IS TO STEP ASIDE AND
THEN WAIT FOR THE PEOPLE OF
WISCONSIN TO WORK ON THEIR
LEGISLATURE AND THEIR GOVERNOR
TO GET TO A MAP THAT IS
POLITICALLY ACCEPTABLE TO THE
STATE.
>> IN THE SPRING OF 2022, USING
THE LEAST CHANGE CRITERIA,
JUSTICE BRIAN HAGEDORN JOINS THE
THREE LIBERALS ON THE COURT TO
CHOOSE TONE TO THE EAST OF TO THE EAST OF TONY EVERS MAPS WHICH
INCLUDED AN ADDITIONAL ASSEMBLY
SEAT IN THE MILWAUKEE AREA,
SOMETHING THEY ARGUED WAS
REQUIRED UNDER THE VOTING RIGHTS
ACT.
REPUBLICANS APPEALED TO THE
UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT,
WHICH STRUCK DOWN THE MAPS,
SAYING THERE WASN'T ENOUGH
EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT INVOKING THE
V.R.A.
HAGEDORN DISWHROIND THE
CONSERVATIVES IN PICKING THE
REPUBLICAN DRAWN MAPS WHICH
PROTASIEWICZ SAYS WAS THE
COURT'S SECOND MAJOR ERROR AND
SOMETHING SHE EXPECTS THE COURT
TO REVISIT IF SHE WINS.
>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS IN
THE DISSENT FROM THE SUPREME
COURT REGARDING REDISTRICTING
CASE, ESPECIALLY AFTER IT CAME
BACK FROM THE SUPREME COURT, WAS
THEY FELT THAT THE COURT COULD
HOLD A TRIAL TO ACTUALLY
DETERMINE WHETHER IT WAS
WARRANTED TO ADD AN ADDITIONAL
DISTRICT UNDER THE VOTING RIGHTS
ACT IN MILWAUKEE OR NOT.
IS THAT AN ISSUE YOU WOULD
EXPECT TO COME BACK BEFORE THE
COURT GIVEN THAT THE DISSENT
ALMOST ENVISIONED IT?
>> I WOULD THINK SO.
I WOULD THINK SO.
>> REPORTING FROM MADISON, I'M
ZAC SCHULTZ FOR "HERE AND NOW."
>> A FEDERAL JUDGE IN MADISON
HAS DENIED THE REQUEST OF
NON-TRIBAL RESIDENTS ON THE
RESERVATION TO REMOVE BARRICADES
BLOCKING ROADS THAT ACCESS THEIR
PROPERTIES.
THE ROADS HAVE BEEN BLOCKED TO
MORE THAN 50 HOMES SINCE LATE
JANUARY OVER AN EASEMENT
DISPUTE.
THE JUDGE GAVE THE HOMEOWNERS
UNTIL NEXT TUESDAY TO EXPLAIN
UNDER WHAT JURISDICTIONAL
AUTHORITY THE COURT COULD ISSUE
SUCH A TEMPORARY RESTRAINING
ORDER.
TRIBAL PRESIDENT SAID, QUOTE, WE
FEEL FOR THE IMPACTED PROPERTY
OWNERS AND HOPE THIS RULING
ENCOURAGES ALL PROPERTY OWNERS
TO PRESS FOR IMMEDIATE ACTION BY
THE TOWN, THE TITLE INSURANCE
COMPANIES, AND THE BUREAU OF
INDIAN AFFAIRS TO RESOLVE THIS
MATTER.
>>> AT THE CAPITOL THIS WEEK,
THE REPUBLICAN LED RULES
COMMITTEE HEARD TESTIMONY ABOUT
UPDATED IMMUNIZATION
REQUIREMENTS FOR CHILDREN WHO
ATTEND SCHOOL AND DAYCARE.
AMONG THE UPDATES, THE
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH SERVICES
CHANGED OR ADDED RULES FOR
VACCINES THAT PREVENT MENINGITIS
AND CHICKENPOX.
OFFICIALS TESTIFYING WERE MET
WITH HOSTILITY FROM SOME
COMMITTEE MEMBERS WANTING TO
REHASH MANDATES MADE DURING THE
COVID-19 PANDEMIC.
>> SO WHEN WE LOOK AT THAT PAST
HISTORY, AND A NUMBER OF THINGS
THAT WERE JUST FLAT OUT WRONG
AND KIDS HAVE BEEN HARMED
BECAUSE OF THE SCHOOL
SHUT-DOWNS, HOW DO WE TRUST YOU,
AND HONEST TO GOD, THAT MADE ME
SO ANGRY BACK THEN, AND EVEN
NOW, I'LL BE HONEST, WHEN I SEE
YOU, I REFER TO YOU AS
WISCONSIN'S DR. FAUCI.
>> TO UNDERSTAND MORE ABOUT
THESE VACCINE CHANGES, WE TURN
TO DR. DeMURI AT UW HEALTH, A
PEDIATRICIAN.
THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US,
DOCTOR.
>> MY PLEASURE TO BE HERE.
>> STATE HEALTH DEPARTMENT
CANNOT REQUIRE A MENINGITIS
VACCINE IN THE UP SEVENTH GRADE
AND A BOOSTER IN THE 12th
GRADE.
WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THAT AS
AN INFECTIOUS DISEASE DOCTOR?
>> WELL, IT'S QUITE CONCERNING.
WE KNOW THESE ARE SAFE VACCINES.
THESE TWO ILLNESSES CAN BE
DEVASTATING.
MENINGITIS, OR MORE
APPROPRIATELY, MENINGOCOCCAL
DISEASE, CAN RESULT IN DEATH,
CAN RESULT IN AMPUTATION OF THE
LIMBS AND, YOU KNOW, ALL OF US
IN INFECTIOUS DISEASE HAVE SEEN
THAT AS PART OF OUR CAREER.
KNOWING THERE'S A WAY TO PREVENT
THIS AND MAKE OUR SCHOOLS SAFE
AND KEEP OUR SCHOOLS SAFE IN
THIS, IT'S REALLY DISHEARTENING
TO HEAR THIS.
>> HOW CONTAGIOUS, ALSO, IS
MENINGITIS?
>> IT'S QUITE CONTAGIOUS.
I BELIEVE THERE'S AN OUTBREAK
RIGHT NOW IN VIRGINIA.
WE'VE HAD OUTBREAKS IN
WISCONSIN.
IT CAN GO THROUGH UNIVERSITIES
AND COLLEGE CAMPUSES, BARRACKS
AND MILITARY INSTALLATIONS, SO
IT'S ONE OF THOSE VERY TIELY
CONTAGIOUS, HIGHLY INFECTIOUS
DISEASES.
>> DO MOST FAMILIES GO AHEAD AND
GET IT REGARDLESS OF KIND OF
WHAT THE RULES ARE?
ARE PEDIATRICIANS RECOMMENDING
IT?
>> IT'S BEEN STRONGLY RECOMMEND
FOR QUITE SOME TIME NOW AND MOST
FAMILIES, FORTUNATELY, DO GO
AHEAD AND GET IT, ALTHOUGH
THERE'S NOT QUITE AS MUCH
AWARENESS OF THIS VACCINE AND
SOME OF THE OR VACCINES.
WE ALSO KNOW THAT SCHOOL
REQUIREMENTS INCREASE AND
IMPROVE OUR IMMUNIZATION RATES
IN COMMUNITIES.
THOSE STATES THAT HAVE THE MOST
ROBUST SCHOOL REQUIREMENTS HAVE
THE HIGHEST IMMUNIZATION RATES.
AND HERE, EVEN IN WISCONSIN,
WE'VE SEEN WHEN WE IMPLEMENT
THIS RULE FOR SCHOOLS, OUR
IMMUNIZATION RATES GO UP AND THE
DISEASE RATES GO DOWN.
>> SO THE LEGISLATURE ALSO
REMOVED A NEW REQUIREMENT THAT
HEALTHCARE PROVIDER CONFIRMED
THAT A CHILD HAD CHICKENPOX TO
NOT HAVE TO HAVE THE VACCINATION
AND IT REVERTS BACK TO KIND OF
THE CURRENT RULE WHERE A PARENT
CAN COME IN AND SAY, OH, YES, MY
CHILD HAD CHICKENPOX AND SO I'D
LIKE THE TO BE EXEMPT FROM
HAVING TO PROVE THAT
VACCINATION.
IS THAT ENOUGH IN YOUR MIND TO
HAVE PARENTS BE ABLE TO ATTEST
TO THAT?
>> IT'S NOT.
I THINK THIS WAS A GOOD RULE
CHANGE.
IT'S BEEN MY EXPERIENCE THAT
IT'S BECOME VERY DIFFICULT FOR
PARENTS TO DIAGNOSE CHICKENPOX.
EVEN YOUNG PHYSICIANS SOMETIMES
HAVE TROUBLE DOING IT.
OF THOSE THAT WERE AROUND BEFORE
1990, THE EARLY '90s WHEN THIS
VACCINE CAME OUT, HAD CERTAINLY
SEEN PLENTY OF CHICKENPOX, BUT
SINCE THAT TIME, MANY PARENTS
AND EVEN YOUNG PHYSICIANS
HAVEN'T SEEN IT AND WE NEED TO
GET SOME MORE CONFIRMING TESTING
TO DO IT.
>> DECLINING RATE OF CHILDHOOD
VACCINATIONS IN CHILDREN,
DROPPING FROM 92% IN 2020 TO
JUST UNDER 89% IN THE LAST YEAR.
HOW CONCERNING IS THIS FOR
PEDIATRICIANS?
>> WE'RE VERY CONCERNED.
AGAIN, THIS IS A DISTURBING
PHENOMENON.
IT'S CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT I
THINK PARALLELED COVID AND
MISINFORMATION THAT WAS OUT
ABOUT COVID-19 VACCINATION AND
ALSO ABOUT COVID DISEASE ITSELF.
SO SOME OF THE ANTI-SCIENCE,
MISINFORMATION THAT'S OUT THERE
HAS NOW CARRIED OVER TO OTHER
VACCINES AND THAT'S QUITE
CONCERNING FOR THE POSSIBILITY
OF NEW OUTBREAKS OF INFECTIOUS
DISEASES THAT HAVE BEEN QUIETED
FOR YEARS.
>> DO YOU SEE PATIENTS AND
FAMILIES THAT KIND OF HOLD ONTO
THAT MISINFORMATION AND DECLARE
THAT, NO, THEY DON'T WANT
VACCINES?
>> WE DO.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE DO.
THIS ATTITUDE IS CERTAINLY
BECOME MORE PREVALENT SINCE
COVID, AND IT'S SOMETHING WE TRY
TO PROVIDE INFORMATION ABOUT,
PROVIDE THE LATEST SCIENTIFIC
AND BEST SCIENTIFIC INFORMATION
WE HAVE, AND OUR EXPERIENCE.
MANY OF US, PEDIATRICIANS,
FAMILY DOCTORS IN THE COMMUNITY,
HAVE SEEN MANY OF THESE
ILLNESSES AND CAN PROVIDE THAT
EXPERIENCE TO THEIR FAMILIES.
>> STILL OUT THERE ALSO IS THE
MISINFORMATION ABOUT VACCINES
CAUSING AUTISM.
WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE ON THAT?
>> YOU KNOW, THIS HAS BEEN
DEBUNKED NOW OVER AND OVER
AGAIN.
INITIAL CONCERN WAS FOR MEASLES
VACCINE AND SOME OTHER VACCINES
AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT JUST
ISN'T SPECIFICALLY ESTABLISHED
OR PROVEN.
IN FACT, THE OPPOSITE HAS BEEN
SHOWN, THAT THERE'S NO LINK
BETWEEN VACCINES AND AUTISM.
PARENTS CAN BE VERY ASSURED OF
THAT AND VERY CONFIDENT IN THE
SAFETY OF THE VACCINES.
>> IN A BROADER SENSE, IN YOUR
MIND, SHOULD LAWMAKERS BE MAKING
DECISIONS ON CHILDHOOD VACCINES
OR SHOULD IT BE PUBLIC HEALTH
OFFICIALS?
>> IT SHOULD BE PUBLIC OFFICIALS
IN CONSULTATION WITH PHYSICIANS
AND SCIENTISTS USING THE BEST
SCIENCE WE HAVE, THE BEST
EPIDEMIOLOGY AND SCIENTIFIC
INFORMATION WE HAVE.
HERE IN WISCONSIN, OUR STATE
GOVERNMENT HAS DONE THAT, TAKEN
INPUT OF LOCAL AND NATIONAL AND
REGIONAL LEADERS IN MAKING THOSE
DECISIONS.
>> WE LEAVE IT THERE, DR. GREG
DeMURI.
THANKS VERY MUCH.
>> MY PLEASURE.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> IN NOVEMBER, WE REPORTED ON
AN INVESTIGATION INTO CHILD
LABOR VIOLATIONS BY
WISCONSIN-BASED COMPANY, PACKERS
SANITATION SERVICES.
IN FEBRUARY, THE U.S. DEPARTMENT
OF LABOR REPORTED MORE THAN 100
CHILDREN WERE WORKING ILLEGALLY
FOR THE COMPANY ACROSS EIGHT
STATES.
THE MINORS WERE WORKING
OVERNIGHT SHIFTS AS WELL AS
WORKING WITH HAZARDOUS CHEMICALS
AND DANGEROUS MEAT PROCESSING
EQUIPMENT.
THE 1.5 MILLION DOLLARS IN
PENALTIES TO BE PAID BY THE
COMPANY MAKES IT ONE OF THE
LARGEST CHILD LABOR CASES IN THE
DEPARTMENT'S HISTORY.
CHILD LABOR HAS INCREASED BY
NEARLY 70% SINCE 2018, LEADING
TO A CALL FOR INCREASED
PENALTIES AND OTHER MEASURES TO
CURB ILLEGAL CHILD LABOR.
WE GO NOW TO MICHAEL LAZZERI,
THE REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR OF
THE WAGE AND HOUR DIVISION AT
THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR.
THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> SO ACCORDING TO DATA FROM
YOUR AGENCY, WISCONSIN HAS THE
SECOND MOST CHILD LABOR
VIOLATIONS OF OUR SURROUNDING
STATES, AVERAGING ABOUT 99 PER
YEAR SINCE 2018.
ONLY MICHIGAN WAS HIGHER.
WHY HAS CHILD LABOR EXPLODED ON
THE NATIONAL LEVEL?
>> OUR FOCUS IS ALWAYS TO
IDENTIFY INSTANCES WHERE
EMPLOYERS ARE EXPLOITING
VULNERABLE WORKERS.
KIDS ARE VULNERABLE UNDER ANY
CIRCUMSTANCE.
THEY'RE FRIGHTENED TO COMPLAIN,
THEY'RE AFRAID OF LETTING THEIR
FAMILIES AND THEIR COMMUNITIES
DOWN AND, HONESTLY, THEY THEY
THEY'RE GOING TO BE IN TROUBLE,
AND THAT VULNERABILITY
TRANSLATES TO THEM BEING MORE
PRONE TO INJURIES IN THE
WORKPLACE, AND IN SETTINGS THAT
ARE ESPECIALLY DANGEROUS, LIKE A
MANUFACTURING FACILITY OR A MEAT
PROCESSING PLANT.
THOSE VULNERABILITIES ARE EVEN
FURTHER AMPLIFIED.
>> BUT WE DO KNOW THAT THE
NUMBER OF UNACCOMPANIED MINORS
ENTERING THE UNITED STATES
CLIMBED TO A HIGH OF 130,000
LAST YEAR, THREE TIMES WHAT IT
WAS FIVE YEARS EARLIER.
IS THAT A DEM GRAPHIC OF
CHILDREN THAT IS BEING EXPLOITED
AND THE RESULT OF THESE CHILD
LABOR LAW VIOLATIONS, MIGRANTS
COMING IN?
>> WELL, ONE THING I CAN SAY IS
THAT EXPLOITATION IS
EXPLOITATION, REGARDLESS OF WHO
THE CHILD IS AND WHAT THEIR
BACKGROUND IS, AND WHEN WE ARE
LOOKING AT INVESTIGATIONS, OUR
PRIMARY PURPOSE IS TO LOOK AT
WHO THE EMPLOYER IS AND WHO THE
EMPLOYEE IS, SO WE LOOK AT IT
NOT WITH A BLIND EYE, BUT NEW
NEUTRALLY.
WE DON'T ASK QUESTIONS ABOUT
STATUS OR BACKGROUND.
WE DO DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT
THE CHILD IS IN A SAFE
ENVIRONMENT AND WE ARE TRAINED
TO IDENTIFY INSTANCES OF
TRAFFICLING, IF THAT'S
APPROPRIATE.
HOWEVER, IT'S NOT OUR PRIMARY
PURPOSE.
WE INVESTIGATE THE CHILD LABOR
STANDARDS WITH THE FAIR LABOR
STANDARDS ACT AND THAT ACT
DEFINES THE EMPLOYEE AND THE
EMPLOYER WITHOUT REGARD TO
STATUS OR BACKGROUND.
>> IN YOUR MIND, COULD THE
NUMBER OF VIOLATIONS ACTUALLY BE
UNDERCOUNTED?
>> I HAVE NO DOUBT.
ACROSS 10 STATES IN THE MIDWEST,
WE HAVE LESS THAN 150
INVESTIGATORS THAT ARE COVERING
HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF
EMPLOYERS OVER HUNDREDS OF
THOUSANDS OF MILES AND WE DO
EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN TO TARGET
INDUSTRIES THAT ARE MOST LIKELY
TO EMPLOY MINORS AND WE DO A
SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF OUTREACH
TO COMMUNITIES, TO EMPLOYERS, TO
SCHOOLS, AND WE RECEIVE A LOT OF
INFORMATION FROM THE PUBLIC AND
FROM THE COMMUNITY AND WE HAVE
AN OBLIGATION TO ACT ON THAT
INFORMATION VERY QUICKLY, BUT
WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH
INDUSTRIES THAT ARE BEHIND WALLS
AND FENCES, THE PUBLIC CAN'T SEE
THEM, AND THEY CAN'T SEE WHAT'S
HAPPENING INSIDE THOSE FOUR
WALLS.
AND SO IT REQUIRES A LOT MORE
WORK FOR US AND, YOU KNOW, WE
RELY ON THE PUBLIC AND WE RELY
ON EMPLOYERS AND WE DO OUR BEST
TO TARGET INVESTIGATIONS AS WELL
INTO CERTAIN INDUSTRIES WHERE WE
THINK THERE ARE GOING TO BE
KIDS, BUT WITH LESS THAN 150
INVESTIGATORS, THERE'S ONLY SO
MUCH GROUND WE CAN COVER.
>> GIVEN THE INDUSTRIAL MIX, HOW
FERTILE IS A STATE LIKE
WISCONSIN FOR CHILD LABOR
VIOLATIONS?
>> WELL, I THINK ACROSS THE
MIDWEST, THE SITUATION IS
ESPECIALLY DIRE WHEN YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT MANUFACTURING,
WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE
TYPES OF INDUSTRIES.
MEAT PROCESSING, WHERE WE WERE
JUST DOING INVESTIGATION OF
P.S.S.I., YOU KNOW, WE LOOKED
ACROSS MULTIPLE STATES, NOT JUST
ACROSS THE MIDWEST, BUT ACROSS
THE ENTIRE COUNTRY, BUT THE
GREATER CONCENTRATION OF PLANTS
THAT WE SAW WAS DEFINITELY HERE.
>> WHAT KINDS OF JOBS ARE MINORS
WORKING AND WHAT KIND OF HOURS?
>> GENERALLY, I THINK IT'S
IMPORTANT TO MAKE A DISTINCTION
BETWEEN CHILD LABOR, WHICH WE
TYPICALLY SEE, WHICH IS IN, FOR
EXAMPLE, IN FAST FOOD, WHERE
YOUR ISSUES WITH MINORS WOULD BE
KIND OF CONFINED TO HOURS
WORKED, USE OF EQUIPMENT, SO IF
THEY'RE WORKING PAST 9:00 DURING
A SCHOOL NIGHT OR DURING THE
WEEK OR THEY'RE WORKING TOO MANY
HOURS, THAT'S ONE TYPE OF
VIOLATION.
WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
MANUFACTURING AND SOME OF THESE
OTHER INDUSTRIES, NOW YOU'RE
TALKING ABOUT THE TYPES OF
EQUIPMENT THAT MINORS ARE USING,
AND SO FOR EVEN 16,
17-YEAR-OLDS, THEY'RE PROHIBITED
FROM USING OR CLEANING THINGS
LIKE A HEAD SPLITTER, BONE SAWS,
EQUIPMENT THAT COULD CAUSE
SERIOUS INJURY, THEY CAN'T
USE -- THEY CAN'T BE DOING
CONSTRUCTION.
ROOFING.
THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.
SO I THINK IT JUST DEPENDS ON
WHICH TYPE OF CHILD LABOR WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT, THE TYPE THAT WE
TYPICALLY SEE OR THE MORE
RECENTLY, WHICH IS CONFINED TO
VERY DANGEROUS TYPES OF WORK.
>> WHAT DO YOU TO COMPANIES
EMPLOYING CHILDREN IN VIOLATION
OF THE LAW?
>> WELL, IT'S THEIR
RESPONSIBILITY AS AN EMPLOYER
WHEN THEY'RE HIRING OR EVEN
BRINGING IN STAFFING AGENCIES,
SO PUT WORKERS IN THEIR
FACTORIES OR IN THEIR
FACILITIES, IT'S REALLY UP TO
THEM TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY.
I MEAN, WE LOOKED AT P.S.S.I.
AND WE LOOKED AT THE TYPES OF
MINORS OR THE NUMBER OF MINORS
THAT WERE BEING EMPLOYED ACROSS
THE COUNTRY AND YOU SEE PICTURES
OF THESE KIDS AND THERE IS NO
WAY A REASONABLE PERSON WOULD
LOOK AT THESE KIDS AND SAY THAT
THAT IS A 30-YEAR OLD OR
SOMEBODY WHO IS OVER 18, EVEN IN
THEIR 20s.
SO EMPLOYERS HAVE TO NOT RELY
ON, YOU KNOW -- THEY HAVE TO BE
ABLE TO SEE WHAT THESE AND BE
ABLE TO TAKE ACTION TO BE ABLE
TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE MINORS
ARE NOT BEING EMPLOYED IN
DANGEROUS WORK.
>> ALL RIGHT.
MICHAEL LAZZERI FROM THE U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF LABOR, THANK YOU
VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> LAST AUGUST, REPUBLICAN
ASSEMBLY SPEAKER FIRED MICHAEL
GABLEMAN, A FORMER SUPREME COURT
JUSTICE, FROM HIS JOB AS SPECIAL
COUNSEL IS INVESTIGATING OF THE
2020 ELECTION.
HIS WORK HAS RISEN TO NEARLY
$2.5 MILLION INCLUDING COURT
COSTS ARISING FROM LAWSUITS OVER
PUBLIC RECORDS FROM THE PROBE
AND NOW ATTORNEYS AT LAW FORWARD
HAVE FILED A 108-PAGE COMPLAINT
WITH THE OFFICE OF LAWYER
REGULATIONS SAYING GABLEMAN
VIOLATED SUPREME COURT RULES OF
PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT DURING HIS
ELECTION INVESTIGATION.
ATTORNEY JEFF MANDEL FILED THE
COMPLAINT.
THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> SO MICHAEL GABLEMAN WAS
FIRED, AS WE JUST SAID, AND
CALLED AN EMBARRASSMENT BY
SPEAKER ROBIN VOS.
ISN'T THAT ENOUGH?
WHY FILE A COMPLAINT AGAINST HIM
NOW?
>> WELL, THE GOAL HERE IS NOT TO
PILE ON.
THE GOAL IS NOT TO EMBARRASS MR. GABLEMAN.
BUT IF WE HAVE A RULE OF LAW, IF
WE HAVE A SYSTEM WHERE EVERYONE
PLAYS BY THE SAME RULES, THOSE
RULES NEED TO BE ENFORCED.
THE COMPLAINT IS AS LONG AS IT
IS BECAUSE MR. GABLEMAN BROKE SO
MANY RULES OF ETHICAL CONDUCT.
IT WAS QUITE A TASK TO CATALOG
THEM ALL.
>> SO YOU -- YOUR COMPLAINT
ALLEGES IN DETAIL HOW GABLEMAN
VIOLATED PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT
FOR AN ATTORNEY, STARTING WITH
HIS COMPETENCY.
HE'S CERTAINLY HELD HIGH OFFICE
AS A FORMER JUSTICE AND D.A.
WHY DO YOU SAY HE WAS
INCOMPETENT HERE?
>> WELL, FOR A COUPLE OF
REASONS.
FIRST, AN ATTORNEY CAN BE HIGHLY
COMPETENT AT ONE THING AND NOT
COMPETENT AT SOME OTHER AREA OF
THE LAW, AND THE ETHICAL RULES
REQUIRE ATTORNEYS TO BE MINDFUL
AND SELF-CONSCIOUS OF THIS AND
TO ACCEPT THOSE REPRESENTATIONS
THAT THEY ARE PREPARED TO CARRY
OUT.
MR. GABLEMAN, AFTER ACCEPTING
HIS CHARGE AS SPECIAL COUNSEL,
PUBLICLY STATED THAT HE KNEW
ALMOST NOTHING ABOUT ELECTION
LAW.
SO THAT IN ITSELF IS SAY
COMPETENCE ISSUE.
NOW, AN ATTORNEY MAY TAKE ON
SOMETHING WHERE THEY NEED TO
LEARN SOMETHING NEW.
WE'RE ALL CAPABLE OF LEARNING
NEW THINGS, BUT MR. GABLEMAN
THEN DID NOT UNDERTAKE THE KINDS
OF STEPS THAT YOU WOULD EXPECT
TO LEARN SOMETHING NEW.
YOU DON'T GET TO CHARGE THE
TAXPAYERS OR THE STATE OR YOUR
CLIENT FOR LEARNING THESE NEW
THINGS AND YOU HAVE TO BE
PREPARED TO DO IT.
MR. GABLEMAN SPENT THE FIRST
SEVERAL WEEKS OF HIS JOB TRYING
TO LEARN THESE THINGS AT A
PUBLIC COMPUTER TERMINAL, AT THE
NEW BERLIN PUBLIC LIBRARY.
EVEN AS HE TOLD THE PUBLIC THAT
HIS INVESTIGATION WAS GOING TO
BE HIGHLY SECURE AND SECRETIVE
AND HE NEEDED TO MAKE SURE THAT
NO ONE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING.
HE WAS DOING THIS ALL AT A
PUBLIC COMPUTER TERMINAL AND HE
WAS NOT LEARNING ELECTION LAW IN
THE WAY YOU WOULD EXPECT A
DILIGENT ATTORNEY TO DO BUT
INSTEAD WAS CONSULTING WITH
CONSPIRACY THEORISTS AND FRINGE
ACTORS TO BRING HIMSELF UP TO
DATE ON THE LATEST CRAZY
THEORIES.
>> YOU ALSO SAY THAT HE CAUSED
MALICIOUS INJURY TO THOSE LIKE
THE MAYORS THAT HE SUBPOENAED AS
PART OF HIS INVESTIGATION.
HOW SO?
>> WELL, HE ASKED A JUDGE IN
WAUKESHA COUNTY TO THROW THE
MAYORS OF GREEN BAY AND MADISON
úIN JAIL AND HE DID SO ON
ENTIRELY FALSE PRETENSES, THAT
HE KNEW WERE FALSE, AND HE DID
SO ALSO ASKING THE JUDGE TO DO
IT WITHOUT EVEN HEARING FROM THE
DEFENDANTS OR LETTING THOSE
MAYORS KNOW THAT HE WAS TRYING
TO DO IT.
SO HE MISREPRESENTED THE FACTS
IN THE LAW, TRIED TO HIDE WHAT
HE WAS DOING TO MAKE SURE THAT
THEY WOULDN'T GET THEIR DAY IN
COURT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES.
IT WAS ENTIRELY MALICIOUS, AND
WHEN WE POINTED THOSE FAULTS
OUT, AT NO POINT DID
MR. GABLEMAN OR ANY OF THE
ATTORNEYS WORKING WITH HIM
ATTEMPT TO FIX THAT OR CORRECT
THE RECORD.
THEY WERE DELIBERATELY LYING
ABOUT THESE PUBLIC OFFICIALS.
>> HAVE ATTORNEYS INVOLVED IN
TRYING TO UNDO THE RESULTS OF
THE 2020 ELECTION FACED
PROFESSIONAL MISCONDUCT
DISCIPLINE IN THIS WAY?
>> QUITE A FEW HAVE.
MAYOR GIULIANI HAS BEEN
SANCTIONED AND A LAWYER HERE IN
WISCONSIN, ERIC CARDOLL, WHO WAS
TIED INTO MR. GABLEMAN'S
INVESTIGATION, THOUGH HE WAS NOT
OFFICIALLY WORKING FOR THE
STATE.
MR. GABLEMAN WAS SHARING
INFORMATION AND SHARING OFFICE
SPACE WITH HIM IN WAYS THAT ARE
THEMSELVES ETHICALLY
PROBLEMATIC.
HEBREWSHE HAS BEEN REFERRED IN
WASHINGTON, D.C. BECAUSE A CASE
HE FILED HAS BEEN SO BASELESS.
>> WHY, IN YOUR MIND, IS IT
IMPORTANT TO FILE THESE KINDS OF
THINGS?
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE
COURTS AND WE USE OUR LAWS TO
RESOLVE SERIOUS DISPUTES, AND
THAT'S AN IMPORTANT THING, BUT
WHEN PEOPLE BREAK THE BASIC
RULES AND THEY BRING CASES THAT
ARE FRIVOLOUS AND THAT THEY KNOW
ARE FRIVOLOUS WHEN THEY'RE
SEEKING TO ADVANCE A PURELY
POLITICAL AGENDA THAT HAS NO
BASIS IN LAW, WE HAVE TO UPHOLD
THE RULES AND MAKE SURE THAT
THEY CAN'T DO IT.
OTHERWISE, WE WILL DEVOLVE INTO
CHAOS.
>> WHAT OUTCOME WOULD YOU LIKE
TO SEE FOR MICHAEL GABLEMAN
HERE?
>> I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE
OFFICE OF LAWYER REGULATION TAKE
A REALLY CAREFUL AND THOROUGH
LOOK AT THIS.
IT IS REALLY NOT FOR US TO SAY
WHAT THE ULTIMATE PUNISHMENT
SHOULD BE.
THAT'S FOR THE SUPREME COURT OF
WISCONSIN TO DECIDE.
THEY'RE THE ONES WHO PATROL THE
BAR AT THE END OF THE DAY.
THEY'RE THE COPS ON THE BEAT FOR
THIS.
BUT MY HOPE IS THAT THE OFFICE
OF LAWYER REGULATION WILL
THOROUGHLY INVESTIGATE THIS AND
GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS AND
TREAT MR. GABLEMAN THE SAME WAY
THEY WOULD TREAT ANY OTHER
LAWYER IN THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN.
>> AND SO IT DOESN'T CONSTITUTE
ANY KIND OF CONFLICT OF INTEREST
GIVING THAT HE WAS A SUPREME
COURT JUSTICE GIVEN IT IS AN ARM
OF THE SUPREME COURT?
>> REST OF THE SUPREME COURT DID
DEAL WITH.
IT'S COMPLICATED AND MAYBE
UNCOMFORTABLE, BUT IT'S PART OF
THEIR JOB.
>> JEFFREY MANDEL, THANK YOU
VERY MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> 9:00 GABLEMAN IS NOW SENIOR
COUNSEL AT THE THOMAS MOORE
SOCIETY, A CONSERVATIVE PUBLIC
INTEREST LAW FIRM BASED IN
CHICAGO.
FOR MORE ON THIS AND OTHER
ISSUES FACING WISCONSIN, VISIT
OR WEBSITE AT WITNESS WISCONSIN
DOT-ORG AND THEN CLICK ON THE
NEWS PROGRAM.
THAT'S OUR PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT,
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.