>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A
PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> DUELING INVESTIGATIONS INTO
THE 2020 ELECTION IN WISCONSIN
IS CREATING A RIFT BETWEEN
REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS, EVEN AS
GOVERNOR TONY EVERS VETOES SIX
REPUBLICAN BACKED ELECTIONS
BILLS.
A HEATED DNR MEETING TO SET A
HIGHER STATEWIDE WOLF HARVEST.
AND DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN RON
KIND SAYS HE'S THROWING IN THE
TOWEL.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW,"
MARQUETTE POLL DIRECTOR PONDERS
THE POLITICAL FUTURE OF RON
KIND'S DISTRICT AND SHARES HIS
LATEST STATEWIDE SURVEY RESULTS.
ONGOING REPUBLICAN EFFORTS TO
INVESTIGATE THE 2020 ELECTION,
AND THE HUNT FOR CONSENSUS ON
THE DNR BOARD OVER WOLVES IN
WISCONSIN.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR
AUGUST 13.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.
>> THIS WILL BE MY LAST TERM IN
OFFICE.
I WILL NOT SEEK RE-ELECTION AS
REPRESENTATIVE OF THIS
CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT COME NEXT
YEAR.
THE TRUTH IS, I'VE RUN OUT OF
GAS.
>> RON KIND'S DECISION TO NOT
SEEK RE-ELECTION IN HIS THIRD
CONGRESSIONAL DISTRICT RAISES
THE POLITICAL STAKES FOR
DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ALIKE.
THE OPEN SEAT ADDS DRAMA TO THE
2022 ELECTION CYCLE THAT WILL
ALSO SEE A HOTLY CONTESTED U.S.
SENATE RACE WITH OR WITHOUT
INCUMBENT RON JOHNSON RUNNING
AGAIN.
MARQUETTE LAW SCHOOL POLL
DIRECTOR CHARLES FRANKLIN JOINS
US TO TALK ABOUT THE
IMPLICATIONS OF THAT OPEN SEAT,
AS WELL AS SHARE RESULTS FROM
HIS NEW STATEWIDE POLL.
CHARLES, VERY NICE TO SEE YOU
AGAIN.
>> THANK YOU.
GOOD TO BE BACK.
>> SO I WANTED TO START WITH THE
NEWS OF CONGRESSMAN RON KIND NOT
RUNNING FOR REELECTION WAS THE
WRITING ON THE WALL IN THAT
WISCONSIN DISTRICT FOR DEMOCRAT?
>> WELL, WHAT'S HAPPENED IS
DONALD TRUMP WON THAT DISTRICT
BOTH IN 2016 AND 2018, GOVERNOR
EVERS AND TAMMY BALDWIN WON IT
AS WELL.
SO IT'S REALLY THE MOST
COMPETITIVE SEAT IN THE STATE
RIGHT NOW, AND IT'S ONE THAT'S
BEEN MOVING IN A MORE REPUBLICAN
DIRECTION.
FOR THE DEMOCRATS, THIS IS A BIG
LOSS, TO LOSE KIND AS AN
INCUMBENT TRYING TO HOLD THAT
DISTRICT.
NOW IT WILL BE AN OPEN SEAT.
AND WITH DEMOCRATS ONLY
CROWELLING THECONTROLLING THE HOUSE BY ABOUT
FIVE SEATS, LOSING ONE LIKE THIS
ONE IS AN IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENT
FOR DEMOCRATS.
FINALLY, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT
REDISTRICTING WILL DO TO THAT
DISTRICT.
IT COULD TILT IT IN A MORE
REPUBLICAN DIRECTION AS WELL.
>> NOW THE MAN WHO NARROWLY LOST
TO KIND IN THE LAST ELECTION,
DEREK VAN ORDEN, WAS JUST
ENDORSED BY DONALD TRUMP.
IS THAT KIND OF THE WAY OF THE
THIRD IN YOUR MIND?
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S A MIXED
PICTURE.
I THINK CERTAINLY THE THIRD
VOTED FOR TRUMP BY SMALL MARGINS
BUT CONSISTENT MARGINS TWICE,
AND THE ROLE OF THE TRUMP WING
OF THE PARTY WITHIN THE GOP IS A
BIG DEAL.
AND CERTAINLY DEVELOPING THROUGH
THE 2022 ELECTION.
ON THE OTHER HAND, THE DISTRICT
HAS SOME SOLID DEMOCRATIC AREAS
LIKE LACROSSE, AND SO HOW THAT
DEVELOPS COULD ADVANTAGE
DEMOCRATS IN TRYING TO SORT OF
REPLICATE THE SUCCESSES IN 2018
RATHER THAN THE LOSSES IN THE
DISTRICT AT THE PRESIDENTIAL
LEVEL IN 2020.
>> THAT WOULD BE THEIR HOPE.
NOW, SWINGING INTO YOUR POLLING,
RESULTS SHOW JOE BIDEN'S
APPROVAL AT 49%, DISAPPROVAL 46%
OF THOSE YOU SUR VAIFED SURVEYED.
THAT COMPARES TO TONY EVERS'
NUMBERS, 50% APPROVE, 43%
DISAPPROVE.
THOSE NUMBERS DESPITE THE
HAMMERING THAT TONY EVERS GETS
FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE
AISLE.
WHAT IS LEADING TO THAT APPROVAL
NUMBER?
>> EVERS, FIRST OF ALL, DIDN'T
CHANGE AT ALL FROM OUR LAST
POLL, WHICH WAS IN OCTOBER OF
2020, WHEN IT WAS AT 50-43 THEN
AS WELL.
SO NO SHIFT FOR HIM.
WITH BOTH BIDEN AND EVERS, THEY
HAVE PRETTY STRONG APPROVAL
NUMBERS ON THEIR HANDLING OF THE
CORONAVIRUS, WITH EVERS, IT'S 54
TO 39, AND THAT'S AN IMPROVEMENT
FROM OCTOBER, WITH BIDEN, OF
COURSE, HE HADN'T BEEN
PRESIDENT, BEFORE IN OUR
POLLING, BUT HIS CORONAVIRUS
APPROVAL IS 54 TO 42.
SO THE HANDLING OF CORONAVIRUS
AS MUCH AS IT IS A DIVISIVE
PARTISAN ISSUE HAS NEVERTHELESS
HELPED BOTH EVERS AND BIDEN.
>> LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT RON
JOHNSON'S NUMBER.
POLL NUMBERS SHOW REPUBLICAN
U.S. SENATOR RON JOHNSON IS
VIEWED FAVORABLY BY 35 35% OF YOUR
RESPONDENTS, UNFAVORABLY 42%.
NOW BEING UNDERWATER ISN'T GREAT
FOR A POLITICIAN WHO HASN'T
ANNOUNCED WHETHER HE'LL RUN FOR
RE-ELECTION, SO WHAT DO YOU
THINK HE'LL DECIDE ABOUT RUNNING
AGAIN?
>> OH, I'M SURE NOT GOING TO TRY
TO FORECAST WHAT HE'LL DECIDE.
I'M WAITING ALONG WITH EVERYBODY
ELSE ON THAT.
THIS IS SOME SLIPPAGE FROM
OCTOBER, WHEN HE WAS AT 38-36, A
NET TWO POINTS POSITIVE VERSUS A
NET SEVEN POINTS NEGATIVE THIS
TIME.
THIS IS THE THIRD WORST
FAVORABILITY FOR SENATOR JOHNSON
BUT HIS TWO WORST RATINGS WERE
IN 2015, 16 MONTHS BEFORE HE RAN
SUCCESSFULLY FOR RE-ELECTION IN
2016.
SO I THINK THESE NUMBERS ARE
WORTH WATCHING AND SEE HOW
TREND, BUT IN 2015 TO 2016, THEY
TRENDED CONSISTENTLY UP THROUGH
THE ELECTION VICTORY.
I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD LOOK AT
THESE NUMBERS AND SAY THEY'RE IN
ANY WAY DEFINITIVE FOR WHAT THE
TWEP 222022 ELECTION OUTCOME MIGHT BE
IF HE DECIDES TO RUN.
>> SO DEMOCRATIC SENATOR TAMMY
BALDWIN'S NUMBERS ARE CLOSE, BUT
AT LEAST RIGHT SIDE UP.
YOUR SURVEY SHOWS THAT SHE HAS A
21% NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE NO
OPINION OF HER, LIKEWISE WITH
SENATOR JOHNSON, IT WAS 23%, I
THINK.
I DON'T GET THESE KINDS OF
RESULTS IN THE "NO OPINION" OR
"DON'T KNOW" NUMBERS IN THIS
CRAZY HYPERPARTISAN ERA.
>> I KNOW, AND IT COMES UP EVERY
TIME WE DO A SURVEY.
USUALLY SENATOR JOHNSON IS IN
THE HIGHER 20s OR EVEN THE LOW
30s FOR NOT RECOGNIZING HIM OR
NOT KNOWING ENOUGH TO SAY.
BALDWIN IS USUALLY IN THE MID
20s.
SO BOTH OF THEM ARE A LITTLE
MORE RECOGNIZED IN THIS SURVEY
THAN THEY OFTEN HAVE BEEN, BUT
IT'S STILL 1 IN 5 OR 1 IN
4 VOTERS WHO SAY THEY DON'T KNOW
ENOUGH TO HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT
THEIR TWO U.S. SENATORS WHO HAVE
BEEN IN OFFICE SINCE 2010 AND
2012?
SO IT IS SORT OF A STRIKING
RESULT, BUT IT'S ONE THAT'S
INCREDIBLY CONSISTENT OVER TIME.
I THINK IN ONE SENSE, THESE
FOLKS ARE OFF IN WASHINGTON OR
THEY'RE ON NATIONAL CABLE TV,
BUT MAYBE THEY'RE NOT SEEN SORT
OF DAY TO DAY IN LOCAL NEWS
COVERAGE OR THERE ARE STORIES
ABOUT THEM BUT SOMEHOW THAT JUST
DOESN'T PENETRATE TO THE PEOPLE
THAT ARE NOT VERY, VERY INTO
POLITICS.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE
COVID VACCINE STATUS.
ON THE UPTAKE OF THE COVID
VACCINE, ONCE AGAIN, A PARTISAN
SPLIT AS HAS BEEN REPORTED,
AMONG REPUBLICANS, 45% HAVE AT
LEAST ONE DOSE.
AMONG DEMOCRATS, 87%.
WHY IS THIS A PARTISAN THING?
>> WELL, THAT'S THE BIG MYSTERY,
AND THIS IS A BASIC HEALTH
ISSUE.
YOU WOULD THINK THAT THAT'S
CONSEQUENTIAL ENOUGH THAT MERE
PARTISAN POLITICS WOULDN'T
MATTER VERY MUCH.
BUT AS THE ISSUE WAS POLITICIZED
THROUGHOUT 2020, AND HAS
CONTINUED NOW WITH DEBATES OVER
MASKS OR SCHOOLS AND WHETHER
SCHOOL CHILDREN CAN OR CANNOT
WEAR MASKS, THIS ISSUE HAS JUST
PROLIFERATED.
I WILL NOTE THAT OVERALL, WE
SHOWED 68% WHO SAID THEY'VE BEEN
VACCINATED, AND THAT HAPPENS TO
BE EXACTLY WHAT THE CENTERS FOR
DISEASE CONTROL REPORTS AS THE
OVERALL RATE IN WISCONSIN FOR
PEOPLE 18 AND OVER, WHICH OF
COURSE IS WHO WE SURVEYED.
SO I THINK YOU COULD WONDER
WHETHER DEMOCRATS ARE OVERROTING
VACCINATIONS AND REPUBLICANS
UNDERREPORTING IT, BUT CERTAINLY
IN THE AGGREGATE, THESE NUMBERS
TURN OUT TO BE SPOT-ON WITH THE
CDC DATA.
SO I THINK IT'S REASONABLE TO BE
PRETTY CONVINCED THAT THIS
PARTISAN DIFFERENCE REALLY DOES
STAND UP, EVEN IF MAYBE IT NOT
QUITE AS LARGE AS WHAT THE DATA
SHOW, I'M GOING WITH THE DATA.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WELL, CHARLES FRANKLIN, THANK
YOU VERY MUCH AND THANK YOU VERY
MUCH FOR YOUR DATA.
NICE TO SEE YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>> MORE THAN NINE MONTHS AFTER
THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL RACE, THAT
ELECTION IS STILL BEING
SCRUTINIZED BY AN INCREASINGLY
VOCAL GROUP OF WISCONSIN
CONSERVATIVES.
REPORTER WILL KENNEALLY DETAILS
WHERE THE TWO COMPETING
INVESTIGATIONS STAND.
>> WE, THE PEOPLE, MUST NEVER
SURRENDER OUR RIGHT TO
SCRUTINIZE ELECTION RESULTS.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING
HERE.
>> THE DEBATE OVER HOW TO
INVESTIGATE THE 2020 ELECTION IS
CAUSING A RIFT AMONG STATE
REPUBLICANS AND HAS SPILLED OUT
ON TO THE NATIONAL STAGE.
ON ONE SIDE, ASSEMBLY SPEAKER
ROBIN VOS.
HE TAPPED FORMER SUPREME COURT
JUSTICE MICHAEL GABLEMAN TO
INVESTIGATE CLAIMS OF ELECTION
IRREGULARITIES.
ON THE OTHER SIDE --
[CHANTING USA]
>> STATE REPRESENTATIVE JANEL
BRANDTJEN, CHAIR OF THE ASSEMBLY
ELECTIONS COMMITTEE.
SHE IS THE STANDARD BEARER FOR
THE ULTRACONSERVATIVE WING OF
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT SAYS
VOS IS NOT DOING ENOUGH.
>> NOW ON THE ISSUE OF A NEED
FOR A FULL CYBER FORENSIC AUDIT,
THIS IS BEING THWARTED BY
ASSEMBLY SPEAKER ROBIN VOS.
>> LATE THIS WEEK, EVEN FORMER
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP WEIGHED
IN ON THE SPLIT.
SAYING IN A STATEMENT, QUOTE,
ALL EYES ARE ON WISCONSIN AS
THEY BEGIN THEIR ELECTION AUDIT.
HOPEFULLY REPUBLICAN SPEAKER
ROBIN VOS HAS THE INTEGRITY AND
STRENGTH WISCONSIN NEEDS TO
SUPPORT REPRESENTATIVE BRAN
BRANDTJEN'S EFFORTS.
>> WHAT WE WANT IS FOR SOMEBODY
TO LOOK AT THE MACHINES.
>> BRANDTJEN IS PUSHING FOR WHAT
SHE'S CALLING A FORENSIC AUDIT
OF THE 2020 ELECTIONS IN
WISCONSIN, AFTER VISITING
ARIZONA TO WITNESS THE REVIEW
THERE.
>> LISTEN, WHY IS THIS BETTER,
RIGHT?
>> WHILE THERE IS NO WIDELY
UNDERSTOOD DEFINITION OF
FORENSIC, SUPPORTERS SAY IT
MEANS TO BRING A HIGHER,
SCIENTIFIC BAR OF SCRUTINY TO
THE INVESTIGATION.
DEMOCRATS CALL THAT LAUGHABLE
AND SLAM THE INVESTIGATIONS.
GOVERNOR TONY EVERS CALLS THEM A
CLOWN SHOW.
BUT BRANDTJEN IS ALL IN.
>> THE CLOCK IS GETTING TIGHT
HERE AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE
THAT I'VE EXHAUSTED EVERYTHING
THAT I CAN AS CHAIR TO MAKE SURE
THAT WE CAN REBUILD CONFIDENCE
AND TRUST IN THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN'S ELECTIONS.
>> VOS DEFENDS HIS OWN
INVESTIGATION AND BROUGHT HEFT
TO IT BY HIRING GABLEMAN.
HE ALSO INVOKED A FORMAL
EXAMINATION OF THE ELECTION BY
THE LEGISLATIVE AUDIT BUREAU.
>> WE'RE ALREADY DOING A
FORENSIC AUDIT, SO JUST LIKE
PERHAPS PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS
MISINFORMED ABOUT WHAT WE'RE
ACTUALLY DOING IN WISCONSIN, I
FEEL LIKE MY COLLEAGUE
REPRESENTATIVE BRANDTJEN IS
MISFORMED ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING
IN WISCONSIN.
>> IT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE THERE
IS NO EVIDENCE OF WIDESPREAD
VOTER FRAUD IN WISCONSIN.
FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP'S
CHALLENGES TO THE ELECTION WERE
REJECTED MULTIPLE TIMES BY BOTH
STATE AND FEDERAL COURTS,
INCLUDING BY A TRUMP-APPOINTED
FEDERAL JUDGE IN MILWAUKEE.
OUT OF MORE THAN 3 MILLION VOTES
CAST IN THE STATE LAST NOVEMBER,
ONLY 27 WERE IDENTIFIED FOR
POSSIBLE FRAUD.
MEANWHILE, WISCONSIN'S DUELING
INVESTIGATIONS ARE TREADING INTO
UNCHARTERED TERRITORY.
GABLEMAN RAISED EYEBROWS THIS
WEEK WHEN HE ATTENDED A
CONSPIRACY-LADEN EVENT IN SOUTH
DAKOTA HOSTED BY MY PILLOW
C.E.O. MIKE LINDELL.
LINDELL CALLS RESULTS OF THE
2020 ELECTION "THE BIG LIE."
>> HERE IS WISCONSIN.
LOOK AT THAT.
20,000 VOTES BY -- WON BY.
>> FOR HER PART, BRANDTJEN
ISSUED SUBPOENAS FOR ACCESS TO
BALLOTS AND VOTING MACHINES,
HOWEVER, ATTORNEYS HAVE ADVISED
THOSE SUBPOENAS ARE INVALID
UNDER STATE LAW.
BRANDTJEN SAYS SHE JUST WANTS TO
AFFIRM THE ACCURACY OF ELECTION
RESULTS AND NEEDS SUBPOENAS TO
DO IT.
>> THIS IS BASICALLY TRYING
TO -- FROM YOUR RECORDS, DO YOU
HAVE EVERYTHING WE COULD
RE-CREATE THE ELECTION AND GET
TO THOSE FINAL NUMBERS?
>> BEYOND THAT, BRANDTJEN SAYS
SHE WANTS TO MAKE A FUTURE CASE
FOR CHANGES TO THE ELECTION
PROCESS.
IN FACT, THE STATE LEGISLATURE
ALREADY PASSED A SLATE OF
ELECTION BILLS IN JUNE THAT
WOULD MAKE CHANGES TO THE
ELECTION PROCESS, LIKE ADDING
MORE REQUIREMENTS FOR ABSENTEE
VOTERS TO REQUEST BALLOTS.
GOVERNOR TONY EVERS VETOED THOSE
BILLS THIS WEEK.
>> WE'VE WATCHED REPUBLICAN
GOVERNORS AND LEGISLATORS AROUND
OUR COUNTRY WORK QUICKLY TO ADD
MORE LUR DELLS TO VOTING, TO
DISCREDIT THE GOOD WORK OF OUR
ELECTION OFFICIALS AND TRY AND
CAST DOUBT ON THE ELECTION JUST
BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WIN.
IT'S TIME FOR THOSE THAT HAVE
STIRRED THE POT TO SAY THERE'S
NOTHING THERE.
>> ANY REPUBLICAN EFFORTS TO
CHANGE HOW WISCONSIN CONDUCTS
ITS ELECTIONS WILL ALMOST
CERTAINLY FACE A VETO FROM
EVERS.
AS TO THE VOS AND BRANDTJEN
INVESTIGATIONS, THEY COULD
EXTEND WELL INTO 2022.
THE AUDIT BUREAU ANTICIPATES ITS
REPORT TO BE RELEASED LATER THIS
FALL.
REPORTING FOR "HERE AND NOW,"
I'M WILL KENNEALLY IN MADISON.
>> FORMER JUSTICE GABLEMAN TELLS
REPORTERS THAT HE TRAVELED ON
TAXPAYER MONEY TO ARIZONA LAST
WEEK TO SEE THE REVIEW OF BO
LOTSLABALLOTS THIS WEEK AND THIS WEEK
TO THE MY PILLOW EVENT AS PART
OF A FACT-FINDING MISSION.
NOW TO COVID DEVELOPMENTS, STATE
DEPUTY HEALTH SECRETARY JULIE
WILL HEMS VAN DYKE SAYS
WISCONSIN NEEDS TO GET AN 80%
FULLY VACCINATED RATE IN THE
FIGHT AGAINST THE DELTA VARIANT.
CURRENTLY 50% OF WISCONSINITES
ARE FULLY VACCINATED.
GOVERNOR TONY EVERS SAYS THE
SPEED OF THE CURRENT SURGE MAKES
VACCINATIONS ALL THE MORE
IMPORTANT.
>> AS OF EARLIER THIS WEEK, THE
7-DAY AVERAGE OF NEW CONFIRMED
CASES HAS INCREASED 40% OVER THE
PAST WEEK, AND IT IS 11 TIMES
HIGHER THAN IT WAS A MONTH AGO.
ALL 72 COUNTIES ARE EXPERIENCING
HIGH OR VEL HIGH DISEASE VERY HIGH DISEASE
ACTIVITY AND OUR HEALTHCARE
PROVIDERS ARE PREPARING FOR THE
WORST.
FOLKS, THIS DELTA VARIANT IS NO
JOKE.
IT IS HIGHLY INFECTIOUS AND IS
SPREADING MORE QUICKLY THAN ANY
OTHER STRAIN OF THE VIRUS.
WE ARE NO LONGER IN THE FIGHT
AGAINST COVID-19.
THIS IS NOW A FIGHT AGAINST THE
DELTA VARIANT AND ALL THE
POTENTIAL VARIANTS THAT COULD
FOLLOW.
BUT WISCONSIN, THERE IS GREAT
NEWS HERE, AND THAT IS THAT WE
HAVE THE ANSWER.
THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE: GET
VACCINATED.
THE VACCINE IS SAFE AND
EFFECTIVE.
AND GETTING VACCINATED IS THE
BEST WAY TO PROTECT YOURSELF,
YOUR FAMILY, AND YOUR COMMUNITY
FROM COVID-19 AND THE DELTA
VARIANT.
IT'S EASY, IT FREE, AND ANYONE
CAN GET THE VACCINE REGARDLESS
OF IMMIGRATION STATUS OR IF
YOU'VE HAD COVID BEFORE.
>> THE DELTA VARIANT IS A WHOLE
NEW GAME BECAUSE IT IS HIGHLY
CONTAGIOUS, MUCH MORE CONTAGIOUS
THAN THE ORIGINAL STRAIN OF
COVID-19.
LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.
WITH THE ORIGINAL STRAIN OF
COVID-19, AN INFECTED PERSON WAS
LIKELY TO INFECT TWO OTHER
PEOPLE WHO WERE THEN LIKELY TO
INFECT TWO ADDITIONAL PEOPLE FOR
A TOTAL OF SIX CASES FROM ONE
INFECTION.
WITH THE DELTA VARIANT, AN
INFECTED PERSON IS LIKELY TO
INFECT FIVE PEOPLE, WHO ARE
LIKELY TO INFECT 25 PEOPLE, FOR
A TOTAL OF 30 CASES FROM ONE
INFECTION.
SIX COMPARED TO 30.
YOU CAN EASILY SEE HOW THIS
VARIANT WILL SPREAD LIKE
WILDFIRE.
AS THE WEATHER CHANGES AND MORE
PEOPLE MOVE INDOORS, THE VIRUS
WILL SPREAD EVEN MORE RAPIDLY.
IF YOU ARE UNVACCINATED AND
EXPOSED, IT'S NOT A MATTER OF IF
YOU'LL GET IT, IT'S WHEN.
AND WE KNOW THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE
UNVACCINATED ARE MOST AT RISK
FOR GETTING VERY ILL,
HOSPITALIZED, AND DYING.
WITH THIS SURGE, WE'RE A FEW
WEEKS BEHIND OUR SOUTHERN
STATES.
WHAT WE'RE SEEING HAPPEN IN
FLORIDA COULD HAPPEN HERE.
>> TONIGHT, IN THE SECOND OF HER
REPORTS ON HOUSING INSECURITY,
REPORTER MARISA WOJCIK EXPLORES
HOW EVICTIONS AND FEDERAL RENTAL
ASSISTANCE FITS IN TO
WISCONSIN'S BROADER HOUSING
CRISIS, EVEN AS THE CDC HAS
REINSTATED A PANDEMIC MORATORIUM
WITH THE SPREAD OF THE DELTA
VARIANT OF COVID-19.
>> I MEAN, IT CAN BE TOUGH,
EMOTIONALLY TOUGH WHEN YOU HAVE,
YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES LITTLE KIDS
ARE HERE, THEY'RE THERE WITH MOM
AND DAD AND THEY'RE BEING
EVICTED.
>> COMMISSIONER PAUL BURKE SEES
EVERY EVICTION CASE THAT COMES
THROUGH THE BROWN COUNTY
COURTHOUSE.
>> OKAY, COME ON.
>> MOST OF THEM, I'D SAY 90% OF
WHAT WE GENERALLY SEE ARE FOR
NONPAYMENT ISSUES.
>> MEANT TO SLOW DOWN THE SPREAD
OF COVID-19, BURKE SAW FIRSTHAND
HOW THE BAN ON EVICTIONS EMPTIED
OUT THE COURTROOM.
>> NUMBERS-WISE, WE PROBABLY
HAVE ABOUT 20 OR SO ON TODAY,
ALL TOLD.
AND ON PRE-COVID, IT WOULDN'T BE
UNUSUAL FOR US TO HAVE 50 OR 60.
>> PER WEEK?
>> PER WEEK.
>> STATEWIDE, EVICTIONS
DECREASED BY A THIRD WHILE THE
BAN WAS IN PLACE OVER THE LAST
YEAR.
THE MORATORIUM EXPIRED ON
JULY 31ST, BUT DAYS LATER, THE
CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL PUT
A NEW ONE IN PLACE, FOR COUNTIES
WITH HIGH TRANSMISSION RATES OF
COVID-19, AS THE DELTA VARIANT
SPREAD RAPIDLY.
>> I GET CALLS AN HOUR BEFORE
THE FIRST COURT DATE, RETURN
DATE --
>> GREEN BAY HOUSING INVENTORY
PROVIDES FREE SERVICES THROUGH
LEGAL ACTION WISCONSIN, AND IF A
TENANT DOES HAVE A LAWYER
PRESENT, IT PROBABLY HIM.
>> TENANTS WOULD BE IN A MUCH
BETTER POSITION IF THEY HAD
REPRESENTATION.
THERE'S THE PROCESS, WHICH IS
DIFFICULT WHEN YOU'RE NOT
FAMILIAR WITH IT.
>> BUT MOST TENANTS GO THROUGH
THE PROCESS ALONE.
>> THEY WILL COME IN AND I ASK
THEM IF THEY HAVE A LEGAL
DEFENSE AND THEY SAY, YES, I
LOST MY JOB, I'VE LIVED HERE FOR
TWO YEARS AND I'VE ALWAYS PAID
MY RENT AND I LOST MY JOB.
THAT'S WHY I HAVEN'T BEEN
ABLE -- AND THEY THINK THAT'S A
PERFECTLY VALID DEFENSE, AND
IT'S CERTAINLY UNDERSTANDABLE.
AND THEY'RE VERY SURPRISED WHEN
I TELL THEM THAT THAT'S NOT.
>> WITHOUT A LAWYER PRESENT, THE
TENANT IS AT A DISADVANTAGE.
>> IT IS INTIMIDATING TO BE IN A
COURTROOM WHEN YOU'RE NOT USED
TO BEING IN A COURTROOM.
>> IT'S NOT JUST WHAT HAPPENS IN
THE COURTROOM, BUT THE ENTIRE
EVICTION PROCESS IS UNKNOWN
TERRITORY TO MOST RENTERS.
>> THE SPEED OF THE WHOLE
PROCESS IS REALLY SCARY.
I MEAN, IT CAN HAPPEN FROM START
TO FINISH IN THREE TO FOUR
WEEKS, AND THE SHERIFF SHOWS UP
AND MOVES YOU OUT AND THEN
YOU'VE LOST EVERYTHING.
>> I'VE BEEN INVOLVED WITH
EASILY HUNDREDS OF EVICTIONS.
>> DEPUTY JOSEPH FISHER IN THE
BROWN COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE
ASSISTS IN REMOVING THE TENANTS,
ONLY IF THEY HAVEN'T LEFT WHEN
THE COURT ORDERED.
>> WHEN SOMEONE TRULY DOES NEED
HELP, I DON'T WANT TO BE THE
PERSON JUST TO REMOVE THEM.
I WANT TO AT LEAST GIVE THEM
SOME SORT OF DIRECTION IF
THEY'RE WILLING TO TAKE IT.
>> THE EMOTION AND THE STRESS,
THE FACT THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE
GOING THROUGH A CRISIS OF LOSING
HOUSING, ALL OF THAT COMES OUT
AT THE VERY LAST STEP.
>> I THINK THE PANDEMIC REALLY
SHOWED THE DISCONNECT IN
COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN LANDLORDS
AND TENANTS.
IT'S BEEN EITHER YOU PAY YOUR
RENT OR YOU DON'T, YOU GET OUT
OR YOU DON'T GET OUT, AND I
THINK THAT THERE'S THIS
MENTALITY THAT YOU JUST DON'T
COMMUNICATE THAT UNTIL IT'S
ALMOST TOO LATE.
>> JOE DEKEYSER OWNS SIX
PROPERTIES IN GREEN BAY, AND TO
HIM, COMMUNICATION IS IMPORTANT.
>> YOU HAVE TO HAVE A LINE OF
OPEN COMMUNICATION WITH YOUR
CLIENT OR FAMILY AND ALSO HAVE
PATIENCE AND THE ABILITY TO
UNDERSTAND THINGS THAT THEY ARE
GOING THROUGH ALSO IN THEIR
LIVES.
>> DEKEYSER SAYS HE'S ONLY
GOTTEN TO THE POINT OF EVICTING
A TENANT ONCE.
>> IN MY SITUATION, ANYWAY, IT
IS THE LAST RESORT.
>> FOR LANDLORDS WITH FAR MORE
PROPERTY, EVICTIONS ARE FAR MORE
COMMON.
>> I PERSONALLY SAW IT RIGHT
HERE IN GREEN BAY, BEING IN THAT
COURTROOM.
YEAH, THERE WERE COMPANIES THAT
THEY HAVE A FULL TIME PERSON
WITH THE FOLDER 6 INCHES WIDE
FULL OF EVICTION NOTICES AND
WENT UP TO THE JUDGE AND JUST
READ ONE RIGHT AFTER THE OTHER,
JUST LIKE IT WAS CALLING OUT
PEOPLE FOR LUNCH.
>> IT'S REALLY USED AS A RENT
COLLECTION TOOL.
>> BRANDON DU PONT IS A DATA
ANALYST WITH THE MEDICAL COLLEGE
OF WISCONSIN.
>> IF YOU HAVE 70% OF YOUR
INCOME IS GOING TO RENT, AND YOU
HAVE A LARGE SHOCK, SO YOUR CAR
BREAKS DOWN OR YOU ARE -- YOUR
KID HAS SOME SORT OF EMERGENCY.
YOU HAVE THIS DECISION, RIGHT,
BECAUSE YOU'RE ALREADY
OVEREXTENDED FINANCIALLY, DO I
PAY MY LORETTA LYNCH OR LANDLORD OR DO I PAY TO
FIX MY CAR SO I CAN GET TO WORK,
OR THIS MEDICAL BILL.
OFTENTIMES WHAT THE SERIAL
EVICTION PRACTICE IS DOING IS
IT'S TRYING TO REPRIORITIZE WHO
GETS PAID FIRST.
>> AND HEDGING WHAT BILLS TO PAY
FIRST IS HAPPENING TO MORE AND
MORE PEOPLE.
>> THE INCOME DISPARITY HAS JUST
GOTTEN WORSE AND WORSE.
LOOK AT THE HOME BUYING MARKET.
IT HAS JUST SKYROCKETED IN
VALUE.
WHICH IS GREAT FOR PROPERTY TAX
VALUES, IT'S GREAT FOR
COMMUNITIES, IT'S GREAT FOR
HOMEOWNERS WHO ARE SUDDENLY ABLE
TO HAVE THIS EQUITY IN THEIR
HOME THAT MAYBE THEY DIDN'T HAVE
BEFORE, BUT IT'S NOT GOOD FOR
PEOPLE WHO ARE EITHER LOOKING TO
BUY OR LOOKING TO RENT, BECAUSE
RENTS GO UP TOO.
>> A RECENT SURVEY ESTIMATES
THAT NEARLY 78,000 HOUSEHOLDS IN
WISCONSIN ARE BEHIND IN RENT.
>> MOST PEOPLE ARE PAYING MORE
THAN 50% OF THEIR INCOME IN
HOUSING.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO
ARE PAYING FAIR MARKET RENT,
6 TO 800 A MONTH, DEPENDING ON
THEIR FAMILY SIZE.
SOMETHING HAPPENS.
IT TAKES ONE TINY SLIP, AND THEY
GO OFF THE EDGE AND THEY CAN'T
MAKE THEIR RENT.
THEN THEY GET EVICTED.
>> GREEN BAY RESIDENT NORMA
TUCKER LIVED THIS WHEN SHE WAS
FORCED OUT OF HER HOME.
>> I COULDN'T AFFORD IT ANYMORE.
AND MY PAYMENTS STARTED OUT AT
600-PLUS, AND THEN WHEN I MOVED
OUT, IT WAS 849 FOR THE PAYMENT,
AND THAT WAS MORE THAN HALF OF
WHAT I MADE.
>> THE MORATORIUM WAS PUT IN
PLACE TO ADDRESS AN IMMEDIATE
HEALTH CRISIS BUT EVICTIONS HAVE
BEEN IMPACTING HEALTH LONG
BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.
>> TO BE IN GOOD HEALTH, YOU
NEED STABLE, RELIABLE SHELTER,
RIGHT?
FIRST AND FOREMOST.
BUT YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LOT OF
ESTABLISHED RESEARCH SHOWING AN
ASSOCIATION BETWEEN EVICTIONS
AND A WHOLE HOST OF SOCIAL
DETERMINANTS OF HEALTH IN THE
WORST HEALTH OUTCOMES.
FOR CHILDREN ESPECIALLY, IT'S AN
INCREDIBLY DESTABILIZING
EXPERIENCE.
>> A GLIMMER OF SHORT TERM
STABILITY CAME WITH BILLIONS OF
FEDERAL DOLLARS IN EMERGENCY
RENTAL ASSISTANCE.
IN WISCONSIN, THE STATE HAS
PARTNERS WITH LOCAL COMMUNITY
ACTION AGENCIES TO GET THAT
MONEY OUT.
THE RENTER APPLIES FOR
ASSISTANCE, AND THE CHECK GOES
STRAIGHT TO THE LANDLORD.
>> IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS
SUCCESSFUL, IT REALLY DOES
REQUIRE BUY-IN AND PARTICIPATION
FROM LANDLORDS, COMMUNITIES,
TENANTS, STATE, GOVERNMENT,
FEDERAL DOLLARS.
THERE'S A LOT OF PIECES TO
MAKING THIS WORK.
RIGHT NOW THE NEED IS TO MEET
PEOPLE'S EMERGENCY NEEDS AND GET
THEM STABILIZED WHILE WE FIGURE
OUT LONGER TERM SOLUTIONS TO OUR
HOUSING CRISIS.
>> NORMA NOW LIVES IN SUBSIDIZED
HOUSING, WHERE HER RENT IS
GUARANTEED TO BE A THIRD OF HER
INCOME, AND SHE'S ENJOYING HER
RETIREMENT THERE.
>> WE WORK PUZZLES, WE HAVE
DINNERS, AND IT'S JUST NICE.
>> FOR "HERE AND NOW," I'M
MARISA WOJCIK REPORTING FROM
GREEN BAY.
>> WISCONSIN OFFICIALS ARE
URGING RESIDENTS WHO ARE BEHIND
ON RENT BECAUSE OF COVID-RELATED
HARDSHIPS TO APPLY FOR THE
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN RENTAL
ASSISTANCE THAT IS STILL
AVAILABLE IN THE STATE.
THE U.S. CORY BOOKER RELEASED CENSUS BAUER OWE
RELEASED POPULATION DATA THIS
WEEK THAT WILL BE USED TO DRAW
UP POTENTIALLY NEW U.S.
CONGRESSIONAL AND LEGISLATIVE
DISTRICT LINES.
NEXT WEEK ZAC SCHULTZ REPORTS ON
THE STATUS OF REDISTRICTING IN
WISCONSIN.
THAT'S ALL FOR TONIGHT'S
PROGRAM.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GREAT WEEKEND.
[MUSIC]
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.