>>> WELCOME TO "NOON WEDNESDAY,"
I'M MARISA WOJCIK,
MULTIMEDIA JOURNALIST WITH
""HERE & NOW"" ON PBS WISCONSIN,
AND TODAY IS MARCH 31st.
A FEDERAL MORATORIUM AND
EVICTIONS THAT WAS SET TO
EXSPIRE TODAY HAS BEEN EXTENDED
THROUGH THE END OF JUNE, AND
THIS IS GOING TO STAVE OFF A
POTENTIAL WAVE OF EVICTIONS FOR
PEOPLE WHO ARE STILL STRUGGLING
TO PAY RENT DURING THE PANDEMIC.
GOVERNOR TONY EVERS DEDICATED
$322 MILLION OF FUNDS FROM
CONGRESS TO GO TOWARDS RENTAL
ASSISTANCE.
SO JOINING US TODAY IS BRAD
PAUL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE
WISCONSIN COMMUNITY ACTION
PROGRAM ASSOCIATION WHO IS IN
CHARGE OF DISTRIBUTING THESE
DOLLARS TO FOLKS AROUND THE
STATE, AND, BRAD, THANK YOU SO
MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
THANKS FOR YOUR INTEREST IN THE
SUBJECT.
>> WITH VACCINE DISPERSAL
RAMPING UP AND STATES LOOSENING
HEALTH RESTRICTIONS, WHY EXTEND
THE EVICTION MORATORIUM?
>> YEAH.
WELL, AS YOU SAID, PRESIDENT
BIDEN EXTENDED THE MORATORIUM
UNTIL THE END OF SEPTEMBER, I
BELIEVE, AND, OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE
REALLY PLEASED WITH THAT
DECISION.
IT WILL HELP PREVENT MILLIONS OF
PEOPLE FROM FACING EVICTION, AND
EVICTIONS STILL DO HAPPEN.
IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND
THAT.
THERE ARE THREE OR FOUR
EXCEPTIONS TO THE MORATORIUM
WHICH INCLUDES, YOU KNOW,
CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, HEALTH AND
SAFETY OF OTHER RESIDENTS,
DAMAGE TO PROPERTY, AND SO
EVICTIONS DO HAPPEN EVEN WITH
THE MORATORIUM, BUT THE
MORATORIUM SLOWED THEM.
THAT'S HELPED.
INCLUDING HERE IN WISCONSIN.
WHAT'S INTERESTING, TO ME, ABOUT
THE MORATORIUM IS THAT IT IS
ISSUED FROM THE CDC, AND SO WHAT
THAT DOES IS FRAMES IT WITHIN
PUBLIC HEALTH FRAME, AND IT --
THE THINKING BEING THAT YOU
DON'T WANT MORE PEOPLE
CONGREGATING IN SHELTERS, YOU
DON'T WANT HOMELESS FAMILIES,
THREE, FOUR FAMILIES TO AN
APARTMENT.
THESE ARE NOT -- THIS IS NOT
HELPFUL FOR PUBLIC HEALTH, BUT
THOSE KINDS OF SITUATIONS
OCCURRED BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.
WE HAD PEOPLE IN SHELTERS.
WE HAD FAMILY LIVING DOUBLED,
TRIPLED UP, AND YET THAT SAME
PROTECTION HAS NOT BEEN EXTENDED
TO THOSE PEOPLE IN THOSE
SITUATIONS BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.
TO PUT THE PUBLIC HEALTH FRAME
OVER IT IS HELPFUL, WISE, GOOD
POLICY, BUT I'M HOPING THAT
STARTS THE CONVERSATION TO
EXTEND THOSE SAME KINDS OF
CONVERSATIONS WITHIN HOUSING
SECURITY OR HOUSING RIGHTS FRAME
AFTER THE PANDEMIC HAS PASSED.
>> DO WE KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE
ARE ON THE VERGE OF EVICTION AND
HOW MUCH THEY ARE BEHIND BY IN
THEIR RENT?
>> NO.
I DON'T HAVE REALLY GOOD DATA AT
MY FINGERTIPS FOR WISCONSIN, BUT
I KNOW NATIONALLY THERE'S
ESTIMATES AT ONE IN FIVE RENTERS
IS BEHIND IN THEIR RENT, AND AS
MANY AS 15 MILLION ADULTS
NATIONALLY WHO ARE FACING, YOU
KNOW, PENDING HOUSING CRISIS,
BUT CURT PAULSON, A SCHOLAR AT
THE UNIVERSITY OF WISCONSIN,
STUDYING HOUSING POLICY AND HAS
GOOD RESEARCH ON THIS AND HAS
THOSE NUMBERS AVAILABLE.
>> AND IS THE AMOUNT THAT THE
STATE IS DEDICATING, THIS $322
MILLION, IS THAT ENOUGH TO WARD
OFF POTENTIAL EVICTION CRISIS?
>> WE THINK SO.
WE HOPE SO.
I THINK WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO
REMEMBER IS THIS IS -- THIS 322
IS THE THIRD ROUND OF STIMULUS
THAT'S COME THROUGH THAT'S
INCLUDED SOME HOUSING
ASSISTANCE, AND SO TO GO BACK TO
LAST SUMMER, LATE SPRING, EARLY
SUMMER, THE CARES ACT PROVIDED
MONEY TO THE STATE, AND THE
GOVERNOR CHOSE TO DEDICATE SOME
OF THAT FOR RENTAL ASSISTANCE
AND CREATED THE WRAP PROGRAM, A
WISCONSIN RENTAL ASSISTANCE
PROGRAM, AND THAT WAS ABOUT $25
MILLION FOR WISCONSIN AT THE
TIME.
THEY SUBSEQUENTLY ADDED ANOTHER
TEN TO THAT IN THE END OF THE
PROGRAM IN DECEMBER OF 2020.
THEN THE COVID RELIEF BILL
PASSED LAST DECEMBER, I BELIEVE,
AND THAT INCLUDED $25 BILLION
NATIONALLY, WITH WISCONSIN'S
SHARE OF THAT WAS $386 MILLION,
$322 FOR THE STATE, AS YOU JUST
MENTIONED, AND NOW IN THE
PIPELINE, THERE'S THE MORE
RECENT AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN,
WHICH HAS ABOUT THE EQUIVALENT
OF ABOUT WHAT WAS IN THE
PREVIOUS STIMULUS BILL, AND SO
ANOTHER $300-PLUS FOR THE STATE
IS LIKELY.
YOU TAKE ALL OF THAT TOGETHER,
AND YOU'RE LOOKING AT ABOUT $700
MILLION -- MORE THAN $700
MILLION FOR WISCONSIN IN RENTAL
ASSISTANCE IN THE LAST YEAR.
THAT SHOULD MAKE A SIGNIFICANT
DIFFERENCE IN KEEPING PEOPLE IN
THEIR HOMES DURING AND BEYOND
THE PANDEMIC.
THE LAST BIT OF THE STIMULUS
MONEY, THE RESCUE PLAN, I
BELIEVE, THAT MONEY IS -- YOU
ARE ELIGIBLE TO USE THAT ALL THE
WAY UP UNTIL SEPTEMBER OF '25.
THIS IS REALLY GOING TO MAKE A
SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE IN
PROVIDING HOUSING STATE FOR THE
WISCONSIN FAMILIES.
>> NOW, THESE ARE FEDERAL
STIMULUS DOLLARS, AND DOES THAT
MEAN THAT CONGRESS DECIDES THAT
THIS POCKET OR THIS BUCKET OF
MONEY IS GOING TO GO TOWARDS
RENTAL ASSISTANCE OF THE BIGGER
BILLS, OR IS THAT SOMETHING THAT
THE GOVERNOR DECIDES?
IS THAT SOMETHING THE
LEGISLATURE DECIDES?
HOW DOES THAT WORK?
>> YEAH, IT IS FEDERAL DOLLARS.
THE MONEY'S COMING IN THROUGH
THE TREASURY, THE TREASURY
PROVIDES GUIDANCE FOR THE
PROGRAM, AND SO THERE'S VERY
SPECIFIC GUIDANCE AROUND WHAT
THESE DOLLARS ARE USED FOR.
THEY SET THE ELIGIBILITY
CRITERIA, AND THEY HAND THAT TO
THE STATE TO ADMINISTER.
IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN, THE
DEPARTMENT OF ADMINISTRATION IS
ADD MEN -- ADMINISTERING THE DOLLARS
FOR THE TREASURY GUIDANCE.
THE ONE EXCEPTION OF THAT IS
UNDER THE CARES ACT, AGAIN, BACK
IN LAST SUMMER WHERE THE
GOVERNOR MADE THE DECISION DRKS
DRKS -- THE RIGHT DECISION IN
OUR MIND, TO ALLOCATE THAT
TOWARDS HOUSING DOLLARS, BUT THE
$322 MILLION NOW IS ALL COMING
DOWN FROM THE TREASURY WITH VERY
SPECIFIC ELIGIBILITY AND
GUIDANCE.
>> AND YOUR ORGANIZATION IS AN
UMBRELLA ORGANIZATION FOR MANY
OTHERS IN A NETWORK ACROSS THE
STATE.
WHY IS YOUR ORGANIZATION
SPECIFICALLY TAPPED TO
DISTRIBUTE THESE DOLLARS ON
BEHALF OF THE EVERS'
ADMINISTRATION?
>> SO AS YOU SAID, WE'RE A
STATEWIDE NETWORK, AND THIS IS
THE ASSOCIATION OF LOCAL
COMMUNITY ACTION AGENCIES
THROUGHOUT THE STATE WITH 18
MEMBER AGENCIES THAT COVER EVERY
CORNER OF THE STATE FROM NORTH
TO SOUTH, EAST, TO WEST, AND
RURAL, URBAN, EVERYTHING IN
BETWEEN, SO WE COVER THE ENTIRE
STATE, AND I KNOW THAT WAS
IMPORTANT TO THE GOVERNOR TO
MAKE SURE RENTAL RENTAL ASSISTANCE WAS
AVAILABLE THROUGHOUT THE STATE,
AND NOT CONCENTRATED IN URBAN
AREAS OR HEAVILY IN MILWAUKEE.
THEY WANTED STATEWIDE REACH.
THAT WAS ISSUE ONE.
SECONDLY, ALL OF OUR AGENCIES
HAVE RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE
STATE IN TERMS OF ADMINISTERING
STATE HOUSING PROGRAMS AND
FEDERAL HOUSING PROGRAMS AS WELL
SO THERE'S A EXISTING SORT OF
INFRASTRUCTURE AND EXPERIENCE IN
ADMINISTERING HOUSING DOLLARS,
AND THE THIRD PIECE WAS THAT
THERE'S A DESIRE TO HAVE FOLKS
WHO COME SEEKING HOUSING
ASSISTANCE ALSO POTENTIALLY
IDENTIFY OTHER THINGS THAT MAY
HELP THEM, AND SO CAP AGENCIES
PROVIDE A RANGE OF SERVICES.
EVERYTHING FROM HOUSING TO
RUNNING FOOD PANTRIES TO
LITERACY PROGRAMS TO JOB
TRAINING, TRANSPORTATION, THE
LIST GOES ON, AND SO THE FEELING
IS THAT IF SOMEONE COMES THROUGH
THE DOOR, SO TO SPEAK, ASKING OR
SEEKING RENT ASSISTANCE, THEY
MAY -- THOSE CAP AGENCIES MAY
ALSO PROVIDE WRAP-AROUND
SERVICES OR OTHER THINGS THAT
MAY HELP THAT FAMILY AS WELL,
AND SO ALL OF THAT TAKEN
TOGETHER, I THINK, SORT OF
BROADENED OUR NETWORK INTO THE
LIGHT OF MAYBE A GOOD AGENCY TO
RUN THESE DOLLARS THROUGH, AND,
AGAIN, WE RAN -- WE HELPED RUN
THE WRAP PROGRAM LAST SUMMER,
AND SO I THINK THIS IS A NATURAL
CONTINUATION OF THAT EFFORT.
>> DO WE KNOW WHO IS ELIGIBLE,
WHAT MAKES SOMEONE ELIGIBLE, AND
HOW MUCH THEY COULD POTENTIALLY
USE TOWARDS EITHER BACK RENT OR
FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE?
>> YES.
SO ELIGIBILITY IS -- SO EVERYONE
IN WISCONSIN'S ELIGIBLE.
ANY RENTER IN WISCONSIN WHO
MEETS SORT OF THREE CRIER TEE YA
IS ELIGIBLE.
THOSE ARE, YOU HAVE TO
DEMONSTRATE SOME FINANCIAL
IMPACT FROM COVID, AND THAT
COULD BE A JOB LOSS, LOSS OF
INCOME, BUT IT COULD ALSO BE
SOMETHING LIKE, PERHAPS, HOURS
REDUCED OR BECAUSE KIDS WERE
LEARNING REMOTELY, YOU INVESTED
MORE IN CHILDCARE, YOU KNOW,
SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
IF YOU SHOW A FINANCIAL IMPACT
AS A RESULT OF COVID, THAT'S
CRITERIA ONE.
THE SECOND IS YOU HAVE TO BE IN
DANGER OF LOSING YOUR HOUSING.
IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE AN
EVICTION NOTICE, BUT IT MEANS
YOU ARE BEHIND IN RENT AND WON'T
MAKE NEXT MONTH'S RENT AND
YOU'RE AT RISK.
THIRD PIECE IS SORT OF THE
INCOME ELIGIBILITY, AND THAT IS
IF YOU GO -- IT SERVES
HOUSEHOLDS UP TO 80% OF COUNTY
MEDIAN INCOME.
THAT GETS -- THAT SOMETIMES GETS
ABSTRACT, BUT WHAT IT MEANS IN
REAL TERMS FOR MOST FOLKS IS IN
DANE COUNTY, FOR EXAMPLE, A
FAMILY OF FOUR, 80% OF COUNTY
MEDIAN IS LOW $70,000 A YEAR,
AND IF YOU GO TO DODGE COUNTY, I
THINK IT'S BELOW 60,000.
GO FURTHER WEST TO MONROE, IT IS
50,000.
THAT'S 80% OF THE CMI INCOME OR
BELOW.
MOST OF THE INCOMES OR
INDIVIDUALS SEEKING ASSISTANCE
GENERALLY ARE AT ABOUT 50% OF
COUNTY MEDIAN, BUT IT CAN GO AS
HIGH AS 80, AND SO IF YOU ARE IN
WISCONSIN AND SUFFERING FROM
ECONOMIC EFFECT FROM COVID, YOUR
HOUSING IS AT RISK, AND YOU MEET
INCOME ELIGIBILITY THRESHOLD,
YOU ARE ELIGIBLE FOR ASSISTANCE
UNDER THE PROGRAM.
AS FAR AS WHAT AMOUNT OF
ASSISTANCE, YOU CAN -- THROUGH
THE PROGRAM, OUR AGENCIES CAN
HELP PEOPLE WITH RENT ALL THE
WAY BACK TO MARCH OF '20 WHEN
THE PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY WAS
DECLARED, AND THEN WE CAN HELP
FOLKS FORWARD ON RENT IF THEY
HAVE TROUBLE MAKING RENT IN THE
FUTURE MONTHS.
SO THE POSSIBILITY FOR SOME
HOUSEHOLDS IS THEY COULD BE
PROVIDED WITH AS MUCH AS 15
MONTHS WORTH OF RENT.
THAT'S NOT COMMON.
IT IS TYPICALLY SHORTER PERIODS
OF TIME, BUT THAT IS THE
ELIGIBILITY CRITERIA.
>> IS IT --
>> AND THERE'S NO LIMIT --
SORRY.
THERE'S NO CEILING ON IT.
IT'S BASED ON WHAT IS GOING TO
KEEP THEM IN THEIR HOUSES.
>> SURE.
IS IT DIFFICULT TO HAVE PEOPLE
GO THROUGH THESE ADMINISTRATIVE
BARRIERS AS WE'RE TRYING TO --
THE COUNTRY IS TRYING TO ROLL
THIS OUT IN REALTIME, YOU KNOW,
THERE COULD BE CONFUSION OVER
WHO MAKES ELIGIBILITY, AND
SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE
EXPERIENCING THESE PROBLEMS FOR
THE FIRST TIME, THERE'S REPORTS
WITH PEOPLE GOING TO THE FOOD
BANK FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME,
AND SOMETIMES IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE
OFTEN STRUGGLING TO MAKE RENT OR
DOUBLED UP OR WHAT HAVE YOU
MIGHT BE IN THIS POSITION, HOW
DIFFICULT IS IT TO ACTUALLY
IMPLEMENT A PROGRAM LIKE THIS?
QUICKLY.
>> YEAH.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE'RE
BENEFITING FROM, SORT OF
STRUCTURALLY AND
ADMINISTRATIVELY, IS WE HELPED
WITH THE WRAP PROGRAM, AS I
MENTIONED, A FEW MINUTES AGO,
AND THAT WAS THE FIRST PHASE OF
RENTAL ASSISTANCE.
THAT GAVE OUR AGENCIES KIND OF A
DRESS REHEARSAL FOR THE NEXT
ROUND, AND SORT OF WORKED OUT
THE KINKS, STREAMLINE
APPLICATIONS, TRY TO IDENTIFY
FOLKS IN NEED OF ASSISTANCE.
SO FROM AN ADMINISTRATIVE POINT
FOR THE AGENCIES, THAT HELPED A
GREAT DEAL.
FOR THE APPLICANT, AS YOU SAID,
IT IS CHALLENGING BECAUSE
THERE'S A LOT OF HOUSEHOLDS THAT
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THEY'VE
SOUGHT ANY FORM OF ASSISTANCE.
YOU MENTIONED FOOD PANTRIES AS A
PERFECT EXAMPLE.
YOU KNOW, FOOD PANTRIES ALL
REPORT THEY ARE SEEING A LOT OF
FOLKS FOR THE FIRST TIME, AN I
THINK IT'S THE SAME WITH RENTAL
ASSISTANCE AS WELL.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S STIGMA
SOMETIMES ATTACHED TO SEEKING
ASSISTANCE AND THERE'S PRIDE.
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS GOING
INTO PEOPLE RELUCTANT TO SEEK
ASSISTANCE, AND THERE'S, YOU
KNOW, THE BUREAUCRACY AND
APPLICATION HURDLES AND
VERIFICATION INFORMATION AND ALL
OF THAT SO WE TRY TO DO
EVERYTHING WE CAN TO MAKE THAT
AS EASY AS POSSIBLE AND WORKING
WITH THE STATE ON THAT, AND,
AGAIN, WE TRIED TO MAKE IT OPEN.
WE TRIED TO ENCOURAGE FOLKS WHO
MEET THAT CRITERIA THAT I
MENTIONED TO COME OUT AND SEEK
ASSISTANCE.
THERE'S -- WE -- MOST AGENCIES
PUT THEIR APPLICATION MATERIALS,
PROMOTIONAL MATERIALS IN
SPANISH, AND MANY OF THE
AGENCIES HAVE TRANSLATED
MATERIALS INTO MONG.
CERTAINLY, OUR WEB PORTAL FOR
THE STATEWIDE REPRESENTATION,
ALL MATERIALS IN SPANISH AND
MONG AS WELL, AND UNDOCUMENTED
FOLKS ARE AVAILABLE, AND
ASSISTANCE PER TREASURY
GUIDANCE, SO WE TRY TO MAKE IT
AS ACCESSIBLE TO FOLKS AS
POSSIBLE, BUT IT IS -- WHEN
PEOPLE ARE IN CRISIS AND SEEKING
ASSISTANCE, IT IS NEVER EASY FOR
ANYBODY, AND THAT'S JUST TO BE
UNDERSTOOD THAT THAT'S THE LINE
WE'RE ALL IN, THE STRESSES AND
CHALLENGES THAT COME WITH THAT.
>> YOU SAID IT'S DIFFICULT TO
KNOW EXACTLY THE REAL NUMBERS
RIGHT NOW AS TO HOW MANY PEOPLE
ARE EXPERIENCING THIS PROBLEM.
HOW MANY PEOPLE DID YOU HELP
LAST YEAR WITH THAT FIRST
PROGRAM YOU DESCRIBED, AND YOU
ALSO DESCRIBED THE WORST CASE
HOUSING DEFINITION AND HOW THAT
CAN HELP US UNDERSTAND THE SCOPE
OF THE PROBLEM OF HOW MANY
PEOPLE ARE TEETERING OR CLOSE TO
TEETERING.
>> YEAH.
SO LAST YEAR WITH THE WRAP
PROGRAM, WHICH IS QUITE SIMILAR
TO WHAT I DESCRIBED EARLIER WITH
THE CURRENT PROGRAM, THERE'S
SOME SLIGHT DIFFERENCES IN TERMS
OF ELIGIBLE AND WHATNOT, BUT
WITH THAT PROGRAM, THE AGENCIES,
CAP AGENCIES, WERE ABLE TO HELP
ASSISTANCE OVER 14,000
HOUSEHOLDS, AND THAT WAS IN
EVERY COUNTY IN THE STATE,
SOMEONE RECEIVING ASSISTANCE SO,
YOU KNOW, PER MY EARLIER POINT,
THE DESIRE FOR THE GOVERNOR WAS
TO MAKE SURE WE COVERED THE
ENTIRE STATE, AND WE DID THAT
WITH THAT PROGRAM AND OVER
14,000 HOUSEHOLDS, ABOUT $25
MILLION IN RENT WENT OUT.
ON AVERAGE, THE AVERAGE
HOUSEHOLD RECEIVED ABOUT $1500
TO $1600 OF ASSISTANCE SO THAT
WORKED QUITE WELL.
AND, OF COURSE, THIS, THE STALE
OF THIS IS TEN TIMES OF WHAT
THAT PROGRAM DID IN TERMS OF
DOLLARS SO WE'LL SEE WHAT THAT
TRANSLATES TO IN TERMS OF NUMBER
OF HOUSEHOLDS GETTING
ASSISTANCE.
WORST CASE HOUSING MEASURE THAT
YOU MENTIONED IS A REALLY
IMPORTANT ONE, AND IT IS ONE
THAT I DON'T THINK PEOPLE,
POLICYMAKERS THINK ENOUGH ABOUT
AND TALK ENOUGH ABOUT, AND WHAT
IT DOES IS IT'S A HUD MEASURE.
WHAT WORST CASE HOUSING IS
DEFINED AS IS IF YOU'RE AT 50%
OF AREA MEDIAN INCOME AND YOU
PAY 50% OR MORE OF YOUR INCOME
TOWARDS HOUSING AND YOU DON'T
RECEIVE ANY PUBLIC ASSISTANCE
FOR HOUSING, FEDERAL OR STATE,
THAT MEANS YOU'RE IN WHAT'S
CALLED WORST CASE HOUSING, AND
IN THE STATE OF WISCONSIN LAST
YEAR, WE HAD 306,000 PEOPLE WHO
MET THAT DEFINITION OF RENTERS,
AND THAT'S PROBABLY IN ALL
LIKELIHOOD THE LION SHARE OF
PEOPLE RIGHT NOW THAT OUR
AGENCIES ARE HELPING WITH WITH
ASSISTANCE BECAUSE IT'S FOLKS
RIGHT THERE ON THE EDGE, A
MISSED PAYCHECK HERE AND THERE,
ALREADY SPENDING HALF THE INCOME
ON HOUSING TO BEGIN WITH, AND IT
JUST TAKES A CRISIS OR MISSED
PAYCHECK OR EMERGENCY, AND THOSE
FOLKS ARE GOING TO BE BEHIND IN
RENT.
THAT NUMBER'S IMPORTANT FOR A
LOT OF REASONS, AND THAT 306
NUMBER I MENTIONED TO YOU,
THAT'S PRE-PANDEMIC SO MY
SUSPICION IS NEXT TIME WHEN
WE'RE ABLE TO SORT OF TAKE AN
ASSESSMENT OF THIS MOMENT WE'RE
ALL IN, THOSE NUMBERS WILL
PROBABLY BE SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER
THAN THAT ARE ALREADY SHOCKING
FOR NUMBERS.
SO WHAT'S INTERESTING TO ME AND
WHAT'S IMPORTANT FOR VIEWERS TO
UNDERSTAND IS THAT IS A GOOD
MEASURE HUD PUTS OUT AND IT
SHOWS SORT OF THE SITUATION THAT
WE'RE IN, AND IT REVEALS A LOT,
BUT HUD ALSO HAS A DEFINITION
THAT OBSCURES A LOT OF THE CRY
CIGS, -- CRISIS SO THAT'S WHEN
YOU TALK ABOUT HOMELESSNESS IN
HUD'S DEFINITION.
WHILE THIS GIVES US A BROAD VIEW
OF FAMILY AND HOUSEHOLDS IN
CRISIS, HUD DEFINITION FOR
HOMELESSNESS IS VERY NARROW SO
THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE FAMILIES
WHO ARE DOUBLED AND TRIPLED UP.
IT DOES NOT INCLUDE FAMILIES
LIVING IN MOTELS FOR LACK OF
ALTERNATIVES, AND THERE'S A LOT
OF FOLKS SORT OF OFF THE RADAR
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOMELESSNESS
AND THE RESPONSE, AND IN THE
STATE OF WISCONSIN, THE
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC EDUCATION,
WHICH USES A DIFFERENT
DEFINITION, THE DEFINITION OF
DEPARTMENT OF ED THAT THE
FEDERAL LEVEL USES, DOES INCLUDE
THOSE FOLKS, WHO, CERTAINLY, BY
OUR ESTIMATION AND VIEWPOINT ARE
HOMELESS, BUT NOT ABLE TO GET
ASSISTANCE THROUGH HUD.
WHEN DPI LOOKED AT THAT NUMBER,
THEY FOUND OVER 18,000 KIDS IN
THE STATE OF WISCONSIN LAST YEAR
MET THAT DEFINITION OF
HOMELESSNESS SO WHEN YOU TAKE
THAT WORST CASE HOUSING NUMBER,
YOU TAKE THAT DEFINITION, MORE
EXPANSIVE VIEW, ACCURATE VIEW IN
MY MIND OF HOMELESSNESS, YOU ARE
LOOKING AT VERY SERIOUS NUMBERS
THROUGHOUT THE STATE
PRE-PANDEMIC, AND, AGAIN, I
THINK THOSE NUMBERS HAVE
PROBABLY ONLY GONE UP, JUST VERY
SAFE TO ASSUME SINCE COVID
ARRIVED.
>> DO YOU HAVE A SENSE OF HOW
THIS $322 MILLION ALLOCATION
COMPARES TO OTHER SAFETY NET
PROGRAMS OR FUNDS?
>> YEAH.
SO THE AMERICAN RESCUE PLAN
INCLUDED A WHOLE RANGE OF
SUPPORTS AND PROGRAMS THAT WILL
HELP FOLKS BEYOND HOUSING.
I KNOW YOU RECENTLY HAD AN
INTERVIEW WITH TIM SNEAD FROM
THE UNIVERSITY TALKING THE
EARNED INCOME TAX CREDIT.
THAT'S INCLUDED IN THAT, AND THE
ESTIMATION IS THAT THAT WILL
HELP LIFT OUT, YOU KNOW, AS MANY
AS 50% OF KIDS IN POVERTY IN THE
STATE.
THE SNAP PROGRAM, FOOD STAMPS,
IF YOU WILL, WAS EXPANDED,
EXTENDED IN THE BILL, RAISED, I
BELIEVE, 15% INCREASE, AND WHAT
THAT MEANS FOR HOUSEHOLDS IS
SOMEWHERE BETWEEN, YOU KNOW, $25
AND $30 MORE PER MONTH FOR THE
NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS WHICH SEEMS
LOW, BUT IT IS SIGNIFICANT.
THERE WAS MORE MONEY IN THE BILL
FOR ENERGY ASSISTANCE, AND THEN
IN THIS NEXT ROUND COMING
THROUGH, WE TALKED ABOUT RENTERS
A LITTLE BIT HERE JUST NOW, BUT
THERE'S GOING TO BE SIGNIFICANT
AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR
HOMEOWNERSHIP ACTIVITY AS WELL
TO HELP PREVENT FORECLOSURES DUE
THROUGH MORTGAGE PAYMENTS OR
PROPERTY TAXES ASSISTANCE
EFFORTS, SO -- THE RENTAL PIECE
IS SIGNIFICANT, VERY
SIGNIFICANT, MUCH NEEDED, BUT
THERE'S THIS -- THERE'S A NUMBER
OF OTHER AREAS THAT HELP GIVE US
A MORE HOLISTIC APPROACH TO
STABLE
STABILIZING HOUSEHOLDS.
>> SO SOME CRITICIZE STIMULUS
BILLS FOR THEIR MASSIVE PRICE
TAG, BUT, YET, THERE ARE A LOT
OF PEOPLE IN NEED, AND AS YOU
SAID, SOME OF THAT WAS
PRE-PANDEMIC.
CAN ALL OF THIS GIVE US AN IDEA
OF WHERE THE PROBLEM WAS?
WHAT THE FUNDS ARE CURRENTLY SET
TO DO?
WHAT THAT COULD MEAN FOR FUTURE
POLICY DECISIONS?
>> YEAH.
SO IT IS AN UNDERSTANDABLE POINT
THIS IS A BIG PRICE TAG.
YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE
INVESTMENT AND WHAT YOUR RETURN
IS, AND YOUR RETURN IS, YOU
KNOW, HEALTHIER HOMES AND
HEALTHIER ECONOMY WHEN PEOPLE
HAVE HOUSING STABILITY.
TO GIVE YOU A SENSE AS TO WHAT
THIS -- WHAT THIS INTERVENTION
REALLY IS ADDRESSING, I'LL GO A
LITTLE FURTHER THAN THAT WORST
CASE HOUSING EVEN TO TELL YOU
WHAT THE EXTENT OF THE CRISIS
WAS AND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO
REVERSE.
SO IN WISCONSIN, CERTAINLY
NATIONALLY AND WISCONSIN AS
WELL, YOU HAVE KIND OF A DUAL
CRISIS WHEN IT COMES TO HOUSING.
THERE'S AN AFFORDABILITY AND
SUPPLY PROBLEM, AND WE'RE
TALKING LOW INCOME HOUSEHOLDS
HERE.
SO AFFORDABILITY IN WISCONSIN,
THE PROBLEM IS YOU NEED TO MAKE
ABOUT $17 PER HOUR IN ORDER TO
AFFORD A TWO-BEDROOM APARTMENT
AT MARKET RATE, AND, OF COURSE,
THAT'S WELL IN EXCESS OF WHAT
MINIMUM WAGE IS, AND THIS IS
PARTICULARLY DIFFICULT FOR LOW
INCOME HOUSEHOLDS TO ACHIEVE SO
YOU HAVE THAT.
THE SECOND PROBLEM IS THE SUPPLY
PROBLEM, AND THERE'S CLOSE TO
200,000 RENTERS IN THIS STATE
WHO ARE CLASSIFIED AS EXTREMELY
LOW INCOME, AND THAT'S 30% OF AN
AREA MEDIAN INCOME.
SO YOU HAVE THAT MANY RENTERS,
BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE NUMBER OF
UNITS, EVEN IF THEY SOLVE THE
AFFORDABILITY RIDDLE, THERE'S
NOT THE NUMBER OF UNITS
AVAILABLE FOR THOSE HOUSEHOLDS.
THE ESTIMATION THERE'S ABOUT
120,000 -- LACK OF 120,000 UNITS
IN THIS STATE TO MEET THE DEMAND
OF THOSE EXTREMELY LOW INCOME
HOUSEHOLDS, SO THAT'S, AGAIN,
PRE-PANDEMIC.
THAT'S THE OVERLAY OF WHAT WE
ARE LOOKING AT.
CLEARLY, BY ANYONE'S DEFINITION,
IT IS NOT HELPFUL TO THE
ECONOMY, TO PUBLIC HEALTH, ANY
MEASURE YOU PUT TO HAVE SO MANY
PEOPLE IN HOUSING CRISIS, AND SO
IF YOU INVS. -- INVEST IN THE
FRONT END WITH RENTAL ASSISTANCE
OR FORECLOSURE PREVENTION
ACTIVITIES, ALL OF THAT, MY
HYPOTHESIS IS YOU SEE A RETURN
ON INVESTMENT THAT ULTIMATELY
SUFFERS THE ECONOMY, DESPITE THE
LARGE PRICE TAG.
WHAT IT COULD MEAN LONGER TERM,
I THINK -- I MEAN, THERE'S A LOT
OF MONEY AS YOU SAID COMING INTO
THE STATE ON HOUSING, AND I
MENTIONED EARLIER, OVER 700
MILLION IN RENTAL ASSISTANCE,
AND I DON'T KNOW THE FINAL
FIGURE FOR HOMEOWNERSHIP
ACTIVITY, BUT IT WILL BE A
SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY FOR
FORECLOSURE AND PROPERTY TAX
PAYMENTS.
THERE'S ALSO MONEY SORT OF
TARGETED FOR HOUSING CHOICE
VOUCHERS, WHICH SECTION 8
PROGRAM, WHICH HELPS LOW INCOME
RENTERS, MONEY FOR HOMELESSNESS
ASSISTANCE SO THERE'S A LOT OF
MONEY COMING INTO THE HOUSING
SECTOR, AND THAT HAS REAL
POTENTIAL TO CHANGE SORT OF THE
MATERIAL REALITY OF LOW INCOME
FOLKS, BUT ALSO THE WAY WE DO
HOUSING POLICY, AND I THINK THAT -- I THINK IT'S -- IT
PROVIDES US WITH AN OPPORTUNITY
TO RETHINK THE ROLE OF
GOVERNMENT TO HELP SERVE FOLKS
THROUGH THE MARKET, WHO IS
FORGOTTEN, WHICH IS A
SIGNIFICANT ISSUE NATIONALLY,
AND IN IN WISCONSIN, GETTING
HOUSING THAT REACHES DOWN TO THE
LOWEST INCOME FOLKS IS A
CONTINUAL CHALLENGE THAT THE
MARKET JUST ISN'T ABLE TO SOLVE
ON ITS OWN.
WE, AS A COUNTRY, REVERSED
FEDERAL HOUSING DOLLARS IN THE
1980s WITH CUTS TO THE HUD
BUDGET, AND WE NEVER RESTORED
THAT, AND THAT'S WHEN WE SAW A
SPIKE IN HOMELESSNESS AND
HOUSING INSTABILITY IN GENERAL,
AND SO I THINK THIS MOMENT GIVES
US OPPORTUNITY AND GIVES
POLICYMAKERS OPPORTUNITY TO
RETHINK THE ROLE OF GOVERNMENT
IN HELPING STABILIZE OUR HOUSING
MARKETS.
I THINK WE'RE THERE.
WE'RE GETTING THERE.
I THINK IT IS AN IMPORTANT
DISCUSSION, AND A MOVE FOR US TO
HAVE.
>> ALL RIGHT.
WE NEED TO LEAVE IT THERE.
BRAD PAUL FROM THE WISCONSIN
COMMUNITY ACTION PROGRAM
ASSOCIATION, THANK YOU SO MUCH
FOR JOINING US.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.
>>> FOR MORE FROM "HERE AND NOW"
AND "NOON WEDNESDAY," VISIT
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WEDNESDAY."