TEN, 11, 12, THANK YOU.
>> HEY, KURT.
>> HOW ARE YOU DOING?
>> GOOD, HOW ARE YOU?
>>> WELCOME TO "NOON WEDNESDAY,"
I'M MELINDA McKINSEY WITH
"HERE AND NOW" ON PBS WEDNESDAY,
AND TODAY IS MARCH 9.
GOVERNOR EVERS DECLARED 2021 THE
YEAR OF BROADBAND ACCESS DESPITE
2020 BEING SPENT BY MOST PEOPLE
MOVING THEIR LIVES ONLINE DUE TO
THE COVID-19 PANDEMIC, THERE ARE
STILL POCKETS OF WISCONSIN THAT
HAVE LITTLE TO NO INTERNET
ACCESS.
JOINING US TODAY TO TALK ABOUT
HOW THIS HAS IMPACTED WISCONSIN
SCHOOLS AND COMMUNITIES IS
ASSISTANT STATE SUPERINTENDENT
FROM THE DIVISION OF LIBRARIES
AND TECHNOLOGY, KURT KIEFER, AND
JUST A NOTE, KURT KIEFER SERVES
ON THE EDUCATIONAL
COMMUNICATIONS BOARD, WHICH
HOLDS ONE OF PBS WISCONSIN'S
BROADCAST LICENSES, AND, KURT,
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING
US.
PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION MAP
NOT ONLY SHOWS WHERE CONNECTING
TO THE INTERNET JUST ISN'T
POSSIBLE, BUT ALSO WHERE IT IS
VERY CHOKED UP AND SLOW.
DO WE KNOW THE SCOPE OF HOW THIS
HAS IMPACTED STUDENTS' LEARNING
THIS PAST YEAR?
>> YEAH, WE REALLY HAVE,
MARISSA, AND, AGAIN, THANK YOU
FOR HAVING ME ON.
THE ISSUE AROUND STUDENTS IS
THAT, BASICALLY, OUR -- PRIOR
THE PANDEMIC STATUS, WE WERE
REQUESTING INFORMATION FROM
SCHOOL DISTRICTS ABOUT THE
EXTENT TO WHICH THEY ARE SERVING
KIDS, AND WE LEARNED THAT AT
THAT POINT, PRIOR TO THE
PANDEMIC, THERE WERE PROBABLY
15% OF KIDS NOT CONNECTED, AND
IN THAT AREA, RIGHT, WE CALL
THAT THE HOMEWORK APP, WELL,
NOW, IT'S CALLED THE LEARNING
GAP AS THERE'S A WHOLE BUNCH OF
KIDS THAT ARE NOT ABLE TO ACCESS
LEARNING WITHOUT THAT
CONNECTION, AND, REALLY, DUE TO
A BUNCH OF HEROIC EFFORTS ON THE
PART OF SCHOOL DISTRICT FOLKS
AND INTERNET PROVIDERS,
THEMSELVES, THEY REALLY HAVE
STEPPED UP, AND TODAY, WE'RE NOW
DOING A MUCH MORE GRANULAR
COLLECTION OF THAT INFORMATION
FROM SCHOOL DISTRICTS, AND WHAT
WE DISCOVERED IS WE PROBABLY
PAIRED THE NUMBER DOWN TO 5% OR
A LITTLE LESS THAN 5% OF KIDS,
BUT IN WISCONSIN, I MEAN, THAT'S -- THAT'S 25,000 KIDS,
RIGHT?
I MEAN, THAT'S STILL A LOT OF
KIDS.
WHAT WE'VE ALSO LEARNED IS THAT
THERE ARE GENERALLY, YOU KNOW,
TWO DIFFERENT REASONS FOR NOT
CONNECTING.
ONE IS THEY JUST DON'T HAVE A
PROVIDER, OR THE OTHER IS THEY
CAN'T AFFORD IT, EVEN IF THERE
WERE A PROVIDER, AND SO THE
PROBLEM PERSISTS, AND WE ARE
QUITE CERTAIN IT IS GOING TO
PERSIST EVEN AFTER THIS
PANDEMIC, AND SO WE'VE DONE A
LOT TO TRY TO MITIGATE THAT
ISSUE, BUT THAT'S WHERE IT IS
TODAY.
>> MANY PEOPLE THINK THAT THIS
IS JUST A RURAL ISSUE, BUT
THAT'S NOT EXACTLY TRUE,
ESPECIALLY WHEN WE THINK OF THE
COST OF INTERNET, AND YOU JUST
MENTIONED AFFORDABILITY.
HOW IS THIS IMPACTING PEOPLE NOT
EVEN JUST IN RURAL AREAS?
>> YEAH.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT DATA THAT
WE'VE GOT, IT CLEARLY IS A BROAD
BRUSH.
I MEAN, IT AFFECTS KIDS NOT ONLY
IN CITIES, BUT IN, YOU KNOW,
SUBURBAN AREAS AS WELL AS RURAL
AREAS ISSUE, AND, CLEARLY, THE
REASONS THEY ARE NOT CONNECTED
VARY GEOGRAPHY TO GEOGRAPHY.
IN A RURAL AREA, THERE'S AN
ISSUE OF NO PROVIDERS OR ACCESS,
BUT IN DENSELY POPULATED AREAS,
IT IS TRULY THAT MORE OF A
SITUATION OF I CAN'T AFFORD IT,
I HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE BETWEEN
THIS OR THAT IN ORDER TO PAY FOR
IT.
I DO WANT TO -- YOU KNOW, I WANT
TO CONNECT THOSE TWO THINGS
BECAUSE I THINK IT IS REALLY
IMPORTANT TO THINK OF THEM THAT
WAY.
ULTIMATELY, IT IS ALL
AFFORDABILITY, RIGHT?
I MEAN, IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO
PAY FOR SOMETHING BECAUSE YOU
GOT AN OPPORTUNITY TO PAY FOR
IT, BUT YOU HAVE THESE CHOICES
IN YOUR OWN HOME BUDGET AND WHAT
HAVE YOU THAT YOU HAVE TO MAKE,
THAT'S ONE WAY OF LOOKING AT IT,
BUT IN A RURAL AREA,
AFFORDABILITY IS THE REASON WE
DON'T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE
OUT THERE, TOO, AND IT IS JUST
COSTS MORE TO BUILD THAT
INFRASTRUCTURE, AND SO THE
MONTHLY COST MIGHT BE
PROHIBITIVE IF THEY WERE TO DO
IT, AND SO IT REALLY IS A
SIMILAR NEED, AND IT IS
AFFORDABILITY THAT MANIFESTS IN
A LITTLE DIFFERENT WAY FROM ONE
PLACE TO ANOTHER.
>> WOULD SOMETHING LIKE THAT
EXACERBATE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT
GAPS, WHICH ARE ALREADY HIGH IN
CERTAIN AREAS IN WISCONSIN,
PARTICULARLY IN RACIAL
DISPARITIES?
>> YEAH.
THE DATA AREN'T THERE YET TO BE
ABLE TO, YOU KNOW, DEFINITIVELY
SAY WHAT THE IMPACT OF THAT IS,
BUT, CLEARLY, YOU CAN IMAGINE IF
YOU DON'T HAVE A CONNECTION,
RIGHT, AND YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO
ENGAGE, EVEN IN THIS WAY WITH
YOUR TEACHER, THERE'S GOING TO
BE AN ISSUE, RIGHT?
SO WE'VE GOT A WAYS TO GO TO BE
ABLE TO DETERMINE WHAT THAT
IMPACT IS, BUT THE THING THAT WE
CERTAINLY CAN DO RIGHT NOW IS
GATHER THAT DATA THAT TELLS US
WHO IS AND WHO IS NOT CONNECTED,
AND BE ABLE TO USE THAT AS IT
RELATES TO ADDRESSING THEIR
IMMEDIATE NEEDS AND THEN ALSO
ADDRESSING THE LONGER TERM
POLICY NEEDS THAT WE NEED TO
HAVE IN PLACE IN ORDER TO SOLVE
THE PROBLEM.
>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT DATA, DPI
HAS SURVEYED STUDENTS AND
FAMILIES ABOUT THEIR INTERNET
CONNECTIVITY, BUT IT IS ONLY
ABOUT A THIRD OF TOTAL
ENROLLMENT.
IS THAT ENOUGH TO REALLY KNOW
WHERE THE PROBLEMS LIE, AND HOW
DO WE KNOW THOSE ARE NOT JUST
THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE INTERNET?
>> YEAH.
GOOD QUESTION.
AS I MENTIONED, YOU KNOW, IN THE
PAST, WE RELIED ON AGGREGATE
NUMBERS FROM SCHOOL DISTRICTS TO
TELL US, HEY, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF
THE KIDS ARE CONNECTED, NOT
CONNECTED, AND IF THEY ARE NOT,
WHY?
AND THAT IS WHAT WE RELIED ON
FOR YEARS.
AS I SAID WITH THE PANDEMIC, WE
IMMEDIATELY KNEW WE HAD TO PIVOT
OVER THOSE DISTRICTS FOR MORE
GRANULAR INFORMATION FOR THEM,
AND THEY WERE DOING THAT
THEMSELVES, RIGHT, I MEAN, THEY
NEEDED TO DO THAT.
WHAT WE DID WAS WE IMPLEMENTED A
METHOD ALLOWING THEM TO
IMPLEMENT QUESTIONS RIGHT WITHIN
THEIR, YOU KNOW, THE SOFTWARE
THAT THEY USE EVERY SINGLE DAY
WITH PARENTS, AND IT IS A
VOLUNTARY THING, RIGHT, A
VOLUNTARY PRACTICE ON THEIR
PART, BUT WHAT WE'VE TRIED TO DO
IS ADD VALUE TO THAT BY TAKING
THAT INFORMATION AND MARRYING
THAT WITH OTHER INFORMATION FROM
PROVIDERS ABOUT WHO IS PROVIDING
SERVICE WHERE, WHAT KINDS OF
PROGRAMS ARE BEING OFFERED, AND,
YEAH, WE'VE GOTTEN TO A THIRD OF
THE POPULATION OF STUDENTS OUT
THERE REPORTING THAT
INFORMATION, BUT, BOY, THAT'S A
LOT MORE DETAIL THAN WE'VE EVER
HAD BEFORE, AND THAT'S -- YOU
KNOW, THAT'S OVER 300,000
STUDENTS THAT WE WITH ARE --
THAT WE HAVE THE INFORMATION FOR
NOW, AND THEY DO -- IT IS -- THE
VOICE OF THE PARENTS, RIGHT,
THEM TELLING US, DO YOU HAVE
ACCESS OR NOT, AND IF YOU DON'T,
WHY, AND IF YOU DO HAVE ACCESS,
IS IT WORKING FOR YOU?
THAT'S THE OTHER THING.
IS IT EVEN WORKING WELL FOR YOU
TO BE ABLE TO SUPPORT THIS KIND
OF LEARNING AND ENGAGEMENT?
SO WE'RE -- AND OUT OF ALSO --
IF YOU WANT TO BENCHMARK AGAINST
OTHER INFORMATION, THE QUALITY
OF SOME OF THE INFORMATION OUT
THERE RIGHT NOW, EVEN FROM THE
FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS
COMMISSION AROUND WHO HAS ACCESS
AND WHO DOESN'T IS PRETTY
SPOTTY, AND SO WE FEEL WE'VE
CONTRIBUTED MIGHTILY TO THE
DETAIL ON, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE
TRUE ACCURATE STORY OUT THERE IN
TERMS OF WHO HAS ACCESS AND WHO
DOESN'T, AND, YOU KNOW, AS IT
RELATES TO WHO IS RESPONDING TO
THIS, WE ARE PRETTY CONFIDENT
THAT THE INFORMATION IS AT LEAST
FAIRLY REPRESENTATIVE AS WE LOOK
AT WHICH DISTRICTS HAVE
RESPONDED ACROSS THE STATE AND
WHAT HAVE YOU, AND SO WE ARE
FEELING PRETTY GOOD ABOUT THE
QUALITY OF THAT INFORMATION THAT
WE'VE GOTTEN, AND THAT IS BETTER
INFORMATION THAN WE'VE HAD TO
WORK WITH TO DATE.
>> I SPOKE WITH AN EDUCATOR FROM
THE BLACK RIVER FALLS SCHOOL
DISTRICT, AND SHE'S A MEDIA
ADVISER TO STUDENTS, AND SHE HAS
HAD TO COME IN TO THE SCHOOL
PHYSICALLY DURING THE PANDEMIC
EVERY DAY BECAUSE SHE DOESN'T
HAVE ADEQUATE INTERNET AT HOME.
SHE SAID CONNECTING TO A
SATELLITE WITH HIGH LATENCY, FOR
EXAMPLE, SIMPLY DOESN'T WORK IF
YOU REQUIRE ZOOM CALLS WITH
MULTIPLE STUDENTS, AND ISSUES
LIKE THIS, HAS THAT FORCED OTHER
SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND FAMILIES TO
COME BACK INTO THE CLASSROOM
SOONER THAN THEY NORMALLY WOULD
HAVE IN THE MIDST OF A PANDEMIC?
>> WELL, I THINK THE
CIRCUMSTANCES OF NOT BEING ABLE
TO ACCESS INTERNET, CERTAINLY,
ARE GOING TO DRIVE BEHAVIORS OF
HOW YOU ARE GOING TO BE ABLE TO
DO YOUR WORK.
MY HEART GOES OUT TO THOSE
SCHOOL LIBRARY MEDIA
SPECIALISTS.
YOU MENTIONED MY ROLE, MY ROLE
IS LIBRARIES, AND SO THOSE FOLKS
ARE HEROS IN THEIR SCHOOL
DISTRICTS, LITERALLY STEPPING UP
TO HAND OUT CHROMEBOOKS AND HOT
SPOTS AND THOSE SORTS OF THINGS
TO THOSE KIDS, KUDOS TO THE
COLLEAGUES IN THE SCHOOL
DISTRICTS SERVING IN THOSE
ROLES.
AS FAR AS, YOU KNOW, THOSE
BEHAVIORS, I CAN ASSURE YOU
THAT, YOU KNOW, THE 4%, ROUGHLY,
OF KIDS THAT ARE IDENTIFIED AS
HAVING SATELLITE ACCESS, THEY
ARE STRUGGLING, ROCKET, WITH -- RIGHT,
WITH THEIR CONNECTIONS, NO
QUESTION THEY ARE STRUGGLING
WITH CONNECTIONS.
IN WISCONSIN, THAT EXTRAPOLATES
TO 25,000 TO 30,000 KIDS, A BIG
NUMBER OF KIDS THAT HAVE
INADEQUATE ACCESS.
IT IS NOT THAT -- YOU KNOW, IT'S
NOT JUST SAYING ANYTHING BAD
ABOUT SATELLITE PROVIDERS.
THEY ARE A PROVIDER OF LAST
RESORT, AND THEY SAY THAT, YOU
KNOW, AND THEY DID NOT
ANTICIPATE BEING THE SOLE
PRIMARY PROVIDER IN A COMPLETELY
VIRTUAL LEARNING ENVIRONMENT
WITH ALL VIDEO GOING ON, AND SO
IT JUST SPEAKS TO THE NEED TO
CONTINUE TO LOOK AT WHAT ARE THE
SOLUTIONS THAT WILL WORK THAT
ALLOW EVERYONE TO HAVE THEIR
NEEDS MET?
SO, FOR US, IT IS ABOUT TRYING
TO GET AS MUCH, YOU KNOW, FIBER
TO EVERY HOUSE THAT WE CAN
POSSIBLY GET OUT THERE, AND
THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE ARE
TRYING TO EMPHASIZE AS WE WORK
WITH OTHERS AND PARTNERS ON WHAT
ARE THE SOLUTIONS THAT ARE
NEEDED TO MAKE SURE WE CAN
CONNECT WITH THESE FOLKS.
>> SHE ALSO SAID THAT A GRANT
FROM THE FEDERAL COMMUNICATIONS
COMMISSION TO THE SERVICE
PROVIDER, CENTURY LINK, IN THAT
AREA SHOULD HAVE BUILT THAT
INFRASTRUCTURE OUT BY NOW, BUT
YEARS LATER, HER CONNECTION IS
STILL BARELY ABOVE DIALUP
CONNECTION.
THEY TOLD HER IT IS TOO
EXPENSIVE TO REACH HER HOME.
ARE PUBLIC/PRIVATE PARTNERSHIPS
THE WAY TO GO IF WE STILL HAVE
RESIDENTS BEING LEFT BEHIND?
>> THAT'S THE NUB OF THE
QUESTION RIGHT THERE, IS WHAT'S
THE RIGHT INVESTMENT AND HOW IN
ORDER TO MAKE SURE EVERYONE HAS
ACCESS IN AN EQUITABLE WAY.
IF THIS IS HOW WE ARE GOING TO
INTERACT, WHETHER IT'S LEARNING
OR HEALTHCARE OR WORK, RIGHT,
ITSELF, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE
EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT KIND OF
CONNECTIONS.
SOME OF THE FEDERAL INVESTMENTS
MADE HAVE BEEN FINE TO CONNECT
FOLKS
FOLKS WHO DON'T NEED TO RELY ON
UP AND DOWNSTREAM VIDEO ALL THE
TIME, BUT THEY ARE NOT THE
SOLUTION IF THAT'S, INDEED, WHAT
WE ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH
FROM, AGAIN, AN EDUCATION
PERSPECTIVE, CERTAINLY.
SO I THINK AS WE, AGAIN, TRY TO
SAY, WELL, WHAT DO WE DO GOING
FORWARD, IT IS TO MAKE SURE THAT
THOSE INVESTMENTS ARE FOCUSED ON
THE TECHNOLOGIES THAT ACTUALLY
DELIVER WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO
ACCOMPLISH.
THE OTHER THING IS DATA, RIGHT?
EARLY ON.
I SAID THAT THE FEDERAL
COMMUNICATIONS COMMISSION HAS
NOT NECESSARILY HAD THE BEST
QUALITY DATA ABOUT BEING ABLE TO
SAY WHO SERVED AND WHO IS NOT
SERVED, AND HAVE WE MADE THE
PROGRESS THAT WE EXPECT TO MAKE
IN TERMS OF THOSE INVESTMENTS,
SO WITH THOSE PUBLIC/PRIVATE
PARTNERSHIPS COME EXPECTATIONS
AROUND, YOU KNOW, BEING ABLE TO
BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THOSE PUBLIC
INVESTMENTS AND BEING ABLE TO
SAY, YEAH, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT
WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED, AND WHAT
WE'VE ACCOMPLISHED IS THE GOAL
THAT WE REALLY WANT, WHICH IS,
AGAIN, IT'S FUTURE PROOFING THE
TECHNOLOGY SO THAT YOU CAN
CONTINUE TO LIVE, WORK, PLAY THE
WAY WE NEED TO, WHICH IS THIS
KIND OF WAY.
>> THE PANDEMIC HAS SHOWN US
JUST HOW HEAVILY EDUCATION
RELIES ON INTERNET, BUT ALSO HOW
OTHER AREAS OF OUR LIFE CAN RELY
ON INTERNET FROM OTHER FORMS OF
WORK, TELEHEALTH, PAYING BILLS,
ENTERTAINMENT.
IT IS OUR CONNECTION TO THE
OUTSIDE WORLD.
IF THAT'S THE CASE, SHOULD
BROADBAND BECOME A PUBLIC
UTILITY?
>> YOU KNOW, I THINK, YOU KNOW,
THAT'S -- THAT'S AN INTERESTING
QUESTION, AND I THINK IT'S ONE
THAT'S UP FOR A LOT OF DEBATE.
I THINK THE WAY I KIND OF LOOK
AT IT IS IT'S -- I THINK IT'S A
UTILITY WITH A SMALL "U," RIGHT?
IT'S A NEED.
EVERYONE NEEDS IT.
THE PANDEMIC HAS MADE THAT VERY,
VERY CLEAR.
THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF FUNCTIONS
THAT WE COULD HAVE DONE USING
PUBLIC ACCESS WIFI AND THINGS
LIKE THAT, BUT THE -- YOU KNOW,
THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE
SUFFICIENT MOVING FORWARD, AND
SO WE NEEDED TO MAKE THOSE
INVESTMENTS IN A MANNER THAT
ALLOWS US TO BE ABLE TO, YOU
KNOW, MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE
MEETING THOSE GOALS, SO --
>> A DISTRICT SUPERINTENDENT I
SPOKE WITH FROM MAPLE, WISCONSIN
SAID SOME OF THEIR FAMILIES GET
INTERNET, BUT ONLY GET DATA
THROUGH THEIR PHONES.
CENTURY LINK UP THERE IS
AFFORDABLE, BUT IT IS UNSTABLE.
THE OTHER PROVIDER, NORVADO, IS
VERY FAST, BUT VERY EXPENSIVE.
HOW EXACTLY DO YOU FIND EQUITY
WHEN PEOPLE ARE LEFT WITH
IMBALANCED CHOICES BETWEEN
QUALITY OF SERVICE AND COST?
>> YEAH.
THAT'S THE -- THAT'S THE KEY,
RIGHT?
AND IT GETS BACK TO, I THINK IT
GETS BACK TO REALIZING THAT THIS
ISSUE IS NOT NECESSARILY A
TECHNOLOGY ISSUE.
IT IS MORE OF A FUNDING ISSUE.
I DON'T EVEN MEAN THAT FROM IS
THERE ENOUGH FUNDING, BUT I MEAN
IT FROM THE PERSPECTIVE IF WE
KNOW THAT AFRICAN NEEDS -- THAT
EVERYONE NEEDS TO FUNCTION THIS
WAY AND EVERYONE NEEDS THIS KIND
OF TECHNOLOGY, THEN THAT'S THE
SOLUTION WE HAVE TO PUT IN
PLACE.
IT'S THIS KIND OF TECHNOLOGY.
I THINK A LOT OF IT IS, YOU
KNOW, CAUGHT UP IN THIS NOTION
OF, WELL, IT HAS TO BE COST
EFFECTIVE.
IT HAS TO MEET A CERTAIN RETURN
ON OUR INVESTMENT, AND THAT'S
TRUE.
IT IS SO TRUE THAT RETURN ON
INVESTMENT IS A KEY, YOU KNOW,
KEY METRIC WE HAVE TO BE
THINKING ABOUT.
THINGS ARE NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
IF IT DOESN'T HAVE A PAYOFF.
WELL, I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING
TO DO IS PIVOT THE CONVERSATION
AROUND WHAT'S THE RIGHT RETURN
ON INVESTMENT FOR THIS
PARTICULAR -- SOLVING THIS
PARTICULAR PROBLEM?
AND, FOR ME, I'VE COME TO THIS
REALIZATION THAT THIS IS A --
THIS REALLY NEEDS TO BE TACKLED
AS A PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE
PROBLEM, NOT AS A NICE TO HAVE,
A WANT TO HAVE KIND OF
TECHNOLOGY OR SERVICE OR
RESOURCE, RIGHT?
IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO
LIVE -- WE NEED TO LIVE NOW WITH
THIS THING.
SO WHEN WE THINK -- WHEN WE
THOUGHT OF IT THAT WAY, WE START
THINKING ABOUT, WELL, WE CAN'T
ACCEPT REALLY A FIVE-YEAR
PAYBACK OR RETURN ON INVESTMENT
FOR THESE KINDS OF PROJECTS THAT
ARE IN RURAL AND SPARSELY
POPULATED PARTS OF THE STATE.
IT IS REALLY MORE OF A 30 OR 40
YEAR INVESTMENT.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE
INFRASTRUCTURE, WE ARE NOT
TRYING TO CONSIDER AS THE RIGHT
KIND OF INFRASTRUCTURE, THOSE
ARE 30, 40, 50, 100 YEAR TYPES
OF TECHNOLOGIES.
PIVOTING OURSELVES TO THINKING
ABOUT HOW THIS IS MORE OF THAT
PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE KIND OF
CONVERSATION, LIKE, WE DO FOR
FIRE STATIONS AND SCHOOL
BUILDINGS AND SEWAGE TREATMENT
PLANTS, AND ROADS, AND FRAMING
IT THAT WAY, AND THEN FUNDING
BUILDING MECHANISMS TO ALLOW IT
TO BE PAID BACK OVER 30, 40
YEARS, THAT'S GOING TO GET US TO
A PLACE WHERE IT IS EQUITABLE.
EVERYBODY CAN HAVE THE SAME KIND
OF CONNECTION AND NOT BE
RELEGATED TO A SECOND CLASS KIND
OF CONNECTION, IF -- IF WE START
THINKING ABOUT IT THAT WAY, BUT
THAT REQUIRES PUBLIC/PRIVATE
PARTNERSHIPS, AND SO THAT SMALL
"U" THING IS DEFINITELY ONE OF
THE THINGS WE HAVE TO PUT IN
PLACE.
WE DON'T NEED TO OVERREGULATE.
WE DON'T NEED TO NOT HOLD PEOPLE
ACCOUNTABLE.
WE DO NEED TO DO THAT.
WE NEED TO FIND THAT BALANCE AND
THAT PARTNERSHIP, BUT WE GOT TO
FRAME THIS AS, THIS IS SOMETHING
THAT EVERYBODY NEEDS, AND IT IS
SOMETHING THAT WILL GET PAID
FOR, JUST LIKE WE PAY FOR
THINGS, OUR ROADS, OUR SCHOOLS,
OUR FIRE STATIONS, OUR SEWAGE
TREATMENT PLANTS IN THE SAME
KIND OF WAY.
>> TO THAT END, SHE ALSO SAID
THAT HER DISTRICT GOT A T-MOBILE
GRANT WHERE SHE WAS ABLE TO
SECURE HOT SPOTS FOR STUDENTS.
FLORENCE COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT
ADMINISTRATOR I SPOKE WITH
SECURED A PSC GRANT TO HAVE MORE
TOWERS PUT UP IN THEIR AREA TO
GET BETTER COVERAGE.
IS THIS PATCHWORK APPROACH
SUSTAINABLE, AND IS THIS THE WAY
FORWARD, OR IS THERE A MORE
UNIFIED SYSTEM THAT NEEDS TO BE
PUT IN PLACE, AND IS THAT WHAT
YOU'RE SPEAKING TO?
>> WELL, I THINK THERE HAS TO BE
SOME UNIFORMITY IN TERMS OF WHAT
OUR GOALS ARE, RIGHT?
ESPECIALLY IF WE ARE MAKING
INVESTMENTS AS A STATE, RIGHT?
I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE
ASPIRATIONAL GOALS SAYING THIS
IS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO
ACCOMPLISH.
WITH THAT SAID, I DO BELIEVE
THERE ARE VERY, VERY NUANCED
SITUATIONS FROM ONE COMMUNITY TO
ANOTHER THAT NEED TO BE TAKEN
INTO CONSIDERATION.
IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING
ON IN FLORENCE OR IN OTHER
COMMUNITIES, THEY ARE FIGURING
OUT HOW TO WORK WITH DIFFERENT
PARTNERS TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN IN
THEIR COMMUNITY.
THEY ALL NEED TO HAVE THE SAME
ASPIRATIONAL GOALSINGS RIGHT?
--
GOALSINGS RIGHT?
WE NEED THIS SPEED AND LATENCY
AND THAT SORT OF THING, BUT HOW
YOU ACTUALLY GET THERE IS GOING
TO PROBABLY BE A PARTNERSHIP
BETWEEN LOCAL GOVERNMENT
ENTITIES AND PRIVATE PARTNERS
AND OTHERS, RIGHT, THE
HEALTHCARE COMMUNITY, THE
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY,
THERE'S ALL -- ALL WHO WILL BE
PARTNERS IN FIGURING OUT HOW TO
DO THIS, AND, YOU KNOW, MARISSA,
IF YOU LOOK AROUND, THERE'S
QUITE A FEW POCKETS ACROSS THE
STATE, AND WE NEED TO LEARN WHAT
THEY ARE DOING AND EXPAND THAT
KNOWLEDGE ACROSS TO OTHER
MUNICIPALITIES AND COMMUNITIES
ACROSS THE ENTIRE STATE, TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF WHAT THEY ARE DOING
AND FIGURE THAT OUT AND NURTURE
THAT KIND OF THING EVERYWHERE
ACROSS THE STATE.
THERE'S A REALLY BUNCH OF REALLY
GOOD INNOVATIVE STUFF THAT'S
HAPPENING BETWEEN ALL OF THOSE
PARTNERS, INCOMING -- INCLUDING
SOME SMALL PROVIDERS IN THE
STATE OF WISCONSIN, TOO.
WE CAN ATTEST TO THAT JUST IN
TERMS HOW WE CONNECT KIDS.
SOME OF THE PROVIDERS HAVE
STEPPED UP, AND THEY HAVE REALLY
HELPED IN THEIR COMMUNITIES.
I MEAN, RIGHT?
THEY GO TO SCHOOL TOGETHER.
THEY SIT ON THE SCHOOL BOARD
TOGETHER.
THEY GO TO THE SAME RESTAURANTS.
THEY GO TO, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER,
LIKE, THE PANDEMIC AND WHAT HAVE
YOU, BUT THEY KNOW -- THEY KNOW
HOW TO SOLVE PROBLEMS WITHIN
THEIR COMMUNITIES, BUT WE ALSO
HAVE TO HOLD FOLKS ACCOUNTABLE
IF WE ARE MAKING PUBLIC
INVESTMENTS.
>> THE SAME FLORENCE COUNTY
SCHOOL ADMINISTRATOR SAID THAT
IT HAS SPURRED SOME ECONOMIC
DEVELOPMENT IN THEIR COMMUNITY
TO HAVE GREATER BROADBAND
ACCESS.
HAS THE OWNOUS BEEN PUT ON
SCHOOLS TO BE THE CANARY IN THE
COAL MINE FOR THIS ISSUE?
>> YOU KNOW, THAT'S AN
INTERESTING QUESTION.
WE, CERTAINLY, ENCOURAGE IT,
RIGHT?
WE ENCOURAGE OUR SCHOOL
DISTRICTS TO STEP IN AND LEAN IN
TO THIS TOPIC.
YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AROUND
WISCONSIN, RIGHT, OUR SCHOOL --
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S A
CITY, SUBURB, OR RURAL PART --
OUR SCHOOLS ARE VITAL.
REALLY ARE VITAL.
I WILL SAY, TOO, OUR LIBRARIES
ARE VITAL IN TERMS OF OUR
COMMUNITIES, AND WE WILL
ENCOURAGING THEM TO STEP INTO
THAT CONVERSATION.
PART OF IT IS WITH DATA, LIKE
THE DATA THEY ARE GATHERING
ABOUT WHO IS CONNECTED AND WHO
IS NOT.
SOME OF IT IS FUNDING.
SOME HAVE FUNDING OPPORTUNITIES
TO BE LEVERAGED NOW TO HELP
SOLVE PROBLEMS, TOO, BY POOLING
RESOURCES TOGETHER.
SO DO THEY HAVE -- DO THEY HAVE
TO BE THE CANARY IN THE COAL
MINE?
I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE TO, BUT
DO WE ENCOURAGE THEM TO DO IT?
YES.
BECAUSE THEY TRULY ARE THE LIFE
BLOOD OF A LOT OF COMMUNITIES.
ANY COMMUNITY, FRANKLY, ACROSS
THE STATE.
>> YOU'VE MENTIONED THAT FIBER
IS A GOOD LONG-TERM SOLUTION
WHEN THINKING ABOUT BUILDING OUT
THE INFRASTRUCTURE.
RECENTLY, THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE
ANNOUNCED A PILOT PROGRAM IN
VILAS COUNTY, VERY FAR NORTHEAST
COUNTY IN WISCONSIN, TO TETHER
DRONES WITH CONNECTION, AND
OTHERS WITH LOW FREQUENT
SATELLITES.
IS THIS PART OF THE PATCHWORK OF
THE FUTURE?
>> IT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
I THINK THAT, AS I SAID, AS I
THINK THAT THE OVERALL GOAL HAS
TO BE ASPIRATIONAL IN TERMS OF
TRYING TO GET FIBER EVERYWHERE.
THERE WILL STILL BE NICHES THAT
MIGHT NEED, EVEN ON A TEMPORARY
PATH TOWARDS FIBER, OTHER KINDS
OF CONNECTIONS.
THE DRONE PROVIDER IS INCREDIBLY
INNOVATIVE WITH WHAT THEY TRY TO
DO, AND THAT SHOULD BE
ENCOURAGED.
NO QUESTION IT SHOULD BE
ENCOURAGED.
WE FULLY SUPPORT THE IDEA
OURSELVES WHEN WE WERE
APPROACHED ABOUT IT, AND WE ARE
HAPPY IT'S CONTINUING FORWARD.
THOSE ARE SITUATIONS, AND IT
MIGHT BE ONE OF THOSE SITUATIONS
WHERE IN THE EXAMPLE OF NEEDING
IMMEDIATE ADDITIONAL CAPACITY
FOR SOME SORT OF AN EMERGENCY
RESPONSE, THAT MIGHT BE AN
EXCELLENT PURPOSE FOR THAT.
IN THE INTERIM, IT MIGHT BE
ANOTHER -- IT MIGHT HAVE VALUE
FOR OTHER KINDS OF PURPOSES
BETWEEN NOW AND WHEN WITH
EVERYBODY IS CONNECTED WITH
FIBER.
AS FAR AS LOW LATENCY SATELLITE,
THAT'S ANOTHER STRATEGY THAT
WILL ULTIMATELY BE A NICHE
STRATEGY BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE
THAT THERE WILL BE FIBER IN MORE
AND MORE PLACES, BUT IS IT
SOMETHING?
IS IT A CARD TO PLAY?
ABSOLUTELY IT IS A CARD TO PLAY.
I THINK THE OTHER THING I WOULD
SAY IS WITH WHERE THE STATE CAN
LEAN IN AND WHERE, YOU KNOW,
SOME OF THE BROADBAND PROPOSALS
THAT HAVE BEEN PUT IN THE
GOVERNOR'S BUDGET LEAN IN TO IS
HELPING COMMUNITIES WITH THE
PROCESS OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
WHAT'S GOING TO WORK AND WHAT'S
NOT GOING TO WORK.
YOU KNOW, IT -- IT -- YOU KNOW,
SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN WISCONSIN,
THERE'S 425 SCHOOL DISTRICTS,
RIGHT?
THE MEDIAN SIZE SCHOOL DISTRICT
IS 900 STUDENTS K-12, A
GRADUATING CLASS OF 65 KIDS.
WE'RE NOT -- THAT MEANS OVER
HALF OF THOSE, 200 DISTRICTS ARE
SMALLER THAN THAT.
WISCONSIN'S A LOT OF SMALL
TOWNS.
THAT'S GREAT!
YOU CAN'T EXPECT A LOT OF SMALL
TOWNS TO FIGURE OUT A LOT OF
COMPLEX SITUATIONS, AND THEY
SHOULDN'T HAVE TO IF THE PROBLEM
IS A REPEATING PROBLEM FROM ONE
TOWN TO ANOTHER, SO LEANING IN
AND PROVIDING SOME RESOURCES TO
HELP THEM WITH THAT JUST PROBLEM
SOLVE AND TO PLAN AND THEN,
FRANKLY, TO APPLY FOR SOME OF
THE MONEYS THAT ARE AVAILABLE,
THAT IS A REALLY SMART PLAY, AND
SO WE APPLAUD THAT, AND, AGAIN,
WE EXPECT SCHOOLS AND LIBRARIES
TO LEAN INTO THOSE CONVERSATIONS
AS WELL.
>> IT'S 2021.
WHY HAVEN'T WE GOTTEN THERE YET?
YOU SAID WISCONSIN HAS NOT MADE
THESE LONG-TERM INVESTMENTS
NECESSARY FOR BROADBAND
INFRASTRUCTURE.
LAST MONTH, GOVERNOR EVER SAID
THE BUDGET IS ALLOCATING $200
MILLION OVER TWO YEARS FOR
BROADBAND EXPANSION, AND IN THE
PAST, IN 2011, REPUBLICAN FORMER
GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER, TURNED
DOWN $23 MILLION IN FEDERAL
FUNDS.
WHAT DO WE NEED TO GET WISCONSIN
TO WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE?
WILL THAT $200 MILLION BE
ENOUGH, BUT, ALSO, WHY HAVEN'T
WE GOTTEN THERE YET?
>> WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW,
HONESTLY, LET'S BE FRANK.
PART WAS WE DIDN'T NECESSARILY
SEE IT AS A NEED BUT MORE OF A
WANT, BUT WHAT A DIFFERENCE A
PANDEMIC MAKES.
IT'S BECOME VERY APPARENT HOW
IMPORTANT IT IS TO HAVE THESE
KINDS OF CONNECTIONS, JUST TO
LIVE, WORK, PLAY.
I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE
PEOPLE, THE LIGHT HAS BEEN
TURNED ON, AND NOW FOLKS ARE
REALLY SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE'VE
GOT TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.
YOU KNOW, WITH THAT -- THAT'S
ONE BIG REASON, BUT ANOTHER
IS -- YOU KNOW, AND THEY ARE
CONNECTING THOSE DOTS TO THINGS
YOU MENTIONED EARLIER.
IT'S, LIKE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS AN
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ISSUE.
IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT
TO SEE GROWTH IN YOUR COMMUNITY
AND YOU WANT TO HAVE A CONTINUEED
MIGRATION INTO YOUR COMMUNITY,
AND, FRANKLY, THERE'S A LOT OF
FOLKS WE'RE HEARING FROM, YOU
KNOW, SCHOOL DISTRICTS WHERE
FOLKS WANT TO RELOCATE BACK INTO
THEIR TOWNS JUST BECAUSE THEY
CAN NOW THAT WE'VE CHANGED HOW
WE DO WORK, BUT MAYBE THEY CAN'T
BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ADEQUATE
BROADBAND, THAT'S A GAME CHANGER
FOR A LOT OF PLACES.
ANOTHER REASON, AGAIN, I WOULD
GO BACK TO THIS NOTION OF WE
HAVE NOT ADDRESSED THIS AS AN
INFRASTRUCTURE PROBLEM, REALLY,
IN THE PAST.
WE'VE THOUGHT OF IT AS A
COMMODITY THING, AND WHEN YOU
HAVE THE MARKETPLACE, YOU KNOW,
GETTING THINGS OUT TO FOLKED,
THE MARKETPLACE DOES WHAT IT
DOES, AND IT DOES IT WELL WHERE
THERE'S DENSELY POPULATED AREAS,
YOU HAVE MORE COMPETITION AND
MORE SERVICE PROVIDERS AND LOWER
COST AND HIGHER QUALITY SERVICE
THAN YOU ARE IN LESS DENSELY
POPULATED AREAS.
PIVOTING THIS, NOW, TO IT'S A
NEED AND UTILITY WITH A SMALL
"U" AND INFRASTRUCTURE ISSUE
GETS US TO THAT CONVERSATION OF,
WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT?
IF WE PAY FOR THIS OVER 30
YEARS, WE CAN AFFORD IT LIKE WE
DID 100 YEARS AGO WITH
ELECTRICITY.
WE DID THAT.
AND THEN PROVIDE, YOU KNOW, HAVE
THE SERVICE PROVIDERS SIT ON TOP
OF THAT INFRASTRUCTURE AND
PROVIDE HIGH QUALITY SERVICE TO
CUSTOMERS.
THOSE ARE THE MAIN REASONS, I
THINK, MARISSA, WE HAVE NOT HAD
THAT.
I DO BELIEVE THAT THE PROPOSALS
THAT HAVE BEEN PUT FORWARD BY
THE GOVERNOR ARE, CLEARLY, HUGE
STEPS IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
IF THIS IS THE YEAR OF THE
BROADBAND, THOSE PROPOSALS
CERTAINLY LINE UP BEHIND THAT,
AND I THINK IT'S ONE OF THOSE
THINGS, TOO, WHERE IT IS
CLEARLY, NOW, MORE THAN EVER,
EVERYONE SEES THIS AS A NEED,
AND ONE CAN ONLY HOPE THAT
EVERYONE WILL STEP FORWARD AND
GO, YEAH, LET'S MAKE IT HAPPEN
THIS TIME IN WISCONSIN.
NOT JUST THIS TIME, BUT FOR THE
FUTURE AS WELL.
AS I REALLY TRULY BELIEVE OUR
FUTURE DEPENDS ON THESE
CONNECTIONS, YOU KNOW, WE
WERE -- MY WIFE AND I WERE
RAISED MANY SMALL TOWN
WISCONSIN, TOO.
WE LOVE IT.
WE ARE MOVING BACK TO A SMALL
TOWN WISCONSIN AS WELL AS WE
HEAD TOWARDS RETIREMENT.
IT'S ESSENTIAL.
EVERYBODY NEEDS THIS.
WE CAN DO IT.
WE ABSOLUTELY CAN DO IT.
WE'VE DEMONSTRATED THAT IN OUR
NATION'S HISTORY IN THE PAST.
WE CAN DO IT RIGHT NOW IN THE
201st CENTURY.
>> ALL RIGHT, KURT KIEFER, STATE
ASSISTANT SUPERINTENDENT OF
PUBLIC SCHOOLS FROM THE DIVISION
OF LIBRARIES AND TECHNOLOGY,
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING
US TODAY.
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME,
MARISSA.
>> FOR MORE FROM HERE AND NOW
AND PITTSBURGH WISCONSIN -- PBS
WISCONSIN, VISIT PB SWINCE.ORG
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