HOWEVER, TODAY I HAVE HER
DOWNSTAIRS IN WHAT I CALL
"DOGGIE JAIL" AS THERE'S A
LITTLE, LIKE, KITTY DOOR, AND SO
IF YOU HEAR STRANGE CRYING IN
THE DISTANCE IN THE MIDDLE OF
THE INTERVIEW, IT'S HER WAKING
UP AND REALIZING THAT SHE'S
TRAPPED, SO --
>> OKAY.
OKAY.
>> WE'LL SEE IF THAT HAPPENS.
I DON'T THINK IT WILL, AND JUST
IGNORE IT.
>> I WON'T CALL 911 OR CHECK IN
TO SEE IF YOU'RE OKAY.
I'LL JUST ASSUME IT'S THE DOG.
>> OKAY.
SO I'M ASSUMING YOU GOT MY
E-MAIL REGARDING THE FLOW OF
QUESTIONS AND LIKE I MENTIONED,
IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY SIMILAR
TO WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT.
I APPRECIATE THE TIME IN THE
PRE-INTERVIEW.
I THINK IT JUST HELPS ME
UNDERSTAND KIND OF WHAT TO FOCUS
ON AND YOU DID A WONDERFUL JOB
WALKING THROUGH IT AS YOU ARE
JUST SO USED TO THIS BY NOW.
DID YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR
ME ABOUT THAT?
>> NO.
I THINK WE SHOULD BE GOOD.
>> I'LL BE ADDING THIS WHEN I
ASK YOU ABOUT B117, BUT IT'S
BEEN DETECTED IN MILWAUKEE NOW?
>> YEAH.
MY UNDERSTANDING IS WE GOT FIVE
CASES DETECTED IN WISCONSIN SO
FAR, TWO IN THE MILWAUKEE AREA,
ANNE I DON'T KNOW WHERE THE
FIFTH ONE IS, SO IF YOU KNOW
MORE THAN I DO, THAT'S GREAT.
YOU CAN TELL ME.
>> OKAY.
I JUST KNEW THAT THERE WAS
>>> WELCOME TO "NOON WEDNESDAY,"
I'M MARISA WOJCIK, MULTIMEDIA
JOURNALIST WITH "HERE AND NOW"
ON PBS WISCONSIN.
TODAY IS FEBRUARY 17.
SCIENTISTS HAVE BEEN GENETICALLY
SEQUENCING CORONAVIRUS TEST
SAMPLES TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HOW
THE VIRUS IS MOVING THROUGH
COMMUNITIES AND TO DETECT
EMERGING VARIANTS.
DR. PARAIC KENNY WHO HAS
SEQUENCED 1400 SAMPLES AT A
GUNNEDSON HEALTH CENTER IN
LACROSSE IS HERE TO TEACH US
ABOUT THE NOVEL CORONAVIRUS, AND
DR. KENNY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR
JOINING US.
YOUR SPECIALTY IS CANCER GENOME
SEQUENCING AS THE DIRECTOR OF A
TEAM AT THE GUNDERSEN
FOUNDATION.
WHEN DID YOU START SEQUENCING
THE CORONAVIRUS?
>> WE HAD THE FIRST CASE MARCH
18th OF LAST YEAR AND
SEQUENCED THAT FIRST VIRAL
STRAIN WITHIN A WEEK SO VERY
EARLY IN THE PANDEMIC.
WE REALIZED THE INFORMATION WE
COULD GAIN FROM SEQUENCING WAS
LIKELY TO BE ABLE TO ADD
SIGNIFICANT VALUE TO SIMPLY
KNOWING FROM DIAGNOSTIC TESTING
WHO WAS POSITIVE AND NEGATIVE.
WE WERE VERY, VERY EARLY
ADOPTERS OF THE TECHNOLOGY AND
BECAME THE 15th LAB IN THE
UNITED STATES TO SUBMIT YES
GNOME TESTING AT THAT TIME.
>> DID YOU UNDERSTAND HOW
IMPORTANT THAT PROCESS WOULD BE
WHEN YOU INITIALLY SET DOWN THAT
PATH?
>> WELL, WE UNDERSTOOD THAT THE
VIRUS HAD VERY LARGE IMPACT IN
CHINA, EUROPE, AND EVEN, YOU
KNOW, BY MARCH, IN THE UNITED
STATES AND CITIES LIKE NEW YORK
CITY AND SEATTLE SO WE KNEW THAT
IF THERE WAS ANYTHING THAT COULD
BE DONE TO TRY TO MITIGATE ITS
IMPACT HERE IN OUR REGION, ON
OUR HEALTHCARE ORGANIZATION, ON
OUR STAFF, AND ON OUR PATIENTS,
THAT WE SHOULD PROBABLY MAKE AN
EFFORT TO DO THAT, AND SO THAT
WAS THE PRIMARY REASON THAT WE
SET OFF THIS SEQUENCED VIRUS,
AND WE DID NOT REALIZE IN THAT
STAGE WE'D END UP SEQUENCING
MORE THAN 1400 SAMPLES AND BE
STILL GOING, YOU KNOW, THIS FAR
ALONG.
>> AND BACKING UP ONE STEP, SO
GENETIC SEQUENCING IS NOT
SOMETHING NEW, AT LEAST TO THE
SIGN -- SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY.
CAN YOU HELP US UNDERSTAND WHAT
EXACTLY DOES GENETIC SEQUENCING
MEAN?
>> SURE.
ALL ORGANISMS, YOU KNOW, HUMANS,
PLANTS, COWS, BUTTERFLIES, AND
VIRUSES HAVE A GENOME.
IT IS BASICALLY THE INSTRUCTION
MANUAL THAT PROVIDES ALL THE
INSTRUCTIONS HOW TO MAKE ONE OF
THESE ORGANISMS, AND VIRUSES
LIKE COVID-19 ARE NO DIFFERENT.
THE COVID-19 VIRUS HAS AN RNA
GENOME, A LONG STRING OF LETTERS
OF As, Cs, AND Ps, 29,003
OF THEM CONTAINING ALL THE
INFORMATION THE VIRUS NEEDS TO
MAKE COPIES OF ITSELF, AND TO,
YOU KNOW, ALL THE INFECTION
PROCESS TO THE POINT IT THEN
MOVES ON AND INFECTING SOMEBODY
ELSE.
WHEN THE VIRUS INFECTS SOMEBODY,
IT NEEDS TO MAKE MANY COPIES OF
ITS, AND BY TAKING SAMPLES FROM
PATIENTS IN THE INFECTION
PROCESS, WE CAN ISOLATE THE
GENETIC MATERIAL AND FIGURE OUT
END TO END WHAT THE SEQUENCE OF
THE VIRUS IS.
>> AND AS YOU ARE SEQUENCING THE
VIRUS, YOU ARE LOOKING AT WHAT
IT'S MADE OF AND HOW THOSE
DIFFERENT LETTERS ARE PATTERNED.
AS THE VIRUS MAKES COPIES OF
ITSELF, THERE ARE LITTLE
DIFFERENCES, AND THAT IS HOW YOU
ARE ABLE TO TRACK THE VIRUS.
CAN YOU HELP EXPLAIN THAT A
LITTLE BIT BETTER?
>> SURE.
SURE.
SO WHEN THE VIRUS MAKES A COPY
OF ITSELF, IT USUALLY DOES IT
EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD JOB OF DOING
THAT, BUT OCCASIONALLY IT MAKES
A MISTAKE.
THINK OF THAT AS A SPELLING
MISTAKE IN THE GENOME, A LETTER
IS NOT WHAT IT WAS ORIGINALLY.
THE THING WITH THE VIRUS IS WHEN
THAT VIRUS GOES ON TO INFECT
SOMEBODY ELSE AND LAUNCHES INTO
A CHAIN OF INFECTIONS, ALL
SUBSEQUENT INFECTIONS CAUSED BY
THAT VIRUS HAVE THAT PARTICULAR
SPELLING MISTAKE AT THAT
PARTICULAR PLACE IN THE GENOME.
BY TRACKING THE EMERGENCE AND
SPREAD OF THE SPELLING MISTAKES
IN THE VIRUS, THAT ALLOWS US TO
TRACK AND UNDERSTAND WHICH
PEOPLE IN THE POPULATION LIKELY
SHARE COMMON SOURCES OF
INFECTION, AND THAT HELPS US
UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, THINGS IN
MUCH MORE DETAIL ABOUT HOW THE
VIRUS SPREADS WITHIN POPULATIONS
THAN THE INFORMATION YOU SIMPLY
GET BY CONTACT TRACING.
IT IS A USEFUL ADJUNCT TO
CONTACT TRACING AND OTHER
MITIGATION STRATEGIES PEOPLE
HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT.
>> SO YOU CAN SEE WHERE THESE
DIFFERENCES OCCUR, AND YOU CAN
SEE WHERE THE DIFFERENCES
TRAVEL, BUT YOUR PARTICULAR LAB
IS UNIQUE IN SOME RESPECTS
BECAUSE OF YOUR PARTNERSHIP WITH
THE GUNDERSEN HEALTH SYSTEM, AND
SO YOU CAN TRACK IT EVEN MORE
PRECISELY.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT CONNECTION?
>> SURE.
SO FOR PEOPLE WHO DON'T KNOW,
GUNDERSEN HEALTH SYSTEM IS AN
INTEGRATED HEALTHCARE SYSTEM
PROVIDING CARE IN 21 COUNTIES IN
WISCONSIN, IOWA, AND MINNESOTA,
AND ONE OF THE ADVANTAGES THAT
WE HAVE AT THE START OF THE
PANDEMIC WAS ALL OF OUR COVID-19
TESTING WAS BEING DONE CENTRALLY
IN THE LAB JUST DOWN TO THE
CORRIDOR FROM MY LABORATORY, AND
SO WE WERE ABLE TO ACCESS A
LARGE NUMBER OF SPECIMENS FROM
ACROSS THIS AREA.
WE HAD APPROVAL FROM OUR
INSTITUTIONAL REVIEW BOARD HERE
AT GUNDERSEN AS A RESEARCH
PROJECT TO GET ACCESS TO THE
MEDICAL RECORDS OF ALL OF THE
PATIENTS WHO HAD COVID-19
TESTING DONE FOR, YOU KNOW,
EXTRACTING INFORMATION RELEVANT
TO THEIR COVID-19, YOU KNOW,
SYMPTOM ONSET AND THINGS LIKE
THAT, AND SO WE WERE ABLE TO
PRETTY FIRST EFFICIENTLY AND QUICKLY
BUILD THIS THAT WAS WITH THE
DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION OF THE
PATIENTS, YOU KNOW, THEIR AGE,
GENDER, AND ALL SORTS OF
COMORBIDITIES AND OTHER SORT OF
RELATED ISSUES.
>> AND SO WITH THAT INFORMATION,
YOU WERE ABLE TO TRACK WHERE THE
VIRUS WAS TRAVELING WITHIN THE
COMMUNITY SURROUNDING YOU.
LAST FALL, YOU WROTE A STUDY
FOLLOWING THE VIRUS FROM
STUDENTS COMING BACK TO CAMPUS
AND CONNECTING THAT VIRUS TO
SHOWING UP IN NURSING HOMES IN
THE AREA.
THERE WAS SOME IMMEDIATE
CRITICISM OF THE STUDY DRAWING
PREMATURE CONCLUSIONS.
MONTHS LATER, NOW, DO YOU STAND
BY THOSE FINDINGS?
>> YEAH, WE'RE STILL PRETTY
CONFIDENT THE FINDINGS WE
DESCRIBED BACK IN OCTOBER, YOU
KNOW, ARE, YOU KNOW, QUITE
ACCURATE.
SO TO -- WE HAD ABOUT 2,000
CASES OF CORONAVIRUS IN LACROSSE
COUNTY IN THE MONTH OF
SEPTEMBER.
THE MAJORITY OF WHICH WERE
ATTRIBUTABLE TO YOUNGER
INDIVIDUALS AND THE COLLEGE AGE
DEMOGRAPHIC.
WE WERE SEQUENCING VERY, VERY
AGGRESSIVELY AT THAT TIME.
WE HAD VERY, VERY GOOD KNOWLEDGE
OF THE TYPES OF SUBSTRAINS
CIRCULATING IN THAT STUDENT AGE
DEMOGRAPHIC AND THE
SUPERSPREADER EVENTS AT PARTIES
GOING ON IN LACROSSE AT THE
TIME, AND WE SEQUENCED PATIENTS
IN THE NURSING HOME, AND WE
FOUND THEY SHARED IDENTICAL
VIRUS ESSENTIALLY WITH THE
VIRUSES CIRCULATED IN THE
STUDENT POPULATION, AND SO FOR
US, I THINK THAT'S A REALLY GOOD
EXAMPLE OF HOW WHEN THE VIRUS IS
ALLOWED TO GET OUT OF CONTROL IN
ONE SETTING, WE'RE ALL VERY
CLOSELY CONNECTED, YOU KNOW,
COLLEGE CAMPUSES, LIKE MEAT
PACKING PLANTS AND ALL KINDS OF
OTHER PLACES DO NOT HAVE HIGH
WALLS AROUND THEM.
PEOPLE WHO GO THERE INTERACT
WITH OTHERS IN THE COMMUNITY,
AND IN LACROSSE IN PARTICULAR,
THERE'S A HEALTH PROFESSIONS
FOCUS IN OUR THIRD LEVEL
INSTITUTIONS SO A LOT OF THE
STUDENTS ACTUALLY WORK IN
NURSING HOMES AS CNAs AND
THINGS LIKE THAT AS PART OF
GAINING EXPERIENCE THAT THEY
NEED FOR THEIR OWN PROFESSIONAL
DEVELOPMENT, AND SO THERE ARE
VERY CLEAR LINES AND AVENUES
WHEREBE THE VIRUS COULD BE
TRANSMITTED BETWEEN ONE
POPULATION THAT'S GENERALLY
PRETTY LOW RISK AND ANOTHER
POPULATION THAT IN THIS CASE WAS
OBVIOUSLY VERY, VERY HIGH RISK.
>> ARE THERE LESSONS THAT WE CAN
LEARN FROM WHAT YOU WERE
CONCLUDING FROM THAT STUDY?
>> YEAH.
I THINK -- I THINK COLLEGE
ADMINISTRATORS AND CHANCELLORS
AND PRESIDENTS HAD A LARGE
NUMBER OF CONCERNS AS, YOU KNOW,
OVER THE SUMMER OF LAST YEAR,
CONCERNED ABOUT ENROLLMENT,
SAFETY FOR THEIR FACULTY, AND
CONCERNED ABOUT SPREAD AMONG THE
STUDENTS, BUT I DON'T THINK --
AND IT IS NOT LIMITED TO
WISCONSIN -- I THINK ACROSS THE
COUNTRY THERE WAS NOT A VERY
BROAD APPRECIATION OF THE IMPACT
THAT SOME OF THESE COLLEGE
REOPENING DECISIONS COULD HAVE
AND LIKELY WOULD HAVE ON THE
SURROUNDING COMMUNITIES.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, GOING
FORWARD, VERY IMPORTANT TO LOOK
AT THESE TYPES OF SITUATIONS,
BUT DORM LIVING, OFFCAMPUS
HOUSING AS POTENTIAL SOURCES OF
SPREAD OF INFECTIOUS PANDEMIC
DISEASES AND TO RECOGNIZE, YOU
KNOW, THIS IS A TRUE CONSTANT, A
BURDEN PLACED ON THE COMMUNITIES
AND SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED BY ALL
THE PEOPLE INVOLVED IN MAKING
THOSE DECISIONS.
>> NOW, DOES THAT POPULATION,
THE COLLEGE STUDENT POPULATION
AND STUDENTS GOING BACK TO
CAMPUS IN THAT WAY, DOES THAT
DIFFER FROM K-12 STUDENTS GOING
BACK INTO THE CLASSROOM, AS MANY
SCHOOLS ACROSS THE STATE ARE
HEADING BACK INTO CLASSROOMS.
IN MADISON, CONSIDERED TO BE THE
BELL WEATHER OF STUDENTS STAYING
OUT OF CLASSROOMS OR GOING BACK
TO SCHOOL, THEY WILL BE
RETURNING.
IS THAT HAPPENING TOO SOON, OR
CAN WE LOOK AT THOSE
POPULATIONS, COLLEGE STUDENTS,
K-12 STUDENTS?
DO WE NEED TO LOOK AT THOSE
DIFFERENTLY?
>> YEAH.
I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THEM
VERY DIFFERENTLY, AND I THINK
EVEN WITHIN K-112, BREAK OUT HIGH
SCHOOL FROM ELEMENTARY SCHOOL
AND MIDDLE SCHOOL STUDENTS.
ALL POPULATIONS HAVE THEIR OWN
RISKS AND VULNERABILITIES.
WITH THE COLLEGE AGE POPULATION,
THE BIGGEST RISK IS ALL THE
SOCIALIZING.
YOU KNOW, THE BEER PONG AND ALL
OF THAT, THINGS NOT POPULAR AT
ELEMENTARY AGE STUDENTS SO I
THINK WE NEED TO ASSESS RISK FOR
THE POPULATIONS VERY, VERY
DIFFERENTLY.
I THINK THE LITTLE KIDS FOR
REASONS OF BIOLOGY WITH THEIR
INTERACTION WITH THE CORONAVIRUS
POSE LEAST RISK.
KIDS UP IN MIDDLE SCHOOL AND
HIGH SCHOOL AGE, THEIR ANATOMY
AND PHYSIOLOGY IS SIMILAR TO
ADULTS AND SHOULD BE REGARDED AS
A SEPARATE RISK GROUP COMPARED
TO YOUNGER ELEMENTARY AGE
STUDENTS AND COLLEGE STUDENTS
ARE A HIGHER RISK LEVEL AGAIN,
BOTH FOR THEMSELVES AND
SURROUNDING POPULATION.
>> SO AS YOU WERE DESCRIBING
EARLIER, THESE COPIES CREATE
SLIGHT DIFFERENCES IN THE VIRUS,
AND THEREFORE, THEY CREATE
MUTATIONS, AND AS THOSE
MUTATIONS HAPPEN, THE VIRUS
CHANGES LITTLE BY LITTLE, AND AS
MANY PEOPLE KNOW NOW, THERE IS
ONE VARIANT THAT IS CAUSING SOME
CONCERN.
IT ORIGINATED FROM THE UNITED
KINGDOM.
IT IS KNOWN AS B117, AND IT IS
CONSIDERED TO BE MORE
CONTAGIOUS.
IT IS NOW BEEN DETECTED IN OAK
CLAIRE, WAKASHAW AND NOW
MILWAUKEE.
I WANT TO ASK FIRST IS GENETIC
SEQUENCING THE ONLY WAY TO
DETECT A VARIANT LIKE THIS?
>> GENETIC SEQUENCING IS THE
BEST WAY TO DETECT VARIANTS LIKE
THIS.
WE AND OTHERS ARE WORKING ON
TECHNOLOGIES AND DIAGNOSTIC
APPROACHES THAT SHOULD PROVIDE
MORE RAPID TURNAROUND THAN
TESTING THE ENTIRE GENOME.
A VARIANT LIKE THIS REALLY HAS A
HALLMARK OF A COUPLE SPELLING
MISTAKES TO TEST FOR, YOU KNOW,
BY THEMSELVES WITHOUT NEEDING TO
WORK OUT THE FULL 29,903
LETTERS, BUT FOR NOW, GOAL
STANDARD REALLY IS GENETIC
STANDARD, FULL ON GENETIC
SEQUENCING.
>> AND NOW THAT WE KNOW IT IS IN
COMMUNITIES IN WISCONSIN,
DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE STATE,
SHOULD WE ASSUME THAT IT IS MORE
PREVALENT THAN EVEN WHAT'S BEEN
DETECTED SO FAR?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
SO I THINK WISCONSIN IS ONE OF
THE LEADERS ACROSS THE UNITED
STATES IN STATES DOING GENETIC
SEQUENCING.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE RAW NUMBERS,
WE ARE REIGNING -- RANKS, 7th,
I BELIEVE ACROSS THE COUNTRY
EXEATING AGAINST FLORIDA AND
CALIFORNIA WITH LARGER
POPULATIONS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE RATE PER
HEAD, WE ARE SECOND PLACE IN THE
COUNTRY SO WISCONSIN IS DOING
VERY WELL AT THIS SURVEILLANCE,
BUT WE ARE STILL SEQUENCING IN
THE VERY LOW SINGLE DIGITS.
IF WE ARE SEQUENCING 2% OF
CASES, AND WE KNOW THE EXISTENCE
OF 4, THAT IS A SAFE BET THAT
THERE IS SUBSTANTIALLY MORE THAN
FOUR CASES OUT THERE, AND FROM
WHAT WE'VE SEEN WITH THE
INTRODUCTION OF THIS VIRUS TO
FLORIDA AND CALIFORNIA, WE'VE
SEEN ONCE IT GETS A FOOTHOLD, IT
TAKES OFF EFFICIENTLY.
IN FLORIDA AND CALIFORNIA, THIS
B117 IS COMPROMISING UP TO MAYBE
8% TO 10% OF CASES BEING
SEQUENCED, AND THAT'S DOUBLED,
DOUBLING EVERY TEN DAYS, AND SO
IT CLEARLY IS A MORE
TRANSMISSIBLE SUBSTRAIN, AND I
THINK IT IS ENTIRELY REASONABLE
TO BELIEVE THERE'S MORE IN
WISCONSIN THAN IS CURRENTLY
AVAILABLE FROM THE SEQUENCING
DATA.
>> AND SO AS WE ARE TRYING TO
UNDERSTAND HOW THESE DIFFERENT
VARIANTS BEHAVE, HOW THEY MOVE,
AND WHAT THEY DO TO A HUMAN ONCE
THEY ARE INSIDE A HUMAN, ARE WE
ABLE TO UNDERSTAND IF THE B117
VARIANT, FOR EXAMPLE, IS MORE
DANGEROUS OR LESS DANGEROUS THAN
THE ORIGINAL NOVEL CORONAVIRUS
THAT WE HAVE SEEN FOR THE LAST
YEAR?
>> SO THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
I'LL BREAK IT OUT AND CONSIDER
BOTH OF THOSE SEPARATELY.
SO THERE IS -- WHETHER THIS IS
STILL -- WHETHER IT IS ACTUALLY
MORE DANGEROUS OR NOT ON AN
INDIVIDUAL LEVEL IS STILL THE
TOPIC OF A LOT OF DISCUSSION.
THERE'S SOME EVIDENCE THAT IT
MAY BE AT LEAST MODERATELY MORE
SEVERE.
THE BIGGEST RISK IS DOWN TO ITS
LEVEL OF TRANSMISABILITY.
THE STRAIN HAS MORE POTENTIAL
FOR SPREAD.
EVEN IF IT IS JUST AS SEVERE OR
NO MORE SEVERE THAN THE PREVIOUS
STRAINS OF THE CORONAVIRUS, THE
FACT THAT IT CAN INFECT MORE
PEOPLE IS SIGNIFICANTLY -- IS
GOING TO BE MAKE IT MORE
DANGEROUS BECAUSE THE MORE
PEOPLE YOU INFECT, THE MORE
PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GET
SIGNIFICANTLY ILL.
>> SOME SCIENTISTS HAVE REPORTED
IN MEDIA THAT GENERALLY WHEN A
VIRUS MUTATES AND SPREADS AND
EVOLVES THROUGHOUT A POPULATION,
IT TENDS TO BECOME MORE
CONTAGIOUS, BUT LESS DANGEROUS.
ARE YOU SAYING THAT WE JUST
CAN'T DRAW THAT CONCLUSION YET?
>> I DON'T THINK WE HAVE SOLID
INFORMATION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER
FOR THAT.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THIS IS JUST
ONE SUBSTRAIN.
THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER
SUBSTRAINS THAT HAVE EMERGED.
IT IS CERTAINLY POSSIBLE SOME
ARE LESS HAZARDOUS, BUT THERE'S
CERTAINLY SOME ON OUR RADAR NOW
THAT ARE OF SIGNIFICANT CONCERN
SO I THINK ALL OF THE THINGS
WE'VE BEEN DOING SO FAR WITH
REGARDS TO MASKING, SOCIAL
DISTANCING REMAIN IMPORTANT.
>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR
WORK WITH GENETICALLY SEQUENCING
THE VIRUS AND HOW IT CONNECTS TO
VACCINES THAT ARE BEING MADE.
WAS THE WORK GENETICALLY
SEQUENCING THE VIRUS, DID THAT
HELP PRODUCING THE VACCINE?
>> SO I'LL GIVE GREAT CREDIT TO
THE CHINESE INITIALLY TO BE THE
FIRST TO BRING OUT A SEQUENCE OF
THE VIRUS VERY, VERY EARLY IN
THE PANDEMIC, BACK IN JANUARY,
AND THAT SEQUENCE FORMED THE
BASIS OF ALL THE VACCINE DESIGN
THAT TOOK PLACE, YOU KNOW,
THROUGH THE SPRING AND SUMMER OF
LAST YEAR.
THE SEQUENCING WE ARE DOING NOW
IS BEING DONE ACROSS THE WORLD
REALLY HIGHLIGHTING SOME OF THE
POTENTIAL VARIANTS THAT ARE
EMERGING THAT MIGHT CREATE RISK
THAT THERE MAY BE A VARIANT THAT
MAY ESCAPE THE EFFECTS OF THE
VACCINE, AND I THINK THAT GOING
FORWARD IS VERY IMPORTANT TO
LOOK AT BECAUSE IT WILL POINT
TOWARDS HOW WE REDESIGN
VACCINES, IF NECESSARY, WITH A
BOOSTER SHOT OR SOMETHING LIKE
THATMENT ONE OF THE VARIANTS
THAT'S EMERGED RECENTLY IN SOUTH
AFRICA CALLED B1351 IS PROBABLY
THE ONE RIGHT NOW WHERE WE HAVE
MOST CONCERN ABOUT POTENTIAL
LACK OF EFFICACY IN SEVERAL OF
THE VACCINES THAT ARE BEING USED
AT THE MOMENT.
>> TO RETOOL A VACCINE AND TO
USE THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE
ABOUT THE VARIANTS, DOES THAT
REQUIRE AS MUCH WORK AS IT TOOK
TO CREATE THE ORIGINAL COVID-19
VACCINE THAT IS BEING
DISTRIBUTED NOW?
>> NO.
THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.
THESE VACCINES ARE ESSENTIALLY,
AT LEAST THE RNA VACCINES FROM
MODERNA AND PFIZER ARE
SYNTHESIZED IN THE LAB.
THERE'S A MACHINE THAT TAKES IN
THE GENETIC CODE TO PRODUCE AND
PRODUCES THAT.
IT'S A PROBABLY KEY STROKES ALL
THAT'S NECESSARY TO RETOOL A
VACCINE TO ENCOMPASS PROTECTION
AGAINST SOME OF THE EMERGING
VARIANTS.
WHAT'S A LITTLE BIT UNCLEAR
RIGHT NOW THAT'S ACTIVELY WORKED
ON IS HOW MUCH TRIALS ARE GOING
TO NEED TO BE DONE IN A
SITUATION LIKE THAT?
CLEARLY, FOR FLU, WE HAVE NEW
FLU SHOTS EVERY YEAR WITHOUT
HAVING LARGE TRIALS IN THE
POPULATION BECAUSE WE'VE GOT A
GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF, YOU KNOW,
HOW FLU VACCINES BEHAVE, AND SO
WE -- THE TRIALS SO FAR OF THE
COVID-19 VACCINES HAVE INCLUDED
ABOUT 160,000 PEOPLE ACROSS THE
WORLD.
I CERTAINLY DO NOT BELIEVE IT'S
NECESSARY TO HAVE ANOTHER TRIAL
OF 30,000 OR SO PEOPLE TO TEST A
NEW VACCINE THAT'S MAYBE ONE
VERY, VERY MINOR DIFFERENCE.
WE, I THINK, AS A COMMUNITY,
SHOULD BE HOPEFUL THE FDA AND
OTHERS WILL SEE A FAIRLY CLEAR
PATH THROUGH TO ALLOWING THESE
VACCINE BOOSTER SHOTS TO BE USED
BROADLY AND DO THAT EFFICIENTLY
IF NECESSARY.
>> COVID-19 INFECTION RATES BOTH
IN WISCONSIN AND ACROSS THE
UNITED STATES HAVE BEEN TRENDING
DOWNWARD, AT LEAST SINCE ABOUT
JANUARY, ARE YOU ABLE TO
ATTRIBUTE THIS TO ANY ONE THING
IN PARTICULAR, AND SHOULD WE
START RELAXING SOME THINGS, LIKE
OUR CAPACITY ORDERS AND OTHER
HEALTH GUIDELINES PUT IN PLACE
TO MITIGATE THE SPREAD OF THE
VIRUS?
>> IT'S BEEN GREAT TO SEE THE
DOWN TREND IN NUMBERS OF
CORONAVIRUS CASES THAT WE'VE HAD
HERE IN WISCONSIN THESE PAST
SEVERAL WEEKS, BUT I THINK IT IS
IMPORTANT TO THINK ABOUT WHERE
THEY ARE COMING DOWN FROM.
I MEAN, WE HAD A TERRIBLE TIME
ON THE RUN INTO THANKSGIVING,
ANOTHER BUMP AFTER CHRISTMAS,
BUT NOW OUR LEVELS ARE SIMILAR
TO WHAT THEY WERE IN THE EARLY
FALL, AND, YOU KNOW, NONE OF US
WERE HAPPY ABOUT THAT LEVEL OF
COVID-19 INFECTION IN OUR
COMMUNITY AT THAT STAGE, AND
WHILE IT IS RELIEVING THAT
THINGS ARE A LITTLE BIT BETTER
THAN THEY WERE, I THINK WE
SHOULD STILL HAVE QUITE A BIT OF
CONCERN ABOUT THE LEVEL OF
DISEASE WE HAVE IN THE COMMUNITY
RIGHT NOW.
I THINK THE ROLLOUT OF VACCINE
IS PROBABLY GOING TO HELP WITH
THAT, BUT I THINK WE STILL HAVE
A LARGE FRACTION OF OUR
COMMUNITY THAT IS VULNERABLE TO
COVID-19 INFECTION, AND
SIGNIFICANT RELAXING OF THE
PROTECTIVE MEASURES THAT WE
HAVE, YOU KNOW, DONE PRETTY WELL
ON IN MANY CASES IN WISCONSIN,
WILL PLACE US AT RISK OF SEEING
AT UPSURGE.
>> AND SPEAKING OF ANOTHER
UPSURGE, COULD THE VARIANT CAUSE
ANOTHER UPSURGE?
COULD SOMEONE WHO HAS ALREADY
BEEN INFECTED WITH THE
CORONAVIRUS, NOVEL CORONAVIRUS
PERHAPS LAST YEAR, ARE THEY AT
RISK FOR SPREADING A NEW
VARIANT?
>> YEAH, THAT IS A CONCERN THAT
WE HAVE.
SO AMONG THE EMERGING VARIANTS,
THE ONE I MENTIONED THAT WAS
FIRST DETECTED IN SOUTH AFRICA,
THE B1351 IS THE MOST CONCERNING
ONE ABOUT POTENTIAL FOR
REINFECTION, SO IN THE TRIAL IN
SOUTH AFRICA FOR A VACCINE RUN,
THEY HAD SEVERAL INFECTIONS IN
BOTH ARMS OF THE TRIAL, THE
VACCINE ARM AND PLACEBO ARM,
THAT AFFECTED PEOPLE WITH PRIOR
INFECTION OF THE CORONAVIRUS.
THERE'S ANOTHER STRAIN
DETECTEDDED IN BRAZIL INITIALLY
IN THE AMAZON REGION CALLED P1,
AND THAT REGION OF BRAZIL WAS
HIT VERY, VERY HARD BY COVID-19
IN THE SUMMER, BUT YET IN, YOU
KNOW, OCTOBER AND NOVEMBER, THEY
WERE HIT HARD AGAIN BY A SECOND
SURGE WITH REPORTS OF AT LEAST
COMING OUT OF REINFECTIONS
ATTRIBUTABLE TO THIS P1 STRAIN,
WHICH WAS DETECTED A COUPLE OF
WEEKS AGO IN MINNEAPOLIS SO
THERE ARE CERTAINLY SOME
CONCERNS OUT THERE RIGHT NOW
ABOUT THE POTENTIAL FOR
REINFECTION WITH SOME OF THESE
EMERGING SUBSTRAINS, AND IT'S
BEEN GOOD TO SEE MOST OF THE
PEOPLE WHO HAD COVID-19 SO FAR
DO SEEM TO HAVE AN ENDURING
PROTECTION LASTING THIS LONG AND
NONE OF US KNOW HOW LONG MORE
IT'S GOING TO LAST WITHOUT
VACCINATION, THERE'S CERTAINLY
CONCERN, PARTICULARLY WITH SOME
OF THESE IMMUNE ESCAPED VARIANTS
THAT REINFECTIONS MAY BECOME A
PROBLEM.
>> SO WE'RE NOT OUT OF THE WOODS
QUITE YET.
YOU KNOW, THE UNITED STATES
GENERALLY LAGS BEHIND OTHER
COUNTRIES IN THIS ENDEAVOR OF
GENOME SEQUENCING FOR THE
CORONAVIRUS.
WISCONSIN IS AHEAD OF THE PACK
IN TERMS OF OTHER STATES.
WHY IS THAT?
>> I THINK WISCONSIN CAN TAKE
GREAT PRIDE IN HOW WELL WE ARE
DOING COMPARED TO SOME OF THE
STATES AND REGIONS, MULTISTATE
REGIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY,
WHICH HAVE BEEN BLACK HOLES FOR
SEQUENCING WHERE WE REALLY DON'T
KNOW WHAT'S GOING ONMENT I THINK
WISCONSIN GOT QUITE LUCKY.
THERE WAS FOLKS IN MADISON,
PROFESSORS AND DOCTORS THAT WERE
GOOD AT SEQUENCING, AND ME IN
LACROSSE THAT HAD LARGE INTEREST
IN SEQUENCING, BUT DID NOT KNOW
ANYTHING ABOUT INFECTIOUS
DISEASE, BUT THERE WAS A
COLLECTION OF PEOPLE WHO HAD THE
EQUIPMENT AND EXPERTISE AND ALSO
REALIZATION THAT SOMETHING LIKE
THIS WAS GOING TO BE IMPORTANT.
IT WAS AT A TIME WHEN THERE WAS
A REAL VACUUM IN LEADERSHIP IN
THE COUNTRY FROM THE CDC AND
OTHERS ABOUT PROVIDING GUIDANCE
ABOUT HOW SOMETHING LIKE THIS
COULD BE DONE, AND SO IT REALLY
WAS A GRASSROOTS EFFORT, AND
IT'S, YOU KNOW, GRASSROOTS
EFFORT WHERE PEOPLE ARE
COLLABORATING ACROSS THE COUNTRY
AND ORGANIZATIONS LIKE OURS TO
PRODUCE THE DATA IN THE ABSENCE
OF, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST FOR A
LONG TIME, A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT
OF LEADERSHIP AND GUIDANCE FROM
OVERHEAD SO I THINK WE'VE BEEN
VERY LUCKY IN WISCONSIN THAT
WE'VE GOT GOOD SUPPORT FOR
RESEARCH AND SUPPORT FOR THE
PEOPLE LIKE US WHO HAVE BEEN
DOING THIS TYPE OF SEQUENCING.
>> EARLIER THIS MONTH, SENATOR
TAMMY BALDWIN INTRODUCED
LEGISLATION TO EXPAND THIS TYPE
OF WORK.
DO YOU SEE THAT AS BEING
NECESSARY, EVEN AS THE VACCINE
IS BEING ROLLED OUT, WE'RE
SEEING CASES TREND DOWNWARD, DO
YOU THINK WE STILL NEED TO RAMP
THIS UP, AND HAVE YOU WORKED
WITH THE CDC AT ALL ABOUT THIS
EFFORT?
>> NOT ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR
EFFORT, BUT THE CDC, THE OFFICE
OF ADVANCED DIAGNOSTICS FOR
SINCE THE SUMMER, EARLY SUMMER
OF LAST YEAR HAS HAD A
COORDINATING ACTIVITY CALLED
SPEERS, A VARIETY OF
INVESTIGATORS LIKE MYSELF AND
OTHERS FROM ACROSS THE COUNTRY
INVOLVED AT ANY LEVEL IN THIS
KIND OF SEQUENCING, AND THAT'S
NOT REALLY PROVIDED ANY
FINANCIAL SUPPORT, BUT IT HAS
BEEN AN EXCELLENT ORGANIZATIONAL
AND COORDINATING INFLUENCE ON
ALL OF THESE EFFORTS.
IT IS GREAT NOW TO SEE FROM
SENATOR BALDWIN AND OTHERS A
STRONGER PUSH AT THE FEDERAL
LEVEL TOWARDS PROVIDING ACTUAL
SUPPORT FOR THIS GENETIC
SEQUENCING, AND I THINK,
ESPECIALLY WITH THE EMERGING
VARIANTS, IT IS IMPORTANT FOR,
YOU KNOW, AT LEAST FOR, YOU
KNOW, MANY, MANY MORE MONTHS TO
TRACK THEIR EMERGENCE AND
UNDERSTAND HOW WE MAY NEED TO
RETOOL THESE VACCINES, IF
NECESSARY.
>> FOR THE FOLKS AT HOME, HOW
SHOULD THEY INCORPORATE THIS
INFORMATION INTO THEIR DAILY
LIVES?
>> I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE
MESSAGE IS FOR NOW ARE THE SAME
AS THE MESSAGES WE'VE HAD, YOU
KNOW, SINCE THE START OF THE
PANDEMIC.
YOU KNOW, TRY TO LIMIT YOUR
BUBBLES, LIMIT YOUR
DISCRETIONARY CONTACT, WASH YOUR
HANDS, DO YOUR SOCIAL
DISTANCING.
NOW THAT WE GOT THE VACCINES,
GET IN THE LINE FOR VACCINE.
I THINK THE ROLLOUT OF THE
VACCINE IS SLOWER THAN MANY OF
US WOULD LIKE, BUT AT THE SAME
TIME, IT'S BEEN GREAT TO SEE THE
EAGERNESS OF VERY, VERY LARGE
SECTIONS OF THE POPULATION TO
GET VACCINATED SO THAT'S GOING
TO HAPPEN OVER THE COMING
MONTHS, AND I THINK AS THE
VACCINE PENETRATES MORE DEEPLY
INTO THE COMMUNITY, WE ALL WILL
BE FEELING MORE PROTECTED, BUT
IN THE MEANTIME, ESPECIALLY WITH
SCHOOLS GOING BACK LIKE WE'VE
DISCUSSED, NOW IS THE TIME TO
DOUBLE DOWN ON ALL OF THE
PREVENTATIVE EFFORTS WE'VE BEEN,
YOU KNOW, SO WELL TRAINED ON
OVER THE PAST MANY MONTHS.
>> I THINK MANY WERE
DISAPPOINTED TO LEARN ABOUT
THESE VARIANTS WHEN WE WERE
ALREADY FEELING SO MUCH COVID
FATIGUE.
DO YOU IN YOUR WORK SEE A
LIABILITY AT THE -- LIGHT AT THE
END OF THE TUNNEL?
>> OH, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY A
LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL.
I MEAN, I THINK NONE OF US, YOU
KNOW, BACK IN MARCH, APRIL, MAY
OF LAST YEAR HAD A HOPE WE'D
HAVE EVEN ONE VACCINE WITH MORE
MORE THAN 50% EFFICACY AND NOW
WE HAVE A RANGE OF VACCINES WITH
90% EFFICACY PRODUCED IN LESS
THAN A YEAR WHICH IS A HUGE
ACHIEVEMENT.
THE VARIANTS ARE A CONCERN, BUT
AS DISCUSSED, YOU KNOW, THERE'S
A VERY, VERY CLEAR PATH WITHIN
THAT VACCINE TECHNOLOGY TO
RETOOLING FOR BOOSTER SHOTS, AND
SO THERE IS ABSOLUTELY A LIGHT
AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL.
HOPEFULLY, WE'LL GET THERE SOON.
>> DR. PARAIC KENNY, THANK YOU
VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US TODAY.
FOR MORE FROM "HERE AND NOW" ON
PBS WISCONSIN, VISIT
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