TEST TEST.
>> NEARLY 200 WALGREENS ARE
RECEIVING MORE THAN 17,000 DOSES
OF THE VACCINE THROUGH THE
FEDERAL RETAIL PHARMACY PROGRAM
AND PEOPLE HAVE BEEN ABLE TO
SIGN UP FOR APPOINTMENTS ON
THEIR WEBSITE.
ALSO, ROCK COUNTY WILL HOST THE
STATE'S FIRST COMMUNITY VACCINE
CLINIC NEXT TUESDAY, WITH MORE
SUCH CLINICS BEING PLANNED.
NOW TURNING TO POLITICAL NEWS,
DID WHAT HAPPENED TEN YEARS AGO
IN WISCONSIN USHER IN AN ERA OF
EXTREME PARTISAN DIVIDE HERE AND
ACROSS THE NATION?
FORMER REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR SCOTT
WALKER... ?
>> THE FOLLOWING PROGRAM IS A
PBS WISCONSIN ORIGINAL
PRODUCTION.
>> THEY SAY DON'T CALL, BUT I
CALL ANYWAY.
AND THEY SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW,
EITHER WE DON'T HAVE -- WE RAN
OUT OF THE VACCINE OR WE DON'T
HAVE IT OR WE DON'T KNOW WHEN
WE'RE GOING TO GET IT.
THEY SAY THAT.
>> PEOPLE LONG SINCE ELIGIBLE IN
SEARCH OF A VACCINATION.
DESPITE A WEEK WHEN WISCONSIN
SOARS TO THE TOP IN PER CAPITA
SHOTS IN THE NATION.
AS A LEGAL CHALLENGE TO GOVERNOR
EVERS THE LATEST MASK MANDATE
TAKE SHAPE.
>> I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
TONIGHT ON "HERE AND NOW," AN
84-YEAR-OLD WOMAN STRUGGLING TO
FIND A VACCINATION.
ACT 10 TURNS TEN YEARS OLD.
THE LASTING IMPACT OF THE BUDGET
REPAIR BILL, THE 2011 LAW THAT
ENDED COLLECTIVE BARGAINING IN
WISCONSIN.
AND WE'LL EXAMINE THE POLITICS
OF THE ONGOING U.S. SENATE
IMPEACHMENT TRIAL OF DONALD
TRUMP.
IT'S "HERE AND NOW" FOR FEBRUARY
12.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.
>> WISCONSIN HAS ADMINISTERED
MORE THAN 900,000 DOSES OF THE
COVID-19 VASKS.
VACCINE.
BUT EVEN AS THE STATE HAS BECOME
A NATIONAL LEADER, SOME FEEL
THEY ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND.
SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER ZAC
SCHULTZ HAS ONE WOMAN'S STORY.
>> I'M ON THE LIST, BUT I NEVER
GET CALLED.
>> JACKIE ROSS HAS BEEN ON THE
PHONE TO NEARLY EVERY HEALTH
CARE PROVIDER IN SOUTHERN
WISCONSIN LOOKING TO SEE WHEN
SHE CAN GET THE COVID-19
VACCINE.
>> AND I HAVE BEEN CALLING ALL
OVER.
IT DOESN'T DO ANY GOOD, BUT I DO
IT.
>> JASKKY JACKIE IS 84 YEARS OLD AND
HAS CANCER AND TAKES CARE OF HER
PARTNER WHO IS 86 AND DISABLED.
>> I'M REALLY DESPERATE TO GET A
VACCINATION BECAUSE I KNOW THA --
THAT MY FORM OF CANCER IS
VULNERABLE WITH THIS.
>> THEY GETS PRIMARY CARE FROM A
SMALL CLINIC IN MADISON AND THIS
IS WHAT SHE HEARS WHEN SHE CALLS
FOR INFORMATION.
>> WE HAVE A VERY LIMITED SUPPLY
OF COVID-19 VACCINES.
WE ARE CURRENTLY CALLING
PATIENTS TO SCHEDULE OVER THE
AGE OF 80 WHO MEET THE CRITERIA
OR UNTIL WE NO LONGER HAVE A
SUPPLY.
WE UNDERSTAND THAT OUR PATIENTS
ARE EAGER FOR THE VACCINE, BUT
WE ASK THAT YOU NOT CALL THE
CLINIC FOR VACCINE UPDATES.
WE ARE UNABLE TO PLACE PATIENTS
ON A WAIT LIST OR PROVIDE A
FURTHER UPDATE AS OF YET.
>> I THINK THAT THE CLINIC IS
NOT GETTING ADEQUATE SUPPLIES.
>> JACKIE SAYS SHE HAS FRIENDS
ALL OVER THE STATE THAT ARE
YOUNGER THAN HER THAT HAVE
RECEIVED THEIR FIRST DOSE.
>> I'M BEYOND FRUSTRATED.
I'M REALLY UPSET.
>> WHILE JACKIE FEELS LEFT
BEHIND, SHE'S NOT ALONE.
>> WE RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE A
LOT OF FOLKS THAT KIND OF FIT A
SIMILAR DESCRIPTION.
>> TESS ELLENS IS THE COVID
VACCINE DEPUTY FOR PUBLIC HEALTH
MADISON DANE COUNTY.
>> WE'RE DEFINITELY HEARING THE
FRUSTRATION OF PEOPLE THAT ARE
WAITING.
>> SHE SAYS THE STATE HAS BEEN
RECEIVING AROUND 70,000 DOSES
EACH WEEK.
>> LAST WEEK, THE REQUEST TO THE
STATE FOR THE STATE OF
WISCONSIN, THE ASK WAS 290,000
DOSES OF VACCINE.
SO THOSE NUMBERS ARE CLEARLY NOT
ADDING UP.
>> UNFORTUNATELY FOR JACKIE, THE
FACT HER INDEPENDENT CLINIC IS
SO SMALL MAY HURT THEM.
>> BECAUSE OF OUR DISTRIBUTION
SYSTEM, IT IS CHALLENGING FOR US
TO MAKE DELIVERIES OF ONLY 30,
40, 50 VACCINES.
SO WE'VE SET A FLOOR OF AT LEAST
50 VACCINES.
I KNOW SOME HAVE ASKED FOR THAT
AND STILL NOT RECEIVED THEM JUST
BECAUSE, AGAIN, OF THAT -- THAT
CHALLENGING VACCINATION SUPPLY
ISSUE.
>> WE ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT SOME
PEOPLE THAT ARE WITH INDEPENDENT
CLINICS MIGHT NOT BE GETTING
VACCINE AS QUICKLY AS LARGER
HEALTH CARE SYSTEMS.
>> PUBLIC HEALTH MADISON DANE
COUNTY DOES OFFER VACCINATIONS
BUT THEY'RE PRIORITIZING
UNDERSERVED GROUPS.
>> FOLKS THAT DON'T HAVE A
PRIMARY CARE PROVIDER, THOSE
THAT DON'T HAVE HEALTH
INSURANCE, THINGS LIKE THAT.
>> JACKIE GETS HER CANCER
TREATMENT THROUGH UW HEALTH, SO
SHE ASKED THEM.
>> AND JUST BECAUSE MY CANCER
DOCTOR IS AT THE UW, I CAN'T GET
IT THERE.
>> UW HEALTH IS VACCINATING
5,000 PEOPLE A WEEK AND WORKING
DOWN TO PATIENTS IN THEIR 60s.
THEY EXPLAINED WE HAVE RECEIVED
CLEAR GUIDANCE THAT HEALTH
SYSTEMS ARE EXPECTED TO
VACCINATE THEIR PAIRCHTS AS PATIENTS AS PART
OF THE OVERALL EFFORT AND THAT
HAS BEEN INTERPRETED LOCALLY AS
MEANING THOSE PATIENTS WHO
RECEIVE THEIR PRIMARY CARE
WITHIN YOUR SYSTEM.
>> I DON'T KNOW HOW SOMEONE OUR
AGE, 84 AND 86, ARE SUPPOSED TO
BE SCROUNGING AROUND LOOKING FOR
A VACCINE.
>> IN THE END, JACKIE WILLFUL
LIKELY JUST HAVE TO KEEP
WAITING.
>> THE BEST THING YOU ARE IS IF
YOU ARE CONNECTED WITH A HEALTH
CARE PROVIDER, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO
WAIT A LITTLE BIT.
>> REPORTING FROM MADISON, I'M
ZAC SCHULTZ FOR "HERE AND NOW."
>> FOR PEOPLE LIKE JACKIE ROSS
HAVING TROUBLE TRYING TO GET A
VACCINE, NEARLY 200 WALGREENS IN
WISCONSIN ARE RECEIVING MORE
THAN 17,000 DOSES OF THE VACCINE
THROUGH THE FEDERAL RETAIL
PHARMACY PROGRAM AND PEOPLE HAVE
BEEN ABLE TO SIGN UP FOR
APPOINTMENTS ON THEIR WEBSITE.
ALSO, ROCK COUNTY WILL HOST THE
STATE'S FIRST COMMUNITY VACCINE
CLINIC NEXT TUESDAY, WITH MORE
SUCH CLINICS BEING PLANNED.
NOW TURNING TO POLITICAL NEWS,
DID WHAT HAPPENED TEN YEARS AGO
IN WISCONSIN USHER IN AN ERA OF
EXTREME PARTISAN DIVIDE HERE AND
ACROSS THE NATION?
FORMER REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR SCOTT
WALKER INTRODUCED HIS BUDGET
REPAIR BILL, ACT 10, IN 2011.
THE ACT CUT $800 MILLION IN
FUNDING FROM K-12 SCHOOLS AND
BACKFILLED THAT BY REQUIRING
PUBLIC EMPLOYEES TO PAY INTO
THEIR RETIREMENT AND HEALTH CARE
BENEFITS.
IT ALSO HOBBLED PUBLIC UNIONS
AND THEIR COFFERS.
WHAT WALKER CALLED A MODEST
CHANGE RESULTED IN A
HISTORY-MAKING STORM OF PROVE
TESTS AT THE CAPITOL.
WE SHARE THE REPORT WE PRODUCED
IN 2011.
[CHANTING AND SHOUTING]
>> SCOTT WALKER IS A GOOD
GOVERNOR.
HE'SDOING NOTHING MORE THAN HE
SAID HE WOULD DO.
>> THIS IS MAKING CHANGES IN
TERMS OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING
PROCESS.
>> AND IT ESSENTIALLY KILLED
IEWN YIEWNS FOR
UNIONS FOR TEACHERS AROUND THE
STATE.
>> THERE'S A COST TO EVERYTHING
AND WISCONSIN IS BROKE.
>> I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE A
SHOCK TO ANYBODY.
>> SCOTT WALKER HAS GOT TO GO!
>> I BELIEVE THE PEOPLE OF THE
STATE ELECTED ME AND THE
LEGISLATURE TO BE BOLD AND
AGGRESSIVE.
[CHANTING AND SHOUTING]
>> THIS IS MAKING CHANGES IN
TERMS OF THE COLLECTIVE
BARGAINING PROCESS SO THAT WE
CAN ACCURATELY AND EFFECTIVELY
GET THE SORT OF MODEST CHANGES
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN IT
COMES TO HEALTH CARE AND PENSION
CONTRIBUTIONS.
>> IT'S ONE THING TO DO FISCAL
BUSINESS.
IT'S ANOTHER THING TO DO
POLITICAL BUSINESS AND TAKE
PEOPLE'S RIGHTS AWAY.
>> WISCONSIN IS BROKE AND THAT'S
WHY I MADE THE TRIP DOWN HERE
FROM WAUSAU TODAY.
I'M -- I'M -- I'M CONCERNED.
I HAVE TWO LITTLE BOYS.
I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR
FUTURES.
>> THESE MODEST CHANGES ARE
REASONABLE.
>> THIS IS NOT A MODEST
PROPOSAL.
THIS IS A RADICAL PROPOSAL.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT PUTS --
IT UPENDS YEARS AND DECADES OF
LABOR RELATIONS.
>> THIS BILL IS ABOUT AN ASSAULT
ON WORKERS' RIGHTS AND IT
DOESN'T NEED TO HAPPEN.
>> SENATOR, WE HAVE NOTHING TO
GIVE.
THE STATE IS BROKE.
>> THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE
TAXPAYERS OF THE STATE NEED TO
BE HEARD AS WELL.
[CHANTING AND SHOUTING]
>> IT BECOMES OBVIOUSLY JUST
SORT OF A WAITING GAME.
IT'S A WAY TO PROTEST THE
PROCESS.
I TREMENDOUSLY DISAGREE WITH THE
PROCESS.
I DISAGREE WITH THE BILL.
>> WE FIND OURSELVES IN A
SITUATION WHERE NOW WE'RE ON
FINAL PASSAGE, AND WE'RE
WAITING.
I MEAN, WE'RE WAITING FOR ONE
DEMOCRATIC SENATOR TO SHOW UP
FOR WORK.
>> WE CAN BALANCE THE BUDGET ON
THE CONCESSIONS THAT THE UNIONS
HAVE ALREADY DONE.
THIS IS STRICTLY UNION BUSTING.
THAT'S ALL IT IS.
>> NO, YOU CAN'T.
>> YOU CAN'T DENY WORKERS THEIR
RIGHTS.
>> YOU KNOW AND I KNOW T. YOU
CAN'T BALANCE THIS BUDGET ON THE
CONCESSIONS THAT THE UNIONS ARE
WILLING TO MAKE RIGHT NOW.
THERE'S NOT A CHANCE F..
IF YOU DON'T MAKE CHANGES TO
COLLECTIVE BARGAINING AND ALLOW
THE FLEXIBILITY FOR MAYORS
THROUGHOUT THE STATE THEY WON'T
SURVIVE THE CUTS COMING IN THE
GOVERNOR'S BUDGET NEXT WEEK.
>> THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT
YOU TO DO.
>> WE NEED A COMMITMENT TO THE
FUTURE SO OUR CHILDREN DON'T
FACE EVEN MORE DIRE CONSEQUENCES
THAN WHAT WE FACE TODAY.
>> THE KIDS IN THIS STATE, THE
STUDENTS IN THE STATE DIDN'T
CREATE THIS MESS AND
UNFORTUNATELY LOOKS TO ME LIKE
THE BUDGET IS BEING BALANCED ON
THEIR BACKS.
>> YOU'RE TAKING A QUIZ, PLEASE,
QUIETLY.
>> WE CAN MANAGE THESE CUTS,
FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET THROUGH
THIS BY ASKING MORE FROM OUR
EMPLOYEES FOR BENEFITS THEY
RECEIVE AND WE CAN MANAGE THOSE
CUTS.
>> WE'RE JUST TRYING TO MAKE
EVERYONE PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE.
>> THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY.
THIS IS ABOUT PROTECTION.
IT'S ABOUT SAFETY.
IT'S ABOUT WORKING CONDITIONS.
>> WHAT IS MOST IMPORTANT AND
WHAT THESE PEOPLE ARE VITALLY
CONCERNED ABOUT IS THAT THEIR
RIGHT TO A VOICE IN THE
WORKPLACE THAT HAS BEEN
ESTABLISHED HERE FOR 60 YEARS
DOESN'T DISAPPEAR IN FIVE DAYS.
>> CALL THE ROLL.
>> NO.
NO.
>> CALL THE ROLL.
>> GOVERNMENTAL BODY SHOULD
PROVIDE 24 HOURS NOTICE.
>> THERE ARE 18 AYES, ONE NO.
THE CONFERENCE REPORT IS
ADOPTED.
>> WE FEEL IT'S THE RIGHT THING
TO DO TO GET THIS STATE ON THE
RIGHT TRACK.
WE FEEL IT.
>> YOU ARE VOTING WITH A GIANT
STORM CLOUD ABOVE YOUR HEAD.
>> CHARADE IS UP.
>> VOTE AYE.
NOTE NO.
THE CLERK WILL OPEN THE ROLL.
[CHANTING AND SHOUTING]
>> WE WERE ELECTED TO MAKE TOUGH
DECISIONS LAST NOVEMBER TO
ENSURE THAT WE DIDN'T PASS THESE
TOUGH DECISIONS ONTO OUR
CHILDREN AND THE NEXT GENERATION
AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'VE
DONE HERE TODAY.
[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]
?
[CHEERS AND APPLAUSE]
?
>> WE'RE JUST ASKING TO BE
TREATED FAIR.
THAT'S ALL.
[CHANTING AND SHOUTING]
>> ONE BOOK AUTHOR SAID GOVERNOR
WALKER TRADED ON THE POLITICS OF
RESENTMENT IN HIS SWEEPING
CHANGES TO THE STATUS QUO IN
WISCONSIN.
ANOTHER AUTHOR AND JOURNALIST
REPORTING AT THE TIME IS A
CAPITOL CORRESPONDENT WROTE A
BOOK ON ACT 10 CALLED "MORE THAN
THEY BARGAINED FOR."
HE'S NOW RESEARCH DIRECTOR AT
THE POLICY FORUM AND JOINS US TO
DISCUSS THE POLITICAL
IMPLICATIONS OF ACT 10 A DECADE
LATER.
HEY, JASON.
THANK YOU FOR DOING THIS.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> WE WERE JUST TALKING OFF AIR
A LITTLE BIT ABOUT OUR REACTIONS
AS JOURNALISTS WHEN THIS
HAPPENED AND I WANT TO JUST
START THIS BY ASKING YOU THAT.
AS YOU SAID IN THE PRESS ROOM
THERE, IN THE CAPITOL, AND YOU
WATCHED THIS UNFOLD, WHAT WERE
YOU THINKING?
>> WELL, YOU JUST HAD THIS
OVERWHELMING SENSE OF BEING A
WITNESS TO HISTORY RIGHT IN
FRONT OF YOU, EVENTS THAT WERE,
YOU KNOW, NOT NEARLY DRAWING
NATIONAL ATTENTION, BUT
INTERNATIONAL ATTENTION.
AND SO IN THAT SENSE AT LEAST
IT'S MUCH LIKE THE EVENTS THAT
WE'VE SEEN IN THE PAST YEAR,
WHERE YOU'RE JUST AWARE IN REAL
TIME THAT HISTORY IS UNFOLDING
IN FRONT OF YOU.
>> YEAH.
INDEED.
SO AS TO THE IMPACTS OF ACT 10,
THE KIND OF CLIFF NOTES VERSION
OF IT IS THAT TAXES ARE DOWN AND
SCHOOL SPENDING IS DOWN, BUT
HELP US PUT A LITTLE MORE MEAT
ON THAT.
WHY AND WHY?
WHY TAXES DOWN?
WHY IS SCHOOL SPENDING DOWN AS A
RESULT?
>> YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT THAT
THAT'S THE CASE WHEN YOU COMPARE
WISCONSIN TO OTHER STATES AROUND
THE COUNTRY.
YOU KNOW, I MEAN, ONE KEY AREA
OBVIOUSLY IS IN THE AREA OF
EMPLOYEE BENEFITS.
SO, YOU KNOW, PRIOR TO ACT 10,
WISCONSIN RANKED VERY HIGHLY IN
TERMS OF SPENDING ON PUBLIC
EMPLOYEE BENEFITS, TEACHERS, FOR
INSTANCE.
ACT 10 REQUIRED HIGHER
CONTRIBUTIONS FOR PENSION AND
HEALTH BENEFITS FOR MOST STATE
AND LOCAL EMPLOYEES, AND SO THAT
REALLY SHIFTED THAT EQUATION AND
IT RESULTED IN, YOU KNOW,
WISCONSIN GOING FROM LEADING THE
COUNTRY IN THINGS LIKE EMPLOYEE
BENEFIT SPENDING TO BEING BELOW
THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.
NOW, IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE
THAT THAT ISN'T JUST ABOUT
PEOPLE'S BENEFITS BECAUSE THOSE
HIGHER CONTRIBUTIONS ALSO LED TO
LOWER TAKE-HOME PAY.
SO IT'S LOWER COST FOR STATE AND
LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, BUT ALSO
REDUCED COMPENSATION FOR THEIR
EMPLOYEES.
>> SO IN 2021, WHERE DOES THAT
PUT WISCONSIN K-12 SCHOOLS?
>> IT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
YOU KNOW, WE HAVE SEEN, AS YOU
SAID, PER-PUPIL SPENDING FALL
FROM ABOVE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE
IN WISCONSIN TO BELOW IT AND
THAT IS -- AS THAT HAS HAPPENED,
OUR TAXES AT THE STATE AND LOCAL
LEVEL IN WISCONSIN HAVE FALLEN
FROM BEING IN THE TOP TEN
NATIONALLY TO BEING 23rd TO
BEING REALLY BELOW THE NATIONAL
AVERAGE.
AND THAT HAS HAPPENED REALLY
DESPITE THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE
SEEN BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN
LOCAL SCHOOL REFERENDA PASS IN
RECENT YEARS.
SO YOU'VE SEEN TAXES FALL,
YOU'VE SEEN SCHOOL SPENDING FALL
AT LEAST RELATION TO OTHER
STATES AND YOU HAVE SEEN
INCREASINGLY SOME VOTERS AT THE
LOCAL LEVEL BEING WILLING EVEN
ON A SORT OF BIPARTISAN BASIS IN
RED AND BLUE COMMUNITIES TO
INCREASE THEIR OWN PROPERTY
TAXES TO HAVE ADDITIONAL
SPENDING FOR THEIR SCHOOL
DISTRICT.
>> ALL RIGHT.
SO WHAT DID ACT 10 DO TO UNIONS?
>> WELL, I MEAN, THAT'S ONE OF
THE MOST PRONOUNCED IMPACTS THAT
YOU SEE.
EVEN BEFORE ACT 10, YOU HAD
FALLING UNION MEMBERSHIP AS A
SHARE OF THE OVERALL WORKFORCE
AND I THINK THERE'S EVERY REASON
TO THINK THAT THAT WOULD HAVE
CONTINUED TO HAPPEN EVEN WITHOUT
ACT 10.
BUT IT'S CLEARLY THE CASE THAT
YOU SAW THAT ACCELERATE.
BECAUSE REALLY ONE OF THE FEW
AREAS OF STRENGTH FOR UNIONS
PRE-ACT 10 WAS PUBLIC EMPLOYEES.
AND OBVIOUSLY THERE WAS A
PRECIPITOUS DROP IN MEMBERSHIP
LEVEL FOR PUBLIC EMPLOYEES.
AND IT'S WORTH NOTING THAT FOR
EVERYTHING THAT WE'RE TALKING
ABOUT, THERE'S BOTH WHAT ACT 10
DID, WHICH WAS REALLY A VERY
NARROW PIECE OF LEGISLATION.
IT WAS SWEEPING, BUT IT WAS ONLY
UP TO A POINT.
AND A WHOLE CHANGE IN GOVERNANCE
AND PHILOSOPHY THAT WAS USHERED
IN BY REPUBLICAN MAJORITIES THAT
CAME INTO POWER IN 2011.
AND SO EVEN ON THE ASPECT OF
UNIONS, WE SEE RIGHT TO WORK,
WHICH AFFECTED PRIVATE SECTOR
UNIONS.
THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN AS PART OF
ACT 10.
BUT IT AND IN 2015.
BUT ACT 10 CERTAINLY OPENED THE
DOOR TO A LOT OF THESE CHANGES
THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
>> WELL, AS TO THE POLITICS OF
ACT 10, DO YOU FEEL AS THOUGH
ACT 10 MARKED THE END OF
BIPARTISANSHIP IN WISCONSIN?
>> WELL, IT CERTAINLY WAS A VERY
LENGTHY PAUSE.
I THINK IT CERTAINLY
RECONFIGURED THE TIMES WE'RE
LIVING IN NOW WHERE PEOPLE SEE
SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG
WITH THE OTHER SIDE.
NOT JUST INCORRECT, BUT WRONG.
AND YOU SAW BOTH ON THE -- THE
DEMOCRATS SAW THIS ATTEMPT TO
REALLY REPEAL MOST UNION POWER
AS GOING TOO FAR, BEING
OUTRAGEOUS.
AND THEN WHEN THE SENATE
DEMOCRATS LEFT THE STATE CAPITOL
TO DENY A QUORUM AND A VOTE ON
ACT 10 AND WENT TO ILLINOIS,
REPUBLICANS REALLY SAW THAT AS
AN ILLEGITIMATE ACT.
AND SO YOU JUST HAD EITHER SIDE
BEING SORT OF UNWILLING TO
RECOGNIZE THE OTHER AS A
LEGITIMATE ACTOR IN GOOD FAITH
TRYING TO DO SOMETHING POSITIVE
FOR THE STATE.
>> YES.
WELL, WE LEAVE IT THERE.
JASON STEIN, THANKS VERY MUCH.
WITNESS TO HISTORY.
THANKS A LOT.
>> PUBLIC EDUCATION AND THE
STATE BUDGET WERE IN THE NEWS
THIS WEEK, WITH A PARTY-LINE
VOTE AMONG MEMBERS OF THE JOINT
FINANCE COMMITTEE.
THE COMMITTEE BACKED A
REPUBLICAN MEASURE THAT WOULD
CONNECT THE FLOW OF SOME FEDERAL
COVID DOLLARS TO THE AMOUNT OF
IN-PERSON INSTRUCTION A GIVEN
SCHOOL DISTRICT CONDUCTS.
THE COMMITTEE CO-CHAIR SAID IT
WOULD BE AN INCENTIVE FOR
SCHOOLS TO OPEN UP.
GOVERNOR EVERS REVEALED SEVERAL
ITEMS HE'LL INCLUDE IN HIS
BUDGET ADDRESS NEXT TUESDAY.
AMONG THEM, A PROPOSAL THAT
WOULD LEGALIZE THE SALE OF
RECREATIONAL AND MEDICAL
MARIJUANA IN WISCONSIN.
A CALL FOR $150 MILLION FOR
ADDITIONAL MENTAL HEALTH CARE
SERVICES AND AN EXPANSION OF
BADGERCARE.
A PROPOSED $43 MILLION FOR
ECONOMIC PROGRAMS FOR STATE
FARMERS AND GOVERNOR EVERS WILL
REQUEST $140 MILLION FOR STATE
CHILD CARE SERVICES.
GOVERNOR EVERS' BUDGET ADDRESS
WILL BE BROADCAST LIVE ON PBS
WISCONSIN ON THE WISCONSIN
CHANNEL TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 16, AT
7:00 P.M.
>> THE IMPEACHMENT TRIFLE TRIAL OF
FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP
CONTINUES INTO THE WEEKEND.
IT'S LIKELY HE WILL BE ACQUITTED
BECAUSE NOT ENOUGH REPUBLICAN
SENATORS WILL VOTE TO CONVICT
HIM AFTER THE DEADLY ATTACK ON
THE U.S. CAPITOL.
HIS DEFENSE, HE HAD A FIRST
AMENDMENT RIGHT TO SPEAK OUT.
ARGUMENTS IN FAVOR OF
CONVICTION?
THAT DONALD TRUMP'S REPEATED
CALLS TO STOP THE STEAL
UNLEASHED HIS SUPPORTERS.
OUR NEXT GUEST IS A FORMER
REPUBLICAN OF SOME WAY WITH HIS
LONG-RUNNING CONSERVATIVE TALK
RADIO PROGRAM IN WISCONSIN.
HE WENT FROM A NEVER-TRUMPER TO
VOTING FOR JOE BIDEN.
HE'S THE FOUNDER AND EDITOR OF
THE WEBSITE THE BULWARK.
CHARLIE SYKES JOINS US NOW TO
GIVE US HIS TAKE ON THE
IMPEACHMENT TRIAL AND MORE.
AND THANKS A LOT FOR JOINING US.
>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.
>> SO WHY DO YOU THINK DONALD
TRUMP SHOULD BE CONVICTED IN
THIS IMPEACHMENT TRIAL?
>> WELL, IF INCITING AN
INSURRECTION IS NOT IMPEACHABLE,
IF THAT DOES NOT CROSS A RED
LINE, THEN WHAT WOULD BE
IMPEACHABLE?
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS THE
HOUSE MANAGERS DID VERY
EFFECTIVELY THIS WEEK WAS TO PUT
WHAT HAPPENED IN CONTEXT, THAT
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES IS USING THE POWER OF HIS
OFFICE TO MOBILIZE A MOB TO
ATTACK CONGRESS TO PREVENT IT
FROM COUNTING THE ELECTORAL
VOTES TO OVERTURN A FREE AND
FAIR ELECTION SO HE CAN HOLD ON
TO POWER.
THIS IS WHY THE FOUNDERS
ACTUALLY CREATED I THINK A
PROVISION FOR IMPEACHMENT OF THE
PRESIDENT.
>> YET DONALD TRUMP DID NOT JOIN
IN THE ATTACK.
HOW CAN HE BE BLAMED FOR IT AND
HOW CAN RHETORIC ALONE MAKE HIS
SUPPORTERS STORM THE HALLS OF
CONGRESS.
>> IT'S NOT JUST JANUARY 6.
THE ROLE OF THE BIG LIE, YOU
HAVE TO ASK YOURSELF, IF DONALD
TRUMP HAD NOT LIED ABOUT THE
RESULTS OF THE ELECTION, WOULD
THIS HAVE HAPPENED?
WOULD FIVE PEOPLE HAVE DIED?
AND I THINK THAT THE ANSWER TO
THAT IS OBVIOUS, THAT DONALD
TRUMP FOMENTED THIS.
HE LAID THE KINDLING WOOD FOR
IT.
HE POURED THE KEROSENE OVER IT
AND THEN HE TOSSED A MATCH.
THERE'S A LOT OF WHAT ABOUTISM,
BUT THIS IS NOT JUST ANOTHER
PROVE TEST OR BURNING DOWN THE
711.
THIS WAS AN ATTEMPT TO STOP THE
CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES
FROM PERFORMING A CORE
CONSTITUTIONAL FUNCTION, TO
COUNT THE ELECTORAL VOTES.
THAT'S WHAT DONALD TRUMP WANTED.
HE WANTED TO DELAY THAT PROCESS
AND THE MOB WAS DOING IT.
SO IT IS UNPRECEDENTED IN
AMERICAN HISTORY.
>> IN FACT HIS DEFENSE SAID HE
WAS ENGAGING IN PROTECTED FREE
SPEECH AND THEY TRIED TO CREATE
THIS EQUIVALENCY WITH BLACK
LIVES MATTER PROTESTS.
WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THOSE
DEFENSES?
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S A BAD
FAITH ARGUMENT BECAUSE THERE IS
NO EQUIVALENCY BETWEEN
PROTESTORS WHO MAY COMMIT ACTS
OF VIOLENCE OR OF VANDALISM AND
A CONCERTED ATTACK ON THE
CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES.
THE CONTEXT MATTERS HERE.
THIS IS PART OF THE PRESIDENT OF
THE UNITED STATES EFFORT TO
OVERTURN THIS ELECTION.
HE TRIED IN THE COURTS.
HE FAILED.
HE TRIED TO GET LEGISLATORS TO
OVERRIDE THE POPULAR VOTE.
HE FAILED.
HE TRIED TO BULLY SECRETARIES OF
STATE AND GOVERNORS INTO DOING
IT.
HE FAILED OVER AND OVER AND OVER
AGAIN UNTIL THE ONLY THING HE
HAD LEFT WAS THIS MOB.
AND UNFORTUNATELY THEY CAME VERY
CLOSE.
THIS IS THE OTHER POINT.
THEY CAME VERY CLOSE TO ACTUALLY
STOPPING THE PROCESS OF CHOOSING
A NEW PRESIDENT.
AND THIS WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED
BUT FOR THE WORDS AND THE
ACTIONS OF DONALD TRUMP.
>> SO IF TRUMP IS ACQUITTED,
WHICH IS EXPECTED, WHY WON'T
REPUBLICAN SENATORS VOTE TO
CONVICT?
>> WELL, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THIS
HAS BEEN THE LONG-RUNNING
PATTERN OF REPUBLICANS WHO HAVE
REFUSED TO STAND UP AGAINST
DONALD TRUMP.
IF THERE WAS ANY MOMENT WHEN
THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE A MOMENT
TO SAY THAT WE'RE MOVING ON FROM
TRUMP, THIS WOULD BE IT.
I THINK THE EVIDENCE WAS
OVERWHELMING.
I THINK THAT HIS CONDUCT WAS SO
EE GREEFNLG
EGREGIOUS.
THEY LOSE NOTHING.
AND I THINK THIS IS ONE OF THOSE
MOMENTS WHERE MEMBERS OF THE
SENATE AND HOUSE HAVE TO ASK
THEMSELVES WHAT COMES FIRST,
COUNTRY OVER PARTY?
DO I TAKE MY OATH OF OFFICE
SERIOUSLY?
OR SHOULD I BE WORRIED ABOUT
MEAN TWEETS AND A PRIMARY
CHALLENGE?
I THINK THIS IS A VERY, VERY
CLEAR VOTE.
BUT I ALSO THINK THIS IS ANOTHER
INDICATION OF THE FACT THAT THE
REPUBLICAN PARTY JUST CAN'T QUIT
DONALD TRUMP.
THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO DO IT.
>> WELL, YOU SAY THAT IT IS HARD
FOR YOU TO WATCH THE
TRUMPIFICATION OF THE REPUBLICAN
PARTY IN WISCONSIN.
WHAT IS THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S
HOLD ON THAT PARTY AND ITS
ELECTED OFFICIALS HERE?
>> I FIND IT REALLY
EXTRAORDINARY, BECAUSE THIS WAS
NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU SAW EVEN
UNDER RONALD REEF REAGAN OR GEORGE W.
BUSH.
THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS BECOME
A CULT OF PERSONALITY, THAT WHAT
HAD ONCE BEEN SIMPLE PARTISAN
POLARIZATION HAS NOW BECOME A
KIND OF RAW TRIBAL DISAIFTION.
BUT IT IS DIFFICULT IN WISCONSIN
BECAUSE AS YOU REMEMBER
WISCONSIN WAS ONE OF THE
BULWARKS AGAINST TRUMP DURING
THE PRIMARIES.
THIS WAS ONE OF THE FEW
REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES HE LOST.
THERE WAS TREMENDOUS SKEPTICISM
ABOUT TRUMP.
YET YOU LOOK ACROSS THE PARTY
AND LOOKING AT ELECTED OFFICIALS
AND THEY HAVE ALMOST TO A PERSON
BECOME TRUMP LOYALISTS.
>> CHARLIE SYKES, THANKS VERY
MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU.
>> A FINAL NOTE BEFORE WE CLOSE.
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 16 IS THE
PRIMARY ELECTION DAY FOR STATE
SCHOOL SUPERINTENDENT.
FOR COMPLETE PROFILES ON ALL
SEVEN CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR THE
OFFICE, GO TO WISCONSIN WISCONSIN VOTE
DOMPLEGHT AND THAT IS OUR
PROGRAM FOR TONIGHT.
I'M FREDERICA FREYBERG.
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND.
>> FUNDING FOR "HERE AND NOW" IS
PROVIDED BY THE FOCUS FUND FOR
JOURNALISM AND FRIENDS OF PBS
WISCONSIN.