WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:08.960 on the design review board wanted to point out that they're getting away from some of these 00:08.960 --> 00:16.080 standards that are in the draft table, primarily cement fiber, and you know, making sure that 00:16.080 --> 00:22.320 Hardy Plank, LP Hardy Plank is allowed in that, it's not specifically in there, but he wanted to 00:22.320 --> 00:28.400 say that's a more, that's a common treatment that he wanted to see in there. The other ones were, 00:28.480 --> 00:34.960 for example, like a wood siding, it's kind of prohibited downtown, but inventors, half of that 00:34.960 --> 00:42.480 building is a wood siding and it works. So just pressing for a little more flexibility in some of 00:42.480 --> 00:49.280 the language in the code. And lastly, the idea of could there be special guidelines for corner 00:49.280 --> 00:55.440 buildings downtown? I think that was even discussed when we were doing early discussions on building 00:55.440 --> 01:03.440 heights and corner elements, and just make sure that that shows up in the code. And there's just 01:03.440 --> 01:09.120 two things I wanted to bring specifically to the commission, and that's regarding building heights. 01:09.120 --> 01:15.120 We've got to touch down that last month, and I just want to get some clarification. So mainly, 01:15.120 --> 01:20.960 you know, the building measurements, the way we do that with flat roofs, those are pretty clear. 01:20.960 --> 01:27.200 So if we go with a hip or the gable, it's kind of at the midpoint. So if we decided, you know, 01:27.200 --> 01:34.320 give me direction and input on a 38 foot max height outside of downtown, that would be measured to 01:34.320 --> 01:40.320 the middle of the gable. And so let's just take a look at, you know, that example from last month. 01:40.320 --> 01:46.320 It's not the best example, but looking at spring harbor, there was no ridgeline, 38 feet would be 01:46.320 --> 01:54.880 kind of at the midpoint of the gable. So you would have, you know, 38 for 42 feet allowances. 01:54.880 --> 02:02.080 So I talked to Graf about this, and I thought, you know, I've seen, I've seen where some cities 02:02.640 --> 02:08.720 have used them, they go up to the peak of the gable as that maximum height. So last month, 02:08.720 --> 02:15.520 that would be 38 feet. The drawback is, you know, I think you can get a little variation with 02:16.320 --> 02:22.640 roof lines and angles. And it kind of allows, you know, it's not the building per se, it kind of 02:22.640 --> 02:27.760 gives a little variety to the heights. So I just wanted to bring that to your attention. So if 02:27.760 --> 02:32.000 we're going to go with, you know, if we end up with that 38 foot maximum building height, 02:32.960 --> 02:39.040 you know, the flat roofs and the shed roofs and mansides, that's all fine. But we come to 02:39.040 --> 02:46.240 hips and gables, you know, we can go with 38 or the 38 max at the midpoint and allow for a 02:46.240 --> 02:53.840 little variety of roof line. Or if you're a little more stricter, then we can just say 38 at the peak. 02:53.840 --> 02:56.160 So that's the question I wanted to throw at you. 02:56.160 --> 03:01.680 Mr. Reyer, do you have any comments on that? 03:06.000 --> 03:08.800 Mr. Reyer? Yeah, I mean, I've always supported 03:10.880 --> 03:18.160 the shorter height. I did look at it again, and it always just sticks out to me in like the business 03:18.160 --> 03:27.040 districts. It seems to be like 35 or 40 feet for business building. So, you know, it just seems to be 03:28.720 --> 03:35.360 a consistent way to do it would be stick around that 35 to 40 feet for residential too. 03:36.640 --> 03:40.960 Otherwise, you have residential buildings. Yeah, residential is, yeah, 03:41.840 --> 03:46.400 I think it's 32 feet is for maximum residential heights. 03:47.040 --> 03:52.720 Okay, even as of now, even in like the multifamily district, or was that taller? 03:55.360 --> 03:58.720 No, it's about about 32 feet. Yeah, okay. 04:01.280 --> 04:02.960 Mr. Architect, thoughts? 04:03.840 --> 04:13.040 I've always seen it, my experiences is that it's been to the average, the middle of the gable. 04:15.680 --> 04:21.520 The reason being is what ends up happening is if you go to the peak and everybody wants more headroom 04:21.520 --> 04:28.720 or whatever, they'll start flattening the roofs. And then you don't get the appropriate roof pitches 04:28.800 --> 04:33.200 and things like that, that you would want to see, you know, you would want to see a steeper roof 04:34.560 --> 04:40.720 in certain areas. You get a variety of roof angles. Yeah, that would be my only thing. And that's 04:40.720 --> 04:48.080 how I've seen it. In most most communities that I've had to work in, they've always kind of gone to 04:48.080 --> 04:55.600 the middle of the gable. And, you know, in the case of this spring harbor, you know, there's a 04:55.600 --> 05:00.720 ridgeline. So we would just go up to that. I mean, you know, for when the gable is the peak, 05:00.720 --> 05:05.920 then you go with that middle of the gable, that's all. So they wanted to go with a steeper roof. 05:05.920 --> 05:14.320 Yeah, exactly. You could go with a steeper roof, but you're not going to be able to go too much 05:14.320 --> 05:20.480 higher. Yeah, it's like what four to six feet on a typical building. And that's just the half of 05:20.480 --> 05:27.040 the gable point. Because, you know, you go any less than this, and it's really going to look 05:27.040 --> 05:33.760 inappropriate as far as pitch wise, it's going to really feel out of place for that apartment building. 05:40.720 --> 05:45.520 I guess my thought on that is I do like when you're standing up on the hill over like over 05:45.600 --> 05:50.800 this little park here, and you look down on downtown and you see the the the various 05:50.800 --> 05:57.920 rosin and I guess the the fabric of the roscapes that that you see out there. I do like the variety 05:57.920 --> 06:02.560 versus where we get everything that's all starts to become a flat roof. 06:04.480 --> 06:09.360 Creates a canyon effect on those regions and that's everything's just big in boxy. 06:10.240 --> 06:12.800 Mr. Reyer, what are you thinking? 06:16.480 --> 06:20.160 I'm just wondering how that affects. How does that affect the overall height then? If somebody 06:20.160 --> 06:25.520 wants to do like a three story building, and you're going to the the middle as an architect, 06:25.520 --> 06:31.040 how do you design that? If it's important to them to have that third story, do you end up, 06:31.040 --> 06:37.680 like you said, squishing things? Or do you end up extending it in play with it? 06:37.760 --> 06:45.760 And where you you start playing with the roof pitches, number one is because that's the easiest 06:45.760 --> 06:52.560 thing to do. But number two, then you start looking at, well, maybe it's two and a half stories and 06:52.560 --> 07:01.040 you start getting the residential within the roof portion, you know, like like in a house, 07:01.040 --> 07:10.400 like an attic. So it becomes more lofty. So that those are the ways you play with it. 07:11.360 --> 07:16.400 But again, it's it's kind of a, you know, you're really trying to hit that, 07:17.520 --> 07:23.120 probably train go as far as you can with that, you know, with that piece. 07:23.120 --> 07:27.680 Yeah, because you know the architectural part of it, but I'm thinking ahead for discussions 07:27.680 --> 07:34.080 that'll be had here and at the Council of, you know, how does that height and the measuring of 07:34.080 --> 07:39.280 that interact with how many times there'd be the temptation to end up here again asking for the. 07:39.280 --> 07:44.880 No, and that's that's what I really wanted to avoid was yeah, and that wishy-washyness of it. 07:44.880 --> 07:49.760 Yeah, and so I'm wondering how do you best, how do you clarify it in the code so that 07:50.640 --> 07:55.760 you minimize those putting people and designers and architects in that pinch of 07:56.480 --> 08:01.520 the balance between wanting to make it look good without having to come in and ask for that, you 08:01.520 --> 08:08.080 know, like here's the business part of it. So I need these, these floors, these stories, 08:09.600 --> 08:13.040 but then the architects want to make it look a certain way and then they're 08:13.920 --> 08:19.440 does that create issues if you do like that to the middle or just to the peak and then you say 08:19.440 --> 08:24.640 this is as tall as you can go. You can't go any taller, you can't come in for an exception 08:25.600 --> 08:31.280 except for in like the downtown area and then just make it work. Like however you want to get 08:31.280 --> 08:37.840 there is up to you as the architect and the builder, but just to avoid putting the plan commission 08:37.840 --> 08:43.120 at a council in that conundrum of wanting to approve a project because it looks nice, 08:43.120 --> 08:48.320 but then you're getting into the how do you make it look nice without going above the cap? 08:49.200 --> 08:55.600 Well, what do the experts say, Bob, when they're consulting us on how to address this? 08:56.320 --> 09:02.960 I threw the question, Adam, and they said kind of what Mike said. They said, you know, if you go 09:02.960 --> 09:09.920 with that half point of the or the gable, you get allowing for the lower angled roofs and a little 09:09.920 --> 09:14.480 more variety. Otherwise, what Mike said, they flatten out. 09:16.320 --> 09:27.280 I would say that, you know, that that midpoint is I mean, if they go up and they got this really 09:27.280 --> 09:31.040 super like, I mean, what it would looking at a steeple or something and then all of a sudden, 09:31.040 --> 09:36.960 well, you know, that that works. But, you know, at some point, it's not as long as you hit that 09:36.960 --> 09:44.240 midpoint. There should be no ask to go higher or anything. It's your midpoint needs to be at this 09:44.240 --> 09:53.040 point. How would you accomplish that? Do you have to put special wording in there so that? 09:54.080 --> 10:00.000 No, it's like this. I mean, it just shows the midpoint of this like this image is the midpoint 10:00.000 --> 10:12.400 that's 38 feet. I don't know. I would be okay with this, I think, because I don't see, I mean, 10:13.360 --> 10:20.240 across the street, the the answer development across the street. Those are steeper roofs. 10:21.040 --> 10:27.360 And so if you would have put a point on that, everything would squat down because he still needed 10:27.360 --> 10:36.480 to get that third floor in there. He's already used the loft portion of it, you know, the attic 10:36.480 --> 10:44.560 portion. The top floor has pitch, pitch ceilings and things like that. Okay. Whereas you wouldn't 10:44.560 --> 10:52.240 be able to, you wouldn't be able to do that if you had a lower pitch road. I don't know. 10:53.120 --> 11:00.720 And what do I do? Just add a few feet on top of the 38, you know, above the midpoint of the 11:00.720 --> 11:08.880 gable. And it's essentially, you know, the peak space. And I think your point is, I want to make 11:08.880 --> 11:15.200 it as clear as possible. I don't want them to come back and say, well, yeah, except this or. 11:16.640 --> 11:20.400 Because it puts everybody in an opposition when you get the first round of the project, 11:20.400 --> 11:25.600 the proposal, everything looks good. We're going to stick with this second go around. 11:28.160 --> 11:32.880 Which is usually what happens. Yeah. And so I'm just trying to help staff, the commission, 11:32.880 --> 11:38.160 everybody just make it easy and expedite the approval process for people by being clear. 11:39.280 --> 11:42.960 So I guess Bob, with the consultants, I would ask that, you know, if we if we go with this, 11:42.960 --> 11:47.760 we just make sure to pull the language from one of the most restrictive codes out there that's 11:48.400 --> 11:51.760 of best practice that we can adopt for the city of Port Washington. So we're not 11:53.680 --> 11:59.280 no future planning commission sitting there, calling balls, you know, going outside of this 11:59.280 --> 12:03.840 right zone and figuring stuff out. We want to be able to just very clearly say yes or no. And we 12:03.840 --> 12:08.560 also wanted to make sure that the planner had the authority to stop that before it even came 12:08.560 --> 12:13.520 for a discussion like, no, this is what the law says. And there's limited exemptions for that. 12:14.080 --> 12:18.000 All right. Very good. Are we all in agreement on that? 12:18.800 --> 12:24.880 Robert, I appreciate that. Yeah. And then one last height question I wanted to put towards you. 12:25.920 --> 12:33.920 In the dimensional building dimensional chapter, you know, it allows it has garages or accessory 12:33.920 --> 12:41.760 buildings. And it talks about the graduates and set up to be like similar what our draft ADU 12:41.760 --> 12:49.360 language has is accessory garage or detached garage can be no higher than the principal building. 12:49.360 --> 12:56.000 So if the highest point of the principal building is going to be 32 feet, you know, the garage will 12:56.000 --> 13:03.200 be shorter than the principal building rather than just saying 15, 20, 25 feet. That's where we are 13:03.200 --> 13:10.560 now. That should get it kind of gets around and really take out the special exceptions for garage 13:10.560 --> 13:17.440 heights. And it's but it's going to be, you know, little it's going to be a little more liberal, 13:17.440 --> 13:22.560 though, it's going to be lower than your house. The peak of your garage is going to be has to be 13:22.560 --> 13:32.000 lower than the top of your house. And that's kind of how we define, you know, that when we did the 13:32.000 --> 13:37.440 ADU ordinance, it's how do you for an ADU has to be just shorter than the principal building 13:37.920 --> 13:44.960 when when when Kyle was on the commission architect sat down with him and that was 13:45.840 --> 13:49.840 kind of I thought it was a really good, flexible way to do this without getting into 13:52.000 --> 13:57.440 variants of special exceptions, but you still have a diminutive difference between principal 13:57.440 --> 14:03.280 and accessory. So just wondering if you're okay with that. And this is this can be 12 inches, 14:03.760 --> 14:09.120 right? Yeah. So just as long as there's some offset there, because I mean, there's a lot of 14:09.120 --> 14:13.840 homes now being built where they're utilizing that space above the garage. That's why we went 14:13.840 --> 14:22.800 with that lane one foot. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. It has to be shorter than the 14:22.800 --> 14:30.160 yeah, than the principal. Okay. And then what is it? Is there a minimum? We could. I mean, you could 14:30.160 --> 14:37.120 just say not higher than 99. There's ways to do it language wise. If you want it like they come 14:37.120 --> 14:42.000 in with one in shorted, two inches, six inches, two feet. What looks good from an architectural 14:42.000 --> 14:45.680 standpoint, when you're sitting on the street or you're walking up to somebody's house. 14:48.240 --> 14:56.080 Knowing that an attached detached garage is set back from the house too. Yeah. I mean, if you think 14:56.080 --> 15:05.120 about it, so well, I don't know if I can answer that. I mean, it all depends on the style of the 15:05.120 --> 15:13.200 house. And you know, I would say no less than 12 inches, because it's got to, it's got to at least 15:13.200 --> 15:18.800 look significant that it's shorter. You know what I mean? So that you know, the house is the house 15:18.800 --> 15:23.920 and the garage. Yes. Yes. Because you could, you could in the future, you know, somebody could. 15:23.920 --> 15:35.760 Some people's garages are awful. Right. I would say, I would say 12 inches maximum. 15:36.560 --> 15:39.520 All right. I mean, I'll go with that. Are you going with that, Tina? 15:40.800 --> 15:46.240 Yeah. I appreciate that recommendation. Again, it depends on how far back if it's attached, 15:46.240 --> 15:51.520 set back. If it's set back like 35, 40 feet, I can really see one foot variance. 15:51.520 --> 15:54.240 No, you're not going to notice that. Yeah. And then if there's any grade, 15:55.600 --> 16:00.480 one, you can have a garage that's smaller, but higher up on the lot. And so, yeah. So one foot 16:00.480 --> 16:07.360 sounds awesome. Okay. Bob, is there another slide? No. That is it. Any other questions, Bob? And 16:07.360 --> 16:14.720 then what is the timeline for us to look at the final zoning code language and approve for a 16:14.720 --> 16:20.080 recommendation to this? Part of it is the part of that equation is having the consultants get 16:20.080 --> 16:27.440 everything back. They're tweaking their attorney for the project reviews. I'm going to give myself 16:27.440 --> 16:34.880 a little bit of lead time or rope and just say September. Okay. All right. Thank you for that. 16:35.520 --> 16:38.560 With that, then friends, we are at the end of our agendas. There's someone willing to make 16:38.560 --> 16:45.920 a motion to adjourn. Moved by Ms. Mock. Is there a second? Seconded by Mr. Strom. All in favor 16:45.920 --> 16:53.760 signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Speeding is adjourned. Go Pirates.