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on the design review board wanted to point out that they're getting away from some of these

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standards that are in the draft table, primarily cement fiber, and you know, making sure that

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Hardy Plank, LP Hardy Plank is allowed in that, it's not specifically in there, but he wanted to

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say that's a more, that's a common treatment that he wanted to see in there. The other ones were,

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for example, like a wood siding, it's kind of prohibited downtown, but inventors, half of that

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building is a wood siding and it works. So just pressing for a little more flexibility in some of

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the language in the code. And lastly, the idea of could there be special guidelines for corner

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buildings downtown? I think that was even discussed when we were doing early discussions on building

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heights and corner elements, and just make sure that that shows up in the code. And there's just

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two things I wanted to bring specifically to the commission, and that's regarding building heights.

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We've got to touch down that last month, and I just want to get some clarification. So mainly,

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you know, the building measurements, the way we do that with flat roofs, those are pretty clear.

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So if we go with a hip or the gable, it's kind of at the midpoint. So if we decided, you know,

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give me direction and input on a 38 foot max height outside of downtown, that would be measured to

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the middle of the gable. And so let's just take a look at, you know, that example from last month.

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It's not the best example, but looking at spring harbor, there was no ridgeline, 38 feet would be

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kind of at the midpoint of the gable. So you would have, you know, 38 for 42 feet allowances.

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So I talked to Graf about this, and I thought, you know, I've seen, I've seen where some cities

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have used them, they go up to the peak of the gable as that maximum height. So last month,

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that would be 38 feet. The drawback is, you know, I think you can get a little variation with

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roof lines and angles. And it kind of allows, you know, it's not the building per se, it kind of

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gives a little variety to the heights. So I just wanted to bring that to your attention. So if

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we're going to go with, you know, if we end up with that 38 foot maximum building height,

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you know, the flat roofs and the shed roofs and mansides, that's all fine. But we come to

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hips and gables, you know, we can go with 38 or the 38 max at the midpoint and allow for a

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little variety of roof line. Or if you're a little more stricter, then we can just say 38 at the peak.

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So that's the question I wanted to throw at you.

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Mr. Reyer, do you have any comments on that?

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Mr. Reyer? Yeah, I mean, I've always supported

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the shorter height. I did look at it again, and it always just sticks out to me in like the business

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districts. It seems to be like 35 or 40 feet for business building. So, you know, it just seems to be

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a consistent way to do it would be stick around that 35 to 40 feet for residential too.

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Otherwise, you have residential buildings. Yeah, residential is, yeah,

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I think it's 32 feet is for maximum residential heights.

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Okay, even as of now, even in like the multifamily district, or was that taller?

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No, it's about about 32 feet. Yeah, okay.

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Mr. Architect, thoughts?

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I've always seen it, my experiences is that it's been to the average, the middle of the gable.

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The reason being is what ends up happening is if you go to the peak and everybody wants more headroom

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or whatever, they'll start flattening the roofs. And then you don't get the appropriate roof pitches

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and things like that, that you would want to see, you know, you would want to see a steeper roof

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in certain areas. You get a variety of roof angles. Yeah, that would be my only thing. And that's

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how I've seen it. In most most communities that I've had to work in, they've always kind of gone to

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the middle of the gable. And, you know, in the case of this spring harbor, you know, there's a

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ridgeline. So we would just go up to that. I mean, you know, for when the gable is the peak,

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then you go with that middle of the gable, that's all. So they wanted to go with a steeper roof.

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Yeah, exactly. You could go with a steeper roof, but you're not going to be able to go too much

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higher. Yeah, it's like what four to six feet on a typical building. And that's just the half of

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the gable point. Because, you know, you go any less than this, and it's really going to look

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inappropriate as far as pitch wise, it's going to really feel out of place for that apartment building.

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I guess my thought on that is I do like when you're standing up on the hill over like over

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this little park here, and you look down on downtown and you see the the the various

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rosin and I guess the the fabric of the roscapes that that you see out there. I do like the variety

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versus where we get everything that's all starts to become a flat roof.

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Creates a canyon effect on those regions and that's everything's just big in boxy.

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Mr. Reyer, what are you thinking?

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I'm just wondering how that affects. How does that affect the overall height then? If somebody

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wants to do like a three story building, and you're going to the the middle as an architect,

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how do you design that? If it's important to them to have that third story, do you end up,

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like you said, squishing things? Or do you end up extending it in play with it?

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And where you you start playing with the roof pitches, number one is because that's the easiest

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thing to do. But number two, then you start looking at, well, maybe it's two and a half stories and

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you start getting the residential within the roof portion, you know, like like in a house,

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like an attic. So it becomes more lofty. So that those are the ways you play with it.

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But again, it's it's kind of a, you know, you're really trying to hit that,

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probably train go as far as you can with that, you know, with that piece.

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Yeah, because you know the architectural part of it, but I'm thinking ahead for discussions

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that'll be had here and at the Council of, you know, how does that height and the measuring of

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that interact with how many times there'd be the temptation to end up here again asking for the.

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No, and that's that's what I really wanted to avoid was yeah, and that wishy-washyness of it.

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Yeah, and so I'm wondering how do you best, how do you clarify it in the code so that

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you minimize those putting people and designers and architects in that pinch of

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the balance between wanting to make it look good without having to come in and ask for that, you

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know, like here's the business part of it. So I need these, these floors, these stories,

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but then the architects want to make it look a certain way and then they're

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does that create issues if you do like that to the middle or just to the peak and then you say

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this is as tall as you can go. You can't go any taller, you can't come in for an exception

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except for in like the downtown area and then just make it work. Like however you want to get

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there is up to you as the architect and the builder, but just to avoid putting the plan commission

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at a council in that conundrum of wanting to approve a project because it looks nice,

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but then you're getting into the how do you make it look nice without going above the cap?

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Well, what do the experts say, Bob, when they're consulting us on how to address this?

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I threw the question, Adam, and they said kind of what Mike said. They said, you know, if you go

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with that half point of the or the gable, you get allowing for the lower angled roofs and a little

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more variety. Otherwise, what Mike said, they flatten out.

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I would say that, you know, that that midpoint is I mean, if they go up and they got this really

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super like, I mean, what it would looking at a steeple or something and then all of a sudden,

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well, you know, that that works. But, you know, at some point, it's not as long as you hit that

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midpoint. There should be no ask to go higher or anything. It's your midpoint needs to be at this

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point. How would you accomplish that? Do you have to put special wording in there so that?

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No, it's like this. I mean, it just shows the midpoint of this like this image is the midpoint

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that's 38 feet. I don't know. I would be okay with this, I think, because I don't see, I mean,

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across the street, the the answer development across the street. Those are steeper roofs.

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And so if you would have put a point on that, everything would squat down because he still needed

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to get that third floor in there. He's already used the loft portion of it, you know, the attic

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portion. The top floor has pitch, pitch ceilings and things like that. Okay. Whereas you wouldn't

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be able to, you wouldn't be able to do that if you had a lower pitch road. I don't know.

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And what do I do? Just add a few feet on top of the 38, you know, above the midpoint of the

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gable. And it's essentially, you know, the peak space. And I think your point is, I want to make

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it as clear as possible. I don't want them to come back and say, well, yeah, except this or.

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Because it puts everybody in an opposition when you get the first round of the project,

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the proposal, everything looks good. We're going to stick with this second go around.

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Which is usually what happens. Yeah. And so I'm just trying to help staff, the commission,

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everybody just make it easy and expedite the approval process for people by being clear.

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So I guess Bob, with the consultants, I would ask that, you know, if we if we go with this,

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we just make sure to pull the language from one of the most restrictive codes out there that's

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of best practice that we can adopt for the city of Port Washington. So we're not

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no future planning commission sitting there, calling balls, you know, going outside of this

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right zone and figuring stuff out. We want to be able to just very clearly say yes or no. And we

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also wanted to make sure that the planner had the authority to stop that before it even came

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for a discussion like, no, this is what the law says. And there's limited exemptions for that.

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All right. Very good. Are we all in agreement on that?

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Robert, I appreciate that. Yeah. And then one last height question I wanted to put towards you.

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In the dimensional building dimensional chapter, you know, it allows it has garages or accessory

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buildings. And it talks about the graduates and set up to be like similar what our draft ADU

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language has is accessory garage or detached garage can be no higher than the principal building.

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So if the highest point of the principal building is going to be 32 feet, you know, the garage will

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be shorter than the principal building rather than just saying 15, 20, 25 feet. That's where we are

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now. That should get it kind of gets around and really take out the special exceptions for garage

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heights. And it's but it's going to be, you know, little it's going to be a little more liberal,

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though, it's going to be lower than your house. The peak of your garage is going to be has to be

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lower than the top of your house. And that's kind of how we define, you know, that when we did the

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ADU ordinance, it's how do you for an ADU has to be just shorter than the principal building

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when when when Kyle was on the commission architect sat down with him and that was

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kind of I thought it was a really good, flexible way to do this without getting into

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variants of special exceptions, but you still have a diminutive difference between principal

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and accessory. So just wondering if you're okay with that. And this is this can be 12 inches,

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right? Yeah. So just as long as there's some offset there, because I mean, there's a lot of

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homes now being built where they're utilizing that space above the garage. That's why we went

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with that lane one foot. Yeah. I think that makes a lot of sense. It has to be shorter than the

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yeah, than the principal. Okay. And then what is it? Is there a minimum? We could. I mean, you could

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just say not higher than 99. There's ways to do it language wise. If you want it like they come

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in with one in shorted, two inches, six inches, two feet. What looks good from an architectural

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standpoint, when you're sitting on the street or you're walking up to somebody's house.

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Knowing that an attached detached garage is set back from the house too. Yeah. I mean, if you think

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about it, so well, I don't know if I can answer that. I mean, it all depends on the style of the

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house. And you know, I would say no less than 12 inches, because it's got to, it's got to at least

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look significant that it's shorter. You know what I mean? So that you know, the house is the house

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and the garage. Yes. Yes. Because you could, you could in the future, you know, somebody could.

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Some people's garages are awful. Right. I would say, I would say 12 inches maximum.

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All right. I mean, I'll go with that. Are you going with that, Tina?

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Yeah. I appreciate that recommendation. Again, it depends on how far back if it's attached,

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set back. If it's set back like 35, 40 feet, I can really see one foot variance.

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No, you're not going to notice that. Yeah. And then if there's any grade,

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one, you can have a garage that's smaller, but higher up on the lot. And so, yeah. So one foot

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sounds awesome. Okay. Bob, is there another slide? No. That is it. Any other questions, Bob? And

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then what is the timeline for us to look at the final zoning code language and approve for a

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recommendation to this? Part of it is the part of that equation is having the consultants get

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everything back. They're tweaking their attorney for the project reviews. I'm going to give myself

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a little bit of lead time or rope and just say September. Okay. All right. Thank you for that.

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With that, then friends, we are at the end of our agendas. There's someone willing to make

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a motion to adjourn. Moved by Ms. Mock. Is there a second? Seconded by Mr. Strom. All in favor

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signify by saying aye. Aye. Opposed? Speeding is adjourned. Go Pirates.