>> I think local government the most in their daily
lives when they're adults. And I think it's a part of
the curriculum that is often missing.
I think current events are really important.
And I didn't want current events to be something that kids hate.
I wanted something that would engage them, and they would go
out on their own and read the paper, and things. I
think you have to, on an emotional level, if you
can connect them a little bit, that's helpful. If you
teach a controversy, where you're giving multiple
perspectives on the issue, that's an appropriate
thing to do.
All right, so today what we're going to do, is we're going to look at a
lesson about Native American mascots. So what I want you guys to do,
is you can kind of see these images. What
words or images come to mind when viewing
the Indian mascot? Any? It's word association.
What do you think of when you see these images?
I'll put them back. Word association.
You have like two minutes.
>> I just think about the stereotypes toward Indians.
>> Anthony, what did you think? >> Team spirit.
>> Dances with Wolves, with Kevin Costner.
(laughter) >> Cowboys.
>> Indians. >> Cowboys and Indians.
>> Baseball. >> Baseball? Why baseball?
>> Because that's a mascot. >> I think what's interesting from
your images and your words is that some of you had negative
images, and some of you had positive images, which
is interesting, because our issue today raises a lot
of emotional issues, some on the positive side and some
on the negative side. So what we're going to look at
today, and our question is, should Wisconsin ban the use
of Indian mascots and logos in their public schools?
I had divided them from the groups of four into partners. And
they have to talk about what they thought two good arguments
were that they already heard. And then, my goal on this
lesson was for them to find one additional new argument
to support that side. And I'm going to put you
in groups of four, okay. So that's the group
you're going to be working on this issue with.
From the four, you're going to break into pairs.
Two are going to support and two are going to oppose
the issue of mascots. Once they learn about an issue,
they become more engaged. And what I found is that a
variety of different issues engage different kids,
so you have to provide a variety of issues, because some
will engage some students and some will engage others.
To start with, though, I thought I'd provide to you
a variety of information. So I'm going to show you,
actually, two video clips. And you're going to find
arguments, both to support the yes and the no argument.
So I think what I'd do is just jot down a few words
or images about some of the arguments you heard,
while you remember them. And you can expand on
them before I show you the other videotape.
>> And so, when the Chief stepped foot on the court one
last time, it seemed as if the fans knew that they were
witnessing something historic, the end of a controversial era.
The Chief's last dance.
>> Students can bring the awareness to me. They might have an issue
or concern that they want to talk about.
I look in the paper. I watch the news.
I like to think I'm an engaged citizen.
So, I can bring some awareness to them about
what's going on in the world. And if I'm engaged,
their parents might be engaged. It's kind of an interesting
marriage between what the kids are interested in and
what's going on in the world. Find as many arguments
as you can, okay? Write them in your notes
and then you and your partner will discuss what you
think are the top four.
>> So, we're supposed to like, skim these and?
>> Yeah. >> Those who want the name changed
would like it changed to what? The Pussy Cats or the
Fighting Librarians? You don't name your own team
after someone or something you don't respect.
>> They had me for like the first paragraph.
After that, it was ridiculous. It's like you could name
it a bunch of other stuff.
>> It may be a violation of civil rights, it says.
>> I think when a teacher comes to
the table, you always have biases.
By providing multiple perspectives in the classroom
and when leading the discussion, not saying,
"Really, that's your position?" You know, I want to make it
feel like they can have the perspective they want,
just support it with evidence, and teach good arguing skills,
but not tell them how they have to think or believe.
I heard you over there say, "I already have
opinions, I don't need to write stuff down." See if there are
other arguments that help support your position on this.
>> They want to keep it around, because
it means something to the students, and
just like, it makes the school a better place.
If they got rid of the mascot, I think the school would just get worse.
>> On the issue, I'm just hoping that they
can have a broader understanding of the
controversy, why it's a controversy, and perhaps
why people are pretty emotional about it.
>> All they're saying is that they want to honor the
Native Americans, and not like, discriminate them.
They're not trying to take them down.
>> I think, to be an engaged and active citizen is a really
important goal of a government and a social studies curriculum.
That was why I hadn't jumped to the activism part.
Because I knew that they weren't ready to go there yet.
I wanted them to keep exploring the two sides of the issue.
And I thought it was interesting that at the end they were
actually addressing one another. That's one of the big
goals of my discussion. It's not me that they have to
direct all their comments to. They should be
talking to one another, and addressing themselves.
>> There's other mascots that are for like Irish
people, and stuff like that. It's not like
they're getting offended. But I think they take
it differently, because of the past history.
>> I'm looking at all of these in Wisconsin. It is
such a big part of our culture, because of all the
Indian tribes that were here. It's been part of our history.
It's an important thing to be representing.
>> He's in the school district right next door. He's
arguing that they shouldn't have their Native American mascot.
>> Okay, 81%. >> 81% of Americans
said that they shouldn't use mascots
for high school and college. And 83% said no for pro teams.
>> It kind of seems like most of them are saying no
for anything at all. Native Americans are like, they
don't want it, because the way they're using it now is derogatory.
>> So, what from the video, what from this do
you think are the most compelling arguments?
You don't have to agree with them, but just the
arguments that you think are the most compelling.
Think about once you have four really good arguments,
you're going to team up with them and
share what arguments you came up with.
>> If they want them banned, they should be
able to like, have the opinion of banning
them, because like, I'm not Native American.
Sam and I both talked about this.
>> Yeah. >> We're not Native Americans.
>> People use them, like an Indian as their mascot,
because they thought that it showed their opposition
that they were fierce, and they were ready to win.
>> Our first argument was that having Indians as a
mascot is not trying to demoralize Native Americans.
It's more of an honor for the Native Americans.
>> For ours, we said it was disrespectful to the Indian beliefs.
Mostly because it's like being like they're wanting to fight.
>> We don't have, like, Mexicans as
mascots, or black people as your mascots.
We're people, and we're all the same, so I don't think
we should use people as our mascots.
>> The lesson was done in two days.
So I want you to switch positions. Find and
talk about what you think the two best ones
are that you've already heard. Try to come up with a new one.
Then I want you to come back together as a group of four,
share your arguments that you thought were the best. And
then I have a ten-minute video to show you, to
further enhance your understanding of the issue.
Yeah, I think video, pictures, any sort of
technology is important. Kids are used to that.
They see all these images all day.
They do those sorts of things. So, to be able to bring
that into the classroom, that's part of the engagement,
to have a variety of ways for them to take in information.
>> People who don't know as much may not be as careful how to use it.
>> Okay, so what if you had a friend who was
Native American and he or she found it offensive?
>> I'm confused. The yes side, I think,
can say that they should be banned,
just 'cause they're racist. But then, the only thing I agree
with on the other side, is that they show, like, bravery
and power, and stuff, so it's kind of respectful.
>> But you know, in the same way you're showing the bravery
and power, you're kind of showing silliness.
>> But like for the other side, they show respect.
So, I'm really confused.
>> It's nice that they're choosing
Indians to portray what's respectful.
What's disrespectful is how they portray them, you know?
>> Most people that are racist aren't people that you think would be.
>> Yeah. >> I thought that was,
that they used the resources well.
>> We looked at this map and saw that most of the
schools that have Indians as mascots are in southern
and eastern Wisconsin, whereas all the tribes and that
kind of thing, the reservations, are in northern.
So, we weren't sure what that meant at first. But we
came to the conclusion that the people that don't know
as much may not be as careful to how they use it,
how that may affect people.
>> I think it'd be more respectful. Like, we're using it.
>> Showing respect. >> Like in here,
they're saying how like, they got the information wrong. And
they're saying that this one mascot was this chief, but
in reality, he wasn't actually.
>> It does impact your children.
That's what this American Psychological Association found.
I'm saying that because they're using Indians as
mascots, the only reason people are getting upset
is because of the past history that America has had with them.
>> I have a video. It's about ten minutes long.
It's going to talk about this issue. And
what this issue does, is it brings it now,
down to Wisconsin's level, at our state level.
So, you're going to meet some kids from Prescott, Wisconsin.
They do not have an Indian mascot, but a number of schools
in their conference do. They are looking more broadly.
Now, we're kind of narrowing the issue a little bit,
and they can see kids their age and what they felt about the issue.
>> Being non-Indian people, there's a lot
of people who would say, "Why do you care?"
Why should you care about an issue like this?
>> We had to write an essay on our opinion, about do you
think Native American mascots are offensive.
>> It hurts the self-esteem of Native Americans.
>> It hits close to home, because we have a bunch
of schools in our area that do have Indian mascots.
I know Native Americans, hearing them say, "That's
very offensive to me," made way more of an impact.
>> How many of you, raise your hand, if you
have an opinion on this issue right now? Okay.
How many of you are still forming your opinion right now?
Okay, all right. This is kind of interesting.
So, I'm going to open it up now, and let's address our question.
And our question is, should Wisconsin ban the use
of American Indian mascot logos in their public schools?
In the discussion that we had today, it started a little slow.
And so, just allowing students, kind of that space, to kind of think about it.
>> I think because it'll affect a lot
of people, I think it should be voted
on by the people, instead of the elected, the committee.
>> What do you mean? >> It should be on the ballot.
>> Oh, so you think this should be a referendum question
for everyone to weigh in on. >> Yeah.
>> I think you need to look at how the mascot
is being depicted, like, Cleveland's baseball mascot,
I mean, that's pretty bad. But otherwise, there are some
that it's just an arrow with a feather.
>> But it does show honor, that they chose Native Americans,
you know, to be their mascot. But what the dishonor
is, is how they portray them, like with the dances
and the tomahawk chop, and stuff like that.
Like, with the dances and the war cries, too.
Native Americans, when they do those things, it
means something. And for them, it's just like,
just doing it. They don't know what they're doing.
>> If people, if they're not
okay with all the dancing, and stuff, then they
probably shouldn't be using their mascots.
Because the purpose that we have them for is to
get everybody going. So, I don't know if it's
necessarily that we're being disrespectful to their culture, or if we're
just doing what the whole purpose, in our minds, of what a mascot is.
>> Okay, so what I'm hearing
you say, Sarah, is that you're having trouble,
where do you draw the line. >> Yeah.
>> It's hard to draw that line a little bit.
Interesting. >> I think we should ask, like
in that article, the actual Native Americans,
and see what they think. And if they don't mind it,
it shouldn't be changed because it's not offending many people at all.
>> There's always going to be people that don't agree,
so you might as well just kind of play it safe.
>> But if we do what Morgan says, then we're
going to have to try and please everyone.
And like, you can't do that, because someone is always going
to be offended by something, or not like something else.
>> All right, thank you guys. You can leave
the desks how they are. I'll fix them.
Over all, I was pleased with how they engaged with the
materials, how they talked to one another, and I thought
they did pretty well.
>> For more information, visit
us on the Web at: ecb.org/engage