00:00:01:16	00:00:03:05	>> We all think we know
00:00:03:05	00:00:04:22	what government is.
00:00:04:22	00:00:05:23	>> How it works
00:00:05:23	00:00:07:05	and what it does.
00:00:07:05	00:00:09:00	>> But what is it really?
00:00:09:00	00:00:10:07	What do we mean
00:00:10:07	00:00:11:13	by "government"?
00:00:11:13	00:00:13:07	>> Is it this?
00:00:13:07	00:00:14:20	>> Or this?
00:00:14:20	00:00:15:17	>> Are these people
00:00:15:17	00:00:16:25	the government?
00:00:16:25	00:00:18:06	>> Are you?
00:00:18:06	00:00:19:02	>> These are just some
00:00:19:02	00:00:20:04	of the questions we'll try
00:00:20:04	00:00:21:12	to answer for you today.
00:00:21:12	00:00:23:21	>> On Engage.
00:00:31:02	00:00:32:12	>> Hi, I'm Zach.
00:00:32:12	00:00:33:21	>> And my name's Paloma.
00:00:33:21	00:00:34:20	People go fishing,
00:00:34:20	00:00:35:23	not only for what they catch,
00:00:35:23	00:00:37:01	but also just to relax.
00:00:37:01	00:00:38:02	>> Yeah, and everybody likes
00:00:38:02	00:00:39:08	a good fish story.
00:00:39:08	00:00:40:10	But what happens when you're not
00:00:40:10	00:00:41:15	allowed to fish, even if it's
00:00:41:15	00:00:43:18	just to feed your own family?
00:00:43:18	00:00:44:17	>> Many years ago,
00:00:44:17	00:00:45:21	the US government signed
00:00:45:21	00:00:46:24	treaties with the Wisconsin
00:00:46:24	00:00:48:09	Ojibwe tribes, which guaranteed
00:00:48:09	00:00:49:20	their rights to hunt, fish
00:00:49:20	00:00:50:23	and gather on the lands
00:00:50:23	00:00:52:04	that they sold.
00:00:52:04	00:00:53:05	>> As time went by, the state
00:00:53:05	00:00:54:23	government ignored these rights,
00:00:54:23	00:00:55:28	and tribal members were fined or
00:00:55:28	00:00:57:09	arrested for simply doing what
00:00:57:09	00:00:59:06	these treaties had guaranteed.
00:00:59:06	00:01:00:04	>> Then, two brothers
00:01:00:04	00:01:01:02	did some research
00:01:01:02	00:01:02:14	and decided enough was enough.
00:01:02:14	00:01:03:21	They went fishing and ended up
00:01:03:21	00:01:06:04	with a very big catch.
00:01:09:15	00:01:11:19	>> The lifestyle at the time
00:01:11:19	00:01:13:10	was a hunter gatherer lifestyle.
00:01:13:10	00:01:15:07	And the hunter gatherer
00:01:15:07	00:01:17:14	lifestyle could not be sustained
00:01:17:14	00:01:19:07	within just the reservation
00:01:19:07	00:01:21:04	boundaries themselves.
00:01:21:04	00:01:22:11	The Chippewas knew this.
00:01:22:11	00:01:24:01	And as a part of the negotiation
00:01:24:01	00:01:26:16	of the treaty, they reserved
00:01:26:16	00:01:28:18	the right to continue hunting,
00:01:28:18	00:01:30:00	fishing and gathering
00:01:30:00	00:01:31:10	in the broader territory,
00:01:31:10	00:01:33:11	or in the ceded territory.
00:01:33:11	00:01:35:29	They were rights that existed in
00:01:35:29	00:01:38:23	their ownership of that property
00:01:38:23	00:01:39:27	before they sold it
00:01:39:27	00:01:41:10	to the United States.
00:01:41:10	00:01:42:17	And when they sold it,
00:01:42:17	00:01:43:27	or ceded those lands
00:01:43:27	00:01:45:11	to the United States,
00:01:45:11	00:01:47:12	they reserved to themselves that
00:01:47:12	00:01:49:27	piece of the property right,
00:01:49:27	00:01:51:20	to continue to hunt, fish
00:01:51:20	00:01:53:25	and gather on those lands.
00:01:53:25	00:01:55:25	>> That, not only was necessary
00:01:55:25	00:01:57:18	for day to day survival
00:01:57:18	00:01:59:07	when the treaties were signed,
00:01:59:07	00:02:00:28	but over time,
00:02:00:28	00:02:02:08	as Indian reservations
00:02:02:08	00:02:03:23	generally are enforced
00:02:03:23	00:02:05:05	in parts of the state, it was
00:02:05:05	00:02:06:25	needed in order to continue
00:02:06:25	00:02:09:05	to have people survive.
00:02:09:05	00:02:11:12	And I mean literally survive.
00:02:11:12	00:02:13:07	>> For many of the people, it
00:02:13:07	00:02:15:00	isn't about hunting or fishing
00:02:15:00	00:02:17:21	for sport, it's actually hunting
00:02:17:21	00:02:20:08	and fishing for subsistence.
00:02:20:08	00:02:21:19	>> We don't hunt
00:02:21:19	00:02:23:06	for the purpose of just hunting.
00:02:23:06	00:02:25:21	We hunt because we were taught
00:02:25:21	00:02:28:04	to go out and get food
00:02:28:04	00:02:29:08	and bring it home
00:02:29:08	00:02:34:09	and put it on the table.
00:02:34:09	00:02:35:29	>> So, the states are Wisconsin,
00:02:35:29	00:02:38:01	Michigan and Minnesota.
00:02:38:01	00:02:39:03	That's related
00:02:39:03	00:02:40:20	to conservation departments
00:02:40:20	00:02:43:00	that we know as the DNR today.
00:02:43:00	00:02:44:10	They more or less assumed
00:02:44:10	00:02:46:23	that the states had primary
00:02:46:23	00:02:48:26	jurisdiction there.
00:02:48:26	00:02:50:03	>> And just decided
00:02:50:03	00:02:52:12	that they were going to go ahead
00:02:52:12	00:02:54:03	and illegally enforce state laws
00:02:54:03	00:02:56:25	against tribal members.
00:02:56:25	00:02:58:03	That did last for probably
00:02:58:03	00:03:00:17	50 to 75 years.
00:03:00:17	00:03:01:25	That didn't stop individual
00:03:01:25	00:03:02:27	Indian people
00:03:02:27	00:03:05:18	from exercising their rights.
00:03:05:18	00:03:07:15	They just developed ways and
00:03:07:15	00:03:10:00	means by which to avoid capture,
00:03:10:00	00:03:11:27	I guess, or avoid citation
00:03:11:27	00:03:13:16	by the state.
00:03:13:16	00:03:14:25	>> We didn't have lawyers.
00:03:14:25	00:03:15:27	We didn't have money
00:03:15:27	00:03:16:29	for lawyers.
00:03:16:29	00:03:18:14	We didn't have the resources
00:03:18:14	00:03:20:20	to fight things.
00:03:20:20	00:03:21:21	>> My grandma used to get mad
00:03:21:21	00:03:22:27	at them, because one time
00:03:22:27	00:03:24:04	they came into her house and
00:03:24:04	00:03:25:26	they opened up her refrigerator
00:03:25:26	00:03:27:13	and they took all the deer meat
00:03:27:13	00:03:29:07	out of her refrigerator.
00:03:29:07	00:03:31:04	They arrested my dad.
00:03:31:04	00:03:32:10	>> Many tribal members were
00:03:32:10	00:03:35:25	jailed, arrested repeatedly.
00:03:35:25	00:03:37:20	Tribal members were shot.
00:03:37:20	00:03:39:17	Joe White, a tribal member,
00:03:39:17	00:03:41:23	was killed by a game warden.
00:03:41:23	00:03:43:05	The game warden was acquitted
00:03:43:05	00:03:45:26	in Rice Lake in court there.
00:03:45:26	00:03:47:10	But we always maintained
00:03:47:10	00:03:48:23	and knew that we had reserved
00:03:48:23	00:03:49:27	treaty rights.
00:03:49:27	00:03:51:00	The elders have always
00:03:51:00	00:03:51:29	passed that on.
00:03:51:29	00:03:53:02	My grandma always told me that,
00:03:53:02	00:03:55:15	as well.
00:03:55:15	00:03:56:23	>> The Tribble brothers,
00:03:56:23	00:03:58:07	I think, are a good example of
00:03:58:07	00:04:00:16	those folks in the '60s and '70s
00:04:00:16	00:04:02:28	who decided that, you know,
00:04:02:28	00:04:05:03	now is the time
00:04:05:03	00:04:07:28	to present a legal challenge.
00:04:07:28	00:04:11:27	>> We were young guys then.
00:04:11:27	00:04:13:19	We had a tribal member named
00:04:13:19	00:04:15:12	John Anderson, who was
00:04:15:12	00:04:16:25	pushing for higher education
00:04:16:25	00:04:18:11	for Native Americans.
00:04:18:11	00:04:20:09	He recruited us to go to school.
00:04:20:09	00:04:21:14	I picked a college
00:04:21:14	00:04:23:13	in Duluth, Minnesota.
00:04:23:13	00:04:24:20	He introduced
00:04:24:20	00:04:27:11	an Indian Law course.
00:04:27:11	00:04:29:03	And that Indian Law course, the
00:04:29:03	00:04:32:02	instructor was Larry Levinthal,
00:04:32:02	00:04:34:01	an attorney out of Minneapolis.
00:04:34:01	00:04:35:00	>> He looked around
00:04:35:00	00:04:36:05	the audience,
00:04:36:05	00:04:37:16	as Larry tells the story, and
00:04:37:16	00:04:38:24	he said, "How many of you here
00:04:38:24	00:04:41:11	are Wisconsin Ojibwe?"
00:04:41:11	00:04:42:26	And a few raised their hands.
00:04:42:26	00:04:45:14	He said, "Gee, it's a shame..."
00:04:45:14	00:04:47:22	You know, that the Wisconsin
00:04:47:22	00:04:50:17	Chippewa tribes haven't taken
00:04:50:17	00:04:53:24	a stand on this reserved rights
00:04:53:24	00:04:56:27	Article in the Treaty of 1937.
00:04:56:27	00:04:59:11	>> That said they retained
00:04:59:11	00:05:00:20	the right to hunt, fish
00:05:00:20	00:05:04:23	and gather on ceded territories.
00:05:04:23	00:05:06:04	>> We drove back and forth.
00:05:06:04	00:05:07:14	We would talk about this.
00:05:07:14	00:05:09:02	We'd say, how come we have to
00:05:09:02	00:05:10:10	just hunt on reservations?
00:05:10:10	00:05:12:12	Why is it that we can't go off?
00:05:12:12	00:05:13:18	And here, the treaty rights
00:05:13:18	00:05:15:01	give us the right to go off.
00:05:15:01	00:05:16:02	One day after class,
00:05:16:02	00:05:17:06	we caught him in the hallway,
00:05:17:06	00:05:18:18	Larry Levinthal.
00:05:18:18	00:05:20:05	We said, "Hey, Larry, is this
00:05:20:05	00:05:21:28	what we think this means?
00:05:21:28	00:05:23:02	We can go off the reservation
00:05:23:02	00:05:24:18	to hunt, fish and trap?"
00:05:24:18	00:05:25:25	And he said, "Yeah."
00:05:25:25	00:05:27:15	"But we can't."
00:05:27:15	00:05:29:03	"What are we going to do?"
00:05:29:03	00:05:30:09	He said, "Well, you have to have
00:05:30:09	00:05:31:14	a test case."
00:05:31:14	00:05:33:04	"Oh, yeah?
00:05:33:04	00:05:34:18	What's a test case?
00:05:34:18	00:05:36:05	What do we have to do?"
00:05:36:05	00:05:37:10	He said, "Well, you have to
00:05:37:10	00:05:39:06	go out and get arrested."
00:05:39:06	00:05:40:07	So then, we said, "Well,
00:05:40:07	00:05:41:09	we're going to do the test case.
00:05:41:09	00:05:42:14	We're going to do it."
00:05:42:14	00:05:43:24	Mike and I planned to go out.
00:05:43:24	00:05:45:24	It was in the spring of 1974.
00:05:45:24	00:05:47:00	We were going to go out and,
00:05:47:00	00:05:49:13	you know, get arrested.
00:05:49:13	00:05:50:19	>> We got arrested
00:05:50:19	00:05:52:06	on Chief Lake.
00:05:52:06	00:05:53:11	And on Chief Lake, there's an
00:05:53:11	00:05:54:21	imaginary line that goes
00:05:54:21	00:05:55:22	down the middle of the lake.
00:05:55:22	00:05:57:11	One side is the reservation.
00:05:57:11	00:05:59:23	The other side is off the res.
00:05:59:23	00:06:01:13	>> Every day, when we fished,
00:06:01:13	00:06:03:02	an airplane flew over.
00:06:03:02	00:06:04:12	And we knew that was the state
00:06:04:12	00:06:05:19	game wardens flying over to
00:06:05:19	00:06:06:27	make sure all the fish shacks
00:06:06:27	00:06:08:00	were inside the boundaries of
00:06:08:00	00:06:10:19	the reservation on Chief Lake.
00:06:10:19	00:06:11:25	So I told Mike, I said, "Well,
00:06:11:25	00:06:13:26	we'll wait till they fly over
00:06:13:26	00:06:15:20	and we'll move a fish shack
00:06:15:20	00:06:18:22	over to off the reservation."
00:06:18:22	00:06:20:21	So, the next morning, after we
00:06:20:21	00:06:22:05	moved the fish shack over there,
00:06:22:05	00:06:23:09	we got up real early
00:06:23:09	00:06:25:05	and got out there at dawn.
00:06:25:05	00:06:26:19	Before we could do anything,
00:06:26:19	00:06:29:10	here comes the game wardens
00:06:29:10	00:06:31:23	across the ice.
00:06:31:23	00:06:32:22	I had a copy of the treaty
00:06:32:22	00:06:34:03	rights in my back pocket.
00:06:34:03	00:06:35:08	I took it out and I showed it
00:06:35:08	00:06:36:14	to him.
00:06:36:14	00:06:37:22	I said, "We're not illegal here.
00:06:37:22	00:06:38:23	We're exercising
00:06:38:23	00:06:40:11	our treaty rights."
00:06:40:11	00:06:41:23	Well, that didn't matter.
00:06:41:23	00:06:44:00	They still gave us a citation.
00:06:44:00	00:06:45:04	So, we went to court,
00:06:45:04	00:06:46:07	got found guilty.
00:06:46:07	00:06:47:26	We were fined.
00:06:47:26	00:06:49:08	The fine was stayed,
00:06:49:08	00:06:51:23	pending appeal.
00:06:54:17	00:06:56:11	>> They brought their case up
00:06:56:11	00:06:57:29	through all the different levels
00:06:57:29	00:06:59:04	of the court, and all the other
00:06:59:04	00:07:00:26	Wisconsin Chippewa Bands
00:07:00:26	00:07:03:00	joined in.
00:07:03:00	00:07:04:20	>> The District Court originally
00:07:04:20	00:07:06:15	said the rights do not exist.
00:07:06:15	00:07:08:09	The Appeals Court came back
00:07:08:09	00:07:10:03	in January, 1983, and said that
00:07:10:03	00:07:12:05	the District Court was wrong.
00:07:12:05	00:07:13:08	They do exist.
00:07:13:08	00:07:14:15	We affirm the existence
00:07:14:15	00:07:15:21	of the rights.
00:07:15:21	00:07:17:08	>> The state of Wisconsin sought
00:07:17:08	00:07:20:05	review in the US Supreme Court.
00:07:20:05	00:07:21:03	The Supreme Court
00:07:21:03	00:07:22:09	refused to hear it.
00:07:22:09	00:07:23:16	When they declined,
00:07:23:16	00:07:25:00	the appellant decision stays
00:07:25:00	00:07:26:07	in effect.
00:07:26:07	00:07:27:13	And the one here
00:07:27:13	00:07:28:23	is the 7th Circuit saying
00:07:28:23	00:07:31:01	this right still exists.
00:07:31:01	00:07:32:02	>> When I received
00:07:32:02	00:07:33:11	the phone call, I received
00:07:33:11	00:07:34:16	the first phone call from
00:07:34:16	00:07:35:27	the Attorney General's office.
00:07:35:27	00:07:37:09	It was a shock.
00:07:37:09	00:07:38:17	>> None of the other Wisconsin
00:07:38:17	00:07:39:19	tribes were paying attention
00:07:39:19	00:07:40:17	to it.
00:07:40:17	00:07:41:20	You know, maybe something good
00:07:41:20	00:07:43:04	will come of it, maybe not.
00:07:43:04	00:07:44:18	>> So, it was a surprise
00:07:44:18	00:07:45:27	to the agency.
00:07:45:27	00:07:47:01	It was going to have
00:07:47:01	00:07:48:08	a tremendous impact
00:07:48:08	00:07:49:11	on operations, and
00:07:49:11	00:07:52:06	potentially natural resources.
00:07:54:19	00:07:55:22	>> So it was like, okay,
00:07:55:22	00:07:57:26	now that we've won the case,
00:07:57:26	00:07:59:25	that these rights are reaffirmed
00:07:59:25	00:08:01:23	and they do exist,
00:08:01:23	00:08:03:20	what do we do next?
00:08:03:20	00:08:06:11	>> I recall the tribal leaders
00:08:06:11	00:08:09:21	scrambling to study the treaty,
00:08:09:21	00:08:13:16	and to sit with the attorneys,
00:08:13:16	00:08:15:07	and understand what the
00:08:15:07	00:08:17:11	full impact of this might be.
00:08:17:11	00:08:19:00	>> And so, the Appeals Court
00:08:19:00	00:08:20:16	sent it back down to the
00:08:20:16	00:08:21:27	District Court and said, figure
00:08:21:27	00:08:23:16	out the scope of the right,
00:08:23:16	00:08:24:24	and figure out who regulates
00:08:24:24	00:08:26:01	the right.
00:08:26:01	00:08:27:21	>> We didn't know, at that time,
00:08:27:21	00:08:29:10	if Judge Doyle would be
00:08:29:10	00:08:30:28	favorable to us, or if this
00:08:30:28	00:08:32:25	would be a difficult process.
00:08:32:25	00:08:34:04	Clearly, it involved
00:08:34:04	00:08:36:17	a step-by-step negotiation.
00:08:36:17	00:08:37:26	>> One of the challenges that
00:08:37:26	00:08:39:08	tribal leadership identified
00:08:39:08	00:08:40:16	to me was that, you know,
00:08:40:16	00:08:41:27	how are we going to work with
00:08:41:27	00:08:43:01	the state when we don't have
00:08:43:01	00:08:44:21	any relationship with them.
00:08:44:21	00:08:46:04	>> The Secretary at the time
00:08:46:04	00:08:47:12	asked me to take the lead
00:08:47:12	00:08:49:24	in the tribal negotiations.
00:08:49:24	00:08:51:28	>> I recall that in those times,
00:08:51:28	00:08:53:06	our tribal leaders
00:08:53:06	00:08:55:00	were angry with the DNR.
00:08:55:00	00:08:56:11	And the DNR
00:08:56:11	00:08:58:13	was clearly our enemy.
00:08:58:13	00:08:59:21	>> There were a lot of details
00:08:59:21	00:09:00:23	that needed to be fleshed out.
00:09:00:23	00:09:02:06	What were the rights?
00:09:02:06	00:09:03:13	How would they be exercised
00:09:03:13	00:09:05:04	and regulated?
00:09:05:04	00:09:06:18	In the meantime,
00:09:06:18	00:09:07:23	the tribes had the right
00:09:07:23	00:09:10:01	to implement those rights.
00:09:11:19	00:09:13:12	>> I come from --, which is
00:09:13:12	00:09:14:23	known in our language
00:09:14:23	00:09:17:04	as Lac du Flambeau.
00:09:17:04	00:09:18:11	They mean the same.
00:09:18:11	00:09:20:12	They mean the Lake of Torches.
00:09:20:12	00:09:21:23	I believe, back in the
00:09:21:23	00:09:23:12	16th century, when the French
00:09:23:12	00:09:25:24	Fur Traders came and they seen
00:09:25:24	00:09:28:26	my people, the Ojibwe people,
00:09:28:26	00:09:30:17	out there spearing
00:09:30:17	00:09:32:26	by torch light.
00:09:32:26	00:09:34:28	When treaty rights came about,
00:09:34:28	00:09:36:05	we were very aggressive
00:09:36:05	00:09:38:17	fishermen.
00:09:38:17	00:09:40:04	And Lac du Flambeau got a lot
00:09:40:04	00:09:42:09	of fish during that time.
00:09:42:09	00:09:43:16	And it really ticked a lot
00:09:43:16	00:09:45:07	of people off.
00:09:45:07	00:09:46:14	(whistles blaring)
00:09:46:14	00:09:48:11	(indistinct yelling)
00:09:48:11	00:09:49:24	>> What happened on the landings
00:09:49:24	00:09:51:09	is that individuals decided
00:09:51:09	00:09:52:21	that this could not
00:09:52:21	00:09:54:11	possibly be correct.
00:09:54:11	00:09:56:21	Indians needed to be stopped
00:09:56:21	00:09:58:14	from harvesting fish,
00:09:58:14	00:09:59:26	particularly walleye,
00:09:59:26	00:10:02:19	particularly with spears.
00:10:02:19	00:10:04:08	>> As American citizens, we
00:10:04:08	00:10:06:05	were brought up with the idea
00:10:06:05	00:10:07:10	that everyone is equal
00:10:07:10	00:10:09:02	under the law.
00:10:09:02	00:10:11:20	And we had the job of educating
00:10:11:20	00:10:13:25	people about the fact that there
00:10:13:25	00:10:15:19	are other sovereign nations that
00:10:15:19	00:10:17:08	live amongst us, who in fact,
00:10:17:08	00:10:19:18	own this whole country we have,
00:10:19:18	00:10:21:17	and retain that sovereignty.
00:10:21:17	00:10:23:06	So there was a separate set
00:10:23:06	00:10:24:28	of laws.
00:10:24:28	00:10:26:06	And that was protected
00:10:26:06	00:10:27:12	by the federal law
00:10:27:12	00:10:30:07	and the US Constitution.
00:10:30:07	00:10:32:19	>> The people who were involved
00:10:32:19	00:10:34:08	representing the state
00:10:34:08	00:10:35:15	and representing the tribes
00:10:35:15	00:10:37:26	sort of decided to put the
00:10:37:26	00:10:39:23	images that were being displayed
00:10:39:23	00:10:41:28	every spring out of their mind
00:10:41:28	00:10:43:25	and just follow through on
00:10:43:25	00:10:46:07	the task they had before them,
00:10:46:07	00:10:47:25	which is, how do we decide,
00:10:47:25	00:10:49:15	you know, what these harvests
00:10:49:15	00:10:50:27	are going to be.
00:10:50:27	00:10:53:03	They were able to overcome,
00:10:53:03	00:10:54:22	because they were both in this
00:10:54:22	00:10:56:23	sort of baptism of fire, in the
00:10:56:23	00:10:59:10	creation of this relationship
00:10:59:10	00:11:02:18	that they didn't have before.
00:11:02:18	00:11:04:06	>> In 1990, a federal judge
00:11:04:06	00:11:05:22	ruled that the tribes and
00:11:05:22	00:11:07:11	non-Indians would equally share
00:11:07:11	00:11:09:11	the harvest of resources,
00:11:09:11	00:11:10:25	which eased some of the tensions
00:11:10:25	00:11:13:16	in the north woods.
00:11:13:16	00:11:15:03	The next year, a study called
00:11:15:03	00:11:16:29	Casting Light Upon the Waters
00:11:16:29	00:11:18:17	revealed that Ojibwe
00:11:18:17	00:11:19:28	spear fishing did not harm
00:11:19:28	00:11:22:03	the resource, and that fish
00:11:22:03	00:11:24:24	populations remained healthy.
00:11:24:24	00:11:26:10	To monitor and protect
00:11:26:10	00:11:27:28	the health of fish, and other
00:11:27:28	00:11:30:00	resources, the Ojibwe tribes
00:11:30:00	00:11:31:19	banded together to form
00:11:31:19	00:11:33:17	the Great Lakes Indian Fish
00:11:33:17	00:11:35:26	and Wildlife Commission.
00:11:35:26	00:11:37:22	>> It actually operates
00:11:37:22	00:11:38:27	as the tribes' sort of DNR.
00:11:38:27	00:11:42:15	That's how it came to be.
00:11:42:15	00:11:44:05	We started out with just your
00:11:44:05	00:11:45:19	fish biologists, your wildlife
00:11:45:19	00:11:48:09	biologists and enforcement.
00:11:48:09	00:11:50:01	We had wardens here and there.
00:11:50:01	00:11:52:05	Bare bones budget.
00:11:52:05	00:11:53:28	But now, after all these years,
00:11:53:28	00:11:56:00	we have sound science.
00:11:56:00	00:11:58:14	We count and measure,
00:11:58:14	00:12:00:02	and sex and age,
00:12:00:02	00:12:02:08	all the fish that we catch.
00:12:02:08	00:12:03:27	We have absolute numbers
00:12:03:27	00:12:05:03	and the best science
00:12:05:03	00:12:07:02	of any resource you can have.
00:12:07:02	00:12:08:27	>> The disturbances
00:12:08:27	00:12:10:10	of northern Wisconsin
00:12:10:10	00:12:13:06	are long gone and forgotten.
00:12:13:06	00:12:14:14	That's good for the state
00:12:14:14	00:12:16:05	of Wisconsin.
00:12:16:05	00:12:17:20	>> So, things today with the DNR
00:12:17:20	00:12:18:29	are a lot different
00:12:18:29	00:12:21:06	than they were back then.
00:12:21:06	00:12:22:15	The bottom line is,
00:12:22:15	00:12:24:18	we're here for the resource.
00:12:24:18	00:12:26:28	And once we figured that out,
00:12:26:28	00:12:29:18	and partnered up, instead of
00:12:29:18	00:12:31:11	spending money on lawyers,
00:12:31:11	00:12:32:13	you're putting it
00:12:32:13	00:12:34:23	into the resource.
00:12:41:07	00:12:42:09	>> For more information,
00:12:42:09	00:12:43:20	visit us on the Web at:
00:12:43:20	00:12:47:13	ecb.org/engage
00:12:54:23	00:12:56:04	>> We all think we know
00:12:56:04	00:12:57:15	what government is.
00:12:57:15	00:12:58:18	>> How it works
00:12:58:18	00:12:59:27	and what it does.
00:12:59:27	00:13:01:11	>> But what is it really?
00:13:01:11	00:13:02:15	What do we mean
00:13:02:15	00:13:04:03	by "government"?
00:13:04:03	00:13:05:21	>> Is it this?
00:13:05:21	00:13:07:14	>> Or this?
00:13:07:14	00:13:08:11	>> Are these people
00:13:08:11	00:13:09:19	the government?
00:13:09:19	00:13:11:01	>> Are you?
00:13:11:01	00:13:12:00	>> These are just some
00:13:12:00	00:13:13:00	of the questions we'll try
00:13:13:00	00:13:14:05	to answer for you today.
00:13:14:05	00:13:16:05	>> On Engage.
00:13:21:18	00:13:22:23	>> Hi, I'm Paloma.
00:13:22:23	00:13:24:04	>> And my name's Zach.
00:13:24:04	00:13:25:19	Places for a judge, a witness,
00:13:25:19	00:13:27:03	a jury.
00:13:27:03	00:13:28:03	Even if you've never been
00:13:28:03	00:13:29:12	to a courtroom like this before,
00:13:29:12	00:13:30:13	it's a pretty familiar sight
00:13:30:13	00:13:31:25	from movies and TV.
00:13:31:25	00:13:32:26	>> Governments need legal
00:13:32:26	00:13:33:25	systems for interpreting
00:13:33:25	00:13:35:00	and enforcing the law.
00:13:35:00	00:13:36:00	In Wisconsin, there are
00:13:36:00	00:13:37:06	hundreds of municipal courts
00:13:37:06	00:13:38:15	and hundreds of circuit courts
00:13:38:15	00:13:40:06	for our 72 counties.
00:13:40:06	00:13:41:09	>> But what about the 11
00:13:41:09	00:13:42:24	Indian tribes within our state?
00:13:42:24	00:13:43:25	As sovereign nations
00:13:43:25	00:13:44:24	within our borders, which
00:13:44:24	00:13:46:07	legal systems apply to them?
00:13:46:07	00:13:47:14	>> Well, it turns out,
00:13:47:14	00:13:50:17	they have their own.
00:13:50:17	00:13:51:28	>> All rise.
00:13:51:28	00:13:53:19	>> In recent years, Wisconsin's
00:13:53:19	00:13:55:02	Indian tribes have expanded
00:13:55:02	00:13:57:19	their tribal court systems.
00:13:59:23	00:14:01:08	In northern Wisconsin, federal
00:14:01:08	00:14:02:15	courts ruled that Wisconsin's
00:14:02:15	00:14:04:17	Ojibwe tribes retained the right
00:14:04:17	00:14:06:11	to hunt, fish and gather
00:14:06:11	00:14:09:01	on their former lands.
00:14:09:01	00:14:10:09	The tribes were then faced with
00:14:10:09	00:14:11:24	the task of regulating their
00:14:11:24	00:14:15:05	harvest of natural resources.
00:14:15:05	00:14:17:03	>> The federal court ruled
00:14:17:03	00:14:18:29	that besides having the right
00:14:18:29	00:14:21:02	to use or harvest the resource,
00:14:21:02	00:14:22:15	that the tribes had retained
00:14:22:15	00:14:24:14	that part of their sovereignty
00:14:24:14	00:14:26:23	on those rights to be able
00:14:26:23	00:14:28:12	to self-regulate, as sovereign
00:14:28:12	00:14:30:11	governments, to regulate their
00:14:30:11	00:14:32:05	own people when they were
00:14:32:05	00:14:34:04	exercising their rights.
00:14:34:04	00:14:35:22	So there were authorizations
00:14:35:22	00:14:37:11	for tribal law enforcement
00:14:37:11	00:14:39:10	and tribal courts
00:14:39:10	00:14:41:26	to adjudicate violations.
00:14:41:26	00:14:43:10	>> The establishment of courts
00:14:43:10	00:14:45:06	started as a conservation court,
00:14:45:06	00:14:47:16	if you will, enforcing the rules
00:14:47:16	00:14:49:01	governing hunting, trapping,
00:14:49:01	00:14:51:26	gathering and fishing.
00:14:51:26	00:14:52:26	>> In the development of these
00:14:52:26	00:14:55:24	conservation courts, the tribes
00:14:55:24	00:14:58:14	have expanded their jurisdiction
00:14:58:14	00:15:00:27	to include family issues,
00:15:00:27	00:15:03:16	to include civil dispute issues
00:15:03:16	00:15:04:22	on the reservation.
00:15:04:22	00:15:06:22	These are things that the tribe
00:15:06:22	00:15:09:10	never gave up the power to do.
00:15:09:10	00:15:10:26	They just didn't have
00:15:10:26	00:15:12:07	the mechanism to do it.
00:15:12:07	00:15:13:06	They didn't have
00:15:13:06	00:15:14:01	the judicial system.
00:15:14:01	00:15:15:18	But now that they have them,
00:15:15:18	00:15:17:14	they can use it for purposes
00:15:17:14	00:15:18:28	other than
00:15:18:28	00:15:22:19	the conservation laws.
00:15:22:19	00:15:23:28	>> As the Ojibwe tribal courts
00:15:23:28	00:15:26:07	grew, Wisconsin's other tribes
00:15:26:07	00:15:27:25	also began to expand their
00:15:27:25	00:15:30:03	court systems.
00:15:30:03	00:15:31:08	>> Tribes are starting
00:15:31:08	00:15:33:02	to do more things on their own.
00:15:33:02	00:15:34:19	Tribal courts were in their
00:15:34:19	00:15:36:00	infancy stage, and everything
00:15:36:00	00:15:37:14	was growing, you know,
00:15:37:14	00:15:38:11	we started taking on
00:15:38:11	00:15:39:18	more responsibilities
00:15:39:18	00:15:40:22	at the same time.
00:15:40:22	00:15:41:25	>> One of the things
00:15:41:25	00:15:43:03	that has been happening
00:15:43:03	00:15:44:19	over the last 25 years,
00:15:44:19	00:15:46:12	is that the tribes have had
00:15:46:12	00:15:47:26	the resources now that they
00:15:47:26	00:15:50:04	haven't had for 200 years.
00:15:50:04	00:15:51:16	And they have the resources now
00:15:51:16	00:15:53:12	to develop the institutions
00:15:53:12	00:15:55:10	within their communities, that
00:15:55:10	00:15:58:12	define what a government is.
00:16:01:01	00:16:02:25	>> Each tribe that entered into
00:16:02:25	00:16:04:13	a treaty negotiation
00:16:04:13	00:16:06:09	was considered a nation.
00:16:06:09	00:16:07:26	And since they are a nation,
00:16:07:26	00:16:08:29	they develop
00:16:08:29	00:16:10:18	their own ordinances.
00:16:10:18	00:16:11:20	So Bad River will have their own
00:16:11:20	00:16:13:25	tribal car license, for example.
00:16:13:25	00:16:15:03	Lac Courte Oreilles
00:16:15:03	00:16:16:13	will have their own licence.
00:16:16:13	00:16:17:23	Oneida has Oneida Nation.
00:16:17:23	00:16:19:05	Menomonie Nation.
00:16:19:05	00:16:20:12	Ho-Chunk Nation.
00:16:20:12	00:16:21:20	>> There are 11 sovereign
00:16:21:20	00:16:23:01	nations within, basically,
00:16:23:01	00:16:24:21	the state of Wisconsin.
00:16:24:21	00:16:26:04	So you have actually,
00:16:26:04	00:16:27:13	12 sovereign nations
00:16:27:13	00:16:28:24	to deal with in such a little,
00:16:28:24	00:16:30:22	small area such as the state
00:16:30:22	00:16:32:29	of Wisconsin.
00:16:32:29	00:16:34:02	>> And we're all different,
00:16:34:02	00:16:35:11	which I think is something
00:16:35:11	00:16:36:17	that a lot of individuals
00:16:36:17	00:16:37:25	don't really seem to understand.
00:16:37:25	00:16:39:07	They try to put tribes
00:16:39:07	00:16:40:24	underneath a big umbrella
00:16:40:24	00:16:42:18	of Native Americans.
00:16:42:18	00:16:43:20	But when it comes
00:16:43:20	00:16:44:24	to court systems,
00:16:44:24	00:16:46:06	we have very different laws.
00:16:46:06	00:16:47:07	>> Each one of them have
00:16:47:07	00:16:48:14	their own system of justice.
00:16:48:14	00:16:49:21	And it was set up
00:16:49:21	00:16:51:26	according to their people.
00:16:51:26	00:16:53:00	And each one of them
00:16:53:00	00:16:54:21	have their own governments.
00:16:54:21	00:16:55:25	>> When we talk about working
00:16:55:25	00:16:57:00	with tribal courts,
00:16:57:00	00:16:58:02	we're talking about working
00:16:58:02	00:16:59:05	with the tribal courts in these
00:16:59:05	00:17:00:15	individual sovereign nations.
00:17:00:15	00:17:01:17	So we have to have relations
00:17:01:17	00:17:02:26	with each of those sovereigns,
00:17:02:26	00:17:04:03	much like we would
00:17:04:03	00:17:06:00	with 11 different countries.
00:17:10:02	00:17:11:05	>> What we're doing here today
00:17:11:05	00:17:12:16	is bringing state and tribal
00:17:12:16	00:17:13:23	judiciaries together
00:17:13:23	00:17:15:00	to gain a better understanding
00:17:15:00	00:17:17:12	of each other.
00:17:17:12	00:17:20:05	And we saw a need to do
00:17:20:05	00:17:23:17	a more informal approach.
00:17:23:17	00:17:24:21	>> I think the philosophy
00:17:24:21	00:17:26:10	was to make it a very informal
00:17:26:10	00:17:28:06	discussion, to just kind of
00:17:28:06	00:17:29:21	facilitate the information
00:17:29:21	00:17:31:17	between the two courts.
00:17:31:17	00:17:32:21	>> All of these judges
00:17:32:21	00:17:33:20	here today come from
00:17:33:20	00:17:34:17	different counties,
00:17:34:17	00:17:35:16	and have different experiences
00:17:35:16	00:17:37:04	with different tribes.
00:17:37:04	00:17:38:16	>> We get to know each other.
00:17:38:16	00:17:40:13	There is very little "judge"
00:17:40:13	00:17:42:12	or "your honor" being used.
00:17:42:12	00:17:43:27	It's first name basis, and I
00:17:43:27	00:17:45:14	think that is really important,
00:17:45:14	00:17:47:26	to create that understanding.
00:17:47:26	00:17:49:03	John, if you can over simplify
00:17:49:03	00:17:50:16	this, I'm sending you
00:17:50:16	00:17:51:24	to Washington!
00:17:51:24	00:17:53:15	>> How do you decide
00:17:53:15	00:17:54:25	these differences in laws?
00:17:54:25	00:17:56:28	How do you resolve the problem
00:17:56:28	00:18:00:13	of when you have two sovereigns?
00:18:00:13	00:18:01:15	>> A tribal member
00:18:01:15	00:18:02:28	comes into a state court
00:18:02:28	00:18:05:04	and wants something adjudicated.
00:18:05:04	00:18:06:03	Well, the state court judges
00:18:06:03	00:18:07:07	take a step back and say,
00:18:07:07	00:18:08:24	wait a second, this is happening
00:18:08:24	00:18:10:05	for a tribal member,
00:18:10:05	00:18:11:25	on tribal lands.
00:18:11:25	00:18:13:03	Why is it that I'm exercising
00:18:13:03	00:18:14:17	jurisdiction?
00:18:14:17	00:18:16:22	>> This should be a decision
00:18:16:22	00:18:20:07	made on a concept of comity.
00:18:20:07	00:18:22:12	And that is a legal concept
00:18:22:12	00:18:24:07	that says that whenever you're
00:18:24:07	00:18:25:27	dealing with two sovereigns,
00:18:25:27	00:18:28:27	that you begin by recognizing
00:18:28:27	00:18:30:21	each other as a sovereign.
00:18:30:21	00:18:32:22	You begin by respecting
00:18:32:22	00:18:35:10	each other's laws and cultures
00:18:35:10	00:18:36:18	that affect the people
00:18:36:18	00:18:38:06	of that sovereignty.
00:18:38:06	00:18:39:25	And then, you're willing to
00:18:39:25	00:18:42:08	make decisions that are based
00:18:42:08	00:18:44:01	more or less on consensus
00:18:44:01	00:18:45:07	and agreement
00:18:45:07	00:18:48:07	of how to share that power.
00:18:51:13	00:18:53:21	You have to sit down and talk.
00:18:53:21	00:18:55:16	And so, the most effective way
00:18:55:16	00:18:57:03	to deal with the issues of
00:18:57:03	00:18:58:05	jurisdiction between state
00:18:58:05	00:18:59:23	and tribal courts
00:18:59:23	00:19:01:14	is for the judges to sit down
00:19:01:14	00:19:02:22	and to know each other, get to
00:19:02:22	00:19:04:00	know each other personally,
00:19:04:00	00:19:05:06	to be able to pick up the phone
00:19:05:06	00:19:06:09	and to be able to call
00:19:06:09	00:19:07:20	each other when you have issues
00:19:07:20	00:19:09:04	that come where there's conflict
00:19:09:04	00:19:10:13	between the jurisdictions,
00:19:10:13	00:19:11:21	and to have an agreed way
00:19:11:21	00:19:13:16	of solving that.
00:19:13:16	00:19:14:22	>> Judge Anderson holds
00:19:14:22	00:19:17:11	District court in Red Cliff
00:19:17:11	00:19:19:13	once about every six weeks.
00:19:19:13	00:19:21:00	>> Every 60 days.
00:19:21:00	00:19:22:10	That's worked out real well.
00:19:22:10	00:19:23:15	Not only is it convenient
00:19:23:15	00:19:24:29	for the people that live on the
00:19:24:29	00:19:26:26	northern tip of the peninsula
00:19:26:26	00:19:29:13	of Bayfield County to get to the
00:19:29:13	00:19:31:00	Red Cliff Court building easier,
00:19:31:00	00:19:33:10	but it also gives a chance for
00:19:33:10	00:19:34:28	Judge Gurnoe and I to sit down
00:19:34:28	00:19:36:13	and chat about, is there
00:19:36:13	00:19:37:20	anything that we need to talk
00:19:37:20	00:19:38:28	about, are there any cases
00:19:38:28	00:19:40:03	that are coming up
00:19:40:03	00:19:41:10	that we either have a concern
00:19:41:10	00:19:42:22	that it needs to get moved
00:19:42:22	00:19:44:08	from one court to the other.
00:19:44:08	00:19:45:09	>> I mostly like to deal
00:19:45:09	00:19:46:15	in uncontested divorces.
00:19:46:15	00:19:48:04	>> Don't we all?
00:19:48:04	00:19:49:26	>> Don't we all.
00:19:49:26	00:19:51:08	But actually, I'm able to use
00:19:51:08	00:19:53:15	Judge Anderson as the Boogeyman
00:19:53:15	00:19:55:09	when people come in.
00:19:55:09	00:19:56:11	If you've got
00:19:56:11	00:19:57:22	an uncontested divorce,
00:19:57:22	00:19:59:10	I'll be happy to hear that.
00:19:59:10	00:20:00:18	If you want to argue about
00:20:00:18	00:20:01:17	who gets the pot
00:20:01:17	00:20:02:16	and who gets the pan,
00:20:02:16	00:20:03:18	you can take it over
00:20:03:18	00:20:04:29	to Judge Anderson.
00:20:04:29	00:20:06:06	(both laugh)
00:20:06:06	00:20:07:10	Which is kind of
00:20:07:10	00:20:08:16	a dirty trick on you.
00:20:08:16	00:20:10:02	>> That's okay.
00:20:10:02	00:20:11:18	>> We each share it and have
00:20:11:18	00:20:14:00	concurrent laws, and yet,
00:20:14:00	00:20:16:06	if we pick up a telephone
00:20:16:06	00:20:17:27	or if we see each other
00:20:17:27	00:20:20:07	and talk to each other, I think
00:20:20:07	00:20:22:02	we can decide which jurisdiction
00:20:22:02	00:20:23:26	it's going to be held on,
00:20:23:26	00:20:25:09	so that justice to the people
00:20:25:09	00:20:26:19	can be delivered, and
00:20:26:19	00:20:28:25	can be delivered in a fair way.
00:20:28:25	00:20:31:00	And that's the ultimate goal
00:20:31:00	00:20:32:23	of a circuit court judge
00:20:32:23	00:20:34:21	and any tribal court judge.
00:20:34:21	00:20:36:06	The common ground is justice,
00:20:36:06	00:20:38:00	and justice for all, the state
00:20:38:00	00:20:41:11	and the other 11 nations.
00:20:45:17	00:20:47:06	>> For more information,
00:20:47:06	00:20:48:17	visit us on the Web at:
00:20:48:17	00:20:52:28	ecb.org/engage
00:21:00:11	00:21:01:15	>> We all think we know
00:21:01:15	00:21:02:25	what government is.
00:21:02:25	00:21:03:29	>> How it works
00:21:03:29	00:21:05:07	and what it does.
00:21:05:07	00:21:06:22	>> But what is it really?
00:21:06:22	00:21:07:26	What do we mean
00:21:07:26	00:21:09:11	by "government"?
00:21:09:11	00:21:10:23	>> Is it this?
00:21:10:23	00:21:12:19	>> Or this?
00:21:12:19	00:21:13:16	>> Are these people
00:21:13:16	00:21:14:20	the government?
00:21:14:20	00:21:16:06	>> Are you?
00:21:16:06	00:21:17:06	>> These are just some
00:21:17:06	00:21:18:06	of the questions we'll try
00:21:18:06	00:21:19:14	to answer for you today.
00:21:19:14	00:21:21:16	>> On Engage.
00:21:26:20	00:21:27:25	>> Hi, I'm Zach.
00:21:27:25	00:21:28:28	>> And I'm Paloma.
00:21:28:28	00:21:30:03	Each of Wisconsin's
00:21:30:03	00:21:31:05	11 tribal nations has
00:21:31:05	00:21:32:17	its own system of government.
00:21:32:17	00:21:33:22	And that includes 11 separate
00:21:33:22	00:21:35:13	court systems with courtrooms
00:21:35:13	00:21:36:25	just like this one.
00:21:36:25	00:21:37:24	>> So what's it like
00:21:37:24	00:21:38:23	to be a tribal judge?
00:21:38:23	00:21:39:25	Let's follow a judge
00:21:39:25	00:21:40:26	from the Ho-Chunk Nation,
00:21:40:26	00:21:41:23	Amanda Rockman,
00:21:41:23	00:21:43:26	as she goes about a typical day.
00:21:48:11	00:21:49:29	>> Under the marriage ordinance
00:21:49:29	00:21:51:03	that the Ho-Chunk Nation
00:21:51:03	00:21:52:10	legislature has enacted,
00:21:52:10	00:21:53:16	judicial officers
00:21:53:16	00:21:55:06	can perform weddings.
00:21:55:06	00:21:56:10	We are gathered here
00:21:56:10	00:21:57:13	to celebrate the coming together
00:21:57:13	00:21:58:12	of two people
00:21:58:12	00:21:59:14	in the bonds of marriage.
00:21:59:14	00:22:01:09	Marriage is a special contract
00:22:01:09	00:22:03:05	of care, affection and support
00:22:03:05	00:22:04:11	that is mutually
00:22:04:11	00:22:06:01	and legally binding.
00:22:06:01	00:22:07:26	My name is Amanda Rockman.
00:22:07:26	00:22:09:05	I am the Associate Judge for the
00:22:09:05	00:22:11:05	Ho-Chunk Nation Trial Court.
00:22:11:05	00:22:12:18	I hear cases
00:22:12:18	00:22:14:16	of civil jurisdiction.
00:22:14:16	00:22:16:27	My main responsibility would be
00:22:16:27	00:22:18:05	to promptly and timely
00:22:18:05	00:22:20:10	adjudicate cases.
00:22:20:10	00:22:22:01	I'm reviewing a case
00:22:22:01	00:22:24:02	prior to the hearing.
00:22:24:02	00:22:25:15	I've read this case before.
00:22:25:15	00:22:27:10	However, we have a docket
00:22:27:10	00:22:29:00	consisting of over 300 cases.
00:22:29:00	00:22:30:08	We want to review each one
00:22:30:08	00:22:32:20	before going into the courtroom.
00:22:32:20	00:22:33:23	Today, we're going to be hearing
00:22:33:23	00:22:35:07	oral arguments for
00:22:35:07	00:22:37:28	administrative review hearings.
00:22:37:28	00:22:39:10	Parties have an opportunity
00:22:39:10	00:22:44:19	to advocate for their clients.
00:22:44:19	00:22:45:26	The courthouse
00:22:45:26	00:22:47:05	was struck by lightning.
00:22:47:05	00:22:48:06	It screwed up our entire
00:22:48:06	00:22:49:22	electrical system.
00:22:49:22	00:22:51:11	And it is sometimes
00:22:51:11	00:22:54:01	boiling hot in there.
00:22:54:01	00:22:55:14	In order to make sure
00:22:55:14	00:22:56:25	the parties know how much time
00:22:56:25	00:22:58:01	they're given for their
00:22:58:01	00:22:59:23	oral arguments, I needed a way
00:22:59:23	00:23:02:28	to gauge their time.
00:23:02:28	00:23:04:02	Let the record show
00:23:04:02	00:23:06:01	the time is now 11:42.
00:23:06:01	00:23:07:14	The court no longer has
00:23:07:14	00:23:08:29	a laptop, because when the court
00:23:08:29	00:23:10:04	was struck by lightning,
00:23:10:04	00:23:11:23	it actually affected our laptop.
00:23:11:23	00:23:12:26	So, we usually have
00:23:12:26	00:23:13:29	a drop-down screen, which
00:23:13:29	00:23:16:03	indicates the time allocations.
00:23:16:03	00:23:17:12	But I'm going to be using
00:23:17:12	00:23:19:19	my cell phone with a stopwatch.
00:23:19:19	00:23:20:19	So, if you get close
00:23:20:19	00:23:22:04	to the 15-minute mark,
00:23:22:04	00:23:23:21	do you want me to stop you?
00:23:23:21	00:23:24:23	>> Sure.
00:23:24:23	00:23:25:24	>> Okay, if you'd
00:23:25:24	00:23:27:03	like to proceed.
00:23:27:03	00:23:28:15	>> Mr. Murphy and his client...
00:23:28:15	00:23:29:16	>> We like to give them
00:23:29:16	00:23:31:01	as much as 20 minutes
00:23:31:01	00:23:33:02	to discuss their arguments.
00:23:33:02	00:23:34:14	That's just an even amount of
00:23:34:14	00:23:36:19	time that each party is given.
00:23:36:19	00:23:37:29	>> It came out in July 3, 2006,
00:23:37:29	00:23:39:17	I believe...
00:23:39:17	00:23:41:11	>> I enjoy the courtroom.
00:23:41:11	00:23:43:03	A number of people
00:23:43:03	00:23:46:02	bring very persuasive arguments.
00:23:46:02	00:23:48:21	It keeps you on your toes.
00:23:48:21	00:23:49:25	>> I'm just left wondering,
00:23:49:25	00:23:52:10	how does one decide
00:23:52:10	00:23:55:04	what date it should be.
00:23:55:04	00:23:56:21	>> The court will take
00:23:56:21	00:23:58:08	everything into consideration
00:23:58:08	00:23:59:11	that was stated today
00:23:59:11	00:24:01:12	when rendering its decision.
00:24:01:12	00:24:03:09	What I do, is I make decisions.
00:24:03:09	00:24:04:17	And I like to think
00:24:04:17	00:24:05:14	the decisions I make
00:24:05:14	00:24:06:12	are well written
00:24:06:12	00:24:07:11	and are articulated well,
00:24:07:11	00:24:08:13	so people know what it is
00:24:08:13	00:24:10:01	that they're supposed to do.
00:24:10:01	00:24:11:13	Let the record show
00:24:11:13	00:24:13:18	the time is now 12:04,
00:24:13:18	00:24:16:22	and we'll adjourn this matter.
00:24:16:22	00:24:18:14	After each hearing, I tend to
00:24:18:14	00:24:20:05	come back to my office
00:24:20:05	00:24:22:24	and type what has transpired.
00:24:22:24	00:24:24:10	Sometimes I actually start
00:24:24:10	00:24:25:24	drafting the opinion itself,
00:24:25:24	00:24:27:16	hit the print button,
00:24:27:16	00:24:30:06	grab a copy, mark it up.
00:24:30:06	00:24:32:04	Other times, if it's a case that
00:24:32:04	00:24:33:21	I need to do more research on
00:24:33:21	00:24:35:20	and look at other cases that are
00:24:35:20	00:24:37:07	similar, I'll print out those
00:24:37:07	00:24:38:19	other cases, mark it up where
00:24:38:19	00:24:40:01	I agree with, or disagree with,
00:24:40:01	00:24:42:08	what I'm bound by.
00:24:42:08	00:24:43:10	What I'm bound by is what
00:24:43:10	00:24:45:22	the Supreme Court articulates.
00:24:45:22	00:24:48:03	So, it's a work in progress.
00:24:48:03	00:24:49:14	It sometimes takes
00:24:49:14	00:24:52:00	a considerable amount of time.
00:24:58:05	00:24:59:10	My work is important, but
00:24:59:10	00:25:02:18	my family is really important.
00:25:02:18	00:25:04:02	I have two children.
00:25:04:02	00:25:07:27	Alena is six, and John is four.
00:25:07:27	00:25:09:14	Both are incredibly outgoing
00:25:09:14	00:25:12:13	and loving children.
00:25:12:13	00:25:13:24	They are both very bright
00:25:13:24	00:25:15:16	and very stubborn.
00:25:15:16	00:25:16:22	>> Can you have
00:25:16:22	00:25:19:06	that kind of car?
00:25:19:06	00:25:20:22	>> Where would I put you guys?
00:25:20:22	00:25:21:27	>> In the back.
00:25:21:27	00:25:23:06	>> There is no back.
00:25:23:06	00:25:25:17	That'd be the trunk!
00:25:25:17	00:25:27:01	>> Oh, I do not want to be
00:25:27:01	00:25:28:07	in a trunk.
00:25:28:07	00:25:29:11	>> My mom and dad
00:25:29:11	00:25:33:19	live here in Black River Falls.
00:25:33:19	00:25:36:01	Alena is really enthused about
00:25:36:01	00:25:39:09	golf, which is exciting to me.
00:25:39:09	00:25:40:29	>> Good try, Alena!
00:25:40:29	00:25:42:12	And John is really interested
00:25:42:12	00:25:44:14	in putting.
00:25:46:18	00:25:48:04	(laughs)
00:25:48:04	00:25:50:03	Good job!
00:25:50:03	00:25:52:02	My dad was in the military,
00:25:52:02	00:25:53:14	so I was born in Grand Forks,
00:25:53:14	00:25:54:20	North Dakota,
00:25:54:20	00:25:57:15	on the Air Force base.
00:25:57:15	00:25:58:21	I just feel like my parents
00:25:58:21	00:25:59:28	always go above and beyond
00:25:59:28	00:26:01:23	what's requested of them.
00:26:01:23	00:26:03:02	>> There you go, Johnny!
00:26:03:02	00:26:04:02	>> They're just really
00:26:04:02	00:26:05:05	supportive individuals.
00:26:05:05	00:26:06:12	They've always encouraged me
00:26:06:12	00:26:07:17	to do whatever it is
00:26:07:17	00:26:08:19	that I wanted to do,
00:26:08:19	00:26:10:00	in terms of education.
00:26:10:00	00:26:12:10	>> Oh, oh!
00:26:12:10	00:26:13:16	She beat me!
00:26:13:16	00:26:14:11	(laughter)
00:26:14:11	00:26:15:15	>> What?
00:26:15:15	00:26:16:20	>> She beat me!
00:26:16:20	00:26:18:03	>> Alena won? Uh-oh!
00:26:18:03	00:26:19:04	>> They are incredibly
00:26:19:04	00:26:20:18	hard workers.
00:26:20:18	00:26:22:16	My mom is one of
00:26:22:16	00:26:24:23	the sharpest ladies I know.
00:26:24:23	00:26:26:01	I guess that's what makes them
00:26:26:01	00:26:27:16	my heroes, just their entire
00:26:27:16	00:26:30:18	package of my mom and dad.
00:26:30:18	00:26:32:01	>> When she was young,
00:26:32:01	00:26:33:16	I can't remember what age she
00:26:33:16	00:26:35:10	was or what grade she was in.
00:26:35:10	00:26:36:24	>> She was like five or six.
00:26:36:24	00:26:37:24	>> And she said she wanted
00:26:37:24	00:26:38:25	to be a lawyer.
00:26:38:25	00:26:39:28	And I thought, okay,
00:26:39:28	00:26:41:18	well, it sounds good.
00:26:41:18	00:26:42:26	Continue with your studies,
00:26:42:26	00:26:44:10	and that's all you can do.
00:26:44:10	00:26:45:11	>> He always wanted me
00:26:45:11	00:26:46:11	to go to the UW.
00:26:46:11	00:26:47:07	That's actually
00:26:47:07	00:26:48:07	where I ended up going.
00:26:48:07	00:26:49:12	I'm very happy that I did.
00:26:49:12	00:26:50:18	>> When she was going to college
00:26:50:18	00:26:52:15	at the time, she was married
00:26:52:15	00:26:55:01	and she was pregnant, going
00:26:55:01	00:26:56:14	through school, and everything.
00:26:56:14	00:26:57:20	And I thought, oh, my god,
00:26:57:20	00:26:58:23	how much more stress
00:26:58:23	00:26:59:23	can you put on yourself?
00:26:59:23	00:27:00:21	Being pregnant
00:27:00:21	00:27:01:24	and going to school, law school,
00:27:01:24	00:27:02:27	and everything.
00:27:02:27	00:27:04:19	>> Once I got to law school,
00:27:04:19	00:27:05:20	I had Alena
00:27:05:20	00:27:06:25	during my first semester,
00:27:06:25	00:27:08:16	and John during my last.
00:27:08:16	00:27:10:06	And you have to make time for
00:27:10:06	00:27:12:11	your children, your family, but
00:27:12:11	00:27:15:14	still put an emphasis on school.
00:27:15:14	00:27:18:25	So it was tough.
00:27:18:25	00:27:21:19	(kids laughing)
00:27:28:08	00:27:29:25	You know, I must say
00:27:29:25	00:27:31:05	that the juvenile cases
00:27:31:05	00:27:32:28	are very difficult for me.
00:27:32:28	00:27:34:24	By and large, it's because
00:27:34:24	00:27:38:01	I do have children.
00:27:38:01	00:27:39:05	But I also think that
00:27:39:05	00:27:40:12	that makes me a really strong
00:27:40:12	00:27:42:05	judicial officer, because
00:27:42:05	00:27:43:16	I can empathize with parents,
00:27:43:16	00:27:44:23	but I can also understand
00:27:44:23	00:27:47:24	the concerns and the threats.
00:27:50:01	00:27:51:10	I enjoy the writing aspects
00:27:51:10	00:27:52:19	of things.
00:27:52:19	00:27:54:06	I enjoy having a well written
00:27:54:06	00:27:56:05	product, and putting thought
00:27:56:05	00:27:58:12	and effort into it.
00:27:58:12	00:27:59:26	I'm just really excited to be
00:27:59:26	00:28:03:21	a part of a developing case law.
00:28:03:21	00:28:05:02	The nation enacted
00:28:05:02	00:28:08:01	its constitution in 1994.
00:28:08:01	00:28:09:08	And the body of case law that's
00:28:09:08	00:28:10:24	being written, if you think
00:28:10:24	00:28:12:02	about when the United States
00:28:12:02	00:28:13:28	constitution was enacted, and
00:28:13:28	00:28:15:11	what their judicial officers
00:28:15:11	00:28:16:24	decided, that's kind of
00:28:16:24	00:28:18:13	the place we're in, in terms
00:28:18:13	00:28:19:27	of what has the Supreme Court
00:28:19:27	00:28:21:01	said about it.
00:28:21:01	00:28:22:15	If they haven't said anything,
00:28:22:15	00:28:25:08	well, the door is wide open.
00:28:25:08	00:28:26:14	It's really exciting
00:28:26:14	00:28:27:24	that I'm the individual,
00:28:27:24	00:28:29:20	or the other judges are the
00:28:29:20	00:28:32:10	individuals that can really
00:28:32:10	00:28:35:04	begin to get the ball rolling,
00:28:35:04	00:28:36:05	because I'm not saying,
00:28:36:05	00:28:37:04	oh, this is a case that's
00:28:37:04	00:28:38:09	already been decided,
00:28:38:09	00:28:39:18	we've already had this issue.
00:28:39:18	00:28:40:19	Sure, it's been decided in other
00:28:40:19	00:28:41:28	jurisdictions, but it hasn't
00:28:41:28	00:28:43:23	been decided in ours.
00:28:43:23	00:28:45:20	So, if there's a way in which
00:28:45:20	00:28:47:07	to distinguish it, that's
00:28:47:07	00:28:49:00	something that's exciting,
00:28:49:00	00:28:50:02	because you know,
00:28:50:02	00:28:51:09	we're not going to follow
00:28:51:09	00:28:54:24	all of the western laws.
00:28:54:24	00:28:56:09	I can consult the traditional
00:28:56:09	00:28:58:16	court about traditional custom.
00:28:58:16	00:29:00:15	I can rely on some of the
00:29:00:15	00:29:02:06	federal cases to see if
00:29:02:06	00:29:03:14	perhaps they'll be persuasive
00:29:03:14	00:29:05:05	in my decisions.
00:29:05:05	00:29:06:15	And just sort of recognizing
00:29:06:15	00:29:08:03	that you know, this area of,
00:29:08:03	00:29:11:16	I guess, law, could just have
00:29:11:16	00:29:14:17	a huge, profound effect
00:29:14:17	00:29:16:08	not only on the tribe,
00:29:16:08	00:29:18:26	but on its members.
00:29:18:26	00:29:19:29	So, I like to keep my writing
00:29:19:29	00:29:21:15	readable.
00:29:21:15	00:29:23:09	I like to remain accessible.
00:29:23:09	00:29:24:29	If we need a hearing,
00:29:24:29	00:29:26:16	I'm flexible.
00:29:26:16	00:29:28:00	I'm really trying to help
00:29:28:00	00:29:29:26	people, and to keep learning,
00:29:29:26	00:29:31:18	following through,
00:29:31:18	00:29:33:05	working at the law.
00:29:33:05	00:29:34:16	This has been very inspiring,
00:29:34:16	00:29:36:24	and I hope to continue it.
00:29:39:11	00:29:40:29	>> For more information,
00:29:40:29	00:29:42:16	visit us on the Web at:
00:29:42:16	00:29:46:17	ecb.org/engage