>> I think local government
is what will impact them
the most in their daily lives
when they're adults.
And I think it's a part of
the curriculum that is
often missing.
I think current events
are really important.
And I didn't want current events
to be something that kids hate.
I wanted something that would
engage them, and they would go
out on their own and read
the paper, and things.
I think you have to,
on an emotional level, if you
can connect them a little bit,
that's helpful.
If you teach a controversy,
where you're giving multiple
perspectives on the issue,
that's an appropriate thing
to do.
All right, so today what
we're going to do, is
we're going to look at a lesson
about Native American mascots.
So what I want you guys to do,
is you can kind of see
these images.
What words or images
come to mind when viewing
the Indian mascot?
Any?
It's word association.
What do you think of
when you see these images?
I'll put them back.
Word association.
You have like two minutes.
>> I just think about
the stereotypes toward Indians.
>> Anthony, what did you think?
>> Team spirit.
>> Dances with Wolves,
with Kevin Costner.
(laughter)
>> Cowboys.
>> Indians.
>> Cowboys and Indians.
>> Baseball.
>> Baseball? Why baseball?
>> Because that's a mascot.
>> I think what's interesting
from your images and your words
is that some of you had negative
images, and some of you had
positive images, which is
interesting, because our issue
today raises a lot
of emotional issues,
some on the positive side
and some on the negative side.
So what we're going to look at
today, and our question is,
should Wisconsin ban the use
of Indian mascots and logos
in their public schools?
I had divided them from the
groups of four into partners.
And they have to talk about what
they thought two good arguments
were that they already heard.
And then, my goal on this lesson
was for them to find
one additional new argument
to support that side.
And I'm going to put you
in groups of four, okay.
So that's the group
you're going to be working
on this issue with.
From the four, you're going
to break into pairs.
Two are going to support
and two are going to oppose
the issue of mascots.
Once they learn about an issue,
they become more engaged.
And what I found is that
a variety of different issues
engage different kids,
so you have to provide
a variety of issues, because
some will engage some students
and some will engage others.
To start with, though,
I thought I'd provide to you
a variety of information.
So I'm going to show you,
actually, two video clips.
And you're going to find
arguments, both to support
the yes and the no argument.
So I think what I'd do is just
jot down a few words or images
about some of the arguments
you heard,
while you remember them.
And you can expand on them
before I show you
the other videotape.
>> And so, when the Chief
stepped foot on the court
one last time, it seemed as if
the fans knew that they were
witnessing something historic,
the end of a controversial era.
The Chief's last dance.
>> Students can bring
the awareness to me.
They might have an issue
or concern
that they want to talk about.
I look in the paper.
I watch the news.
I like to think
I'm an engaged citizen.
So, I can bring some awareness
to them about what's going on
in the world.
And if I'm engaged,
their parents might be engaged.
It's kind of an interesting
marriage between what
the kids are interested in and
what's going on in the world.
Find as many arguments
as you can, okay?
Write them in your notes
and then you and your partner
will discuss what you think
are the top four.
>> So, we're supposed to like,
skim these and?
>> Yeah.
>> Those who want
the name changed
would like it changed to what?
The Pussy Cats
or the Fighting Librarians?
You don't name your own team
after someone or something
you don't respect.
>> They had me
for like the first paragraph.
After that, it was ridiculous.
It's like you could name it
a bunch of other stuff.
>> It may be a violation
of civil rights, it says.
>> I think when
a teacher comes to the table,
you always have biases.
By providing multiple
perspectives in the classroom
and when leading the discussion,
not saying, "Really,
that's your position?"
You know, I want to make it
feel like they can have
the perspective they want,
just support it with evidence,
and teach good arguing skills,
but not tell them how
they have to think or believe.
I heard you over there say,
"I already have opinions,
I don't need to write
stuff down."
See if there are other arguments
that help support your position
on this.
>> They want to keep it around,
because it means something
to the students, and just like,
it makes the school
a better place.
If they got rid of the mascot,
I think the school
would just get worse.
>> On the issue, I'm just hoping
that they can have
a broader understanding
of the controversy, why it's
a controversy, and perhaps
why people are pretty emotional
about it.
>> All they're saying
is that they want to honor the
Native Americans, and not like,
discriminate them.
They're not trying
to take them down.
>> I think, to be an engaged
and active citizen is a really
important goal of a government
and a social studies curriculum.
That was why I hadn't
jumped to the activism part.
Because I knew that they weren't
ready to go there yet.
I wanted them to keep exploring
the two sides of the issue.
And I thought it was interesting
that at the end they were
actually addressing one another.
That's one of the big goals
of my discussion.
It's not me that they have to
direct all their comments to.
They should be talking
to one another,
and addressing themselves.
>> There's other mascots
that are for like Irish people,
and stuff like that.
It's not like
they're getting offended.
But I think
they take it differently,
because of the past history.
>> I'm looking at all of these
in Wisconsin.
It is such a big part of
our culture, because of all the
Indian tribes that were here.
It's been part of our history.
It's an important thing
to be representing.
>> He's in the school district
right next door.
He's arguing that they shouldn't
have their Native American
mascot.
>> Okay, 81%.
>> 81% of Americans said that
they shouldn't use mascots
for high school and college.
And 83% said no for pro teams.
>> It kind of seems like
most of them are saying no
for anything at all.
Native Americans are like,
they don't want it, because
the way they're using it now
is derogatory.
>> So, what from the video,
what from this do you think are
the most compelling arguments?
You don't have to agree with
them, but just the arguments
that you think
are the most compelling.
Think about once you have
four really good arguments,
you're going to team up with
them and share what arguments
you came up with.
>> If they want them banned,
they should be able to like,
have the opinion of banning
them, because like,
I'm not Native American.
Sam and I
both talked about this.
>> Yeah.
>> We're not Native Americans.
>> People use them, like
an Indian as their mascot,
because they thought
that it showed their opposition
that they were fierce,
and they were ready to win.
>> Our first argument was that
having Indians as a mascot
is not trying to demoralize
Native Americans.
It's more of an honor
for the Native Americans.
>> For ours, we said
it was disrespectful
to the Indian beliefs.
Mostly because it's like being
like they're wanting to fight.
>> We don't have, like,
Mexicans as mascots,
or black people as your mascots.
We're people, and we're all
the same, so I don't think
we should use people
as our mascots.
>> The lesson was done
in two days.
So I want you
to switch positions.
Find and talk about what
you think the two best ones
are that you've already heard.
Try to come up with a new one.
Then I want you to come back
together as a group of four,
share your arguments
that you thought were the best.
And then I have a ten-minute
video to show you, to further
enhance your understanding
of the issue.
Yeah, I think video, pictures,
any sort of technology
is important.
Kids are used to that.
They see all these images
all day.
They do those sorts of things.
So, to be able to bring that
into the classroom,
that's part of the engagement,
to have a variety of ways
for them to take in information.
>> People who don't know
as much may not be as careful
how to use it.
>> Okay, so what if you had
a friend who was Native American
and he or she found it
offensive?
>> I'm confused.
The yes side, I think, can say
that they should be banned,
just 'cause they're racist.
But then, the only thing
I agree with on the other side,
is that they show, like, bravery
and power, and stuff,
so it's kind of respectful.
>> But you know, in the same way
you're showing the bravery
and power, you're kind of
showing silliness.
>> But like for the other side,
they show respect.
So, I'm really confused.
>> It's nice that
they're choosing Indians
to portray what's respectful.
What's disrespectful is how
they portray them, you know?
>> Most people that are racist
aren't people that you think
would be.
>> Yeah.
>> I thought that was, that
they used the resources well.
>> We looked at this map
and saw that most of the schools
that have Indians as mascots
are in southern
and eastern Wisconsin,
whereas all the tribes and that
kind of thing, the reservations,
are in northern.
So, we weren't sure
what that meant at first.
But we came to the conclusion
that the people that don't know
as much may not be as careful
to how they use it,
how that may affect people.
>> I think it'd be
more respectful.
Like, we're using it.
>> Showing respect.
>> Like in here,
they're saying how like,
they got the information wrong.
And they're saying that this
one mascot was this chief, but
in reality, he wasn't actually.
>> It does impact your children.
That's what this American
Psychological Association found.
I'm saying that because they're
using Indians as mascots,
the only reason people
are getting upset
is because of the past history
that America has had with them.
>> I have a video.
It's about ten minutes long.
It's going to talk
about this issue.
And what this issue does,
is it brings it now,
down to Wisconsin's level,
at our state level.
So, you're going to meet some
kids from Prescott, Wisconsin.
They do not have an Indian
mascot, but a number of schools
in their conference do.
They are looking more broadly.
Now, we're kind of narrowing
the issue a little bit,
and they can see kids their age
and what they felt
about the issue.
>> Being non-Indian people,
there's a lot of people
who would say,
"Why do you care?"
Why should you care
about an issue like this?
>> We had to write an essay
on our opinion, about do you
think Native American mascots
are offensive.
>> It hurts the self-esteem
of Native Americans.
>> It hits close to home,
because we have a bunch
of schools in our area
that do have Indian mascots.
I know Native Americans,
hearing them say,
"That's very offensive to me,"
made way more of an impact.
>> How many of you,
raise your hand, if you have an
opinion on this issue right now?
Okay.
How many of you are still
forming your opinion right now?
Okay, all right.
This is kind of interesting.
So, I'm going to open it up now,
and let's address our question.
And our question is,
should Wisconsin ban the use
of American Indian mascot logos
in their public schools?
In the discussion that we had
today, it started a little slow.
And so, just allowing students,
kind of that space,
to kind of think about it.
>> I think because
it'll affect a lot of people,
I think it should be voted on
by the people, instead of
the elected, the committee.
>> What do you mean?
>> It should be on the ballot.
>> Oh, so you think this should
be a referendum question
for everyone to weigh in on.
>> Yeah.
>> I think you need to
look at how the mascot
is being depicted, like,
Cleveland's baseball mascot,
I mean, that's pretty bad.
But otherwise, there are some
that it's just an arrow
with a feather.
>> But it does show honor, that
they chose Native Americans,
you know, to be their mascot.
But what the dishonor is,
is how they portray them,
like with the dances
and the tomahawk chop,
and stuff like that.
Like, with the dances
and the war cries, too.
Native Americans,
when they do those things,
it means something.
And for them, it's just like,
just doing it.
They don't know
what they're doing.
>> If people, if they're not
okay with all the dancing,
and stuff, then they
probably shouldn't be using
their mascots.
Because the purpose
that we have them for
is to get everybody going.
So, I don't know if it's
necessarily that we're being
disrespectful to their culture,
or if we're just doing what
the whole purpose, in our minds,
of what a mascot is.
>> Okay, so what I'm hearing
you say, Sarah, is that
you're having trouble,
where do you draw the line.
>> Yeah.
>> It's hard to draw that line
a little bit.
Interesting.
>> I think we should ask,
like in that article,
the actual Native Americans,
and see what they think.
And if they don't mind it,
it shouldn't be changed
because it's not offending
many people at all.
>> There's always going to be
people that don't agree,
so you might as well
just kind of play it safe.
>> But if we do what Morgan
says, then we're going to have
to try and please everyone.
And like, you can't do that,
because someone is always going
to be offended by something,
or not like something else.
>> All right, thank you guys.
You can leave the desks
how they are.
I'll fix them.
Over all, I was pleased with how
they engaged with the materials,
how they talked to one another,
and I thought
they did pretty well.
>> For more information,
visit us on the Web at:
ecb.org/engage