00:00:00:00	00:08:29:00	This is our last song To Know 3
00:08:29:00	00:08:39:00	5 7 8 Things looking OK.
00:08:39:00	00:08:43:00	Uh, I did.
00:08:43:00	00:08:44:00	Let me double check.
00:08:44:00	00:08:50:00	Yeah.
00:08:50:00	00:08:57:00	If you can Think that should be
00:08:57:00	00:08:58:00	OK.
00:08:58:00	00:09:01:00	I'm just wondering whether or
00:09:01:00	00:09:04:00	not to put the word Lab in
00:09:04:00	00:09:05:00	there but was just kind of a
00:09:05:00	00:09:08:00	long Title.
00:09:08:00	00:09:15:00	You know what I mean?
00:09:15:00	00:09:18:00	Oh yeah.
00:09:18:00	00:09:25:00	Why don't you put lab Guest is
00:09:25:00	00:09:26:00	here.
00:09:26:00	00:09:29:00	So I'm gonna go Grab him.
00:09:29:00	00:09:30:00	That's OK.
00:09:30:00	00:09:33:00	Everything else looking
00:09:33:00	00:09:34:00	alright?
00:09:34:00	00:09:40:00	OK.
00:09:40:00	00:09:44:00	I was told I should still
00:09:44:00	00:10:05:00	Through the motions as well.
00:10:05:00	00:10:11:00	All right.
00:10:11:00	00:10:12:00	I'm gonna take you out of my
00:10:12:00	00:10:41:00	ear and go grab the guest.
00:10:41:00	00:10:44:00	>> I will.
00:10:44:00	00:10:47:00	Oh, Oh.
00:10:47:00	00:11:23:00	Taking a while to download.
00:11:23:00	00:11:26:00	Well, I trusted You just added
00:11:26:00	00:11:26:00	the word lab.
00:11:26:00	00:13:15:00	Oh really?
00:13:15:00	00:13:15:00	Oh.
00:13:15:00	00:13:26:00	And Here Your research lab over
00:13:26:00	00:13:28:00	in the financial aid office and
00:13:28:00	00:13:29:00	I was over there this morning
00:13:29:00	00:13:29:00	too.
00:13:29:00	00:13:30:00	Oh, OK.
00:13:30:00	00:13:30:00	Next door.
00:13:30:00	00:13:32:00	Yeah, Yeah.
00:13:32:00	00:13:36:00	Put your jacket there.
00:13:36:00	00:13:39:00	Is that your bag there?
00:13:39:00	00:13:47:00	So I am Just to give you a
00:13:47:00	00:13:48:00	little lay of the land.
00:13:48:00	00:13:54:00	So This camera is connected to
00:13:54:00	00:13:55:00	Some engineers on the third
00:13:55:00	00:13:56:00	floor and they're gonna be
00:13:56:00	00:13:58:00	pumping The stream out for us
00:13:58:00	00:13:59:00	so that we can just focus on
00:13:59:00	00:14:02:00	the conversation And they will
00:14:02:00	00:14:02:00	take us.
00:14:02:00	00:14:05:00	Like why stop?
00:14:05:00	00:14:06:00	Why?
00:14:06:00	00:14:09:00	OK, so there is never a moment
00:14:09:00	00:14:10:00	Where we think we're talking
00:14:10:00	00:14:13:00	behind And I wear this little
00:14:13:00	00:14:16:00	Bluetooth earpiece to Staff
00:14:16:00	00:14:16:00	communication with people.
00:14:16:00	00:14:20:00	The link and then the second
00:14:20:00	00:14:23:00	camera and It's anything but
00:14:23:00	00:14:26:00	it's just in case we use any of
00:14:26:00	00:14:27:00	the Footage for our hearing now
00:14:27:00	00:14:28:00	broadcast or for a different
00:14:28:00	00:14:30:00	segment If they do something
00:14:30:00	00:14:31:00	else on student debt we could
00:14:31:00	00:14:35:00	pull An expert opinion and use
00:14:35:00	00:14:38:00	that piece.
00:14:38:00	00:14:38:00	Yes.
00:14:38:00	00:14:41:00	Well thanks again for
00:14:41:00	00:14:42:00	the invitation.
00:14:42:00	00:14:42:00	Yeah.
00:14:42:00	00:14:48:00	Much ground possibly I.
00:14:48:00	00:14:49:00	>> What did you think of that?
00:14:49:00	00:14:52:00	When Indicators thing that I
00:14:52:00	00:14:55:00	sent you I was a little
00:14:55:00	00:14:59:00	frustrated by this Because a
00:14:59:00	00:15:02:00	lot of students Say that I'm
00:15:02:00	00:15:03:00	glad people who look at it from
00:15:03:00	00:15:06:00	different angles About that.
00:15:06:00	00:15:07:00	It's cool to have a community
00:15:07:00	00:15:07:00	based perspective.
00:15:07:00	00:15:10:00	Have you feed a bottom button?
00:15:10:00	00:15:14:00	OK, it's A little bit scary
00:15:14:00	00:15:15:00	though because for some of
00:15:15:00	00:15:17:00	the literature They're
00:15:17:00	00:15:18:00	referring to is like not
00:15:18:00	00:15:28:00	the best Referred to in some of
00:15:28:00	00:15:28:00	the Reason set in it.
00:15:28:00	00:15:32:00	>> Something like I hadn't seen
00:15:32:00	00:15:32:00	the report and never heard of
00:15:32:00	00:15:35:00	those authors but they Said
00:15:35:00	00:15:36:00	something like we don't have
00:15:36:00	00:15:36:00	good data like it's the only
00:15:36:00	00:15:39:00	data we have in these these IRS
00:15:39:00	00:15:40:00	Records like that use those but
00:15:40:00	00:15:43:00	you shouldn't Know it's only
00:15:43:00	00:15:43:00	for filers.
00:15:43:00	00:15:44:00	>> It doesn't really give you a
00:15:44:00	00:15:46:00	full sense Of like the volume
00:15:46:00	00:15:47:00	and there are other sources
00:15:47:00	00:15:50:00	that Are out there.
00:15:50:00	00:15:51:00	So anyhow I shared that with my
00:15:51:00	00:15:52:00	research team.
00:15:52:00	00:15:53:00	>> I was like this is good.
00:15:53:00	00:15:54:00	I mean I think a lot of people
00:15:54:00	00:15:57:00	are interested in this topic
00:15:57:00	00:16:01:00	And so my insecurity is to be
00:16:01:00	00:16:01:00	Defensive.
00:16:01:00	00:16:04:00	You know, I feel threatened
00:16:04:00	00:16:05:00	Like they're in this space like
00:16:05:00	00:16:06:00	this in my space.
00:16:06:00	00:16:08:00	>> You know, one of those
00:16:08:00	00:16:08:00	Blushing.
00:16:08:00	00:16:09:00	Not quite.
00:16:09:00	00:16:09:00	>> Yeah.
00:16:09:00	00:16:12:00	This Is what you're like.
00:16:12:00	00:16:12:00	Yeah, exactly.
00:16:12:00	00:16:15:00	This is weird like an academic
00:16:15:00	00:16:15:00	Turf stuff.
00:16:15:00	00:16:17:00	>> That sure is just petty and
00:16:17:00	00:16:19:00	so that's an instinct Of mine
00:16:19:00	00:16:20:00	and I know that's not a good
00:16:20:00	00:16:20:00	instinct.
00:16:20:00	00:16:23:00	Like let's Find a way to
00:16:23:00	00:16:23:00	partner with this team because
00:16:23:00	00:16:24:00	they're obviously interested in
00:16:24:00	00:16:26:00	this stuff.
00:16:26:00	00:16:27:00	We might be able to learn from
00:16:27:00	00:16:28:00	each other and help each other.
00:16:28:00	00:16:30:00	So that's kind of the arc Of
00:16:30:00	00:16:30:00	where I went with that.
00:16:30:00	00:16:31:00	Like that's how it should go.
00:16:31:00	00:16:34:00	It's okay To feel kind of
00:16:34:00	00:16:35:00	frustrated but like you went
00:16:35:00	00:16:37:00	through Something.
00:16:37:00	00:16:38:00	>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:38:00	00:16:41:00	I think that's How a lot of
00:16:41:00	00:16:42:00	stuff happens when you see
00:16:42:00	00:16:42:00	studies out there you're like
00:16:42:00	00:16:45:00	oh Okay.
00:16:45:00	00:16:49:00	Yeah at least it's something
00:16:49:00	00:16:49:00	Reaction.
00:16:49:00	00:16:50:00	Yeah like yeah okay let's pull
00:16:50:00	00:16:52:00	back with.
00:16:52:00	00:16:52:00	Yeah.
00:16:52:00	00:16:52:00	Yeah.
00:16:52:00	00:16:56:00	My brother is a Comparative
00:16:56:00	00:16:56:00	politics.
00:16:56:00	00:16:56:00	Oh.
00:16:56:00	00:16:59:00	So we had a lot of
00:16:59:00	00:17:00:00	conversations about some of
00:17:00:00	00:17:03:00	that Back and forth in
00:17:03:00	00:17:03:00	academia.
00:17:03:00	00:17:07:00	>> Yeah It's petty stuff.
00:17:07:00	00:17:07:00	I try.
00:17:07:00	00:17:10:00	I try to be like I'm Above
00:17:10:00	00:17:11:00	the fray with that but then
00:17:11:00	00:17:14:00	yeah it's it's weird Just how
00:17:14:00	00:17:14:00	it happened.
00:17:14:00	00:17:18:00	In that vein I want to make
00:17:18:00	00:17:25:00	sure That there's nothing That
00:17:25:00	00:17:29:00	I mention that is an accurate.
00:17:29:00	00:17:30:00	>> I tried to like because I
00:17:30:00	00:17:31:00	know that you said there is a
00:17:31:00	00:17:34:00	lot that we Can't actually Know
00:17:34:00	00:17:35:00	for sure.
00:17:35:00	00:17:40:00	So I'll use the one point six
00:17:40:00	00:17:42:00	trillion Figure and just
00:17:42:00	00:17:45:00	because that's a lot of places
00:17:45:00	00:17:46:00	I think the only other figure
00:17:46:00	00:17:50:00	that I pulled specifically from
00:17:50:00	00:17:53:00	that Was that the rate of
00:17:53:00	00:17:58:00	increase In debt had over 14
00:17:58:00	00:18:02:00	years Is two hundred and thirty
00:18:02:00	00:18:02:00	percent.
00:18:02:00	00:18:05:00	Do you think.
00:18:05:00	00:18:05:00	Yeah.
00:18:05:00	00:18:06:00	So yeah some of that stuff.
00:18:06:00	00:18:08:00	Let's go The high notes.
00:18:08:00	00:18:10:00	But the hole and I don't know
00:18:10:00	00:18:13:00	if You plan to discuss this in
00:18:13:00	00:18:13:00	this segment but the whole
00:18:13:00	00:18:17:00	impact Of debt stuff and they
00:18:17:00	00:18:19:00	they went on that sort of route
00:18:19:00	00:18:20:00	Of how debt is adversely
00:18:20:00	00:18:23:00	affecting all these like Things
00:18:23:00	00:18:24:00	like home ownership and family
00:18:24:00	00:18:27:00	formation Not like me.
00:18:27:00	00:18:28:00	You don't want to be.
00:18:28:00	00:18:30:00	I wouldn't be so Certain to say
00:18:30:00	00:18:31:00	to put that out there like
00:18:31:00	00:18:31:00	that.
00:18:31:00	00:18:32:00	>> Yeah.
00:18:32:00	00:18:35:00	So what I did knowing based on
00:18:35:00	00:18:38:00	our conversation The day before
00:18:38:00	00:18:41:00	yesterday knowing That your
00:18:41:00	00:18:42:00	main takeaway is we don't know
00:18:42:00	00:18:45:00	cause And impact.
00:18:45:00	00:18:53:00	I framed questions Around
00:18:53:00	00:18:54:00	Basically do we know how this
00:18:54:00	00:18:57:00	impacts Homeownership?
00:18:57:00	00:19:01:00	Yeah starting A business.
00:19:01:00	00:19:04:00	And so then you just speak to
00:19:04:00	00:19:05:00	What you think.
00:19:05:00	00:19:05:00	>> That's helpful.
00:19:05:00	00:19:07:00	Even in the executive order for
00:19:07:00	00:19:08:00	The governor's task force they
00:19:08:00	00:19:09:00	kind of meets all these causal
00:19:09:00	00:19:09:00	impacts.
00:19:09:00	00:19:12:00	Then As I read that I'm like I
00:19:12:00	00:19:15:00	attribute the governor's
00:19:15:00	00:19:16:00	Executive order to seeing one
00:19:16:00	00:19:19:00	in five So you can also are not
00:19:19:00	00:19:23:00	keeping Up with student loan so
00:19:23:00	00:19:24:00	you can also clarify.
00:19:24:00	00:19:27:00	Well, kind We don't know for
00:19:27:00	00:19:27:00	sure.
00:19:27:00	00:19:27:00	Yeah.
00:19:27:00	00:19:28:00	That's good.
00:19:28:00	00:19:31:00	Anything that I have this image
00:19:31:00	00:19:34:00	in my mind It's called Mount
00:19:34:00	00:19:34:00	Stupid.
00:19:34:00	00:19:35:00	Have you ever seen this kind of
00:19:35:00	00:19:35:00	offensive?
00:19:35:00	00:19:38:00	But The more that you know
00:19:38:00	00:19:39:00	about something the more
00:19:39:00	00:19:41:00	willing you are to talk about
00:19:41:00	00:19:41:00	It like you eventually get to
00:19:41:00	00:19:42:00	know a lot of stuff and you
00:19:42:00	00:19:45:00	become less willing to Talk
00:19:45:00	00:19:45:00	about it.
00:19:45:00	00:19:46:00	Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:19:46:00	00:19:47:00	And you kind of get to the peak
00:19:47:00	00:19:48:00	of Mount Stupid.
00:19:48:00	00:19:49:00	Like I feel like that's kind of
00:19:49:00	00:19:50:00	how I think a lot of
00:19:50:00	00:19:52:00	the student debt conversations
00:19:52:00	00:19:52:00	Are like.
00:19:52:00	00:19:53:00	We know a little bit.
00:19:53:00	00:19:54:00	I'm willing to say a lot.
00:19:54:00	00:19:55:00	Yeah but it's like oh I know
00:19:55:00	00:19:56:00	too much I don't like.
00:19:56:00	00:19:57:00	>> I mean journalists are
00:19:57:00	00:19:57:00	great.
00:19:57:00	00:20:00:00	Here's Some time you have to
00:20:00:00	00:20:01:00	kind of do a crash course.
00:20:01:00	00:20:04:00	Absolute.
00:20:04:00	00:20:04:00	Absolutely.
00:20:04:00	00:20:05:00	And that's good.
00:20:05:00	00:20:06:00	Like we've gotta We've got to
00:20:06:00	00:20:06:00	track it.
00:20:06:00	00:20:07:00	>> Yeah.
00:20:07:00	00:20:10:00	Eric, can you hear me?
00:20:10:00	00:20:21:00	How are we looking?
00:20:21:00	00:20:22:00	It looks like I need to fix
00:20:22:00	00:20:25:00	framing a little bit.
00:20:25:00	00:20:26:00	>> Is it me or the camera?
00:20:26:00	00:20:42:00	They can't rack Straight into
00:20:42:00	00:20:51:00	the Binder cricket When I get.
00:20:51:00	00:20:57:00	And just so you Know, Eric is
00:20:57:00	00:20:58:00	gonna let me know in my ear
00:20:58:00	00:21:00:00	when he's started Streams, OK?
00:21:00:00	00:21:08:00	>> And then at that point I can
00:21:08:00	00:21:08:00	Give a count.
00:21:08:00	00:21:10:00	I'll take It live.
00:21:10:00	00:21:15:00	I'll give an introduction to
00:21:15:00	00:21:18:00	some Why we're talking about
00:21:18:00	00:21:18:00	this.
00:21:18:00	00:21:18:00	What we're talking about.
00:21:18:00	00:21:21:00	>> And then You start I'll
00:21:21:00	00:21:22:00	introduce you and then launch
00:21:22:00	00:21:24:00	into question.
00:21:24:00	00:21:25:00	Great.
00:21:25:00	00:21:25:00	Thanks.
00:21:25:00	00:21:27:00	Oh, and At the very end.
00:21:27:00	00:21:34:00	It's gonna feel awkward But
00:21:34:00	00:21:38:00	when I say you know thank you
00:21:38:00	00:21:39:00	For joining us.
00:21:39:00	00:21:41:00	Look into the camera and Count
00:21:41:00	00:21:43:00	to ten just so that he can turn
00:21:43:00	00:21:45:00	the stream is the practice.
00:21:45:00	00:21:46:00	Yes, OK.
00:21:46:00	00:21:53:00	>> Yeah go for it.
00:21:53:00	00:22:07:00	All right.
00:22:07:00	00:22:11:00	Channel the nervousness.
00:22:11:00	00:22:11:00	Your old pro at this?
00:22:11:00	00:22:12:00	>> Yeah.
00:22:12:00	00:22:13:00	Just focus on me, OK?
00:22:13:00	00:22:14:00	OK.
00:22:14:00	00:22:29:00	>> All right.
00:22:29:00	00:22:36:00	Eric in Five four three.
00:22:36:00	00:22:36:00	Welcome to noon Wednesday.
00:22:36:00	00:22:37:00	I'm Marissa BoJack.
00:22:37:00	00:22:40:00	Multimedia journalist With Here
00:22:40:00	00:22:40:00	and now on PBS Wisconsin.
00:22:40:00	00:22:44:00	So recently Governor Tony Ivers
00:22:44:00	00:22:44:00	signed an executive order
00:22:44:00	00:22:47:00	creating a task force On
00:22:47:00	00:22:48:00	student loan debt.
00:22:48:00	00:22:51:00	He cited one point Six trillion
00:22:51:00	00:22:52:00	dollars in student loan debt
00:22:52:00	00:22:55:00	nationally the rate Of this
00:22:55:00	00:22:55:00	debt is increasing rapidly.
00:22:55:00	00:22:59:00	It disproportionately Affects
00:22:59:00	00:22:59:00	vulnerable populations and all
00:22:59:00	00:23:02:00	of this could have a negative
00:23:02:00	00:23:03:00	Impact on Wisconsin's economy.
00:23:03:00	00:23:06:00	So we're joined by Nick Hellman
00:23:06:00	00:23:06:00	, the director of Student
00:23:06:00	00:23:07:00	Success through Applied
00:23:07:00	00:23:07:00	Research Lab.
00:23:07:00	00:23:10:00	He Says it's generally true but
00:23:10:00	00:23:11:00	there is a serious lack of data
00:23:11:00	00:23:14:00	on This issue.
00:23:14:00	00:23:15:00	And so that's making it hard to
00:23:15:00	00:23:17:00	sort out the impacts next
00:23:17:00	00:23:17:00	Actions.
00:23:17:00	00:23:18:00	So Nick, thank you so much for
00:23:18:00	00:23:18:00	joining us.
00:23:18:00	00:23:19:00	Of course.
00:23:19:00	00:23:21:00	>> Thank you for
00:23:21:00	00:23:21:00	The invitation.
00:23:21:00	00:23:22:00	Absolutely.
00:23:22:00	00:23:22:00	So you've been studying this
00:23:22:00	00:23:25:00	for years And you say there's a
00:23:25:00	00:23:25:00	lot that we don't know about
00:23:25:00	00:23:28:00	student debt like how Can that
00:23:28:00	00:23:28:00	be?
00:23:28:00	00:23:32:00	>> Well, not to not to just
00:23:32:00	00:23:33:00	Kind of kick the can on these
00:23:33:00	00:23:33:00	issues to say there's just
00:23:33:00	00:23:35:00	nothing out there.
00:23:35:00	00:23:36:00	I mean I think we're putting
00:23:36:00	00:23:37:00	the puzzle together on sort of
00:23:37:00	00:23:39:00	the magnitude Student loan
00:23:39:00	00:23:40:00	debt, the implications of
00:23:40:00	00:23:43:00	student loan debt And I'd say
00:23:43:00	00:23:44:00	in the past few years maybe
00:23:44:00	00:23:46:00	three or four have we really
00:23:46:00	00:23:47:00	Been able to start to make some
00:23:47:00	00:23:47:00	good inroads to understanding
00:23:47:00	00:23:50:00	the causes Consequences of
00:23:50:00	00:23:50:00	that?
00:23:50:00	00:23:51:00	But we're very limited with
00:23:51:00	00:23:54:00	respect to data access Research
00:23:54:00	00:23:55:00	designs and really making
00:23:55:00	00:23:58:00	definitive statements About
00:23:58:00	00:23:59:00	student loan debt that make it
00:23:59:00	00:24:01:00	kind of hard for Academic
00:24:01:00	00:24:02:00	research to kind of keep pace
00:24:02:00	00:24:05:00	with policy conversations Are
00:24:05:00	00:24:06:00	happening right now.
00:24:06:00	00:24:06:00	>> Where is that data?
00:24:06:00	00:24:09:00	Why Don't we know it?
00:24:09:00	00:24:12:00	>> Well, with student loans
00:24:12:00	00:24:13:00	The federal government is
00:24:13:00	00:24:13:00	the primary provider of student
00:24:13:00	00:24:17:00	loans And because of that
00:24:17:00	00:24:17:00	the federal government also
00:24:17:00	00:24:18:00	keeps track of your payments.
00:24:18:00	00:24:20:00	And So I don't know if you have
00:24:20:00	00:24:21:00	a loan but the federal
00:24:21:00	00:24:21:00	government will keep track and
00:24:21:00	00:24:23:00	a transition Transactional way
00:24:23:00	00:24:24:00	.
00:24:24:00	00:24:24:00	All those transactions to know
00:24:24:00	00:24:27:00	if you're behind on your
00:24:27:00	00:24:28:00	Payments, if you switch
00:24:28:00	00:24:30:00	repayment plans, how long
00:24:30:00	00:24:31:00	You've been in repayment.
00:24:31:00	00:24:32:00	So you know when to stop paying
00:24:32:00	00:24:32:00	your loans.
00:24:32:00	00:24:35:00	And so The federal system is
00:24:35:00	00:24:36:00	really designed for just those
00:24:36:00	00:24:38:00	purposes To keep
00:24:38:00	00:24:39:00	accountability, keep account of
00:24:39:00	00:24:39:00	all those transactions.
00:24:39:00	00:24:42:00	It's not Designed for research
00:24:42:00	00:24:43:00	and planning.
00:24:43:00	00:24:46:00	And so we've Had a federal
00:24:46:00	00:24:46:00	student loan system for you
00:24:46:00	00:24:50:00	know, since the 60s And and now
00:24:50:00	00:24:50:00	today it's like you said one
00:24:50:00	00:24:54:00	point Six trillion dollar
00:24:54:00	00:24:54:00	enterprise.
00:24:54:00	00:24:55:00	And our data infrastructure our
00:24:55:00	00:24:57:00	data Systems just aren't quite
00:24:57:00	00:25:00:00	aligned with that rapid Growth
00:25:00:00	00:25:01:00	that we've seen of the past few
00:25:01:00	00:25:02:00	years.
00:25:02:00	00:25:02:00	So I think that's part of it.
00:25:02:00	00:25:04:00	It's interesting It just seems
00:25:04:00	00:25:08:00	like that it's a Federal agency
00:25:08:00	00:25:08:00	and there's many other federal
00:25:08:00	00:25:12:00	or State agencies where data
00:25:12:00	00:25:15:00	like that is widely Available.
00:25:15:00	00:25:16:00	>> And so it's it seems
00:25:16:00	00:25:16:00	counter-intuitive that some of
00:25:16:00	00:25:19:00	that Isn't around and of that
00:25:19:00	00:25:21:00	one point six trillion you Said
00:25:21:00	00:25:22:00	most of it is federal.
00:25:22:00	00:25:25:00	Is any of it private student?
00:25:25:00	00:25:26:00	>> Yes.
00:25:26:00	00:25:27:00	So credit unions, banks for
00:25:27:00	00:25:30:00	example, Will loan education
00:25:30:00	00:25:33:00	loans to students and families
00:25:33:00	00:25:34:00	And that accounts for about 10
00:25:34:00	00:25:35:00	percent of the total volume of
00:25:35:00	00:25:37:00	student loan.
00:25:37:00	00:25:38:00	>> So it's there but not a big
00:25:38:00	00:25:38:00	proportion.
00:25:38:00	00:25:38:00	>> Sure.
00:25:38:00	00:25:41:00	And in context in that one
00:25:41:00	00:25:43:00	point six trillion total Is
00:25:43:00	00:25:44:00	that a high figure when we're
00:25:44:00	00:25:48:00	talking about debt?
00:25:48:00	00:25:49:00	>> You know, it's hard to say
00:25:49:00	00:25:49:00	what to compare it to.
00:25:49:00	00:25:52:00	It's a high figure compared To
00:25:52:00	00:25:52:00	where student loan debt was a
00:25:52:00	00:25:53:00	decade ago.
00:25:53:00	00:25:55:00	You know, it's increased
00:25:55:00	00:25:56:00	Rapidly two to three times
00:25:56:00	00:25:59:00	since since Gush Past decade or
00:25:59:00	00:25:59:00	so.
00:25:59:00	00:26:03:00	But the tricky part is That we
00:26:03:00	00:26:04:00	don't know how much of that is
00:26:04:00	00:26:07:00	principal Versus how much of
00:26:07:00	00:26:07:00	that is interest.
00:26:07:00	00:26:08:00	And so we see that one point
00:26:08:00	00:26:10:00	six trillion dollar Figure
00:26:10:00	00:26:10:00	floated around.
00:26:10:00	00:26:11:00	A lot of that's interest that's
00:26:11:00	00:26:14:00	just been accumulated Growing
00:26:14:00	00:26:14:00	over time.
00:26:14:00	00:26:15:00	And we don't have a good
00:26:15:00	00:26:18:00	diagnosis of how much of That
00:26:18:00	00:26:21:00	outstanding debt is one Or
00:26:21:00	00:26:22:00	the other principal or
00:26:22:00	00:26:22:00	interest.
00:26:22:00	00:26:22:00	>> That's part of it.
00:26:22:00	00:26:23:00	Sure.
00:26:23:00	00:26:25:00	And so you say it's growing
00:26:25:00	00:26:28:00	Rapidly over the last 14 years
00:26:28:00	00:26:30:00	Or so that rate of increase has
00:26:30:00	00:26:33:00	been two 30 percent which is
00:26:33:00	00:26:34:00	alarming a lot of people.
00:26:34:00	00:26:37:00	Do We know what is causing this
00:26:37:00	00:26:37:00	balloon?
00:26:37:00	00:26:40:00	Well, Compared to other types
00:26:40:00	00:26:41:00	of consumer credit like credit
00:26:41:00	00:26:44:00	cards and auto Loans, for
00:26:44:00	00:26:45:00	example, you know, people like
00:26:45:00	00:26:46:00	to point at these trends where
00:26:46:00	00:26:48:00	those Those lines of consumer
00:26:48:00	00:26:49:00	credit are kind of like tapping
00:26:49:00	00:26:52:00	back down to prerecession
00:26:52:00	00:26:52:00	Levels.
00:26:52:00	00:26:53:00	People aren't borrowing as much
00:26:53:00	00:26:55:00	in those forms of credit But
00:26:55:00	00:26:56:00	student loan debt just keeps
00:26:56:00	00:26:56:00	rising.
00:26:56:00	00:26:59:00	Sort of unlike any other type
00:26:59:00	00:27:00:00	Of debt and some people would
00:27:00:00	00:27:00:00	argue well that's good.
00:27:00:00	00:27:03:00	That means that people Are
00:27:03:00	00:27:03:00	investing in education and
00:27:03:00	00:27:04:00	there is a return on that
00:27:04:00	00:27:06:00	investment both for Private
00:27:06:00	00:27:07:00	individuals but also for
00:27:07:00	00:27:07:00	society.
00:27:07:00	00:27:10:00	And so some people Might say
00:27:10:00	00:27:11:00	what's the problem with growing
00:27:11:00	00:27:11:00	student loan debt?
00:27:11:00	00:27:12:00	I mean people are going to
00:27:12:00	00:27:14:00	college.
00:27:14:00	00:27:15:00	That's probably a good thing.
00:27:15:00	00:27:16:00	Other people would say well,
00:27:16:00	00:27:16:00	not so fast.
00:27:16:00	00:27:19:00	You know, it depends on what
00:27:19:00	00:27:20:00	type of college you go to.
00:27:20:00	00:27:20:00	It depends on whether you've
00:27:20:00	00:27:22:00	finished college And so on.
00:27:22:00	00:27:23:00	There's a lot of nuance to
00:27:23:00	00:27:25:00	student loan debt where Student
00:27:25:00	00:27:26:00	debt might be a very good thing
00:27:26:00	00:27:27:00	for some people but it might be
00:27:27:00	00:27:30:00	very, very troubling for
00:27:30:00	00:27:30:00	others.
00:27:30:00	00:27:31:00	And so that's what we're trying
00:27:31:00	00:27:33:00	to understand with this growth
00:27:33:00	00:27:33:00	.
00:27:33:00	00:27:34:00	Why is it different from other
00:27:34:00	00:27:36:00	types of consumer credit And
00:27:36:00	00:27:37:00	what does it mean for people or
00:27:37:00	00:27:38:00	for the average borrower?
00:27:38:00	00:27:41:00	And the More I learn about
00:27:41:00	00:27:42:00	this, the less I am convinced
00:27:42:00	00:27:44:00	there is An average borrower.
00:27:44:00	00:27:46:00	>> And so when we're talking
00:27:46:00	00:27:51:00	About Taking on debt, it can be
00:27:51:00	00:27:53:00	a good thing to have debt.
00:27:53:00	00:27:57:00	People are in debt all the time
00:27:57:00	00:27:58:00	And it can help your credit
00:27:58:00	00:27:58:00	score.
00:27:58:00	00:28:01:00	All of these things.
00:28:01:00	00:28:02:00	But it's a different thing when
00:28:02:00	00:28:03:00	people can't make their
00:28:03:00	00:28:05:00	payments And this executive
00:28:05:00	00:28:06:00	order says that one in five
00:28:06:00	00:28:09:00	students In Wisconsin are
00:28:09:00	00:28:09:00	behind in their payments.
00:28:09:00	00:28:12:00	So how do Defaults on payments
00:28:12:00	00:28:12:00	factor into this?
00:28:12:00	00:28:16:00	Is it creating A ticking time
00:28:16:00	00:28:16:00	bomb?
00:28:16:00	00:28:17:00	>> Well, student loan default
00:28:17:00	00:28:20:00	is a is A big problem with our
00:28:20:00	00:28:20:00	student lending system in
00:28:20:00	00:28:23:00	general and a Student loan
00:28:23:00	00:28:23:00	default.
00:28:23:00	00:28:24:00	It's basically if you haven't
00:28:24:00	00:28:27:00	made A payment in a year is
00:28:27:00	00:28:28:00	pretty much how this is
00:28:28:00	00:28:28:00	measured.
00:28:28:00	00:28:31:00	You'll go Into default.
00:28:31:00	00:28:32:00	And that'll show up on your
00:28:32:00	00:28:32:00	credit scores.
00:28:32:00	00:28:35:00	It'll spit you apostle We could
00:28:35:00	00:28:35:00	have some public benefits
00:28:35:00	00:28:36:00	withheld from you if you're not
00:28:36:00	00:28:38:00	making progress On your
00:28:38:00	00:28:38:00	payments.
00:28:38:00	00:28:39:00	And unlike those credit cards
00:28:39:00	00:28:42:00	are Like an auto loan or a home
00:28:42:00	00:28:42:00	loan.
00:28:42:00	00:28:43:00	There's not collateral with a
00:28:43:00	00:28:45:00	student Loan.
00:28:45:00	00:28:46:00	They're not going to take your
00:28:46:00	00:28:47:00	education away from you.
00:28:47:00	00:28:49:00	And so that Makes this a very
00:28:49:00	00:28:52:00	unconventional type of credit
00:28:52:00	00:28:53:00	For a lot of young borrowers
00:28:53:00	00:28:54:00	sometimes their first time
00:28:54:00	00:28:57:00	engaging With the lending
00:28:57:00	00:28:58:00	system as 18 year olds are
00:28:58:00	00:29:01:00	entering Into arrangements
00:29:01:00	00:29:01:00	where where there's no clatter,
00:29:01:00	00:29:03:00	it's not collateralized debt
00:29:03:00	00:29:04:00	And it's just a really strange
00:29:04:00	00:29:05:00	system to be able to navigate.
00:29:05:00	00:29:08:00	And So I think because of these
00:29:08:00	00:29:11:00	things let's do a loan default
00:29:11:00	00:29:12:00	Is especially challenging in in
00:29:12:00	00:29:15:00	higher Education because there
00:29:15:00	00:29:16:00	is no cloud is not something
00:29:16:00	00:29:17:00	you could take away from us.
00:29:17:00	00:29:19:00	They can't discharge Generally
00:29:19:00	00:29:19:00	in bankruptcy.
00:29:19:00	00:29:20:00	You can have your public
00:29:20:00	00:29:25:00	benefits taking Possibly Does
00:29:25:00	00:29:29:00	all of this the rise In student
00:29:29:00	00:29:30:00	debt and potential default.
00:29:30:00	00:29:33:00	>> Is that creating any sort of
00:29:33:00	00:29:36:00	worry that We saw a weakening
00:29:36:00	00:29:40:00	of the economy in 2008 With
00:29:40:00	00:29:40:00	subprime mortgages?
00:29:40:00	00:29:41:00	Is that.
00:29:41:00	00:29:44:00	Is this on that level At all or
00:29:44:00	00:29:45:00	are we really far away from
00:29:45:00	00:29:45:00	there?
00:29:45:00	00:29:47:00	>> I don't know.
00:29:47:00	00:29:48:00	I'm not enough of an expert in
00:29:48:00	00:29:51:00	the subprime mortgage Area to
00:29:51:00	00:29:52:00	know how to compare this.
00:29:52:00	00:29:55:00	>> But I would say the student
00:29:55:00	00:29:55:00	loan default is it is a
00:29:55:00	00:29:58:00	significant problem for
00:29:58:00	00:29:58:00	Individuals who have those
00:29:58:00	00:30:02:00	credit blemishes now following
00:30:02:00	00:30:03:00	Them for for potentially a
00:30:03:00	00:30:03:00	lifetime because they can't
00:30:03:00	00:30:04:00	discharge these debts in
00:30:04:00	00:30:06:00	bankruptcy Generally but also
00:30:06:00	00:30:10:00	for communities you see that
00:30:10:00	00:30:10:00	the Student loan defaults tend
00:30:10:00	00:30:11:00	to be concentrated in
00:30:11:00	00:30:14:00	communities That are already
00:30:14:00	00:30:15:00	economically depressed
00:30:15:00	00:30:19:00	communities where A large
00:30:19:00	00:30:20:00	portion of of the population
00:30:20:00	00:30:21:00	are people of color And you see
00:30:21:00	00:30:22:00	some real inequalities that are
00:30:22:00	00:30:26:00	really baked Into our fabric of
00:30:26:00	00:30:29:00	society That student loan debt
00:30:29:00	00:30:29:00	just makes even more unequal.
00:30:29:00	00:30:33:00	>> And So people say my might
00:30:33:00	00:30:34:00	say no we don't the student
00:30:34:00	00:30:35:00	debt probably Inequality
00:30:35:00	00:30:36:00	problem and student debt is
00:30:36:00	00:30:36:00	just a symptom of it.
00:30:36:00	00:30:39:00	And I think that There's
00:30:39:00	00:30:40:00	something to be said about
00:30:40:00	00:30:40:00	that.
00:30:40:00	00:30:43:00	>> And Kind of targeting that
00:30:43:00	00:30:46:00	specifically Senator Cory
00:30:46:00	00:30:47:00	Booker requested specific
00:30:47:00	00:30:50:00	information From the Federal
00:30:50:00	00:30:51:00	Reserve about majority minority
00:30:51:00	00:30:54:00	neighborhoods And Milwaukee was
00:30:54:00	00:30:58:00	one of those cities that came
00:30:58:00	00:31:01:00	Up and showed some of these
00:31:01:00	00:31:01:00	Alarming rates.
00:31:01:00	00:31:05:00	What can we learn from what
00:31:05:00	00:31:06:00	Those results showed?
00:31:06:00	00:31:06:00	I think there are three
00:31:06:00	00:31:09:00	takeaways Brief I'll try to be
00:31:09:00	00:31:09:00	brief with them.
00:31:09:00	00:31:12:00	I think one is to The data
00:31:12:00	00:31:13:00	point that the data that
00:31:13:00	00:31:16:00	Senator Booker requested had To
00:31:16:00	00:31:17:00	come through Equifax.
00:31:17:00	00:31:17:00	>> Consumer Credit Reports.
00:31:17:00	00:31:20:00	So Our senators and our public
00:31:20:00	00:31:21:00	officials are getting records
00:31:21:00	00:31:24:00	from Equifax and from credit
00:31:24:00	00:31:27:00	card companies to be able to
00:31:27:00	00:31:28:00	Answer these questions about
00:31:28:00	00:31:28:00	student loan debt which should
00:31:28:00	00:31:29:00	be a red flag on the data
00:31:29:00	00:31:31:00	quality Data infrastructure.
00:31:31:00	00:31:32:00	We started this conversation.
00:31:32:00	00:31:33:00	So that's one piece of
00:31:33:00	00:31:34:00	the puzzle.
00:31:34:00	00:31:35:00	The second piece of the puzzle
00:31:35:00	00:31:38:00	is that I think it really
00:31:38:00	00:31:39:00	Demonstrates that community
00:31:39:00	00:31:42:00	based collective Efforts are
00:31:42:00	00:31:42:00	really going to be priorities
00:31:42:00	00:31:46:00	for trying to resolve Some of
00:31:46:00	00:31:46:00	the debt problems that we have
00:31:46:00	00:31:47:00	right now in our in our country
00:31:47:00	00:31:50:00	and it's Not just for student
00:31:50:00	00:31:50:00	lending and student loan debt
00:31:50:00	00:31:53:00	but you think about Housing and
00:31:53:00	00:31:56:00	other access to public Things
00:31:56:00	00:31:57:00	that we believe are in
00:31:57:00	00:31:58:00	the public interest that are
00:31:58:00	00:32:01:00	just Incredibly unequal.
00:32:01:00	00:32:02:00	And I think that's the second
00:32:02:00	00:32:04:00	bucket.
00:32:04:00	00:32:05:00	The third is that we've got to
00:32:05:00	00:32:05:00	also think about
00:32:05:00	00:32:08:00	the institutions That are
00:32:08:00	00:32:08:00	producing the debt the college
00:32:08:00	00:32:12:00	students, judges Randomly get a
00:32:12:00	00:32:12:00	debt.
00:32:12:00	00:32:13:00	It's because their institution
00:32:13:00	00:32:15:00	that they're enrolling And
00:32:15:00	00:32:16:00	isn't providing them enough
00:32:16:00	00:32:18:00	financial aid possibly it's
00:32:18:00	00:32:19:00	Because maybe they're
00:32:19:00	00:32:20:00	the housing expenses in their
00:32:20:00	00:32:23:00	community or just Too expensive
00:32:23:00	00:32:24:00	and they need loans to be able
00:32:24:00	00:32:24:00	to pay for housing.
00:32:24:00	00:32:27:00	It could be a number Of things.
00:32:27:00	00:32:28:00	And so the institutions I think
00:32:28:00	00:32:30:00	are really important And trying
00:32:30:00	00:32:31:00	to be part of the solution to
00:32:31:00	00:32:31:00	these problems and they're
00:32:31:00	00:32:34:00	highly unequal Long lines of
00:32:34:00	00:32:34:00	geography.
00:32:34:00	00:32:38:00	>> And so if we do know To some
00:32:38:00	00:32:39:00	degree that this issue is
00:32:39:00	00:32:41:00	impacting Low income
00:32:41:00	00:32:44:00	communities of color vulnerable
00:32:44:00	00:32:45:00	Populations potentially more
00:32:45:00	00:32:49:00	than than the Broader public,
00:32:49:00	00:32:52:00	do we know at all How that
00:32:52:00	00:32:53:00	might be impacting people's
00:32:53:00	00:32:56:00	decisions to go Into higher
00:32:56:00	00:32:57:00	education or what decisions
00:32:57:00	00:32:59:00	they're making When they leave
00:32:59:00	00:33:00:00	higher education without a
00:33:00:00	00:33:03:00	degree Or if they leave higher
00:33:03:00	00:33:04:00	education with a degree but
00:33:04:00	00:33:06:00	with That's the big question
00:33:06:00	00:33:07:00	and that's the one where I
00:33:07:00	00:33:10:00	think if you Ask me that
00:33:10:00	00:33:11:00	question a few years ago I had
00:33:11:00	00:33:14:00	been more willing to have An
00:33:14:00	00:33:14:00	opinion on it.
00:33:14:00	00:33:15:00	But the more I've learned about
00:33:15:00	00:33:16:00	this and the more that I think
00:33:16:00	00:33:17:00	about The advances in social
00:33:17:00	00:33:18:00	sciences that we're really
00:33:18:00	00:33:21:00	trying to Detect causality.
00:33:21:00	00:33:25:00	Does this cause that The more I
00:33:25:00	00:33:26:00	learn about these social
00:33:26:00	00:33:28:00	science standards and the more
00:33:28:00	00:33:29:00	I apply those to the research
00:33:29:00	00:33:29:00	that's out there, the more
00:33:29:00	00:33:32:00	dissatisfied I That we have a
00:33:32:00	00:33:33:00	really good answer.
00:33:33:00	00:33:35:00	I don't think at least
00:33:35:00	00:33:36:00	The current state of research
00:33:36:00	00:33:36:00	that I'm familiar with has been
00:33:36:00	00:33:39:00	able to Answer those questions
00:33:39:00	00:33:40:00	convincingly about cause and
00:33:40:00	00:33:43:00	effect when it comes To student
00:33:43:00	00:33:43:00	loan debt.
00:33:43:00	00:33:44:00	I mean we don't randomly
00:33:44:00	00:33:47:00	assigned people a student loan
00:33:47:00	00:33:48:00	But that would be the best way
00:33:48:00	00:33:48:00	to find out a causal effect is
00:33:48:00	00:33:50:00	if we randomly Assign things we
00:33:50:00	00:33:51:00	don't do that.
00:33:51:00	00:33:52:00	So we have to kind of work
00:33:52:00	00:33:54:00	around and find sort Of other
00:33:54:00	00:33:55:00	ways to get at causality.
00:33:55:00	00:33:58:00	And I'd say most Studies don't
00:33:58:00	00:33:58:00	do that.
00:33:58:00	00:34:00:00	And so it's hard if I'm looking
00:34:00:00	00:34:02:00	at the Research evidence it's
00:34:02:00	00:34:02:00	hard to use that evidence to
00:34:02:00	00:34:05:00	say convincingly that debt Is
00:34:05:00	00:34:06:00	causing people to not enroll or
00:34:06:00	00:34:07:00	it's causing people to delay
00:34:07:00	00:34:09:00	family Formation, causing
00:34:09:00	00:34:10:00	people to not start a business
00:34:10:00	00:34:12:00	or not buy a home.
00:34:12:00	00:34:13:00	I think when there's smoke,
00:34:13:00	00:34:13:00	there's fire.
00:34:13:00	00:34:14:00	All those things could be true.
00:34:14:00	00:34:16:00	But the research Evidence is
00:34:16:00	00:34:17:00	not convincingly it's not
00:34:17:00	00:34:21:00	convincing Enough at this point
00:34:21:00	00:34:21:00	to have a consensus within
00:34:21:00	00:34:22:00	the academic community.
00:34:22:00	00:34:24:00	There Is cause and effect.
00:34:24:00	00:34:25:00	>> Can we say that an increase
00:34:25:00	00:34:28:00	in Debt could be an issue for
00:34:28:00	00:34:31:00	the economy because that Is one
00:34:31:00	00:34:31:00	of the points that this
00:34:31:00	00:34:32:00	executive order is trying to
00:34:32:00	00:34:34:00	make?
00:34:34:00	00:34:35:00	It could be I think pinpointing
00:34:35:00	00:34:38:00	it would probably be the Best
00:34:38:00	00:34:39:00	way forward.
00:34:39:00	00:34:40:00	>> So here's just an example.
00:34:40:00	00:34:42:00	Think about the doctors and
00:34:42:00	00:34:43:00	lawyers who take out student
00:34:43:00	00:34:46:00	loans to Be able to pay for
00:34:46:00	00:34:47:00	their residency or pay for
00:34:47:00	00:34:49:00	their post baccalaureate
00:34:49:00	00:34:49:00	Training.
00:34:49:00	00:34:50:00	About 40 percent of all student
00:34:50:00	00:34:53:00	loan debt today Is dispersed
00:34:53:00	00:34:53:00	for graduate school students.
00:34:53:00	00:34:57:00	So people who Already have a
00:34:57:00	00:34:57:00	bachelor's degree in pursuing
00:34:57:00	00:34:58:00	post baccalaureate education
00:34:58:00	00:35:01:00	and There certainly can still
00:35:01:00	00:35:01:00	be problems here.
00:35:01:00	00:35:02:00	>> I'm not trying to dismiss
00:35:02:00	00:35:02:00	them.
00:35:02:00	00:35:05:00	But I think that there is good
00:35:05:00	00:35:08:00	reason To believe that
00:35:08:00	00:35:08:00	the people who are borrowing in
00:35:08:00	00:35:10:00	those programs are probably
00:35:10:00	00:35:11:00	Going to be able to weather
00:35:11:00	00:35:12:00	the changes in the economy
00:35:12:00	00:35:15:00	better Than somebody on
00:35:15:00	00:35:15:00	the other end of
00:35:15:00	00:35:16:00	the distribution who may be
00:35:16:00	00:35:18:00	enrolled In just a semester or
00:35:18:00	00:35:19:00	two took out of just a couple
00:35:19:00	00:35:22:00	thousand dollars in loans,
00:35:22:00	00:35:22:00	maybe didn't even know they had
00:35:22:00	00:35:23:00	a loan because it's actually
00:35:23:00	00:35:24:00	really complex to really
00:35:24:00	00:35:26:00	navigate This and oftentimes
00:35:26:00	00:35:27:00	that borrowers the ones
00:35:27:00	00:35:30:00	struggling The most.
00:35:30:00	00:35:31:00	So the knee  reaction is a lot
00:35:31:00	00:35:34:00	of debt is a big problem For
00:35:34:00	00:35:34:00	the economy.
00:35:34:00	00:35:35:00	Well, let's pinpoint that
00:35:35:00	00:35:37:00	problem and I think there could
00:35:37:00	00:35:38:00	Some truth to it but we might
00:35:38:00	00:35:38:00	be surprised that just
00:35:38:00	00:35:41:00	the opposite is also True.
00:35:41:00	00:35:41:00	Sure.
00:35:41:00	00:35:45:00	>> So as this task Force is
00:35:45:00	00:35:46:00	starting to get to work, what
00:35:46:00	00:35:48:00	do you think is Kind of
00:35:48:00	00:35:49:00	the most important thing to
00:35:49:00	00:35:49:00	focus on?
00:35:49:00	00:35:49:00	>> Oh boy.
00:35:49:00	00:35:52:00	Well, pinpointing the Problem I
00:35:52:00	00:35:53:00	think is a good next step.
00:35:53:00	00:35:55:00	I think that The in the state's
00:35:55:00	00:35:56:00	interest in student loan debt I
00:35:56:00	00:35:59:00	think is is Warranted.
00:35:59:00	00:36:00:00	I think the next step is now to
00:36:00:00	00:36:03:00	say now A, B and C are the top
00:36:03:00	00:36:04:00	priorities when it comes to
00:36:04:00	00:36:06:00	student loan debt.
00:36:06:00	00:36:07:00	I don't think that the state in
00:36:07:00	00:36:09:00	most states actually Are really
00:36:09:00	00:36:10:00	in a position to answer what A,
00:36:10:00	00:36:11:00	B and C are because of the data
00:36:11:00	00:36:13:00	infrastructure.
00:36:13:00	00:36:14:00	So I think there's gonna be a
00:36:14:00	00:36:15:00	weird kind of give and take
00:36:15:00	00:36:17:00	here.
00:36:17:00	00:36:18:00	We've got to do some more
00:36:18:00	00:36:19:00	research and do some more data
00:36:19:00	00:36:21:00	analysis and really get
00:36:21:00	00:36:21:00	Comprehensive measure of
00:36:21:00	00:36:22:00	the extent of the problem and
00:36:22:00	00:36:25:00	then Start to answer and
00:36:25:00	00:36:26:00	identify ways to solve it.
00:36:26:00	00:36:28:00	So I think you're going to have
00:36:28:00	00:36:29:00	A little bit of a push and pull
00:36:29:00	00:36:29:00	there.
00:36:29:00	00:36:30:00	So of course I'm an academic
00:36:30:00	00:36:32:00	I'm a researcher.
00:36:32:00	00:36:33:00	We want more data.
00:36:33:00	00:36:33:00	We want better data.
00:36:33:00	00:36:34:00	But I really do believe that in
00:36:34:00	00:36:36:00	this particular Case that's a
00:36:36:00	00:36:36:00	fundamental first step in
00:36:36:00	00:36:36:00	the process.
00:36:36:00	00:36:37:00	>> All right.
00:36:37:00	00:36:39:00	When We come in.
00:36:39:00	00:36:40:00	Thank you very much.
00:36:40:00	00:36:41:00	Of course.
00:36:41:00	00:36:41:00	Thank you.
00:36:41:00	00:36:42:00	I appreciate it.
00:36:42:00	00:36:43:00	More from Here on now.
00:36:43:00	00:36:44:00	And PBS Wisconsin you can visit
00:36:44:00	00:36:47:00	PBS Wisconsin Dot org.
00:36:47:00	00:36:48:00	There's a nice little tab at
00:36:48:00	00:36:50:00	the top where you can click on
00:36:50:00	00:36:51:00	News and thank you so much for