Linda Thomas Greenfield,
welcome back to Wisconsin.

>> Thank you.

I'm really happy to be back.

and the weather is beautiful.

So I say welcome
back, of course,

because you did, some
decades ago, live here

and you were a grad student
in 1975 at UW-Madison.

And since then, you've worked
in a number of federal

government positions overseas
in Switzerland, Pakistan,

Nigeria, to name a few.

Before eventually, you became
the United States Ambassador

to United Nations during
the Joe Biden presidency.

Thinking back to your time
here, Is there something about

Wisconsin that helped
you or motivated you to

work in foreign affairs and
on the international stage?

You know, I think when
I look back, it was the

international community here.

There were people from every
country around the world.

And you started to get
curious about what was

happening in countries.

I was studying Africa, but I
also was curious about other

places and meeting people
from other places.

I had a friend from Thailand
and I never even thought

of going to Thailand.

There were students
here from China.

I had a colleague who
studied Chinese politics.

So a lot of that experience and
that exposure, I think helped

move me in the
direction of diplomacy.

You're here in Wisconsin
to give a talk

through UW's LaFaulet
School of Public Affairs

on quote the art of negotiation.

What is the art of negotiation
and why is it an art?

You know, I think
it's an art and

I love the fact that they
refer to it as an art

because people do it
in different ways.

Artists don't all paint
the same picture.

They don't all focus
on the same subject.

And diplomacy is an art
because it's how an individual

carries out that
process of negotiation.

My art, my process, I
call gumbo diplomacy.

And what that means
is that I like

to get to know the people
I'm negotiating with.

I like to get to know
them up close and

personal over a bowl of
gumbo or whatever cheese

curds since we're in Madison.

But really taking a little
bit of time at the beginning

of any discussion to know
who I'm talking to and where

they come from and what's
important to them.

And so the art of diplomacy,
the art of negotiations

can be different for
different people and

in different places.

How should people approach
a situation where they

think negotiation is needed?

I think they need
to be open-minded.

They need to know what they
want to achieve before

they go into negotiations.

And they need to have a
sense of what the other

side wants as well.

And you need to know what
your outer limits are.

So you may go in with
a hard position,

but that position
might be movable.

It might be a little
bit flexible.

And you need to know that
before you go into the room,

that you have some flexibility,
and that you're looking

for some flexibility.

So you're not going to
get everything you want,

and the person you're
negotiating with

won't get everything they want.

you're going to come out
somewhere in the middle.

Now my goal is not to
get to the middle.

My goal is to stay as close
to my position as possible,

but I know I have to move.

And I'm sure the other side
is trying to stay as close

to their position as possible.

But if you come out of the
room with a settlement,

then you're in a good place.

Negotiation is a
very serious word,

But I bet people negotiate
more in everyday

life than they think.

Where might people find that
they're negotiating day to day?

You negotiate with
your children.

My-- I remember many situations
with my adult children

when they were younger,
negotiating how late

they would stay out,
or what friends they

would have over.

And now I'm negotiating with
a five and six year old.

I have three grandchildren,
three, five and six.

And to negotiate with a
five year old is tough.

- Do you win, Ever?

- Sometimes.

- Okay.

- Sometimes, but they
win most of the time.

That said, how do
you gauge your rate

or accomplish a
successful negotiation?

What does that look like?

- I think when you walk
away from the negotiation,

both sides are happy.

So as I said, you're not gonna
get everything you want,

but you're gonna get some
of the things you want.

And if you walk out the door
knowing you have accomplished

some of the things you
want, then you're happy,

and you want the other
side to be happy as well.

because if they are not happy,
then they may not adhere to

the terms of the negotiation.

And you start all over
again from scratch.

And I've seen that happen.

We've seen countries at war,
for example, Democratic

Republic of Congo.

I remember negotiating when
I was Assistant Secretary,

the relationship
between Rwanda and DRC

as it related to M23,
which is a group that

has been fighting inside of DRC.

I thought we resolved
that in 2013.

And I said that to the
president of Rwanda

when I saw him just a
couple of years ago.

It wasn't resolved because
when we walked out of the

door, one side was not happy
with what they came out with.

So, as negotiation, a lot
of is based on trust that

people will do what they say
they're going to do when they

leave the negotiating table.

It's based on trust, it's
based on commitment, and

it's based on common goals.

So if you're negotiating
about warranties, the

common goal should be peace.

And if both sides walk
into the room with the

goal of achieving peace,
then once peace is achieved,

both sides should be happy.

But that is not always the case.

You're from Louisiana,
state known for its gumbo.

Professionally, you're
known for diplomacy.

So you've created this thing
called gumbo diplomacy.

Gumbo can have many
different ingredients.

What does your gumbo
diplomacy include?

You know, it includes having
everybody participate

in the preparation.

So you're sitting around a
big kitchen table or counter

and you're chopping onions
and celery and green pepper,

the holy trinity of gumbo,
and you're talking.

And you're not really focused
on what you're talking about.

You're trying to ensure that you
don't cut your fingertips off.

And sometimes you get to a place
where you're in agreement.

Now, I don't have, you
know, heads of state

coming to my house to chop
onions and make gumbo,

but I do have them come to the
house to sit down and eat gumbo.

And it's a great
conversation piece.

It lays out a very comfortable
environment to start with.

And then you get to
the tough stuff.

And the tough stuff is
easier if you've enjoyed

Wollogombo on the way there.

- What is the best hot sauce?

So my family in Louisiana
will disagree with me.

I like Tabasco.

Tabasco, you can find
anywhere in the world.

If I open my purse up right
now, I have a little bottle

of Tabasco in my purse.

But sometimes you'll go and
they'll bring something else

and try to convince you that
it's as good as Tabasco.

People in Louisiana also
like Louisiana hot sauce

or crystal or Texas Pete.

I am a strict Tabasco person.

I'm a Texas Pete guy so I
guess this interview is over.

Let me give you a
bottle of Tabasco and

you'll change your mind.

Speaking of food,
Wisconsin farmers, like

those in neighboring
Midwestern states, play

a pivotal role in global food
assistance programs dating back

to food for peace in the 1950s.

More recently, Wisconsin farmers
have sold their agricultural

products to programs that are
part of the US Agency for

International Development.

The Trump administration
is in the middle

of trying to dismantle
the USAID program.

- Actual.

- Yeah, true they have.

It's still caught
up in the courts

a bit, but two questions here.

How will that affect Wisconsin
farmers and also how will

dismantling the USAID program
heard American diplomacy

in the rest of the world.

- So I was here in Wisconsin
for the State Fair last year

and had an opportunity
to engage with farmers

and to learn what a
significant role,

I always knew they played a role
but I didn't really realize

how significant they
are to our foreign food

assistance programs.

And they really are an important
part of those programs.

The other side is that those
programs provide food security

for people all over the world.

And so this current policy
of dismantling USAID and

and defunding the programs
at USAID fund around

the world will impact
farmers in Wisconsin and

all over the United States
who are providing their

products for USAID.

And it's going to have a
horrible impact on the people

who depend on this food aid.

People who might now go to bed
hungry because they're not

getting the food assistance
that they relied on from USAID.

So I'm really extraordinarily
sad about what I see happening.

I'm sad for American farmers,
for Wisconsin farmers,

and I'm sad for the
recipients of their products.

International conflicts like the
war between Russia and Ukraine,

and the war between Israel
and Hamas and Gaza,

they can feel very, very
far away from Wisconsin.

Why should people
here care about these

international conflicts
that are literally

thousands of miles away
from their everyday lives.

>> You know, that is a
very important question.

And I used to answer that
question with a simple response.

It's because Americans care.

We care about people.

We care about suffering
around the world.

And I still believe
that Americans care

about people who are
suffering around the world.

But in a broader context, wars
around the world do impact us.

The impact are economies.

They impact the people.

We have people from
all over the world

who are hyphenated Americans,
who are Palestinian Americans,

Israeli Americans,
Ukrainian Americans,

huge population in
the United States.

And those people have -- they
really have a vested interest

in seeing that these wars
end and that families are

no longer suffering.

And I think that is
important to Americans.

It's important to many
of our policymakers.

It's important to people around
the world who see America

as being a leader, as being
the country that they

depend on to find solutions.

The war in Gaza can be
very confusing to folks.

What should people understand
about that war particularly?

Well, first and foremost, the
war was started by Hamas.

When Hamas attacked
Israel, not over seventh,

and took over 200 hostages
and killed over 1,200 people.

But that war has expanded,
and it has impacted

tens of thousands
of people in Gaza.

More than 50,000 people are
estimated to have been killed.

more than 2 million
from their homes.

So the impact of that war
has had a devastating impact

on people across the globe.

And there are strong views on
what our policy should be.

And there are lots of debate
on what we should be doing,

or what we should not be doing,
but ultimately we need to work

to find a diplomatic solution
to what is an extraordinarily

difficult problem.

What I learned over the course
of the past four years, and

I probably knew even
before, diplomacy is hard.

And it's not a magic one
that you bring into the room

and you find a solution.

You have to negotiate and you
have to negotiate and you

have to use diplomatic means.

And eventually you come to a
solution and it's not a solution

that will satisfy everyone
and it's not a solution

that comes quick enough
for most people.

What role should the United
States play in wars like

those in between Russia
and Ukraine or in Gaza?

Well, I mean just look
at Russia in Ukraine.

Russia attacked
this neighbor.

It broke every
We rule in the

international book.

It broke the UN Charter by
invading Ukraine and attacking

the people of Ukraine and taking

children in Ukraine.

So we made a decision during
the Biden administration

that we would support
Ukraine and we would

encourage others to
support Ukraine in this

really unprovoked war
that Russia started.

And I think that is a position
that most people in the

world still continue to have.

The United States and Wisconsin
and universities and industries

here in the state are home to
many international residents.

some of them are looking to
become permanent residents

of the United States,
but deportations

are now happening.

How do these deportations
look and feel to those

outside of America?

I think they're afraid.

They're afraid, and
they're also surprised,

because they don't expect to
see these kinds of deportations

happen in the United States.

We've always had a deportation
program for illegal immigrants.

It's not a new program, but
how it is being implemented

now has put the fear of God
and so many people, students

around the country.

I just heard on the news since
I arrived that a student at

the University of Minnesota
So, the Minnesota has been

arrested and no one knows
where the student is.

We know that the student
in Georgetown had assembly

issues, student at Tuft.

And so I think students
are afraid, particularly

foreign students.

Their families are
afraid for them.

and they're all kind of
walking on itchells now.

Here in Wisconsin, like
elsewhere, political division,

a number of issues has
really fractured our state.

There are things like
abortion or school choice

in the voucher system,
or vaccines that seem to

have really only two sides,
either four or against.

Where does negotiation fit
into these kind of two-sided

debates or discussions?

You know, when I first
started in politics, it

was so bipartisan.

So you would
always find a path

to a solution with Republicans
and Democrats working together

to find a solution.

And I think
That's what the

American people want.

They want their politicians
to find solutions.

They don't want the divisions
that they're seeing.

And I know that many of
them will not always

get what they expect.

But what they don't expect
is to see gridlock.

They don't expect to
see their politicians

decisions disrespecting each
other, screaming profanity at

each other, screaming
insults at each other.

This is a new kind of politics
in America that I think the

American people broadly
don't want to see.

We all have our different
views about immigration,

about abortions, about
gender and the LGBT,

but to fight about those issues
in the halls of our Congress,

and the halls of our
state legislatures,

really don't provide solutions
for ordinary citizens

who want to see our
government work.

They want to see the
government work for them.

And what they're seeing now
is that the government is not

working for them.

And what I would say to them is
they have to raise their voices

to make sure that the
politicians that they voted for

represent their views,
but also represent

the interest of the country.

Is there room for
negotiation in these kind

of two-sided debates,
whether it's

abortion or vaccines,
where it seems to

either one side, four
or one side against,

is there a negotiation?

- There has to be
room for negotiation.

Otherwise, we will stay
in this gridlock forever.

And again, when you negotiate,
you're not gonna get

everything you want.

But you will get some
of the things you want.

And what we most want is to
see our government function.

Here in Wisconsin, like
everywhere, that there's

internet access, citizens are
having to sift through a lot of

misinformation and
disinformation to get to

the truth of the matter.

And we find it in politics
and discussion about

society's problems.

It seems that no matter
where you turn, there's some

misleading individuals who
are looking for attention.

How does the ever-growing
impact of misinformation

and disinformation affect
the ability to navigate

and negotiate on issues
that need solutions?

You know, people start
to fight for things

that may not be factual.

And so we have to find a way
to ensure that people get the

actual facts, that they
know what their hearing is

really based on truth.

And sometimes I think about
the good old days of Walter

Concrite, where we're all
in in front of our TVs at 7

o'clock at night on CBS,
listening to contact,

give us the facts, and
give us the truth.

And now we see
politicians and reporters

really fight each other
with disinformation.

And it's not serving
the American people.

It's not serving
the American voter.

People don't know what
they're voting for.

They don't know where
the truth lies.

And I don't know what
the solution is to that.

Because we're in a world now
where it's instant information.

And someone puts out
something on Twitter.

And suddenly it's the truth.

When maybe it's not the truth.

You know, I looked on the
news and I heard it was

snowing today in Wisconsin.

And I'm here today and
the sun is bright.

And it's beautiful.

You have to find a way
to get to the truth.

And I think so many people
now don't know how to do that

because we're being fed
information from so

many different sources, whether
it's X or it's Instagram

or just, you know, podcasts.

You're just getting news from
too many different sources.

Wisconsin is a very
politically purple state.

It's divided in terms of power.

Our governor is a Democrat.

The state legislature is
controlled by Republicans.

We have one Democratic U.S.

Senator, one Republican
one, and we flip and

flop between presidents
when we're voting

every four years.

But many citizens say that
our elected officials

aren't working much together
at all, and they're

sick of that.

What can Wisconsin residents
do to encourage their elected

officials to come back to
the negotiating table and

actually compromise more.

That's the million
dollar question.

I think part of it is to
ensure that they vote.

We have very low turnout
in elections all over

the United States, and
particularly in statewide

elections, local
elections, and even in

some of the congressional
elections, if it's not

a presidential election year,
people don't turn out to vote.

So that's the first thing.

people need to vote with
commitment, regardless

of what the election is.

And then they need to hold their
elected officials accountable

for what they promise to do and
what they are doing if they're

not ensuring that they're
making the government work for

them. And, you know,
I think there's

also a sense that when a
representative is elected, he

only represents the
people who voted for him.

When, in fact, he represents
the entire state, he represents

the people in this district
who may not have voted

for him or she represents
the people in her district

who may not have voted.

And I think we've lost that
sense of we're here to

support the good of all.

You're retired now.

You're chasing.

For grandkids around kind of,
except for these kind of things.

What do you miss
about your work?

Yeah, I miss the people.

When you go to work every
day, you're dealing with

people every single day.

I'm dealing with young people
who are ambitious and who

want to succeed in diplomacy.

I'm dealing with my colleagues
and listening to their ideas.

So I do miss that part of
being engaged in foreign

policy every single day.

But I don't miss the -- I don't
know how to describe it --

the turmoil that we go
through every single day.

You know, I was the US
representative to the

United Nations and I'd
go into the Security

Council and often negotiate
and fight with 14 other people

to come out of the room
with something that was

meaningful to us but also
to the rest of the world.

I don't miss that part of it.

You seem to be very
uncertain and even scary

times for some folks.

Yes. Where do
you find hope?

You know, in young people, this
is why I'm at the university.

I want to hear from
young people, but I also

want to encourage them.

When we look at, if I just
use Africa as an example,

the medium age is 19.

So half of that population
is under the age of 19.

Fast forward 20 years, those
young people are going to

be in leadership positions.

And so we have to ensure
that they are invested in

the futures of their country,
that young people here

in the United States are
invested in the future,

and want to see our country
work and they're committed

to seeing the country work.

So that gives me so much
hope, because when I talk to

them, they still have hope.

And we have to ensure
that they continue to

work in a positive way
and help us make this

world a better place.

Linda Thomas Greenfield,
thank you so much.