You
It seemed like the whole world was watching Wisconsin
and its Supreme Court election this past Tuesday.
How does the victory for liberal judge Susan Crawford
inform the political direction more broadly going forward?
We check in with chair of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin,
Ben Wickler, and thanks very much for being here.
Thanks for having me, Frederica.
So were you expecting a ten point lead for Susan Crawford?
I was not.
You know, the Republicans, Elon Musk, the whole kind of right-wing machine
poured more money into this race than we've ever seen in any judicial election
in American history.
And it seemed hard to believe they didn't have a theory behind it.
As it turned out, they did drive up their turnout.
They won enough votes to defeat Janet Potisaywitz in 2023.
They hit their target.
It's just that the number of votes for Susan Crawford was so much more.
This was a combination of an amazing candidate with a superb campaign
and full support from the party and all the different allied groups.
Also, Elon Musk personally inserting himself in a way that I think
incited more people to vote against Brett Shimmel than for Brett Shimmel.
And then on top of all that, there's a rage in the electorate right now
about what's happening to this country, the sense that our constitutions
being ripped to shreds, that social security is under attack,
things that should be politically off limits are being torn to pieces
by Elon Musk, Donald Trump, and the Republicans.
And I think that expressed itself in a margin of victory
that not only says something about this race and people's preference
for the integrity of Susan Crawford over what they saw in Brett Shimmel,
but also the direction of politics in this whole national moment.
When you saw Elon Musk in Green Bay up on stage with a cheese head,
what was going through your head?
Well, first of all, I thought, that's not your cheese head, buddy.
Secondly, it felt to me like Wisconsin can't fall for this.
Surely, it can't fall for this.
This is the richest man in the world who is pulling money out of the pockets
of people all over our state.
They just fired everyone involved in the low-income home heating program.
These are programs that help people stay warm in the winter in Wisconsin
that they're dismantling to fund extra tax cuts for people like Elon Musk.
So that's happening with one hand.
The other hand is holding a million-dollar novelty check.
It was such a transparent attempt to buy our election and our democracy
in order to enrich the already ultra-wealthy at the expense of working people
that it felt like I hoped with all my being that it would backfire.
As it turned out, it backfired big time.
How do Democrats intend to trade on the Trump agenda going forward?
Well, unfortunately, there's a huge amount to run against,
and Democrats can simply say what we're for.
We believe in a country that works for working people,
not just for the ultra-wealthy.
We believe every person should have basic freedoms and dignity and respect,
and that creates a gigantic contrast with an administration
that seems intent on torpedoing the entire economy,
and then carving out chunks of special favors for the wealthy friends of the President
as though he's a mob boss dividing up the spoils.
This is a totally catastrophic administration that seems to be intent on steering us
into a recession, and all the Republicans in Congress and in the Senate,
they seem to check in about mean tweets from Trump and Elon Musk
or maybe primary challenges to do anything about it.
So there's going to be a wave.
You can already feel it building.
You could see the first cresting of that wave in Wisconsin on Tuesday,
but I think it's going to sweep this whole country for these next two years
and probably the next four years, because they're so, so bad at this right now,
and Democrats actually believe in making government work for people.
What kind of advice do you have for Democrats nationally
to replicate what happened in Wisconsin this week?
Well, first, what Susan Crawford did, I think, is really a model.
She was crystal clear at every stop.
She would say, I never dreamed as a little girl growing up in Chippewa Falls
that I'd be up against the richest man in the world.
She made the case about her integrity by telling her life story
about growing up with a sibling with special needs,
who she took care of, a protective instinct,
her work as a prosecutor, and then working in state government,
then in private practice defending Planned Parenthood,
which drew a contrast on abortion, which is still a very powerful issue in our state,
I think, a lot of states.
And then, as a judge, how she treated everyone equally who walked into our courtroom,
and then the contrast was corruption.
So it wasn't just that Brad Chamble was very far right-wing
and supported the abortion ban.
It was also the corruption of giving special favors to his campaign contributors.
And Elon Musk and Trump are kind of guaranteeing that every Republican
in Washington gets caught in that swirl of corruption right now.
The message about who's serving the ultra rich
and who's serving regular folks, that ties into a question of character.
And I think for Democrats, being clear about their character,
about their values, about who they're going to work for and fight for,
and then drawing a clear contrast with the other side,
not wavering or backing down or cowering,
that actually is a model I think will work well.
People want to see candidates who are ready to fight for things
that most Americans believe in.
And I think that's what Democrats can offer.
What is your comment on being part of the most expensive court race in U.S. history?
My comment is it is long past time for campaign finance reform.
This is preposterous.
And I say that the Democrats have outraged Republicans
and our state party for most of the last bunch of years.
And I was saying that even then, it's part of our state party platform very clearly.
The Wisconsin campaign finance laws were written after McCain Feingold,
I was a Russ Feingold intern, was struck down with Citizens United.
And then nationally, the flood of dark money came in in Wisconsin,
Robin Voss and Republicans rewrote our campaign finance laws in 2015.
If Democrats regain control, let's clean up our politics.
And if Republicans would like to actually join Democrats to do that,
let's get started together.
But this idea that the richest people in the world should blunder in,
hand out million dollar checks and try to buy our democracy,
it's an affront to the idea of a country where the people are supposed to rule,
not the power of wealth.
And we have a lot of work to do to create a change.
Ben Wickler, thanks very much.
Thanks so much.
How fabulous you are at raising money, right?
Yeah, I mean, we're using the rules that they wrote.
Yeah, right.
And, you know, we've been, at every step, we've advocated for changes in these laws.
I will also say, if big money leaves politics, we're much better at small dollar fundraising, too.
And if money's not the factor, you know, I think our policies are more popular.
So we would like to have an even playing field.
But this is, this is, it felt like the kind of, uh, reduct you at absurdum of our campaign finance laws,
what we just experienced.
It's like what people warned about when Citizens United went through.
Literally, the richest person on planet Earth, flying in and it's private jet.
No.
Finding our bribes, like, come on.
You know, and it's funny to me, just as a citizen, you gotta, you gotta believe it.
You have some voters.
They don't go for that.
No.
Well, that was, I was so glad to see.