1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,120 That's the way I feel standing in the middle of my own truth. 2 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:03,480 High own business here. 3 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,240 I've got all kinds of plan for this joint. 4 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,240 Plans for my own ideas waiting for you to meet him. 5 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,880 Maybe we can get matching table courts and napkins, 6 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:14,680 and we can redecorate the powder room. 7 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:16,400 You get plenty of powder in the atmosphere, Stinks. 8 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,040 Yeah, well, now take down them fighting pictures 9 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,720 and we'll put up George and Mars reports. 10 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,800 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't put George and Mars up. 11 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,760 I mean, pictures of George and Mars, 12 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,040 they always look like they don't want nobody to drink. 13 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:32,800 No, no, no. 14 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:33,560 No, no, no, eat it. 15 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:34,960 Don't eat it. Don't eat it. Don't eat it. 16 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,400 Don't eat it. Don't eat it. 17 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:37,600 I'm right on the tour. 18 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:38,640 I know. No, no, no, no, no. 19 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:39,640 Come on, wait. 20 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:40,960 No, no, no, no. 21 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:41,760 Nice drink. 22 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:45,000 We'll get rid of the pinball machine because that's gambit. 23 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:46,240 Eat it, eat it. Get rid of the pinball machine 24 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,280 and the guy who smells like garlic will come around, 25 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,520 kiss me on bone shakes, and put a hold on my head. 26 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,640 That's all. 27 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:54,040 Oh, that's all. 28 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:54,880 I'm through nothing. I don't know. 29 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,720 Even though I hate the powder, I'm outside. 30 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:57,720 That's enough. 31 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,440 Now, when I want to hear no more, this is my boss. 32 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,400 I'm the boss of this bar, and I'm the boss, 33 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:03,760 and I'm the guy that says, what goes? 34 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,000 But you made me a partner. 35 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,200 When did I do that? 36 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:08,680 When did you forge my name? 37 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:09,680 Oh, my God. 38 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:10,680 Oh, my God. 39 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:11,680 Whoo! 40 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:12,680 Whoo! 41 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:13,680 Whoo! 42 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:14,680 Whoo! 43 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:15,680 Whoo! 44 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:16,680 Whoo! 45 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:17,680 Whoo! 46 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:18,680 Whoo! 47 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:19,680 Whoo! 48 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:20,680 Whoo! 49 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:21,680 Whoo! 50 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:22,680 Whoo! 51 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:23,680 Whoo! 52 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:24,680 Whoo! 53 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:25,680 Whoo! 54 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:26,680 Whoo! 55 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:27,680 Whoo! 56 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:28,680 Whoo! 57 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:29,680 Whoo! 58 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:30,680 Whoo! 59 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:31,680 Whoo! 60 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:32,680 Whoo! 61 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:33,680 Whoo! 62 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:34,680 Whoo! 63 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:35,680 Whoo! 64 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:36,680 Whoo! 65 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:37,680 Whoo! 66 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:38,680 Whoo! 67 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,960 All in the family was recorded on tape before a live audience. 68 00:01:42,960 --> 00:01:43,960 Whoa! 69 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:45,960 you're not going to be able to 70 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:47,960 be able to be able to be able 71 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:49,960 to be able to be able to be 72 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:51,960 able to be able to be able to 73 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:53,960 be able to be able to be able 74 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:55,960 to be able to be able to be 75 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:57,960 able to be able to be able 76 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,960 to be able to be able to be 77 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:01,960 able to be able to be able to 78 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:03,960 be able to be able to be able 79 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:05,960 to be able to be able to be 80 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:07,960 able to be able to be able to 81 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:09,960 be able to be able to be able 82 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:11,960 to be able to be able to be 83 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:12,960 able to be able to be able to 84 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,960 be able to be able to be 85 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,960 able to be able to be able 86 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:18,960 to be able to be able to be 87 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:20,960 able to be able to be able to 88 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,960 be able to be able to be able 89 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,960 to be able to be able to be 90 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:26,960 able to be able to be able 91 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,960 to be able to be able to 92 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:29,960 be able to be able to be 93 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:31,960 able to be able to be able 94 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:33,960 to be able to be able to 95 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:35,960 be able to be able to be 96 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:36,960 able to be able to be able 97 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:37,960 able to be able to be able to 98 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,960 be able to be able to be a 99 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:40,960 able to be able to be able to 100 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:41,960 be able to be able to be able 101 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,400 County Circuit Court Judge and former Assistant Attorney General 102 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,160 Under Governor Scott Walker. If you're trying to legislate from the bunch that's 103 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:54,080 completely out of bounds. And a pellet court judge Chris Taylor. My commitment 104 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,320 is to make sure that people have a fair process that their rights are 105 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,960 protected. A former Dane County Circuit Court Judge and former democratic state 106 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,280 lawmaker. Not just protecting people's rights but checking the power of the 107 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,840 other branches of government. Tonight the exclusive head-to-head matcha. When 108 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:16,200 people describe you as the conservative candidate. What do you say? Well it's 109 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,040 somewhat amusing. When people describe you as the liberal candidate how do you 110 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:25,120 respond to that. But look I care about people's rights. And now live from the 111 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:31,560 WISN TV studios in downtown Milwaukee. Tonight's moderators WISN 12 112 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:36,720 political director Matt Smith. And up front co-host 12 News anchor Jared Jordan. 113 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:40,880 Good evening everyone and welcome. Thank you for your patience and that of the 114 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,280 candidates for sticking with us through tonight's severe weather. We are live 115 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,280 in our WISN 12 News studios. We thank our audience across Wisconsin for 116 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,520 joining us for the first and only televised debate between the two 117 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,320 candidates for Wisconsin Supreme Court. With us right now to state appellate 118 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,440 court judges the honorable Maria Lazar and the honorable Chris Taylor. Thank you 119 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,360 both for being here. You're so very welcome. So much. The top vote getter on 120 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:07,240 Tuesday will serve a 10 year term on the state Supreme Court filling the seat of 121 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:12,320 conservative justice Rebecca Bradley who is not seeking reelection. First tonight 122 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:16,800 a few ground rules. This is a debate but we'll be having a conversation. We'll be 123 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,760 discussing the key issues facing Wisconsin. Candidates are asked to state 124 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:25,680 their positions stay on topic and to be concise. The candidates may speak to 125 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,840 each other but we'll manage the time on any given topic and move the 126 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:32,760 conversation along if necessary. At the end each candidate will make a 127 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,600 closing statement. We flipped a coin to determine who will get the first 128 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,680 question. So let's get started with Judge Taylor. Here we are just five days 129 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:44,400 out from election day and already some 251,000 Wisconsinites have already cast 130 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:48,320 their ballots yet a good number say they don't know much about this race and 131 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:51,640 they don't know who they'll vote for. Judge Taylor with control of the court 132 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:56,400 not at stake. Tell us what is at stake in this race. Well first of all thank you 133 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:01,240 so much for hosting this debate. I am so happy to be here and I really 134 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,280 appreciate your flexibility and rescheduling this debate when I was 135 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:10,320 battling with the kidney stone last week. So thanks so much. Well people 136 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:15,360 should care and I think they do care about this race. I have traveled all over 137 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:21,280 the state of Wisconsin for the last 11 months and I have met Wisconsinites from 138 00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:25,760 every corner of this state who are hungry for a government that works for 139 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:30,960 them and prioritizes them and they are hungry for a justice that's going to 140 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:35,240 stand up for them. Protect their rights. Protect our democracy and protect our 141 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,640 elections. Those things have never been more important. I have dedicated my 142 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:46,440 entire 30-year legal career to protecting people's rights and freedoms 143 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:51,880 and making sure as a judge that they get equal justice when they are in the 144 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,160 courtroom. I have been a lawyer in private practice, the law and policy 145 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,640 director for Planned Parenthood, a legislator and for the last six years a 146 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:06,280 judge my passion throughout my entire life is justice. I am running to be a 147 00:06:06,280 --> 00:06:12,520 justice for the people of Wisconsin. Judge Lazar with control of the court not at 148 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,560 stake in this race. What is at stake in this race? Well again thank you so very 149 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,000 much for inviting us and thank you to everyone in my home city Wisconsin for 150 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:26,840 watching. What's at stake in this race? Justice, integrity, independence. I am 151 00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:32,000 running to stop the erosion of faith in our state Supreme Court. The choice in 152 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:36,640 this race could not be more clear. On the one hand you have a judge, an 153 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,720 experienced judge who's been on the bench for more than 12 years protecting the 154 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:45,680 rights of everyone in this state and on the other hand you have a radical extreme 155 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:50,720 legislator who is known as the most liberal of the 99 in that assembly who 156 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:57,440 now as a judicial activist wants to put her views, her values and her agenda in 157 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:02,480 the court above the law. I am running so that we can restore independence and I 158 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:06,520 am the only credible candidate in this race who can do that and so that's why 159 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:11,000 I'm looking forward to being Wisconsin's new justice for the next 10 years. You 160 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,280 both describe your judicial philosophies differently. Judge Taylor 161 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,880 you've set your philosophy centers around people and equal justice. Judge 162 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,640 Lazar you've described your judicial philosophy as originalism with a touch 163 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:27,080 of textualism. Judge Lazar I'm curious why is Judge Taylor's philosophy not fit 164 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:31,480 for the court? Well in this race you have to understand that we need a judge who 165 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:36,400 loves the law, not a judge who loves their causes or their beliefs or their 166 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:42,320 agendas. I am going to be a justice on this court who's looking to put only the 167 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:46,600 law and interpret the law as it's written. I do not intend to follow any 168 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,320 mandate or agenda or to legislate from the bench. I am going to actually look 169 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:55,280 what is there when people come in front of my court. They look they know two 170 00:07:55,280 --> 00:08:00,240 things. One I always treat them with respect and number two they always have 171 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:05,600 a fair and full opportunity to be heard and I decide the case only on the law 172 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,600 and the facts. Judge Taylor why is Judge Lazar's philosophy not fit for the court? 173 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:15,240 Well first of all Judge Lazar is the only person in this race who has brought an 174 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:21,840 extreme right-wing political agenda to the bench. She has refused to follow 175 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:29,800 precedent. She ruled to release personal private voting information to a right 176 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:35,400 wing group that tried to overturn our election. Thank goodness she was reversed 177 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:40,680 by the state Supreme Court. She has been reversed repeatedly because she 178 00:08:40,680 --> 00:08:46,920 refuses to follow the law. She has a very specific agenda that favors big 179 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:52,880 corporations and right-wing special interests. I don't know of one public 180 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,320 judicial endorsement that she has had. In contrast I have the support of over 181 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:02,640 hundred and sixty judges throughout the state of Wisconsin including the 182 00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:07,400 majority of our own colleagues on the Court of Appeals but let me get to your 183 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:13,080 question. My opponent has described her judicial philosophy as being originalist. 184 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:19,760 What this means is she believes you have to go back centuries to what the 185 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:26,360 Constitution go back to 1788 when the Constitution was written or when one of 186 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:32,600 the amendments was passed like the 14th Amendment was passed in 1868. She wants 187 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:37,640 to go back and basically say if the right wasn't recognized like the right to 188 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:42,200 abortion, if it wasn't recognized in the Constitution or if it was not recognized 189 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,680 in society, it does not exist. Don't you touch Lizzare you're shaking your head. 190 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:50,600 No and this is exactly what I've faced through this entire race. This race is 191 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:55,600 a race for a judicial seat, not a legislative seat. My opponent is using 192 00:09:55,600 --> 00:10:01,040 the same old political playbook and I will tell you the problem with that is we do 193 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:06,800 not want a legislator. We do not cannot afford a legislator on the bench as to 194 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:11,040 my statements that I've been reversed. You know I guess when my opponent has a 195 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,640 few more years of judicial experience she'll understand that being reversed is 196 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:20,360 a part of being an independent judiciary and the Supreme Court, the 197 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:25,120 four liberal majority on this Supreme Court was reversed nine to zero by the 198 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,280 United States Supreme Court in a case about religious freedom Catholic 199 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,520 charities. I have a really good friend who's a judge and a mentor to me throughout 200 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,000 my 12 years on this bench and she said you're actually not a true judge until 201 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:43,360 you've been reversed. So I take the speed of that. What my opponent just said is 202 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:48,720 she was reversed in a case called Wisconsin Voter Alliance for to see court. She 203 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:53,360 was not reversed on the merits. She was admonished by our state Supreme Court 204 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:58,640 because she ignored precedent. She even said in her opinion she was ignoring 205 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,520 precedent. That is not what a judge is supposed to do. She is the one who has 206 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:08,880 brought a distinctly political agenda to this court. She has said it on the 207 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:13,560 campaign. She's running to be a conservative justice. She is running with 208 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:18,160 an agenda to restrict access to reproductive health care. It's in her own commercial. 209 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,960 And I have to respond to that. I have never said I'm running as a conservative 210 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:27,800 candidate. I've said it's independent and that's what I am. The secret case had to 211 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:31,840 do with procedure and the state Supreme Court sent it back to me and I changed 212 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:36,240 the way I responded and that was fine as to reproductive rights. My opponent is 213 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:40,240 fooling everyone in the state of Wisconsin. The state Supreme Court has 214 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:45,240 ruled on abortion. It is final. It's a 20-week compromise and I've said as a 215 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:49,480 judge that I will respect and honor that. My opponent, when she was a 216 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:55,480 legislator, when she tried to pass over 243 bills and only six passed, one of them 217 00:11:55,480 --> 00:12:03,720 was about abortion. And she wanted it to be abortion at any time that I'm 218 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:14,160 set on the ballot. My point to the contrary believes it is. We will get to 219 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:17,840 abortion in a minute. First, we're going to talk about the current state of the 220 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,120 court. Yeah, the winner of this race will fill the seat of retiring Justice 221 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,440 Rebecca Bradley and her decision not to seek reelection. She said, quote, for 222 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,080 years, I have warned that under the control of judicial activists, the court 223 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,600 will make itself more powerful than the legislature, more powerful than the 224 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:36,760 governor. That warning, she said, when unheated and Wisconsin has only seen the 225 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,200 beginning of what is an alarming shift from thoughtful principal judicial 226 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,760 service toward bitter partisanship, personal attacks and political games 227 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:49,320 manship. Judge Taylor is Justice Bradley's assessment correct and if so, how would 228 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:55,280 you fix that? Well, look, when I was in the legislature, I saw bills that I 229 00:12:55,280 --> 00:13:01,680 thought were unconstitutional be passed. The problem was we had a conservative 230 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:07,360 state Supreme Court that was in the pocket of right-wing extremists. They 231 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:13,480 would not hold the legislative branch accountable. What I will do as a justice 232 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:20,120 is be fiercely independent. I have a strong judicial record. I have never 233 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:27,240 once been reversed. I heard thousands of cases as a circuit court judge. I had 234 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:31,960 dozens and dozens of complicated jury trials. I've written dozens of 235 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:37,680 published decisions on the Court of Appeals. I am scrupulous in applying the 236 00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:43,920 law and I have a spine of steel when it comes to making sure people's rights 237 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:49,400 and freedoms are protected. So I bring a collaborative nature to the court. I've 238 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,840 been endorsed by almost every single judge who's ever worked with me. They know 239 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:59,400 how hard I work. They know I like listening to other people's opinions. That 240 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:07,320 makes us a stronger court. So I bring a strong collaborative spirit. I am open 241 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:11,960 to considering other potential and I think our court is on the right path in 242 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,640 protecting people's rights and safeguarding our democracy. Judge Lazar is 243 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,040 justice Bradley's assessment of the court correct and if so how would you 244 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,840 fix it? Well I believe first of all I do have to respond and say that I have 245 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,240 posted endorsements and they do include the Milwaukee Police Association for 246 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,440 Turnover the Police and many many judges as well. But with regard to what 247 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:36,360 Justice Bradley said I do see that there is a concern by people in the state and 248 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,760 when I go and talk to people across the state since I've started running in 249 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:44,680 October they do tell me they're concerned that they will not get a fair and full 250 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,080 opportunity to be heard and that one side or another is going to get a 251 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,600 prejudgment in the case and I will tell you the concern that I have. It's that 252 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,760 when someone walks into the court it's not whether the court is right or left 253 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:02,320 you need a court that is neutral. You need a court that decides things only 254 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:07,160 based on the law and the facts and that's what I have done my entire life and 255 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:11,920 that as a judge and that's what I will do. We need to have a collaborative court. 256 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:17,240 I agree with my opponent in that but we also need to have people who will stand 257 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:22,160 up and stand up for the rights for the laws and what is right in the state of 258 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,600 Wisconsin. With news this week let's move to redistricting and talk about that. 259 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,960 The geographic lines in the state that determine who represents voters in 260 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:32,920 Congress. On Tuesday a three-judge panel dismissed a challenge to Wisconsin's 261 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,280 congressional maps. The circuit court judges said they had no authority to 262 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,040 supersede the Wisconsin Supreme Court. When the court appointed these two 263 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,880 separate panels last year, conservative justices and Ed Ziegler and Rebecca 264 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,620 Bradley dissented arguing those same concerns. Justice Taylor given this 265 00:15:48,620 --> 00:15:53,960 week's ruling should this second set, this second three-judge panel considering a 266 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,120 separate lawsuit to the congressional maps, should they conclude the same that 267 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,480 this panel did this past week? Well I'm not going to comment on pending cases. 268 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,600 Those cases could come up to the court of appeals. They could certainly go up to 269 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:12,200 the Wisconsin Supreme Court. What I will say is that I think it's so incredibly 270 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:18,200 important that every citizen who is eligible to vote has the right to pick 271 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:23,720 their elected representatives, not the other way around. When my opponent was 272 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:29,440 representing Governor Scott Walker and defending legislative maps that were 273 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:34,480 drafted in secret that some election experts called the most gerrymandered 274 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:41,160 maps in the nation, I was working in the legislature on a non-partisan redistricting 275 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:49,300 process. So I have worked throughout my time on making this process fair, taking 276 00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:54,480 out the partisanship while my opponent was defending what some election 277 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,560 experts called the most partisan maps in 40 years. 278 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,000 Judge Lazar on this three-judge panel, should this second panel conclude the same? 279 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:05,360 I will agree as well that I can't say what they should or shouldn't do. I will 280 00:17:05,360 --> 00:17:10,160 note that it was very unusual to send it to those panels and I will also address 281 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:14,560 redistricting that my opponent has raised. The map in Wisconsin has 282 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,600 straight lines and it follows communities of interest and it followed the 283 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,680 Constitution and the only thing that a federal court did in that map was move 284 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:28,600 one line from sideways to the other way. If you want to see a real gerrymandered 285 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:33,280 map then I propose everyone watching go look at the map of Illinois which a 286 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:38,240 reporter just told me I think a week ago looks like a giant octopus swallowing 287 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:43,320 the city of Chicago. That is a gerrymandered map. That is not what we have in 288 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,440 Wisconsin. We follow the rules here and when I was at the Department of Justice 289 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:52,920 I did my best as a lawyer to advocate for my clients which were the state of 290 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:58,120 Wisconsin and any individual. I was not hired by nor did I work for any 291 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,360 governor or any legislator. I worked for the Department of Justice in Wisconsin. 292 00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:05,960 Judge Taylor before this week's ruling Democratic Congressman Mark Pocan who 293 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:09,760 is supporting your campaign had said that the court is dragging its feet and 294 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:14,200 that it may cost us the ability to have fair maps ahead of the midterms. Are the 295 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:20,520 current congressional maps fair? Look this is a pending case. We do not as judges 296 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:26,440 we cannot comment on pending cases or express an opinion about a case that's 297 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:32,680 pending that could come before us but I am committed to making sure that every 298 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:39,400 eligible voter in the state of Wisconsin has the ability to pick their elected 299 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:44,800 representatives not the other way around. That's not how it's supposed to work so 300 00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:50,200 that is my commitment and you know I believe that everyone's vote should 301 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:56,880 count. Votes should not be elevated and votes should not be diminished based on 302 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,440 the drawing of legislative maps. Judge Liz are you've written as a judge I 303 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,640 believe the people's representatives are responsible for drawing maps and the 304 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,600 courts are responsible for making sure those maps follow the law. So do the 305 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,800 current congressional maps follow the law. And again I would agree with my 306 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,080 opponent that I can't comment on the exact map since they are the subject of 307 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,040 two lawsuits but I will say that people have to understand in the state of 308 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,960 Wisconsin that I agree every vote eligible vote should count and I think 309 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,880 that if you're looking at the maps and the circumstances now it's highly 310 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:33,160 unlikely that anything will happen before because before the mid-term 311 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:38,920 elections because people have to start circulating papers this month in April 312 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:42,520 and you can't be doing that if you don't know who you're going to be 313 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,000 representing. When I was campaigning it was interesting I met a gentleman who 314 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,640 told me that he had not moved in the last ten years but that because of the 315 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,760 changes in the maps that he had three different people representing him and 316 00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:00,440 that's also a concern and an issue that should not happen we should be drawing 317 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:05,560 these maps once every ten years after the census and moving on and doing that 318 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,920 and they should be drawn by our people's representatives the legislature and 319 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,720 approved by the governor and then they come to the courts. Let's talk about 320 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,520 elections. This week President Trump signed an executive order targeting 321 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,640 federal elections. The order in part would require proof of citizenship by 322 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:25,840 creating a state citizenship list and limit mail-in voting. Democrats have 323 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,140 already filed a lawsuit looking to block that. It comes though as Congress 324 00:20:29,140 --> 00:20:33,360 debates the SAVE Act which would also require nationwide voter ID. The 325 00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:37,280 president has also said he wants a ban on mail-in voting all of which could 326 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,200 end up before the courts. Judge Lazar in a press release referring to the SAVE 327 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,640 Act you've promised to uphold Wisconsin's voter ID law and said federal gridlock 328 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,760 continues to stall common-sense election integrity measures. Do you support 329 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:53,760 every provision in the SAVE Act including a possible ban on mail-in voting? No no I 330 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,120 don't. What I was talking about and what I stand for is the fact that in 331 00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:03,000 Wisconsin the citizens of this state voted to have a voter ID requirement when you 332 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:08,560 vote and that's what I would uphold. What I look at and some of the and I 333 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:13,240 actually believe that early voting is responsible and important and necessary 334 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,520 and vital and I think that mail-in voting the same so I don't stand for all the 335 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:22,800 things that they're throwing in now or talking about now federally. I think it's 336 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,120 important that we tell people in the state of Wisconsin that our elections are 337 00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:31,520 safe they're secure and that their votes count and that's the key important thing 338 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:35,920 that we need to address in the state. Judge Taylor you've previously called 339 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,720 Wisconsin's voter ID law one of the most extreme in the country saying it's 340 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:44,440 true intention is suppressing our ability to vote. Last April more than 60% of 341 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,040 Wisconsin voters approved in shining the state's voter ID law into the state 342 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,840 Constitution. How did you vote on that? When I was in the legislature on the 343 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:57,400 constitutional amendment last April. Oh well how would I do in the ballot boxes 344 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:02,720 nobody's business but I can say that it is the law of the land and I will 345 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:08,760 implement the law of the land. I'm glad to hear my opponents say that every 346 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:14,280 vote should count because she has been endorsed in the past by people who led 347 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:21,280 the charge in trying to overturn our 2020 election and that is very alarming 348 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:28,200 she will not say whether the Trump v Biden lawsuit that was filed in 2020 349 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,400 in an attempt to overturn our election which was defeated by our state Supreme 350 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:37,680 Court by one vote. My opponent will not say whether that was the right decision. 351 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:44,200 I am committed to making sure that all citizens who are eligible to vote can 352 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:50,520 cast a ballot. I am very concerned by what I hear from the federal government. We 353 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:55,960 have the ability as a state it's our authority to administer our elections and 354 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:01,240 it seems to me that the federal government is trying to infringe on the 355 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:06,200 independence of the state of Wisconsin and that is very concerning. Any response 356 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,600 to that? Yes I would say that I'm not people who may have endorsed me in the 357 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,160 past I'm not responsible for all of their thoughts their ideas that's 358 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,080 absolutely absurd and that's not a way to look at things and and my 359 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,960 endorsements this year as I've told you have been very limited I've put only the 360 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:26,460 people recently the law enforcement endorsements and my judicial 361 00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:30,160 endorsements on my website that's who I've been endorsed by those are the 362 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:35,040 endorsements I've sought this time with respect to elections I agree every vote 363 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:40,640 should count and I am 100% for that and I also believe that we have to uphold the 364 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:46,440 voter ID law that the citizens of the state passed overwhelmingly and I also 365 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,440 would note that when my my opponent was in the legislature she did her best to 366 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,760 dismantle those protections for our safe and fair elections and that is not 367 00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:59,560 acceptable. That's not true. That is absolutely not true. I did everything in 368 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:07,200 my power as a legislator to make sure that people had the ability to vote. It's 369 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,720 interesting my opponent will not answer the question about whether she thinks 370 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:18,280 the Trump v. Biden case was correctly decided that was a lawsuit brought by 371 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:23,560 President Trump to overturn our 2020 election there was no allegation by the 372 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:27,880 way in that suit of voter fraud it was all on these procedures that was only 373 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,920 defeated by our state Supreme Court by one vote our election hung in the 374 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,240 balance by one vote. My opponent will not say whether that was correctly 375 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,680 decided or whether our election should have been overturned and I will say our 376 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:49,040 election was valid that that Joe Biden did win and that that's the state of the 377 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:53,960 law law in our country and I support that 100% I think we should be looking 378 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,960 forward. I don't think we should be looking back. I agree 100% of who won 379 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:04,640 that election and how it was won right now on election issues as the 380 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,360 appeals court judges and the Supreme Court is weighed in as well from 381 00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:10,680 President Trump challenging the results of the 2020 election to Governor 382 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,920 Evers attempting to postpone in-person voting during the pandemic so Judge 383 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,400 Taylor what election related issues should the court be prepared to address 384 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,520 ahead of the midterm elections. Well I'm very concerned that we might have 385 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:26,020 efforts to suppress the vote. I don't know what's going to happen with the 386 00:25:26,020 --> 00:25:32,080 safe act. I think that could cause a lot of chaos. I think there could be I'm 387 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:38,400 hoping that we will continue to allow mail-in voting that would cause 388 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:43,320 complete havoc but look this is why we need a strong state Supreme Court that's 389 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,160 going to hold the federal government accountable. My opponent is going to be 390 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,720 a rubber stamp for the federal government. Judge I just absolutely have to 391 00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,160 disagree. I have never been a rubber stamp for any side whatsoever. I'm not 392 00:25:56,160 --> 00:26:00,760 beholden to any party. I'm not a member of a party. My opponent is a 393 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:06,040 Democrat. She said as recently as March of this year to a group of people as 394 00:26:06,040 --> 00:26:11,160 reported that she is still a Democrat and the problem is when you look at this 395 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,440 election and you look at who's donating money. My opponent has almost three 396 00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,480 quarters of a million dollars from the Democratic Party and she's still to this 397 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,960 day will not say whether she will recuse if they bring a case up in front of the 398 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,080 state Supreme Court. She has also not said if she will recuse if the 399 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,320 organization where she was their policy advisor planned parenthood brings a case 400 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,880 up in front of the state Supreme Court and I will tell you when you look at 401 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:40,040 recusal the easy way for people in the state to understand it if you're picking 402 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:45,640 a jury and the jury member was a member of a party or was a member of the company 403 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,560 that's bringing the lawsuit. They're not on that jury. Why would we want them on 404 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,520 that? Why would we want them that case as a judge? It's recusal in them in any 405 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:59,280 direct response. Absolutely. Well I am so proud of the tens of thousands of 406 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:05,960 grassroots supporter I have supporting my campaign unlike my opponent. My average 407 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:11,560 contribution is less than a hundred dollars. My opponent is being supported 408 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:18,760 by right wing mega donors. That is who is supporting her campaign and they know 409 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:23,760 she's going to be their rubber stamp so I am really proud. I want to run a strong 410 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,800 grassroots campaign. My campaign is about the people of the state of 411 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:35,600 Wisconsin. My campaign and my whole commitment to people in running is to be 412 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:41,120 justice for the people. Not the super wealthy, not the billionaires and the 413 00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:45,680 millionaires, not the big corporations but the people of the state of Wisconsin. 414 00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:50,920 I have to respond. My opponent has raised over five plus million dollars from 415 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,840 outside groups. Seventy-three percent of her money comes from Wisconsin. The 416 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:59,280 rest is not. I have not raised that amount of money. I have always been an 417 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,560 independent judge, independent justice. I have never stood for any party or any 418 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,720 person other than the facts and the law. My opponent still is not telling you 419 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:13,440 whether she'd recuse from those mega donors who are donating to her campaign. 420 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:20,760 Let's talk about recusal, a broader conflicts of interest here. Chief Justice 421 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:24,960 Jill Kirovsky will hold public hearings exploring a potential new recusal rule 422 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,840 essentially forcing justices to remove themselves from cases over a potential 423 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:32,840 conflict. Currently justices are not required to recuse space solely on 424 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,640 campaign contributions, endorsements or independent expenditures from a party. 425 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,880 Judge Lazard, do you support a stricter recusal rule and how far should it go? 426 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:48,080 Well, I'm glad that there is a recusal petition filed by several retired judges 427 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:52,680 in front of the state Supreme Court. Recusal is such a difficult situation and 428 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:58,640 it's something where you have to not only recuse if you believe you have a bias but 429 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:02,560 you have to recuse if you believe that people looking at the case would not 430 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,920 think that they're getting a fair opportunity to be heard. My opponent has 431 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,640 tons of money coming in and has ties to groups and has not said whether she 432 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,640 will recuse for those. She tried to pass a law or when she was in the 433 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,720 legislature that said that and now she's disavowing that. The key thing that I 434 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:26,200 think is important is recusal really is tied to the integrity of the judge or 435 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:32,320 the justice and I have spent the last 12 years as a judge showing that I have 436 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,480 that integrity and that independence. I have ruled against the state, the 437 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,000 district attorney's office, my old employer, the Department of Justice, I 438 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,280 have ruled against things that my opponent would believe are right-wing 439 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,760 special interest groups and I don't see the same thing coming from my opponent 440 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:52,600 who has said to this day that she is an advocate and an activist which should 441 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:57,520 disqualify her right off the bat from this court. That is an absolute lie. 442 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:04,160 An absolute lie. I have an incredible strong judicial record. Never have I 443 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:10,960 said I'm an activist. Never have I said I'm an advocate on the bench. That is 444 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,760 totally totally improper. Do you support a stricter recusal rule and how far should 445 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,840 that rule go? I certainly think we should consider it and I'm the only 446 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,600 candidate running who wants to hear from the public on this issue. I believe we 447 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,320 should have public hearings and let the public weigh in. It is so critically 448 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:34,280 important that as judges we have the confidence of the public and so I am 449 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,480 looking forward to hearings and I do want to hear from the public. Why should the 450 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,720 public believe that you can police yourself? I mean that's a it's you know 451 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,680 we have a judicial commission. I mean we do that you can file complaints 452 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:50,920 against judges. We can get complaints filed against us so it's not like the 453 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,560 federal system. It's not like the US Supreme Court. So we do have a system 454 00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:02,240 for complaints. It's you know it has been a system that I don't think is 455 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,840 perfect by any means. I think we need to re look at the system and try to make 456 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,080 it stronger so that people have more confidence in what we do. 457 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,960 Gentle as our quick response and to the point of why voters should believe that 458 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,720 you could police yourself? Well I think looking at my record the 12 years that 459 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,480 I've been on this bench and all the rotations that I've been in and the fact 460 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,200 that I have lived my life as an open book you can go on my website judge 461 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,960 marielazar.com. You can see what I've written about about my life my opinions 462 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,880 where I stand on things. I recognize that the state of Wisconsin wants to cure 463 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:38,680 from their judges and justices and their candidates. But I think that you have 464 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,520 to look at the integrity of the individual and I have been and I will always 465 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,160 say a total Girl Scout in this matter. In fact I was and I think that's so 466 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:52,680 important. You do have to trust the judge. I am a lawyers judge. The lawyers who 467 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:57,240 appear in front of me respect me and appreciate me. I have had no issues 468 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,640 whatsoever and I will continue to do that as a justice for the next 10 years. 469 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,080 Abortion is again an issue with this race. You both have talked about it on the 470 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,200 campaign trail and in campaign ads in a four to three decision led by the courts 471 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:13,040 liberal majority last summer. The courts liberal justices invalidated the state's 472 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:17,440 1849 abortion ban. To both of you judge Lazar will start with you. Would you 473 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,840 have voted with the courts liberal or conservative justices on that and why? 474 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,480 I think in that case I'm not going to comment where I would have voted. I didn't 475 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,880 really follow all the briefs and everything that happened. But I will tell 476 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:35,840 you this. I totally 100% 100% respect the decision that was made. I will honor 477 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:40,160 that 20 week compromise. I think that it falls within the parameters of where 478 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,480 people in the state believe it should be. And if they don't the answer is to go 479 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,200 to the legislature and the governor not the courts. My opponent when she was in 480 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,440 the legislature said that she thought that it shouldn't be 20 weeks or any 481 00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:58,400 type of restriction whatsoever. But that abortion should be allowed at any time 482 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:03,280 during the pregnancy up to the end. And she still stands with that. And I think 483 00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:07,360 that is out of the mainstream for the people in this state. You can respond 484 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,400 first. Would you have voted with the courts liberal or conservatives? I would 485 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:17,840 have voted to not implement the 1849 criminal abortion ban. It was superseded 486 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:23,920 by a whole suite of laws that directly conflicted with it. So I think it was 487 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,880 the right decision. My opponent in the past has said on television that she 488 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:35,600 would have likely voted with the minority in that case to implement that 1849 489 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:43,680 abortion ban. I have worked so much of my life as the policy and legal director 490 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:49,800 for Planned Parenthood and in the legislature to protect a woman's ability 491 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:54,720 to access reproductive health care and to make her own personal private health 492 00:33:54,720 --> 00:34:01,120 care decisions. I supported Roe versus Wade. The legislation that I worked on 493 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,800 in the legislature codified Roe versus Wade, which my opponent does not 494 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:12,200 understand. And that's what it did. That's all it did. Nobody supports what my 495 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:18,680 opponent is saying. Nobody. But I want to say this. There is no one more extreme 496 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,840 ever to have been to be a candidate on issues of reproductive health care than 497 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:29,200 my opponent. She called the overturning of Roe versus Wade very wise. And you 498 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:33,040 can look it up on television. She said it right on television. She said she 499 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,600 was likely to vote to support. I'm going to respond. I did not say I was 500 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,240 likely to vote. I did not respond ever in that regard. And what I said about 501 00:34:41,240 --> 00:34:44,880 Dobbs, which is the decision that overturned Roe versus Wade, is I said it 502 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:50,480 was good that it brought that national ban and put it back into each individual 503 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:55,760 state. So if California, where my opponent's from, or Ohio or Texas or 504 00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:02,160 Wisconsin, and their citizens want to enact a law that they believe reflects 505 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:07,600 their values, they do so through their legislators. It's not a national ban or 506 00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:13,320 national law or national line. So in Wisconsin, it is now 20 weeks. And I am 507 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,840 not the extreme candidate in this race. My opponent does have that law on the 508 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:23,000 books of hers that did not pass, saying at any time during the pregnancy, it's 509 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:31,240 there, it's black and white. Okay, so it is tragic that we have someone running 510 00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:36,320 for the state Supreme Court that is celebrating that there are women all over 511 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:41,680 this country who are victims of rape and incest who no longer are in that 512 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:48,520 tragic. I never said that. Let me finish. That is what the reality of 513 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:54,920 overturning Roe versus Wade that you have called very wise. It's not been very wise 514 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,240 for victims of rape and incest who now live in states where abortion has been 515 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:04,360 outlawed. It's not very wise for women who've lost their lives in states because 516 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:10,520 they couldn't get help when a pregnancy went wrong. I am a mother of two beloved 517 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:16,200 children. And I and my husband went through a lot of heartache to have our 518 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:23,440 children. There were a lot of tears shed, but I got access to good medical care. I am 519 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:28,280 so grateful for that, but pregnancies go wrong all over the state. And I do not 520 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:34,280 want women to suffer. I want them to get good medical care. My opponent is gonna 521 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:41,120 take us backwards. I will take us forward. That's absolutely ridiculous. This is 522 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:45,080 exactly what we've been doing in this campaign. It's the same old political 523 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,840 playbook. If you don't have anything truthful to say about your opponent, then 524 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:54,360 just lie and mislead. I have never wanted women injured. Ever, ever, ever. I have 525 00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:59,200 always said that the health and life of the mother is the most important thing. I 526 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,880 have always said that after that 20-week compromise, there are restrictions or 527 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:08,360 limitations that you talk about with your doctor, not your legislator, with 528 00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,240 your doctor. And to say that I am extreme, that I want women to die or suffer, my 529 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:17,600 opponent has been saying that from the beginning. And that is absurd. That's 530 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:22,480 the reality. That's the reality of the reversal of Roe versus Wade, which my 531 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,600 opponent called very wise. Justice, I do want to ask you about what you said. You 532 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,600 said on the issue, I commit to upholding Wisconsin's current 20-week consensus, 533 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,360 not because of personal politics, but because it is the settled law of our 534 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,440 state. So if a challenge to this law is brought before the court, have you 535 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:44,000 essentially prejudged the case? Not at all. Not at all. What I've said there is, 536 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:49,480 if the people of my state of Wisconsin go through their legislators and decide 537 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,720 that they want to change it, if not 20 weeks, make it 18, 22, whatever they want 538 00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:59,640 to do, and then the legislature passes a law that the governor signs, it 539 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,120 comes to the court, and I'm on the state Supreme Court, that's a law that one would 540 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,200 have a presumption of constitutionality, and that's what I would start with. And 541 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,240 then I would do, you know, I find it really interesting in these elections that 542 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:16,320 everyone talks about these hot button issues, and no one talks about the fact 543 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:21,840 that I decide every case exactly the same way. I don't care if it's abortion, 544 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,320 redistricting, election-related, or if it's about termination of parental rights, 545 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:31,480 or burdens of proof, I decide them the same way. I look at the law, I look at the 546 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:37,440 facts, and I make a reasoned, determined determination that is based upon those 547 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:42,080 two things. So if there's a law that's passed, and it's changed, and it comes to 548 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,720 the court, and it's constitutional, I will uphold it. Judge Taylor, you 549 00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:48,680 previously served as public policy director for Planned Parenthood of 550 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,320 Wisconsin, and have long advocated for abortion rights as a democratic state 551 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:56,320 lawmaker. How could an anti-abortion group expect to receive a fair hearing 552 00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:01,600 from you? Because I have a six-year history of being a fair and impartial 553 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:09,240 judge. I am scrupulous in applying the law. I have issued hundreds of decisions. 554 00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:14,600 I've heard thousands of cases on the circuit court. I have never not one time 555 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:21,760 been reversed, unlike my opponent who refuses to apply the law and pursues an 556 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:26,600 agenda that benefits corporations and right-wing special interests. So I have 557 00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:33,200 a really strong judicial record, and if I thought that I couldn't be fair and 558 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:38,040 impartial on a case, whatever that case may be, I would recuse myself. Would 559 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,200 you recuse yourself from any case involving Planned Parenthood? I have not 560 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:46,760 worked for Planned Parenthood in 15 years. I have not worked for various law firms 561 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:52,680 longer than that. No, I'm sure my opponent would not recuse herself from 562 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:57,960 the corporate law firm that she worked for because it's been so long. So I'm 563 00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:03,240 not gonna automatically recuse myself on any area of law that I practiced in. I 564 00:40:03,240 --> 00:40:09,200 will follow the statutes and the judicial code of ethics, which I always do, and if 565 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:13,960 I feel I cannot be fair and impartial, that is the basis for recusal, and I 566 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,240 will continue to do that on the state Supreme Court. And I'd like to respond 567 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:22,040 to two things. One, I do recuse when my partners and my law firm that I haven't 568 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:27,040 been at for, I would say, maybe 25 plus years would come in front of me. I do 569 00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,880 recuse. And second, I guess my opponent, when she gets a few more years of 570 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:36,000 judicial experience under her belt, will understand that reversals, as I've said, 571 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,400 are an integral and part of the court system, and they show that you are an 572 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:45,800 independent justice or judge. Now, you had another question. I apologize. Go ahead. 573 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:51,680 I called out by five members of the state Supreme Court for deliberately and 574 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:57,680 patently disregarding precedent, and everyone can read the decision. And I 575 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,840 wish they do, and I hope they will. Go. Yes. Thank you. As assistant attorney 576 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,960 general, you represented the case in the state, excuse me, in a case filed by 577 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,720 Planned Parenthood. Would you then recuse yourself from any case involving the 578 00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:14,080 current law or Planned Parenthood? So the case that I involved, I was involved 579 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:19,240 with, had to do with admitting privileges for doctors where the legislature wasn't 580 00:41:19,240 --> 00:41:23,560 concerned that doctors performing abortions did not have admitting privileges 581 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:28,480 at hospitals so that women, if they had complications or injured or hurt, would 582 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:32,160 not have anyone to go with them to that hospital. If that case about admitting 583 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:37,640 privileges came up, of course, that's exactly what you do as an independent 584 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:43,040 justice. You recuse on cases you are involved in or companies that you work 585 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,280 for. Quickly to both of you, and we'll move on. If the legislature passed a 586 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,800 stricter abortion ban, say six weeks known as a fetal heartbeat law, Judge Taylor, 587 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:57,960 is there a scenario you would uphold that? It's so hard to say based on a 588 00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:03,920 hypothetical. You have to see the case. You've got to apply the law. We have never 589 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:10,440 had a decision in the state of Wisconsin looking at the constitution. So I can't 590 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:15,240 say yes or no. I mean, we're not supposed to prejudge cases like that. But what I 591 00:42:15,240 --> 00:42:23,160 can say is I value every woman's ability to access reproductive health care and 592 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:27,080 make her own personal private health care decisions. When my opponent was 593 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,200 representing Scott Walker and defending that admitting privileges law, 594 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:34,880 thankfully it was struck down by the Seventh Circuit. If it hadn't been, it 595 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,040 would have eliminated abortion access for Wisconsin women. A response and 596 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,800 the legislature passed a stricter. And I would say one again, it's a 597 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,360 hypothetical, but two, I don't believe that the people in the state would 598 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:53,360 accept that limit. That's a little too close. What I it's a little too too early 599 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:58,240 in the pregnancy. But but I think the important thing here to remember is when 600 00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:01,960 I work for the Department of Justice, I was an attorney. I was an advocate. I 601 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:07,000 never worked for Scott Walker. I guess you got to get that straight to I work for 602 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,680 the Department of Justice. I represented Scott Walker. I represented 603 00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:15,640 Tony Evers. I represented Doug the Follett. I represented the legislature. I 604 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,880 represented anyone who was had to be represented by the Department of 605 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,880 Justice, including the Department of Children and Families. So I don't 606 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:29,080 understand this issue raised about what I've done there. I was an advocate and 607 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:33,160 you know what? I wanted to win all of my cases because that's what a good attorney 608 00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:38,200 does. As a judge, you step back. As a legislator, you should never be on the 609 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,960 backs. One more quick hypothetical, which I know judges love and you both love this. 610 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,040 Bring it on. To what we just did. If the legislature removed any and all 611 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:49,720 restrictions to abortion in Wisconsin, Judge LaZara, they're scenario, you 612 00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:54,200 would uphold that. I would again, one, you're talking about a hypothetical, but I 613 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:59,400 would again look to the law, look to see if it was constitutional. And and if 614 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:05,400 that's what the people voted for, and it was constitutional, but I can't really 615 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,920 say exactly where I would go. Again, I'm thinking you're throwing these 616 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,040 hypotheticals that just really will never happen. It's never going to be that 617 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:16,200 extreme or this extreme. It's going to be where we are, the 20-week compromise, 618 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:21,080 not at any time. Judge Taylor, it's quick. I would say the same thing. I do want to say 619 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:26,760 that my opponent seems to have forgotten that she, there was a recording of her 620 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:33,800 talking to some of her supporters where she did say that perhaps a fetal heart, 621 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,840 and this is, you can go look this up and read the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. 622 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,920 There was a big and listen to it. There was a big article about it where she 623 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:48,440 contemplated that perhaps a heartbeat bill was a good compromise. That's exactly what she said. 624 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,120 It's on a recording. What I said on a recording was I didn't know where people 625 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,800 in Wisconsin stood. Some people wanted it from the beginning, some people wanted it 626 00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:00,600 off the end. Some people may have wanted the heartbeat. I said that's for them to decide. 627 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:05,080 Let's move on. Another challenge to Act 10 is making its way through the courts. The 2011 628 00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:09,800 law signed by then-Governor Scott Walker eliminating collective bargaining for most public employees. 629 00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:14,600 A Dane County judge has ruled key provisions of the law unconstitutional. 630 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:19,000 The High Court has denied a request to bypass the Court of Appeals where it remains. 631 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,960 It will though so likely end up before the High Court. 632 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,160 Judge Lazar, you defended Act 10 as an assistant attorney general. 633 00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:27,800 Actually, I'll correct that, but go ahead. Go ahead. 634 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:33,480 I didn't defend Act 10 as an assistant attorney general. All I did was defend the case where 635 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:38,360 the question was, was the law properly enacted? When it got to the merits, I had nothing to do 636 00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:43,400 with any of those cases. It was just did Doug La Follette enact the law properly, 637 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:46,280 and the state's Supreme Court said he did. That's all I did. 638 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,760 As a justice, would you accuse yourself from this current case? 639 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,200 If the case has to do with whether it was properly enacted, yes. 640 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:56,040 If it has to do with the merits, there's no basis for me to do so whatsoever. 641 00:45:56,040 --> 00:46:00,520 Judge Taylor, you've been outspoken in your opposition to Act 10 as a Democratic state lawmaker. 642 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:04,520 Do you believe that Act 10 is unconstitutional, and would you accuse yourself? 643 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:10,040 Well, I did not come into the legislature until after Act 10 was passed. I was actually elected 644 00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:16,360 after it, and it is a pending case that could appear. It could come before us. 645 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,080 I don't know if it's in your court in your district. It's not in the court of appeals 646 00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:26,120 in front of me, but it certainly could come to the state Supreme Court. 647 00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:27,720 Would you accuse yourself from the case? 648 00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:34,520 No. I mean, I've never said anything about the legal merits of it, nothing about the 649 00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:44,680 constitutionality of it. I will say that I very much value the rights of working people 650 00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:52,120 to be fairly compensated. My grandmother was a single mom to my mother and struggled to make 651 00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:58,760 ends meet until she got a union job, and she was able to earn a decent wage, and she was able to 652 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:03,000 support three kids on her own and help my mom go to college, and that inspired me to go to law 653 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:10,600 school. So I value very much working people being able to get a slice of the pie they help make, 654 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:14,840 and not just the crumbs. It seems the only people doing well these days are millionaires and 655 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:20,440 billionaires. And that's the legislative answer, not a judicial one, but it's not an answer about 656 00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:27,320 my values. And values do not belong with a judge on the court. Values are not what's supposed to be 657 00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:33,640 there. You talk about the good judge. Does the respect the law? An activist judge respects her 658 00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,800 causes. Yes, go ahead. I tell you before the second district court of appeals, I'm assuming you can't 659 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:40,520 tell us if you've been assigned to that case. I can't tell you if I have or have not. 660 00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:46,440 I do want to move on. Judge Lazar, you've said that you tell new judges you are in charge of 661 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:52,200 your courtroom when talking with them about taking the bench. In December a federal jury found former 662 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:56,600 Milwaukee County Judge Hannah Dugan guilty of a felony for obstructing federal immigration 663 00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:02,040 officials attempting to make an immigration arrest inside the courthouse. Dugan is currently appealing. 664 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,920 The arrest and prosecution though sparked nationwide debate and controversy surrounding the power 665 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:12,440 of judges. Judge Taylor, did the jury make the right decision in that case? You know, I do have 666 00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:18,360 great faith in the jury system. I was not in the courtroom though. I was not the judge who presided 667 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:25,080 over that case. But as a former circuit court judge who presided over dozens and dozens of 668 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:32,280 complicated criminal cases, I do have the faith in juries typically in my own experience. Now 669 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:42,520 that the judge in that case got a fair process which is what we wanted. She got due process 670 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:47,960 which everybody's entitled to. That case is now on appeal. I'm not sure how it's going to come out. 671 00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:54,040 But I do have great confidence in our judicial system. Judge Lazar, did the jury make the right 672 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:58,280 decision? And I'll say I'm not going to comment on whether they did or didn't. And I will also say 673 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:04,520 that I also have presided over a lot of jury trials. And I will say as opposed to my opponent 674 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:09,640 who was in the criminal rotation, I was in civil criminal juvenile mental commitments. 675 00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:14,760 And I presided over trials in all of them in my seven years as opposed to my opponents two years. 676 00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:20,840 And I will tell you that in almost every case that I had when you gave that case to the jury, 677 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:27,080 they did their job. They tried hard. They did a good job. And I respect juries 100%. 678 00:49:27,480 --> 00:49:31,080 And a quick follow up. Do you think the FBI should have arrested Judge Dugan in the first place? 679 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:34,280 There's no comment on that whatsoever. That case is still pending. 680 00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:42,440 I have been concerned about how the federal government has gone after judges. We just heard 681 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:49,400 it recently. Judges have been threatened with impeachment when the executive doesn't like 682 00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:54,760 the decisions that they make. I think there's been a real attack on the independence of judges. 683 00:49:55,480 --> 00:50:00,600 I am fiercely independent. I will resist any overreach the federal government 684 00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:06,600 that tries to interfere in the independence of our state. So that is a real issue. There 685 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:13,720 has been threats to judges. There's been rhetoric that I don't like. Judges are just trying to do 686 00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:19,720 their job. So I think the manner in which Judge Dugan was arrested created a spectacle. And it 687 00:50:19,720 --> 00:50:24,040 didn't need to happen that way. And that was concerning. Do you have any concerns about federal 688 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:29,480 overreach? And I do have concerns I would say with respect to the safety and security of judges. 689 00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:36,360 I also do not like when we have politicians on any side making insulting comments to the 690 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:43,400 independence or decisions made by judges. We all try so hard to get everything right. 691 00:50:43,400 --> 00:50:49,320 A judge's life is difficult and it does not help when you have politicians or anyone else 692 00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:55,640 insulting judges. Judges are under significant threats. And I've actually spoken on that 693 00:50:55,640 --> 00:51:01,000 behalf in front of our state legislator later to try to get the judicial security package done. 694 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:06,680 And I think it's so key and important to the independence of that third branch of our government. 695 00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:11,320 Let's move on to Marcia's law. It will continue to impact our courts. Wisconsin voters approved 696 00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:16,600 the constitutional amendment with about 75% of the vote. The goal was to expand and strengthen 697 00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,520 the rights of crime victims. Judge Taylor, you voted against Marcia's law twice in the 698 00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:28,440 legislature. Why? I have worked my entire life for victims of domestic violence in sexual assault. 699 00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:34,680 Starting when I was in college, I worked for a domestic violence advocacy group. In law school, 700 00:51:34,680 --> 00:51:41,560 I facilitated a support group for survivors of sexual assault. At Planned Parenthood, 701 00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:46,920 I worked to make sure sexual assault victims got access to emergency contraception 702 00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:52,520 in the hospital emergency rooms to prevent pregnancy. And in the legislature, I worked on 703 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:59,320 several really important pieces of legislation to protect victims of domestic violence. Now, 704 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:06,360 in this particular case, many of the advocacy, the domestic violence advocacy groups that I 705 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:13,800 had worked with had real concerns with the bill. It was not funded. And they were concerned that 706 00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:19,880 it would slow down justice for individuals who opted to participate in the judicial system. 707 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:26,520 Now, as it did pass, I respect that. I respect the will of the voters. I implemented it as a 708 00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:32,840 circuit court judge. I treated every person who came into the courtroom with dignity and respect. 709 00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:41,400 In fact, I still get letters from victims who are very grateful for how they were treated and 710 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:46,680 considered in the courtroom. So I treat everybody. Given that, do you regret your votes? No, 711 00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:54,120 I don't regret the vote. I think at the time, it was the right vote. I was a legislator who did 712 00:52:54,680 --> 00:53:00,200 a lot of research. And everyone who I worked with in the legislature will probably tell you that. 713 00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:04,920 I didn't just vote because everybody was voting. I really wanted to do the right thing. 714 00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:10,440 And when I heard concerns from the very people, the domestic violence advocates I had worked with 715 00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:15,800 in so many different capacities, that caused me to hesitate. Judge Lazar, critics have challenged 716 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,400 the wording on the ballot is unclear and insufficient. The court, though, in a 6 to 1 717 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,960 really disagreed with that. It has led to some questions, including new debates about what 718 00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:29,080 information should be made public and when. Are there any negative unintended consequences 719 00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:34,920 to Marcy's law? Well, I think first of all, my opponent didn't really explain that she did vote 720 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:39,640 against it. And it was something that should not have been done. It is a very good, strong law. 721 00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:44,440 There are some issues that still, when a law is passed, there are a lot of things that work 722 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:49,960 their way through the courts. And there are a lot of issues that don't sometimes have the proper 723 00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:55,400 perspective when they're drafted. It's not like we have lawyers in our legislature drafting most 724 00:53:55,480 --> 00:54:00,440 of these bills. There are some issues that have come up in my practice with Marcy's law. I was 725 00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:05,800 on committees for victims' rights before it was passed during that time. And then I implemented it 726 00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:11,320 as presiding judge and criminal. So I think there are some points that will have to be addressed. 727 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:18,520 But overall, it has been astonishingly effective and important and a necessary thing that we give 728 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:24,520 to our victims who are suffering through the crime itself and that a judicial system that 729 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,680 doesn't respect them and give them the dignity that they're entitled to. 730 00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:33,560 We are coming up close to the top of the hours. So we're going to wrap things up here shortly. 731 00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:38,120 I do want to ask about fundraising though. WIS Politics is tally the latest spending in the race, 732 00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:43,800 nearly $8 million in support of Judge Taylor and nearly $1 million in support of Judge Lazar. Far 733 00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:50,040 cry from the $115 million in last year's Supreme Court race. Judge Lazar, conservative groups spent 734 00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:54,120 tens of millions last year to help Brad Schimmel, but haven't done the same with you. 735 00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:58,280 Is it because they don't think you can win or because you've said you're not a Republican? 736 00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:04,840 Well, one, I can win. I will win. And two, the reason why is I'm running not as a conservative. 737 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:09,160 I've never been a member of a party. So I'm not a Republican and I'm running as an independent. 738 00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:14,200 And I think that's the key here. I'm getting support and a big momentum and groundswell from 739 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:19,880 people in this state who are tired of seeing the politicization of our state Supreme Court. 740 00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:25,640 And they actually want a candidate who cares about the law and not just causes or political 741 00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:29,480 parties. Judge Taylor, millions, including from liberal donors, have still been spent to back 742 00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:34,280 your campaign. Is it because you still say that you are a Democrat or they've been assured on how 743 00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:42,600 you will vote? I'm not a member of the Democratic Party. I am really proud of the incredible grassroots 744 00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:48,760 support that I've received throughout the state of Wisconsin. Tens of thousands of Wisconsinites 745 00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:55,080 have become part of this campaign in small contributions. As I said, my average contribution 746 00:55:55,080 --> 00:56:01,160 is less than a hundred dollars. So that's exciting. That's democracy. That's what I love 747 00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:07,720 about running. That's what I've really enjoyed about this election. I'm certainly very glad 748 00:56:07,720 --> 00:56:13,720 to see that we didn't have Elon Musk come back to our state and try to buy a seat on our state 749 00:56:13,720 --> 00:56:18,760 Supreme Court. I was very proud of the people of the state when they stood up and rejected that. 750 00:56:19,720 --> 00:56:25,000 But I'm proud. I'm running a really strong grassroots campaign and there's nothing more 751 00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:30,280 important to me. And I do have to add one thing. My poet filled out the FCC paperwork indicating 752 00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:35,400 that she still is a Democrat to this day. I filled it out saying that I am independent. 753 00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,240 We are nearing the end and you're closing statements. We're going to try to get two quick lightning 754 00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:43,640 round questions. First, what U.S. Supreme Court justice current or former would you have dinner 755 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:48,040 with? Judge Lewis? I would have dinner with Scalia and Ginsburg because Ruth Bader Ginsburg 756 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:53,640 because I think they would be fabulous together. Judge Taylor. I would agree on Ruth Bader Ginsburg 757 00:56:55,000 --> 00:57:02,360 and I would love to have dinner with Alina Kagan. I think she is really interesting. And if you 758 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,920 started and hosted a podcast, what would it be called? Judge Taylor. 759 00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:12,360 Uh, rights for all. I think I would have to have it be something more interesting like 760 00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:19,080 the best of Wisconsin. It is now time for closing statements. We made it. We flipped a 761 00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:24,120 coin to determine the order. Each candidate will have one minute for their final thoughts. 762 00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:31,000 We'll begin with Judge Taylor. Well, thank you so much to WISN. It's been such a joy to be here 763 00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:37,720 and thank you so much to the viewers. I hope that the viewers saw a huge difference 764 00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:44,120 between myself and my opponent. I have worked my entire 30-year legal career 765 00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:49,720 to protect the rights and freedoms of Wisconsinites and to make sure that everybody 766 00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:57,560 gets equal justice under the law. I have worked to move our state forward. My opponent has spent 767 00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:05,240 her legal career taking away our rights and prioritizing corporate interests and 768 00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:11,800 right-wing special interests. But this election is not about me and it's not about her. It's about 769 00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:17,720 you. I've traveled around the state of Wisconsin for the last 11 months. You have told me that 770 00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:23,800 you want a justice that's going to prioritize you and stand up for your rights rather than 771 00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:31,320 most powerful. That is what I will do as your Supreme Court Justice. I will be a justice 772 00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:36,360 for the people of Wisconsin. Thank you so much. And now Judge Lizoff. Thank you. Thank you, 773 00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:40,920 Jared and Matt, for having me. And thank you to everyone for watching this debate tonight, 774 00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:46,040 even though it was a little late. And I will tell you that this debate has made it very clear 775 00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:51,640 that the choice and what happens in this election could not be more important for our state and 776 00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:58,760 the future of our courts. In this race, you have on one side, we cannot risk putting 10 years 777 00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:04,520 on allowing a judicial activist to be on this court who will not use and follow the law, 778 00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:10,840 but will act and follow her causes, her agenda, and put those above everything else. That is 779 00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:17,560 what a legislator does. I have spent my entire judicial and legal career 12 years on the bench 780 00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:23,000 protecting the rights of people of the state. When the powerless challenge the powerful in my 781 00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:28,840 court, I listen to them and I decide the case solely based on the law and the facts. That is 782 00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:34,680 what a judge does. I will be your independent justice. I will, for the next 10 years, stand up 783 00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:40,360 for the Constitution, Wisconsin, and the rights. So I'm asking you to vote for me, Judge Maria Lazar 784 00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:45,560 on April 7th. Thank you so very much. Well, after two delays, we are five days from 785 00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:51,480 our election day. Our sincere thanks to both of you, the candidates for your time and for being 786 00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:56,760 here tonight and shuffling your schedules along with the campaigns to make this rescheduled 787 00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:01,320 debate work. And thank you to everyone at home for watching this evening. If you missed any 788 01:00:01,320 --> 01:00:05,960 part of this debate, it will be available on the 12 News app, YouTube, and streaming on Very 789 01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:11,640 Local. You can also look for post-debate analysis Sunday on up front. A reminder election day is 790 01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:14,840 Tuesday. Thank you so much for being with us. Have a good night. 791 01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:22,120 Thank you. Thank you very much. 792 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:46,440 I thought I would feel out of place. Then I met some guys who were going through the same 793 01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:56,040 I was. I thought it was Justin Madison. Then I joined from lacrosse. I thought support was 794 01:00:56,040 --> 01:01:02,040 just for someone with cancer. And then I realized it's so much more. 795 01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:12,680 From all across the globe to right here at home, there's only one network. At one news 796 01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:18,760 team, you can trust 27 news asking the questions you're asking and telling the stories that matter 797 01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:24,440 to you always digging deeper covering the nation and covering your community each and every day 798 01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:29,480 with more depth and detail and more live and local coverage. World News tonight with David 799 01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:41,560 New York. We've got you covered. We've got you covered at 27 news. It's not just a slogan. 800 01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:47,000 It's who we are. It means a commitment to finding the stories that matter to you, 801 01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:52,760 keeping you not just informed but prepared with the most accurate information everywhere you go, 802 01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:57,400 bringing you coverage from your community, your state, and from across the globe. 803 01:01:58,280 --> 01:02:01,960 Good evening. I'm Braden Taylor and I'm Amber Nagle. Tonight we've got you covered with 804 01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:09,560 the developing story out of Madison of 27 news. We've got you hitting the art of smart comedy, starting now. 805 01:02:27,400 --> 01:02:36,200 Thanks a lot, Martin. We'll just wait here. Why? It's your hate. Allen's office. Why? 806 01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:41,480 Well, it's decorated so much better than ours. Well, even the man's room was decorated better 807 01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:47,720 than our office. Hey, how'd you know that? No wonder Washington told me. 808 01:02:49,480 --> 01:02:53,560 Even the idea what Allen wants to see is about? Milton's sick. Hey, what are they going to eat 809 01:02:53,560 --> 01:02:57,720 meetings sometime when I'm not having a snack? There is no such time. 810 01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:03,880 Rock. What are they doing here? We're praying bridge. We were just waiting for the dummy. 811 01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:09,400 I thought Allen was going to see us. But he doesn't want to see you all. 812 01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:15,560 You all? Even when a southern dialect? Who does he want to see? You, Rob. Me? Only you. 813 01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:19,640 Only, Rob. You mean to say that I had a rush up here and let my hot chocolate get cold? 814 01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:23,480 No, I'm sorry if I didn't make myself clear. The only thing that's clear is the top of your head. 815 01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:31,400 Each of Donut Downberg will see you later. Oh, hi. Oh, hi. Hey, it's nice to see you. 816 01:03:31,400 --> 01:03:36,280 What are they doing here? They're just leaving. Good. We just walked Rob up for a little protection. 817 01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:40,200 Oh, wonderful. Yeah, that bucket's been going on around the water cooler. Oh, yeah, very funny. 818 01:03:40,200 --> 01:03:42,920 Thank you. Don't put that in the show, though. See you around. Bye. Bye. 819 01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:48,920 Mel, do I speak a far line with you? Oh, no. Shut up, Mel. Yes, sir. Can't you understand me? 820 01:03:48,920 --> 01:03:53,240 I said I wanted to see Rob. That is Rob. I am Alan. You are Mel. This is a door. Use it. 821 01:03:53,240 --> 01:03:56,680 Oh, but I forgot your shirt, Mel. Yes, sir. Come here. Get out of here. 822 01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:01,320 What do you want to see, Mel? Just a minute, Rob. 823 01:04:05,480 --> 01:04:10,600 Rob, it's the only one I can turn to. You've got to help me. What is it, Alan? Rob. 824 01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:13,960 I want you to save my life. 825 01:04:19,480 --> 01:04:24,920 I'm laughter to make it here. Laverne and Shirley, weekdays at 2.30 p.m. Eastern. 826 01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:30,920 Javi, finally, for my bad coffee habit, healthy. This is my secret weapon. Most protein drinks are 827 01:04:30,920 --> 01:04:36,120 super chalky, but this one is so smooth, creamy and delicious. I love it. Most ice coffees have 828 01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:41,800 more sugar than a slice of cake and zero benefit. 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Do not miss this limited time offer. Try Javi now. Save your life out. What are you 837 01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:34,920 talking about, Rob? There's a bomb in this office right here. It's a play. No, it's a bomb. 838 01:05:36,440 --> 01:05:41,160 Maybe fed by Harper Worthington. You ate his new play. Yeah, I'm supposed to do it on Broadway. 839 01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:45,880 Yeah, I read that. Congratulations. For what? Well, Yates is a Pulitzer Prize-winning playwright. 840 01:05:45,880 --> 01:05:52,280 Well, he wrote a Pulitzer Prize-winning bomb there. You know how I feel about Broadway. I always wanted 841 01:05:52,280 --> 01:05:57,080 to make it big on Broadway. And when Harper Worthington Yates asks you to do a play, you just do it. 842 01:05:57,080 --> 01:05:59,800 You know, I'm thinking of maybe not even wearing my hair in this part. 843 01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:05,560 Yeah, they convinced me that great art doesn't need hair. Well, I guess so. It Picasso's ball. 844 01:06:06,440 --> 01:06:11,320 I kill you. He was bald, too. You see, that's what I mean, Rob. You've got a sense of humor. 845 01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:15,320 Come on. You've got to fix this, Rob. Well, me, fix Harper Worthington Yates? 846 01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:19,480 Well, I may have exaggerated a little when I said it wasn't, you know, all funny. He's given me 847 01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:23,960 some laughs. There are a couple of he-he's, a couple of hah-hah's, some ho-hos, but there are no big... 848 01:06:26,520 --> 01:06:29,960 You want me to put it in the hu-hah? Yeah, well, there are places that are supposed to have this 849 01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:35,000 but listen to this dialogue here. Yeah, I say to my brother here, you're a ruthless kid. You may 850 01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:39,400 get to the top and be rich, but you'll be a Machiavellian heir. Now, what's that supposed to mean? 851 01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:43,800 Well, Machiavell, he was an Italian author and states when he was supposed to be a scrupy 852 01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:47,320 of this, so they're probably refers to it. Yeah, well, I know what it means and you know what it means, 853 01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:50,440 but who's going to tell the audience? What do we give out pamphlets to explain the jokes? 854 01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:54,600 It is, that's a terror. Oh, I don't care about that. It's just too highbrow. 855 01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:01,880 You know what I like. So you can fix it. Now, look, I've marked some spots here that need fixing. 856 01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:04,760 Well, wait a minute. How does Mr. Yates feel about mind tampering with his script? 857 01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,560 Now, look, it's already Friday and I've got to be a Westport for the weekend for rehearsals. 858 01:07:07,560 --> 01:07:09,560 Now, you can get started on us and give me some patience Monday. 859 01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:11,160 How would he mind if a complete stranger? 860 01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:13,880 Now, you see, right here at the end, the first act curtain needs a big laugh there. 861 01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:17,480 Alan, wait just a second. Yates doesn't know. Well, no. 862 01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:23,400 Oh, Rob, it's hard to tell a writer that a stuff isn't funny. 863 01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:25,080 You tell me that would be weak. Oh, you're a... 864 01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:30,760 You're a television writer. Oh, no, fancy. You know what I mean? We love each other. 865 01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:34,360 You know how playwrights are, but the thing is he will know the lines are changed. 866 01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:38,360 Sure, but I'll memorize what you write and I'll throw it into a rehearsal to think I'm Ed Liben. 867 01:07:38,360 --> 01:07:40,920 Now, you can't tell anybody, buddy, Sally or anybody. 868 01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:43,720 Look, I'm very flattered that you think I can approve, Mr. Yates' script, 869 01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:45,560 but he doesn't know that I'm working on it. 870 01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:49,080 Hey, it's done all the time, Rob. I'm desperate. You've got to do this, mate. 871 01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:52,360 Rob, I want this so bad I can feel it inside. 872 01:07:52,360 --> 01:07:55,320 You know, Rob, you've got my guts and your hands. 873 01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:56,120 My hands? 874 01:07:59,560 --> 01:07:59,960 This...