go very shortly here.
Shut it down.
That's what the Village of Allewe is saying
about the maximum security Green Bay
correctional institution.
The more than 100-year-old prison
is more than 200 inmates over capacity
and had been on extended lockdown
due to staff shortages.
The crumbling condition of the facility
is described as deplorable.
Village President Jim Rafter says the time is now
with the search on for a new correction secretary
to deal with the closure.
He says, quote, anything short of that step
would be nothing more than rearranging
the deck chairs on the Titanic.
He joins us now.
And thanks very much for being here.
Thanks for having me, Frederica.
So that is strong language.
It's that bad?
That's what I'm told.
As you said, it's 125-year-old facility
and it's falling apart.
And there's nothing good about the facility today.
So why close the prison altogether rather than fix it?
Great question.
First of all, it's 125-years-old.
And in 2009, there have been two studies
on the correction system and specifically GBCI.
In 2009, a median hunt study went through the facility
and recommended its closure because it needed hundreds
of millions of dollars in upgrades just to get up to code.
It's surely not designed by today's standards for prison
to help with reform and to provide the services
and programs needed to help these folks get back
onto the street.
In 2020, or in 2018, the State Commissioned another study
and that was by BWBR.
It was published in 2020 and it said the exact same thing,
except there was a lot more money needed because of the dollars.
So describe what you know conditions to be like inside
because of the nature of this prison and its age.
Well, according to the design, well, with the design,
today, you're supposed to have sunlight.
You're supposed to be able to live in pods
where those who are incarcerated can get to the outside,
to get to school, get to the library and live more
in a communal environment versus a cell.
The cells at GBCI, the prison was designed for approximately 750 inmates
and today it houses almost a thousand.
They are in cells that were designed for one person
but now there are two people in them and there are the cells
you can reach across and lay down and touch all the walls.
So it's not designed for the people that are there.
It is dark and dingy.
It has mice infestations, which the state has been dealing with
for over a year.
The attitude or the anxiety level within the facility
is being on lockdown, as you mentioned, since June of 2023.
It's creating an awful lot of anxiety and a lot of, I'll say violence.
In 2023, the number of investigations for violent offenses
that take place in GBCI,
almost equaled that of 2021 and 2022 combined
and they are on lockdown for half the year.
So the conditions just aren't good.
Have your calls to close Green Bay Correctional fallen on deaf ears?
No.
We have gained bipartisan support from state legislators,
county elected leaders, local municipality leaders across northeast Wisconsin.
I have never heard anyone say no, they don't want to close it.
The challenge is agreeing on what to do after they close it.
Right, because where would those inmates go from Green Bay?
Other max security prisons themselves are over capacity
and have their own safety issues.
Right, the options that I've heard, I know the governor wants to reduce the prison population
and hopefully move people out of places like GBCI and into other facilities.
That may be an opportunity.
There are those who are calling to have a new prison, a replacement prison,
most likely for GBCI and potentially WAPON to be able to provide
so that they can provide the services and programs needed by those who are incarcerated.
So those are pretty much the two opportunities I've heard.
I do know that if a new prison was to be built,
people in Brown County or the county board has said they want to have a prison in their jurisdiction.
Kiwani County has said they want that.
I've heard north southeast Wisconsin would want one.
So there's an opportunity to do the right thing.
The challenge is no one's talking to each other.
We're trying.
We're getting people to agree, but down in Madison,
we haven't been able to get people to talk to each other.
And so that's why you say at this point with the governor looking for a new correction secretary,
this might be the time now to talk about the Green Bay Correctional Institution,
Jim Rafter, from L.A.
Thanks very much.
Thank you very much.
It sounds horrible.
The conditions of that prison.
Have you been inside lately or ever?
I've been inside four times over the last eight years.
I went and it's funny.
I've been in without the governor and I've toured it with the governor and secretary car.
And when I go in there.
You really don't see a lot of programs going on because they just don't.
Do the programming very much anymore.
People can't get education. They can't get health services.
But when the governor comes in.
It is like the Taj Mahal people are lined up in the corridors,
welcoming and shaking his hand.
And when I toured it with him.
He asked, we're in the psych ward area and he asked how many people need psychological services.
And the answer was about 60%. So it's about 600 people.
Wow.
And he said, how many beds do we have? And they said 13.
Yeah.
And then he asked, what do we do for the others? And they shrug their shoulders.
They do what they can.
But basically the mental health needs across our correction system.
I've learned an awful lot over the last eight years about this.
It's tremendous.
You basically have three populations. Those who are mentally ill and need help.
Those who have made terrible mistakes in life and will not reform.
And then you have a group of those who have made terrible mistakes.
But are willing able and interested in learning how to come back in the society safely.
And we need to have the programs in our state to be able to do that.
We don't today.
This is certainly worth a larger inquiry on our part and others.
But we appreciate your time on this and insight.
I thank you.
Thank you.
If you ever need anything, let me know.
Good deal. Thank you. Nice to talk with you.
Okay.
Take care, Frederica.