Feel free to tell them there's no prompter rolling.
We need prompter?
Yeah.
We need prompter, yeah.
We need prompter.
Do you know which one you're looking at?
It's Shawn in two or three.
I think he has something to do, right?
Yeah.
Go ahead.
You can raise it up a little bit.
Right there.
Just kind of hold the base and pull it up and it came up for me.
I mean, just pull the arm up.
You're much stronger than us, apparently.
I also couldn't do that.
You're that a willy that wouldn't break these down?
Put your hand in there and pull that arm up like so.
Just like that?
Does that work?
Thank you.
Okay.
Also, will I be like turning to talk to you during the experience?
Yeah, you will.
You just kind of got to remember where that is and when you turn it and talk to Zach,
just kind of like keep your, just, that's like a magnet that's drawing you in a little bit.
Okay.
That seems like a potential learning curve.
Yeah, essentially, other than the opening clothes, we're never really addressing camera.
Yeah, I guess, right?
Well, you are rich, but...
I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna not address the camera.
Reminds me of the story.
I like that.
This is my classic pose.
Rich, when we go to you, I think you should have your back to us and then you just slowly spin in your chair.
And you should have like a mustache that you wear sometimes, but not always.
Yeah.
Every time you spin there, it's done.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna do that spin move.
You can with three and get ready to read copy.
All right.
Thank you.
I can give you a cue as well.
Yeah.
Okay.
All right.
Think if you kick your feet out, they can see your shoes too.
There you go.
Let's see.
I'll have a clay on them.
Do you have any red heels or anything?
That would be cool.
The real desire had like model blue.
It was really interesting.
She was a little disappointed that couldn't see her shoes in the shot.
Yeah.
I only ever wear black from head to toe.
Stand by.
I'll give you an open.
Today on Wisconsin Politics Weekly, Wisconsin leaders react to the shooting in Minneapolis.
A presidential endorsement shakes up the governor's race.
And top leaders in Wisconsin state government hint that they're open to some kind of deal
on lowering property taxes.
Maybe.
On WPR, Capitol Bureau Chief Sean Johnson joining me today to talk about these issues are PBS Wisconsin
Political Reporters, Zach Schultz, WPR Capitol reporter Anya Van Wechtendank and WPR
reporter Rich Kramer.
Hey, everyone.
Hey, Sean.
So let's start the conversation with the news that has just been front and center everywhere
this week in Wisconsin and nationally.
The shooting of Alex Pretty in Minneapolis.
We've heard everyone from the president to protesters react to this.
Anya, I want to hear what our local leaders and candidates are saying in Wisconsin.
What have we heard them say about what happened in Minneapolis and where we go from here?
Yeah.
The one sort of unifying word that's been used is tragedy.
Both sides are describing the event as tragic, but Republicans have really by and large been
placing the blame at the feet of Democratic leaders in Minnesota and Minneapolis.
And so Ron Johnson, for example, he appeared on Wisconsin today earlier this week.
And he really kept saying that the issues were created by Democratic presidents, immigration
issues were created by them, exacerbated by Democratic leaders.
By contrast, Tammy Baldwin, our other US senator, took to the floor of the Senate to
read comments about Alex Pretty's life.
He was, of course, a Wisconsin native and really condemned this action.
And then on the gubernatorial trail, all seven Democratic candidates have in some way denounced
I several of them have called for the disbanding of the agency.
Then at the other end of that, you have Tom Tiffany, who is at this point, as of just a
couple of days ago, the only Republican left in the race for governor.
And he spoke at an event here in Madison on Monday.
And I asked him, have you seen the video of this event?
And he was caught kind of off guard and sort of hedged it a little bit.
Another reporter followed up, well, did you watch it or no?
And he said, no, I did not.
So what are we to make of that?
I mean, that's the response that got everybody's attention was kind of his lack of a response.
You know, I think that he has to really kind of thread this needle, right?
He comes from, he's currently a sitting US Congress person in a conservative district
up north, but he is running for governor in a purple state.
And so that means that he has to appeal to a kind of wider audience.
And so I think we saw him try to thread the needle and maybe not quite know how to do
that in that moment.
Rich, we also heard from the president in reaction to this shooting in no uncertain terms that
you can't bring guns to protest, he said.
You heard similar comments from members of his administration.
You talked to a number of second amendment advocates here in Wisconsin, gun rights advocates
in a state where guns are a big deal.
What were they telling you?
I'd say the overall theme that I heard from them is that those comments that a person
can't bring a firearm to a protest are just not true.
That the constitution guarantees a person's right to bear arms.
That's the second amendment.
And that they just shouldn't be saying that, but that's essentially where the unity ended.
There were some different interpretations that I heard about maybe what the administration
was trying to say, that maybe that they were focusing on safety and taking into account
that each state has its own laws with regard to guns.
So they were kind of doing a blanket statement.
Others were just outright opposed to what they were saying and said it's just not tethered
to law or the constitution or anything like that.
I also talked with a gentleman named Dan Markon.
He owns a gun range near Eau Claire.
He's been an instructor for concealed carry classes for 10 years.
And he gave me a scenario where he lives in the neighborhood, let's say, and he's walking
down the street.
There's a protest.
He said he carries his pistol all the time.
He's licensed.
And he said, I'm not supposed to have it.
If there's a protest, he used some colorful language to describe that idea to me.
So there's a lot of candor there in terms of their critiques of the president that you
don't normally hear.
Have you heard that same kind of commentary from anybody who's elected in Wisconsin?
The Republican Party has really aligned itself with gun rights over the years and the NRA.
Have you heard anybody who's elected saying similar things here?
I certainly haven't.
And maybe the others on the panel had different experiences.
We've heard radio silence from social media from all the Republicans.
So that's a big statement all by itself.
If they're not commenting and going back to what you're talking about, Tom Tiffany,
I think that needle, we've seen that from Republicans in Washington for a decade now
with Donald Trump, where anything that they don't want to have to respond to, they haven't
seen.
You can take him out his word or not in his word, whether he actually did not see or did
see the video.
But he certainly is aware of the protest because Tom Tiffany's been tweeting and commenting
about it repeatedly.
As for elected officials, I interviewed Maria Lazar, who was a Supreme Court candidate.
She is an appellate court judge.
And I asked her about Cash Patel, the FBI director, whom they made the first set of
statements on air about, you can't bring a loaded firearm to a protest.
And she kind of hedged a little bit saying, well, I'm not really an expert in Minnesota
law, but since they have concealed carry, I kind of doubt that under the Second Amendment,
which surprised me because to me, it seems pretty clear.
We don't need to go beyond our own highs when it comes to all the video we've seen of
protests over the years.
Think back to COVID.
Think back to January 6, 2021 at the U.S. Capitol.
I mean, there have been guns at protests for years and years and people have been asserting
and claiming this right.
And this is the first time that anyone at that, especially from the Republicans, has
said that you don't have that right.
And if that's the case, then it really is incongruous with what their supporters have
been acting on for a long, long time.
So one thing we did here, Congressman Tiffany and other Republicans talk about this week
was President Trump's endorsements in Wisconsin's governor's race.
When we say this, you know, every election cycle, like, there's nothing more powerful
in today's Republican politics than an endorsement from President Donald Trump.
I think there'd been kind of an open question about whether he would jump in this time.
He did.
He endorsed Tom Tiffany.
Talk about a quick reaction to what happened, Zach.
I mean, what unfolded after that?
Well, his only primary candidate opponent, Josh Schulman, Washington County exec, dropped
out immediately, pretty much.
And what's interesting is I interviewed both Tiffany and Schulman back in December, and
I asked them about what impact Donald Trump would have on their primary.
And Schulman at that time said, well, of course I would love his endorsement, but otherwise
I hope he doesn't endorse.
His goal was to take this primary as far as he could to show that he was a legitimate
challenger in the eyes of Republican voters against Tom Tiffany, who has more money, more
name, recognition, closer relationship with President Trump, having, you know, been a
member of Congress and supported him at that level with his votes for a long, long time.
So clearly, Schulman knew that an early Trump endorsement was pretty much going to end
his campaign, and he made that clear when he dropped out the next day.
So, Rich, I know one thing you were kind of keeping an eye on was whether it would be
another Republican jump into the race, you know, somebody like Tim Michaels, who we know
Donald Trump likes and who can sell fun, you know, whether they would jump in.
This kind of says, no, that's not going to happen, right?
Yeah, it certainly seems like we're down to one for the Republican primary, essentially,
and that gives Republicans an advantage in some ways.
They don't have to pay a lot of money in a messy primary.
They don't have to carry that baggage into a general election.
But at the same time, Democrats now have their target.
They kind of were acting like that.
Tiffany was the target anyway, but now that's it.
So I guess anything could happen, but at this point, it seems like we've got our Republican
candidate for the gubernatorial campaign.
And now we have to have that debate.
We have every election cycle, too.
Do you want to have a big primary or don't you?
And I think this time, Republicans are going to be the ones saying, no, we're glad we
don't have a primary to deal with, because those have kind of bitten them in recent
years.
You just look back at 2022 and the primary between Tim Michaels and Rebecca Clayfish was
very bruising.
Tim Michaels did not win that general election.
You have a big primary among Democrats, about seven candidates give or take.
I imagine though, they are saying, hey, that's actually good for us.
We're going to dominate this news cycle.
But what are you hearing from them in terms of how they view the race now?
Has it changed anything, really?
Well, there's nobody in the Democratic field who has that level of name recognition as
Tom Tiffany.
There's not, for example, another Congress person or somebody with that level.
And so a lot of Democratic candidates are still just trying to register outside of whatever
their current lane is, whether it's that they're currently a state representative, they need
to register more broadly across the state, or they are a former lieutenant governor who's
trying to kind of build back up his profile, or a current lieutenant governor is trying
to build her profile.
So there's nobody who really kind of has that momentum behind them, such as it is.
And so I think we're going to see just a very different type of primary race among Democrats
because it's not just about being able to sell yourself to voters.
It's also about being able to stand out in what is basically a field that has pretty shared
values.
There's people further to the left and further to the center, but they really are Wisconsin
Democrats, and there's a lot of shared values there.
So how do you kind of emerge and make enough of a splash to carry you through to November?
And it will be interesting to see if this has similarities to the Democratic Senate primary
for Senate when Mandela Barnes came out ahead, because his opponents at that time in the
Democratic lane all dropped out essentially before the primary, saying our only option
at that point was to go negative.
And so I think what will be interesting to watch among these Democrats is which ones
are holding themselves above the fray and focusing exclusively on Tom Tiffany as someone
like Mandela Barnes as from the start, or someone who's maybe, like you said, trying
to gain a little more name recognition outside of their lane.
Do they start taking shots at their own field, or do they focus all of their fire collectively
at Tom Tiffany?
And that will determine whether a primary is helpful or unhelpful.
If they come out of it bruised because it turned negative because someone was trying
to win with 23% of the vote in the Democratic primary, then it will leave a bruised candidate
on the other side.
They all focus on Tom Tiffany and made the best candidate win, and some of them graciously
drop out as we saw before.
Then yes, they could have a more cohesive Democratic party with a stronger, more battle-tested
candidate coming out in August.
So I do think that we'll see the field narrow, but I wonder if some of them would look at
that example from the Senate race and say, yeah, they took one for the team and look
where it got them.
Imagine if you're Sarah God-Luski thinking, hey, I could have been Senator if it was
me on that ballot.
You would assume that everyone who runs for office that level thinks they can win the
general election.
That could be a factor in whether or not they decide to bow out this time, and you could
have potentially a race going up to August, especially in this cycle.
We've got a Democratic cycle potentially.
I think every Democrat feels like they want to be the one standing when that's over.
Are they going to have money?
Is a question after every primary?
Are they going to have enough money to deal with Tom Tiffany who doesn't have to worry
about running ads to build up his conservative base?
Yeah, right now the Democratic sort of donor field is divided among seven people.
And we've seen in past election cycles where people run out of money leading up to the
primary election.
I think even Tony Evers started to run out of money before successfully winning his first
gubernatorial campaign.
And so to the extent that they can, if people start moving out, that will also coalesce the
donor base both inside the state and outside, because also, I mean, national attention is
on this governor's race.
And we do have, while this race is going, and it does feel like all of our attention
is on November at this point in some ways, but we have a state legislature that is still
meeting here in Wisconsin.
They could still potentially get things done.
You know, the assemblies, whenever they're meeting, they have like a hundred bills on
the calendar, and they rip through them as you all know.
There are some big outstanding issues there that, I guess, are question marks on whether
they could cut one more bipartisan deal with the Democratic governor.
One thing I wanted to ask you about was property taxes.
Is that one where there could be some kind of deal at this session?
Because we're hearing both Tony Evers and Republican leaders, at least Speaker Robin
Voss say, hey, you know, we're open to something on property taxes, who hear things they could
get it done?
I mean, it sounds like there have been talks in private caucus, and you've even heard sort
of lower-level Republicans alluding to this, you know, maybe speaking a little bit out
of turn and so doing.
And so that gives us a little bit of a sense that there are conversations happening between
at least Robin Voss and Tony Evers.
I'm not sure where things kind of stand on the Senate side of things, but it's also
interesting to hear Republicans talking about using the state surplus for this, because
what they have always said is that the surplus is only for tax returns, essentially.
And so if you say, okay, property tax relief is like kind of in that field of things that
Republicans would approve of using that money for, and Tony Evers can use that fund, because
he's been saying, let's spend on the surplus on all these other priorities that I have.
Maybe that is a place that they say, okay, we have two and a half billion dollars or whatever
to play with.
What's one point three, what is the horse trading that's going to kind of get them both
there?
I don't know.
Zach, what do you think?
Is this something that can happen this year?
Well, we've seen this game before.
As you said, there's been a surplus, pretty much Governor Evers entire time because they
can't agree.
Evers wants spending on education.
Republicans want tax cuts.
This time it almost feels like it's a marriage of the two concepts because Evers is framing
this and Republicans are framing it in relief of Evers so-called 400-year property tax veto,
in which he allows school districts to spend extra per pupil and conveniently both sides
declined to fund that in the last budget.
That was a bipartisan solution to not fund that additional thing, which raised property
tax at the local level because districts need that money and they took it, which saw the
property tax bills go up.
Everyone saw the sticker shock in December and they're feeling it, so this is a solution
there.
What's caused this problem not to be solved in the past is that there's always another
election.
Someone always has the mindset that, if I allow you to get a win, that hurts me.
There's a zero-sum mentality in politics when it comes to elections and there's always
been a fear that if we give you this, then you'll come out looking better than we will
in the end process.
Now, the difference here is Evers is not running for reelection, so he's not the one that would
stand to be able to run on this in the fall, so that gives you an idea why Republicans
might consider this.
If they can pass it, claim they helped solve the property tax issue, but then that leaves
open the question, is there someone in the Senate or is there someone that would want
to spike this bill because they don't want anyone else to get credit for it, or conversely,
do they want to spike this bill because they want that surplus there thinking that maybe
Tom Tiffany is the winner and Republicans control legislature next year and they can
come into office and have all this money to do in the way they spend in the way they want
to spend rather than having to compromise.
Those are always the questions to look at when it comes to motivations.
It's not just about what makes sense now, it's what makes sense in the fall.
Rich, you know, this is a problem for both of them, arguably, I mean, you could argue
that the 400-year veto caused the property tax increase, you could argue that the underfunding
of schools by Republicans caused it.
Does that make them want to come to the table here before Tony Evers leaves office?
Well, I don't know if the blame game makes them want to come back to the table or come
to the table together.
We've seen those arguments you just laid out all over the place.
Republicans, of course, saying, Evers, you caused this shame on you, and then Democrats
are saying that schools have been underfunded, you know, this is a decade-long problem at
the hands of the Republicans.
But I keep thinking about some of the bipartisan examples we've seen.
There was the state budget, where Republicans in the Senate were not all on board with the
proposal, and they used Democratic votes to get around some of those Republican members.
There's all kinds of examples.
Even the press conference with Assembly Speaker Robin Voss and Greta Neubauer regarding funding
for Wisconsin I, the Public Affairs Network, down in Madison.
So just, there's been a few examples of surprises to me, having remembered the earlier
years of, say, the Walker administration and the legislature had total control, Republicans
had control of the legislature, and they just weren't really open to compromise much at
all back then.
Yeah.
I guess we will find out very soon whether compromise is still in the air with, you know,
now a lame duck governor and these particular legislators, or whether it is on to November
for everybody at this point, and that one just kicked to 2027.
That'll do it for today.
Thanks for joining us.
Make sure to follow the show at wpr.org, pbswisconsin.org, on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.
Thank you.
Because that way too, like, if I'm talking to you, then I'm turned away, you know, and
so it doesn't feel like I'm able to include.
I can almost guarantee it's like, I just look weird when I'm in the right, on the stage
of some time.
Can you guys hear me?
Yeah, we can hear you.
Can you hear us?
Yes.
Can you hear us?
I need to stop moving my hands.
Oh, you were good, man.
That was tough.
I don't know.
They told me that the hands get bright if I put them on.
When I was a kid, we went to Disney World, and we saw Michael Jackson's Captain EO in
3D, and the scariest thing was the fingers coming at us, and that's what I kept being
reminded of.
Every time your hands went up to the screen.
We're talking about that yesterday.
I am also a hand-talker, so I, like, put my hands down on the table, like physically.
I did too, but I just caught myself talking with my hands again, and then I also caught
myself waving.
Oh, so my apologies for not having your wrap ready to go.
Oh, it's okay.
We just kind of, yeah, we're winging it.
Would you like to run through your other leads?
Sure.
I mean, if you want, yeah.
If you think it'd be useful, that's kind of what I did it for, just to see if short
or, yeah.
And then do you want to try prompted and unprompted?
So unprompted would be kind of winging it.
Yeah.
Just go prompted.
Yeah.
Once you've done this 50 times, then, like, we can try both.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
Also, I am sorry.
My phone was buzzing to start.
That is, that is my news call alarm that goes off every turn.
Like, editors call, and I'm so sorry about that.
Apparently I couldn't.
I was saying that it was all really good.
But you always say that.
Sometimes say something negative, so we believe you when you say something positive.
I never say nice things.
Okay.
I will believe you.
I did cut that cut.
No.
Don't laugh too much, guys.
I'm not.
It's like you guys are totally professional.
Oh.
Just like that.
I mean, yeah.
I think we expected to maybe have, like, stops and starts and stuff, which guys just went straight into it.
And so, that's a really good sign.
How did that time feel?
You hit it.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, we just went through the first part faster than I was thinking.
Yeah.
We spent more time on the governor's race, which is fine.
And we spent more time on, like, the...
Did property taxes.
Did the script get changed?
I made my notes earlier today, or my bullet points.
And it felt different than, because I didn't mean to start talking about,
it seems like I kind of stumbled over something that you were going to read
in terms of a next question, Sean.
I don't know.
You have to tell me, like, I'll watch it and see.
Yeah.
But I don't notice it at the time.
I wasn't listening to you, man.
I'm kidding.
But probably I was a little bit nervous.
Likewise.
Yeah.
I'm just so used to the way we were going.
Oh, he was wondering if the...
He was wondering if, like, we changed up the script or the order, like, that maybe...
Because...
Yeah.
Could you have more time for something?
Yeah.
Could you have more topics in your back pocket?
Or more questions in your back pocket?
I liked...
I feel like the topics were, like...
We had more to say on each one.
We hit about ten.
I mean, when I heard the ten...
I was thinking, like, oh, they just forgot to give the time cues.
And then ten minutes happened, and I thought, oh, you know?
But I really think it was okay to just talk, like, not having a laundry list of things.
Let us just talk a little bit about the governor's race, which is kind of...
I think we could just talk about the governor's race every week.
A little bit.
I felt like...
I actually felt better as we got to that point.
Yeah.
You know, I felt, okay, loose.
We're talking about...
Yeah, pre-step halfway through.
Like, oh, here we go.
We know how to do this.
Oh, just like at the beginning, I felt like I wanted to not speak for too long because I didn't
want to, like, take up too much time or whatever.
And I feel like as I got a sense of, like, just how things were progressing.
Yeah.
I felt more comfortable just, like, saying everything I wanted to say.
It didn't feel like I was, like, taking up too much.
It is...
It's part of our weekly ritual.
We have, you know, this four-minute segment, so we know.
Come on.
Hurry it up.
So we just have to get on a different clock.
Yeah.
Every week on here and now we end up doing a segment where we've cut stuff out.
Yeah.
With Trent, it is really easy to figure out how long of a bite you're to get exactly the
time.
Yeah.
And so if it helps to just, like, not be so uptight about time, then we can do that.
I'm not personally worried about that.
I think we still want it close to time, though.
Close to time, yeah.
But as long as it...
It might even be easier just to time it out to, like, 15 seconds longer because I felt like
you got the 15 and then you went right to the wrap and if the wrap's not going to air
on Wisconsin today, I think there's more of a risk that we come in five to seven seconds
light than there is if we consistently time out 15 seconds longer, come in seven seconds
light.
Sure.
What's your comfort level with, like, let's say you're talking about something and zax says
something and, I mean, you want to jump in and go, you know, I mean, you just did that a little
bit, but...
I think we'll get about that.
We'll get...
I like that.
We'll get better at it.
You want to ask your question about...
About seating?
Yeah.
So I was thinking that it might make sense for Sean to be in the middle because, like, every
time I was answering him, my back was to Zack and so it was harder to feel like I was including
everyone, whereas I think if I were there, I could be talking to Sean but then, like, signaling
to Zack to pick up or, like, to what you said or to what, you know, like, it feels easier
to adjust her.
Yes, it's tight.
Which we can...
We can't accommodate for, as we're, like, bigger...
Lumber his chair.
But also...
Oh, my God.
For weeks that you're at the Capitol, this will be a double box.
Uh-huh.
And then Rich will be...
Yeah.
So one of the thoughts was, well, then Sean and Zack are just always in the same position
roughly.
And Fred was saying, like, that also might help with comfortability if you're just, like,
this is my spot, you know?
But we can switch it up.
Do you want to, I don't know, try riffing on something, switch it up a little bit?
Like, we can...
That's part of the rehearsal is all about.
Yeah.
We can try something else for a few minutes.
L, do you guys want to try it?
I'm open to trying anything, sure.
Do you want to try Sean in the middle?
Sure.
Yeah.
Yeah, my only...
We can try it, but I think my only concern would be if we're counting him to be a ringleader.
Yeah.
And he's in that position of turning away, then it's harder to signal to Sean.
Hey, I'll go next.
You don't have to answer.
Mm-hmm.
And I think...
I think you can pretend, look, Zach, a little bit, just like even a glance, even if you can't quite see him.
Yeah.
Like...
If you watch some of the playback, most of the time you were talking, you were...
There's two of you in a two shot.
And then otherwise they would come in over here in a three shot.
Uh-huh.
It wasn't as bad as it felt like.
Sure.
And a lot of times what we end up doing staging wise, we're looking past the person anyway,
just because of the camera lines.
So my concern of you being over there and Sean in the middle is Sean's going to do the same thing you do.
Right.
And then when you're done, if, like, Rich or I are signaling, if he's...
But the audience won't know that it feels uncomfortable for you in the middle.
Sure.
That's what I would say, but we can certainly try it.
Okay.
It would just be more work on his part to make sure he's doing the swivel.
What's also...