For the opposing viewpoint, we are now joined by Democratic Congressman Mark Pokken.
Thanks for being here.
So how long would you encourage Senate Democrats to hold out on passage of this continuing resolution?
I think we need to make sure that people understand what's at stake.
And I think people will by November 1st.
You have to.
We'll have the rate increases for the Affordable Care Act for almost everyone's group plans.
And I think that will show what we've been talking about all along, which is 15 million.
People are going to ultimately lose their health insurance because of the big ugly law.
And right now, I had an employer told me just a couple weeks ago that their new increase for next year and insurance is 41%.
And that's because of the uncompensated care created by the Affordable Care Act.
So I think they just need to make sure that Republicans, I know, are getting the calls like we are when it comes to this.
And it's going to only intensify by November 1st when people do get those rates.
So, you know, I would just say, hold tight.
Federal workers who are really being heroes in all this right now, going without paychecks, understand what this fight is about.
But we've got to make sure that people don't lose one of the most important economic, you know, legs to a stool that they have.
So the Trump administration doesn't seem to mind the shutdown.
They're trying to lay off thousands of federal employees.
Trump's building his White House ballroom right now, not worried about any fiscal situation.
What is their incentive to negotiate even after November 1st?
Well, by next week, I think we're going to be about two and a half weeks out from the original seven weeks they had anyway.
We've kind of got to get together and do something because the time he'll run out for even their original kind of arbitrary deadline they did without negotiating to begin with us.
So I think that's what's going to happen.
But, you know, as you pointed out, I mean, Donald Trump, you know, he's using this as an excuse to fire people.
He's already fired 200,000 people either through rifts or outright firings since he's been president, which he doesn't have the authority.
There's been all kinds of lawsuits.
But this has already been happening. That's part of the problem.
If you can't actually have an agreement like we used to in Congress and that somehow the executive branch is going to steal the funds that we've agreed to in a bipartisan way, then you don't really have an agreement.
And that's unfortunately the place that we're at right now.
So, you know, this is really right now about protecting people's health care.
And by the way, all of us are going to pay more for health care because of that law, because of that uncompensated care.
And it'll help everyone in having this fight.
So how long can the government function in shutdown mode?
At what point do things just, they don't, they can't function at all and they shut down?
Yeah.
Places like Wisconsin, you feel it less, right?
I think I was doing a town hall in Derrick Van Ordon's district last week and I asked about 50 people.
I said, who's feeling the impact directly? One person raised their hand out of 50 people.
But that's because we're in Wisconsin. But, you know, if you're trying to get a hold of Social Security, you want to go to a national park.
But now, if you're eligible for SNAP benefits, right, you're going to start feeling it.
So you're going to see more of those things now happen.
I just think by the time next week, I'm going to go back to Washington, even if the House Republicans aren't.
I'm going to show up because that's my job to be there.
But at the same time, we're going to be at two and a half weeks out from their artificial deadline anyway, right?
So at some point, we have to quit holding our breath if you're the House Republicans.
Show up in Washington and let's negotiate.
If not even this, let's negotiate the farm bill that's two years overdue.
Let's do the Older Americans Act authorization that's overdue.
But let's do something just simply taking another week of paid vacation.
Doesn't solve anything.
You talked about the House Republicans and Speaker Mike Johnson refused to square in the newly elected Democrat from Arizona.
Do you think that is related to this discharge petition over the Epstein files or is it simply that there does not in session?
There's no need to come back because there's the government shutdown.
I think it's a lot of things.
I think they think this is leverage to try to bring us back to reopen the government without fixing healthcare.
I think some of it is about the 218th signature in Donald Trump for whatever reason now doesn't want the release of the Epstein files after campaigning and releasing them.
But I've learned I can't predict Republicans anymore, right?
I mean, it's been so, you know, the fact that you just don't even try to come to Washington to do your job to negotiate, whether it be the shutdown, healthcare, farm bill, anything.
You just think you don't have to show up.
That's a weird dynamic that, you know, I've been doing this for a long time in local state and federal government showing up matters.
And, you know, I don't know if I understand their messaging.
I'm not sure they do because they keep changing your messaging.
We're very clear.
We're fighting for the affordability of healthcare so that people don't lose their health insurance and we all don't pay more for it.
And I think that's a fight people understand.
So the midterms are still a year away.
Historically, there's little evidence that government shutdowns this far out from an election impact the election.
Do you think this time could be different?
I really don't know where this is going to end, right?
Are they going to continue it in, because, again, Donald Trump kind of likes parts of this, as you said.
I mean, he's already been acting unilaterally and, unfortunately, the Republican majorities in the House and the Senate have allowed him to do that.
Article 1 of the Constitution gives us the power of the purse, but he's stealing funds that we've approved.
The Constitution gives the power of tariffs to Congress, only emergency tariffs to the President, but he's getting away with it.
So this is anything but normal times.
I think, you know, when you watch the east wing of the Capitol being demolished right now, it's for visual learners to see what he's doing to democracy, right?
He's literally demolishing the institutions that we understand fundamentally, and that's why you had so many people last weekend.
The No Kings rally, 7 million people speaking out.
I just think these are times that are hard for anyone to give you honest predictions.
So, finally, the consumer price index came out today.
It's at 3%. It's an increase year over year.
It's tariffs, right?
Or is there other factors that you would consider in this?
Trump's tariff taxes are absolutely affecting us when you talk to employers, manufacturers.
They can't sell things overseas. You talk to farmers. They're having problems.
We have no orders for soybeans from China this year.
That's a billion dollars to the Wisconsin economy alone.
We're all paying more for groceries, for durable goods.
We're paying more for energy now because of the big ugly law.
We're about to pay more for health care, and sustained has been the increased cost in housing.
But all those things are things that are coming out of our pocketbooks, but the biggest factor that could change any of that would get rid of this kind of irresponsible use of tariffs.
Tariffs can be used wisely if they're targeted, but when you have them on every country at levels that don't come from anywhere, just from your head, it's like a monkey at the zoo when it throws.
It's done. You don't know where it's going to land, but you know it's going to be messy.
That seems to be Trump's tariff policy, but we're all paying for that messiness, and it just needs to stop.
All right. Congressman, Spokane, thanks for your time.
Tarah, thank you.
Quick. Hope you got other things in Madison you're doing.
Oh, yeah, unfortunately.
This morning, for some reason, it's like, so that's why they even drove me over today, so I can get back.