WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:23.600 The 00:23.600 --> 00:28.520 cost of attending University of Wisconsin Schools is going up in the fall. 00:28.520 --> 00:34.740 This month the UW Board of Regents approved a 2% tuition hike for in-state undergraduate 00:34.740 --> 00:39.860 students plus roughly commesurate increases in fees and room and board. 00:39.860 --> 00:48.700 That will put UW Madison at $12,416 on the high end and UW Parkside at $8,851 at the 00:48.700 --> 00:50.280 lowest price point. 00:50.280 --> 00:54.820 It's the fourth tuition increase in a row after a 10-year freeze. 00:54.820 --> 00:59.720 In the midst of increasing cost pressures on families, how reasonable is the tuition 00:59.720 --> 01:00.720 hike? 01:00.720 --> 01:07.020 We're joined by Professor in the UW Madison Department of Education Policy, Taylor O'Dell, and thanks 01:07.020 --> 01:08.020 for being here. 01:08.020 --> 01:09.020 Thanks for having me. 01:09.020 --> 01:15.020 So a 2% tuition hike on paper seems really modest, but at a time as we said when people 01:15.020 --> 01:20.780 question the value of a college degree, does it turn some people away? 01:20.780 --> 01:25.180 I think it's very important to acknowledge that a 2% increase is very real money for 01:25.180 --> 01:26.740 students and families. 01:26.740 --> 01:31.580 I think at the same time we also have to acknowledge that costs are going up for all of us, including 01:31.580 --> 01:35.820 organizations and businesses like the Universities of Wisconsin. 01:35.820 --> 01:41.420 2% is relatively modest and predictable and below the rate of inflation right now. 01:41.420 --> 01:45.380 It doesn't mean it doesn't have important conversations about dollars and cents at the 01:45.380 --> 01:49.100 end of the day, but what students and families should really care about is the net price 01:49.100 --> 01:50.100 of college. 01:50.100 --> 01:54.220 So when you quote that $12,000 or that $8,000, that's what we call the sticker price, what 01:54.220 --> 01:58.620 you see on the website, but from that we know people get grants and scholarships and that 01:58.620 --> 02:02.100 pulls it down to what we call the net price, the check that you have to write at the end 02:02.100 --> 02:04.220 of the day to be able to enroll. 02:04.220 --> 02:08.940 And that number has actually been relatively flat over the last several years because UW 02:08.940 --> 02:13.740 is taking money from these tuition increases and putting it back into financial aid. 02:13.740 --> 02:21.940 It's a 30% decline in highest paying international students and volatile federal research funding. 02:21.940 --> 02:27.300 What is a university to do except use that tuition lever? 02:27.300 --> 02:29.100 That's a great question. 02:29.100 --> 02:33.980 UW, the Universities of Wisconsin have three primary revenue sources, right? 02:33.980 --> 02:38.460 Federal grants, which we are among the top in the nation at securing, we enroll students 02:38.460 --> 02:42.420 who pay tuition and fees and we receive funding from the state. 02:42.420 --> 02:47.140 State support has long stagnated with the exception of a recent increase. 02:47.140 --> 02:51.780 And so tuition dollars are a primary way of raising funds. 02:51.780 --> 02:56.140 With a tuition freeze for many, many years, our ability to do that was hamstrung. 02:56.140 --> 02:59.140 And so it quite literally strangled some of the campuses. 02:59.140 --> 03:03.060 We benefit from having international students and even students from out of state who pay 03:03.060 --> 03:05.500 higher tuition rates because they can afford it. 03:05.500 --> 03:08.180 They are mobile geographic for colleges. 03:08.180 --> 03:11.820 With a decline in international student enrollment, there aren't many other students that we 03:11.820 --> 03:15.820 can look to except for our in-state students, especially now because the state has begun 03:15.820 --> 03:20.700 to increasingly regulate our ability to even draw students from Minnesota and Iowa and 03:20.700 --> 03:22.420 other out-of-state partners. 03:22.420 --> 03:28.100 So how kind of in jeopardy are the finances of the Universities of Wisconsin given all 03:28.100 --> 03:29.100 of these factors? 03:29.100 --> 03:31.660 It's in a very serious position, right? 03:31.660 --> 03:35.300 We've already seen campus closures of many regional campuses. 03:35.300 --> 03:36.980 We've seen cuts to academic programs. 03:36.980 --> 03:40.140 We've seen staff and faculty restructurings. 03:40.140 --> 03:43.260 And so no one wants to raise prices. 03:43.260 --> 03:46.100 If you're a business owner, you don't want to walk out and show your customers raising 03:46.100 --> 03:47.100 prices. 03:47.100 --> 03:48.860 The University doesn't want to do that either. 03:48.860 --> 03:53.300 We want more people to access and have access to a college education, like you said, for 03:53.300 --> 03:55.900 upper social and economic mobility. 03:55.900 --> 04:00.620 But when the state is no longer a primary funding partner, federal research and grants 04:00.620 --> 04:05.860 landscape is certainly uncertain, tuition is one of the only livers left. 04:05.860 --> 04:10.940 So some Republican state policy makers are super angry about this tuition increase saying 04:10.940 --> 04:17.860 it's the fourth in the row after a state budget gave the system $256 million. 04:17.860 --> 04:19.380 What about that persuasion? 04:19.380 --> 04:20.620 Yeah. 04:20.620 --> 04:25.620 I think the average Wisconsinite should also be super angry about that characterization. 04:25.620 --> 04:30.540 So $256 million is a big number and it's a very important investment. 04:30.540 --> 04:32.180 It's however a biennial increase. 04:32.180 --> 04:35.940 So we have to divide that by two because it's going to be the 120 something million 04:35.940 --> 04:36.940 every year. 04:36.940 --> 04:40.300 And just to put that in context, the university leverages. 04:40.300 --> 04:45.980 It's the state's largest public employer and its operating budget is around $7 billion. 04:45.980 --> 04:49.900 And so that increase is less than almost one and a half percent. 04:49.900 --> 04:55.020 So substantially below inflation and more importantly, that $256 million came with a 04:55.020 --> 04:57.740 lot of important caveats. 04:57.740 --> 05:04.980 It's importantly an unfunded salary raise for faculty and staff across the institution. 05:04.980 --> 05:10.300 So no other piece of state government has unfunded mandates in that same way. 05:10.300 --> 05:15.460 So we're required to raise salaries by 2% for all faculty and staff, but the state didn't 05:15.460 --> 05:17.620 put in the money to fully fund that raise. 05:17.620 --> 05:22.260 And so the Regents have said that the tuition increase will predominantly fund faculty 05:22.260 --> 05:24.140 and staff salary increases mandated. 05:24.220 --> 05:30.500 Well, that's another piece that some policymakers are unhappy about because they say the number 05:30.500 --> 05:36.700 of staff has gone up, whereas the number of students has not. 05:36.700 --> 05:41.500 So many people when they think about staff increases on cross campus, we use this federal 05:41.500 --> 05:44.660 survey where we report people in these huge buckets. 05:44.660 --> 05:45.660 Do they teach? 05:45.660 --> 05:46.660 Do they work? 05:46.660 --> 05:48.460 Are they administrative in different ways? 05:48.460 --> 05:51.740 It doesn't capture the granularity of what those staff are actually doing. 05:51.820 --> 05:57.620 So if we hire more students to provide career exploration or oversee internships for students 05:57.620 --> 06:01.540 or help them get placements with employers, those are staff members and those are very 06:01.540 --> 06:02.540 valuable staff members. 06:02.540 --> 06:05.020 I'd be happy to double or triple those numbers. 06:05.020 --> 06:07.540 And so it's a really nuanced conversation, right? 06:07.540 --> 06:09.220 Are there efficiencies to be had? 06:09.220 --> 06:10.220 Of course. 06:10.220 --> 06:14.220 But we need to have better data and a more frank conversation around what staff are 06:14.220 --> 06:15.220 actually increasing. 06:15.220 --> 06:16.220 All right. 06:16.220 --> 06:17.220 Well, we leave it there. 06:17.220 --> 06:18.220 Taylor Oedle. 06:18.220 --> 06:19.220 Thanks very much. 06:19.220 --> 06:20.220 Thanks. 06:20.220 --> 06:30.540 And I'll see you next time.