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Alright, you can talk to me, don't worry about all of this.

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Yeah, sure, it has been short.

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So, I guess, let's go back to the beginning.

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You were born in Montello, right?

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Yes.

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Yep.

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And so, did you grow up fishing?

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Was fishing something passed down to you?

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Yeah, it sure was.

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My dad liked to fish, and that's how I ended up in Montello, because he was from Kenosha,

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and his parents and his grandfather would come up here fishing as tourists, back in the

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1920s and 30s.

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So, he met my mom in Montello, she wasn't as his fish.

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She was 13, and they ended up eventually falling in love, getting married, and then they moved.

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He moved to Montello after World War II, and so my mom was still there.

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Same house on the river, yeah, she's 96, so yeah, it's kind of in my blood.

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So how did she end up, did she work at a resort, or helped out on the boat, or she

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just met him, and he took her off?

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Yeah, well, her dad owned a bait.

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He was locked tender at the locks of the dam there, and then she would always be down

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there helping him, and cleaning his rental boats, and bailing water out of them, because

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they're wooden and leaped, and that's how people shorefished, and that's how she met

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my dad.

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So, she would run around that fish, not just for him, but for other people too.

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Yeah, and I grew up there helping my grandfather then, her dad doing the same stuff.

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Now, was walleye the big thing back then?

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Well, walleyes were a big thing, but it was a big catfish river, it was a pox river, so

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a lot of catfish, croppies, some bass, smallmouth bass especially, and of course, a good number

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of walleyes that would come out of Lake Puckaway, Lake Winnebago system, yeah.

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So, growing up for you was fishing a diversion, or was it like a passion?

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Oh, it was a passion.

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Yeah, I mean, it was every day.

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It was 3 a.m., and before school, it was all weekend, it was all summer.

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Yeah.

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So, then, you were a ton before that, you know, you kind of came into your early life

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and trying to find a job, trying to start a family, and, you know, what was fishing

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at that point?

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Was that like where you wanted to get to?

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Yeah, you know, after high school, I went to college, all that kind of stuff, and got

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drafted, Vietnam War thing going on, and came back, and I worked at a resort when I came

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back.

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Jobs were hard to find anyways, so I thought, well, if I'm going to work for that same amount

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of money, I'll work at a resort, and then I became a fishing guide there.

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So, I really, that helped a lot, and I really enjoyed that, getting people on fish and

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teaching them how to fish, and worked other jobs, did my freelance writing, started to

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do that.

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The freelance writing was really the big stepping stone, because I got to meet people in the

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fishing industry, manufacturers, manufacturers, representatives, that kind of thing, and, of

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course, pro fishermen.

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Excuse me.

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What are they about, sorry about that.

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And, you know, people in the industry, manufacturers, representatives, pro fishermen, and so on,

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and other writers, and resort owners, so, just kind of,

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like I said, like I said, the other day, I'm quite cold, and not coughed all day, and

55
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didn't cough the whole time we were talking earlier, no worries.

56
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Ooh, yeah.

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You can keep a glass, and kind of buy you if you want.

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You're going to, well, I want a cup.

59
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Yeah, perfect.

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Where's my fishing hall of feet?

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Oh, yeah, that'll help.

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I hope you want me to do that over here.

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No, we'll just keep going from there.

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So you were kind of manufacturing your own path, in a way.

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Yeah, yeah, kind of, I loved freelance writing.

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And I got fortunate enough to be able to write for all the big three magazines, outdoor

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life field and street sports field, and then just little things, not a lot, but in those

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days it paid very well, and then if you had photographs as well.

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So I was finally making a decent living, and that, but I always wanted to be not interviewing

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tournament anglers, I wanted to be interviewing, I wanted to be the angler, right?

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And so I started fishing bass tournaments, did well, I won the state championship, I won

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your, and then met a guy who fished the walleye circuit, and he said, hey, how would you

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like to fish the walleye circuit?

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And I said, I can't afford it, and he said, well, I got a board, I got this, I got that,

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was put the cost.

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And so I paired up with him.

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We did really well, won three tournaments, the very first year, sponsorships came, and

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bam, then it really took off after that.

79
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What, what, Ron, what time was that?

80
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That was 1988-89.

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So you'd pick your juice, and that was 15, you wasn't immediate, right?

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Oh no, sure wasn't, and I didn't know if it would ever happen, I didn't expect it to.

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There was an opportunity.

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I did seize the opportunity, and I set a goal, a five-year goal, and I thought, if I don't

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make these goals, in five years, I'll get out, made them in one year.

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So then you couldn't get out, because it was too fun, and it paid well, so yeah.

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So how does a professional walleye fisherman make a living?

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Is it mostly from sponsorships, or is it from the tournament winnings, or how does that

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happen?

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Yeah, at first it's a combination.

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Usually when you start out, you don't have sponsorships, or they're very small, but it

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all helps.

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So then winnings really help.

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You gain notoriety, you get speaking engagements, you have to be willing to do them, and that

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means traveling all over the United States, all the way along at sport shows, and giving

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seminars on walleye fishing.

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I liked doing that anyway, so whatever an opportunity was there, I would take it.

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And it's interesting, because there again, they paid a lot for speakers.

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My professional walleye angers were rare, prior to the mid-80s, the only walleye pros

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were outdoor writers who fished with good walleye guides, so they knew how to do it, and they

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would come into the shows and talk about it.

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There was no competitive walleye angling, well, once that started, and you proved yourself

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a winner, then you could get the stage time to go and talk about your winning tactics

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and things you do, and how you learn, and how to tweak things, and just how to be a

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better angler.

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So for some of the people that would show up to this, were they hoping to be competitive

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anglers, or these just, your average fishermen who just wanted to get a little better, and

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catch the wall?

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Usually, most of the time it's guys that they want to win, you talk to them, they compete

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a lot of stuff, they race it all, cars, they do all that dirt bikes, they're always racing,

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but yeah, they're competitors, so that they do it for the competition, they want to win,

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some want to do it to make a living, some just do it because they enjoy the competition,

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but they hit maybe owner-owned business, I have some other jabbing away from, self-employed,

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whatever, they're never looking to become a full-time professional, they don't want

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to speak at shows in the winter, they want to go to Florida in fish oil winter, get it

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under yachts, so, which is good, because if everybody wanted to do that, then it waters

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down the whole field, so there's always a handful, and it's always the same guys, year

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after year after year, doing these circuits, and we would, a handful of us would speak

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and take a regular route, and then actually we have a different route, and third year

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another route, and then they're ready for you again, two or three years later, and some

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sports shows would have you every year.

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So, how much of what percentage of your life was actual tournaments versus talking about

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tournaments?

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Yeah, well, the tournaments would run from mid-March to October, and then all the time

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after that, you're not tournament fishing, if that's your profession, you've got to make

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money in the winter, and of course, that's most of it, because March, October, it's about

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half a year, so your other half is speaking engagements, period, or guiding, a lot of

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guys still guided in between, and guided late into fall and early spring, I quit guiding

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three years into it, I could just couldn't keep doing it, and mainly because I was fishing

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three circuits, you know, once, while I tournament circuits proved successful, then all these

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other circuits started popping up, bigger money, you know, getting sponsorships from

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elsewhere and longer travel, you weren't just fishing midwest anymore, but if you, that

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was your profession, that's what you did, I mean, you just went where the tournaments

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were, and the paybacks were way better, sponsors liked it, so that, the more you did, the

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more you got paid to do it, that's kind of how it works, and then the rest of the time

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of the year, you're promoting sponsors during your seminars, you know, so for you, did you

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get a chance to come back to Wisconsin and fish here, or was that kind of lost to you

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for a time?

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Oh, it's really lost, the only time I fished in Wisconsin was when it was a tournament

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here, we would come, I was, like I said, fishing two or three circuits, one time three,

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I did 19 tournaments that year, not counting the championships, so my wife and I, she would

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travel with me and help me out, she was kind of my jack of all trades, and she would take

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care of all the side distractions that I didn't want to have to do, I wanted to focus on fishing,

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so she would take care of all that, and so that, yeah, when I came home, all I did was

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get the boat ready for the next tournaments, I didn't even have time to fish here, but

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at the tournament was I won a bag, if it was in Green Bay, Pete and Wells Floyd, kind of

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the most popular place for walleye tournaments, yeah, then I fished.

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So this, our documentary is talking about walleye in Wisconsin as a significant cultural

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species, also connected to economy and tourism and tournaments, and so for you, did walleye

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still hold a special place, or once it became like a livelihood, did it kind of shift?

151
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That's a great question, walleye, because I grew up fishing walleyes in the Fox River,

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they were like the golden boy of the fishery, you know what I mean, everybody, the elusive

153
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walleye walleye, that's all we ever read about or heard about, and how hard they were to catch,

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and they were never hard for me to catch, I never bought that, I never thought, why do

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people keep saying that, because it's not true, but for a lot of people they can be,

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they're a special fish, and yes, when I would come home, we have a walleye run here in March,

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up the Fox River, and I would always fish that, and then there would always be a smaller run

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on the fall, and I would fish that, and then I'd do some walleye fishing on Big Green Lake,

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and do some, because I guided for walleye server, so Lake Puckaway, same way, I quit fishing

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Wisconsin River, because I just didn't need to go there, because I could catch them elsewhere,

161
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fishing all over the US made me a better angler here, but fishing here made me a way better

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angler elsewhere, and I think that's why the Wisconsin tournament anglers, especially,

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were so good under professional walleye trail, I mean we just outshined everybody,

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almost everybody, just because of our knowledge of fishing on this Winnebago system, a tough system,

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but once you've got to figure it out, man, it's so good, you know.

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So that's the key, once you, if you can fish them here, you can do it anywhere.

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Yeah, I believe that, and well, I proved it, and so have several other anglers, so yeah.

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So you have the ultimate home field test, the home field advantage thing.

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Absolutely, and you know, even yet, when I catch a walleye today, I mean, I just look at that,

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I just marvel at that fish, it's just a very special fish, and I never, no, I never took it

171
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for granted, I mean, I could catch the replacement going and catch 100 walleyes a day, you know,

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there's fish that are using North America that good, and even in a half a day sometimes,

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it's so plentiful, but you never got tired of it, you never got tired of going the next day

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and catching some more fish, and catching those walleyes, and it didn't matter if they were 10

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pounds or 10 inches, you know, it's just not for me anyway, for some people maybe, but not for me,

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it's just a special fish. So what's it like to have a walleye on? Is it the anticipation for

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you of like when they're about to, or setting the hook, or is it getting them in the boat,

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what are the different moments in that action? Yeah, I'm a caster, so I'm casting baits out,

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retrieving, I mean, I catch, obviously, I have to learn how to catch walleyes in every method

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to be professional, you can't just use one thing, or you get a lot of zeros, you know, so I had to

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learn these other methods, but my favorite is casting, it's usually casting a jig,

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pitching it out, working a lot on the bottom, and when you feel that it's just something special,

183
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it's just like that, you know right away what it is, and I know a lot of fish bites, small

184
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mop bite like that, and a large mop bite, and a pike bite, but you can, if you're caught enough

185
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and dead enough, you can tell, and just just just feeling that, I mean, it's exciting, I mean,

186
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the most exciting thing for me in fishing is the bite, it was the same way musky fishing,

187
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bass fishing, top water, that's the most exciting thing, actually finding catching a fish is no big,

188
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you know, that's all part of the stick, but feeling that bite is so cool, this is, it says,

189
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since such a rush, you know, and it's in walleyes way more subtle than those other fish, but

190
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maybe that's what makes it so much better, and because they're in the perch family, perch bite

191
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the same way, even more subtle, so I love the fish perch with jigs the same way, it's just a

192
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few little tap, and yeah, that's the deal, it's like what's the best part about bobber fishing,

193
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when the bobber goes down, I mean, the same thing, and I still get excited about that when

194
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I fish with bobbers, so, and yeah, so I mean, could you have been as successful as you have been

195
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without still enjoying every part of it? No, I don't think so, I don't think so, I mean, yeah,

196
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it's a job, I never, I don't know, every fish I caught, even if it wasn't a keeper, you know,

197
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even if it wasn't a money fish, it was just, it was just wow, you know, it was just that wow

198
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factor every time, it wasn't like that, that, you know, I don't care and just throw it, you know,

199
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I would never do that, just drop over the side and let them go, because that fish is special, I mean,

200
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you know, that's 10 years from now, he's that 10 pounder, you know. So, why didn't you go into

201
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small boat, is that, you know, bass tournaments are what a lot of people, most average non-fishermen,

202
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they've heard of big bass tournaments, you see, right, oh yeah, but it seems like that's where

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the money would be, so why? That's totally where the money is, and still is, and

204
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but the money started to come into the walleye thing in the in the late 1980s, and I thought,

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well, this isn't bass, and I would, and I always wanted to be a bass guy, I mean, you know, those

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guys, they had the TV shows, and a lot of those guys actually are friends of mine today, because

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we're all in the industry, but, and they would always tease me, that was fishing those walleyes,

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and they were always, you're never going to make any money doing that, why don't you get into the

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bass, and, but that's an expensive deal, I mean, you just, you just, yeah, and just to get through

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all the qualifying and stuff to, to do it, is brutal, but there are guys that, they're still

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doing it, these young guys today are just amazing how they've come in, and we've got some in our

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own state here that have done great, you know, fishing all over the country for bass, had the

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walleye thing not panned out, say the money was never there, I couldn't tell you if I would have

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gotten into bass or not, I may have probably just kept freelancing, writing, guiding, you know, doing

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both, because it was something I liked, and it was easy, and it was here, and, you know, it didn't

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have a lot of expenses, turn like fishing is expensive, I mean, even in the, even in the 90s,

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you're dropping 25 to 35,000 a year, and that was a lot of money back then, if you didn't have

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the sponsors, was coming out of your own pocket, you couldn't sustain that if you weren't good,

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you know, if you just showed up and fished, so you really had to perform, it's a performance

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sport, yeah. Well, you're talking about that before, but how much of it is mental,

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comparing it, I mean, it is interesting that you've heard people talk about pro athletes,

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and there's a lot more people that have the same physical qualifications, but they may not have

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the mental makeup. Well, yeah, you see that all the time, I mean, if you're watching a lot of

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sports, you see that in an athlete, and you see it in so many guys were Heisman Trophy winners,

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they had the physical skill, but they didn't have what we call it, they didn't have it,

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they just couldn't make it work with a team. Now, granted fishing is not a team sport,

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well, it can be, but most of the time it's not, so it's individual, it's you against the fish,

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you against yourself, and you can't control anything anybody else is doing,

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you just have to focus on what you're doing. So the longer you stay in the game mentally,

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the better chance you have, and, but you still gotta have the skills, you just can't say, well,

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I'm a Jake Fisherman, I hate trolling, period, that's me, okay, I'm a Jake Fisherman, I hate

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trolling, it was me in 1988. By 1995, I had, I look, I gotta learn how to do this, because we're

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on more and more lakes, we're a troll, I gotta learn how to fish bottom bounces and spinner rigs,

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I gotta learn how to fish slip bobber rigs, and have the patience to do it, which is a whole

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mental game, and, and I learned, I learned all those things, I want tournaments doing all those

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things, and had I not been versatile, I would have maybe won one or two tournaments,

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doing it the way I like, and that don't pay the bills, yeah, I mean, if you're independently wealthy,

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you don't care fine, do your stick, but, but, but then what you're gonna do, you know, I, if I'm

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going to a sports show and, and do a seminar, and somebody, the audience says, how do you work

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planer boards, how do you, how much line do you set back on, on a floating bait, floating

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rapel up, for example, with a small lip, you know, how deep does it go about it, you got to answer

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those questions, if you want to continue to, to excel in the sport, you got to know this stuff,

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and, and, and a lot of guys didn't want to learn it, they said, I don't like doing that, something

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I can learn it, well, so you, you guided for quite a few years before that, what's the experience

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like as a guide, well, I guess what's the, the, these are different roles of how people see a

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guide, like I can, I'll take you there and show you versus I'll give you an experience.

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Yeah, um, guide, I had a real love hate relationship with a guy, because you book a guide trip,

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they want to go, and they don't care if the wind's blowing, if it's raining, snowing,

249
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and you don't want to go, you would beat up all day of the day before,

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with guiding, you have an eight hour day, in the boat, with, with two clients, okay,

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so you get up at four a.m., get everything ready, get it in, go and get the bait, get the tackle,

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meet, meet them at the ramp, they're all fired up, okay, they've had, they've had breakfast,

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you have, and you grab some coffee, a quick trip or whatever, you know, and it did a horrible

254
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doughnut, and, and as you breakfast, so they're, they're fired up, they get out there, they fish

255
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your fish all day, uh, fish may not be doing so well, cold front, whatever, and so you have to make

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them feel like they're having a good time, having a good experience, uh, you have to have a whole

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lifetime of stories to tell, to share with them, uh, people in common that you might know

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that you can tell stories about, and it's, it's all way more, just sitting there like a bump on

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a log all day in the boat, not talking, and moving around the places, you gotta know your lake,

260
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you gotta know the techniques, you gotta be willing to say, look guys, well, always aren't

261
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gonna bite, I mean this cold front's so bad, let's go, you want to catch some, let's go fish

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northerners or something, yeah, well it's better or nothing, then you go out and you catch

263
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20 northerners and a couple great big giant ones, they had a great day, they didn't get their

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walleyes, but they still had a great day, then there's no fish days, I guaranteed fish, so

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if I had a no fish day with client clients, I would say, look, it's guaranteed, come back,

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we'll do this again, I says it's not gonna happen twice, so, and uh, some would take me up on it,

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some wouldn't, you know, and it always felt bad, I always felt like, you know, I let them down,

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you know, uh, as a guide, and yeah, it's, it's a hard job, and you drop them off, okay,

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then they got fish, they want you to help them clean them, so you help clean the fish,

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and they want to have lunch supper with you, they want to buy a supper, and then maybe sit around

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and have a few beverages, and you get home at 10 o'clock at night, and you got charged batteries,

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you got to get beat for the next day, you got to get everything all cleaned up because you got

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two new people the next day, I don't know how these guys do it, I mean, I did it, and it was hard,

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and I know guys that do it, and they just love it, every day they go, here we go, let's go get

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some fish, I'm like, and they won't even get the fish, like I didn't fish, I let them fish,

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I only fish to show them how to, you know, how to do it, but so then you're not even fishing,

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so that man, it's wicked, so that's why you did it when you had to pay some bills, tournament

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fish was way more fun, believe me, although a guy didn't even meet so many cool people, and

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you get repeat customers like crazy, you know. But there's got to be a joy that comes from

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giving them an experience, when they have those. Oh, for sure, my favorite was guiding, you know,

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dad and his son, or dad and his daughter, the kids getting the fish, I mean, that,

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those were special, I tried to do more of that than adults. I'm sure you get a lot of guys that

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think they know a lot, and they're just, they're there to learn, you know, where's the good spot,

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how to pay the next time, right? Yeah, one of the toughest is you get them on good fish,

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you go on the next day and they're there with their buddies and their boats, you can't even

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get there and fishing with your clients, that happens to, but you know, it's part of the deal.

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So, did you also eat well, I mean, was that ever? Oh, heck yeah. Yeah, still do. Yeah,

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every chance I get, I fish walleyes a little now, I don't fish them a lot.

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You know, there's just my wife and I and, you know, one 18 inch walleyes of meal. I don't need five,

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you know, I don't need three. So, you know, just get one for meal, next time she wants

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walleye, go get another one. It's kind of like the permanent freezer, right? It's always stocked.

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Yeah, you get them fresh, you know, yeah. But what is it about walleye eating them that's

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different than other fish? Yeah, they're, they're flaky. I mean, they're, they're more solid.

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I really think actually Northern Pike is just as good, you know, a lot of people don't think so.

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I do, you know, I eat both, you know, still do. Let's do it. And there's this whole stigma around

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the walleye, you know, the price of them in a restaurant, for example, some people think,

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you know, if I'm paying 20 bucks for a meal of walleyes, it must really taste good. Oh, yeah,

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that's delicious. And they take this in here, you know. Yeah. Well, that's interesting,

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there is a lot of mystique around walleye in Wisconsin. What's the history of that? Where did all

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that, how did that, that culture get built up around this one fish? Well, I think the guides,

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I think the guides perpetrate a lot of that mainly because they can be tough to catch

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for the average fisherman. They don't act all the time, like they're not as predictable as other

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fish for one thing. They move, they don't, they have shorter feeding periods and a lot of fish.

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They're very good at feeding. So they catch, you know, their bait fish pretty quick and then

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they shut down. And so I think that, the fact that they're more difficult to find, to catch,

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has made, has created this whole mystique about walleye fishing. And they're always,

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not always, but they're often in deep water and shallow water fish are always easier to catch.

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And no matter what the species, so deeper water fish are tougher, you know, more line,

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more mistakes, more snags, more things that, that you have less control over that the more

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line you have out the less control you have always. And, and so, yeah, we're in a bagel being shallow,

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puck away, box, remember being shallow, easy, easy peasy. So I never looked at them as being

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hard to catch. So I got in a tournament trail and had to fish deep water fish. Wait a minute,

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I've never done this, you know, so you have, I shouldn't say never, but you have to learn

314
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the whole, the way they act differently in different bodies of water too, you know, so.

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But, yeah, I mean, it seems like it's the combination of they're, they, they're not easy,

316
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they don't jump in the boat. And then the value of what they're like on the plate,

317
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like those two things together. Sure. And not, and they're a nocturnal species. So a lot of times,

318
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they've come up to feed shallow at night. And that's when you catch them like the last half hour before

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dark. So it's like a crazy half hour fishing and then nothing. Okay, so, so a lot of people don't

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get that opportunity or early morning. So there's that. But of course, in professional fishing,

321
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we didn't fish at night. We fished in daytime. So we had to learn how to adjust. How do we get

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these fish to bite in the daytime? Where are they? How do we make them bite? And I don't know that

323
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you could make them bite. You know, but you can at times trigger some fish with certain

324
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tricks and tweaks and stuff, you do it presentation, which gets us into a whole another four hour

325
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summer on how to present the bait properly to the mood of the fish. Yeah. So when it, when you look

326
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back at the, the history of, like you said, this place was up north for a lot of. Yes. And then

327
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there's up north today, which is Hayward. Yeah. How much of that mystique plays into up north,

328
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like it had to be a tribal destination for a lot. It's kind of that too. Yeah. We're in the same way

329
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with Northern Pike, you know, it's kind of like a, you know, it's a Canadian that whole Canadian

330
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walleye norther. That's all they ever talk about up there. Come up to Canada and catch all these

331
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fish. Well, we have these fish. And so, uh, and we have these fish all the way into Illinois.

332
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So in Michigan, Minnesota. So why, why do I have to go there? But, uh, uh, so yeah, people

333
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want it. They want to catch those fish. They think big fish. Oh, you get the big fish, you know,

334
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the big predator fish is always part of that. Cause, cause they, they do grow big.

335
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People don't eat a lot of, you know, people never ate a lot of bass in Wisconsin.

336
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Uh, they did, when I was a kid for subsistence, a lot of, a lot of the neighbors that ate bass

337
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all the time. Uh, but other people would, well, we don't eat bass. Well, they didn't have to,

338
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they had walleyes, they had norther and say it perts, bluegills, uh, like we, and we still do

339
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today when they can, they don't have to eat these other fish, but there's nothing wrong with those

340
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fish. And you just don't want to eat them in July, you know, but the rest of the year when the

341
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water's cool or cold, they're fine. You know, but because of the abundance of these good eating

342
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fish, so to speak, but then those same people ate ball heads and catfish and, and they're,

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they're no great meal, but they're not horrible either. So yeah, you need a matter of fish, you know.

344
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So one of the, the things that we're looking at is how much attention the state and like the

345
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DNR or the universities and their researchers or Glyphwick or the tribes and they're all the

346
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stocking and the research and the studies and there's a lot of attention on one species. Yeah.

347
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Is it warranted for that one species to have so much money sunk into these? And in a lot of places,

348
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populations are declining due to a number of different factors and there's so much effort

349
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being like bring back the walleye. Is that, is that needed? Is that worth it? Or should I just let it,

350
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you know, all I decline in an area, then decline and something else will come in.

351
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If the money's there, if the resources are there, yeah, I mean, why not? We've done it with trout,

352
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did it with buskies. I mean, why not? Yeah, you don't, the species, you don't have to really

353
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manage like bass, for example, and bluegills. I mean, they kind of take care of themselves and

354
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yeah, they can get started, they can get over a bundle and things can happen there too, but they

355
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rebalance a faster, faster on every bound and, and they can live in almost anything, you know,

356
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,960
but where walleyes need, you know, better water, cleaner water generally,

357
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:48,400
perch the same way. Percho walleyes are, they're important to, to the angler. They like to fish

358
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them, they like to keep them, they like to eat them. I think reducing the limit to three

359
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:03,840
will really go on ways to help that and, and, and places where they, where they've done slot

360
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:09,440
limits in other states and even in Wisconsin, it's done wonders. In places that I used to fish,

361
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:15,920
where you could barely catch one over 15 inches, not today with the slot limits, you can catch

362
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:22,000
lots of big fish and we have to release them. But that's okay. You don't want to eat those anyway.

363
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:29,520
So, so you just, but you can still keep some 14, 13, 15 inch walleyes if you want. I think

364
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:38,240
13 is a little small, but because these fish at that size grow pretty fast from the time of

365
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fingerling to the time they reach 15, 18 inches is three years, depending on male or female. So,

366
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:50,160
so that's pretty good. I mean, for fish to be out plate ready, if you want to use, use that term.

367
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So is it worth a heck yeah. And, you know, what, what the tribes are doing with the stocking is,

368
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obviously it's a great PR thing, but, but it's also an important resource thing because we get

369
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:15,200
officials lakes too. And I've fished quite a bit on a lactic flambo foliage. I know several

370
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:20,320
tribal people up there that I've worked with over the years and PR and other stuff years ago.

371
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:27,280
But those, some of those lakes up there are just loaded with fish. And they don't even,

372
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,560
aren't even aware of the public's not even aware that you can fish those in the summer.

373
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You know, yeah, they're heavily speared, but there's a lot of fish there. When you look,

374
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you know, people look at the spear and they look at the how many fish are taken. So, it took 35,000

375
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:52,720
fish. Well, that's not, it's a lot because it's, you got the stats there, but you don't have the stats

376
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of the hook and line. And you don't have the stat, you know, which is way, way, way higher. And so,

377
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:06,560
I think the state has kind of figured out at this point. Yeah, this three fish limit is a good

378
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:12,240
idea. It's a good thing. Once people are used to that, you know, it only wants a limit.

379
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:20,880
Yeah, I got my limit. It's way easier to catch three than five or five than 10. So, if you lower

380
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the limit to three, they still got their limits. If you're four or five guys, if you use plenty of

381
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fish, that's enough fish. And that's just walleyes. You catch other fish to eat too. It's just,

382
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:37,440
just a hat doesn't have to just be walleyes. You know, Canada's been doing this forever. You

383
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,760
know, you can hardly bring any fish back from there. And those lakes are so full of fish, it's crazy.

384
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:48,080
You got to be afraid to wash your hands in there, you know, to get your fingers bit off. You know,

385
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:55,200
it's just nuts. And yet people complain about that, unless they, you know, just, it's just wise

386
00:37:55,200 --> 00:38:02,400
use. And it can work. It does work. It's proven that it works. Yeah.

387
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,360
So talk to me a little bit about the importance of relationships and fishing. Obviously, you have

388
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:13,440
a different dynamic, you know, with your wife being an active part of your career. But I'm sure

389
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:18,000
you know people who like either leave the wife at home or maybe the wife gets a little upset about

390
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:26,000
the amount of time spent in the boat. And how does that get managed? Well, like any career,

391
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:36,560
sometimes I don't, you know, and in people just go their separate ways. But tournament fishing

392
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,880
because the scheduling is tough. I mean, it's really tough. A lot of guys would bring their

393
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:48,000
wives and my wife loved that because she got the friends with the wives of the fishermen and

394
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:53,760
and they would do stuff together and so on. And a lot of them still do travel with their

395
00:38:53,760 --> 00:39:01,120
husbands. A few fish with their husbands, like in partner tournaments and so on do well. They do

396
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:08,160
very well. But it's a strain. I mean, any regards to what you're doing, it's a strain. But you can

397
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:13,920
have that same strain if you worked at nine to five. You know, you know, the guy comes home from

398
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:20,400
work and then goes and goes to the bar all night and plays, shoots pool plays dirt. I did all this

399
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:28,720
stuff. Shoot pool and do this and play baseball and all summer. And you know, that's the same

400
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:34,480
thing. You're there, but you're not there. You know, I mean physically there, but you're not there.

401
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:40,080
And because you're not doing anything with your spouse. So yeah, it's so so yeah, you have that

402
00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:48,160
and you do something that the two have to work out like you would with any any other jobs. Yeah.

403
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,720
Is there a way to make those? I mean, is it is we've heard from some couples that say, Oh, well,

404
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:56,880
I've come along, read a book read a book in the book. Yeah, you can still go on the water.

405
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,840
There's other just well, no, it's his time. And he's my time.

406
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:08,960
Well, I, yeah, you just got to decide you're not going to be as selfish as you are. And

407
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:17,120
with your time, and that's hard for a lot of guys and girls. I mean, just not just the guys guys,

408
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:25,440
but a lot of times it is, we're say, okay, I need, I need to spend some time here with you. And I'm

409
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:32,480
going to make the time to do that. And I wasn't real good at that early in my career. It was much

410
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:39,920
better later. Something I had to learn as well, because it can you yeah, you can go this way pretty

411
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:47,920
fast. If you're your spouse wants attention. And if you're if you're not giving her attention,

412
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:56,560
she's going to find attention. So nobody wants that. Neither does she. So, so you just got to

413
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:04,160
not be selfish and make time. Yeah, well, it probably helped you that she was a part of everything,

414
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:11,920
right? It did. I mean, you know, you think about that, you got kids who's doing everything with

415
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:16,240
the kids. She is just taking them to all their games. She is school. She is you're you're fishing.

416
00:41:18,240 --> 00:41:26,960
It don't look good. You know, it doesn't look good because it's not. And but you know, you get

417
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:34,640
manner, man can be driven. And to the point I'm not seeing that and not appreciating that.

418
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:41,120
And again, you got to be going to come back to reality. And that means you got to sit down

419
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:48,080
when you're home, you got to be home. You can't be in relax, you know, because that's your next

420
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:53,040
tournament. You know, you just got back from Lake Erie. And now you're home, but your heads

421
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:59,040
are relaxed because that's where you're going tomorrow. And that that's precious time together.

422
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:07,440
You got to block that out and really spend that time with her. And and and that's enough

423
00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:11,840
sometimes. Sometimes that's not enough. But it's better than nothing. And

424
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:18,000
in months, once it all falls into place and things can happen for you.

425
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:26,880
In Lake Erie, she gave up she was a real estate broker at a time when that that thing was just

426
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:37,200
exploding. And she gave that up to travel with me to help me in my career. That was a big sacrifice

427
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:43,280
for her for both of us because her income was even better than mine at that time. And it would

428
00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:49,520
have been way better. You know, you know, everything should make a lot of money tournament fishing,

429
00:42:49,520 --> 00:43:00,880
you know, but yeah, I mean, millions of dollars. But but she was wanting to give that up, give up

430
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:09,120
her career to be with me. And she loved it. I mean, we had did a lot. I mean, we went to places

431
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:16,080
together. We had never ever been able to afford to go to or take the time to go to. Yeah. That

432
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:25,280
sponsors paid for. And you know, when you get at that level, this is amazing what you can do. And

433
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:31,680
people you meet and stuff, you can see concerts and all kinds of crazy things.

434
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:36,880
So talk to me about the Hall of Fame. How did that come to me?

435
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:47,920
To get into the fishing Hall of Fame is very simple. You first of all, you have to be nominated

436
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:54,480
by someone. No matter who you are or how great you are, if you're not nominated, you don't get in.

437
00:43:54,480 --> 00:44:04,400
So you have to be nominated by someone. So someone nominated me. And and years ago, 30 years ago,

438
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:11,120
and I was so busy fishing, I didn't even care. I mean, you want to nominate great. I don't know.

439
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:21,440
I don't have time to deal with that. So and I didn't get in. And so then several years later,

440
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:27,200
another guy, Joel Coons, friend of mine. So I'm going to nominate you for a lot of favors. And

441
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:34,320
I saw enough time. And he goes, well, you don't need to do anything. I'll do it. Okay. So he nominated

442
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:43,200
me and he put together a resume and stuff. And I didn't get in. Okay. So, but then I got a little

443
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:53,280
more interested because now I'm in my 70s. And again, I'd be kind of nice. So we get three chances. So

444
00:44:55,200 --> 00:45:04,160
we did a re nomination, or he did. And it was and did a better job. I did a better job of getting

445
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:09,440
the information that they wanted that he needed that he couldn't get out of me because I was too

446
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:16,320
busy doing other stuff. And and so you have to, the protocols you have to follow, if you don't

447
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:22,080
follow them, even no matter what your resume says, if you don't follow their specific protocols,

448
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:29,280
you can't get in. So I did that. And the vote is always, they have a committee,

449
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:37,520
a 10 member committee, it has to be unanimous. So which makes it very, very difficult. And

450
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:51,120
um, in the unanimously, uh, voted me in 2025. So, um, yeah, it was quite quite the deal. I mean,

451
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:57,600
it's very honoring, really humbling because the people that are in that, I mean, if you look at

452
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:07,520
what, what am I doing in this, you know, with these guys over here, but um, yeah, it's, uh,

453
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:14,000
it's a great honor. And, uh, there's a whole lot of people that aren't in that way, better

454
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:21,360
fishermen. I, I ever was. And, uh, and they should be in, but you have to follow the rules to get

455
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:28,320
and just like you do with anything. Yeah. So it takes, uh, a lot of due diligence to, uh,

456
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:35,760
to get it done the proper way to follow proper channels and do it all, all correctly. But obviously

457
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:42,560
it can be done. So does it feel like a cherry on top to your, your career? Or is it, uh,

458
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:50,720
Oh sure. Oh sure. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I never, this is why I never took it so seriously,

459
00:46:50,720 --> 00:46:57,120
the other two times because that, well, if I get it again, if I, I never knew that they had

460
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:05,760
protocols or rules or things you had to follow, uh, to do this. I said, well, here I am. This is me,

461
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:12,400
you know, I can catch fish and have one tournaments. And I spoke to millions of people and blah,

462
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:19,440
blah, blah, blah. And, uh, so, okay. No, like, uh, there are today,

463
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:29,680
efficient or famous, uh, set anew as a whole set of rules, curricula, you have to follow and,

464
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:35,760
and so much of it is media. Uh, what have you done? Where have you done a promote fishing?

465
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:42,560
You know, not only with Scots, but in the world. What have you done, uh, to teach people of fish

466
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:51,440
in your career? Uh, if you just tournament fish, if you just guided a lot of people that are in

467
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:58,720
Hall of Fame are in because of that, because of those two things. But today, that's not enough.

468
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:05,760
Today was all the month I made pot. Do you have a podcast? Do you have a show, a TV show? How do

469
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:12,160
you reach people? And, uh, have you worked with state agencies and restoration projects? And so,

470
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:18,640
so it's much more deeper now than it used to be. And, and, and it's understandable. I mean,

471
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:23,920
when you start out, guy starts out, Hey, I'm starting Hall of Fame. Who are you going to put it? Well,

472
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:30,480
how about Joe? He's a great fisherman. Okay. You know, and, and it's true. I mean, some,

473
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:35,600
some of the really early inductees in the Hall of Fame are great guides, you know, but they

474
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:41,280
couldn't do it. Fisherman could do it a day to promote the sport of angling. And, and I think that,

475
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:49,360
uh, and, and biologists, so more and more they're leaning toward people who are

476
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:56,000
writers, but not just writers, writers that are fishermen, writers that promote writers that

477
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:01,520
work with nonprofit organizations with other fisheries organizations, other groups. I mean,

478
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:08,400
it's just expanded so much manufacturers that have done contributed hundreds of thousands of

479
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:14,160
dollars at the industry that get kind of stuff. So yeah, it's, it's not, it's hard. It's really

480
00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:19,680
hard to get in. I'm proof of that. You just can't get in because somebody knows you're a great

481
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:28,480
fisherman anymore. Yeah, the 10 member, the 10 member voting panel are very, very tough. And,

482
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:34,880
and I think that's a good thing. Of course I can say that because I, because I made it.

483
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:42,800
But, but yeah, I mean, I mean, do they give you a call? When that, when it happens,

484
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:48,640
you get a letter? Or how does that work? They, they send you a letter. Believe it or not. Uh,

485
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:53,120
they make you a, they, they, they make the decision in July. It don't tell you until

486
00:49:53,120 --> 00:50:03,280
October. Yeah. And you get a letter from the president of the Hall of Fame. Congratulations.

487
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:11,600
You've been chosen for induction for 2025. That's from Evan Brown. And, uh, I'm like,

488
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:21,920
yeah, yeah, it was, it was a pretty emotional thing. It still is. And, uh, I'm, like I said,

489
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:28,400
I'm very humbled by it. I, I'm, I'm sorry that I was so flippant about it all those other years

490
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:36,800
because it really is a great honor. I mean, it's, uh, yeah. Because I wish I would have had it 30

491
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:41,920
years ago, so I could have brayed about all these years. They had people who wanted to put you in

492
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:49,840
just before you died, died. It's a thanks a lot. So take advantage of it because you haven't

493
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:55,600
got that many years to break about it. But your plaque will always be there. Black will always

494
00:50:55,600 --> 00:51:03,440
be there. One of my grandkids will have that someplace someday. Yeah. Um, I think that's all we need

495
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:09,760
from you. Okay. Um, thank you for giving us time. Oh, thank you. If you don't mind what I would

496
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:14,400
like to do is put a little wireless mic on you and have you kind of give Ethan and me a little

497
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:19,600
tour of your office. Sure. Any other, the mementos and photos from around, from around here, if that's

498
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:32,080
okay. Sure. Yeah. That'd be great. Yeah. If I, if I had a computer in, uh, back in the days of the

499
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:40,320
manual typewriter, where I started, uh, my freelance writing career, right at this desk and, uh,

500
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:47,840
thousands, tens of thousands of hours are tick, tick, tick, tick. And, uh, and, uh, you raised tape

501
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:54,560
and all that good stuff. And, and, uh, now it's still doing so, a little bit of writing, you know,

502
00:51:54,560 --> 00:52:01,440
with the computer, it's so much easier, so it's nicer. And, uh, of course I had to have a place to

503
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:10,720
hang up all my, basically my life, or at least most of my life accomplishments here.

504
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:13,040
Well, snapshot, what we got here, one second. That's all right.

505
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:18,000
So what do we, what do we got on the wall for some of these players? Yeah. Well, these were

506
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:24,160
mainly, uh, these are all my walleye. Well, they're not all of them, but, uh, it's one of my top 10

507
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:31,760
finishes in walleye tournament fishing. And, uh, you can see different places around the world,

508
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:40,800
Minnesota, Michigan, Arkansas, Arkansas, Super Pro, Missouri Super Pro Championship, and, uh,

509
00:52:41,840 --> 00:52:48,160
Port Clinton, Ohio championship up there. I see one up there. Uh, what a bagel. Well, oh, yeah,

510
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:56,800
one from when the bagel. It's, uh, Mercury National 2,000. That was a while ago. 25 years ago already.

511
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:06,720
And, uh, one, I don't have a, I don't mount a lot of stuff in my mounted walleye that, uh,

512
00:53:08,560 --> 00:53:16,160
we used for a four, we had, uh, four shooting for Peck, Montana, and, uh, within Fisherman for

513
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:22,640
their magazine and publication, other, uh, TV show. And, uh, they needed, uh, one of the walleye

514
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:30,880
over 10 pounds. And so I went out and caught that. It was a 13. Uh, just drove over a hump and saw it

515
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:37,120
on the, sitting down on the bottom there with a graph, you know, and, uh, dropped the jig of the

516
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:42,640
middle down to it and reeled it up and started taking pictures. And it's that fish and, uh,

517
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:47,600
as fish is on the cover of the walleye insider that's that fish over there. So,

518
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:54,720
yeah, it's been, uh, most, most people when they say they want a 10 pound walleye in your dreams.

519
00:53:55,360 --> 00:54:00,640
Yeah. Well, we went up in an afternoon. We, we, uh, yeah, I, I always had a,

520
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:08,880
back in those days, I knew how to catch those big fish. And so I got a lot of opportunities

521
00:54:08,880 --> 00:54:18,000
to go with writers and, and, uh, video people that wanted, wanted big fish. And they said, well,

522
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:21,840
this is a guy to call. They'd call me. I said, well, that's, yeah, where do you want to go? We'll,

523
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:29,040
let's go get one. And, uh, they're like, how do you do this? You know, but, uh, uh, it's not hard. I

524
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:34,800
mean, you pick a time of year, spring or fall and when they're most abundant and they're most

525
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:40,640
aggressive and you just find them and go catch them, catch them. That's the easiest part. You know,

526
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:48,720
it's, it's, uh, just, you know, locating and, and, uh, you want photo fish. I mean,

527
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:54,000
they always wanted bigs. I don't know why. I mean, I think a three pound walleye is just as

528
00:54:54,000 --> 00:55:00,960
impressive as a 10 pounder, but, uh, they don't. So, of course I'm a little guy. So when I hold

529
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:05,680
a 10 pounder, it's, it looks big. You know, it is big, but yeah, I can hold it. I can make a

530
00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:14,960
five pounder look pretty big. So, man, the rest of it's just a couple deer from years ago that I

531
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:26,400
got and hunting out here. So I think I saw the photo here. Is this you? That's, yeah, that's, uh,

532
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:35,840
that's me in a professional walleye trail stage long time ago. I don't even know. Is that Elle?

533
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:48,320
Think it is. Elle Linda was the MC at that time and I got quite a few pictures of Elle. He's got

534
00:55:48,320 --> 00:55:55,120
his weirdest look on his face is whenever I'm talking because, you know, he's like, what are you

535
00:55:55,200 --> 00:56:02,640
saying? The word salads, you know, so you do it when you bomb an internment, you know. So,

536
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:07,680
yeah, it's pretty, we're talking about that opera and he laughs about that. He says, yeah,

537
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,520
you just stand there and keep talking, but you never said anything. I said, yeah, it's kind of,

538
00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:19,680
what you do when you fail, you know. Yeah, the other things are just crazy stuff.

539
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:25,920
Uh, do you want to get used to tripod and get some skills? I think we're going to let you

540
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:36,240
have a shot at it in the other two boys. So, uh, yeah, there's a riot on top water baits too. Oh,

541
00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:42,400
really? That'd be fun. They kind of hooked themselves so that I figured it'd be the easiest for the

542
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:47,680
kids, you know. Yeah, that was a blast. It's probably the loudest screaming though, right?

543
00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:56,400
Lots of screaming, especially from the little ones. Yeah. Yeah, I started bird watching and there

544
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:02,400
was a fall migration of warblers. He's naming off the bird's flight order going peep, chirp.

545
00:57:04,160 --> 00:57:07,920
Oh, that's a black birdie in the world. It's a black and white warbler. Oh, there goes a

546
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:12,640
Cape May warbler. I'm like, you got to be kidding me. You know, there's a blue jade.

547
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:21,440
I'm buying them. Well, that and other said I would submit to other magazines and they were buying

548
00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:28,080
them. So then all of a sudden I'm writing a column for the local paper, then I'm writing for the

549
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:33,760
other paper over in Green Lake, another column, and I'm writing constantly. It's all I was doing.

550
00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:43,120
I was writing, but I was selling it and it wasn't hard. So was it mostly birds and fish or what

551
00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:49,520
were the topics? It was mostly birds and fish observation. It wasn't science-based,

552
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:56,080
but then I got elected to the Conservation Congress. So then I started doing reporting,

553
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,920
which obviously a whole different kind of worms. And that was so easy compared to

554
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:13,120
creative writing. So I started doing working as a freelancer to cover stories for

555
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:20,160
I did something journal, Milwaukee Journal, a couple for Madison paper there for that

556
00:58:20,160 --> 00:58:24,240
meeting. Could you cover it and send us a piece and we want 500 words or whatever.

557
00:58:24,880 --> 00:58:32,640
And that's why I started doing that. And those all paid really well and much more than like say

558
00:58:32,640 --> 00:58:40,640
a local column, but the local column and the paper paid every week. So I got an outdoor column,

559
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:46,000
well then they had me start doing reporting. So then I got paid more and photography. So I got

560
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:57,440
paid more and went on for, well 78 is when I started, 89 is when I stopped writing all together

561
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:03,920
because of my turn to my career. Although I didn't read several books, it was less different.

562
00:59:04,560 --> 00:59:15,520
So I wrote the Journal of Walli Pro and wrote a thousand. Well then a new guy comes in and

563
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:23,200
why are we selling his books? And we shouldn't be selling somebody else's books. We should only

564
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:32,800
be selling our authors books. That was after the lenders sold. That was Al's idea. So the new

565
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:39,920
people said, okay, yeah, let's get rid of all of these gerry persons had one, no chad one. So

566
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:49,600
they called me and said, hey, we got 8000 of these books sitting here. And we're going to phase them

567
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:56,960
out. Do you want them? This is what you want for me. It's a bucket piece. I go, okay. So I bought

568
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:04,800
them. I said, let's buy them. I'll sell them at sport shows. Well, they were gone in like two years

569
01:00:04,800 --> 01:00:10,160
because I'm getting out of the writing business and the publishing business. And I've got

570
01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:18,400
6,000 of these books. Do you want them? And this is how much? She's just three bucks. I go

571
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:25,920
18 grand. A lot of money. So we talked it over. We talked it over. He lives in Iowa.

572
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:32,720
And I said, let's do it. I said, we sold all these other ones. We're selling them. Let's just

573
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:41,280
we'll sell them eventually. So we bought the journal book and went out of the Madison show.

574
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:48,400
I said, you know, this is a pretty good gig. So they asked, we end up selling that. I had

575
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:54,640
the video and then I did the jigging and spoon video and I wrote a fishing with a mission and

576
01:00:54,640 --> 01:01:01,600
I wrote a ghost road, a cookbook for a buddy of mine and then the local guy, the Buffalo Lake

577
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:15,760
fishing. And my very after three, I wrote three stories. You can get them at Amazon

578
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:22,880
for $75 to $150 a piece. Boy, I wish I had a kept a couple of cases.

579
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:29,840
Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, we try to share a fun had a good way of saying, oh, look at there.

580
01:01:29,920 --> 01:01:34,960
Did you brought it home? Yeah, it's pretty funny. So I only got two of those left.

581
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:44,000
And I only have the other seven. Yeah, the obvious is VHS tapes on it's all junk. I mean,

582
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:51,680
no, we should buy those. But at that, my little, yeah, what do you do with that stuff? I mean,

583
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:56,320
do you think we could borrow this? You can have it. Digitize some of this. Sure.

584
01:01:56,400 --> 01:02:00,320
These will grab a couple clips out of here. Cool. Yeah, that'd be great.

585
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:04,560
Sure, absolutely. Some vintage stuff. Definitely an vintage.

586
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:11,440
I haven't got some bait up there somewhere. Seriously? I do.

587
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,000
Oh, where it is. The engineers would probably be happier with baited than they would be.

588
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:20,640
They probably would. Yeah. I don't know where it is, but share somewhere. That's funny.

589
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:24,560
Unless I taught, you know, I don't think I threw that out.

590
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:27,760
Very cool.

591
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:35,200
I don't see it though.

592
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:44,400
It should be right up there with the rest of it. Maybe I did throw it because I figured I

593
01:02:44,400 --> 01:02:55,120
had nobody's ever gonna just look at this. Believe me, I did such a clearing of stuff.

594
01:02:55,120 --> 01:03:00,000
You wouldn't just bins and piles and piles and piles of promotional crap.

595
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:04,240
You know, because this just was of no value.

596
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:04,800
No.

597
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:09,840
Some of those, like,

598
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:14,560
they was the greatest thing on earth for about a year.

599
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:20,320
And then I must have got everybody that wanted to buy one because I'm sitting here with a bunch.

600
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:33,280
You know, not that I tried to sell them. I don't see that bait up, but I didn't think it.

601
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:37,040
That's cool. Yeah.

602
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:40,880
Sorry, I think visually. No, but then you come to a watch like full.

603
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:42,880
Yeah, we just feel like it's a pop to get into it.

604
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:44,640
Just sure you're not doing your first story again.

605
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:49,840
Do you have a big Paul McCartney fan? Oh, yeah.

606
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:54,480
I mean, the song Youngboy is incredible. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

607
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:57,760
Yeah, I heard it. I highly recommend what some of his solo work.

608
01:03:58,640 --> 01:04:06,080
I actually made in my, like I said, in our crazy profession,

609
01:04:06,960 --> 01:04:21,760
I ran into this guy, Ken Mansfield. He was, he was a manager of U.S. manager for Apple Records.

610
01:04:21,760 --> 01:04:22,240
Oh, wow.

611
01:04:23,200 --> 01:04:31,120
For the Beatles. And we became friends in a bizarre twist of fate.

612
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:37,360
He wanted to hire me to be, he was a speaker, a motivational speaker.

613
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,960
And he said, I make the hire of you to be my manager.

614
01:04:42,800 --> 01:04:49,360
And I almost did it. That was in 2009, right after I got out of tournament fishing.

615
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:54,880
And Shari just looked at me. She goes, what's wrong with you?

616
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,320
She says, what does that mean? I go, I don't have to fly to LA and

617
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:13,280
let's other places, a couple of times a week in Nashville or she like, no,

618
01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:18,800
I'm not doing it. She's, no, it's really not. She's crazy.

619
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:22,400
I said, it'd be so cool. She says, no.

620
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:39,600
My Lindy commercial. That was like from 80 something.

621
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:42,320
Uh, good grief.

622
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:46,240
What's it like revisiting all this up here?

623
01:05:48,720 --> 01:05:54,960
It's like a different person. You know, it's like it was a different person.

624
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,040
Did that guy know what was coming to him?

625
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:09,680
I cannot believe I would have thrown that because I, because I would have thought,

626
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:15,440
ask somebody some, no, I'm not seeing it.

627
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:24,960
By your webs up here. So last time I'd been up there.

628
01:06:25,840 --> 01:06:31,040
Oh, sorry guys. What's this little short one here, baby?

629
01:06:35,680 --> 01:06:37,520
Beta would have been a shorter box.

630
01:06:40,880 --> 01:06:41,360
Okay.

631
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:45,680
No, it's not that, I'm weedling it.

632
01:06:54,960 --> 01:07:02,880
Yeah, it's a VHS too.

633
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:09,680
Oh yeah. This, um, this has my promotional,

634
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:17,120
like my, my, what they would play before I would speak.

635
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:17,680
Oh really?

636
01:07:17,680 --> 01:07:20,960
Yeah, it's where it shows. They pop and then it would show me,

637
01:07:20,960 --> 01:07:23,120
that's a monster fish and a lot of crap.

638
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:27,360
See, that's where I had on beta too.

639
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,080
Cause, cause back then you had to. Yeah, they're both.

640
01:07:35,120 --> 01:07:38,560
You want that at all or? Sure. I mean, I wouldn't say no.

641
01:07:38,560 --> 01:07:39,840
Something to look at. Yeah.

642
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:48,160
Yeah, the betas were much shorter than the VHS.

643
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:53,680
So we're, we're, we're good. I'm sure this will work.

644
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,440
Yeah, cause the beta was this would have been the same.

645
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:01,280
Same footage. Pretty easy.

646
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:14,800
So this, uh, this Ken guy, we meet, we meet him and his wife and go ahead.

647
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:18,560
When those guys were the outlaws, that's who managed them.

648
01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:24,320
And then, uh, Jesse Colter, who was William Jennings' wife,

649
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:30,560
and then I went in a Grammy and he was, and he got a Grammy because he was her

650
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:34,160
man, sort of another career young enough to do it.

651
01:08:35,120 --> 01:08:40,560
So why was he looking to you to manage as opposed to like someone who had a lot of

652
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,040
managing experience? Yeah, that's what I said to him.

653
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:45,520
He says, cause I don't want, he says, I don't have the time to do it.

654
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:47,520
He says, I'm running around speaking all the time.

655
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:52,160
He says, I need somebody to book my flights, book my, all my stuff.

656
01:08:52,160 --> 01:08:54,400
And he was trying to do it himself.

657
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:58,240
And he was undergoing having cancer treatments and all kinds of stuff going on.

658
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:02,080
So he says, you know how to do this, right? I go, yeah.

659
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:05,840
Yeah. I said, that's what I used to do.

660
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:11,920
If I had a seminar in, in New York, I would try to book something.

661
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:18,640
Yeah, I shouldn't say that for quite a bit, but when it was my own deal, I would drive.

662
01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:22,960
When it was, when it was a corporate deal, they would always pay for the flight.

663
01:09:22,960 --> 01:09:25,520
So, yeah, of course. Yeah.

664
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:30,080
Yeah. Some of that was charter. So that was nice.

665
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:32,320
Just go there and jump in the plane and fly away.

666
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:37,600
That Miami show, Reno, Dallas.

667
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:42,640
And so Miami would still want someone to come in and talk about why.

668
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:46,880
No, but the sponsor would want you there to sell boats.

669
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,400
Yeah. Yeah. So you'd go down and do that.

670
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:56,160
And, you know, it was, they were opening a new bus, south sponsor by Bass Pro.

671
01:09:56,160 --> 01:10:02,320
So, you know. So at that point, when you get to that level,

672
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:10,640
they sponsor electrical. So it flighted Dallas, landed Dallas, Fort Worth,

673
01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:19,280
and this Bass Pro. So you get there and there's a limo driver with your name.

674
01:10:19,280 --> 01:10:25,600
And you get down there and you jump in, they drive you right straight to the show.

675
01:10:26,400 --> 01:10:31,840
You know, you get there, you walk in, big celebrity and all that crap.

676
01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:38,160
And sit down and sign autographs. And, you know, they're going, they know me because

677
01:10:38,160 --> 01:10:43,200
they have no idea, but they did. And it's like, oh man, I feel bad for you.

678
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:47,280
You know, you'll be down here in Bass Country in Palobani.

679
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:52,880
They bring you a stack of your picture of a sign with your stats on it.

680
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:53,840
So we already stacked.

681
01:10:53,840 --> 01:10:56,480
And so that's what you're always well-green, Grantson.

682
01:10:57,440 --> 01:11:05,280
Well, my mom's 96. She's my biggest fan, but my mom is my second biggest fan.

683
01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:11,680
Because that was her dad and her husband, my dad, who taught me how to fish.

684
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:18,080
So she goes to these events I speak at and she just stands up and birds it right out.

685
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:30,160
Yeah, she's pretty proud. So that always makes, it's nice to have parents.

686
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:34,880
It's probably, you know, and I'm glad she's still around. And she's doing great.

687
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:43,280
Yeah, lives alone. That's all her own stuff. Doesn't bother at all.

688
01:11:43,440 --> 01:11:48,880
Goes down by the river, down that river bay, down the stuff.

689
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:57,360
Talk for an hour or two. He's big on putting pieces in. I'm big on questions.

690
01:11:58,800 --> 01:12:05,520
That is so foreign to the frenetic life I used to live. They just sit there and put a puzzle

691
01:12:05,520 --> 01:12:13,520
together. But I have to do it. So when she gets it out, I have to do it.

692
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:18,320
Yes, to do it. And I have to get it done as soon as possible. So still for that, I can still

693
01:12:19,360 --> 01:12:26,480
still competitive. Yes, he is that way. And we watched Jeopardy. And every day at 4.30,

694
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:33,840
and we sit together holding hands and we watched Jeopardy. And he answers all the questions.

695
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:40,000
I get one or two in an hour. She's like, how do you know that? And why do you know that?

696
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:47,520
Some of them are so off the grid. I don't know. But it's just, I don't know, I retain information.

697
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:54,800
Well, he's not very used to it, at least. And you know, that story, I've forgotten more about

698
01:12:54,800 --> 01:12:58,960
fishing. I think it's going on a fishing talk. I can, I remember everything.

699
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:06,400
And you add a few things to it to make it. That I don't. It's more fun.

700
01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:18,560
This is all about detail. And yeah, he's just, you can't, nope, he can't be like I can only,

701
01:13:18,560 --> 01:13:26,640
you know, I mean, just one like I can only don't try to be like him. He's nuts. And, but he's also,

702
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:33,360
he's either the top of the mouth or the bottom of the cliff and on, you can't be that either.

703
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:43,280
So, and I like Mike. Mike has Mike's gotten older, he's smelling a little bit, but, and a lot of that was

704
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:50,560
stick. I mean, that's not the real Mike. I can only seriously, a lot of that was just part of the

705
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:57,600
show, but that's okay. You know, that's, that made him a career. You know, they don't,

706
01:13:58,400 --> 01:14:03,680
media don't like boring people. You know, you have, you know, they want people that person.