turning to Wisconsin as a key battleground situation.
I'm going to take a look at this.
I'm going to take a look at this.
I'm going to take a look at this.
I'm going to take a look at this.
I'm going to take a look at this.
Unfortunately, Wisconsin has a key battleground state in the November elections.
It's game on.
this past Tuesday's primary elections across the country
cemented Donald Trump and Joe Biden as the major party candidates for president,
again candidates for U.S. senate and Wisconsin are also out of the campaign shoot.
we check in now with our political panelists Republican Bill McCutcheon and Democrats
got Ross.
And nice to see you guys again.
I mean, we have one candidate described officially as old and forgetful and another as an indicted
threat to democracy.
Given that, who is in a better position here?
Bill?
Well, first of all, most polls over the last several months have said this is the race
no one wanted.
Two-thirds of voters said they didn't want to rematch from 2020, yet here we are.
It's Groundhog Day in America.
We have not seen anything like this, a rematch of previous contenders in 68 years.
Ike versus Adley Stevenson was the last time we've seen anything like this, the last time
we saw a former president run against a current president was 134 years ago, Grover Cleveland
against Benjamin Harrison.
So it's pretty rare.
We should dare make a Biden joke.
It's pretty rare in American politics, and this race, I think, is already baked.
There's not a lot of undecideds.
Everybody knows these two people.
They either think Biden's old or they think Trump's got issues, ethnic issues.
So, you know, I hope it's not a battle to the bottom, but I'm hoping that both of them
can elevate the game and inspire America and win the job, but we'll see over the next
eight months.
This will be the longest presidential general election we've ever had.
Yeah.
And a bloodbath.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But what about you?
Who do you think is in a better position given the descriptions of these two candidates?
Let's say this.
So, your house is on fire, and he got an 81-year-old guy who comes from Scranton with a bucket
of water fire hose.
And he got a guy, a 77-year-old from New York or Florida who comes with a gallon of gasoline.
Which one are you going to hire to do the job that needs to be done, which is to put the
fire out in your house?
I mean, I think that this is Biden's race to lose, but they've got to do all the work.
And I care about Wisconsin.
And clearly, what happened in 2016 is never going to happen here again.
Like they will invest, they were investing heavy.
At the same time they're doing all that investing here, you got the stuff with the RNC,
where they're, you know, they've lost dozens of staffers.
They just announced they're closing all the minority outreach centers in places like Milwaukee.
And you've got, you know, you've got a candidate who now is taking over the RNC.
And you don't know if, you know, they're going to spend his money on Hovtey and Van
Orton, or they're going to spend it on his legal bills.
You know, I think there's a, you know, there's a lot there on the issues I think Biden has
at top to bottom, starting with abortion, first and foremost.
Let me just stay with you and ask what you think Biden has to do in Wisconsin.
He was in Milwaukee this week, obviously.
There were protesters there, pro-Palestinian protesters.
What does he have to do to win Wisconsin?
Well, I think he has to do what he keeps doing, which is coming to the state, investing the
resources and talking about both his record when it comes to 15 million jobs, the biggest
infrastructure investment we've had, maybe in American history with roads, bridges, and
rail, and talking about the differences on abortion, you know, on Medicare and Social
Security, which Trump this week said, we need to cut, you know, those are real problems
for Trump because his voters rely on those things more than Democratic voters do in some
regards.
And so he's literally cutting off his nose despite his face.
Bill, you can respond to that, but I have another question as well.
So I'm somewhat amazed that I'm saying that Donald Trump, I believe, is in the front-runner
spot right now, nationally, all national polls, most national polls.
I think there are a couple that show Biden and the lead, all the rest show Trump and the
lead, and it hasn't leading in some critical states like Michigan.
ABC Ipsos had him up three points in Michigan, and the pro-Palestinian movement is part of
Biden's problem there.
As it relates to Wisconsin, I would give Donald Trump and his team this advice writ large.
Less is more.
I would go golfing for the next eight months.
I would do what Biden did in 2020.
I think these rallies that he has are very dangerous because he's very undisciplined on
the stump.
I think if he says less, he wins this thing easily.
If he engages all the way along for the next eight months, it's going to be a coin toss.
So what is it like for establishment Republicans to go all in for Donald Trump in Wisconsin?
Well, he's the option, right?
I mean, guys like me, or I wanted someone who could serve two terms, who was more conservative,
I lost.
So for me, I'm hopeful that he'll pick someone as his running mate that will appeal to the
suburban voters.
Donald Trump did not do well with suburban voters in the state of Wisconsin, and in multiple
other swing states in 2020, he has to fix that in this election.
If he picks a sycophant, who just is loyal to him, fiercely loyal to him, I don't think
that changes the dynamic for his election.
He needs to pick somebody who looks like the future of the Republican Party.
I agree with what Bill's saying.
He should do that.
I don't think he will.
He's going to pick a sycophant.
And when you're talking about the suburban voters, two things, abortion and the fact that
he's currently trying to pay off a defamatory suit against him by a victim of his sexual
assault.
And I think that's, you know, if suburban women voters weren't turned off by abortion,
that's just the nail in the coffin.
I think, again, you've got to do the work.
But it's a real, the top two issues are immigration or the border and the economy.
And Trump's right side up on those.
He's plus 10, at least, on both of those issues.
So if the election's about those two issues in the fall, he's going to win.
It's interesting the issue of the economy.
I mean, I guess it's housing costs that are making people think that it's bad.
But by other metrics, it's just not.
You know, the biggest, I mean, the most robust stock market in American history, 15 million
jobs over the first four years.
I mean, these are things that you cannot deny, but there's always going to be something.
There will be something that is latched on to say, this is why it's not working.
And you know, that's just something that the Biden campaign has to deal with.
I surprise you, I'm going to stipulate that a lot of the economic data is good for the
president.
It is not translating into support at the ballot box.
Voters don't feel it.
They don't see it.
And unless and until they do, it's going to benefit Donald Trump.
So turning the page a little bit here since the last time we talked, it has been determined
that Wisconsin was the genesis of the false elector scheme.
Bill, do voters care about this?
I don't think they pay a lot of attention to it.
I don't think we've heard the last of it.
I think there's more to come on that whole issue.
But one thing that's surprising to me is all the legal cases that have gone against Donald
Trump over the last 12 months and those that may be coming haven't hurt him politically.
In fact, it made him stronger.
He was able to vanquish some pretty talented people in the primary without much effort.
He never got on the debate stage, barely spent any money.
And the elections weren't close.
I want to give you a shout out to him.
Yeah, I don't know.
I mean, you know, the GOP cult right now is for Trump and that's the way that it is.
So it's difficult.
I think on the election stuff, you know, the party continues to be election denying.
The Republican party continues to be election denying.
I personally think that the false electors should be prosecuted.
I think Ron Johnson should be prosecuted for his role.
And the reason is, is because not holding them accountable just means that the next
electors will do this in 2024 when the race will be close.
You know?
But if you look around the country, where Trump challenged 150,000 votes, 80,000 votes
in Pennsylvania, 33,000 votes here, 12,000 votes here, 20,000 state of Wisconsin, they're
going to deny the election if Trump doesn't win.
I want to get to the U.S. Senate race.
Republican Arikavdi is down the race.
He wasn't the last time we spoke.
Are his deep pockets a threat?
I'll go to you.
I think that two big, three big challenges that Arikavdi has.
First, is that he's facing an incredibly formidable candidate in Tammy Baldwin, who has bipartisan
support across the board for the, for what she has done for the state of Wisconsin, the
Derry Pride Act, the ACA, and letting, you know, 26-year-olds be on their health care,
the issue of abortion, and, you know, by America, those things, things that were made
permanent by, you know, put in place with Trump's signature made permanent by President
Biden.
How have these...
So that's his first challenge.
His other two challenges are a little bit, you know?
He's very clearly running his own campaign, and a bill, you know, I mean, any candidate
who's trying to run their own campaign is a disaster in waiting.
And the third point, I would say, is that he's trying, his ads, he's trying to create
a call to personality around himself, you know?
And there's only one call to figure in the GOP, and that's Trump.
We're going to agree on the first part.
Tammy Baldwin's going to be a tough out.
I think your viewers should be reminded that only one statewide incumbent lost anywhere
in the country in 2022, and that was the governor of Nevada.
So, beating a statewide incumbent is a very high mountain to climb.
Having said that, I think Arikavdi's off to a very, very good start.
I believe he's cleared the field.
I don't think he'll have a primary, which will allow him to manage his resources better.
Tim Michaels, two years ago, was spending roughly a million dollars a week to beat Rebecca
Clayfish in the primary.
I think he won't have to spend that kind of money to get through the primary.
But he's got to introduce himself to Wisconsin.
I think they've been nimble on their feet so far.
I like the fact that he's advertising in Dane County, because a Republican cannot get swamped
in Dane County and Milwaukee County and win statewide.
So I give him an A for his first month on the campaign trail.
We need to leave it there.
Bill McConcio and Scott Ross.
Thanks very much.
Thank you.
For more on this and other issues facing Wisconsin, visit our website at pbswisconsin.org and
then click on the news tab.
That's our program for tonight.
I'm Frederica Frybert.
Have a good weekend.