In state education news, Republican lawmakers want to change the way the Department of Public
Instruction now scores standardized tests for third through eighth graders. That's because last year
DPI changed the cutoff scores needed to be proficient in reading or math, resulting in scores in 2024
being about 10 points higher than the year before. The new forward exam scoring also no longer aligns
with the more difficult national tests known as the nation's report card. A bill now before
the legislature would require DPI to revert back to the previous scoring model. Chair of the Senate
Education Committee, Republican Senator John Jagger authored the bill and thanks very much for being here.
Oh thank you for having me. So why don't you like the new scoring methods on the statewide
forward exam? For multiple reasons I think it gives a false sense of what our kids are doing and where
they're at. But you know with a bigger picture point here is it doesn't align. We have no way of
tracking data from previous years because and DPI admits this that the way that they have blown up
the scoring system, we can't go back and look. We can't see how the kids from the COVID pandemic,
those kids that were kindergarten first grade, are they catching up? The kids more importantly
that are almost entering the workplace. The seventh graders who are now high school juniors
and seniors, where are they? Have they caught up from that that last year? And we can't track
that data anymore. And you know as I traveled around the new district, the new 13th Senate
district picked up a ton of geographical territory. And that meant a lot of new superintendents,
a lot of new school districts. And the first thing I did was meet with law enforcement and
meet with my school superintendents. And they were taken aback because they were not consulted.
They had no idea this came. And here we are. They don't know if some of the innovation
they're doing with literacy programs are working. They have no way of going back and tracking.
And then the easiest point is we should be expecting our kids to do better. We should set
high standards, not lower them. So Governor Tony Evers has also been critical of the new scoring,
saying just that that we should have the highest standards possible. But why should legislators
decide on learning assessments over educators? And should new directives come with more funding
like the $50 million for phonics instruction? I don't think you can conflate the two issues of
saying it should come with more funding. I mean, why should we get involved? Well,
honestly, I wish we wouldn't have to. This was done in a closed situation where
there was a list of just under 100 administrators or school officials or people that they talked
to for this process. But they did this in a vacuum. And it came out. And it came out,
let's be honest, politics is part of everything. It came out in a very weird time to roll back
these standards to make our kids look better, which in effect it did in an election year for
the superintendent. That's a little odd. But what per my year was my superintendent saying,
we don't agree with this. We weren't part of this. We don't know where this came from.
And then when he had the governor first saying flat out, you know, because those were his standards
that he said she she they rolled back the Department of Public Instruction rolled back the governor's
standards, the education governor. So he caught my interest when he said we shouldn't be lowering,
we should be expecting high standards. And then he kind of pivoted a little bit to
criticizing the process that it was done behind closed doors without any input from stakeholders.
And he was right on both counts. Apart from the scoring, why does the bill also call to
revert back to how the scores are described? For example, instead of below basic as previously to
developing? Just to go back for consistency. And one of the things that I had heard in an interview
was, well, if you tell a parent that their kid is below basic, that's harmful. That's hurtful
language. I'm sorry. That's just weak sauce to me. That's soft. As I said in the committee hearing,
you know what hurts a kid's social mental health and hurts a kid in the class is when he can't read.
And we should be focusing on that rather than what these labels say. And like I said, it goes
back. The reason why we went back is it's almost like just a reset point. And unfortunately,
we're going to lose this year's data. But I think it's worth it to go back and create some
consistency and also create it so we can compare ourselves with NAIP, the national standards and
see how we're doing. How do we possibly know when you're talking about investing billions of dollars
in education, what is the return going? How are our kids doing? How are these educators using
those dollars that we commit to make sure our kids can read? And the troubling part about it is
this whole issue about rolling back the standards came when the NAIP scores came out this week.
And it should be a shock for everybody. The numbers in Milwaukee are, you know,
we're talking the worst scoring for fourth graders in the nation for black kids in Milwaukee. The
achievement gap is still the lowest in the country. But the eighth grade kids are also
just just floundering and shouldn't be acceptable to anybody. And you can it,
you know, the old line I was joking, it's Super Bowl week. You can't achieve perfection if you
don't strive for excellence. You know, if you strive for perfection, you reach excellence.
That's what Vince Lombardi always said. And I think it's right on this count. We should be
expecting more. On that racial achievement gap, 51% of Wisconsin White students overall tested
proficient in math, 5% of black students. What responsibility then does the state have to narrow
that gap? Well, we need to look at all at all sources, you know, where this is coming from,
where the breakdown is. And it is poverty. A lot of these numbers are driven down quite honestly by
what's what's happening with NPS and the NPS scores on a Milwaukee. And you talk about a
school district in total disarray and accounting disarray, a health situation disarray with it,
with the lead poisoning news from this week, disarray from bringing in staff, the comptroller
is gone after three weeks, disarray in and just about every aspect that you can you can come from
or you can talk about. And it it doesn't surprise it shouldn't surprise anybody that it's a disarray
and failure over kids. We need to leave it there, Senator John Jaggler. Thanks very much.
Appreciate it.
Thanks. Yeah, this is very interesting. Yeah.
Thanks. We'll be following, of course. Okay. Yep. Appreciate any time. Any time, like I said,
next time I'll be, I'll be prompt. I apologize. I know how it is to be on the
of the phone or of the microphone. I'm sorry. No worries. We're not live. We're good. Thank you.
Have a good weekend. You too.