In state education news, Republican lawmakers want to change the way the Department of Public Instruction now scores standardized tests for third through eighth graders. That's because last year DPI changed the cutoff scores needed to be proficient in reading or math, resulting in scores in 2024 being about 10 points higher than the year before. The new forward exam scoring also no longer aligns with the more difficult national tests known as the nation's report card. A bill now before the legislature would require DPI to revert back to the previous scoring model. Chair of the Senate Education Committee, Republican Senator John Jaggler, authored the bill and thanks very much for being here. Oh thank you for having me. So why don't you like the new scoring methods on the statewide forward exam? For multiple reasons I think it gives a false sense of what our kids are doing and where they're at. But you know with a bigger picture point here is it doesn't align. We have no way of tracking data from previous years because and DPI admits this that the way that they have blown up the the scoring system we can't go back and look. We can't see how the kids from the COVID pandemic those those kids that were you know kindergarten first grade. Are they catching up? The kids more importantly that are almost entering the workplace the seventh graders who are now high school juniors and seniors. Where are they have they caught up from that that last year and we can't track that data anymore and you know as I traveled around the new district the new 13th Senate district picked up a ton of geographical territory and then a lot of new superintendents a lot of new school districts and the first thing I did was meet with law enforcement and meet with my school superintendents and they were taken aback because they were not consulted. They had no idea this came and and here we are they don't know if some of the innovation they're doing with literacy programs are working. They have no way of going back and tracking and and then the easiest point is we should be expecting our kids to do better. We should set high standards not lower them. So Governor Tony Evers has also been critical of the new scoring saying just that that we should have the highest standards possible. But why should legislators decide on learning assessments over educators and should new directives come with more funding like the 50 million dollars for phonics instruction? I don't think you can conflate the two issues of saying it should come with with more funding. I mean why should we get involved? Well honestly I wish we wouldn't have to. This was done in a closed situation where these there was a list of just under 100 administrators or school officials or people that they talked to for this process but they they did this in a vacuum and it came out and it came out you know let's be honest politics is part of everything. It came out in a very weird time to roll back these standards to make our kids look better which in effect it did in an election year for the superintendent. That's a little odd but what what per my year was the my superintendent saying we don't agree with this we we weren't part of this we we don't know where this came from and then when you have the governor first saying flat out you know because those were his standards that he said she she they rolled back the department of public instruction rolled back the governor's standards the education governor so he caught my interest when he said we shouldn't be lowering we should be expecting high standards and then he he kind of pivoted a little bit to criticizing the process that it was done behind closed doors without any input from stakeholders and he was right on both counts. Apart from the scoring well why does the bill also call to revert back to how the scores are described for example instead of below basic as previously to developing? Just to go back for consistency and one of the things that I had heard in an interview was well you know if you tell a parent that their kid is is below basic that's that's harmful that's that's hurtful language that's I'm sorry that's just weak sauce to me that's that's that's soft as I said in the in the committee hearing you know what you know what hurts a kid's social mental health and and and hurts a kid in the classes when he can't read and we should be focusing on that rather than what these labels say and like I said it goes back the reason why we went back is it's almost like just a reset point and unfortunately we're going to lose this year's data but I think it's it's worth it to go back and and create some consistency and also create it so we can compare ourselves with NAPE the national standards and see how we're doing how how do we possibly know when you're talking about investing billions of dollars in education what is the return going how are our kids doing how are these educators using those dollars that we commit to make sure our kids can read and the the troubling part about it is this whole issue about rolling back the standards came when the NAPE scores came out this week and it should be a shock for everybody it the numbers in Milwaukee are you know we're talking the worst scoring for fourth graders in the nation for black kids in Milwaukee the achievement gap is still the lowest in the country but the eighth grade eighth grade kids are also just just floundering and and and shouldn't be acceptable to anybody and and you can it you know the the old line I was I was joking it's Super Bowl week you can't can't achieve perfection if you don't strive for excellence you know if you strive for strive for perfection you reach excellence that's what Vince Lombardi always said and I think it's it's right on this count we should be expecting more on that racial achievement gap of 51 percent of Wisconsin white students overall tested proficient in math five percent of black students what responsibility then does the state have to narrow that gap well we need to look at at all at all sources you know where this is coming from where the breakdown is and it is poverty a lot of these numbers are driven down quite honestly by what's what's happening with NPS and the NPS scores on a Milwaukee and you talk about a school district in total disarray and accounting disarray a health situation to disarray with it with the lead poisoning news from this week uh disarray from bringing in staff the controller is gone after three weeks uh disarray in and just about every aspect that you can you can come from or you can talk about and it it doesn't surprise it shouldn't surprise anybody that it's a disarray and failure over kids we need to leave it there senator john jagler thanks very much appreciate it thanks yeah this is uh very interesting yeah thanks we'll be following of course okay yep appreciate any time anytime like i said next time i'll be uh i'll be prompt i apologize i know how it is to be on the of the phone or of the microphone i'm sorry no worries we're not live we're good thank you have a good weekend you too