WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:20.680 prediction betting markets draw billions in wagers on everything from World Cup outcomes 00:20.680 --> 00:28.040 to now elections. Kelsey, which describes itself as the next generation financial exchange, 00:28.040 --> 00:33.680 this month launched a midterms hub designed, they say, as the one stop shop for state 00:33.680 --> 00:39.760 and federal election forecasting and betting. Not so fast, says the Wisconsin Elections 00:39.760 --> 00:45.040 Commission. Commissioner Ann Jacobs is here. And thanks for being here. 00:45.040 --> 00:48.880 Happy to be here. So the commission recently put out some guidance 00:48.880 --> 00:56.400 to voters about betting on the outcomes of elections. What did that say? 00:56.400 --> 01:03.440 The guidance we sent out to voters basically summarized what has been Wisconsin law since 01:03.440 --> 01:12.800 about 1849, which is you cannot bet on an election and vote in that election. 01:12.800 --> 01:17.680 So what are the penalties for putting a wager on an election? 01:17.680 --> 01:23.200 There's two sort of penalties for it. Number one is someone could challenge your ballot 01:23.200 --> 01:30.080 and have it not count. And the second one, which is far more draconian, is it is actually 01:30.080 --> 01:34.640 a class I felony to bet and vote in the same election. 01:34.640 --> 01:39.280 How would anyone find out whether you had done that or not? 01:39.280 --> 01:45.360 I get asked that question quite a bit. And the answer is the same way crimes are reported 01:45.360 --> 01:54.800 to authorities of all types. A spurned spouse or boyfriend, girlfriend, 01:54.800 --> 02:02.920 a disgruntled employee, an agitated neighbor, someone who you promised to share the money 02:02.920 --> 02:09.920 with and then didn't share the bet results with. That's how these sort of things are reported. 02:09.920 --> 02:17.200 How could betting the outcome warp the process even tips the outcome? 02:17.200 --> 02:23.200 There's a few ways it could. I mean, one of which is sort of on the very personal level. 02:23.200 --> 02:27.320 You are no longer voting for the person you think would be best in the position. You're 02:27.320 --> 02:32.520 now voting for someone who can line your pockets. And that's a corruption of the process on 02:32.520 --> 02:43.240 a very individual level. In theory, you could have people within a campaign go out to place bets 02:43.240 --> 02:52.440 to try to tilt the prediction markets, to create a false sense of momentum or antipathy towards 02:52.440 --> 02:57.800 a given candidate. So it could be an attempt to manipulate it at a much larger level. 02:57.800 --> 03:01.960 What about the argument that wagering on an election actually gets people who wouldn't 03:01.960 --> 03:10.440 or nearly be interested in voting involved in the process? I find that so odd. We want 03:10.440 --> 03:15.480 them to come into the process to vote not for the person that they think is going to be best, 03:16.200 --> 03:23.320 but to try to make money. That's sort of a warped view of elections. We want people to vote. I 03:23.320 --> 03:27.960 want people to vote. I hope everyone goes out and votes on August 11. But I want you to go out 03:28.040 --> 03:33.400 and vote because you believe that is going to be the best person for the job at hand. 03:33.400 --> 03:36.840 What is your reaction to Kelsey's new midterms hub? 03:39.240 --> 03:47.880 You know, apparently there is great enthusiasm for this as I accidentally learned by posting on 03:47.880 --> 03:55.480 social media about this law. And people take it quite seriously. I don't have any opinion one 03:55.480 --> 03:59.640 way or another about prediction markets, whether they're good or bad, legal or not. 04:00.760 --> 04:05.240 All I care about is I don't want people to accidentally commit a felony 04:06.360 --> 04:11.480 by voting and betting. You can vote. You can bet. You just can't do both. 04:12.040 --> 04:16.600 Does this put the Wisconsin Elections Commission squarely into a fight with a very, 04:16.600 --> 04:24.920 very moneyed interest? I hope not because we're one of something like 35 states that have this 04:24.920 --> 04:31.800 same law. The policy behind the law is sound and has been that case for 100 and 04:32.680 --> 04:38.760 however many years it's been. So we really need to think about whether or not we want 04:39.720 --> 04:47.240 our elections to be governed by money making or by efficacy in government. 04:47.960 --> 04:52.040 On another matter, what is your reaction to this week's court ruling that upholds 04:52.040 --> 04:57.720 WEC guidance that you opposed saying early absentee voters can't get a do-over even if 04:57.720 --> 05:03.800 their candidate dropped out? Now that's with nearly 130,000 early ballots cast and another 05:03.800 --> 05:10.520 candidate this week dropping out. I was obviously very disappointed in the outcome. I have been 05:10.520 --> 05:20.040 on the commission since 2016. It was our guidance at all times until the court put it on hold. 05:20.920 --> 05:25.080 And now we've issued this new guidance for the very first time without 05:25.080 --> 05:29.880 alerting voters. It was coming and I was very disappointed in that outcome. 05:29.880 --> 05:33.000 All right. We leave it there, Commissioner Anne Jacobs. Thanks so much. 05:34.040 --> 05:34.520 Pleasure. 05:38.920 --> 05:41.400 Thank you. That was perfect. Like your backdrop. 05:43.560 --> 05:47.800 Thank you, Frederica. It's always fun to see you. When I was in college, 05:47.800 --> 05:57.160 you were Frederica Rungi and were on the news. Yes. And so that was when I first saw your face 05:57.160 --> 06:03.320 as a reporter. So I'm always sort of entertained when, you know, this many years later. I know, 06:03.320 --> 06:06.840 right? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what I think of high school reunion 06:06.840 --> 06:10.680 is this weekend. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. I don't know what I think I'm doing, but I'm still 06:10.680 --> 06:17.400 doing it. So I appreciate it. So thanks a lot. Have a great weekend too. Bye. 06:17.800 --> 06:19.560 Bye.