With more than 45 data centers in Wisconsin and more planned and announced in what feels
like every day, local communities already grapple with zoning issues and public pushback,
but now comes a state legislative bill to regulate the centers built by tech giants
like Microsoft and Meta to process artificial intelligence data.
Democratic state Senator Jody Habish-Cinnakin of Whitefish Bay is author of the bill and
Senator, thanks very much for being here.
Thank you.
I appreciate the invitation.
Why does Wisconsin need a law regulating these data centers?
Wisconsin currently has no laws on the books that provide any regulatory oversight with
regard to transparency, accountability for water usage, for energy rates, for those
community impacts that people are very concerned about.
So this legislation is intended to provide an overarching regulatory framework to fill
that current vacuum.
How much does the proliferation of these centers feel like the Wild Wild West?
A lot, very much so, as I have been hearing from my constituents and others around the
state, there is this recognition that in the absence of information, it creates worry
and distrust and uncertainty about the impacts not just on themselves and their families
and communities, but for our futures.
How does your bill protect utility rate payers or consumers?
It's a great question because we really wanted to focus on that in terms of the transparency
and accountability again.
Utility rates are already too high in Wisconsin and with winter coming down, it's very much
front and center on people's minds, especially in these uncertain economic times.
So what this bill does is it establishes a very large customer class which these big
data and data centers would fall into and that class would be responsible for the extremely
high energy production needs that they call upon, not individuals or families separate
from them.
How does it track water usage and to what end?
That's also a question that people have and a very legitimate concern.
People are very curious about how much water will be used, particularly from the Great Lakes
is what I hear a lot of.
And again, this bill is very focused on accountability and transparency, which is very much part
of Wisconsin's values and rather than allowing the water use to be hidden with some of these
non-disclosure agreements with utilities and the like, it requires the disclosure of
how much water will be used and in what fashion.
If the other thing your bill does is require construction workers who build the data centers
certain wages, is it your sense that they are currently underpaid?
It very much is trying to guarantee, again, this bill is not the end of the conversation,
it's starting the conversation with this overarching framework.
So when we talk about wages in our workforce, it's important that not just in community
by community, but statewide that there are community values being provided by these
data centers and certainly a high one of those is family supporting jobs.
In the face of a state law addressing data centers, how important in your mind is local
control?
Local control is where it all begins.
People don't always understand that, so I'm really glad you asked about that.
The idea of where these data centers will be placed and how the developments proceed
happened at the local level by local city officials and governments.
For the state legislators like myself, I feel we need to show up at the table from
the state level to provide some kind of uniformity and a regulatory framework again that helps
hold these big data centers and big tech accountable to Wisconsin.
What kind of bipartisan support do you have for this regulatory bill?
Well, we were just introduced it last week, but I'm again glad that you asked this because
I am very much hoping for bipartisan support for this bill.
Myself, I'm a Democrat, but my Republican colleagues are hearing from the same constituents
with the same concerns about property value impacts, water usage as we've already discussed,
energy rates, climate change concerns with regard for hopes for renewable energy, all
of that, but because the legislature is very much still controlled by the Republican in
both the Senate, Republicans in both the Senate and the Assembly, we need them to lean into
this interest in providing a regulatory framework for our state because they decide where the
bill will be assigned to what committee and whether or not there will be a hearing held.
And I really want to underscore the importance of a hearing because that's when the public
comes in and shares their thoughts, their concerns, their asks, and that's how bills
across the board become better.
That's the iterative process that is so important here, but we need Republicans to contribute
to that important next step.
All right.
Well, we leave it there.
Senator Habich, Seneca, thank you so much.
Oh, thank you very much.
Thank you.
That was excellent.
Really good.
Okay.
Thank you, Federica.
I appreciate that.
Was there anything that I didn't get to that you would like me to address?
The only thing, I had a question that got left on the floor just because we kind of ran
short of time, and that was I wanted to ask you how you believe data centers fit into
Wisconsin's economic landscape, not to mention its environmental landscape?
Yeah, I'd be glad to do what you'd like me to answer that now and just clip it in.
This bill was developed in what I understand is quite a unique way, which was building
coalitions between groups who don't necessarily always align in their aspirations.
Oil groups, union groups, utilities, and the like.
And it was a lot of cooks in the kitchen trying to work out a regulatory framework that moved
Wisconsin forward economically, environmentally, and the like.
So what's really important about this bill is that it provides for opportunities and
investment in something that is greatly needed in Wisconsin and actually across the country,
which is investment in renewable energy for wind, for solar, and for battery, et cetera.
And that type of investment is going to be incentivized under this bill because the big
data centers, if they reach 70% of all their electricity use is contributed to by renewable
energy, that's how they get that sales and use tax exemption.
So there's the carrot that really allows for that opportunity.
So Wisconsin will be better off economically and environmentally going forward.
Thank you.
Perfect.
Yeah.
Appreciate it.
Thanks.
Sorry, it was a little bit spacing out with between the solar.
I had a very dramatic pause after that, but I was thinking, wind, solar, in my mind,
I didn't know if that ever happens to you.
I was a very dramatic pause.
Well, it's very clear that you are a well-trained order and attorney.
So thank you.
Well, thank you, gosh.
Very high praise from you.
Thank you.
How can I watch this in the future?
How mostly can my 90-year-old father watch this?
This would be very important to get that to him.
I am.
That's correct.
Oh, thank you.
And I watch PBS just so you know.
That's how we watch all the debates and all my election coverage.
It's my most favorite vehicle.
So I know that I can find those stations also, but that your specific instructions will be
helpful.
I am already a fan of yours in real life and outside of this experience.
Well, we will make that into a promo, Senator.
So thank you very much.
No kidding.
No, I am very happy to, yes, I laugh at all these influencers who are wearing various
things.
I would probably wear on the weekends a PBS T-shirt or do anything to rep you, yes, if
you come in influencer.
Good news.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Have a good weekend.
Both of you enjoyed the pretty day.
You too.
Thank you.
Bye-bye.