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Brett
Homer's
drive you
alongside our value partners, the Wisconsin Public Education Network,
the League of Women Voters of Wisconsin, and the Wisconsin Early Childhood
Action Needed. I am pleased to be joined tonight by
members of my committee, Dorothy Harrell, from the
Beloit Branch, Valerie Davis, and Dr. Richard
Gregory, from Dane County Branch. For over a century, the NAACP
has championed the right to a high quality education
for all students. We believe that rigorous, well-resourced,
and student-centered public schools are the foundation
for a thriving society in that every child, regardless of background,
deserves access to an education that is engaging,
research-based, and prepares them for success in an evolving world.
Our organization remains committed to advancing policies
that uphold civil rights and ensures success for all students.
We sincerely thank Brittany Kenzer and Dr. Jill Underley
for their commitment to engaging this important conversation,
engaging in this important conversation. We recognize the critical role that the
next superintendent of public instruction will play
in shaping the future of Wisconsin schools, and we look forward to
working with the next leader to develop policies that strengthen literacy,
support educators, and empower students to become leaders
in the evolving landscape of education, not only in Wisconsin, but across the
United States. And a special thank you to our moderator,
Dr. Kevin Lawrence, Henry Jr., and to everyone joining us this evening.
Thank you so much, Tracy, and thank you, too, to our friends at the League of
Women Voters, and we can for co-hosting this event tonight.
My name is Heather Dubois Bernan, and I'm Executive Director of Wisconsin Public
Education Network. We are a nonprofit and nonpartisan
advocacy organization that connects public school supporters and champions
to information, actions, and each other so that we can be a stronger,
collective voice for all of the things that Tracy just named, that all of the
kids deserve in every public school, in every part of the state.
And we are excited today to dig into a conversation with two people who
are vying for the job of our champion in cheat, and who want to be the ones who
are going to lead the charge and making sure all the kids get all of their
needs met. And we are excited today to, first of all,
invite you to dig into our resources and make sure that you have all the
information that you need to vote. If you visit our website at
wisconsinnetwork.org slash election HQ, you can see lots of information about
the election and the candidates and more. And we want to thank Dr. Underley, first
of all, for joining us tonight and also for her thoughtful
responses to the candidate survey that we put out before the primary.
And we want to thank Ms. Kinzer too for joining us today and for
juggling her busy schedule to make this work after a little bit of a false start.
And we know that all of you are very excited to hear from them.
So it is my honor to introduce our moderator for the evening, Dr. Kevin
Lawrence Henry Jr. Kevin is an associate professor of educational
leadership and policy analysis at the UW Madison, where he is an award-winning
scholar of race, racism, and education policy and practice.
He has served as a member of the advisory council to the office of
educational opportunity at the universities of Wisconsin system.
And he is also a board member of the board of directors of our
governing board at the Wisconsin Alliance for Excellent Schools.
Kevin, thank you so much for taking on the big job of walking our candidates
through this conversation today and for sharing your expertise with us
tonight as well. Thank you so much, Heather. And I just want
to thank everyone for joining us tonight for this
important conversation as it relates to the next candidate or the next person
who will be the superintendent of public instruction for the state of
Wisconsin. I also want to thank all those who were
involved in organizing this event, but I also want to make some time to
thank the people that are here joining us tonight.
And I also want to say thank you to Dr. Underly as well as to
Ms. Kinzer who will be having a time with us to discuss these
critical issues. So I want to talk to you all briefly
just about the format of the event. Candidates will have
equal time to answer each question and follow-up responses will be limited
to one minute to maximize our time together and focus on
where the candidates stand on the issues that matter most to Wisconsin students
and their public schools. We have avoided questions that cover information
readily available online and candidates websites.
What we'll try to do is make sure that we're staying within the time
and if the candidate can help us stay on time we should have about 10 to 15
minutes for questions and answers at the end of the event.
Those participating in our Zoom webinar can use the question and answer
feature to ask questions for consideration and we'll also
ask the most pressing ones in any remaining time that we have and preference
will be given to questions that are centered on our core theme
which is closing the gaps for Wisconsin kids. So with that being said I want to
jump right in with our first question. I'm going to start with Dr. Underly.
What's your vision for ensuring all Wisconsin
public school students have access to academic excellence
and what specifically will you do to address specific
barriers to that access? Yeah well thank you so very much.
It's just really great to be here. I just wanted to thank again everybody who
put this together and Dr. Kevin Lawrence Henry Jr.
Ms. Kinser, W Penn NAACP League of Women Voters, Wisconsin Child Care Network.
Thank you all so much for for doing this. To answer the question
my my vision is that we all have every kid in Wisconsin has access to a high
quality public school education and I have the relationships. I have the
experiences and I have the deep knowledge of what it takes to lead
Wisconsin's public schools. I've built partnerships across the state and in
the legislature. I also hold the necessary credentials,
the licensing and the expertise to do the work but more than that you know I'm a
100% pro-public school and pro-public education is the
choice for the vast majority of Wisconsin kids and
what I've done specifically is we've proposed a budget
that puts kids first. It invests in mental health,
early childhood education, literacy, and high standards and we've seen results.
Wisconsin's moved from 14th in the nation for education in 2020 to 6th
in 2024 and now we have the highest graduation rate.
In our state's history and the progress that we've made is real
but our work isn't done so I'm committed to keeping Wisconsin public schools
strong and ensuring that every child has that opportunity to succeed.
Thank you Dr. Underley. Miss Kinzer.
Hi everyone thank you so much for the invitation and I'm looking forward to
the conversation today with Dr. Underley and with all the hosts.
So my vision for Wisconsin education is that 95% of children will be able to read
well enough to go to college, have a career or a meaningful job or master
of trade. Right now unfortunately three out of 10 children
are only reading well enough to go to college or have a career and in
Milwaukee where I live we have the worst outcomes for our Black students with only
5% of children reading well enough to go to college or have a career.
And that's why I'm running. I'm running to restore our high standards that were lowered
back in the in the spring. Restore them back to our nation's report card
levels that Governor Evers had set for us eight years ago and make sure that we are
refocused on teaching reading writing and math.
So all children can have a meaningful job go to college or master of trade.
Make sure that we are partnering with our parents because there are
there are child's first teacher and lifelong champion.
Ensuring that the billions of dollars that we do have in education is getting
into the classrooms rewarding our great teachers and having less bureaucracy
and ensuring that the Department of Public Instruction is transparent.
Predictable and innovative so that we can have an education system where 95% of
our children are reading well enough to be successful in college or have a career.
So thank you. Thank you Miss Kinzer. We'll actually start with you for this next question.
The Department of Public Instruction manages about 540 employees
and has responsibility to provide accurate timely and relevant support to all 421
of Wisconsin's public school districts. Please tell us
what specifically you will do to ensure these needs are met
and what evidence can you provide that you are competent and qualified
to perform this capacity. We'll then start with Dr.
We'll start after you answer Dr. Underlee will share her assessment
on her first terms and plans if elected but we want to start with you to answer
that question. Yes so that is so important that we have
strong relationships and we are being responsive to all of our
421 schools as you said throughout Wisconsin. That is definitely one of my priorities.
As I said we want to make sure that we are being transparent and predictable and innovative.
Right now it's very difficult to find information on the Department of Public
Instruction's website. I've already been researching some of the best practices around the country
bringing more transparency and predictability to the Department of Public Instruction,
bringing those best practices from other states. I'm really looking forward to that as I've talked
to people across the state whether it's school districts, school boards, needing the information
in a timely manner in an accurate manner. So I'm looking forward to that.
In any places that I have worked I have always met expectations with
reporting out, being able to transform different systems so that they are predictable and they
are high performing. So I've had that experience and whether I was working at the district level
in Chicago public schools, whether I was starting my own school, working in a network of charter
charter schools, public charter schools, or working at a nonprofit. I have been shown to be able to do
create systems that are effective and efficient. So thank you.
Okay thank you so much. We'll switch to Dr. Underlee. So after sharing your qualifications
please explain what have you done to meet these needs in your first term and what improvements
or adjustments you will make in your second term. Right so my qualifications, I'm a lifelong
public servant. I started 26 years ago as a teacher, social studies, and a large rural
comprehensive high school where I have a lot of students who are migrant students. Their parents
were migrant workers in the farm fields. And then I moved into a more high performing high school
which was much more affluent. I was also an elementary school principal, a middle high school
principal, and then a superintendent of a school district here in Wisconsin. I also worked at the
University of Wisconsin-Madison as an academic advisor for students who struggled in college
and were often first generation college students. I also worked at the Department of Public Instruction
in 2009 until about 2014 as a federal programs consultant in Title I and then also an educator
licensing assistant director. I just wanted to share you know like the support that we provide
school districts is really a lot of it is in advocacy and grant management. The duties of the
state superintendent you know obviously the leadership and the vision. I want to respond to
the criticism that only three and ten Wisconsin kids are college or career ready because I feel
that that is very misleading. Right now it's like when you look at the data that doesn't add up
because Wisconsin graduates every year go to college and technical school apprenticeship
or straight into the workforce and a graduation rate is at an all-time high and our schools rank
sixth in the nation. And so that's really you know what we're doing at the department is we're
providing this leadership. We're also providing the resources and the expertise and the technical
assistance to the 421 school districts so that they can do these work this work. We do it through
budget advocacy. We do it through mental health grants advocating for breakfast and lunch for
students so that they are ready to learn and also literacy programs too through act 20.
Thank you Dr. Underlee. I'm actually going to start with you for this next question.
I mean it's around our current teacher crisis and licensing requirements. And so licensing
and qualification has been a hot topic in this race as it relates to the credentials of the
candidates. But let's talk about how and what this means to Wisconsin's educators and the many
challenges they do face. What is your assessment of our current teacher crisis and what solutions
do you have and also with issues such as the teacher shortage and the need for more teachers
of color in the state. What are your perspectives on the issue of licensing and the need for greater
flexibility to address our state's needs. This is a great great question. We recently
every year the Department of Public Instruction puts out a report on the state of the educator
workforce and the news hasn't been great. I mean we do know that we're preparing enough teachers
in Wisconsin's educator preparation programs but we know that they're not staying in teaching
and the mobility between districts is at an all-time high. I do feel like a lot of this came out of
Act 10 back in 2011. That was at the time when we reduced funding to school districts. It was
around $600 per student and so our school districts were required to have to recoup some of those
costs and it fell on the backs of our teaching workforce. And ever since then it's been in crisis.
So funding is a big way that we can help solve this problem. We haven't been able to in our
school districts to give our employees any type of inflationary or cost-a-living increase
because we're not getting those types of increases in our school districts either. And so they're
being forced to go to referendum just to make operational ends meet. But funding could help
certainly reimburseing special education costs at a higher rate than the 29% that it is now
would give our school districts more spendable revenue. But salary is a big piece. When you're
going to college and especially if you're a first-generation college student or if you're
a person of color going into college and coming out as a first-time graduate,
teaching might be an attractive career but it isn't if you want to raise a family or be able to pay
off your student loans or a home. So we need to make sure that we are paying our staff what they
what they are worth. I mean it's really it's a commitment to valuing and supporting the
entire teaching profession. Teachers are the backbone of our schools and they deserve more
than just gratitude. They deserve ongoing support, sustained investment in the profession.
Teacher preparation programs and teacher apprenticeships are ways that we can look at
solving the workforce challenges. Thank you, Dr. Underley. Ms. Kinzer.
So I am committed to advancing reforms to Wisconsin's complex teacher licensure systems
and and welcoming qualified individuals to enter the teaching profession. I also believe that
alternative educator preparation pathways are essential to increasing the number of high
quality teachers in our schools. I'm open to collaborating with various groups and learning
from other states that have implemented successful programs. Finding a solution is going to really
require innovative ideas, a collaborative approach and we we have to act now to solve this problem.
Under my leadership at DPI, we'll support the growth and sustainability of alternative
educator preparation programs. You know, again, like I'm looking at what other states are doing
and working with other leaders throughout Wisconsin to assess innovative approaches to
address Wisconsin's education education shortage. For example, there's some examples out there.
Schools could alleviate the teacher shortage with their own teacher apprentices. Pathways,
similar to bipartisan programs in 30 other states that allow for two years of paid real life
experience before graduating. So as DPI superintendent, that will be one of my priorities to be making
sure I'm listening, learning and collaborating to ensure we have more alternative pathways and
ways to support our teachers in Wisconsin. Thank you. I'm actually going to ask a follow-up
as it relates, particularly to the second part of the question. As a college professor,
I spend time preparing those who want to go into administration, who want to go into education.
And the data is pretty clear on the importance of having educators of color in our classrooms
and particularly also having leaders of color in our classrooms. And Ms. Kinzer, if you could
talk a little bit more about how you think about the teachers of color shortage and what we might
be able to do in Wisconsin for that. Yes, so my last 10 years in Milwaukee,
I have been working with that, working in communities of color. And it was a goal to make sure that we
had more teachers from our community working in our classrooms. And so what we were able to do,
we supported paraprofessionals who wanted to be teachers, supporting them in finding
programs to go to school. We tried to find different alternative funding solutions because
it is very expensive to become a teacher in the setup we have nowadays. That's why I said we
need to be working on different ways for alternative pathways. Like that two years,
that would have, these programs that are in other states, being able to pay
people who want to be teachers while they're getting that work done in the schools would be
huge to be able to attract more people from communities that represent their students.
It's wonderful when you have people from the community working in the schools with their
students because it's at then a community school. And sometimes you get parents who come in and
want to be teachers. And again, that just like changes the whole dynamic. So I think it is very
important. And like I said, we have to come up with innovative ideas, but also let's implement
ideas. We know that are working in other states. We don't always have to reinvent the wheel.
And so a program that I use that I think could be useful for our communities too,
is when I was in Illinois, I received a special ed grant where if you, they gave your scholarship,
right? So they paid for your schooling as long as you taught for two years out of the first five
years out of college. And that helped too. So.
Thank you very much. And Dr. Underley, actually, I want to follow up on one of your comments,
particularly around teacher pay and increasing the pay of teachers. And could you talk a little
bit more about how you envision that? Like what does it mean for teacher pay folks to talk a lot
about it, but increasing teacher pay? But what does that look like for you?
Yeah. Well, I mean, we need to ensure that teachers are paid fairly for their hard work.
And, you know, while pay is ultimately determined at the local level, I have advocated for policies
that give districts more flexibility and resources to offer competitive salaries and benefits to
attract and retain talented educators. So like it's really it's tied up to revenue.
And when you look at the number of school districts that have gone to referendum in Wisconsin,
they're doing it because they need to and they can't keep the lights on. They can't pay their
staff. They can't give them raises. And teacher pay has lagged. It's 20% less right now than it was
15 years ago in real dollars. In other states, we're losing teachers from Wisconsin to other
states because they just can pay more. Illinois is a good example of that. But we also can't cut
corners when it comes to licensure. We have to make sure that our staff are fully licensed,
that they have the content knowledge, and then they have the classroom expertise. I've proposed
different items in my budget that expand on the programs that are already have in place,
like teacher apprenticeship and grow your own programs. I've also, you know, suggested in the
budget that we pay student teachers and we invest in teacher mentors who will support these new
teachers. But really, we have to look at the whole teaching profession and we have to make
sure that there's a growth and career ladders for people so that they can move up within teaching,
and lead teachers become specialists so that they don't feel that they have to go into
administration in order to earn more pay. And it's really important, especially for first-generation
college students and teachers of color. When you go into education or you major, let's say in math
or chemistry or English or any of the areas, and then you graduate from college and you have an
option of, you know, getting a job in the private sector, you know, that would pay two and a half
times what you would start as a teacher. It's really a no-brainer for a lot of people because
those skills are transferable. Okay, thank you so much. I will start this next question with
Ms. Kinzer. Wisconsin has some of the most shameful gaps in the nation and these gaps have widened
every year with budgets that segregate resources and opportunities away from priority needs.
On the most recent NAIP assessment, Wisconsin had the largest achievement gap in reading of any
state. Students of color, students with disabilities, students living in economically disadvantaged
households, including rural students, and students who are English language learners are most routinely
and disproportionately impacted by these policies. What accountability for closing these gaps,
what would accountability for closing these gaps look like in your administration?
We have got to take accountability at the state level for how our children are learning or not
learning. Like I said, we only have three out of ten children, according to our nation's report
card, as you called it NAIP, and for our black children in Wisconsin, it in Milwaukee, it's 5%.
It is not okay. This is a crisis. That's why I got into this race. We have got to hold ourselves
accountable. We have got to make it transparent. We have to make sure that it's easy for all of
us to know the information. Right now with Act 20, they're taking AIMS web testing in the early
grades for reading. We should, we know how students are doing. We know if they're, if they're
exceeding or not, if they have a small, if they need to have an individualized plan,
we need to make sure that parents are aware, school boards are aware, we're transparent about
that data. That's accountability first. And then ensuring our schools are getting the support they
need, like making sure that we have, you know, they're getting the, they're using the research
and evidence-based curriculum. They're getting the support with coaching if they need it.
We, we have to hold ourselves accountable. We have to set clear goals, growth goals,
and then proficiency goals, because we know the research, the research shows 95% of children
can learn how to read well enough if you're using science of reading and phonics in the early
grades. There is a town in Ohio that did not use balanced literacy for the past 30 years.
It's in, it's in the podcast told a story. If anyone, if anyone's listening wants to learn more about
the history of reading, told the story is a great, a great podcast. But there's this school in
Ohio, which is a great example. It's a Rust Belt town. 85% of children are living in socioeconomically
disadvantaged families, but they're all reading. They're all reading on grade level. It is possible.
So we have to take accountability for it and ensure our schools are getting the support they need,
making sure school boards have the information they need and the parents, and I know my time is up.
I actually want to, I'll wait until the music stops. This is the award. So I actually want
to follow up on that, particularly as it relates to the transparency and thinking about some of
the research based evidence that we do have across the United States, we see the importance of issues
around culturally relevant teaching, multiculturalism, ethnic studies, all of these being mechanisms
in terms of instruction that assist in lowering or lessening the gap, particularly for students of
color. You mentioned earlier about the disparities that we see, particularly in NPS and in Milwaukee
writ large, and those are communities that are overwhelmingly students of color. And so I'm wondering
if you could talk a little bit more about, for instance, instructional practices that have in
some ways come under attack as it relates to equity, as it relates to issues around diversity,
culturally relevant teaching, and how you might in your administration address that.
Yeah, so when I think about this, it's really important that kids learn how to read, right?
And if you don't know how to read, you don't have a future ahead of you. Like think about all of
us right here. I wouldn't be here today if I couldn't read. I wouldn't be in this room.
And so we have to make sure that we're using research and evidence-based curriculum,
and we have to make sure that our teachers are trained, they've been educated on how to teach
phonics. Like I went to a teacher school, I came out and had learned, I realized, oh my gosh,
I wasn't taught how to teach reading, and I was a special ed teacher. And so as I opened up schools
too, I found out many of my teachers also were not taught how to teach reading. And so we have to
make sure that our children have teachers in front of them, like you said, that are from the
community, but also are taught how to teach reading. And I think that is something that's so important.
And of course, culturally relevant stories that they're reading, but we've done it.
I lost that last little bit. Can you say that? Just repeat that last bit you were saying about
which part did you, sorry, I don't know the culture that the the
I said, of course, they need to have culturally culturally gosh relevant books in the classroom
that they're they're reading. But our two kids need to learn how to read so that they can access
those books. And so I'm making sure that we going back to the teacher pipeline to making sure that
there are teachers in the community in the classrooms. Okay, thank you. Dr. Underley, same question for
you. Yeah, thank you so much. I just want to kind of add or clarify something.
Brittany said earlier, the podcast is called sold a story, not told a story. It's sold a story
by Emily Hanford. And it's a great podcast. No, it's a great podcast. I recommend people
listen to it. But you know, with the racial achievement gaps, I mean, critics have argued that DPI has
failed to provide strong leadership on on closing these gaps. But what I would say is that
yeah, they're absolutely right. We should all be ashamed of it. These gaps are absolutely
unacceptable. But we we know how to solve the problem. But it takes money and it takes effort.
And it we know it works. It goes back 30 plus years to Tommy Thompson in his effort to
defund public schools and send funding to unaccountable voucher schools. And this goes back to the
refusal of the legislature to fund public schools and the efforts that they make to defund
public schools. And I say, give us the tools we need to do the work and we can get it done.
Give us the funding. But the laws that they passed prevent us from doing that. As I say,
we know it works. High standards for literacy and math, absolutely. High quality instruction,
early childhood programming, special education, well trained teachers, passionate teachers,
after school programs, career and technical education, engaging curriculum, mental health
support, and school nutrition, we know what works. And you see these items, you see these
programs, you see these policies in place in high performing school districts. And in the school
districts that don't have them, they also likely have facilities that are crumbling as well. And
again, it's like, we know what works. It takes money though to do it.
Thank you, Dr. Underlee. I'm going to follow up because you have we actually,
what's great, our next question is around funding adequacy. But I want to follow up.
I'm wondering how, you know, you've, you've had your first term and I'm thinking about
now I'm running out of time. I'm thinking about this question about working with legislators.
Because you've mentioned that twice. How do you approach this work? I mean,
could you talk a little bit more about this? We know we need more funding. But how do you
build that, that support? How do you build the bench for folks to actually come on board and to
do this necessary work around the funding? And I like how you phrase that, building the bench.
Because that's what we have been doing at DPI. We've been building this bench of leaders in DPI.
You know, civil servants, you know, who, you know, when I came in, we had to rebuild the agency. It
was COVID. And we had a lot of people retire. We didn't fill those positions in the interim.
And so when I came in, we had a lot of work to do. And we had to build up our teams again.
And one of those was, you know, a priority of building relationships with the legislature. And
I made it a priority to build relationships and foster productive dialogue, even when we don't
agree. And under my leadership, DPI has significantly improved our engagement with legislators. We've
taken a team approach to speaking with them nearly every day and testifying on key bills.
And this has created a more respectful and collaborative environment, even in the face of political
differences. Public education is nonpartisan. This position is nonpartisan. We work with both sides.
And we've successfully helped pass bipartisan legislation like Act 20.
Okay. Thank you, Dr. Underlee. I'll actually, this next question will start with you.
The relationship between funding and achievement or resources and results is complicated and
often politicized with districts increasingly forced to go to referenda to fund the basics.
How can we ensure accountability in terms of increased performance while also removing
barriers to achieving equity like the special education funding gap and ending our 16 year old
cycle of state budgets that have failed to keep pace with inflation? What specifically will you
do to ensure that the state is meeting its constitutional obligation to provide a sound
basic public education for every student? Yeah, this has been my goal. And it was
one of the very reasons I ran for state superintendent in 2021. It was because of funding and equity.
In 2017, I had the privilege of presenting. It was in Fennimore at Southwest Tech.
I had the privilege of presenting to the Blue Ribbon Commission on school funding.
I was a superintendent of a small school district in Southwest Wisconsin at the time.
And just educating legislators about the troubles that our school districts have making ends meet.
Since 2023, so since the last time we passed a budget, so the 2325 biennium, but since 2023,
it's around 50% of Wisconsin school districts had to go to referendum.
And you go back. I know I went back to act 10 with 2011 and when we lost around $600 per student,
but it goes back even further than that when they froze revenue limits in 1993 and our school
districts were locked in to whoever they'd been spending at the previous year. And we've been stuck
in these cycles of referendum ever since and especially low spending districts. And what we've
learned actually from assessment is we're very good at testing and finding out which school
districts have high poverty because there's a correlation between high poverty and low test scores.
And I'm not saying it's across the board or universal, but generally speaking. And so
we have to really look at our school funding formula. We also have to look at the fact that
we are funding two systems of schools, public schools. We're funding the public school system,
which accepts all kids, including students with disabilities. And then we're funding a voucher
system where we pay private school tuition and they don't take all students. And so when we
look at these large referendums in our cities, especially, there is a correlation between the
varieties and of the voucher program too and the expansion of vouchers. So we have to really,
we have to invest in our public schools if we're going to get through this problem.
And I will have to sue the legislature if they don't fund our public schools.
All right. Thank you, Dr. Underley. Miss Kinsley.
Can I go back and answer? You asked the question about working with lawmakers. Can I answer that
question? Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So I have a proven record of working with the legislature
and getting a bipartisan bill passed two years ago. That was, I worked with the Republican leadership,
also a Democrats in Milwaukee that signed on. So it was a bipartisan bill plus the governor's office.
And I think it's really important to be able to have those relationships because we do have to
work together to make sure that our children are getting the resources that they need.
And so I do have relationships with both majority leaders and Democrats in the legislature and
the governor's office. So I do want to do want to say that. So I think that is key to making sure
we get what we need for for our children. Okay. And then the other part was I just I'm just curious.
Can you talk about the design? I've only been in Wisconsin for about four years. Can you tell
us about the bill that was that you worked on? Yeah. So act 11 two two two years ago. So the last
budget, we were able to get more money for all students, all public schools, also some more money
for public charters and students who received the voucher program, the voucher, who live below a
certain income level, and also money for mental health. And so the governor, so it was the Republicans
plus five Democrats in Milwaukee and the governor's office signed that bill. So it was a group effort
to get more funding for all the schools and then some other areas that the governor prioritized.
Okay. Thank you. And so I just want to go back. I know we're kind of we're moving a little
in and out of time. And actually our next question is about vouchers in charter schools. But I do
want us to do want to give you an opportunity to answer this question around funding adequacy.
So I'll give you I think we've put the clock back on just to ensure that you can answer that question
for us. So one thing that I have learned as I have traveled over 12,000 miles in less than 100 days,
meeting with people all over the state is that everyone agrees that our funding formula
system is broken and we need an upgrade. Schools are operating with limited resources
and taxpayers are concerned and tired of actually paying the referendums. And as I said, I hear it
all over as I travel the state. So Wisconsin's funding formula needs to be modernized. And I
promise to be a leader in that. As I said, I have relationships on both sides of the aisle
and report the governor's office. We have to make sure that it's updated. We also need to make sure
that the reimbursement for special education is increased. Possibly there's 30 states across
the our country that don't use a reimbursement model. So a recent reimbursement model, like my
first year being a principal, I had 20% of my students were in special ed. I spent a million
dollars. So you had to take that. This is schools across our state. You have to take that out of
the general ed fund. And then you get reimbursed the next year. I think we got reimbursed at 30%
if I remember this is like 12 years ago. And so and now it's still 30%. So we have to increase
the special ed reimbursement. And it is we have to. And so I promise to work with districts across
the state and our legislature and the governor's office to to improve that. It's like as I watched
as Milwaukee leaders like Mayor Johnson and County Executive Crawley worked across the aisle,
attended meetings with Republican legislators and the governor and all the other stakeholders.
And they modernize the shared revenue formula that hadn't been changed for decades. So I know
that it's possible. I'm actually going to start the question. The next set of questions with you
is considered particularly as it relates to our questions or considerations around school choice.
So you did mention Act 11. And I'm just curious about if you could talk a little bit more
or describe your position on the impact of voucher and charter schools and what impact those
have had on students attending public schools or traditional public schools.
The impact. So living here in Milwaukee, we've had school choice for over
you know, three decades and almost half the children's families are choosing to send their
children to a public charter school or private charter school or private school. There's no
private charter schools private school with a voucher. And so we know from pulling that 60
percent of families want school choice. And so in Milwaukee, it is decoupled. It does not affect
the property taxes. It is state aid. It is a state program. So I have been on record for,
I was on the board of Wisconsin charter school advocates. I'm on record for saying decoupling
is a way to take that off of the tax bill and not complicate it for our public schools
and have it paid through state aid. So that's what the decoupling bill is. It didn't get through
this last time, but I am on record for decoupling.
Okay, we'll talk. That's actually the next question, but I want to give Dr. Underlea
an opportunity to address this one. And we can come back to talk a little bit more about decoupling.
All right. So, you know, I guess I just want to say that I strongly believe that public
dollars should be invested in public schools for all students regardless of their background
or needs have access to that high quality education. And what we're seeing is,
you know, studies from the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction have shown that, you know,
MPS students who are in the voucher program are not outperforming Milwaukee public school
students. You know, they're all scoring below the state average. And so my philosophy on this is
that we need to invest in the system that takes all kids, which is the public school. And we need
to make sure that we are investing in the teachers and we are investing in the curriculum
and we are investing in the facilities. And in the programs that will help all children be
successful. I am strongly against using public dollars to fund the private schools. The, you know,
Act 11 that Miskins are referenced before, you know, now we have high school voucher students
getting more money per student on their voucher than public school students in high school are
getting. And, and like I said, you know, the studies show that voucher school students in MPS
vouchers are not outperforming MPS students. And we also need to look at that
was in Milwaukee. We have 35 to 40 percent of the students are going on. These are MPS students.
They are going on to college after high school graduation. And we really need to start looking
at how we can continue to support again, a system that supports all students. You know, I also just
feel like again, this goes back to the school finance question. When we look at the referendums
and the sizes of referendums, we again need to make sure that we are using that funding
for public schools because they are the ones that are accountable to local school boards.
They've licensed their teachers fully. And again, they're the ones that are accountable to the public.
Thank you, Dr. Underlee. I actually want to start the next question with you. And this is a bit more
kind of delving into this question of decoupling. And so I'm just curious, what do you think
the proposals like the decoupling bill supported by voucher lobbyists that would guarantee
voucher funding directly through state aid as opposed to through the education budget?
And could you talk a little bit more also about how this policy change in funding private and
charter schools and that being implemented? How that would impact I guess our general
set of resources for public school students?
Oh, you're muted. I'm sorry.
Thank you. Sorry about that. Sorry about that. What decoupling does is it ties voucher funding
to public school finances leading, I mean, so concerns about the financial impact of public
schools and local property taxpayers is what I was referencing earlier. And what decoupling
legislation would do was it would fund voucher programs, I'm sorry, because it can mean a couple
different things depending on how I phrase it, it would fund voucher programs directly through
the state's GPR. Therefore, it would eliminate the need to reduce state aid to public school
districts for voucher students. So like when I talk about the money that is being transferred
from our public schools to voucher programs, it's because our state finance system for schools,
it's just one pot of money. And I've talked about this before where it's like pie. You've got this
pot and then the share for vouchers keeps getting larger and then the share for schools gets smaller
and it could lead to additional transparency. I just fear it wouldn't lead to additional
funding for public schools. Okay. Thank you very much. Ms. Kinzer, do you want to add anything?
I know you did mention the decoupling in your stance, but if there was anything else you wanted
to add. I do want to bring, I do want us to start talking about the children and families
that use the scholarship who live at a certain income level. We talk about vouchers as an object.
These are children. These are families. In Milwaukee, it's mostly black and brown families
living in poverty. And we're saying we're going to take this option away from them. I'm wondering
how often people who want to take away this option have gone into the communities and asked the
families. Why are you choosing to use the voucher to send your child to this school? Because I've
had those conversations and it really changes when you start thinking about the actual 40,000
families and children. And you hear from the families on why they're choosing this program.
That's been available to them for 30 years. And then to say that you're just going to cut it off
without any solutions and sending them to schools that are failing. We know what's going on at
MPS. Well, we kind of do, right? I just think we need to start talking about family.
Okay. I actually want to kind of follow up on that. How do we, or how do you more precisely
balance some of the data? We've talked about accountability. We've talked about transparency
and the importance of having data. How do we make sense of this perhaps desire for vouchers
in school choice and compare that or have that held in tandem with some of the data that suggests
that these schools are not inherently outperforming our traditional public school counterparts?
So when we talk about, let's, so it depends on the school, right? So there are some schools that
doing well in each of the sectors, right? Whether it's traditional public schools,
charter schools, private schools. So you look across the board. The elementary schools that are
receiving vouchers, they receive about $7,000 less than the traditional public school. So this
isn't dollar for dollar, right? Like it's, the money isn't following the child. And that was
something that was eye-opening to our Milwaukee families. When we were able to show them two
years ago, do you know, like we have this thing called school choice here? Some people don't even
know. They just, they've been here for 30 years and they have options, right? They grew up having
options. And so there are many families that send their child to all three different,
now one is at a private school, another child's at a charter school, another school, a child's at
a mockup public school. And they didn't realize the funding was different. They were actually very
upset. Again, this is the transparency. We have got to let our families know if you're going to
send your child to this school, you're getting about $5,000 to $7,000. But I think we've got to make
sure that we are informing families on all the issues. And then 100%, they should know how that
school is doing. They should know how much it's getting funded. And then they can choose what they
want to do. But I think we need to make sure, I believe that we need to make sure that we are
informing all families on all the issues. It really makes a huge difference. And it's exciting,
because people want to help and make change. Thank you. Okay, we're going to move a little
bit for it, because we are actually running out of time. But I want us to move to this question
around civics education and graduate requirements. And so this question actually comes from our
partners at the League of Women Voters of Wisconsin. What is your position on mandating a half credit
graduation requirement in civics education? And could you explain your answer a bit more on that?
And would you and would state funding be needed for you to support this or other legislative policy
proposals? Is that for me? Yeah, that's for you. Oh, I didn't know which one. So mandating a half
credit graduation requirement in civics education. I think civics education is very important. And
so I'm supportive of having the civics education requirement. I'm going to be honest. I don't know
the mandate. And I haven't talked with the League of Women Voters about this specific.
So I'm supportive of course of civics education. And would state funding be needed for you to
support this? I would have to look into the cost of that, to be honest. So of course,
I'm force of education. I'm not sure of the cost. I'd have to look more into that.
Thank you so much. Dr. Underly.
This is great because this is really near and dear to my heart. I'm supportive of civics education,
but I'm against additional mandates. And I'll explain that a little bit. But you know,
civics education is really important. At the Department of Public Instruction,
we already have released a civic scope and sequence. And that means districts have guidance
on implementing civics instruction, including the standard of loan courses. But it's scope and
sequence all the way from kindergarten through 12th grade. And what we learned when we were
doing this project was that many school districts in Wisconsin already offer civics courses. So a
mandate may not necessarily be, well, mandate may not be necessary. But we have to think about
the funding and the resources too. I mean, civics is incredibly important when you talk
about civil dialogue and being able to think critically about issues and to debate. If a
statewide requirement were introduced, it would require state funding to ensure proper implementation.
But I mean, because it includes materials, I mean, it's what we learned from the literacy
bell, right? It includes materials, professional development, resources for districts that do
not currently have a standalone civics course. But we also have to think about teacher licensing
and capacity issues too, because a new mandate would require properly licensed teachers because
in Wisconsin and social studies is where I think this would likely fall. To be licensed to teach
civics, you have to be licensed in government. Otherwise, it would be a challenge given the
current educator shortage, especially in rural areas, because without additional staffing
and licensure, a mandate could create an additional burden on schools. But I'm also in favor of local
control and flexibility. And so then rather than a mandate, I would favor encouraging and supporting
civics education through funding and professional development using the scope and sequence that
we developed, but also local decision-making. So if they want to make that part of the graduation
requirements, they can and they can implement civics in a way that is best fit for their students.
Okay. Thank you so much. All right. So we're going to actually start with you, Dr. Underlie,
for the next question, which is around child care. The governor's 2025-2027 budget requests
for special education includes measures intended to build relationships between schools and the
child care programs. Explain how this additional funding will better meet the needs of children
and their parents for those who qualify under IDEA. And this question is from the Wisconsin
Early Childhood Action Needed. I keep muting myself. It's like a habit. No, this is an issue
that's entirely near and dear to my heart, because when you look at high-performing school districts
and you look at where the healthy kids are, you know, and the happy families, I mean, child care
is a big piece of that puzzle. And, you know, with the year of the kid, I'm really hopeful
that we can come to some bipartisan agreement on that child care is a workforce issue. But it
also, I mean, studies show that when you invest in high-quality child care and preschool programs
in your school, the return on the investment is more than tenfold. Kids are doing better
in elementary school. They're doing better in literacy and math. They're scoring higher on
their achievement tests, but they're also healthier. They have more social skills. If they've got
special education needs, they're being identified earlier. And so what the governor's proposing is
this community-based school partnership program, which is a collaboration between public schools
and community organizations like nonprofits, local businesses, early childhood centers,
even higher education institutions. And it would provide accessible, affordable, high-quality
child care and early learning for families. And this would support working families
because it offers before and after-school programming, early childhood education,
wraparound services, it would expand access to early learning. Like I said, you know, by
integrating preschool and child care into the school system, and then would leverage community
resources, you know, to create the sustainable, locally-driven solutions to child care needs.
And how IDEA fits into this is inclusion of children with disabilities. I think that's
incredibly important, making sure that all kids are included. Early intervention, like I mentioned
before, which is part C of IDEA, and that serves infants and toddlers, birth to three, and then
preschool, special education, and training and licensing of teachers. And then of course,
we could also apply for more funding with IDEA with that to support inclusive learning environments.
Okay. Thank you so much. Ms. Kinzer.
I think it's, you know, early education is very, very important. And relationships and
collaboration with different programs or schools is something that I've always had to do,
especially since I came to Wisconsin, partnering with different organizations to support before
and after care for our students, and ensuring that there is high-quality programs in our preschools
and our K4. I know from teaching or having 125 little four-year-olds, my first year as a principal
here, we were able to implement a program with reading. Again, I'm going back to reading and
being able to teach a four-year-old how to read by the end of K4 was huge as I went into kindergarten
being prepared. And so, and being a special ed teacher, of course, we want to support our
students who are receiving special needs, you know, special needs resources and programs.
So I'm in support of making sure that we are partnering with programs to support our schools
at all times. Okay. Thank you so much. I'm going to move to a follow-up question. We're going to
actually start with you, Ms. Kinzer. This is also from WeCan. How do you envision
partnerships between child care programs, the Department of Public Instruction and the Department
of Children and Family Progressing? Children and Families Progressing?
Sorry. I'm turning it off. So I think this is where, again, the relationships are really
important, where the Department of Public Instruction is partnering with programs that are
and departments that are specialized in other areas, like Department of Children and Families
Progressing. So I don't have a relationship with them right now, but building those relationships
are key for all of our schools, as I've been talking with superintendents and school leaders
throughout the state. Putting all the focus on the schools to figure it all out is not working.
We have to have partnerships and relationships to support our schools and supporting our families
and our kids so that our schools can focus on the teaching and supporting in other ways.
We need to have relationships with other organizations and departments.
Thank you so much. Dr. Underly? Sure. You know, I think it really starts with
a shared vision, right, to ensure, for example, that every child in Wisconsin has access
to affordable high-quality early learning, because that's really an issue. And I think,
you know, with that vision, we can strengthen those connections between early childhood and
K-12 education. Lots of school districts are having site-based child care because there's a need.
There's a lot of child care deserts throughout Wisconsin, and that creates workforce challenges.
And so, again, I also would go back to, you know, how it would promote inclusion of children with
disabilities and multilingual learners. In the Department of Public Instruction, you know,
we could provide curriculum guidance to align early childhood programs to our Wisconsin K-12
standards. We can also support professional development by licensing early childhood
educators and expanding pathways. Again, we can also ensure that IDEA supports are available for
children with disabilities. We can also explore ways to fund 4K expansion, which we have been
putting in our budget for as long as I can recall, you know, to have full day 4K, for example.
The Department of Children and Families, I mean, they oversee child care licensing
regulations, the young star quality ratings, and they could also, and they had done this during
COVID, but they could work to expand Wisconsin shares, which is the child care subsidy. And also,
they could, you know, advocate to support more workforce development by increasing wages because
that's a big issue right now and has been for a long time with child care workers. And so, if
they were connected to the schools, they could offer, you know, better salaries, for example,
and benefits. You know, the families and caregivers, I mean, they're really connected to this because
they are in desperate need for affordable high quality child care. And they've been incredibly
engaged. But, you know, we can support them through access to resources and family engagement
programs as well as community-based support. Thank you so much. So, we're going to actually
start moving to our, I guess we can call it our lightning round, our speed round. We're nearing the
end of our conversation tonight. And so, I'm going to actually start with you, Dr. Underlee,
for this next question. And this is leading a nonpartisan office in a time of partisanship.
The politics and partisanship that allows our kids to be used as political footballs
is clearly standing in the way of doing what's right by Wisconsin students at the State House.
Given this reality, what is your plan for navigating the political landscape in our state
and moving your own priorities forward if elected or reelected, or more precisely more
reelected in your kids? You know, for me, the guiding light has always been kids. And when I
was a superintendent in a school district, and I had a nonpartisan school board, but, you know,
of course, people, you know, politics, as they say, is not our fault, but it is our problem.
Politics have been part of education forever. I mean, when you think back just to COVID,
or you think back even before that to, well, Act 10, you know, then there is a nation at risk. There
was desegregation of schools and Brown be bored. And I mean, this teaching of evolution, I mean,
politics has always been part of that. But for me, it's really about the kids and what's best for
kids. And right now, when I look at the, you know, the landscape of education or public education
in Wisconsin, we are not fulfilling our constitutional obligation to provide high quality
education to every kid. It's dependent on the zip code. And so we need to work through this
funding issue. And I think there's bipartisan support to get it fixed.
Thank you. All right, Ms. Kinzer. Thanks for this question. I have promised families, school
leaders, community leaders across the state that I will use my relationships that I already have
with the leadership and the majority, you know, the Republican majority, my relationships with
the Democrats, my relationships with governor's office and local leaders to do what's best for
kids because we have to put politics aside. And in this nonpartisan race, I'm very proud of the
support and respect I've gotten from Democrats for education reform. And then all the way to
governor, Tommy Thompson, and it just shows that you can come together, you can come together
in support of kids when you're really looking out for the best interests of the children. I have
not met anyone when I talk about how I want all kids to read. No one has disagreed with me on that.
Everyone wants all children to read. It's an American value, right? We want all of our kids to read.
And I promise to work with my people already have relationships with for our students.
Okay. Thank you so much. I will start with you, Ms. Kinzer, for the next question. Governor
Evers announced last week he is suing to protect Wisconsin students from potential federal funding
cuts and threats to constitutional rights and the freedom to learn. Do you support the lawsuit
and what would you do as superintendent to respond to federal mandates that could have a negative
impact on Wisconsin students? I have said this repeatedly. We must get the funding
from the federal government to fund our schools. We have about 14% of schools' budgets that support
our students with special needs, students for Title I, the money that we use to teach our
children how to read, write, and do math. Full stop. We have got to have that money.
And I will be an advocate for that. And I am now and going forward. We need to have someone
that can talk to our current leader, McMan, so that talking with her about what the plan is,
because we don't know what the plan is, and it's causing a lot of anxiety. But we have to be calm
and be able to come up with ideas on how the changes do happen, or if they do happen,
be able to have a plan, and be able to have conversations with those who are making those
decisions, because it will, if the money is coming straight to us, we'll be giving you the power
of this guy in control. And we have to be able to make sure our schools are getting that funding.
Okay. Thank you very much. Dr. Underly.
Yeah. Thank you for this question. I mean, I've been incredibly vocal about this, and
we've been engaging with the Wisconsin's congressional delegation. We've been leveraging
our national organizations. I know that the governor is connected to the National
Governors Association, but I'm also on the board for the Council of Chief School State Officials,
or officers, excuse me, CCSO. We've also been engaging the public, and, you know, like with
the maps that we released with the federal funding and showing what the impact it would have on every
school district, and what percentage of federal dollars are in their school district, how many
positions, and what we're learning is that these cuts, right, the funding cuts, we're going to farm
Wisconsin students, especially in rural and high poverty districts, and we need to
look at how we can strengthen our state and local funding. And I've also been very vocal
that if we're going to look at efficiencies at the federal level, first of all, we're very
efficient in government, but any savings that come from those cuts and staff need to come to the
states, we need to see that funding. Thank you. All right, so we're going to move now to our
concluding remarks before we actually get to the question and answer. I do want to leave some time
so we can address the questions from those and our audience. We'll give you one minute each to
provide concluding remarks. Before we do this, is there anything you'd like to add to one of your
previous answers, or anything we didn't ask you tonight, that you'd like Wisconsin voters to
consider or know about you before they cast their ballots on or before April 1st, and you have one
minute each, we're going to start with Dr. Underleak. And I'm sorry, is this in addition to the closing
statement? Not yet, we're going to get to the closing remarks, but we're kind of in our closing
chance. So anything that we did just by the way. And so I guess what I would say is that I have
the leadership and the vision, you know, that I have the proven leadership working by partisan
bipartisanship with Republicans and Democrats to get things done. We are seeing incredible progress
coming out of COVID. Of course, there's so much more work to get done. Of course, we want to make
sure all kids are successful with literacy and math, that they have engaging programming
throughout high school, especially with pathways for career and technical education. We want to
make sure our kids are successful when they graduate from high school, and can pursue the career or
the college of their choice. But the way through this is we cannot do this without adequate school
funding. And Wisconsin is struggling. You see it by the number of referendum, and we have a
legislature that doesn't seem to be very concerned about that. They're happy to pass that
on to the local taxpayers, and we need to end that.
Okay. Thank you. Ms. Kinzer.
Yes. Thank you for this opportunity. I want to address that I've been called a voucher lobbyist
by Ms. Dr. Underley's campaign. And I want to say that I have spent near, I spent nearly a decade
in Chicago public schools, both in the classroom as a special education teacher,
and then also at the district level when Arnie Duncan was there. I spent another 10 years working
in the public charter school space as a principal and in leadership positions. And I think sometimes
people unfortunately forget that charter schools are public schools. And finally, I want to be
really clear about this. I have never worked for or in a private or religious school.
I'm not a privatizer. And that claim is patently false. And I support school choice. I support
families having the option to send their children to any type of school that we offer.
But I just want to make sure that every country that I have been endorsed by the
education forum last week, along with, you know, Governor Tommy Thompson and Dr. Fuller.
So I just want to make sure that that is cleared up. Thank you.
Thank you. All right. Before we move on, I want to, Jill, do you want to have a chance to respond to
that? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for that opportunity. You know, I guess what I would say
in response to that is that Miss Kins are lobbied for, you know, these independent charter schools
and vouchers. You know, you know, she doesn't have a license, for example, which has raised
questions with voters. And so she advocated for, you know, policies that wouldn't require
licensing for teachers and administrators. And I think that that's important that,
you know, I think it's also too important to understand that I don't believe she fully
understands how public schools work in Wisconsin. She's made this claim routinely, for example,
that only three in 10 or 30% of kids are able to read or that they're college ready. And that
makes absolutely no sense. I mean, because we've made incredible gains in Wisconsin,
how can we be six in the nation for schools when, if that were to be true, for example,
and that's absolutely not the case. We're doing, we're six in the nation with the highest graduation
rates in state history. And I think my vision has had a lot to do with that. I have to correct
Dr. Underley on Dr. Underley, I do have my license. I paid the $185 to update my license. I had a
license when I was in Wisconsin as a principal. I had a license when I was in Illinois as a
special ed teacher. I have a degree from an Ivy League Institute. But when I got here,
it was so difficult to move my license from New York and Illinois to Wisconsin. This is,
these are the barriers that we need to take away as we're saying we need more qualified
teachers. So I would, I would hope Dr. Underley would understand this. As she has said, she
understands that the teacher shortage is real and educated and the, you know, attracting others
here. I come with licenses from other places, kind of degree at Columbia. And now I do have my,
I paid the $185 to update my license. We did this a couple weeks ago. So just to make sure
everyone understands that. And I worked at a nonprofit where I was lobbying for equal funding
for all of our children. And as I said, the governor also signed on to that. Thank you.
Hey, thank you for that. Ms. Kinza, we're going to actually start with you. And so I just want to
actually thank both of you for this conversation tonight. It's more than likely will possibly be
the last conversation before voters go out. And so I do want to thank you for this time that you've
had with us. So before we move to the audience question and answers, we'd like to give you both
time to tell supporters of surviving public schools schools why they can trust you
to close gaps and Wisconsin schools. So Ms. Kinza, we're going to start with you on this question.
Yes. So when I opened up my public charter school here 12 years ago, after two years,
the time superintendent, Evers, now governor Evers gave us a beating the odds award for closing gaps,
achievement gaps, academic gaps. And then we went on to get more of those awards later on.
I've been able to work with the legislature and the governor's office and parents and people
across our state to have a huge increase in funding for all of our children in Wisconsin.
And now I'm running an initiative where I'm trying to help more children read
proficiently. And so I promise to continue to work across the aisle, work with leaders,
work with parents, work with teachers to ensure all of our children in Wisconsin have an excellent
education, and that we can get to that.
That's a quick minute. Minutes go quickly. That last bit, I do want to give you an opportunity to
see those last moments that you were. I think I said, so that 95% of all children can read well
enough to go to college or have a career. Thank you very much. And to hurry. Yes, Dr. Unduly.
All right. Thank you so much. And again, thanks to the organizer. Thank you, Ms. Kinser,
for being part of this important conversation and to everyone who took time to listen and engage.
Look, I'm running for reelection in the state superintendent because I believe in the power
of public education to transform lives. My vision has always been every child every day,
and it's more than just words. It's a commitment to ensuring that every Wisconsin student,
regardless of their background or zip code has access to opportunities and the support that
they need to thrive. But I know that belief isn't enough. Trust is earned through actions,
and that's why under my leadership, Wisconsin has made real progress. As I mentioned before,
we've moved from 14th to 6th in the nation for education. We have the highest graduation rates
in state history. We're making critical investments in mental health, literacy, early childhood,
teacher recruitment and retention, and strong academic standards. We're closing gaps in
achievement and opportunity. I mean, that's the heart of this work, but it takes a lot of time
and energy and effort, and we know that gaps don't just happen in the classroom. They stem from
disparities in funding, resources, access to quality educators, and student support services.
And so I'm going to continue to push for increased funding so that we can invest in our kids.
All right. Thank you very much. So I want to try my best to move to the questions and answers.
You've had a chance. I don't know if you all have had a chance. The chat is very lively.
So I'm going to try to cover as many questions in the remaining 15 minutes that we have.
So I'll start with this is for both candidates. In recent years, there have been increasing
political attacks on diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives in Wisconsin's education system,
including efforts to restrict curriculum that addresses systemic inequities,
culturally responsive teaching, and support for historically marginalized students.
As state superintendent, how would you advocate for diversity, equity, and inclusion in our schools,
ensure that all students feel valued and represented in our schools, and in their learning environments,
and protect educators who are committed to equity-focused teaching.
And we'll start with Dr. Underleast since you, the last person to respond.
No, thank you very much for this question. Diversity, equity, and inclusion, they're not
just buzzwords. I mean, that's the thing. They are essential to creating an environment where
every student can succeed. For students with disabilities, students of color, English language
learners, rural students, veterans, women, we employ in our schools. DEI is not optional.
It's a strike, and we have to look at it as such. Diversity enriches our classrooms by
bringing in diverse perspectives, experiences, and ways of thinking. Equity ensures that every
student, regardless of their background, has access to the resources and support that they
need to be successful. And inclusion is a fundamental human right, and it's about making sure that
every student feels that they belong, that they can contribute, and has an opportunity to reach
their full potential. And in Wisconsin public schools, DEI efforts should be woven,
it should be woven into the fabric of our educational experience. They don't distract
from core academic subjects, they enhance them. In a state superintendent, I will continue to
champion these initiatives because they're critical to providing the kind of inclusive,
equitable education that our students deserve. Okay, thank you very much. It's Kinza.
Yeah, so we want to make all of our children feel welcomed and safe in our schools,
and ensuring that they have a teacher that motivates them, and inspires them, and a school where
you come in, and it's joyful, and everyone is learning. And ensuring, and this is the
biggest thing, we look at in Milwaukee, we only have 5% of Black children reading well enough
to go to go on to college and have a career. And this isn't just something made up, I know you're
saying something about six in the country, but this is real life, like our children need to learn
how to read. If they can't read, they can't go on, they can't join the military, they can't get it
going to the trades if you can't read well enough. And the military has just come out saying that,
that we, they can't take 70% of applicants. This was just in a new, a new report. And NPR just did
a whole, whole, a whole report on our nation having a reading problem. So the best part,
I think that we can do it makes your program complete, the future, and making sure that they
do feel welcomed. And I do want to say with GI, that is a local control issue. We need to make
sure that the local, the local school boards and school districts are implementing their,
their programs for their, for their schools. Thank you. Thank you very much. Just to follow up,
you're saying that diversity, equity, and inclusion is something that should be under local control.
It is under local, it is under local control. Like, so if DEI, the program in Milwaukee,
may look different than it does in, in Ryan Lander or Green Bay or different areas like that. So,
I've done a lot of work in DEI and the schools where I worked. We had lots of programs and,
and goals around that, making sure that our schools were diverse and equitable programs and
inclusion. So, that was based off of what our, our, our school, our school plan.
Okay. All right. So we're going to start this next question with you, Ms. Kenza.
If elected, will you work with, with legislators to ensure that all schools
that receive taxpayer funding must submit data for schoolwide report cards?
They, they already are supposed to. That is the law. So yes, I would want to make sure that they
all are, and we want to hold everyone accountable to meeting, to meeting deadlines, making sure that
the data is actually something we can find and it's easy to read. There are, there are report cards
and dashboards that like Indiana does a great job. Louisiana, Mississippi, and I want to make
sure that Wisconsin also has a way to, when we do collect that information, we also have a way
that's really clear that's on a dashboard so that everyone can see that data.
So yes, we need to do that and we must hold everyone accountable to it.
Dr. Underly. Okay. Thank you. Um, no, I, I, of course, think that that they should be,
you know, all schools that are participating in the voucher program should submit data for
school report cards in the same way that public schools do, but they don't. So private schools
that participate in the Milwaukee parental choice program and the Racine choice program and then the,
and there's the third one, I can't recall the name of it, they submit their data to DPI, but only
private schools with only at least 20 choice students in the tested grades receive a choice
pupil report card from DPI. So, I mean, there's ways that they get around this,
and they're separate from the public school report cards and they only reflect the voucher
students and not the full student population of that school. So, I mean, there's differences
in accountability and I would want them to be the same. I'd also want our public schools to have
the same flexibilities that we allow independent charters and choice schools if the, if the school
district wanted those, but it does lead to equity and transparency concerns. We need to put this
information also on our state tax bills as well, property tax bills. Can I add to that? Just, I
agree that we need to make sure that there is less complexity for all of our schools and so
making sure that it is easier for schools. Like you said, there are something that independent
charter schools that don't have to do for the traditional public schools. So, of course,
that we'd want to make sure that all the schools, you know, are able to be held accountable in the
same ways. All right. Thank you. We'll start this next question with Dr. Underly.
Viewer says over 50 percent of school districts in Wisconsin are considered rural school districts.
Many of these districts have significant gaps, especially with our students who come from poverty.
Many of these districts have significant budget issues, decaying infrastructure
and significant shortages in staffing. Often legislation such as Act 20 puts requirements
on these districts that simply cannot be met in our current system as is. How would the DPI,
DPI under your leadership support districts who cannot raise the funds or find the staff to meet
these sorts of legislative mandates? Sorry, I keep on messing up with that mute button. No,
this is really important. It's very timely. Wisconsin rural school districts, they have a
lot of similarities, honestly, to urban school districts, but they face significant challenges,
like declining enrollment, staff shortages. I mean, as the viewer said, you know, there's
around 60 percent of them are rural aging infrastructure. But the thing that really seems
to be hurting them recently is the unfunded mandates. And while DPI can't independently
allocate funding, we can support rural schools through advocacy, strategic partnership, resource
sharing grants, for example, and those kinds of initiatives. And so we will continue to advocate
for increased and equitable funding as I've been sharing throughout this evening. I know that
the legislature has explored expanding virtual and shared services for school districts,
and for a variety of reasons, that's really difficult to do. But we need to look at recruiting and
retaining rural educators. I think that's the way we can do through loan forgiveness,
grow your own programs, and working with the UW System and Technical College for more pipeline
programs. Thank you. Ms. Kinza. Yeah, so I have talked to superintendents in the rural areas,
and I've promised to work with them and use again my relationships that I have in the legislature
and the governor's office and the ways that I have worked to inform families and school leaders
and teachers and how to mobilize around an issue when they're new funding is needed. And like I've
said, I will be a leader in helping with modernizing the funding formula, with getting an increase in
special education. And you know, we use an outdated special, you know, reimbursement is an
outdated way of paying for special ed. There's 30 states across the country that use a different
way to fund special education. It's not by reimbursement. It's it's it's they get paid for it in the
moment, right? Like they get it not in the moment, but they get the payment that year. And so I would
want to look to best practices to ensure that our schools get the funding that they need to be able
to have. All right, thank you for that. This question is somewhat similar to the question around DEI,
but it's actually more specific to LGBTQ students. So I'll start with you, Ms. Kinzer. Do the candidates
believe schools have an obligation to support LGBTQ students? So essentially your perspective
on this, particularly as we consider some of the calls around trans rights and students who are
gender nonconforming. So if you could talk a little bit more about that. Yeah, I mean, of course,
all children should be welcomed in school and feel safe and get a great education.
And so 100% that students should be supported so that they can come to school and learn. That's
very important. Dr. Underley. Thank you. You know, I've I've made prioritizing all students feeling
welcome and safe in their schools. Not just LGBTQ, you know, students with disabilities,
black students and other students of color. And I've been very vocal about not just achievement
gaps, but opportunity gaps. And you know, I've prioritized also mental health support,
anti bullying initiatives and promoting inclusive environments for all students,
including LGBTQ students. And I fought for policies that ensure basic needs are met, you know,
so that all students feel that they belong in their school. They need to have
adults in their school who see them and, you know, that they know that they can
talk to and who care for them. And that's why in my budget, I've also proposed investing in
anti bullying and peer to peer mentoring programs and including more social workers
and school psychologists, because public schools are for everyone and every child should see
themselves as belonging in their public school. Thank you, Dr. Underley. This may very well be
our last question. I'm looking at the time that we have here. Viewer asks, how do we tie funding
to successful outcomes? So I'll start with Dr. Underley and then we'll move to Ms. Kinzer.
Yeah, I mean, of course there should be accountability. I mean, these are these are public tax dollars.
It's one of the largest expenditures that we have in the state of Wisconsin. And that's the role
of our local school boards. That's why we elect them. And that's what their job is to oversee
student achievement and to work with the school administration, who then works with the teachers,
and parents to make sure that our kids are successful. And that's where a lot of the accountability is.
Report cards are great, but there are other measures of student success in our school district. For
example, the number of kids who are participating in activities like banned, for example, or forensics,
or athletics, the number of bullying incidents that we have at our school to measure, you know,
the safety in the school, the types of academic programs that we have in our school, like AP,
and transcribed credit, or transcripted credit, or dual enrollment programs. But then also looking
at, you know, the quality of instruction and making sure we're investing in our teachers.
So there's a lot of different ways we could be accountable, but the funding,
the funding is really important so that we can make sure that our schools are successful.
Thank you. Ms. Kinzer.
Can you repeat the question again?
Yeah, I've got so many on here, but essentially...
It's not on the slide.
Yeah, it's not on the slide. How do we hold our schools accountable,
particularly as we're considering the relationship between the achievement and accountability?
Yeah, so we need to make sure that we update the report card. I think everyone has been asking
for that as I have traveled across the state that they want the report card updated. It's hard
to understand that the standards have changed, the cut scores have changed, and so they want
updated report card that's easy to access, easy to understand, able to see progress over
the years with growth and proficiency. And so that's the way that school boards can use
the report card and families and school districts hold themselves accountable to great results for
kids is to make sure that we have data that is consistent and is aligned. Like I said, I would
restore high standards back to what we used to use, but making sure that the report card is
something that we can use and easy.
Well, this is the closing of our time together as much as I'd like us to have more time together.
Unfortunately, we are out of time. I would like to thank our candidates,
Ms. Brittany Kinzer and Dr. Jill Underley for spending this evening with us.
I'd also like to thank the participants who were able to spend some time and ask the
important questions to these two. I also want to thank the you. I want to thank the Wisconsin
Eye for live streaming this event. Many thanks to the League of Women Voters of Wisconsin,
Wisconsin Early Childhood Action Needed, the NAACP of Wisconsin and the Wisconsin Public
Education Network for this opportunity to get to know Wisconsin's next superintendent of education.
Wisconsin Public Education Network's election headquarters page will archive this forum
as well as responses that the candidates have provided to the survey and others and much,
much more. So please share these resources widely and encourage everyone you know to vote on April
1st. Thank you again for your time and I wish you all the very best. Have a great night.
And thank you to to our moderator Dr. Kevin Lawrence Henry Jr. for leading this conversation
tonight. We are all so grateful to all of you and we invite you to join us in our upcoming
budget advocacy. This race matters much to the upcoming budget passage. So we hope you'll join
us in that conversation too and that you will be part wherever you can tag in and making sure
that Wisconsin kids have what they need both at the ballot box and beyond. Thank you so
much to everyone who took part in this day and we hope we'll see you at our upcoming events.
Thank you Ms. Kinzer and Dr. Underley and Dr. Henry for your participation in tonight's
event and to all of our co-sponsors. Have a great night everyone.
Recording stopped. Thank you. Thank you so so much. I don't know if is everyone is still on is
there just us. Yeah I think so we didn't we didn't end it yet. There's the people are
people are leaving and people are leaving but they're still like the attendees and they're in here.
Yeah. We may still be live. I will warn you I think some people were streaming so
are recording us up. Just thank you and I really appreciate this opportunity. I really enjoyed
the opportunity and Dr. Henry I have never I have not met you but I've heard really positive
things about you from from a we have a mutual friend and so just thank you and thank you Heather
for working with my team. I really appreciate it. This is my first time ever running for office
and I'm really excited but just thank you so much. Thank you. Well thank you and I hope you'll all
have a great night and we will see you all soon. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to see you all
and all right. I think we're done. All right Heather I'm going to go ahead and take care. Thanks
Kevin. No problem. All right you can go ahead and turn it and shut it down. Thank you. We'll do.