WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:03.600 And so do you prefer Charles or Charlie 00:03.600 --> 00:07.200 for how we refer to you in the program? 00:07.200 --> 00:11.480 So public presentation, I usually refer to myself as Charles. 00:11.480 --> 00:14.120 It's confusing because I always introduce myself as Charlie. 00:14.120 --> 00:15.840 But Charles is consistent. 00:15.840 --> 00:18.560 That's what people will find in other news sources 00:18.560 --> 00:21.240 and on our websites and stuff. 00:21.240 --> 00:22.400 Yeah, we get that all the time. 00:22.400 --> 00:25.720 It's why I pay close attention. 00:25.720 --> 00:35.280 So and then pronunciation, how do you pronounce your last name? 00:35.280 --> 00:38.760 So it's Charles Carlin, just like the comedian. 00:38.760 --> 00:40.160 OK, perfect. 00:40.160 --> 00:41.840 All right, are you ready to go? 00:41.840 --> 00:43.040 Yeah, go ahead. 00:43.040 --> 00:44.640 OK. 00:44.640 --> 00:47.400 So just to start, what was your reaction 00:47.400 --> 00:52.880 when lawmakers failed to reauthorize this program? 00:52.880 --> 00:56.120 I think the failure to reauthorize Nils Nelson 00:56.120 --> 01:00.400 was just such an unforced error on the part of lawmakers. 01:00.400 --> 01:05.320 There was plenty of political will on both sides of the aisle. 01:05.320 --> 01:10.280 The support from voters is just absolute. 01:10.280 --> 01:14.400 I mean, you can't have an issue that gets broader public support. 01:14.400 --> 01:18.480 And so it was an unnecessary victim of partisanship 01:18.480 --> 01:19.200 in the Capitol. 01:20.200 --> 01:24.200 So how expansive was the program and how important was it 01:24.200 --> 01:28.200 to Wisconsin conservation efforts? 01:29.200 --> 01:31.200 So I think the Wisconsin landscape 01:31.200 --> 01:33.200 and the outdoor recreation infrastructure 01:33.200 --> 01:37.200 that we have in Wisconsin simply wouldn't be here today 01:37.200 --> 01:41.200 without the successes of the Nils Nelson stewardship program. 01:41.200 --> 01:45.200 The program has been operating for over 35 years, 01:45.200 --> 01:49.200 has helped us permanently protect more than 650,000 acres 01:49.200 --> 01:53.200 of land, most of which is open for public recreation, 01:53.200 --> 01:56.200 getting out there bird watching, going hunting, 01:56.200 --> 01:58.200 going for a hike with your family. 01:58.200 --> 02:01.200 And every single neighborhood in the state 02:01.200 --> 02:03.200 has been touched by Nils Nelson. 02:03.200 --> 02:04.200 It's not an exaggeration. 02:04.200 --> 02:06.200 You know, more than 90% of households 02:06.200 --> 02:09.200 are within a mile of a Nils Nelson investment. 02:09.200 --> 02:13.200 So these are the trails that we walk and bike on, 02:13.200 --> 02:16.200 the beach runs where we go swimming, the weed harvesters 02:16.200 --> 02:19.200 that help keep our lakes clean, the playground equipment 02:19.200 --> 02:21.200 that our kids play on at local parks, 02:21.200 --> 02:26.200 all of this is made possible by the Nils Nelson stewardship program. 02:26.200 --> 02:29.200 That being said, the program has really been whittled away 02:29.200 --> 02:32.200 over the last 15 years or so. 02:32.200 --> 02:35.200 That's why we see this incredible maintenance backlog 02:35.200 --> 02:37.200 on state properties. 02:37.200 --> 02:41.200 And so it's a, it's a crisis and it's sort of an unnecessary 02:41.200 --> 02:43.200 catastrophe for funding to run out. 02:43.200 --> 02:47.200 And at the same time, the problems have been mounting for a while. 02:47.200 --> 02:53.200 And so is the backlog of maintenance and those other items 02:53.200 --> 02:58.200 you referenced, part of why it failed to be reauthorized? 02:58.200 --> 03:04.200 No, the failure to reauthorize the program is petty partisan politics. 03:04.200 --> 03:08.200 So not to drag you and your viewers through the weeds too much, 03:08.200 --> 03:12.200 but there used to be a law on the books that would allow a single 03:12.200 --> 03:16.200 anonymous member of a legislative committee to block almost 03:16.200 --> 03:19.200 any Nils Nelson project from moving forward. 03:19.200 --> 03:23.200 This is after the legislature had appropriated money for the program. 03:23.200 --> 03:27.200 After the DNR had carefully evaluated all the grants that came in 03:27.200 --> 03:29.200 and chose to award funds. 03:29.200 --> 03:32.200 Then you could have this single anonymous legislator step in at 03:32.200 --> 03:36.200 the last moment and say, nope, we're not moving forward. 03:36.200 --> 03:40.200 There was no way for the public to know who it was, why it happened. 03:40.200 --> 03:44.200 And there was no mechanism to get a project unstuck. 03:44.200 --> 03:47.200 So if that sounds crazy, it's because it was. 03:47.200 --> 03:51.200 And the Wisconsin Supreme Court agreed and ruled six to one. 03:51.200 --> 03:55.200 Hey, this is unconstitutional and can't happen. 03:55.200 --> 03:58.200 So that legislative veto went away. 03:58.200 --> 04:02.200 And then what we saw was a very small number of lawmakers, 04:02.200 --> 04:06.200 mostly senators on the Republican side say. 04:06.200 --> 04:10.200 We're upset because we lost this power to anonymously block projects. 04:10.200 --> 04:14.200 And therefore, instead of finding a new path forward through policy, 04:14.200 --> 04:17.200 we'll simply zero out funding for the program. 04:17.200 --> 04:19.200 Wow. So. 04:19.200 --> 04:22.200 What happens to existing. 04:22.200 --> 04:25.200 Nils Nelson investments land. 04:25.200 --> 04:27.200 And future projects. 04:27.200 --> 04:32.200 So land that has been protected with Nils Nelson is permanently protected. 04:32.200 --> 04:34.200 Nothing is going to undo that. 04:34.200 --> 04:40.200 What it means, however, moving forward is if we need a new segment of the ice age 04:40.200 --> 04:45.200 trail or the North Country trail, there's no state money to make that happen. 04:45.200 --> 04:49.200 If a community is growing and needs a new neighborhood park, 04:49.200 --> 04:53.200 the Nils Nelson stewardship program is what used to provide the funds. 04:54.200 --> 04:57.200 Funding for that. And so that works stops. 04:57.200 --> 05:01.200 We have no other significant source of funding for acquiring. 05:01.200 --> 05:04.200 Parkland conservation areas, recreation areas in the state. 05:04.200 --> 05:10.200 And then all of that stuff that we need to get out and enjoy the places that make Wisconsin special. 05:10.200 --> 05:16.200 So a trailhead to park your car at a kiosk that shows you the map of where you're going to go walk. 05:17.200 --> 05:20.200 The boat launch to put your kayak or your fishing boat in the water. 05:20.200 --> 05:23.200 As that stuff ages and needs to be repaired. 05:23.200 --> 05:26.200 We have now shot ourselves in the foot and taken away. 05:26.200 --> 05:33.200 Really our only significant source of funding to do that to take care of that infrastructure. 05:33.200 --> 05:36.200 And so how does Wisconsin's. 05:37.200 --> 05:39.200 Investment at least with this project and overall. 05:39.200 --> 05:44.200 In conservation, compare to other states, both with Nils Nelson and now without it. 05:44.200 --> 05:45.200 Yeah. 05:45.200 --> 06:02.200 So for a long time, Wisconsin was really the envy of the nation because when Nils Nelson was founded in 1989. 06:03.200 --> 06:06.200 And remember, this was a real bipartisan success. 06:06.200 --> 06:13.200 It was an effort led by legislative Democrats signed into law by Governor Tommy Thompson, a prominent Republican. 06:13.200 --> 06:23.200 Governor Thompson then went on to brag over and over again about how his administration protected more land than any other governor's administration in Wisconsin history. 06:24.200 --> 06:33.200 And we had more financial resources to protect our land and water and to help people get outside than most other states. 06:33.200 --> 06:42.200 Starting in 2011 or so, that story really changed and we saw the state start to significantly pair back. 06:43.200 --> 06:52.200 Nils Nelson funding so that really the program became kind of a shadow of itself, while our neighbors really supercharged their efforts. 06:52.200 --> 07:03.200 So in Minnesota, they have what they call their legacy amendment that is putting hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars into natural resources and outdoor recreation. 07:03.200 --> 07:19.200 And there are very red states like Georgia, Florida, Missouri, Texas are all investing hundreds of millions of dollars in conservation and outdoor recreation, because this is a growing economy. 07:19.200 --> 07:22.200 It's an important part of our economic foundation. 07:22.200 --> 07:32.200 Because as the climate changes, it becomes more and more important to make those investments in natural spaces like wetlands that can protect our communities. 07:32.200 --> 07:36.200 So our neighbors, they've got their foot on the gas and Wisconsin. 07:36.200 --> 07:44.200 We just turned the engine off. 07:44.200 --> 07:55.200 I think you're muted there. Sorry. I read that somewhere that today, even with Nils Nelson, as it was. 07:55.200 --> 08:07.200 Wisconsin is last in conservation and investment. And so without it, we're even worse off than last. Is that true. 08:07.200 --> 08:22.200 The metric that you're referring to is Wisconsin ranks dead last in the nation in our investment in our state parks and state parks is one important area where Nils Nelson provides funds. 08:22.200 --> 08:39.200 And so what we've got us there is that the legislature a number of years ago took away all tax funding support for the state parks and tried to make them funded exclusively by user fees those stickers we all put on our windshields to get into the state 08:40.200 --> 08:50.200 It just doesn't work. That's not actually enough money to take care of both the built infrastructure and all of the natural places that are that are out there. 08:50.200 --> 09:06.200 So I think that's one really striking example of how as a state, we've really walked away from our commitment to caring for, you know, what really makes Wisconsin special, which is all of these remarkable outdoor places. 09:07.200 --> 09:08.200 So, 09:10.200 --> 09:27.200 Was this a lot of money? Was it the financial aspect that kind of killed it and the ability to veto a project, or was it just the ability to veto a specific project in what it was trying to achieve. 09:28.200 --> 09:41.200 It's really not for a lack of funds. So, you know, as we all know, Wisconsin is sitting on a very healthy surplus right now. We've got about two and a half billion extra dollars sitting in the bank. 09:42.200 --> 09:52.200 Knowles Nelson was only had about $33 million a year appropriated to it. And when I said earlier that it's really become a shadow of itself. 09:52.200 --> 10:09.200 Go back to 2007 2008. We had three times as much money allocated to the program in nominal dollars. And then if you account for inflation to actually have that kind of purchasing power today, we would be having to put something like $200 million a year towards 10:09.200 --> 10:12.200 that. 10:12.200 --> 10:14.200 So, you know, we have a lot of money. 10:14.200 --> 10:19.200 We have that money. It's a matter of priorities. What we choose to say is is important. 10:19.200 --> 10:30.200 You'll occasionally hear a legislator who's critical of the program say, we're just running up the state's credit card by making these Knowles Nelson investments and that's fiscally irresponsible. 10:31.200 --> 10:33.200 So, you know, we have a lot of money. 10:33.200 --> 10:34.200 We have a lot of money. 10:34.200 --> 10:42.200 We have a lot of money right now with the money that we dedicate each year as well as debt service payments. 10:42.200 --> 10:45.200 Knowles Nelson costs each Wisconsin resident about $11. 10:45.200 --> 10:51.200 So I took my kid to fish fry at Culver's the other week. And I think it was about $15 each. 10:51.200 --> 10:53.200 This is the value we can afford. 10:53.200 --> 10:58.200 Is there still a chance that lawmakers will reauthorize. 10:58.200 --> 11:09.200 So, you know, it doesn't have to be Knowles Nelson is done forever. So what's happened is the money has run out, but the program stays on the books. So all of the laws that guided are there. 11:09.200 --> 11:12.200 The DNR staff who administer the program are still there. 11:12.200 --> 11:20.200 What we need is for the legislature to come back and invest money in the program so that it can get moving again. 11:20.200 --> 11:39.200 And, you know, what we've seen is as the program officially lapsed on June 30th and candidates and legislators, mostly on the Democratic side, have been saying, this is a top priority for us to come back and get the program funded that we're 11:39.200 --> 11:44.200 going to fix this come January, come the 2027 state budget. 11:44.200 --> 11:57.200 And I certainly believe that that intention is there. I think the responsibility for all of us as Wisconsin residents and voters is to be asking those very direct questions of our candidates and legislators. 11:57.200 --> 12:03.200 Are you going to fix Knowles Nelson, you're going to make sure that we can acquire more conservation land in the future. 12:03.200 --> 12:18.200 Because I do think that our November elections are going to have really real consequences for what kind of latitude the legislature has to fund Knowles Nelson again and what priorities they'll choose. 12:18.200 --> 12:25.200 There anything else you want to add, something that's important for people to know. 12:25.200 --> 12:39.200 And then the last thing that I would say is that, you know, knows Nelson really does touch us all. So, knows Nelson funds our forest products industry that holds the working forest so the north woods together. 12:39.200 --> 12:43.200 It supports our state parks. If you go visit Devil's Lake. 12:43.200 --> 12:48.200 You just added 200 acres to Devil's Lake this year through a Knowles Nelson investment. 12:48.200 --> 12:54.200 Or if you live in an urban area, and you're a bike commuter so you ride the cap city trail to work in Madison. 12:54.200 --> 13:00.200 That's there because of the stewardship program. So it has done so much good for us. 13:01.200 --> 13:14.200 It is probably the least controversial investment that the state makes according to the public. So, you know, let's just help our legislators like get it together, get back on their feet and get this thing funded again. 13:14.200 --> 13:17.200 All right, that's all I have for you. 13:17.200 --> 13:22.200 So, just to make sure we have it all correct. 13:22.200 --> 13:26.200 Yeah, your title with gathering waters. 13:26.200 --> 13:28.200 That's a strategy officer. 13:28.200 --> 13:33.200 Okay. And, um, you are. 13:33.200 --> 13:38.200 So we have a graphic that goes up with your name and we put a locator on it. 13:38.200 --> 13:42.200 So where will should we say you're joining us from? 13:42.200 --> 13:48.200 Oh, I am in northern Langley County right now. 13:49.200 --> 13:54.200 I'm on a tiny little lake called Duck Lake, sort of on the Langley County Langley to know. 13:54.200 --> 13:56.200 Oh, night at county line. 13:56.200 --> 13:57.200 Okay. 13:57.200 --> 14:02.200 Is there like a sit town that we can reference. 14:02.200 --> 14:05.200 Yeah, the closest town is Summit Lake Wisconsin. 14:05.200 --> 14:06.200 Okay. 14:06.200 --> 14:10.200 And then any questions that you have for me. 14:10.200 --> 14:14.200 I think you said this was going to air tomorrow. Is that right? 14:15.200 --> 14:23.200 That's correct. So our program air statewide at 730 on Fridays. 14:23.200 --> 14:27.200 So this will be the whole interview won't be used. 14:27.200 --> 14:33.200 We'll use some excerpts and then we'll probably use additional pieces on our website. 14:33.200 --> 14:38.200 And so I can send you the links once they're up on our website, 14:38.200 --> 14:42.200 but you can also catch it live tomorrow night. 14:43.200 --> 14:44.200 Okay. 14:44.200 --> 14:45.200 Great. 14:45.200 --> 14:48.200 And I guess last question. Are. 14:48.200 --> 14:53.200 Are you interviewing any policymakers, you know, about this story as well? 14:53.200 --> 14:57.200 Or will it be just kind of me speaking about knows Nelson or. 14:57.200 --> 14:59.200 It'll, it'll just be this. 14:59.200 --> 15:03.200 I might do something more on it in the future, especially. 15:03.200 --> 15:07.200 We're doing a lot of election coverage. That's kind of issue based. 15:07.200 --> 15:11.200 So it's possible we'll touch on this, but this is just to kind of. 15:11.200 --> 15:16.200 We haven't covered knows Nelson as this has been progressing. 15:16.200 --> 15:21.200 And so this is just to give viewers an opportunity to understand what it is. 15:21.200 --> 15:28.200 What's happening and what is going to be possible in the future. 15:28.200 --> 15:32.200 Well, sounds good. Well, thank you very much for reaching out. 15:32.200 --> 15:36.200 And I really appreciate you all covering this story. I think it's an important one. 15:36.200 --> 15:39.200 Yeah. Thanks for making time. I think we interrupted a holiday. 15:40.200 --> 15:41.200 No problem. 15:41.200 --> 15:44.200 All right. Take care. All right. Yeah. Have a great week. 15:44.200 --> 15:45.200 You too. Bye.