WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:19.540 A recent state projection shows Wisconsin will lose more than $2 billion in sales tax 00:19.540 --> 00:25.760 revenue because of an exemption written into the 2325 state budget for data centers, a 00:25.760 --> 00:31.760 break design to promote economic development. Three years later, the state is swimming in new 00:31.760 --> 00:38.080 data centers with consumer concerns about water and energy usage, but in a win for consumers, 00:38.080 --> 00:44.000 the Wisconsin Public Service Commission just ruled that existing electricity customers should not 00:44.000 --> 00:51.040 pay a single cent to subsidize the service of data centers. The ruling is also a major win for 00:51.040 --> 00:57.600 the Citizen's Utility Board, which fought on behalf of customers. Executive Director of CUB, 00:57.600 --> 01:01.680 Tom Content, joins us now with more. And thanks very much for being here. 01:02.720 --> 01:08.400 Oh, great to be with you. So you've said that this case was the most significant one that CUB 01:08.400 --> 01:13.040 has ever been involved in. So when the PSC ruled, what was your reaction? 01:14.240 --> 01:20.000 I was frankly surprised. I've had a good feeling that we were going to get some of what we asked 01:20.080 --> 01:25.840 for in terms of significant changes to what the proposal was, but we got the vast majority of our 01:26.400 --> 01:31.760 changes or changes that addressed our concerns. The commissioner has really sent a message. 01:32.480 --> 01:38.000 Even though they can't control every cent, they sent a message that every dollar needs to be 01:38.000 --> 01:43.600 accounted for. And as one of the commissioners put it, every cent should be paid for by the tech 01:43.600 --> 01:49.280 companies. So how does the proliferation of data centers in Wisconsin engage consumers 01:49.840 --> 01:52.240 in a way that other rate cases may not have? 01:55.600 --> 02:02.000 I think it's a combination of concerns about rising energy costs because we've already come 02:02.000 --> 02:07.520 into this period with rising energy costs that have risen at rates higher than inflation, 02:07.520 --> 02:15.680 paired with the local community reaction and basically the Wisconsin reaction as noted in 02:15.680 --> 02:22.640 the Marquette polls to data centers. And the Marquette poll that just came out 02:22.640 --> 02:26.960 showed a lot more clarity about where Wisconsinites stand about data centers 02:26.960 --> 02:33.680 than it showed about who's running for governor. And by a two-to-one margin, people said that 02:33.680 --> 02:40.240 costs of data centers outweigh the benefits. And I think layered into that is fear of AI 02:40.720 --> 02:46.880 and what the impacts of AI are on the economy and society down the road. 02:46.880 --> 02:52.720 I think that played into it too. Because I understand that thousands of people kind of came to 02:52.720 --> 03:00.320 cub and said, yes, we want the PSC to rule in this way. Thousands of people went to the PSC 03:00.320 --> 03:06.400 hearings or PSC hearings, or submitted comments online. And so those could have been people in 03:06.400 --> 03:12.560 Milwaukee, people around the state, we energies customers and others. Frankly, the tech companies 03:12.560 --> 03:19.040 and the utility were saying the right things all along that they were going to meet their demand 03:19.040 --> 03:25.200 or that they were going to play their own way. But for us, the devil was always in the details 03:25.200 --> 03:30.640 and we found some loopholes and just areas of concern where we thought the risks that customers 03:30.640 --> 03:35.920 were still going to be on the hook were too high with what the proposal was. 03:36.240 --> 03:41.840 So does the ruling mean that power company customers will not be on the hook at all 03:42.640 --> 03:45.280 for the giant energy needs of these data centers? 03:46.320 --> 03:52.080 They went as far as they could. They ran into a couple areas where they couldn't go as far as 03:52.080 --> 03:57.200 they wanted because certain things were out of the state's control. And what I mean by that is if 03:58.080 --> 04:03.760 people may have seen that at the White House, the tech companies were at the White House 04:03.840 --> 04:07.600 pledging to pay their own way and signed a rate payer protection pledge. 04:07.600 --> 04:14.080 Now that was more of an optics document, a rhetoric document, and then it was non-binding, 04:14.080 --> 04:18.160 but it actually committed the tech companies to pay their way for all the network upgrades, 04:18.720 --> 04:23.920 which to us sounds like the power lines, right? The big power lines and the fact is 04:24.880 --> 04:30.080 our power line company, American Transmission Company, that is building $2 billion of infrastructure 04:30.080 --> 04:34.880 to feed these data centers, is actually regulated out in Washington, D.C. So the 04:34.880 --> 04:42.560 State Public Service Commission couldn't change that. And so as a result, the commissioner sent 04:42.560 --> 04:48.480 a message that they could only go so far, but they called on ATC and the We Energy's parent 04:48.480 --> 04:54.640 company to make changes that would protect customers from frankly billions of extra costs 04:54.640 --> 04:59.520 tied to these projects. What else stood out for you from the PSC on this case? 05:00.880 --> 05:09.680 I think what stood out is that the fact that the data centers will be on the hook for 100% 05:09.680 --> 05:16.560 of the new power plants. There was one scenario where other customers, small businesses, homeowners, 05:16.560 --> 05:22.880 renters, and other businesses would be on the hook for up to 25% of the cost of new power plants. 05:22.880 --> 05:28.080 And that's not a small number. We Energy's has already gotten approval for almost $2 billion in 05:28.160 --> 05:34.080 projects and has another $6 billion in the queue. So a quarter of that would have been a couple 05:34.080 --> 05:40.560 billion dollars on the hook that customers would have been responsible for. So that was the biggest 05:40.560 --> 05:47.440 change and one that we really appreciated. All right. Well, we appreciate you joining us today 05:47.440 --> 05:51.120 on this Tom content. Thanks so much. Thank you. 05:56.960 --> 06:01.520 Yeah, it almost feels like when was the last time the little guy won? 06:03.280 --> 06:10.480 Exactly. I know it feels like I can't speak for all my past executive directors, 06:10.480 --> 06:16.000 but in terms of the billions of dollars that are involved in this one versus a typical rate case, 06:16.000 --> 06:20.640 which is there'd be hundreds of millions, but this is multiple billions. So that's how 06:21.440 --> 06:26.960 it felt good. When time goes fast on these interviews, right? Yes. Yes. And thank you for 06:26.960 --> 06:31.920 your patience at the head of it. Oh, no, no problem. And we have if you want to point people 06:31.920 --> 06:36.720 to more resources, we have some on our website on our data centers page. Okay. 06:36.720 --> 06:43.040 Thank you so much. Safe travels back. All right. All right. Take care. All right. Bye. Bye.