WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:02.000 You 00:30.000 --> 00:32.000 You 01:00.000 --> 01:02.000 You 01:25.000 --> 01:29.000 Here to discuss the case is a member of Sarsour's legal team. 01:29.000 --> 01:34.000 Sam Cole, an attorney with the ACLU of Illinois, who is also a former immigration judge. 01:34.000 --> 01:36.000 Sam, thanks for joining us. 01:36.000 --> 01:37.000 Thanks for having me. 01:37.000 --> 01:42.000 You're familiar with the arguments raised by the Trump administration against Sarsour. 01:42.000 --> 01:49.000 The Secretary of State himself said that he posed an adverse consequence to foreign policy considerations. 01:49.000 --> 01:53.000 Were there grounds to arrest and detain him? 01:53.000 --> 01:56.000 No, absolutely not. 01:56.000 --> 02:04.000 Mr. Sarsour has been an upstanding person in the United States since he came here over 30 years ago. 02:04.000 --> 02:11.000 He is a grandfather of nine U.S. citizen kids and has had absolutely no trouble in the United States. 02:11.000 --> 02:19.000 The only reason he was arrested was because he's an outspoken advocate for Palestinian human rights. 02:19.000 --> 02:22.000 And that's why he's been targeted by this administration. 02:22.000 --> 02:28.000 And that is absolutely not an appropriate and lawful reason to arrest someone. 02:28.000 --> 02:32.000 So what were conditions like for Mr. Sarsour in jail? 02:32.000 --> 02:34.000 They were pretty bad. 02:34.000 --> 02:38.000 He lost 30 pounds during the time that he was there. 02:38.000 --> 02:40.000 He also has a medical problem. 02:40.000 --> 02:48.000 He's a type 2 diabetic and his doctor required that he have daily glucose, blood glucose monitoring. 02:48.000 --> 02:51.000 And he was getting tested once a month. 02:51.000 --> 02:53.000 So that's not great. 02:53.000 --> 02:55.000 And that can really pose some serious risks to his health. 02:55.000 --> 02:59.000 Was there a chance he could have been deported? 02:59.000 --> 03:02.000 So the case is ongoing, right? 03:02.000 --> 03:10.000 So he has been released from detention based on our motion in front of a federal district court judge. 03:11.000 --> 03:19.000 So Mr. Sarsour filed a petition for a writ of habeas corpus asking the federal judge to release him from the immigration detention. 03:19.000 --> 03:24.000 And the judge hasn't ruled on that habeas petition quite yet. 03:24.000 --> 03:36.000 But he did grant an interim release of Mr. Sarsour while the court adjudicates the habeas petition by saying that he's made a strong showing that he might prevail in the habeas petition. 03:37.000 --> 03:40.000 But that doesn't mean immigration cases over. 03:40.000 --> 03:45.000 So Mr. Sarsour is still fighting deportation in immigration court. 03:45.000 --> 03:47.000 And that's ongoing. 03:47.000 --> 03:48.000 Okay. 03:48.000 --> 03:50.000 You're a former immigration judge yourself. 03:50.000 --> 03:53.000 You've said this case is highly unusual. 03:53.000 --> 03:55.000 You've never seen anything like it. 03:55.000 --> 04:00.000 How much of the case is outside the bounds of what you'd normally see? 04:01.000 --> 04:06.000 I was an immigration judge in the Chicago immigration court for nine years. 04:06.000 --> 04:09.000 And I handled actually a detained docket. 04:09.000 --> 04:13.000 That's a docket of individuals who are in immigration custody. 04:13.000 --> 04:17.000 So very similar to the situation that Mr. Sarsour was in. 04:17.000 --> 04:21.000 And Mr. Sarsour's case is in fact in the Chicago immigration court. 04:21.000 --> 04:26.000 And I can tell you for one, I have never seen anything like this at all. 04:27.000 --> 04:33.000 First of all, the primary charge against them is, as you noted, that letter from Secretary 04:33.000 --> 04:40.000 of State Marco Rubio saying that Mr. Sarsour's really lawful activity in the United States 04:40.000 --> 04:44.000 poses a foreign policy risk to the United States. 04:44.000 --> 04:49.000 Now that is highly unusual and highly legally dubious. 04:49.000 --> 04:55.000 But the other thing that is extraordinary about this case is although the case is assigned 04:55.000 --> 05:01.000 to the Chicago immigration court, the judge that was assigned to hear the case is not 05:01.000 --> 05:03.000 a Chicago immigration court judge. 05:03.000 --> 05:10.000 It's actually a very senior level management judge in the executive office for immigration 05:10.000 --> 05:11.000 review. 05:11.000 --> 05:15.000 It's an acting regional deputy chief immigration judge. 05:15.000 --> 05:20.000 It's essentially the second in command of all the judges in the entire immigration court 05:20.000 --> 05:21.000 system. 05:21.000 --> 05:27.000 So that case was plucked out of the immigration court judges and specifically assigned to 05:27.000 --> 05:28.000 this one management judge. 05:28.000 --> 05:30.000 I've never seen that happen. 05:30.000 --> 05:35.000 So I gather you feel like you have a strong First Amendment case here that his rights, 05:35.000 --> 05:37.000 your client's rights were violated. 05:37.000 --> 05:39.000 Can you explain that? 05:39.000 --> 05:41.000 Absolutely. 05:41.000 --> 05:48.000 Mr. Sarsour, as a longtime permanent resident of the United States, has the same First Amendment 05:48.000 --> 05:55.000 rights to speak and to engage in political activity and political activism that essentially 05:55.000 --> 05:59.000 you and I do as citizens of the United States. 05:59.000 --> 06:06.000 And so what's really happening is the government is targeting him because they don't like his 06:06.000 --> 06:07.000 speech. 06:07.000 --> 06:11.000 And that is highly problematic. 06:11.000 --> 06:19.000 It violates the Constitution, the First Amendment, and we're very concerned to see 06:19.000 --> 06:22.000 these charges against him by the administration. 06:22.000 --> 06:26.000 So you mentioned this, that this case is not over. 06:26.000 --> 06:28.000 You have hearings coming up. 06:28.000 --> 06:29.000 How does this proceed? 06:29.000 --> 06:32.000 What happens next? 06:32.000 --> 06:40.000 So there's another hearing coming up at the end of July, July 22nd, in the immigration 06:40.000 --> 06:45.000 court, where the government has the burden of proof in this case. 06:45.000 --> 06:52.000 They have to prove the charges that they have made against him. 06:52.000 --> 06:57.000 And aside from the charges based on the Marco Rubio determination about foreign policy, 06:57.000 --> 07:02.000 there are some other charges that relate to things that have been decades and decades ago. 07:02.000 --> 07:05.000 Things the government has known about for a very long time. 07:05.000 --> 07:09.000 And we will fight these charges. 07:09.000 --> 07:13.000 We are, he has very good defenses and we are fighting them in immigration court. 07:13.000 --> 07:19.000 And if we lose immigration court, we will continue our fight all the way up as far as it takes. 07:19.000 --> 07:21.000 Because everyone knows what's going on here. 07:21.000 --> 07:24.000 It's not about anything that happened decades ago. 07:24.000 --> 07:26.000 It's about what he's doing now, his speech. 07:26.000 --> 07:30.000 And that's why he's being, that's why he's being targeted. 07:30.000 --> 07:31.000 All right. 07:31.000 --> 07:32.000 We'll be watching the case. 07:32.000 --> 07:34.000 Sam Cole, thank you so much for joining us. 07:34.000 --> 07:35.000 Thank you. 07:40.000 --> 07:41.000 Yes. 07:59.000 --> 08:08.000 It's not surprising to me that this case has gotten international attention because it is just part of a pattern by the Trump administration. 08:08.000 --> 08:10.000 To target people they don't like, right? 08:10.000 --> 08:17.000 They, they do what they can to target individuals who are saying things that, that they're not happy with. 08:17.000 --> 08:26.000 And so in terms, and for Mr. Sarsour, he's one of many Palestinian rights activists who have been targeted by the administration. 08:26.000 --> 08:40.000 Mr. Sarsour has gotten a tremendous amount of support from his community. 08:40.000 --> 08:43.000 He is really, he is, he is a community leader. 08:43.000 --> 08:47.000 He's the president of his mosque, which is the largest mosque in Wisconsin. 08:47.000 --> 08:53.000 He is beloved by many, many people, whether they're Muslim or Jews or Christians. 08:53.000 --> 08:59.000 So he has a very big support network because of who he is. 08:59.000 --> 09:04.000 And unfortunately, it doesn't mean this because you have a large support network. 09:04.000 --> 09:09.000 Doesn't mean that this administration isn't going to specifically go after you because of your speech. 09:09.000 --> 09:11.000 And that's what's happening. 09:11.000 --> 09:24.000 Yeah, thank you.