Alright, you can talk to me, don't worry about all of this.
Yeah, sure.
So I guess, let's go back to the beginning.
You were born in Montello, right?
Yes.
Yep.
And so did you grow up fishing?
Was fishing something passed down to you?
Yeah, I sure was.
My dad liked to fish and that's how I ended up in Montello because he was from Kenosha
and his parents and his grandfather would come up here fishing as tourists back in the
1920s and 30s.
So he met my mom in Montello.
She wasn't as his fish.
She was 13 and they ended up eventually falling in love getting married and then they moved.
He moved to Montello after World War II.
So my mom was still there, same house on the river, yeah, she's 96.
So yeah, it's kind of in my blood.
So how did she end up, did she work at a resort or helped out on the boat or she just
met him and he took her off?
Yeah, well her dad owned a bait, he was locked tender at the locks at the dam there and then
she would always be down there helping him and cleaning his rental boats and bailing
water out of them because they're wooden and that's how people shorefished and that's
how she met my dad.
So she would run around that fish not just for him but for other people too.
So yeah and I grew up there helping my grandfather then, her dad doing the same stuff.
Now was walleye the big thing back then?
Well walleyes were a big thing but it was a big catfish river, it was a fox river, so
a lot of catfish, crappies, some bass, smallmouth bass especially and of course a good number
of walleyes that would come out of Lake Puckaway, Lake Winnebago system, yeah.
So growing up for you was fishing a diversion or was it like a passion?
Always a passion, yeah I mean it was every day and it was 3 a.m. and before school it
was all weekend, it was all summer, yeah.
So then you were a ton before that you kind of came into your early life and trying to
find a job, trying to start a family and what was fishing at that point, was that
like where you wanted to get to?
Yeah, after high school I went to college all that kind of stuff and got drafted, bit
none more thing going on and came back and I worked at a resort when I came back.
Jobs were hard to find anyways so I thought well if I'm going to work for that same amount
of money I'll work at a resort and then I became a fishing guide there.
So that helped a lot and I really enjoyed that, getting people on fish and teaching
them how to fish and worked other jobs and my freelance writing started to do that.
The freelance writing was really the big stepping stone because I got to meet people in the
fishing industry, manufacturers, manufacturers, representatives, that kind of thing and of
course pro fishermen, excuse me, sorry about that.
And you know people in the industry, manufacturers, representatives, pro fishermen and so on and
other writers and resort owners, so it just kind of, like I said, the other day I'm
not caught the whole day, that didn't cough the whole time we were talking earlier,
no worries, ooh yeah you can keep a class and kind of buy you if you want to be a will.
I want a cup, yeah perfect, where's my fishing hall of faith, oh yeah that'll help, I hope
you want me to do that over, no that's a we'll just keep going from there, so you were
kind of manufacturing your own path anyway, yeah yeah kind of, I loved freelance writing
and I got fortunate enough to be able to write for all of the big three magazines, outdoor
life field and street sports field and then just little things, not a lot, but in those
days it paid very well and then if you had photographs as well, so I was finally making
a decent living and that but I always wanted to be not interviewing tournament anglers,
I wanted to be interviewing, I wanted to be the angler right and so I started fishing
bass tournaments, did well, I won the state championship, I won year and then met a guy
who fished the walleye circuit and he said hey how did you think that fished the walleye
circuit and I said I can't afford it and he said well I got a board, I got this, I got
that, we split the cost and so I paired up with him, we did really well, won three tournaments
of the very first year, sponsorships came and bam, then it really took off after that.
But Ron what time was that?
That was 1988-89.
So you'd paint your juice and that wasn't immediate right?
Oh no, sure wasn't and I didn't know if it would ever happen, I didn't expect it to,
but there was an opportunity, I did seize the opportunity and I set a goal, a five year
goal and I thought if I don't make these goals, in five years I'll get out, I made
them in one year, so then you couldn't get out because it was too fun and it paid well
so yeah.
So how does a professional walleye fisherman make a living, is it mostly from sponsorships
or from the tournament winnings or how does that happen?
At first it's a combination, usually when you start out you don't have sponsorships
or they're very small, but it all helps.
So then winnings really help, you gain notoriety, you get speaking engagements, you have to
be willing to do them and that means traveling all over the United States all the way along
it's where it shows and giving seminars on walleye fishing, I liked doing that anyway,
so whatever an opportunity was there I would take it and it's interesting because there
again they paid a lot for speakers, professional walleye angers were rare, prior to the mid-80s
the only walleye pros were outdoor writers who fished with good walleye guides, so they
knew how to do it and they knew and they would come into the shows and talk about it, there
was no competitive walleye angling, well once that started and you proved yourself a winner
then you could get the stage time to go and talk about your winning tactics and things
you do and how you learn and how to tweak things and just how to be a better angler.
So for some of the people that would show up to this were they hoping to be competitive
anglers or these just your average fishermen who just wanted to get a little better and
catch the wall?
Usually most of the time it's guys that they want to be, they want to win, you talk to
them that they compete in a lot of stuff, they race the whole wheel, cars, they do all
that kind of stuff, dirt bikes, they're always racing, but yeah they're competitors, so
that they do it for the competition, they want to win, some want to do it to make a living,
some just do it because they enjoy the competition but they hit maybe owner-owned business,
I have some other jabbing away from, self-employed, whatever, they're never looking to become
a full-time professional, they don't want to speak at shows in the winter and they
want to go to Florida and fish our winter, you get it under yachts, so which is good
because if everybody wanted to do that then it waters down the whole field, so there's
always a handful and it's always the same guys year after year after year doing these
circuits and we would, a handful of us would speak and take a regular route and then actually
we have a different route and third year another route and then they're ready for you again
two or three years later and some sports shows would have you every year.
So how much of what percentage of your life was actual tournaments versus talking about
tournaments?
Yeah, well the tournaments would run from mid-March to October and then all the time after that
you're not tournament fishing, if that's your profession you've got to make money in the winter
and of course that's most of it because March, October, it's about half a year, so you got your
other half is speaking engagements period or guiding, a lot of guys still guided in between
and guided lead into fall and early spring, I quit guiding three years into it, I could
just couldn't keep doing it and mainly because I was fishing three circuits, once while I
tournament circuits proved successful then all these other circuits started popping up
bigger money, you know getting sponsorships from elsewhere and longer travel, you weren't
especially midwest anymore but if that was your profession that's what you did, you just went
where the tournaments were and the paybacks were way better, sponsors liked it so that the more you
did the more you got paid to do it, that's kind of how it works and then the rest of the time of the
year you're promoting sponsors during your seminars. So for you did you get a chance to come back
to Wisconsin and fish here or was that kind of lost to you for a time? Oh it's really lost,
the only time I fished in Wisconsin was when it was a tournament here, we would come, I was
like I said fishing two or three circuits, one time three, I did 19 tournaments that year,
not counting the championships, so my wife and I she would travel with me and help me out, she was
kind of my jack of all trades and she would take care of all the side distractions that I
didn't want to have to do, I wanted to focus on fishing, so she would take care of all that and
so that yeah when I came home all I did was get the boat ready for the next tournaments, I didn't
even have time to fish here but the tournament was I won a bag, if it was in Green Bay,
Pete Moflauge, kind of the most popular person for walleye tournaments, yeah then I fished.
So this, our documentary is talking about walleye in Wisconsin as a significant cultural species,
I was connected to economy and tourism and tournaments and so for you did, did walleye still hold a
special place or once it became like a livelihood, did it kind of shift?
That's a great question, walleye, because I grew up fishing walleyes in the Fox River,
they're like the golden boy of the fishery, you know I mean everybody, the elusive wily
walleye, that's all we ever read about or heard about and how hard they were to catch and they
were never hard for me to catch, I never bought that, I never thought why do people keep saying
that because it's not true but for a lot of people they can be, there are special fish and
yes, when I would come home, we have a walleye run here in March, up the Fox River and I would
always fish that and then there would always be a smaller run on the fall and I would fish that
and then I'd do some walleye fishing on Big Green Lake and do some, because I guided for walleye
so Lake Pacaway, same way, I quit fishing in Wisconsin River because I just didn't need to go there
because I could catch them elsewhere, fishing all over the US made me a better angler here
but fishing here made me a way better angler elsewhere and I think that's why the Wisconsin
tournament anglers especially were so good under professional walleye trail, I mean we just
outshined everybody, almost everybody, just because of our knowledge of fishing on this one
of bagel system, a tough system but once you got to figure it out man, it's so good, you know
so that's the key, like once you, if you could fish them here you can do it anywhere
yeah I believe that and well I proved it and so have several other anglers so yeah
so you had the ultimate home field test to home field advantage thing
absolutely and you know even yet when I catch a walleye today I mean I just look at that, I just
marvel at that fish, it's just a very special fish and I never, no I never took it for granted,
I mean I could catch the replacement going and catch a hundred walleyes a day, you know there's
fisheries in North America that good and even in a half a day sometimes it's so plentiful
but you never got tired of it, you never got tired of going the next day and catching some
more fish and catching those walleyes and it didn't matter if they were 10 pounds or 10 inches,
you know it's just not for me anyway for some people maybe but not for me it's just a special
fish so what's the, what's it like to have a walleye on, is it the anticipation for you of like
when they're about to or setting the book or is it, get them in the book, what are the different
moments in that action? Yeah I'm a caster so I'm casting baits out retrieving, I mean I catch
obviously I have to learn how to catch walleyes in every method to be professional, you can't just
use one thing or you get a lot of zeros, you know so I had to learn these other methods but my
favorite is casting, usually casting a jig, pitching it out, working a lot on the bottom when you feel
that it's just something special, it's just like that, you know right away what it is and I know a
lot of fish bites and small moth bite like that and a large moth might and a pike might but
but you can, if you're caught enough and didn't enough you can tell and just just feeling that,
I mean it's exciting, I mean the most exciting thing for me in fishing is the bite,
it was the same way musky fishing, bass fishing, top water, that's the most exciting thing,
actually finding and catching the fish is no big you know that's all part of the stick but
feeling that bite is so cool, it says it sends such a rush you know and it's in walleyes way
more subtle than those other fish but but maybe that's what makes it so much better and because
they're in the perch family perch bite the same way even more subtle so I love the fish perch with
jigs the same way, it's just to feel that little tap and yeah that's the deal, it's like
what's the best part about bobber fishing when the bobber goes down, the same thing and I still
get excited about that when I fish with bobbers so yeah so I mean it could you have been as
successful as you have been without still enjoying every part of it, no I don't think so, I don't
think so I mean yeah it's a job I never, I don't know every fish I caught even if it wasn't a
keeper you know even if it wasn't a money fish it was just wow you know it's just that wow
fact or every time it wasn't like that, that you know I don't care and I didn't just throw it you
know I would never do that, just drop them over the side and let them go because that fish is
special I mean you know that's 10 years from now he's that 10 pounder you know so why didn't you
go into small boat, is that you know bass tournaments or what a lot of people, most of the average
non-fishermen they've heard of big bass tournaments you see right, oh yeah but it seems like that's
where the money would be so why, that's totally where the money is and still is and but the money
started to come into the walleye thing in the in the late 1980s and I thought well this isn't
bass and I would and I always wanted to be a bass guy I mean you know those guys
they had the TV shows and a lot of those guys actually are friends of mine today because we're
all in the industry but but and they would always tease me that was fishing those, fishing those
walleyes and they were always you never gonna make any money doing that why don't you get into the
bass and but that's an expensive deal I mean you just you just yeah and just to get through all
the qualifying and stuff to do it is brutal but there are guys that they're still doing it
these young guys today are just amazing how they've come in and we've got some in our own state here
that's great you know fishing all over the country for bass had the walleye thing
not panned out say the money was never there I couldn't tell you if I would have gotten
into bass or not I may have probably just kept freelancing writing guiding you know doing both
because it was something I liked and it was easy and it was here and you know it didn't have a
lot of expenses turn on fishing is expensive I mean even in the even in the 90s you're dropping
25 to 35,000 a year and that was a lot of money back then if you didn't have the sponsors
it was coming out of your own pocket you couldn't sustain that if you weren't good you know if you
just showed up and fished so you really had to perform it's a performance performance sport
yeah well you're talking about that before but how much of it is mental
comparing it I mean it's it is interesting that you've heard people talk about pro athletes and
there's a lot more people that have the same physical qualifications right but they may not
have the mental makeup well yeah you see that all the time I mean if you watch a lot of sports you
see that in an athlete and you see it in so many guys were Heisman Trophy winners know that they
had this the physical skill but they didn't have what we call it they didn't have it they just
couldn't make it work with a team now granted fishing is not a team sport well it can be but
most of the time it's not so it's individual it's you against the fish you against yourself and
you can't control anything anybody else is doing you just have to focus on what you're doing
so the the longer you stay in the game mentally the better chance you have and and but you still
got to have the skills you just can't say well I'm a Jake Fisherman I hate trolling
period that's me okay I'm a Jake Fisherman I hate trolling that was me in 1988 by 1995
I had I look I got to learn how to do this because we're on more and more lakes we control
I got to learn how to fish bottom bounces and spinner rigs I got to learn how to fish
slip bobber rigs and and have the patience to do it which is a whole mental game and
and I learned and learned all those things I want tournaments doing all those things
and had I not been versatile I would have maybe won one or two tournaments
doing it the way I like and that don't pay the bills yeah you know if you're independently
wealthy you don't care fine do you stick but but but then what you're gonna do you know I if I'm
going to a sport show and and do a seminar and somebody the audience says how do you work planar
boards how do you how much line do you set back on on a floating bait floating rapper for example
small lip you know how deep does it go about it you got to answer those questions if you want to
continue to to excel in the sport you got to know this stuff and and and a lot of guys didn't want
to learn it they said I don't like doing that something I can learn it well so you you guided
for quite a few years before what's the experience like as a guide well I guess what's the the these
are different roles of how people see a guide like I can I'll take you there and show you versus
I'll give you an experience yeah um guide I had a real love hate relationship with guiding
because you book a guide trip they want to go and they don't care if the wind's blowing
if it's raining it's snowing and you don't want to go you would beat up all day the day before
with guiding you have an eight hour day in the boat with with two clients okay so you get up
at four a.m. get everything ready get ready and go and get the bait get the tackle you know
meet meet them at the ramp they're all fired up okay they've had to they've had breakfast you have
and you grab some coffee a quick trip or whatever you know and it did a horrible donut and and
as you breakfast so they're they're fired up they get out there they fish you fish all day
uh fish may not be doing so well cold front whatever and so you have to make them feel like
they're having a good time having a good experience uh you have to have a whole lifetime of stories
to tell to share with them uh people in common that you might know that you can tell stories about
and it's all way more just sitting there like a bump on a log all day in the boat not talking
and moving around the places you got to know your lake you got to know the techniques you got to
be willing to say look guys wallies aren't going to bite i mean this cold front so bad let's go
you want to catch some let's go fish northerners or something yeah well it's better or nothing
then you go out and you catch 20 northerners and a couple of great big giant ones they had a
great day they didn't get their walleyes but they still had a great day then there's no fish days
i guaranteed fish so if i had a no fish day with client clients i would say look it's guaranteed
come back we'll do this again i said this is not going to happen twice so and uh some would take
me up on some wouldn't you know and it always felt bad i always felt like you know let them down you
know uh as a guide and yeah it's it's a hard job and you drop them off okay then they got
fish they want you to help clean them so you help clean the fish and anyone had a lot to suffer
with it they want to buy a supper then you maybe sit around and have a few beverages and you get
home at 10 o'clock at night and you got charged batteries you got to get paid for the next day
you got to get everything all cleaned up because you got two new people the next day i don't know
how these guys do it i mean i did it and it was hard and i know guys that do it they just love it
every day they go here we go let's go get some fish i'm like and they won't even get the fish
like i didn't fish i let them fish i only fish to show them how to you know how to do it but
so then you're not even fishing so that man it's wicked so that's why you did it when he'd
pay some bills tournament fish it was way more fun believe me although a guy didn't even meet
so many cool people and and you get repeat customers like crazy you know but there's got to be a
joy that comes from giving them an experience when they have those oh for sure my favorite was guiding
you know dad and his son or dad and his daughter the kids getting the fish i mean that that
those were special i tried to do more of that than adults i'm sure you get a lot of guys that
think they know a lot and they're just they're there to learn you know where's the good spot
i'll have to pay the next time right um yeah one of the toughest is you get them on good fish
you go on the next day and they're there with their buddies and their boss you can't even
fish them with your clients yeah that happens too but is what it you know it's part of the deal
you know so did you you also eat walleye i mean was that oh heck yeah yeah still do
yeah every chance i get i i fish walleye is a little now i don't fish them a lot
uh you know there's just my wife and i and you know one uh 18 inch walleye is a meal
i don't need five you know i don't need three so uh yeah just get get one for meal next time
she wants walleye go get another one it's kind of like the permanent freezer that's always stocked
yeah you get them get them fresh you know yeah but what is it about walleye eating them that's
different than other fish uh yeah they're they're flaky i mean they're uh they're more solid
i really think actually northern pike is just as good you know a lot of people don't think so i do
you know i eat both you know still do let's do yeah and there's this whole stigma around the walleye
you know uh the price of them in a restaurant for example some people think you know if i'm paying
20 bucks for a meal of walleye is it must really taste good oh yeah that's delicious and they
take this is in here you know yeah well that's interesting because there is a lot of mystique
around walleye in wisconsin what's the history of that where did all that how did that that
culture get built up around this one fish well i i think the guides i think the guides
perpetrate a lot of that mainly because they can be tough to catch for the average fishermen
they don't act all the time like they're not as predictable as other fish for one thing
um they move they don't they have short feet shorter feeding periods and a lot of fish they're
very good at feeding so they catch you know their bait fish pretty quick and and then they shut
down and uh so i i think that the fact that they're more difficult to find to catch
has made has created this whole mystique about walleye fishing and they're always not always but
they're they're often in deep water and shallow water fish are always easier to catch and no
matter what's a species so deeper water fish are tougher you know more line more mistakes more
snags more things that that you you have less control over that the more line you have about
the less control you have always and uh and so yeah we're in a bagel being shallow
puck away fox river being shallow uh easy easy peasy so i never looked at them as being hard to catch
uh till i got in a tournament trail i had to fish deep water fish oh wait wait a minute
i'm never done this you know so you have i shouldn't say never but you have to learn
the whole the way they act differently in different bodies of water too you know so
but yeah i mean it seems like it's the combination of they're big they're not easy they don't jump
in the boat right and then the value of what they're like on the plane like those two things
together sure and not and they're a nocturnal species so a lot of times they've come up to feed
shallow at night and that's when you catch them like the last half hour before dark so it's like
a crazy half hour fishing and then nothing okay so so a lot of people don't get that opportunity
or early morning uh so there's that but of course in professional fishing we didn't fish at night
we fish in the daytime so we had to learn how to adjust how do we get these fish to bite in the
daytime where are they how do we make them bite and uh i don't know that you could make them bite
mm-hmm you know uh but you can you can at times trigger some fish with certain
tricks and tweaks and stuff you do with presentation which gets us into a whole
another four-hour summer on how to present the bait properly to the mood of the fish yeah
so when it when you look back at the the history of like you said this place was up north for a
lot of people yes and then there's up north today which is hayward or whatever yeah how much of
that mystique plays into up north like it had to be a tribal a destination for a lot it's kind of
that too yeah uh where it in the same way with northern pike you know it's kind of like a you know
it's a Canadian that whole Canadian walleye norther that's all they ever talk about up there
come up to Canada and catch all these fish well we have these fish and so uh and we have these
fish all the way into Illinois so in Michigan Minnesota so why why do i have to go there but uh
uh so yeah people want they want to catch those fish they think big fish so we get the big fish
you know and the big predator fish is always part of that because because they they do grow big
people don't eat a lot of you know people never ate a lot of bass in Wisconsin they did
when i was a kid for subsistence a lot of a lot of the neighbors that ate bass all the time
uh but other people would we don't eat bass well they didn't have to they had walleyes
they had norther and say had perts bluegills uh like we and we still do today when they can
they don't have to eat these other fish but there's nothing wrong with those fish
and you just don't want to eat them in July you know but the rest of the year when the water is
cool or cold they're fine you know but because of the abundance of these good eating fish so to speak
but then those same people ate ball heads and catfish and and they're they're no great
meal but they're not horrible either so you need a matter of fish you know
so one of the things that we're looking at is how much attention the state and like the DNR or
the universities and their researchers are glyph wick or the tribes and they're all the stocking
and the research and the studies and there's a lot of attention on one species yeah is it warranted
for that one species to have so much money sunk into it these in a lot of places the
populations are declining due to a number of different factors and there's so much effort
being like bring back the walleye is that is that needed is that worth it or should i just let it
you know all i decline in an area they decline and something else will come in
if if the money's there if the resources are there yeah i mean why not we've done it with trout we
did it with muskies i mean why not uh yeah you don't the species you don't have to really manage
like bass for example in blue gills i mean they kind of take care of themselves and uh yeah they
can get started they can get over a bundle and things can happen there too but they rebalance
a faster fast growing and rebound and and he can live in almost anything you know but where
walleyes need you know better water cleaner water generally uh perch the same way perch
walleyes are they're important to to the angler they like to fish him they like to keep them they
like to eat them i think reducing the limit to three uh will really go on ways to help that and
places where they where they've done slot limits in other states and even in
wisconsin it's done wonders in places that i used to fish uh where you could barely catch one over
fifteen inches not today with the slot limits you can catch lots of big fish and we have to release
them uh but that's okay you don't want to eat those anyway so so you but you can still keep
some 14 13 15 inch walleyes if you want i think 13 is a little small but uh because these fish
at that size grow pretty fast from the time of their finger length of the time they
they reach 15 18 inches is three years depending on male or female so so that's pretty good i mean
for fish to be out plate ready if you want to use use that term you know um so is it worth a
heck yeah and uh you know and with what the tribes are doing with the stocking is you know
obviously it's a great PR thing but but it's also an important uh resource thing because we get
the fish those lakes too and i fished quite a bit on a uh elective flambo foliage i know
several tribal people up there that i've worked with over the years and PR and other stuff years
ago uh but those some of those lakes up there are just loaded with fish and uh they don't even
aren't even aware the public's not even aware that you can fish those in the summer you know yeah
they're heavily speared but there's a lot of fish there well yeah when you look you know people
look at the spear and they look at the uh how many fish are taken so it took 35 000 fish well
uh that's not it's a lot because it's you got the stats there but you don't have the stats of the
hook and line and you don't have the stat you know which is way way way way higher and so i think the
state has kind of figured out at this point yeah this three fish limit is a good idea it's a good
thing once people are used to that you know it only wants a limit yeah i got my limit it's way
easier to catch three than five or five than ten so if you lower the limit to three they still
got their limits if four or five guys have used plenty of fish that's enough fish and that's just
walleyes you can catch other fish to eat too it's just just a hat doesn't have to just be walleyes
you know canada's been doing this forever you know you can hard to bring any fish back
from there and those lakes are so full of fish it's crazy you get it you got to be afraid to
wash your hands in there you know when you get your fingers bit off you know it's just nuts and
yet people complain about that i must say you know just it's just wise use and and it can work
it does work it's proven that it works yeah so talk to me a little bit about the importance
of relationships in fishing obviously you have yeah a different dynamic you know with your wife
being an active part of your career but i'm sure you know people who like either leave the wife at
home or maybe the wife gets a little upset about the amount of time spent in the boat and how how
does that get managed sir well like any career sometimes it don't you know and
and people just go their separate ways but tournament fishing because of the scheduling
is tough i mean it's really tough a lot of guys would bring their wives and my wife loved that
because she got to be friends with the the wives of the fishermen and and they would do stuff together
and so on and a lot of them still do travel with their husbands a few fish with their husbands
like in partner tournaments and so on do well they do very well but it's a strain i mean any
regardless of what you're doing it's a strain but you can you can have that same strain if you
worked at nine to five you know you know the guy comes home from work and then he goes and goes to
the bar all night and plays shoots pool plays dark i did all this stuff shoot pool and do this
and play baseball and uh all summer and and you know that's the same thing you're there but you're
not there you know i mean physically there but you're not there and because you're not doing
anything with your spouse so yeah it's so yeah you have that and you there's something that the two
have to work out uh like you would with any any other jobs yeah is there a way to make those
i mean is it because we've heard from some couples that say oh well we've come a long way to build
or read a book in the book yeah you can still go out in the water there's others as well no it's
his time and here's my time well i yeah you just got to decide you're not going to be as selfish as
you are and uh with your time and that's hard for a lot of guys and girls i mean just it's not just
the guys guys but a lot of times it is we're say okay um i need i need to spend some time here with
you and i'm gonna make the time to do that and uh i wasn't real good at that early in my career it was
much better or later uh something i had to learn as well because it can you yeah you can go this
way pretty fast if you're uh your spouse wants attention and if you if you're not giving her attention
she's gonna find attention so uh nobody wants that neither does she so uh so you just gotta
not be selfish and and uh make time yeah well it probably helped you that she was a part of
everything right it did i mean uh you know you think about that you got kids who's who's doing
everything with the kids she is just taking up to all her games she is school she is you're you're
fishing you know it don't look good you know it doesn't look good because it's not and uh and
but you know you get manner may can be driven and uh to the point i'm not seeing that and not
appreciating that and uh and again you gotta you're gonna come back to reality and that means you
got to sit down when you're home you got to be home you can't be in mollacks you know because
that's your next tournament you know you just got back from Lake Erie and not your home but your
heads of mollacks because that's where you're going tomorrow and uh that that's precious time
together you got to block that out and really spend that time with her and and and and that's
enough sometimes sometimes that's not enough but but it's it's better than nothing and uh
and once once it all falls into place and things can happen for you uh in like with Sherry she gave
up she was a real estate broker at a time when uh that that thing was just exploding and uh she
gave that up to travel with me um to help me in my career that was a big sacrifice for her for
both of us because her income was even better than mine at that time and what have way been
been way better you know you know uh everything she makes a lot of money tournament fishing you
know but uh um yeah I mean millions of dollars but but she was wanting to give that up give up
her career to be with me and she loved it I mean we had did a lot I mean we went to places
together we had never ever been able to afford to go to or take the time to go to yeah that
sponsors paid for and that you know when you get at that level it's amazing what what you can do
and the people you meet and and stuff you can see concerts and all kinds of crazy things
so talk to me about the the Hall of Fame how did that come to me
to get into the fishing hall of fame is very simple you first of all you have to be nominated
by someone no matter who you are or how great you are if you're not nominated you don't get it
so you have to be nominated by someone so someone nominated me and uh and uh years ago 30 years ago
and I was so busy fishing I didn't even care I mean you aren't nominated great I don't know
I don't have time to deal with that so uh and um I didn't get it and um so then several years later
another guy Joel Coons friend of mine so I'm gonna nominate you for a lot of favors and
I saw a lot of time and he goes well you don't need to do anything I'll do it okay so
he nominated me and he put together a resume and stuff and I didn't get in okay so uh but then I
got a little more interested because now I'm in my 70s and then I'd be kind of nice and then
and uh so um you get three chances so uh uh we did a re nomination or he did and it was
and did a better job I did a better job of getting the information that they wanted
that he needed that he couldn't get out of me because I was too busy doing other stuff and uh and
so you have to the protocols you have to follow if you don't follow them even no matter what your
resume says if you don't follow their specific protocols you can't get in so I did that and
the vote is always uh you have a committee a ten-member committee it has to be unanimous
so um which makes it very very difficult and um in the unanimously uh voted me in in 2025 so
um yeah it was it's quite quite the deal I mean it's it's very honoring
really humbling because the people that are in that I mean if you look at the what what am I
doing in this you know with these guys over here but uh um yeah it's uh it's a it's a great honor
and uh there's a whole lot of people that aren't in that way better fishermen I ever was and uh and
they should be in but you have to follow the rules to get in just like you do with anything
you know so it takes uh a lot of due diligence to uh to get it done the proper way to follow
proper channels and do it all all correctly but obviously it can be done so does it feel like a
cherry on top to your your career or is it uh oh sure oh sure yeah I mean I mean I never
this is why I never took it so seriously the other two times because that well if I get it again
if I didn't I never knew that they had protocols or rules or things you had to follow uh to do this
I said well here I am this is me you know I can catch fish and have one tournaments and
I spoke to millions of people and blah blah blah blah and uh so okay you're like nah
there today fishing all famous uh set anew as a whole new set of rules curricula you have to
follow and and so much of it is media uh what have you done where have you done a promote fishing
you know not only with scotch but in the world what have you done uh to teach people of fish
in your career uh if you just tournament fish if you just guided a lot of people that are in
hall of fame are in because of that because of those two things but today that's not enough today
with all the month I may party have do you have a podcast do you have a show a tv show how do you
reach people and uh have you worked with state agencies and restoration projects and so so it's
much more deeper now than it used to be and I and it's understandable I mean when you start out
guy starts out hey I'm starting hall of fame well who are you going to put it well how about
joe he's a great fisherman okay you know and and it's true I mean some some of the really early
inductees in hall of fame are great guides you know but they couldn't do it fishermen could do
the day to promote the sport of angling and and I think that uh and and biologists so more and
more they're leaning toward people who are much writers but not just writers writers are fishermen
writers that promote writers that work with nonprofit organizations with other fisheries
organizations other groups I mean it's just expanded so much manufacturers that have done
contributed hundreds of thousands of dollars at the industry that get kind of stuff so yeah it's
not it's hard it's really hard to get in I'm proof of that you just can't get in because
somebody knows you're a great fisherman anymore yeah the the 10 member the 10 member voting panel
are very very tough and uh and I think that's a good thing of course I can say that because I
because I made it but but yeah I mean I mean do they give you a call when that wouldn't happen
or you get a letter or how does that work