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The

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latest hearing challenging the Enbridge Line 5 oil and gas pipeline in northern Wisconsin

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unfolded late this week.

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The Bad River Band of Lake Superior Chippewa and environmental groups want state permits

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already approved to be reversed and to halt any pipeline construction.

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The Circuit Court judge in the case isn't expected to rule until the end of this month

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at the earliest.

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Even though Line 5 construction is being re-rooted around the reservation, the band

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worries about damage to upstream and Lake Superior water.

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For more on this we turn to Bad River Band chairwoman Elizabeth Arbuckle and thanks for

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much for being here.

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Thanks for having me.

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So fundamentally I've had people ask why the concerns if the pipeline has been re-rooted

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to skirt reservation lands.

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I'm sorry can you repeat that?

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I've had people ask why are there concerns if the pipeline has been re-routed to skirt

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reservation lands.

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Got you.

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Well there's been lots of reasons to be worried or concerned and one of them is when

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they do the construction they are going to be stirring up mercury deposits from acid rain

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from decades past and those have settled.

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So when they come through to do that that's going to stir up these deposits which are

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then going to go directly into our waterways.

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They are just hugging our reservation.

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It's not like they went miles and miles away.

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It's literally a stone's throw from our land and reservation boundaries and that is going

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to stir up these mercury deposits that have been in our wetlands and go into our water

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and go into Lake Superior.

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We already have mercury deposit warnings and can only one walleye a week or a month depending

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on your age and gender and that's problematic.

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So if we get more mercury that's going to affect our fishing industry.

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It's certainly affecting our Ojibwe culture because like walleye for example is a major

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part of our culture so that's what we worry about.

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The mercury upsets they also worry about the blasting they're going to do in the reroute

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which is in the Pinocchi Mountains just off the reservation.

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That's another thing that we don't know what we don't know.

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They say oh it's safe it's fine.

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And then they'll show you a blast of a different event but you know that's not apples to apples.

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They're different rocks.

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It's a different situation.

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What studies have they done on these mountains and what can we expect to be released?

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We're very worried about heavy metals coming into our waterways.

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The other one is our treaty rights and this is key because the way they want to do the

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reroute and so we'll say this is the reservation and they're going to go like that with this

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being Lake Superior.

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So on all three sides they're going to surround us and encircle us and that's problematic

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because they're still in our seat of territory.

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We still have rights to hunt fish and gather in this land.

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And we're not going to be able to cross into our reservation without asking them permission.

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That's not what we signed up for.

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That's not the spirit of the law.

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That's not been the interpretations and the understanding of our treaty rights.

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So cutting that off, cutting us off from our land, from our own homeland, from accessing

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our treaty rights that were allowed to use, which have been upheld, that's problematic

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and that's something we're all worried about.

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So those are just a few examples of things we're concerned about.

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What is your response to the DNR and Enbridge saying that environmental issues have been

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exhaustively researched and addressed?

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I say I don't think so, right?

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I mean, like I said, everyone's been ignoring this mercury problem and the problem with

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the heavy metals that are going to be released by the land.

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So I don't think they have been exhaustively researched.

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For the amount of research WDNR does, they, like I said, they have fish regulations.

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We can't buy little thermometers with mercury in them anymore because they know how hazardous

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this is.

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The state of Wisconsin knows how hazardous it is.

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And yet there seems to be no concern about the sleeping mercury that we have in the wetlands

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area on and near our reservation, well that we have throughout this area that they're

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going to disturb.

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This is quite the protracted challenge to line five.

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There are also intertwining federal cases.

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Why the protracted fight?

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What do you mean why the protracted fight?

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What's at stake?

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What's at stake for the Bad River Band?

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Right.

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I mean, I don't think anybody wants a protracted fight, but it's the outcome that's important,

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not the battle.

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So we have to protect our homeland.

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We have to protect Lake Superior.

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We have to protect our treaty rights and those that, you know, that our fellow other Ojibwe

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fans in northern Wisconsin exercise and hold with us as well.

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So it's, I mean, we're definitely tired of it because it's ripped apart our community.

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They've done, Enbridge has done a massive PR campaign outside, just outside the reservation

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and within our reservation.

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And that's all calculated to win their PR War.

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So they've turned tribal members against each other, which is really unfortunate.

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So nobody wants that.

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Nobody enjoys the fight.

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Nobody enjoys the rift.

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But in the end, we have to hold the line.

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This is our homeland.

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This is what we've got.

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We signed a treaty back in 1854 that kept bad river at bad river.

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Our ancestors meant that.

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They meant for that to never be for sale and that would always be used and it would always

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be protected.

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And so that's, this isn't me.

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This was a charge made, you know, you know, over a hundred years ago and it was designed

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so that it will always stay a hundred years from now.

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So unfortunately it is exhausting.

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It is expensive.

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It can be hurtful, you know, and painful.

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But, you know, we're not doing this to be difficult.

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We're doing this because this is our home.

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We have to stand up with each other and for our people, you know, and it's nice that

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we were, we had a case yesterday in Bayfield County.

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And so that was, that was important because we had, are you going to get to that later?

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You're going to edit this interview.

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Please tell me yes, right?

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Yeah, we may, but go ahead.

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What did you experience in that courtroom?

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So the court case we had in Bayfield County yesterday was we had asked for a stay, right?

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We had asked for them to throw out the permits and for Enbridge to not be able to proceed.

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Enbridge still does not have access to, to all of this land.

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So I, I don't know why they're starting.

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There's still four permits they don't have.

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There's still lots of questions about how they're going to get under and around the

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hundred and, or at least the 70 plus waterways, right, they have over 180 waterways they're

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going to be crossing.

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So they haven't, they haven't made, they haven't given us these answers yet.

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And we're still waiting to hear that.

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So while we were there, I reached out to tribal leaders across the state and all the

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Chippewa nations in northern, in Minnesota and, and, and, and Michigan.

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And the outpouring of love and support was enormous.

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Almost all the tribal leaders from the tribes in Wisconsin showed up.

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Lots of letters were sent.

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We stand together, right?

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We stand united.

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We've gotten a lot of support from our local neighbors and communities, our non-tribal

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friends and neighbors in local communities and towns, environmental groups, local and

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statewide and nationwide.

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This is something we all care about, right?

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This is preserving our environment and protecting our environments.

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You've got, you've got tribal sovereignty issues, you've got environment issues.

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There's, there's a, there's a lot of angles and, and parts of this, which people identify

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with and care about.

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So do you feel as though you will prevail?

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Yes, I have to believe we will prevail.

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In the end, we have to.

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The stakes are too high, right?

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I, I can't, I can't imagine not.

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We need to, we need to preserve Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin, Lake Superior, and we're

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on the front lines for that.

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And so we're willing to do that.

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It's, like I said, it's, it's, it's even bigger than our reservation, right?

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It's even bigger than that because those waterways lead right to Lake Superior.

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So it's really important.

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We all think and study and look and see what they're saying and work toward, you know,

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stopping it.

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All right.

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Chair Whelan, Elizabeth Arbuckle, we leave it there.

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Thank you so much for your time.

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Thank you.

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Appreciate you having me.

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Well, yes, ma'am.

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Well, they have other rewrote options, right?

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They elected to not use them.

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There are other options that go further away, you know, further away from the reservation

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outside of the mountains, kind of skirting around the mountains on the southern end there.

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So they have a plan, C and D, that they can look at well, probably, but it's very expensive

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for us to think, you know, nobody's going to be able to eat walleye anymore or, you

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know, we could risk our treaty rights.

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Those are priceless.

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Those are, you know, invaluable.

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So that to me is, is absolutely worth fighting for and something that we should think about

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as, as being priceless.

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Thank you.

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Great.

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You were great.

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Nice to speak with you.

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I was told it was going to not be live and you were going to be able to edit it.

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Well, we are certainly going to have to edit it at the top when I, you couldn't hear my

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question or whatever.

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So we will, yeah, there'll be, there'll be some edits.

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It was great.