right. Stormtrooper, Chewbacca, or one of them or whatever, yeah. That sounds like
him. Yeah. Definitely. So I guess let's start talking about marijuana policy.
Where are we in terms of what do you think you want to see introduced? Where
should the debate be? So for the last three sessions I've been working on a
bill around medical marijuana and it's slowly gaining, caucuses are very much
more open to it. We've seen a marijuana movement across the U.S. as far as, you
know, states legalizing either medical or recreational. So I have been working
with the speaker in the assembly and we've, he has a bill that he would like to
introduce, I have my bill. So in the next, I'll say two weeks, maybe longer, just
because busy schedules, we're gonna sit down and we're gonna kind of compare the
two bills and see what we have in common and see if we can't merge it into one.
If we can, that's gonna be great. If not, we'll probably run two versions of the
bill. So I know in past sessions, your bill's been introduced towards the end
and you've been criticized saying, well, she's slow playing this deliberately
introducing it, but then not like actually working. So what, what takes, I mean,
talk to the process. There's a lot of people to understand that you have to
build that consensus. So number one, you have to build the consensus and last
session, I worked with the leadership in the Senate. What the majority leader is
open to me moving medical marijuana through the Senate president, not so much.
He's not a fan of this legislation. So I held the bill. I had a compromise with
him where we held the bill and then we heard it. A little bit after session was
over, but that was the compromise for me to actually even get a hearing on the
bill so that we could get more information out there and have people
weigh in. And that gave my colleagues a chance to watch it on Wisconsin and I
or a tendon person and actually see what what were people saying. So we were in
Marinette earlier this week. We spoke with the district attorney Deshae Moro. We
spoke with someone from the sheriff's office, the drug and addiction officer.
Obviously that's a big port in the city's not part of your district, but that
border is. Absolutely. What are you hearing from constituents, both good and
bad? So I, the hardest thing right now is Michigan is legal and we are not. When
I say that for law enforcement, so our law enforcement is dealing with illegal
products in our state that are legal in Michigan and people crossing over the
border and it is putting a lot of strain on law enforcement and on our DA. So
there is a certain segment in that area knowing that and watching that happen,
the additional costs of the counties that are 100% they do not want any
legalization, whether medical or recreational. And that comes from the
burden with the two different rules or the two different laws in two different
states. Overall, my district other than that, when they have polled or there was
a few years back where there was advisory referendums and things, they were
very much in favor of medical marijuana. Actually, the state is in favor of
medical. So is the, where's the disconnect when it comes to the
legislature? Because obviously you have to, there's a lot of support on the
Democratic side, but you have to have enough votes among Republicans only
typically to advance these bills. So is it more working within your own party
and convincing them, especially those that may not represent parts of the
state that have dealt with this? So there's a lot of hurdles. So you have the
med society that is not in favor of this. They do not think it's necessary. They
feel the science behind it is not true science. And to a certain extent, I
agree with them because it's a schedule one drug at the federal level, it is not
researched as heavy as I would like to see it researched to actually, you know,
improve some of the theories. You can look at other countries research, but
our, it seems like Wisconsinites or Americans think only our research is
good sometimes. So I do find that, and I'm disappointed in the med society on
their stance. I think that, you know, because I think their members are very
split also on it. And then you have, I mean, we've had people that have
testified that use medical marijuana in other states as a counselor to help
with addiction issues, to help with PTS issues. And they are like, it's not good
for young people. It's not good for undeveloped brains. So you have a
community that's, you know, the medical community as a whole can be very
split on it. So that's kind of where our members are like, well, I hear this,
but I hear this, you know, and, and they represent areas who probably aren't
just in favor of this as some of the other areas. When it comes to the bills
that Senator A guard is advancing, does that help or hurt your efforts to move
medicinal marijuana? Some people look at that as the slippery slope, like we
go to medicinal, and then a few years later, that'll be the push. So it is the
fact that she's got a parallel bill advancing that, make yours look like a
compromise or make yours look like the slippery slope. I think in a lot of ways
it makes it harder for me to get this done. You know, when Senator Erpenbach
was in, I had gone to John and I'm like, you know, this here's the bill, John,
because he was very much a proponent of it. John had a very nice way of saying
it doesn't do enough, but yet saying we applaud him for trying, you know, because
he knew the constraints and he recognized the political arena that I was working
in. I, and Melissa is very much in favor of this and she can do, you know, whatever,
but it makes, it does make it harder in our caucus. And I think a lot of, a lot
of our caucus members are looking at this going, you know, we don't want to be
Illinois. We don't want to be Minnesota. We don't want to be. And I very much, we
have a very tight regulatory framework in here that I think works for all. And I
would like to see the medical come into play. You know, I see so many people, I'm
a cancer survivor. I know what it's like to use opioids and stuff like that. And
if there's a natural alternative to help people without the side effects, I just
don't understand. And it's not like you're still under a doctor's care. You still
need to be diagnosed. But
So one of the things that we heard from the district attorney and the sheriff's
office is that the levels of THC that exist in some of these pre package
products are way beyond what people are used to experiencing. And so they didn't
have any numbers behind this, but they said that there's an increased number of
people, middle aged people may have used marijuana in the past that are having
either psychotic episodes or other mental health problems connected to using
these extremely concentrated products. Is that a concern that when you don't
have a regulatory framework around it that you it may seem safer, but there's
still people that are haven't had that experience. So in all honesty, I think
Michigan did this all wrong. And I think they're very much catching up on the
regulatory side. So Michigan allows a ballot initiative. So it goes on the
ballot, you know, it goes on the ballot box. And so on November 5th, marijuana is
illegal in the state of Michigan. And on November 6th, it's legal. There's no
regulatory framework. There's no setup, nothing. And as I have talked to my
colleagues in states that where marijuana has become legal through the
ballot initiative, they've all struggled with this. And to say it's been a nightmare
is an accurate statement. We are going at it with a very strong regulatory
framework. And the packaging, the labeling, the testing, all of that is very
stringent and very controlled. And and I think that we will alleviate a lot of
that by doing it in this direction. The other thing I always want to encourage
right now, marijuana is coming into this state. Legally, people are crossing the
border and illegally. My largest concern with illegal is the not regulated. No
known amounts of THC. And then we can all, you know, we all know what's happening
in the fentanyl market. So to me, it makes more sense to put in a strong
regulatory framework. We have a strong regulatory framework with alcohol. Some
people like it. Some people hate it. But if we can have that regulatory framework,
have the processing, have the testing, know, you know, the levels of strength of
the THC. I think we win all day long on that. What would you what is your
advice to your constituents or people that live farther south that do travel
to Michigan to buy legal marijuana and then bring it back across the state?
Well, it's illegal. I don't think I need to say more than that. You know, I I
don't encourage illegal activity. But but we know it exists. Correct. I mean,
they're border setups with drive-throughs. We were up there. It's Wisconsin
license plate after Wisconsin license plate. I know. So there's there there's
the legal issue, but then there's also the reality. And what it would what's
your advice to law enforcement when it means I mean, what they told me is they
could pull over every third car and they know they're going to find a marijuana
product that prepackaged. I don't really have advice for them. I feel bad that
they're put in this position. I think they're in an untenable situation where
what what is the win here? I mean, they're there really is no win. And I think
law enforcement, sadly, they're they're they're dealing with molestation, sex
abuse. I mean, they just got their hands full across the board. So I feel very
bad for the position that they're put in and advice. I don't know. One of the
other things that they told us is that there's a gray market that exists in
Michigan where people are allowed to produce and grow their own marijuana.
Correct. And they said that some of that not through the dispensaries, but some of
that in the private kind of unknown market is being trafficked into
Wisconsin. And then he said the return trip is for fentanyl, heroin, and other
harder drugs are going north. And you know, so we do not allow the grow your own
aspect in medical marijuana. And we don't allow smoking. And that was, you
know, that was a couple of things that were very important to our two
caucuses. We can't control what's happening in Michigan. We can't control
Michigan law. But I do understand their concerns. I do very much understand
their concerns. One of the things we've heard from proponents of any form of
legalized marijuana, whether medicinal or recreational, is that when you legalize
it in some form, you can separate it from a criminal element. Correct. And then
maybe break that gateway drug element and the criminal operations. Do you still
believe that that's a valid argument? I think it has validity. I really do. I
all I do believe, you know, you have a black market in alcohol. You're always
going to have people that break the law, right? But I think our consumers and our
constituents by having a heavy regulated medical marijuana, it gives them some
confidence to know what they're purchasing is safe. They know what
they're getting. And I think that's the only way to go on this. Would this be
made a lot simpler if there was a federal solution or is it this simply not
realistic to think that Wisconsin should wait and see if there's a federal
solution? I think the I think the individual states, whether it's Wisconsin
or anyone needs to stop waiting on Washington. This country is built on
states rights and federalism. And I think we need to get back to that because we
see how dysfunctional it is in Washington. And whether it's health care,
whether it's medical marijuana, whether it's a lot of issues, I think we need to
just stop waiting on Washington. Trying to come up with any good examples of
other things where you can purchase them in one state and it is illegal to bring
back to another state. And the only other examples that to shame are always
able to come up with cradum, another drug. But are there really I mean I guess
way back when it was fireworks, but it doesn't it seems like marijuana is
almost in its own separate category of like there really isn't anything else
where you can legally purchase it. And then the minute you cross the border
with that product, it's illegal. So we we're at a crossroads right now. I mean,
I shouldn't say crossroads, but we're at a very interesting time. You know,
certain states have looked at legalizing this and then yet they're still kind
of breaking federal law when they do it. And states are pushing back on the
feds. Because again, Washington isn't acting. So I think this is one I think
you bring up a valid point. I don't know of many other things that you know, in
fact, I don't know of anything where it's legal in one state and illegal in the
next state. And I think these are just things that we're gonna, you know,
continuously work through as states. In terms of the progress we've been
talking about with your bills, you're hoping to introduce something in the next
month or so. Absolutely. Do you, so you're hoping to get hearings then at least
absolutely. Do you think that either bill could make it to a floor vote in
either chamber? Um, yeah, I do. I do. I do. The hardest thing. One of the
hardest things about this legislation is is the medical society does really not,
you know, doctors are very split in whether or not they want to be involved.
So we have to come up as a legislature with all the conditions where, you know,
medical marijuana can be utilized. So you would be diagnosed and then that would
entitle you. And there are so many very, very unique conditions out there to try
to put everything in statute is our challenge. And I know we're gonna miss
somebody. And I feel bad about that. But that's for follow up legislation or
whatever. Um, it's very few times when we get something like the magnitude of
this, like exactly right on the first time. And then, um, so this is, this is
going, it's a heavy lift this session. I'm not gonna say it's not. Um, but I'm
optimistic. I'm optimistic.
Politically speaking, it appears that if it made it to the floor with democratic
votes, it would seem to be something of a slam dunk and Governor Evers has
always already indicated at least some level of support. So it seems like the
final hurdle will be whether the speaker and the majority leader will be willing
to actually let it come to a vote. Is that fair political assessment?
You know what? And we have to convince our members that this is the right thing
to do. So it would have to get out of committee. I mean, there's, there's, there's
still some, there's hurdles. But I'm hoping we can, if we can't get it done
this session, I'm hoping we're, we're pounding everything out to get it done
next.
Is this a better political environment in terms of be sometimes the heat of
an upcoming election will impact what can come forward? Is there a right time
or, you know, if it doesn't pass this session, the next session may not be the
best environment?
I think that the political environment is what it is. Um, and, and I, and I just
want to stress this. So my colleagues that oppose us do not oppose us because
they hate people. Okay. They have serious concerns about, I mean, look at what's
happening with the border being open and the drugs flowing in. They're like,
why would we add to that right now? You know, we can't get a handle on who's
coming into our country. Um, you know, the Biden administration, we know the
illegal drugs and we know the fentanyl coming across that border. And we don't
shut it down, which just blows my mind. And we know Wisconsin 41 is a pipeline
into the UP. So they're like, Mary, why would we contribute to that and allow
more people the potential to be injured when we have a federal government and
a president that's just encouraging drugs coming into this country. So it's
not just cut and dry. There's a lot of back thought to go into that. Um, I'm
trying to help patients. You know, I know people who have had very debilitating
medical conditions, our veterans, the PTSD, um, Ms. And I have firsthand
knowledge of what opioids do to you as a side effect. So there's a lot to the
marijuana debate. But this bill is about people and helping people. And that's
where we're trying to get to. And I don't want to lose the focus of that. This
is about medical marijuana and helping people. You're dying of cancer. You can't
eat the pain. Why are we preventing it? Makes no sense to me or making them
travel hours to correct and then become a potential correct felon. Correct. I in
Escanaba Tuesday ran into a middle age woman and her somewhat elderly mother
who had traveled up from shawl asked if they were going to do anything else other
than go into the dispensary and they said, we might get lunch. But that was their
trip. Yes. And that's not uncommon from everything we've observed and seen. And
that's why I want to continue to work to make sure that if people need this
medically, they can get it and it's not illegal.
Anything else that you'd like to add? No, I think that's it. All right. Thank you
so much for your time. You bet. Appreciate it. We'll pack up