So I never think of it as East-West or close to the water because outside the
city of Marinette, the rest of Marinette County doesn't have, you know, bay
frontage or water lake frontage. Yeah, apparently it's like 60% already.
Yeah. Oh, we've had a couple when we were
training up in Niagara. It was 39 degrees that night. 38.
Winter's coming. I just came back from vacation, North Carolina, so it was a
little shock pumping. I was 102 where I was.
That's too much. Yeah, that's a that's quite a swing.
Alright, so I guess let's start. I guess either one of you or both you can take
this, but I'm curious to know what have you seen being a border county since
Michigan has legalized marijuana and especially specifically heavily
advertising the availability that throughout Wisconsin. And I'm gonna let
Pat really give some detail of that. I will say that it's just happened in the
last couple of months with dispensaries in Menominee. So we're still kind of
waiting to see how that's gonna play out. So it's hard to say with a lot of
certainty this is the effect that that is had. Now up in Niagara and Dickinson
County, Michigan is right across the river. So that's had dispensaries for much
longer. So I would just I guess preface it by saying here in Marinette we just
don't have a lot of time with dispensaries across the river yet. But
all that narcotics investigator Kallahan talk about what he's seen kind of
boots on the ground. You know the biggest impact would be from when
Dickinson or Iron Mountain started their dispensaries. They were kind of the
first border community that had the dispensaries up and running. And I mean we
saw a pretty significant noticeable uptick of kind of that southbound traffic.
You know residents from the Valley and Green Bay and Brown County kind of making
their way up during the week kind of outside hours of normal business travel
making up to the dispensaries. So you know that 141 corridor within the drug
unit kind of had the nickname of the green highway the green corridor just
because it was very well known for several years now since those
suspensions opened up that that was kind of the quickest access point for
legal weed for you know close to near a million people residents of Wisconsin.
And you know we were that access point. So we definitely see a lot more our
controversies a lot more of those kind of traffic stops and traffic stops that
turn into interdictions or or drug seizures just because you know the
difference in laws and whatnot. Is there I guess for each of your departments is
there a philosophical mandate on how to approach this or whether to handle it
differently today than it was or would be without legal weed right across the
floor. I think for for me as the district attorney in our office in
prosecuting crimes we have been dealing with drugs like methamphetamine heroin
now fentanyl and that's just ravaged our community for years probably more than
15 years we were really hit hard with heroin probably 2007 onward and so
that's really been a main focus of course large amounts of THC coming
south is also something that we look at and want to prosecute and enforce but if
it's a small amount I mean that's going to be treated small amount and I should
say THC that may be treated differently than methamphetamine or heroin. The other
thing too is we're trying different approaches so we have treatment drug
court for high-risk high-need drug offenders that are residents of Marinette
County we have a mental health court for those that have you know diagnosed
mental health condition again they have to be residents of Marinette County we
also just started a diversion program out of our office and that's that was
really targeted for people that are pretty new into the criminal justice
system and they have mostly drug related offenses trying to help them to avoid
a felony conviction so those are different approaches that we've had but
yes there is there's always been a triage approach there has to be in this line
of work and and so yes if it's a small amount of weed that may be treated
differently than a small amount of heroin because you're generally not
going to overdose on heroin at the same time it's still it's illegal in the
state of Wisconsin and we're seeing people bring large quantities south now
and that affects our populace it affects our young people and that's
something we take seriously. As far as the sheriff's office is there a philosophical
approach to how you target I mean if you don't if you know there's a green
highway you know where the dispensaries are you know the roads that they're
using. Yeah I mean you know we don't have I guess a department wide philosophy on
it it's officer and deputy discretion but again it kind of comes to that triage
approach you know our deputies are exposed to math and fentanyl and heroin
and and stuff that definitely has a much larger impact on the community and then
the individual user where you know THC or especially small amounts or what you
know you can determine as personal use marijuana definitely doesn't have as
significant of an impact so you know deputies have to take those same kind
of considerations because you know the legal process for us to build a case
that's prosecutable for our district attorney here is the same whether it's
THC or fentanyl heroin so you know how many hours you need to devote to those
cases with your evidence processing and evidence handling of report writing you
know THC versus versus versus fentanyl so it's kind of that triage approach I
think is the primary in everyone's kind of mine these days especially since
again since the dispensers really started up and running it's pretty
consistent that cars that are stopped have you know marijuana products especially
if they're you know traveling through the area not necessarily from the area
you just see that a lot do they get stopped for you know infractions wherever
that might be and then that that contact which should just be it you know a
simple traffic contact that now turns into a drug seizure which you know
requires a level of work so it's well this is THC there are other avenues we
can take whether that be like a non criminal ordinance citation or referral
or something like that that really saves us time and reduces the impact on not
only the sheriff's office other law enforcement agencies but then the
criminal justice system as a whole can you think of any other situation that's
comparable to where a product or an item or a thing is legal in one state
but not in the other and it can be taken with them I mean I there's comparisons
to abortion but that's not a thing that we're traveling across straight lines
with but is there anything else that's similar to this whereas this high
profile legal here not legal here and people are now breaking a law by bringing
something back well other than the example that you just gave I'll just
stick in the drum drug realm cratum which is also known as metraginine that is
not legal in the state of Wisconsin that is legal right across the the
bridge we've seen cases where people are high on metraginine and they run out in
the middle of traffic they're psychotic and and drive-throughs I mean we've
seen all kinds of things like that but that's another example of something
that's illegal in Wisconsin legal in Michigan it's just this one of those
phenomenons that we're having to deal with and one of the I think unique
features about our geography is the fact that we here in Marinette have the
only hospital for the Marinette Menominee area and we are seeing psychotic
episodes because of the high potency of THC especially in the edibles and when
I was talking to one of the one of the supervisors at the Department of Health
and Human Services she was telling me that psychotic episodes have really gone
up and people over 45 they just are not handling that high potency well and so
that is affected our hospital it's affected our law enforcement because
when they come into Wisconsin and they're high and then they get violent or
non-cooperative then our law enforcement have to go and deal with them
sometimes for hours at the hospital then if they which has happened attack
nurses or officers then they're taken to jail then our jail has to deal with
them and so that is something that is a very present reality for us now and
and that we've seen that with THC we've seen it with Kratum. As far as a law
enforcement approach when you make a traffic stop is do you ask if there are
any THC or any other drugs in the car is that a standard question if someone's
being pulled over for speeding or the tail light or the other I wouldn't say
that's a standard question it's going to be very specific to the individual
traffic stop what the reasoning was and some of the other factors that our
law enforcement are trained to look for so I wouldn't say that everybody is
automatically questioned if they're in Marinette County you have a TSC products
in your vehicle there definitely needs to be some reason to go beyond you know
that simple traffic violation to kind of go deeper into that so I know last
April there was a stop in which a large amount of THC products were then
displayed and it was put up on the Facebook page and there were a lot of
comments from them what was the the reaction within the sheriff's office or
the DA's office about the public feedback that came from displaying that as a
drug bust as opposed to fentanyl or meth or some of the others that everyone
exactly that is a drug bust well I think the primary feedback we had within the
sheriff's office was it probably wasn't clear clear to people that was one
traffic stop so all that product was one individual or one group of individuals
and and again the you know we haven't talked about that triaging mentality and
if it's personal use but not that these dispensers are open we are seeing
people that are utilizing them for the furtherance of personal gain and getting
into the distribution you know at least distribution over here in Wisconsin and
although you know I don't know the particulars of that particular case
outside of you know the feedback we got on Facebook and then like that just
based on my experience in our colleagues investigator and looking at that
quantity you know I would probably assume or make the assumption that there was
probably a financial gain for those individuals to to make the trip up to
Iron Mountain or wherever they went for that dispensary and and you know
purchased that much product you know especially given the time frame that it
was there was probably very good sales on it and they knew that you know you
can definitely make a profit on that so I mean as far as just dispensary impact
on law enforcement for us we see that a lot where it's not the personal use stuff
it's it's people facilitating you know the illicit drug trade through the
dispensaries or through kind of this gray area that operates in Michigan right
now with the grows where you can have personal grows for personal reasons and
there's just very unclear regulations right now in Michigan and what
they're allowed what an individual is allowed to grow how many plants and what
not so we see a lot of that especially in our products unit where we see them
facilitating kind of this truck-traffing organization or or the the
furtherance of a criminal enterprise and leveraging that that THC sale that
THC product so I think off the get-go that was kind of something that we were
like oh man I don't think people really realize that that's not everything that
we got I mean we had four or five other interdiction stops that day and that
was just one one traffic stop so you know there was a lot of feedback but you know
we revert to the District Attorney and and and the laws of the state of
Wisconsin and the laws of our community and what our community wants from us and
and you know as many negative comments there were there were positive comments
and and from what we can tell most positive comments are actually community members
here and not necessarily people who were get involved because it got spread out
to Reddit and some other social medias and whatnot in that case though there was
a civil forfeiture and of the loss of the items but there were no could you have
made a case that they were looking to sell and I I did not handle that case myself
so I can't speak to the particulars on that I know there were a lot of a lot of
items we have to just look at what evidence that we have in making a
charging decision and I think it is important yes my office we are charged
with enforcing the laws marijuana is against the law in the state of
Wisconsin in any form so there is charging discretion
that's left with our office and again like I said we do have various I guess
tools that we could use whether it's drug court whether it's diversion
or sometimes a forfeiture I I do believe that that was treated as a
as a county ordinance I don't remember all the particulars
of that so I couldn't speak with any authority as to
the reason I didn't handle that case what would you like to see from
lawmakers in Wisconsin on this do you think that they need to be involved
since we have I mean obviously you're dealing with Michigan here
but Minnesota and Illinois were surrounded except for Iowa with
legal marijuana there is a debate happening at the Capitol about whether
to move to a medicinal platform or full legalization do you have
feedback for your legislators and what would make your life easier
for I mean for a law enforcement perspective I think
the one thing that probably takes at the most of our time
is just regular patrol not necessarily the drug unit but just the impact
on just the potency level I mean like the district attorney
already mentioned you know we see a significant uptick in kind of
mental health crisis issues and when we deal with those although
you know we're obviously not doctors or one I you know part of our job is to kind
of get a little bit of background on the individual and
you know we see a lot where they have no real diagnosis or no real history of
mental health but now all of a sudden they become you know
people that we're dealing with quite often and if they are in crisis obviously
we have steps that we have to take to ensure their safety
and you know unfortunately because of how rural we are we have one hospital
that that is available to us for like med clearance purposes and stuff like
that and then you know typically as far as you know
getting outpatient mental health or inpatient mental health that that happens
elsewhere in the state and then we're tied up with
you know those individuals on transporting and caring for them and making sure
that they are getting the care that they need so
you know there's a huge impact there just from the high potency
and then the second big impact that we see a lot
is just like the juvenile impact you know our northern school districts
penned by Niagara the guys that were really close to Dickinson I mean
the THC products the vapes the edibles the gummies
they're so prevalent in our schools now and and especially at like very
young ages like it's not uncommon for us now in law enforcement to come in
contact with families be called there for a call for service
typically related some sort of disturbance or out of control
juvenile and then learn that this individual is a pretty heavy THC
user at the age of 13 or 14 and then just the impacts on them
long-term and you know how they're going to integrate with society I
mean if I have one caution to lawmakers it would it would be to really
look at these things you know there's kind of being the last of the party
here's a benefit to us because we have data now that we can look at from
other states and how how it's happened to them and
and obviously you know there's two sides of every story and I'm sure
I'm sure someone else who's much more
informed on this who probably has a PhD or a doctor can say well no that's not
accurate but just from you know boots on the ground perspective I
definitely feel like the impact on just this potency
is significant and then you know if we were to go to
a full legalization have some sort of regulation on
kind of the off the book grows because obviously we're talking about
dispensaries right now but from there are products you know
standpoint right we have more issues with
these kind of great area grow operations that aren't necessarily tied to
dispensaries but are still legal or semi-legal in Michigan
and then how they further like DTOs and and you know selling
high-grade Michigan marijuana down in Milwaukee and Chicago and then
bringing back fentanyl meth and heroin to our community I mean
I don't know that there's a way to legalize marijuana and
not further you know kind of the illicit trade at the same time but
that's something that needs to be taken in consideration how we can control both
of those because we definitely see an impact from that you know
getting into any type of large-scale narcotics trafficking requires capital
you know still as that seems the issue is marijuana sale THC sale is very
cash heavy business you know we have issues with
you know banking systems and whatnot so there there are unfortunately
individuals who leverage that ability to then
further you know their trades in in narcotics that have a much higher
return on investment for lack of better term that definitely
significantly impacts our communities and I think one thing I really want
them to consider is the impact on on adolescents
because there's lots of studies I just read something in the New York Times
from 2022 where they're talking about the adverse effects of
hypotency THC on the developing adolescent brain
and it and it does have long-term effects increase in psychosis
depression lots of adverse effects and
like narcotics and best data can I almost see it was saying
we're seeing that in our schools but the other thing that I've seen
and I've been up here 20 years both as a defense attorney
and as a prosecutor when you are dealing with people that have gotten into
methamphetamine heroin they generally always start
with marijuana and it's just a very sad trend
so if the legislature is looking at this and wanting to promote the
good here in Wisconsin which I believe that they do
they need to look at laws that are going to protect our young people
and also to send a very clear message to to people in the state but also to
law enforcement to give us bright lines on how to enforce this how to
how to eliminate any type of like black market
activity that that narcotics investigator Kalehan was talking about
clarity is is important but also looking at the long-term effects on our young
people what's what you just said is really fascinating
because a lot of the arguments in favor of legalization
have to do with eliminating ties to stronger drug markets that if you
make it legal and accessible and through a
proper channel then no one has to go to a drug dealer that might try and
upgrade sell them on something else but the fact that that still existing is
just as potent and also the idea that the other argument is well if you
create an industry then the potency of THC is much more
closely managed you're less likely to have someone that doesn't know what
they're selling you or what's in their own content
and what I'm hearing for both of you is that that's not true at all those
problems have not been solved at least in this
situation of separating it from harder drugs or making sure that people know
exactly what they're just yeah I mean I I think on the commercial side
packaging and whatnot you know obviously it's not FDA control but it
uses the similar kind of similar kind of
information when you buy a product that tells you the potency but that
you know that's for the conscious user if you will but you know there's also
kind of this trend on how strong can we make our product or what can we do to
make this the strongest possible most pure form of THC
you know you can you can get I mean you look at
some of the DA statistics you know that your standard THC
was 4% delta 9 which is the the active ingredient
and then you look at you know current trends on some of the edibles and gummies
you know we can go over to Michigan to loom right now and I can find 98.7%
pure THC delta 9 on the shelf so you know there's been no studies on
what is 98.7% of the active ingredient
you know due to an individual versus you know 4% I think there's a little bit
disconnect especially with with lawmakers and those who
maybe you know tried or used marijuana especially
flour right we don't see a lot of flour anymore
you know even on traffic stops and whatnot most of our most of our seizures are
THC vape oils dab you know edibles and stuff that have a much
markedly higher concentration of of delta 9
then you know then the flour product does and and that's on purpose it's
advertised that way and that's that's kind of the
the you know the marketing for it in those dispensaries so
you know I I agree to some extent that having a
dispensary where they clearly label that is beneficial but we also have to
be honest with the fact that everyone's always chasing the stronger stuff
you know and and and those are the products that we see more
than anything is that there's the high concentration THC products are the
ones that if you're going to spend 30 dollars for
for option A or option B and option B is stronger well
I'm going with option B especially you know I don't know I couldn't tell you
for a fact because it's illicit and and well if I
or not but I would argue that in Michigan where it's not illegal
you know the users that we interact with there
are always getting the the more potent uh potent product
that's really fascinating so as far as the
is it possible to prosecute someone for distributing or selling
I mean if they are purchasing larger modes or they're purchasing from
some of the gray area situations where you're talking about and bringing that
back here is it the same laws in the book will apply to them when it
comes to distribution right you look at the same factors
for intent to deliver as you would for any other drug
I mean and again that's you have that's based on the evidence that you have in
your case um that could be quantity that certainly is
one factor statements that they make about where they were going with this
what they were doing with it um statements of other people that are
with them obviously um phone records that there are
lots of things that you can you can use as evidence to show
intent to deliver so yes that's evaluated just like you would
if it were you know um thuntinol or um heroin
again the same factors so part of the the debate that exists
surrounding the legalization of everyone it has to do with
there's like the the dispensaries are all promoting a wellness thing
that's what everyone of them that I've talked to have said is it's all about
you know the individual and their health and wellness journey
and then there's a component of social justice that the number of
specifically in southern wisconsin the number of uh
black and brown people that have been incarcerated do the
connection to the drug trade and then there's a financial aspect that
talks about we should tax it and then we can take the money from it and then
there's a law enforcement component that has to do with
these are the laws how do we balance that or how would you
how would you want the the lawmakers and the public who are
pressuring the lawmakers on either side to balance all those different
components of this one debate well it's interesting that you brought up
the social justice aspect because um Colorado which has had
legal weed since 2013 they did kind of a study to see how they were doing
and one of the things that it showed was they still had a
disproportionately high arrest rate for african-americans
so that didn't change that um which was interesting to me I would not have
thought that um but again they were trying to evaluate
where the state was um in doing that so um I would just say again um
when lawmakers are making policy they need to look at what's best for the
citizens of the state of Wisconsin um there could be you know other
alternatives that they're looking for for use of uh
CBD or other things like that um that may have
many more medicinal purposes um that's certainly something that they
should look at study consider um from my
perspective as a prosecutor um what we're seeing with this hypotency uh THC
is really not doing a lot of people a lot of good
um it's certainly not helping them be more productive
or law abiding um or more present for their families
um and unfortunately you know we still see the trend of
them using THC and then going to other to other um more nefarious
drugs so again I think all of that needs to be considered
by by the legislature and again especially the adolescent effects that's
really where my heart is because we just are losing so many of our
young people um to just wasted years of their lives
through this so I understand the arguments of the dispensary
you know yes that you know you have uh more
idea of what you're getting I understand that that's certainly true
at the same time it hasn't done away with other illegal grows and right now
we're seeing fentanyl pop up in just about
everything even marijuana so there's still a risk out there
and unfortunately people are overdosing on a pretty regular basis not necessarily
from marijuana uh with fentanyl on it but
that has been seen and it is a danger that we're becoming more and more aware of
so there are a lot of there are a lot of risks
um and so that just needs to be carefully considered
as far as your perspective from law enforcement
how do you how should everyone balance
obviously they're gonna look at you and say well you're biased you're
sure but do you think that those all are
equal or there's some that need to be looked at as a little more
important you know I I understand that you know
the growth or I'm sorry the dispensaries like they have they have an opinion of
wellness and health and um that's just not been my experience on
on the customer base that I come in contact with right this is a
recreation uh usage kind of scenario you know I'm
I'm not saying that there aren't you know potentially people that can
can benefit from some sort of uh THC but again
uh have they um you know research other alternatives
or some of the CBD alternatives or some of you know the kind of the pharmaceutical
uh um THC products that exist or is this kind of a
recreational type of usage for them so you know from that perspective I
get that they have you know they have to take a stance on it I don't know if I
agree with it a hundred percent for my personal experience
um and then as far as everything else goes you know
at the end of the day it it's gonna impact us you know one way or the other
um and you know right now with it uh with it being
illegal in Wisconsin you know we do have a a little bit of
law enforcement and criminal justice control uh that we can influence you
know certain individuals and again um especially when you talk
about uh younger individuals who are exposed to criminal justice
system like now we have the diversion program
and and and drug court and stuff so so we have
outlooks for for them but you know it as cliche as it is
um you know that mentality from you know the Reagan era of it's a gateway drug
uh you know I have yet to come across you know a methamphetamine user or
heroin user who doesn't use THC or hasn't admitted to me that they
started by smoking weed when they were a teenager
you know I don't know if you can ever prove you know cause and effect but
there's definitely it seems to be at least in my experience correlation to
that so um you know one way or another is going to
impact us right right now we we have a little bit of
ability to control it but if you know lawmakers make
decisions to go the other way my only my only I guess
hope is that again they they look at the big picture the impact
and and how we're going to control this right how we're going to keep uh
preventing youth from having access to it which right now
you know even though it's illegal in in Wisconsin right we have school districts
within our county because of their proximity uh you know they're able to
get it very easily right you know if if if we deploy
our canines up to one of the schools I can almost guarantee you that
the kn officer would locate a tsc product in that school
um so and I'm sure that's just with again being surrounded by other states
that are legalized and whatnot and just kind of how
in general the the population of culture has kind of
mentally started to decriminalize this I mean we're definitely seeing a huge
influx in in uh adolescent usage or adolescents being able to
to obtain it you know we uh you know interestingly enough
they changed the regulations for tobacco products to being 21 to purchase
and I believe you have to be 21 to buy tsc products in Michigan but it just
seems to be you know equally as accessible whether you're getting a
vape pen from a gas station or or a vape pen from a dispensary
uh you know I wish there's a way to control that because there is a
significant impact again because of the potency
uh so I would definitely weigh that very heavily in any decision making
uh so yeah is it fair to compare any of this to alcohol
I mean you brought it nicotine and I'm glad you did because that is something
that you know I think it's even less common today for kids to start
a number of kids smoking versus when we were all young
but people will say well alcohol can do just as much damage
it's just as prevalent it's just as accessible for kids
so is there a comparison between the accessibility of alcohol and
danger and the damage that alcohol does versus marijuana?
I mean I think it's fair to say that those are you know those are equally
you know similar issues you know but culturally alcohol has been
part of our culture you know we tried once didn't work out very well for us
uh you know with prohibition but uh yeah I just think about
the years uh that it's taken to get us where we're at you know with
mothers against drug driving and just you know the education
related to that where you look at you know drug driving statistics of
you know the 70s 80s and 90s and just you know kind of the
the fatality rates related to that um you know I
I guess you know I would say that yeah they're you know they're comparable
in their effects on society and and you will never find a law enforcement
officer that says that oh yeah like alcohol does not make up
80% of our job is you know if there's alcohol involved in some way you know
when we're taking calls for service a lot a lot of times
alcohol is a is a primary factor right you know I don't know if it's
exactly 80% but you know you kind of understand where I'm coming from so
you know there's definitely a social impact and I'll call usage you know the
issue is or the reality is is that it's part of our society and it's kind of
one of those you know marijuana lobby will always
leverage that against us but I don't think anybody will
who's involved in criminal justice or you know
kind of social impact will serve a way I will call doesn't have a huge impact
on on society and its effects and what not
and generally it's the abuse of alcohol that you know that we're dealing with
um you know there are people that can be very responsible with it
um and I think to contrast a little bit with the THC
um I don't think we've seen like the market
increased in potency I mean yes certainly distilleries have done
um probably more in the last um few years to try to make you know some
some strong spirits but at the same time from
like 1995 when it was about 4% THC content to now when it's
98 that's just a market increase in the last
28 years and so we're just not dealing with apples and oranges
because when you've used them responsibly alcohol can be
fine for people um but when you're talking about
these edibles or other things even a little bit can
cause perfectly normal healthy people to act in ways that they never
would have otherwise so I think that's an important distinction
do you that's that's an interesting line because I can hear
Melissa Eggard in my over my shoulder I've had an interview with her on Friday
and she might know she's leading the push for full
legalization and she would the statement that
there can be responsible use of alcohol and then there is obviously abuse
and then she would argue that it's the same exact
probably similar statistics for the responsible use of marijuana
and then abuse or those that quote unquote can't handle their marijuana
saying this people can't handle alcohol
do we have any way of knowing if those are comparable
or is it simply because we've won we've got
societal trends and standards we've studied for hundreds of years on alcohol
versus marijuana it's largely been illegal and where it's been legal we
don't have that as much data to know if those are
just similar proportionally and I think that's probably right I
mean we we don't have a lot of studies on that
at this point um but certainly just anecdotally
um there are certainly accounts of people that had no idea
um of the potency of a product that they were getting and all of a sudden
they're just basically on the floor or you know
going around acting in a manner that's just completely out of control
um and that was not what that was not what was anticipated
um so they just simply had no idea the potency of the product that they were
getting so yes I'm sure time um will give us more
data and um examples uh but those anecdotal accounts I think
do differentiate somewhat between marijuana and alcohol
anything else either one of you wants to add along these lines that I might
have missed or sum it up no I don't have anything else to
you know clearly yeah no clearly this is a subject
that um a lot of people are interested in a lot of people are passionate about
I understand that we can only speak from what we
see and what we deal with um as a law enforcement community
um and this is what we're seeing um and I know that the the men and women in
Madison want to do the right thing for the state of Wisconsin
we would just urge them to consider these facts that that we are dealing
with. Can I get you each to say in spell your name give your title
just so I have a correct on tape? Patrick Calan C-A-L-L-A-H-A-N
Narcotics Investigator for Marijuana County Sheriff's Office.
Deshais spelled D-E capital S-H-E-A, Maro M-O-R-R-O-W
District Attorney for Marinette County. Thank you both so very much I really
appreciate it um can we get a little bit of
b-roll of maybe you guys chatting y'all in the office.
Sure. Sure. It's awkward but otherwise you have to
shut up you guys sitting down there.