Where's that? Okay. All right. Can you just talk to me? Yeah, absolutely
So I guess let's start with give me the Sierra Club's overall perspective on mine
Because I'm sure there's some people like oh you're opposed to all mining from from the start
So it's just that's your only point of view. Yeah, no, it's it's important to note that the Sierra Club
You know both at the state level and at the national level, you know, we're not an anti-mining organization
You know, we recognize that modern society
You know has a certain demand for metals
You know our perspective though when we look at potential mining development in Wisconsin is that the
Environment here is especially water rich and that makes it, you know, really almost incompatible with, you know, modern mining
Especially metallic sulfide mining where the mining itself takes place in a water rich environment
the wastes have to be impounded safely forever in a water rich environment and
That you know carries risks that are, you know, are that we don't see in other
Parts of the u.s. Canada and across the globe
So when you hear some of the people
That talk about oh, we've got a minor on the flag. It's part of our history like that. That's part of our culture
Well, how do you respond to that? Sure, you know, it's
You know fundamentally mining a century century half ago
Was much much smaller in scale the potential risks and the amount of damage that was caused
Was very limited and so yes, there's a heritage there that you know, it's I don't have any problem embracing that
You know, we're the Badger state and that comes from you know that historical mining
But it does not compare to the industrial scale mining
That is being proposed, you know, here in the state
So walk me through I guess some of the evolution of the last half century in terms of mining proposals
These obviously there were some mines that got up and some of them were close and then we had a
Moratorium and then since then now there's been a lot more exploratory drilling going on
How much has the industry changed and you know the the facts on the ground changed sure so?
Say in the last 50 years. There was a huge exploration boom
major oil companies major mining companies with deep deep pockets
Spent millions and millions on exploration in northern, Wisconsin beginning in the
1970s through probably the early 1990s about the time that the prove at first law was passed in
1991
They really weren't very successful
You know some of it is the you know a big part of it is the geology of the state itself
There are some scattered deposits that have been identified
But they all struck out basically
So, you know, we have the flamboyant which was the one and only mine developed under the former
Legislative and legal regime
You know things have since changed, but that was a very small mine. It was sort of a unicorn in a way
It was very rich and very small
In fact, it was so rich that they were able to ship their ore directly to Canada for processing
So they didn't leave the wastes behind that would be you know a more normal sort of operational
aspect of modern mining
The Kranan deposit was discovered in the 1970s attempts to permit it took place over about 20 years
Ultimately it failed
Largely because of the deep opposition in the state but also on the fact that they couldn't engineer the project to be safe
Safe enough to meet the regulations and protections at the time
There is you know a couple other deposits that have been identified one up in an Oneida County
And then of course the band deposit which Greenlight Metals now is doing exploration on
In the National Forest in Taylor County
But you know the the history of mining up to this point is largely that
Millions and millions of dollars have been spent by companies with very deep pockets
Really only to discover a handful of potentially economic deposits
Everything else that's been identified is simply not economic. It's too small too low-grade to ever get developed
At least you know to date
The the change of course that's happened is that the prove-it-first law was repealed back in 2017. That was a major
Goal of the mining industry as a whole and now we have Greenlight Metals
Which is the first company to come back and sort of try to stake a claim
In as many proposals as possible or as many deposits as possible
With a whole you know with the hope of kind of I think squeezing out any potential competition
In the state and you know, that's where we're at now and in 2025 going into 2022
2026 so when people say oh well the
Technology around mining has changed so like your grandfather's mine and like the the safety aspects that really were legitimate back in the 80s and 90s
Are no longer applicable the way we can do mining today is so much different so much safer
How do you respond to when they were making those claims? Yeah, that's largely mining industry happy talk
Because the the actual process of mining the extraction of the ore itself how you process it how you deal with the waste materials
Really has is largely unchanged in the last 50 years
What has changed
Technologically for the mining industry is the increasing use of automation
Robotics artificial intelligence
all of which
Have been a focus of the industry to reduce its labor force
You know and certainly make things somewhat safer, but the overall, you know technology behind
metallic mining and metallic, you know metal processing is largely unchanged
That's you know, there are no innovations no serious innovations that make it a safer industry
so when people nowadays think of mining they may think of coal mining or like back if they know anything about Wisconsin history and like
You know Southwest Wisconsin. What is the difference between that and the sulfide metallic mining?
Yeah, sure. Well, the you know the historic sort of badger mining if you will in Southwest Wisconsin. These were
largely
Relatively shallow there a number of them were underground mines
There were very few open pit mines just because
Because of the nature of the geology they were chasing veins if you will of
Of the minerals leaden zinc largely and they were very small scale
You know it the deeper you go the more difficult it gets you have to dewater
The groundwater and deal with the wastewater
So that you know they were very you know relatively small operations
So you know fast forward to to to today
What we're seeing now are companies going back after deposits that were previously uneconomic
They're smaller or even if they're larger they're low grade because the high grade or it was largely
harvested a long time ago
and so what
naturally happens is that
By chasing those deposits that were previously uneconomic that are low grade
And maybe high quantity is that you're actually
increasing the amount of wastes that you produce and you know mining
companies largely are
our waste handlers more than they are miners
They're they're in the mining waste disposal business because the vast bulk of the material that they that they extract is not
economic or its waste material that has to be dealt with
perpetually
To maintain its safety and avoid risk to the environment
So walk me through that the safety issues
What is it that they're bringing up and separating that process that makes that waste so dangerous?
Yeah, well, let's let's look at Bend
Which is Greenlight Metals only
Project their flagship project currently
That they're attempting to develop in Taylor County on the National Forest
So it's a very again. It's a it's this is the fourth company
Along with various partners over the years since 1986 when the deposit was discovered to go after bed
Up until now the the the prior companies have failed to develop it or you know opted not to develop Bend
Because it wasn't considered economic
And the reason for that are twofold one is one is that it's a metallic sulfide
Deposit and so the vast majority of the waste materials are metallic sulfides
And the sulfides when exposed to air and water produce acid and the acid in turn leeches heavy metals
From the waste material. So imagine a finely ground up almost powdery
Waste material that's a that's left over from the processing to skim off the metals in the first place
and you have
This acid producing material
That is chock full of nasty
toxics
That if you know they get into groundwater or surface waters or wetlands
Are absolutely polluting
And damaging to the environment. So this includes lead mercury
arsenic
and then processed wastes such as that
For example cyanide has been proposed it to process the band or in part to increase the amount of gold
That they can retrieve from from the mining
But the overall deposit of Bend is under 2% copper
meaning 98% of the material that comes out is waste and it's an even much much smaller amount of gold and silver of
Precious metals that are there and the process
You know to get the metals out in the first place is also not 100%
efficient
Point being is that you know, they believe they can get efficiency
Up to maybe 90% of the copper
10% of that copper that comes out of the ground goes out in fine tailings, which is also a toxic material
Especially to aquatic wildlife
So that material needs to be safely handled isolated from groundwater from surface waters
You know, essentially forever
And the result is you've got habitat loss
You've got you can't grow anything on top of a tailing stuff once it's closed
You've got habitat loss habitat fragmentation. This is all
Aftermining but during mining you have a highly industrial activity
on the National Forest
If we're talking about the Bend deposit
Where you have virtually a 24-7 operation. It's loud. It's noisy. It's dirty
It requires a
Fair amount of clear cutting of the site up to 200 acres in the most recent full mining proposal at Bend and
You know a waste dump that would be up to a hundred acres of permanent
Habitat loss there and then you know again a basically dropping a factory into the middle of a national forest
You know, they're just going to require new utility lines new roads truck traffic possibly rail
Into the site where it doesn't currently exist
So, you know, I think it's a fundamentally incompatible land use
to have on our national forest to
extract a
You know a resource that
Can't be renewed, you know, unlike
Timber unlike logging
You know our national forests are working forests and that's certainly, you know, something that we you know, we understand and
We don't always embrace it because you know timber harvest can be damaging as well
But at least it's a renewable resource, you know, unlike the you know a metallic deposit
That once it's gone it can't be renewed
It should how much longer is this gonna go a little bit? Yeah, we're