Thank you again for this conversation today and this will be probably two separate stories
but they'll be overlapping information I'm sure for both. We want to start with the Wisconsin
Tribal Education story but so much has happened in the United States. It's impacting Indian
country. It's impacting the whole chunk people right here in Wisconsin and I want to start
with about a week ago your Facebook post in response to President Trump's executive orders.
Tell me what was it about his orders that made you want to send such a strong impact statement.
Thank you. I really enjoy life. I really enjoy peace. I enjoy a society that is
feels comfortable to evolve with the changes that we need to keep going and to have such abrupt
policies that I don't believe were very well thought out and vetted to have such adverse impacts and to
collectively look at those policy changes and realize that the targets of a lot of the new
administration's policies focus on people of color, women, disadvantaged individuals and communities
and people just trying to get by in life as it is. I also felt like poor people aren't the reason
why we are where we are as a society. Gay people aren't the reason why we are where we are. We
have a lot of economic struggles where there just isn't enough finances circulating around in the United
States to keep the cost of health care down, the cost of housing down, the cost of prescription
drug care or elder care and we have to look at where the problem lies in a capitalist world where it is
you know leave the week behind. We find out that the week really is 98% of the American population.
We aren't holding on to the wealth. We aren't holding on to the stock of revenue that should be circulated out
there. The targets of a lot of these executive orders are small programs. They are very small but also very
impactful for our community to ignite such fewer against our own people to turn the guns in on our own
communities and say that this is a DEI initiative and it is a waste of money or and not explain that
diversity equity inclusion includes making accommodations for disabled individuals, for elders, for women, for perhaps
children without parents is to basically disregard the people that struggle in our society and they're among
everyone. It doesn't matter what color skin they have and so this administration at the whole
chugging nation at least this one focuses on not just getting ahead but who's behind because we can
only move as fast as those that we want and and we have to go back no matter how much we think we're
propelling ourselves personally or professionally we have to go back to the back of the line to help
our community members. If you can't see yourself doing that you don't have a place in public service.
I've always wanted to believe that only to realize that the narrative overall at least in the national
political spectrum has changed. So there was a lot of thoughts going down. I know that a lot of people would
like to think there was public relations officers and communications officers and the lawyers around me
but I was literally writing something on my phone spilling coffee on my coffee table laying back and
hitting sand and just taking a little break and I didn't realize just me speaking to my family out
there in the whole chugging nation was going to have such deep impact with other tribal individuals
and have them looking at their own leadership and saying where's our statement? Why aren't you mad?
Why is everything that's coming out of your social media softly worded and where when are we going
to see our nation stand up for us? The intent wasn't to strike any fear, make any attacks. I focus on the
policies and the impacts of the policies and I let folks know that unlike a lot of people that are
going to stick their heads in the sand, run for cover and wait for things to blow over, we have a
responsibility to protect our people just like President Trump does to protect Americans. So I'm not
going to I'm not going to sway from that. So I think that that's after that went out I not only
did not have any regrets there was probably a lot more I wanted to throw in there but I didn't.
The impact was there and since you're post we have seen other tribes leaders and tribal leaders make
other make statements make that impact statement. Do you think by you coming forward so quickly and
stating how you feel on behalf of your of the nation of whole chunk nation that there could be
more collaboration between the nations at this really crucial time? I do and there is we have a
lot of national and statewide organizations that have aligned on messaging which is really important
right now oftentimes in American Indian societies and in government we spend a great deal of time
justifying our history of where we were and our impact to our social world and our economic world.
It's an unfortunate but necessary task of any tribal leader to be able to provide the history,
the culture and the education because a lot of folks that they work with may not have that with
them and so when we develop some alignment with these organizations and some cohesive messaging
that we need to send home you know it's our hope that our collective voice has an impact and is
meaningful because the people that serve us as leaders have a responsibility to us too and with
a population of less than three percent of America we have to have not only a loud voice but we have
to have a very strategic voice to make sure that we're being heard by the right people and we're
not just walking into a room and having people nod their heads. We just like the old days back in
the 70s when we were when we were really doing a lot of the strong advocacy in Indian country
my grandparents would not come home without a pound of flesh in their hand we can't have
meetings where we just sit and agree in the room and nothing happens they they expected results
for that reason we expect results. With Trump's executive orders that were coming out quite quickly
and in largely last week when we speak of DEI diversity equity inclusion and I read them and I
read what on his website whitehouse.gov what pertained to the Native community and Native nations
are Native nations considered DEI. Native nations are not considered as DEI by Native nations
and a lot of other organizations and leaders within the state and the United States.
This administration would like to make a simple classification of Native American Indigenous
people and their history as a DEI initiative but it's not and you know I think we have hundreds of
years of case law, of Supreme Court decisions, of congressional law, of treaty law, of consultation
agreements and shared co stewardship agreements that very much verify that we are a governing entity
a sovereign entity of the United States federal government and we've progressed and advanced so far
as a result of that. It doesn't mean we've been holding hands in the sunset every night but it
does mean that we will take the time and work with our members of Congress regardless of whatever
they pull at the polling stations and come up with solutions that benefit both tribal
communities and non-tribal communities and sometimes they're just more than the same.
So to place that as DEI really has to be visualized as how strong is that ink in the president's pen
to erase hundreds of years of history of shared governance between the United States, the states,
the counties, the municipals, and the agencies with Indigenous people. I don't think it holds the
power that one may think it would. With presidential administration change either four years or eight
years, how often do you see that impact a whole chunk nation and even native nation with a new
presidential administration? There's always going to be impacts oftentimes even if we are going from
the same party to the to a new party. You're going to have changes in leadership and with those
changes in leadership you're going to have changes in perspectives sometimes for the better,
sometimes not. And so we do brace for a change even if a party who is very friendly with Indian
country is replaced by a party who's very friendly with Indian country. The leadership can change
and so one of the things I really admire and respect about Indian country and their governing
bodies is we have been made to adapt politically because we have historically had that gift of
adaptation whether it was through seasonal changes, whether it was through crisis, whether it was
through integration. Social groups and Indigenous communities were equipped to adapt because we
have to adapt. So politically is one of the things I'm very proud of the whole chunk nation to be
able to do because we are not only adapting to some of the national policies but we also have to
adapt to some of our more regional and statewide areas. Whole chunk nation more so because we do
not have a contiguous land base. We're located across several counties throughout the state of
Wisconsin and beyond. You know we have approximately 7,500 tribal members and over 2,000 of those
members live outside of the state. So oftentimes we do have to understand that the dynamics could
change depending on the states that our tribal constituents live in. So again we have a unique
form of adaptation and I would actually convey that our whole chunk nation government is probably
one of the most sophisticated governments that I have ever seen in my years of service with the
nation working with the federal, state and local governments. And you saw people make comments to
that. You know you filter through and you read through and they're like well why isn't my nation
doing this or how come we don't operate in that way. So I want to ask you within that time of last
week I think until the previous month recent Monday those executive orders there was a federal
freeze by a federal judge did step in and put a freeze. If those executive orders did go through
how would that impact the whole chunk nation? A long time ago as a result of our treaty negotiations
back in the you know 1800s when I was just a young boy. You know we we had
given away a lot but there were some things that were retained and one of those things that were
retained was the federal government's treaty and trust responsibility to Indigenous peoples
so that they could at least move on and evolve to develop self-governance and self-determination
so that tribes could maintain the ability to provide the health safety and welfare of all of their
communities. In doing so the federal government's responsibility was to make sure that we had the
means and ability to do so. So comes the Indian Health Services Department of Labor
all these other services that are were once able to sustain the needs in Indian communities.
It wasn't quick before the funding for all these programs wasn't sufficient to meet all of the
needs of the tribal members and eventually as we start evolving into you know the 20th century
we develop gaming as a revenue source and a primary revenue source. There were other retail
revenue sources as well and dollars generated from Indian gaming or other economic development
were starting to be relocated to assist in making sure that the federal funds could still meet
their treaty and trust responsibility which basically meant that we were now subsidizing
the federal grants that were taking care of our our families. Now we in a lot of these grants
cover more than 50 percent of them with our own revenue sources and which would beg the question
is is or has the federal government kept their end of the deal? I don't believe they have.
I believe we have a long way to go and that is something that we come to work with every single
day to make sure that we have a progressive and a changing government so that we can maintain
those things that we ensure to our people. We are doing the federal government's work
and to have executive orders pull the carpet right out from under us when we're already doing
more than half of the work for them providing those services developing unique service models
for tribal and inter-tribal communities is is a real slap in the face and it has to be said that
way to do so so abruptly breaks some covenants that are out there and I'll explain that when we apply
for a grant and we'll just leave this for federal grants we are given a notice of funding available
or funding opportunity we may provide a letter of intent and we may get a resolution of support
from our governing body within these grants no matter what it is let's just say it's
child's safety belts you know or or car seat safety we we provide the schematics of how we're
going to implement that grant within our unique communities the federal government looks at our
plan approves it sends us an award notification if we accept the word we are bound to the plan
that we said set out to the federal government and that's what the government says if you do this
we'll do this so we did this and the government said no we changed our mind because someone
doesn't like something in your program now in a it this is not a very sexy process by any means
it's it's grants it's pretty bureaucratic so in my world when there are priority shifts within
grant management that the granting agency would send a notice to the grantees to let them know
that some provisions of this grant are going to be changing giving every implementing agency
an opportunity to evolve or contour some of the policies or some of the deliverables that they
are entitled to that is a plan document amendment same thing goes for the grantee side if there's
something that's changes significantly at the receiving end of a grant we can amend our plan
document and get it approved this is basically the agreement the covenant that we have with the
federal government to pull that out without any review at all is to jeopardize the health
safety and welfare of those people that we have a covenant with as well this is not just our promise
to our people it is the federal government's promise to our people we we depend on our elected
representatives in the federal government to make those resources available and they do so we have a
have a metaphor that goes around that says oh it would take an act of congress
every single one of these grants took an act of congress so if you are representing a state
as a senator or as a member of the house of representatives and you go out and you do your
job you do the legwork you have your town halls and you provide infrastructure funding as you said
you did and all of a sudden the new boss comes in and says we're not going to allow that funding
to go out then why do you even exist as a representative? Congress has a responsibility to make sure
that their priorities are administered by the president by the White House through the processes
through the office of management and budget and when that provision gets cut off that ability
gets cut off then I do believe that there's a dysfunction in the government that now rest
as a congressional responsibility to clarify so he rescinded the the federal freeze what do you
think is going to happen in the near future? I believe that the president did what the kids
call a flex he exercised an authority to let folks know that he does have omnipotent control over
the funding of America and I do believe he will maintain his position of opposition on any DEI
which means that we what I believe will happen is they're going to take a little more of a surgical
look at funding that is going out to states and other agencies or being re-granted to make sure
that any funding that looks like it is not in line with the president's priorities and his
positions against DEI or anything else is going to be on the chopping block and so at the same time
I do believe that a system a good system in place has controls in it and we've seen those
controls demonstrated by the injunctions of the pause on the grant funding and processing and then
later on the restraining order even though the letter was rescinded some of the adjudicatory
processes are going forward to make sure that some of those funding priorities can be carried out
how can it be communicated or is there a need for re-education for those on the federal level
if we're saying that Indian country is not a DEI initiative how is that communicated
to the president and the powers that be at that federal level?
I believe the best messenger in this area is his cabinet and looking at a newly installed
secretary Bergum in the department of interior who has history working
coming from as a former North Dakota governor and being set up as the secretary of interior
also any the assistant or deputy secretaries within that department and subsequently the
BIA director these are probably the president's best resources for advice on how to manage a unique
group with a unique history in the United States such as Indigenous people and as well
there have been a lot of relationships forged over the years with members of Congress
members of the Senate people that have aligned a lot of the similar priorities in Indian country
not all of Indian country are against let's say mineral extraction some of them have
quite the industry on that and they are supported very well by members from
both sides of the both sides of the aisle so I do believe some of the best advocacy is
you know making sure that we have our contacts in the year of the president right now we this is
a very tumultuous time because I do believe that the president is going to touch a few more hot
stoves and you know make some decisions that's going to impact his base I also believe that a lot
of people that voted for the president are starting to learn that they are also going to be the
victims of some of this own creation I wouldn't be surprised if families out in rural Wisconsin
are pulling their signs up because they may be affected by some of the targeted programs and
policies of the Trump administration has the state stepped in at all to offer support or guidance
uniquely our state governor is a democrat he has had his colleagues in the Wisconsin State
Senate which has 33 members in the Wisconsin State Assembly which has 99 members both GOP led
and so they have a history of working together for the most part however we do have a lot of
emboldened GOP members now that are looking at this as striking time to implement some statewide
policies and maybe target some of the statewide programs that have diversity and equity included
in them governor evers has vowed and committed to veto anything that's basically saying that
any bill that would target any DEI initiatives is dead on arrival for inset for a veto and
another question regarding state you mentioned with hoe chunk and gaming and the casinos
contributing to the really wider state economy other other ways that hoe chunk nation contributes
to Wisconsin absolutely the hoe chunk nation in in its interesting gaming franchise employees
at least in the gaming side nearly 90% of every employee in hoe chunk gaming are made up of non
hoe chunks we employ like I said over 2,400 individuals most of them in the gaming sector
the next large amount would be in the government sector and the final amount would be in the health
sector so you know overall about 70% of those 2,400 employees are non tribal so we make sure
that not only we employ folks outside of the nation but we also take care of them on the health
side the hoe chunk nation and for all of its flaws and successes I've always been able to hang my
hat on the fact that we have provided some of the best health care insurance for tribal and
non tribal employees in that it's it's almost economically brilliant to take a frontline service
job and secure our health benefit package this means something today we have been struggling
outside of here with rising health care costs rising supportive care costs rising prescription
drug costs those things seem to be almost nearly unregulated and they are these are the bread
and butter issues that are hitting at home we may not know about the plan to develop Gaza we may
not know about his you know relations and discussions with Justin Trudeau in Canada but the stuff that
hits home are out of pocket health care costs co-pays large premiums and one of the things that I
really appreciate is as far as you know being a good partner is actually demonstrating it and
not just talking about it the hoe chunk nation also contributes over 70 million dollars in
contract services so this isn't just law firms and things like that but these are these were mom
and pop shops that were just starting out small that have probably become millionaires over the
course of decades working with the nations and it seems simple but when you walk into the tribal
office building you're going to walk across our welcome mats someone is going to pick those
welcome mats up every Thursday and replace them with the new clean ones and walk out the door and
and feed their families and contribute to the local economy someone's going to spray for
pest control someone's going to repay the sidewalk or check out the h-back systems all of these
things are money in motion and this is what creates the economy i'm i'm not an economist
but i i realize that this is what makes america great is being able to circulate
dollars within a community so that people are not left without i want to ask you about trumps
executive order a few days after in regard to ice being told to go out and arrest undocumented
people in the country and we really we hear the messaging on who's to be uh who's to be arrested
and who's not can you tell me about the impact of a whole chunk people in this state with ice
having a message to target undocumented Hispanics great question it's important and it has to be
said that you know there's a likely propensity for american indian indigenous people to get caught
in the crossfire of being misidentified um of having um uh mexican descent for officials who are
charged with implementing and enforcing a policy against illegal immigration um i'm not sure if the
actual occurrence of a engagement between indigenous people and ice is a larger threat
than the fear of engaging ice event uh an event with uh ice officials uh so you know people worry
not just for themselves but for the things that they don't have control of ice is not unlike the
media where the policy has been driven with getting rid of our criminals and our law breakers
ice as i understand it aren't just going through crime-ridden streets and picking up um illegal
immigrants they're coming to our schools they're coming to our churches our places of employment
places where we buy our groceries and targeting people that may have been residents um for decades
here and a lot of them are u.s citizens the worst case scenarios are u.s citizens
gifted these rights that we speak about being unlawfully detained unnecessarily questioned
and invoked with um some sort of authority um to to invoke fear uh i worry about this uh in
the rare occasion that it could happen so i try to advance something that is more preventative
and some of those things that i can hope would remedy a situation if there is an encounter with
ice officials is to make sure that uh our tribal members have proper identification and
also um uh are able to understand how to assess a situation be cooperative don't be
competitive don't jump on the hero bus and and you know question their authority and you know do
all the ingredients to um to make a situation that isn't very favorable worse um i worry about
the cocktail that could brew out there to have um uh an individual or family in fear be pulled over
by an ice official that is emboldened and really adrenalized to to execute this policy
these that situation worries me we don't have a lot of control over what ice officials or homeland
security does but we have a lot of control over what we do and how we respond and my advice is to
be cooperative for the most part they're doing their job they're putting food on the table for
their families and probably don't want to spend a lot of time um on someone that isn't a target
of that policy um i will also add you know with immigration amendments that took place nearly
ten years ago we have um the proliferation of 287g agreements and what those agreements are
are law enforcement agencies that willingly offered to provide services linear with ice
officials will basically extending the arm of ice to um local law enforcement agents there are
seven counties within the state of Wisconsin that are what we would call 287g counties none of those
counties um coincidentally are anywhere near that um where our highest concentration of
whole chunk tribal members are but there are counties that um do have a lot of mixed populations in
there so um you know the law enforcement resources that are out in the state are often often small
and so in speaking with you know local law enforcement near or over the jurisdiction of some of our
communities speaking with some of the state law enforcement you know they are not 287g
and um they really don't have the resources to execute any duties other than peace keeping and
doing um businesses usual you mentioned tribal IDs and Indian country are members of our
U.S. citizens tell me what is a tribal ID and why it's so permanent pertinent to whole chunk
members at this time. I recently released an executive order very similarly to a lot of other
indigenous nations who had waived fees for processing tribal IDs and CDIBs which are the
certificate degree of Indian blood and the reason why is because um having proper identification
especially today is really important by not doing so you take a look at this regressively
that you don't have that ID that could frustrate um individuals and a lot of times it isn't a
matter of just having an ID for people of color we're often asked for more than one form of ID
and we're often given more than one squad car um it's always a little bit bigger affair for people
of color that is a fact uh and you know to have a tribal ID as a supplement or um to assist in the
verification of their identity is something I believe will allow for a little bit of a smoother
engagement with um ICE officials or any other law enforcement so um tribal IDs are significant
because they not only um verify that you are a citizen um aside from the federal law in 1990
or 1924 um they also say that you're a unique dual citizen that you are a citizen of your nation
and a citizen of the United States and identity is a is a big part of this
we we didn't design it this way this isn't our work we are the only group of people that have to
write down to the very minuscule level to the percentage uh identify how much native we are
through blood quantum now some tribes have evolved into looking at lineage and
descendants but for the most part the federal government and the certificate degree of Indian
blood will lay out just how much you are nobody has to do that and it's ridiculous that tribal
members not only have to carry their state or federal ID tribal ID CDIB birth certificate and
practically might as well put their baby infant footprints on themselves as well just
to verify who they are now my guess is ICE isn't walking through Macy's or anything ICE is going
to where brown people are people that look Mexican so to say that there isn't racial profiling
we we know there is and so the wonderful melting pot theory actually you know doesn't work for
them in this case because there's a lot of folks that you know our tribal members that you know
don't carry that same phenotype that but for the most part we are being profiled and and to be
profiled to be to be singled out creates a lot of uneasiness out there for that reason you know
I I'll combat this the other way be proud of who you are be proud to be brown be proud to have
that black hair that long hair you know be proud of being indigenous being whole chunk you know
don't be afraid to show that and you know that's that's the kind of energy I want to see among
our tribal people our indigenous people of across the nation our Mexican brothers and sisters
be proud because that's what made America great I don't know how that narrative got changed around
so quickly actually I don't believe it has I I I'll believe it if I make myself believe it but
I'm not going to do that if a proud hoe chunk member gets pulled over and proudly shows their
tribal ID card is that law enforcement going to recognize it is ICE going to recognize it
and is there is there a need on that level for reeducation with hoe chunk people yes the law
enforcement will recognize it and honor it the hoe chunk nation has six law enforcement
agreements with various counties to which our largest populations and communities are from
IDs vary indigenous IDs over 500 different types of IDs are out there so I wouldn't expect you know
homeland security through their departments of CBP where other customs border patrol
ICE immigration custom and enforcement or TSA to know all of these identifications which is why
one of the initiatives that this office has is to work with homeland security work with CBP
work with TSA work with ICE work with the state of Wisconsin and real ID and make sure that we
can provide what is called tribally enhanced identification cards they're not necessarily as
as universal as a United States passport but they will provide what they're I hope they will be able
to provide the necessary credentials declaration of US citizenship and any hallmarks holograms
that department of homeland security might like to see in there and perhaps hopefully even a real
ID so making sure that that those IDs are a lot stronger out there and more universally accepted
will will probably reduce some of the risk of folks that aren't accepting those IDs to not accept
a tribal ID is almost a very aggressive thing to do to a tribal member this is their ID this is
their home this is where they're from and by not accepting that really can be taken a very
negative way and I I would definitely support that because I do expect that but
most of our law enforcement have lived with us since we've been here since we've never left they've
know us they they know our families our communities our streets they know they know our business and
with social media they they know what we're talking about so we don't have to do a lot of
re-education but it never hurts to be able to provide and showcase some of our way of life which
is why I've extended to homeland security my direct services and that of our traditional
chief to go out there and provide some knowledge as a political group as an entity as a sovereign
nation so that ICE officials understand that when they pull over or they stop or they question
ho-chunk tribal members that you are talking to someone that is the legacy of thousands and
thousands of years of occupancy in this very area have you heard?