with that building was designed to if they ever took it over.
It's like, well, when the protesters just go to another building,
they could go find somewhere else.
Yeah. I think they're a little more into that.
But we're good. Are we rolling?
All right. And just to let you know, so the format of this is,
hopefully this will feel like a conversation will edit.
So if you do, if something pops up, take a second,
start over. Not a big deal.
Otherwise we are ready to go.
All right. If you're ready to go.
I'm ready. All right.
Joel Brennan. Thanks for coming in today.
Thanks for having me.
So for the voters who don't know you,
introduce yourself and say why you're running for governor.
Yeah. Well, I'm somebody who's had a 30 year career here in Wisconsin,
mine's a Wisconsin story.
And I'm somebody who's oven from here.
And I can tell you the conversations I have with people here
that there is a palpable sense of frustration, anger.
I think people are truly concerned about just making ends meet.
And then, you know, you add on to that that you've got Donald Trump
in the White House who is chaotic, he's dysfunctional,
who's cruel, and it's enough to make everybody angry.
And I'm angry too.
But I'm also somebody who, over the course of a career,
you know, I've demonstrated for some people when you get angry,
you want to get even when I get angry, I want to roll up my sleeves
and get something done.
And so that's what I've tried to demonstrate.
And so we have in Wisconsin a situation where there are 200,000 people
who are about to lose their health care benefits.
Tens of thousands more who are going to see their premiums double or triple.
And so that's a reason for people to be angry.
And in some ways, we need to ensure that Wisconsin values are protected.
But thankfully we have fair maps now and with fair maps and a Democratic governor,
we have an opportunity to make real lasting change for Wisconsin,
protect those values, and do things that can put us right by Wisconsin families.
That's why I'm running.
Is there a single issue that drives you or maybe a lane within the Democratic party
that helps define who you are?
Well, I think if anybody's looking around right now,
that the main issue that anybody is dealing with here in Wisconsin is affordability.
You know, we're in a situation where just in the last week,
it was revealed that the first time home buyers now are 40 years old.
Five years ago, they were average of 33 years old.
And we've got we spent $10,000 a year on health care
per person in Wisconsin.
Yet there are people who go without,
people who can't afford their prescription drugs.
You know, and a year of daycare in Wisconsin
costs as much as a year of tuition at the University of Wisconsin,
Milwaukee, or University of Wisconsin, Madison.
And we have a situation where still there's child care deserts
for a good portion of our state.
So all of those are challenges.
And then at the same time, you have Donald Trump running around the country
saying affordability is a Democratic hoax.
It's not a hoax.
It's an issue that's real for every Wisconsin resident.
And I think that's the defining issue about not only how can we stand up to
Donald Trump and anybody else in Wisconsin who would try to stand in the
way of our values, but also how can we get to a place where we're really
making a difference for people's affordability and how they live their lives here.
How much money do you need to raise in order to be competitive and win this
primary and then survive into the general election?
Yeah, well, I think elections are expensive.
And what I'm going to do in this race is I'm going to lean into the relationships
that I've developed and cultivated over the course of the last 30 years.
You know, I grew up as the second youngest of 11 kids.
I had to work my way through college, have four or five jobs to do that.
Everything I've ever had, I have earned.
And so what I'm going to do is go out and communicate with people about the
work that I've done over the last 30 years, the executive experience, the
breads that I have, and I'm confident that I can generate resources as I
listen to and talk to people around the state.
This is a very large democratic primary, very competitive one.
How do you define the difference between negative campaigning versus
showing up differences between candidates?
Well, you know, like I said, I'm the second youngest of 11 kids.
I know what it's like to have to go to a crowded table and elbow your way in,
whether it's for attention or even to get a meal.
And so, you know, I'm comfortable with that, but what I am going to do in this
campaign is really talk to people about me and about my background.
30 years of progressive executive experience, things like running the
largest science museum in the state of Wisconsin at Discovery World.
Three years as the top appointed official in the Governor Evers cabinet and the
work that we did there.
So the way that I'm going to try to distinguish myself from others is to
just communicate with them about the depth of relationships and what we have
done. You know, people sometimes forget in the era of Trump that Wisconsin had
a lot of things to deal with, and we needed to recover from eight years of
Scott Walker and a right-wing legislature.
I was really proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with Governor Evers over the
three years that I was his secretary, and we were able to get to a point where
Wisconsin had its largest surplus in state history at that point of rainy day
fund that got to $1.7 billion.
And then we navigated our way through COVID and we're able to provide real
relief to farmers, to Wisconsin residents who needed a roof over their head,
to small businesses.
And so those are the kind of things that I think I can demonstrate that, you
know, there are lots of people who will stand up and say, yeah, we're going to be
tough, but who actually has rolled up their sleeves to get something done.
So as voters start to get to know these candidates, should they be looking for
who's closest to them on the issues?
Or should they be thinking about electability?
You know, I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive.
I think the issues are hugely important to everybody here in the state.
And I think that, you know, when voters look, they have options and
primaries are good for establishing options.
And so they'll have opportunities to look at all the candidates and what we
stand for, the things I'm really going to be leaning into and the things I'm
going to be communicating with people are about, you know, the work that we had
to do in state government throughout COVID.
It was a time where government was the last resort and had to work.
If you were running a family farmer, if you were a small business, if you were
at risk because you couldn't make rent, you know, you needed the background,
the government to be there for you.
And that's what we did.
There was not a playbook that was written for us for the worst health care
and economic crisis in a hundred years.
And I'm really proud of the work that we did throughout COVID.
And we got Wisconsin onto a track, onto the right track.
And now we're in a place where five years later, you know, due to some of the
dysfunction that's happening at the federal level and things that are at
peril here in the state, we can't, we have to ensure that we don't backslide.
So that's the area that I really want to work on over the next nine months of
the campaign.
Most of the Democratic candidates have connections to Milwaukee or Madison.
How do you introduce yourself to rural Wisconsin, the rest of the state?
Yeah, well, mine's a Wisconsin story.
My dad was born in 1927 to a single mom in Manitowoc, Wisconsin.
My mom was born in 1928 in Milwaukee, grew up in Milwaukee and East Troy.
And so, you know, ours is a Wisconsin story, just like lots of other people's here.
You know, and I think, you know, as I talk to people about affordability, it may
look a little different in different places around the state.
If you live in the Fox Valley and you're one of the people who's at risk of losing
your health care, you know, that's a, that's part of your story.
If you live, if you're a farmer and you aren't, you didn't have a chance to have
your crop go to market because of Trump's tariffs, you know, if you're somebody
else here in Wisconsin who's at risk because of some of the things that are
going on at the federal level, like the story is different for people.
But the commonality is that we all want to make Wisconsin affordable.
We need to take the steps to ensure that Wisconsin values and Wisconsin families
are protected.
And I think that's a story I'm looking forward to hearing from people.
And I'm looking forward to discussing with them at a kitchen table anywhere in
the state of Wisconsin.
You've referenced the president's number of times.
So what impact do you think Donald Trump will have on this election?
I think his impact looms large over everything that we do right now, you know,
and at this point, the most likely candidate on the Republican side is
Tom Tiffany and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree when it comes to Tom
Tiffany and Donald Trump.
And so I think we need people, we need candidates who are able to stand up that,
but not only stand up, but be able to demonstrate that they've been effective
about doing things and getting things done.
And, you know, in my view of this, you know, yes, Donald Trump is going to play a
role in the campaign, but ultimately the campaign can't be just about Donald
Trump has to be about Wisconsin families, Wisconsin values.
That's what I come from.
That's who I am.
And that's what I'm looking forward to discussing and talking about as I'm out
on the campaign trail of people.
As governor, there's a decent chance you could have a democratic
majority behind you in the legislature.
In that case, what's AB1?
What's the first bill you want to sign?
Well, I think no matter what we do, the first thing we need to do is work on
affordability.
I think there are any number of ways in which we need to ensure whether it's on
the issues of stable housing around the state or whether it's on the issues of
health care, Medicaid expansion, which the governor has tried to do over the
course of his eight years, hasn't been able to do those are the types of things
that can be done under with a democratic majority.
And those are the types of things that I'd be eager to do right away.
Conversely, there could also be Republicans in charge of one of the houses.
What's your track record of working across the aisle?
I think I'm somebody who over the course of 30 years has demonstrated that I am a
relationship person first.
It's something that I have made a point of and I have ensured that as I go
throughout my career, I think I checked my ideology at the door when I want to
roll up my sleeves and get things done.
It's necessary to do in the nonprofit sector.
It's necessary to do in government.
But I would tell you that the most important thing that we can do in
Wisconsin over the course of the next nine months, the next 11 months when we
get to the general election is to ensure that we have a democratic governor.
Ensure that because of the fair maps, we have a democratic majority in the
assembly and in the state Senate, and that'll allow us to do things that truly
can make a difference in the lives of Wisconsin residents and make lasting
change for us.
We're going to, you know, there has been 15 years of Republican domination in
the legislature and 15 years where we have back slid on really being able to
support Wisconsin families, Wisconsin workers.
I'd be eager to change that trend and the most important thing to do in that
regard is to get a democratic governor and Democrats in the legislature.
The Public Service Commission is looking at pretty large utility rate hikes.
There's data centers being proposed all over.
What's your plan to deal with those issues?
Well, I think the biggest thing that we have to do when it comes to all of
this stuff around AI and data centers, like the challenge is around for
government is around transparency and accountability.
The companies that are looking to build these, they want speed.
They are intent on getting this done as quickly as possible.
The communities that are affected, the ratepayers, what they want and what they
need out of government is they need us to be responsible.
They need us to be accountable and they need to ensure that there's
transparency with all of this.
You know, AI is something that I think is, it is a little disconcerting to me
personally because it's an area that all of us know how dramatically and how
quickly things are changing.
So, you know, we all, we all have a little anxiety about that.
And you see that at the local level with these things.
But I think that the responsibility that we have fundamentally is to just
ensure that these conversations, some that are happening at the state level,
a lot that are happening at the local level, that they are, that the main thing
that we have with them is that there is transparency around them and that the
users of this are accountable and that, you know, the benefits accrued to all of
us and that the responsibility for the costs aren't borne by taxpayers in the
state of Wisconsin.
What would you like to see happen with public education funding?
Do we need an increase?
Do we need an overhaul in the system?
Well, I think, you know, we've got to make sure that we look absolutely at how
do we spend more on public education in Wisconsin.
One of the challenges, I think, is that we're still working on a system.
Tommy Thompson took a snapshot of what things looked like in 1993 and we're
still looking, we're still working with that system 32 years later.
I think it would be courageous and necessary for us to look at exactly what
we need to do for 2026 and moving forward rather than trying to make the
best of a 30-year-old system.
So, I absolutely think that we need to invest in special education.
We need to fund our schools appropriately.
We need to ensure that classrooms are places that are welcoming for teachers,
welcoming for students.
And then we've got to hold ourselves accountable for the outcomes because
nothing more important to us in the future of our state than ensuring that we have
the kind of outcomes that we need coming out of our schools all across the state
and at every level, from early childhood, all the way up through the university
and technical system.
What would you like to see happen with the voucher system?
Expand, contract, stay the same.
You know, the voucher system has now been in place for the last 30 years.
I'm not interested in a dramatic expansion of it, but I also think there's
challenges of trying to put that genie back into the bottle.
I think the most fundamental thing for us is around accountability for everybody
in education, making sure that we have the right investment in kids and making
sure that we're holding ourselves, holding schools accountable for the
challenges that we have in education.
But at the same time, you know, as with anything with education, there are lots
of problems that come to the schoolhouse door.
They have nothing to do with what happens inside that schoolhouse.
So we also need to make sure that we're fundamentally looking at how do we
ensure that there is better housing around the state that we provide for people
when it comes to health insurance and just the overall economic opportunities
that we need as a state.
You know, I'm a parent, I'm a father of two kids and I want my kids to have a
chance to do and be successful here in Wisconsin.
Part of the path that they have that's gotten them there is a strong public
education and where they could do that.
And that's what we need to get for everybody here in the state of Wisconsin.
What's the number one tax reform you'd like to see?
I think that there are just that we have made strides in the last few sessions
in terms of reducing taxes to people, the tax burden on people in the middle class.
And I think that as we look at anything related to taxes and generating revenue
in the state of Wisconsin, equity and fairness needs to be the way that we
look at that.
I think the way that the legislature has had a super majority, almost a super
majority in the Assembly and the Senate over the last 15 years, I think we may
have gotten a little bit askew in terms of how we're looking at equity and
fairness in our tax system.
And I think we should explore that everywhere.
But I think that the main thing is that, you know, at this point, the biggest
issue that people have in the state of Wisconsin is how can they afford to pay
for the issues or the things that they need to put on their kitchen table.
And so, you know, as we think about what the tax burden is, we need to ensure
that we're giving people the tools and the opportunities to be successful in
their families.
Over the last year, the Wisconsin Supreme Court has struck down a lot of
legislative oversight over the legislative rulemaking process.
There have been talks of possibly a bipartisan compromise to restore some
oversight.
What would you like to see happen as governor?
Well, I think, you know, people should think about what happened in the lame duck
session before Tony Evers ever started.
You know, the legislature and Scott Walker look to try to gut the governor's
office and the attorney general.
And a lot of what's happened in the last year is restoring, I think, the right
balance between the legislature and the governor.
You know, Wisconsin works best when we have three co-equal branches of
government when the legislature, the governor, and the judicial branch are
all operating well.
And that has been certainly out of line over the last 15 years as the
Republicans have oftentimes run roughshod over other branches of government
and other parts of Wisconsin, the important Wisconsin elements.
So, you know, I think that we need to restore that balance.
But I think it's, we also, the most important thing that we can do is
ensure that there's a Democratic governor, ensure that there's a
legislature that has a Democratic majority in the Assembly and the Senate.
And if we can do that, we'll start to get that balance, not just with the
legislature and the governor, but the balance that I think taxpayers and
citizens of Wisconsin need.
What would you like to see happen for funding for local government?
Well, I think I was very involved in the effort two years ago to try to
ensure that there was some better, that local units of government got more of
that shared revenue because that's where the rubber meets the road, you know,
where in local government, that's where public safety, where local roads and
bridges, fire, all of those very important services are done.
And that contract, people I think, no, the contract is about 115 years old,
where, you know, Wisconsin was one of the first places to collect all the
money in Madison and then send it back to local units of government.
Well, when we have the number of referenda that are still going on,
when, you know, places like Whitewater and Stevens Point have to go to
right, what have to go to referendum in order to create positions for
firefighters, that system is still not working the way it needs to work.
And so, you know, I think that no matter what we do, we need to ensure
that the relationship between local government and state government is
strong and that we're hearing what's happening at the local level.
And I think that we have, for many years, as state shared revenue was
frozen, I think we were not listening to local government as their costs were
increasing. I think we've done a little bit. We've made some progress in that
in the last few years, but it certainly is not something that's been fixed yet.
And so that would be one of the areas that I'd be committed to working on
with all of my partners in local government.
Right now, there's exploratory drilling in Northern Wisconsin and a number of
different sites looking at future mines. The mining law was overhauled in
2017. Do you think that current law is correct? Would you like to see
something different in place for these potential mines?
I think one of the most important things that we have in Wisconsin, of
differentiator that we have in Wisconsin versus other places around the country,
is that the natural beauty, the ability that we have to go out and enjoy
Wisconsin. And that's not a partisan issue. That's not an ideological issue.
That's a vision that we share for the state. And so as we think about anything
that would do any potential harm to the state of Wisconsin, I think we need to
be very cautious about that. I think there are issues around economic
development that I think we need to try to find that right balance. And if it's
time to revisit that issue or it's time to have that conversation, I'd be all
for it. But the most important thing for me and one of the most important core
differentiations for Wisconsin from anywhere else in the country is how we
appreciate and how we have a visceral connection to Wisconsin and its beauty.
And I'm not going to be somebody who puts that in peril on behalf of the
six million residents of our state. That's something that paramount for us.
In this political environment, have you had any concerns for your own personal
safety while campaigning? I'm concerned about the level of vitriol for
anybody here. I'm concerned when I see what happened in Pennsylvania with Josh
Shapiro and what happened at the executive residence there. One of the
things that I bring to this campaign is as the Secretary of the Department of
Administration, we were responsible for the management of the executive
residence of the state capital. And so I've had opportunity to see that. I
respect the people who do that work and who work in local law enforcement.
I guess I still believe that campaigns are about ideas and I absolutely, I know
that there are going to be people who disagree with me and disagree with me
on the campaign. I hope and expect that they're going to do that honorably. I am
more than willing to take potshots that people have online and there's a
lot of that and I have to have a thick skin around that. But I hope
that we're at a place and I hope we can demonstrate in Wisconsin that we do
things civilly. You know we have a horrible example at the federal level in
Donald Trump who I think we continually kind of find out how much lower he can
go where we don't think that morally or ethically he can go any lower. And his
comments about the death of Rob Reiner and his wife were just another example
of that. But I'd like to think that in Wisconsin we can elevate the discussion,
elevate the way we treat people. That's who we are. That's the core values that we
share and who we are just as Wisconsinites. What's your plan to increase
affordable housing? Well you know I think you're in a situation. I mentioned
earlier where we are in a place in Wisconsin where the average, the first
time average home buyer, the average age for that has gone to 40 years old and it
was 33 years old just five years ago. And so we are creating a nation of
renters and a state of renters and no matter where you go around the state
when you're talking to an employer, when you're talking to the people in the
school district, when you're talking to universities or higher ed people, they
all say that there is a challenge in finding the housing for not only
affordable housing at the lowest income level but also for those who are
seeking there and getting their first job or starting their families. So that's
an issue that is absolutely paramount to me. I think you know Wisconsin likely
needs a top-to-bottom housing plan where we can look at all aspects of this and
and there are tools at our disposal that we have through weed-up that I'm not
sure that we are using to the best of our abilities and if we need new tools
we'll go out and get them. But this is kind of the core of affordability for
Wisconsin families is ensuring that they have a safe and secure place to put a
roof over their head, that they can build equity, that they can build wealth for
their family over time. So that's one of the issues that I look forward to
working on as soon as I become governor. The Department of Corrections is
going undergoing a pretty rapid overhaul. Would you carry Governor Evers plan
forward? I think I was at the front end of some of those the work that happened
with Governor Evers in the administration. I think that the challenge that we
have and you know I worked with Secretary Kevin Carr as the head of the
Department of Corrections and I think as I told him he had one of the toughest
jobs in state government and I think we need to continually try to create
that balance where there is need for secure detention and where there's
need for employees of the correction system to have the right tools at
their disposal. We need to create those because we have these 150-year-old
prisons and things that we need to do and to make investments on but at the
same time I think we also need and I think the governor has done this too. We
need to look at the alternatives to incarceration. We need to work with our
partners at the local level to ensure that there is a pathway that doesn't
just ensure that what we have is the last resort which is where we're putting
people in prison and locking them up. If somebody you know if there's a law
that's broken I respect the judicial system and I respect the ability for
lawyers and judges to manage that and put people in prison and incarcerate them
as they need to but there's so much that we can do at the front end investing in
early childhood investing in education ensuring that there are opportunities
for people who are coming out of high school or technical schools like there
are lots of things that we can do to ensure that we're not just doing things
and spending them at the end of the pipeline. Would you like to see any
changes to Wisconsin abortion laws? Well abortion to me is a decision that is
best made between a woman and her health care provider abortion is health
care and so you know I'd like to see us to do things that get politics out of
that and ensure that women and their doctors can make those decisions the
educated and informed decisions on their own. Alright Joel Brennan thanks for
coming in. Thank you. Alright you made it through. Thank you very much. Yeah. Alright