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Senator Larson, do we have you yet?

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Nice to see you.

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We have to see you, but to see you, sir, thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Good morning.

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This is the start of the meeting on committees and universities for technical colleges and

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universities.

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So this committee is now in session.

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Welcome all of you who are attending as visitors and potential speakers.

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If you are looking to register, whether to speak or just to register, please talk to our folks who are

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by the doors or we have kiosks outside that you can fill out for the benefit of this committee.

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We have everybody coming for and we understand who is here to speak versus just here to attend.

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With that, we will go ahead and take the role of the committee.

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Senator Hutton, here.

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Senator Pearl, here.

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Here.

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Senator Fine.

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Here.

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Senator Larson, here.

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Senator Pat.

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Here.

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Thanks.

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Well, thank you for joining us today.

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We ask you to ensure that for the respect of everybody.

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If you have a phone that you would mute it in the lower or less committees, the actual chair forgot to do that.

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So I will sort of be consistent with all of you to make sure that it happens as well.

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Mr. Chairman, before we get started, why don't I ask Pledge Council a question?

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Let me go ahead and get through our remarks.

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Senator, and we can do that.

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Thank you.

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If you do have written testimony and you do plan to, just if I would ask that you would have copies for the committee ahead of time

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and again, our folks and pages that can help that, please get your information to them and they will take care of making those copies for you.

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We are here today about a decision by the Board of Regents that raises concerns not just about transparency,

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but about how prepared or serious they are about addressing the strategic direction of the University of the Wisconsin system.

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Appiring President Jay Rothman without a clear explanation to the public requires scrutiny.

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It demands the public receives the answers that it is entitled to.

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This is not a routine personal matter.

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This is the Chief Executive of one of the most important public institutions in our state.

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Decisions of this magnitude require a straightforward explanation.

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Transparency is the foundation of public trust when decisions are made without an explain justification.

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Further arose confidence not just to the Board of Regents, but in the institution itself.

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The legislature has an important role in the oversight of a state entity like the Board of Regents in exactly this type of situation,

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particularly the Senate has a role of approving the governor's nominations to the Board of Regents.

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If Regents expect to earn the approval of this body, they must demonstrate a commitment to open and humble decision making.

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Throughout my time in the state Senate in this committee's time, we have tried to focus on big picture and long-term challenges

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that need to be addressed in higher education, which remains strong over the coming decades.

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UW's system is a cornerstone of our state's economy.

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I believe we all agree with that consensus.

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It is currently educating 1,650,000 students, and it provides a critical workforce pipeline for employers across our state.

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At the same time, it faces serious long-term challenges.

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Enrollment has declined by 9% since 2012, far more than counting just traditional students, with some campuses seeing 25 to 30% enrollment drops.

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There is a shrinking college age population, increasing alternatives to four-year educations, and growing concerns over families about the cost and value

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and return on that education investment.

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Employers across Wisconsin are telling us they cannot find enough workers with the skills they need,

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while students are questioning whether the traditional model of higher education is being their needs long-term.

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At the same time, we continue to hear concerns about the cost and value of their degree and the same bureaucracy within the current system.

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These are issues that demand full attention of the Board of Regents.

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Instead, we are faced with a sudden leadership shake-up that risks creating instability at a time when the Chancellor turnover is high,

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and our flagship university is losing its CEO.

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While the system's desperate needs to be more ambitious and reform-minded,

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President Rothman worked to loop the system forward through difficult challenges,

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engaging with both the legislature and the governor on reforms,

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removing him with no explanation, sends a troubling signal to taxpayers, students, and employers,

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and even donors about where the institution is heading.

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My committee and I have consistently worked to advocate for deep system reforms that will strengthen the UW system long-term.

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Reforms that improve accountability, align education with workforce needs,

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and ensure that taxpayers and families are getting the value of their investment.

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We must ensure that the UW system remains strong, competitive, and responsive to the needs of its employers.

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Today's hearing is about what went into the decision to remove President Rothman,

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if those justifications weren't as removal and if the process earns the continued trust of the site.

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Senate has a constitutional role in conforming regents, and that authority exists for a reason,

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and that reason is accountability within the system.

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If that standard is not being met, it is appropriate for this committee to act.

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We owe it to the people in Wisconsin to ask questions, to demand answers, and to ensure the governance

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of the UW system reflects the depth of the challenges it faces.

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With that, we will go into the hearing, and we will begin to call out those who are here to testify,

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and Senator Papp, you have a question for the legislature council before we proceed.

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Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

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My question for the legislature is, can you explain to me, and to my colleagues,

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what is the definition of at-will employment?

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Let's just gin it down to, it could be generally,

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cast as an employment arrangement that is able to be discharged by either party,

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employer or employee, would not cause for a reason.

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So just to be clear, do you or do you not have to have a reason for your termination if you are an at-will employee?

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Generally no.

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Generally no.

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I thank you very much for that, and I assume that the former CEO of Wisconsin's largest

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law firm knows that as well.

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I would also say this, I do always take the responsibility of oversight, very important,

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and I do agree with the chair, that investment in the University of Wisconsin's system is important as an investment in our economy,

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but I will just make this comment.

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This is the fourth public hearing, this legislative session, that this committee has had.

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We have only meant three times prior, and if we're serious about oversight, when it comes to the University of Wisconsin's system,

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making sure that there is accountability with the UW system, we have a job to do as well,

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and it is disappointing that this is only the fourth time that this committee has met this legislative session.

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With that, I yield that.

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Very good.

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With that we have two individuals registered to testify before this committee here this afternoon.

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I will ask President Logust and are we going to have both of you come up at the same time?

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Very good.

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Welcome to the Board of Regents, and obviously the Board Chair.

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You are free to come up and testify before us.

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Okay, thank you very much.

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We need for Andrew to join.

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Thank you very much.

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Chairman Hayten and members of this committee, good morning.

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I am grateful for the opportunity to appear before you today, and I do not take it lightly that this is my third time before this committee.

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I want to begin where I always begin when I speak about the University of Wisconsin with gratitude.

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Serving on this Board of Regents has been among the greatest honors of my life.

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For six years, I have had this privilege of sitting in rooms with students who are first in their families to earn a college degree,

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with veterans returning to finish what they started, with researchers unlocking discoveries that will change how we treat diseases,

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and with faculty and staff who show up every single day committed to the mission of these institutions.

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The University of Wisconsin is not an abstraction.

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It is a living, breathing engine of opportunity for the people of the state,

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and it contributes billions of dollars to our economy by producing the teachers, engineers, nurses, and business leaders Wisconsin depends on.

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My entire family are graduates of the University of Wisconsin.

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I have seen firsthand what these universities have meant to my family, and just so many Wisconsin families.

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That is why I take this responsibility so seriously, and why I will continue to advocate for these institutions with everything I have.

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I say all of this because I want this committee to understand the spirit in which every one of my fellow Regents approaches this work.

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We are experienced leaders from business, law, academia, and public service.

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We are proud alumni.

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We are volunteers who take no compensation and bring deep judgment to the responsibility we have been entrusted with.

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It is from this place of genuine care for these institutions and the people they serve that the Board of Regents reached a unanimous 17-0 decision to end Mr. Rothman's employment.

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I recognize that this hearing has been convened in the wake of that decision, and I want to address this committee directly and honestly.

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It is entirely understandable that this committee has questions, and I want to be as transparent with you as I am legally able to do.

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But I need to say something clearly.

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President Rothman knows exactly what he is doing.

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He is a sophisticated professional who understands that personnel matters are confidential.

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The confidentiality surrounding his evaluation was not arbitrary.

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It reflects a fundamental fiduciary duty that this Board owes to the University of Wisconsin to the integrity of our process and to every individual who is subject to them.

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We kept this matter confidential because that is what responsible governance requires.

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It is what law requires and is what our obligation is to these universities.

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And yet President Rothman understands all of this has chosen to use that constraint as a shield, making public statements he knows I cannot revive.

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And framing the narrative he knows I cannot correct.

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That is deliberately one-sided. That is not a search for truth, that is strategy.

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I will not pretend otherwise. What he said publicly is misleading, and the fact that is misleading does not reflect a lack of reasons on the part of this Board.

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It reflects the opposite. The reasons are substantial. Process was very thorough.

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And if Mr. Rothman generally wants this committee and the public to understand what happened, there is a straightforward path.

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He can waive his confidentiality. The moment he does, I will sit before this committee and walk through the details. I welcome that conversation.

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Until then, I am not hiding behind this rule. I am honoring it.

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It is my responsibility, the Board's responsibility as a member and attorney that I must do.

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What I can tell you is this. That decision was not made lightly. It was not political. It was not retaliatory. It was unanimous.

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Every single member of the Board in attendance was in agreement.

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Boards of Regents do not reach 17-0 decisions on a limb.

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I also want to address directly what has been said publicly in recent phase.

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Mr. Rothman has stated that he will not step down because he believes he is doing what is best for the University of Wisconsin.

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At the same time he is making this claim, he is engaged in a sustained public campaign that is causing real harm to these very institutions.

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The ones he says he is protecting. Every day spent relittigating this decision through the media is a day that undercuts the faculty, the students and the staff and the reputation of our universities.

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I will let the public and this committee decide if that is a mark of true leadership.

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Mr. Rothman made clear repeatedly that he would only wish to serve with the Board's full confidence.

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We took him at his work. When that confidence was no longer existed, we acted accordingly.

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The Universities of Wisconsin at this critical moment in higher education deserves nothing less than a leader who is fully aligned with the Board in ready to leave.

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I have devoted six years of my life to this Board. We are not political hacks. We are not a rubber stand.

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We are serious public servants who have given up ourselves because we believe in what the Universities of Wisconsin means to the people of Wisconsin.

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And we made a difficult decision for the right reasons and we stand by it.

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I am honored to continue this service. I firmly believe that this Board and the Universities of Wisconsin are made of something much stronger than this moment.

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And I thank you very much for this time. Thank you.

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Thank you.

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Thank you, Mr. President, for your testimony.

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So next we would like to go ahead and testify and then we can open up the committee.

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Let me just take a few comments because President Poco has covered that she and I are sort of in the name of the game at least in style.

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So let me do my two Nixon comments.

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This is an unfortunate situation for the University of Wisconsin.

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I did not choose this. Jay Rothford did.

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This was done by the way exactly like he handled the same situation for others.

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Look at the political letters from a couple of days ago.

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This is the way since at least Governor Thompson was there that these kinds of situations are handled at UW.

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So I want to be clear that there is nothing unusual about the approach to Mr. Rothman, the request.

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This is what the UW has done, including Mr. Rothman.

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He played this well. He knows we cannot miss close events that occurred in a closed session.

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He's using that to believe me. He's being quiet for a week.

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It's unnatural for me. I may have to be committed, but I have that quiet.

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I am 68 years old, never before, never have I been accused of not being direct, clear, and unambiguous.

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My reputation is that I am too much so.

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His claim that he does not or did not know as all of the substance of the shadow of a starving pigeon would repeat that.

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All of the substance of the shadow of a starving pigeon.

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In the beginning, his command and control management style and practices were necessary

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and beneficial to bring financial and operational discipline to an organization that needed it.

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No dispute on that. You all sit here. You've been looking at it longer than I have.

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I thank him for that. That is a service.

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Regarding other accomplishments, he is a bit like the rooster crawling and then taking credit for the sunrise after.

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The good things that were a massive team effort, not the accomplishments of one person.

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This is about the future. What kind of leadership is needed for the future?

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Let me just point out one sort of quasi-objective.

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US News and World Report does an annual review of the 50 top innovative universities in the United States regarding education, class size, all of that sort of thing.

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How we educate people at universities. It lists the top 50.

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Most of these lists don't think much of, and it's not that we're not number one.

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We're not even on the list of the top 50 innovative schools in the United States.

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Not even on the list. This is not a conservative liberal thing because our good friends and neighbors at Marquette University have made the list of the most innovative universities in the United States.

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So thank God one higher education institution in the state has made the list.

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There's at least one other one that should be on that.

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Change is not Mr. Rothman's strong suit. Yet change is what we desperately need.

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We need to be nimble. A major difference between Mr. Rothman and me was his lack of urgency, despite protestations to the contrary.

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It is his nature to be very deliberate. We don't have time to be very deliberate in the year 2026 in the sense that we can't take a year and six months to decide and think about every single issue.

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This is no different than moving on to a new quarterback no matter what you thought of the previous quarterback or what they did.

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We know how to do that in this state. That's functionally what we're doing forward. Thank you.

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Very good. I appreciate that testimony as well.

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And with that, I'm sure we'll have a few questions for you over the next few minutes.

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So we'll go ahead and open up the committee and go from there, Senator Larson.

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Thank you both for coming to testify on short notice.

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We are hearing after the legislature has adjourned.

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So we're coming back from vacation just to be able to talk to you guys to appreciate that.

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The specifics of what happened with President Rothman and the negotiations that happened in terms of his employment.

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It does happen in open session or where those being closed session.

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Those were in closed session and we had a lot of dialogue and this was never taken lightly.

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Again, we have a criteria duty to the University of Wisconsin and the people that it serves.

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This was not a light decision. We had many discussions in closed session regarding this issue.

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Let's counsel. What does the law say about leaking information that happens within a closed session in terms of employment?

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I have to research that. I'm not exactly sure in this case, but I can find out to you about this particular law in that area.

212
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:19,000
I can tell you what the open record is on. It says that I can tell you what the reading law is, but I don't know exactly what the nature of your question is.

213
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:34,000
I'm just curious if the Regents, as they're here before us, started to talk openly about things that happened in closed session with that open university up to legal liability.

214
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:41,000
I don't know what they know so possibly.

215
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,000
If there was them, that's a possibility for sure.

216
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:46,000
It is a possibility.

217
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,000
Sure.

218
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,000
Okay.

219
00:24:48,000 --> 00:25:03,000
So there is a possibility of a lawsuit if they violate the closed session understanding of what was discussed in a personal matter that is not public and the person is not waived there has not waived their confidentiality.

220
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:10,000
I'm not sure if I'm sure I have a question.

221
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:17,000
My last one to you is, did President Rothman ever threaten to resign?

222
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,000
Many times.

223
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:24,000
He had told us many times that if he did not have the confidence of the board, he would resign.

224
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,000
I think that was a public statement a few years ago.

225
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:32,000
I know he sold that to other constituencies as well.

226
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:37,000
Thank you.

227
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:44,000
I just want to make very clear that I'm not on vacation.

228
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:49,000
Even though that this has been viewed as coming back from vacation, I don't think that's the case.

229
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:56,000
I think that it's important that if any committee comes into this session here or is presented that, we come and we do what we've been elected to do.

230
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,000
So I don't got no tan going on, sir.

231
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,000
I'm still working.

232
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:09,000
My interest here is not only to question what happened, but my interest in it is not political.

233
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:15,000
It is solely because obviously there's an issue and I'm assuming it's not just about him.

234
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,000
It's about a larger picture here of things that need to be addressed.

235
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:24,000
So as I sat here today and have been looking at this over the news, my question is, okay, what's the issue?

236
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,000
Why is he not meeting those needs?

237
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:32,000
How are we going to fix this for the next person coming up or for the university as a whole?

238
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,000
In my mind, the one thing that pops in is decreased enrollment, right?

239
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:39,000
I'm sitting here and thinking, okay, maybe that's the issue.

240
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,000
Maybe they've lost confidence in the fact that there's decreased enrollment.

241
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,000
What is the solutions to that?

242
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,000
Or is there a different reason?

243
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:52,000
So as I heard a lot of people call me and contact me and hearing some comments today, this isn't just a political issue.

244
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:55,000
This is, in no way, in my opinion, the focus.

245
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,000
The focus is, what are the issues that need to be addressed?

246
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:03,000
How are they going to be solved and how can we continue to date the UW system great as a whole, right?

247
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:11,000
So for me, it is much bigger than what is being presented in this room right now in here today.

248
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:17,000
Thank you. Thank you for that question.

249
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,000
That was a part of my testimony.

250
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,000
I hadn't read because I didn't want to go to the rooms.

251
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,000
But you have asked, and I have an answer for you.

252
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,000
This is about the future, okay?

253
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:34,000
There are, I already gave you one question.

254
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:39,000
Why are not we one of the top innovative, at least in the top 50,

255
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:48,000
the Native schools in the United States, because we're not being innovative in the ways of dealing with the issues that you phrased.

256
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,000
The drop-offs.

257
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:56,000
Now, we've authorized 90 credit bachelor's degree.

258
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,000
We haven't seen any proposal yet.

259
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,000
We need to be talking about certificates.

260
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,000
We need to be talking about non-traditional students.

261
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:10,000
We need to be talking about educating people from kindergarten through their adult life,

262
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:15,000
not necessarily in the silos that have been built and existed historically.

263
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,000
That's a big hitch.

264
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:22,000
But let me give you a specific that has been bothering me.

265
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:31,000
Why does the University of Wisconsin system bureaucracy have 579 employees

266
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:39,000
for a 13-school system when the technical college has 50 for a 16-school system?

267
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,000
That's a great question, isn't it?

268
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:45,000
When I'm on the technical college board, by the way, they can use it for more people than those 50.

269
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,000
I just want to tell you the truth.

270
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,000
That's really the meaning for them.

271
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,000
I'm on both boards.

272
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:56,000
Since last November, I have, in particular, this has been my horse I've been riding,

273
00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,000
I have asked for justification.

274
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,000
I just don't see the difference.

275
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:08,000
When you look at other systems, they don't have this many people.

276
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:10,000
These people do good work.

277
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,000
I don't want to insinuate that they're lazy, that they're not doing good work.

278
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:25,000
But in my view, they are better off reassigned or the resources used at campuses where we actually educate people.

279
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:30,000
President Rothman has not provided an answer to me since November.

280
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:35,000
The only thing we've done is had a meeting where they all told us about all the good things they're doing.

281
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,000
Don't just speak there, but why 579?

282
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:40,000
Can't we cut that?

283
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,000
Maybe that's the right number.

284
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,000
Okay?

285
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,000
He's not justified to me.

286
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:54,000
But I think we ought to take some of those people and move them on campuses where we actually educate people.

287
00:29:54,000 --> 00:30:00,000
And he has not been on board with moving that along.

288
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,000
May I just get a little follow-up?

289
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,000
If you have an answer, I'm sorry.

290
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:12,000
Well, I was just going to say thank you for providing a specific example rather than some grey zone where we just kind of jump around the issue.

291
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:17,000
I mean, these are the things that, you know, thank you.

292
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,000
They scare me while you wait a time.

293
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:21,000
Go ahead.

294
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,000
Oh.

295
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,000
Would you like to comment to that?

296
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,000
Otherwise, I'd like to have another question.

297
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,000
My other question was you talked in here about him waving his rights for confidentiality and so forth.

298
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:39,000
I mean, is that some written agreement that was somewhere that both of you had signed upon employment or something that or in this particular situation?

299
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:48,000
I mean, if there's something that was really personal matters by law and definition are confidential.

300
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:52,000
And that's why we talk about personal matters because it was a little session.

301
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:57,000
And so it is not our ability to wave it and, you know, by some counsel as well.

302
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,000
We are not able to do that.

303
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,000
It is his to wave.

304
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,000
It's, you know, his confidentiality.

305
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:09,000
And he has to wave it before we're able to say something legally.

306
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:10,000
That's it.

307
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:11,000
Let me add that.

308
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,000
I want to emphasize.

309
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,000
This has been the UW practice.

310
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,000
At least as far back as Governor Thompson was president.

311
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,000
I'm not commenting on the wisdom of it.

312
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:35,000
I am merely stating that requesting people to leave their job under friendly, quiet circumstances is the way UW has been doing this and the way President Rothman actually did.

313
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:40,000
And again, if you want specific examples, I think somebody leaked the public record anyway.

314
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:47,000
Correspondents to Politico from Mr. James Larson about laying in.

315
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,000
Sorry.

316
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,000
I'm sorry.

317
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,000
I get a little happy.

318
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,000
I'm sorry.

319
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,000
I'm 68.

320
00:31:54,000 --> 00:32:04,000
That this is exactly the way President Rothman let him know with exactly the same no information response.

321
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:09,000
Now, this is I'm going to tell you, this is the way it has been done.

322
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,000
I'm not commenting on what I think of that.

323
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:15,000
I might have an opinion these days, but it's just the way UW did it.

324
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:22,000
And one other thing, as a lawyer, and you're getting me for free today like you do every day, so this is a really good deal for the state of Wisconsin.

325
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:37,000
When you have an at will or a probationary employee, the general recommendation is you never give them a reason for terminating the relationship.

326
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:41,000
Because all that would do is raise the potential for a lawsuit.

327
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,000
At will, you just let them know.

328
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:54,000
The probationary, you just let them know because if you tell them anything and we all know how lawsuits work, truth, no truth, it doesn't much matter.

329
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:55,000
There are lawsuits.

330
00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:02,000
You don't do this even in the private sector with those two kinds of employees tonight, the lawyer, I apologize.

331
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,000
So this is the advice I would have given my own clients.

332
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:16,000
In addition for large corporations that are very public, this is the way you usually get out CEOs.

333
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:22,000
Because you don't want to damage, in that case the brand, whatever you're selling.

334
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:27,000
So you try not to have these public blowups.

335
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:33,000
And so there's nothing here in my mind from my experience that's unusual.

336
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,000
And that way that follows UW practice.

337
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:42,000
Now whether that practice is appropriate for a public institution, I'm not commenting about that.

338
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,000
I am merely reporting a fact.

339
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,000
I appreciate the testimony.

340
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,000
So you can reach an exit regarding that.

341
00:33:52,000 --> 00:34:07,000
It is a little surprising to me admittedly to hear from the Board of Regents who are eagerly, eagerly pushing for significant reforms of the system.

342
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:17,000
Because I would argue going back for a few years, the Regents have been viewed as the gatekeepers for the status quo.

343
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:29,000
So if you're telling me there's a new revelation within the Board of Regents that says the President isn't acting quick enough in terms of significant reforms and efficiencies.

344
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,000
That is a surprising be encouraging.

345
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:41,000
I would love to hear a little bit more context as to how that is the new face of the Regents that somehow in this case,

346
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:55,000
then President Rothman wasn't on board with or keeping pace with in terms of the reforms that either you all were pushing or are pushing or that you expected than President Rothman to be pushing.

347
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,000
The short answer is yes.

348
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,000
Now let me just provide a little color to that.

349
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,000
President Rothman moves methodically.

350
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,000
He moves deliberately.

351
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,000
And part of that is he's a corporate lawyer, hopefully.

352
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,000
They just do that.

353
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,000
I'm a lawyer.

354
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,000
Okay, so I know how they understand the thought process.

355
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,000
You don't move until every eye is dotted.

356
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,000
You don't move until every T is crossed.

357
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:22,000
You don't move until everybody's lined up.

358
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:26,000
That takes six months to a year to do that in anything.

359
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:34,000
The major difference between President Rothman and I, and even after everything that's happened, I still like the guy.

360
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,000
Okay, let's just, let's just be blunt about that.

361
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:49,000
They do not dislike him, is I always sensed a lack of urgency on some of these issues, which to me looked like they're pressing on these universities today.

362
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:55,000
And an answer a year from now or two years from now is not going to be good enough.

363
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:08,000
President Rothman never, to his credit, doesn't want to upset either the legislature, the governor, or the faculty or anybody else.

364
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:13,000
Sometimes when you're changing things, that's kind of a necessity.

365
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,000
I mean, I don't want to back you guys off.

366
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,000
I've got an administrative law for you.

367
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,000
I've taught him administrative law for 23 years.

368
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:29,000
One of the things I've told, and I've repeated, even said this is the part of the region several times, we are not elected officials.

369
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,000
You are the elected officials.

370
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,000
The governor is the elected official.

371
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:38,000
We do our job, but we do it subject to your oversight and direction.

372
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,000
Act 15 is a good example.

373
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,000
You saw that we followed the law.

374
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:48,000
I quote you what I said to people who were not as happy as they could be.

375
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:54,000
I said this is a law passed by a Republican legislature signed by a Democratic governor.

376
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,000
This is the law.

377
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,000
And we don't care if you like it or not.

378
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:00,000
Okay?

379
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:05,000
That's pretty relevant to us and that was directed at certain people in the university who thought it was inappropriate.

380
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:14,000
In my point of question, I just want to add to that.

381
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:17,000
I just wanted to be clear.

382
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:23,000
Mr. Rothman, we are very pleased in what he has done to this moment.

383
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:31,000
There are many difficult things that we went through as a board and we were aligned with Mr. Rothman, many difficult things.

384
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:37,000
Change happens at a snail's pace in any institution.

385
00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:42,000
Unfortunately, the industry of higher education is a very antiquated system.

386
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:47,000
Working within those systems is very difficult to make change.

387
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:51,000
And I think right now we're kind of at a precipice in higher education.

388
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:56,000
You mentioned a demographic slide and the pressures are coming down hard on us.

389
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,000
This narrative that higher education wasn't necessary.

390
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:09,000
Part of this decision is that we need a transformative leader and that we have to really take this into the future, which is to me yesterday.

391
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,000
I mean, we have pressures of AI.

392
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:22,000
You know, this narrative that I don't know, I probably didn't get my statistics wrong, but 76% of the public doesn't want AI either terrified.

393
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:26,000
Even now, more than ever, we need people in our institutions.

394
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:35,000
We need people that have critical thinking skills that understand AI because we as humans need to control the machine, not the other way around.

395
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:45,000
So there's many pressures that we are feeling as a board, as an institution where we like to have and work well together with that leader that can bring us into the future.

396
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,000
And I do not want to diminish all the wonderful things that Mr. Rothman has done.

397
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:54,000
And he has done in great services, any overseas responses.

398
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:59,000
So I do not want that to be our thought process here.

399
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,000
That's not what it is.

400
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:10,000
Mr. Chair, I would like, I had removed a number of my remarks, but in light of the senator's question, I want to bring up another one.

401
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:17,000
There is no Regents guidelines or guardrails on AI.

402
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:27,000
AI is a lot of smoke and noise and good things in the universities, but there are no guidelines or guardrails.

403
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:32,000
President Rothman has blocked those since November, and this is another one of my resources.

404
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,000
We've got to speak. We've got to say something.

405
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:49,000
We need an articulated Wisconsin Board of Regents Wisconsin AI guidelines not uncrafted by Silicon Valley through negligence or neglect.

406
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,000
We need to do this the Wisconsin way.

407
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,000
And this has not been brought to us.

408
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,000
We've been asking for it since November.

409
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:03,000
We're studying it. We've got lots of committees in that system studying it, and they're not going to be a job.

410
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,000
Just will not bring it forward to us.

411
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:16,000
But overall, I do also want to add that I'm very proud of our individual universities who do have wonderful policies and guidelines for their campuses.

412
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:22,000
They're doing amazing work on the campuses, so I don't want to lose sight of that.

413
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:27,000
Thank you. Appreciate the digital information, Sir Pat.

414
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:35,000
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you both for being here. Mr. Davidson, thank you for your openness and your candor.

415
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:42,000
I appreciate it because you talked about hobby horses.

416
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:49,000
This is something that I believe, I didn't know the exact number, but at $5.79 now I know the number.

417
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,000
I really do believe that there can be reform done.

418
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:57,000
And I strongly support not just our playing right university.

419
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:01,000
We've had some very proud regional comprehensors that we have.

420
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:10,000
So I look forward to continuing to work with you and the Regent President in regards to moving forward on this.

421
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:17,000
But my follow-up question is to the Board President.

422
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,000
Thank you for your testimony.

423
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,000
And I appreciate your candor.

424
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,000
But you write this.

425
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:35,000
If Mr. Walkman generally wants his committee in the public to understand what happened, there is a straightforward path.

426
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,000
He can waive his confidential housing.

427
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,000
Absolutely.

428
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,000
Why hasn't he done that?

429
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,000
He seems to be talking a lot.

430
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:48,000
Why does he not waive his confidential?

431
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:55,000
I believe that his objective is to be able to get his narrative out and be one-sided.

432
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,000
He knows that I cannot reflect what he's saying.

433
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,000
He knows, and he does know the truth.

434
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:05,000
He knows the truth, and he understands what this is all about.

435
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:11,000
And we were hoping that he would move on and we could celebrate all his great accomplishments.

436
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:16,000
That I think was going to be the best path forward for the universities.

437
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:24,000
And to do the media circuit that he's on, denigrates our wonderful universities.

438
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:26,000
And that makes me really sad.

439
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:30,000
Because I know that he worked tirelessly for the universities.

440
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:37,000
And I really was hoping to celebrate his past accomplishments and keep that stability.

441
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,000
It was so needed for the universities.

442
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:45,000
And to celebrate him and the campuses and all the hard work that these people come to work

443
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:46,000
every day.

444
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,000
We're here for the students.

445
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,000
We're here for the people that we serve, the students in the states.

446
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:57,000
And it's unfortunate that he's taking them down.

447
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,000
One follow-up question.

448
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,000
I read in the news media that

449
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:11,000
was given an opportunity to retire at the end of this calendar year.

450
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:12,000
Is that correct?

451
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:16,000
He was given an opportunity to resign at the end of the year.

452
00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:25,000
And it was a nice runway for him to be able to go out, finish a few loose ends, and celebrate him,

453
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:32,000
and visit all the campuses and celebrate the fact that he has accomplished many things in his tenure.

454
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:39,000
I mean, if you look around this country, these jobs right now are so difficult.

455
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,000
They don't have a long shelf life.

456
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:46,000
Things are moving so quickly and so fast we have to be humble.

457
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:54,000
And so I wanted to give him that opportunity and have him be able to celebrate and the board

458
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,000
to stay steady and focused on what comes next.

459
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:01,000
So he chose not to do that.

460
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:05,000
You know what I would say.

461
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:10,000
Just so you don't think that we would walk in the box, that would do whatever.

462
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,000
I was not in favor of the 18 months.

463
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,000
I would not in favor of law.

464
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:18,000
I was in favor of a runway, but not that long.

465
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:23,000
However, this is our president, and she made that decision, and that's what we went with.

466
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,000
I thought that was too long.

467
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,000
And then I went up here.

468
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:33,000
I've also heard, I don't know where I heard her, right, that there has been a six month

469
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,000
service package that's been approved.

470
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:38,000
Correct.

471
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:40,000
That's from his contract.

472
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,000
That's from the contract.

473
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:48,000
Can we just talk about the contract for a little bit?

474
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:54,000
I find it interesting I see this somewhat tongue in cheek, but also somewhat genuinely

475
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,000
when I look at employment contracts today.

476
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:04,000
The fact that I see a contract that is any less than 20 pages seems quite unusual in

477
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:09,000
the world that we now live in, and I appreciate all the role that you'll play in that.

478
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:17,000
It did seem a little odd that the contract, at least we've provided to us, is as thin as

479
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,000
it is as it relates to the use of paper.

480
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:26,000
And curious as to what's behind that, why that would be the case.

481
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:33,000
Is there other contractual information that is an aside from that four page document?

482
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:38,000
And should a little insight, based on the fact that you are both attorneys, and in this

483
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:43,000
case, it is a personal matter that Jim Rothman would have been putting in that position

484
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,000
with that narrow of a contract.

485
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,000
And would we do that again?

486
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:50,000
Was that done intentionally?

487
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,000
If you could just shed a little bit of perspective on that?

488
00:45:53,000 --> 00:46:01,000
I can start, and I'm sure Mr. Nixon can't follow up, but I can tell you that the negotiations

489
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,000
for the contract is very, that contract is standard.

490
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,000
It's been used in the past over and over again, being at will.

491
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:11,000
And I think I might be wrong, but maybe you can be on this.

492
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:18,000
I think the sixth month is by statute that you have to give an employee, and there's

493
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:23,000
something else in there for every sign, it's a 90 day, that's all standard.

494
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:31,000
And so it isn't light, but again, Mr. Rothman, his whole attorney light was a transactional

495
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:32,000
attorney.

496
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:37,000
So he reviewed the contract, and he had made no changes to the contract.

497
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,000
And again, this was used for all the prior presidents.

498
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,000
I don't know how far back it goes, but absolutely.

499
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:50,000
I think it's perhaps a time to look at the contract that's been used over and over again.

500
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:55,000
But again, Mr. Rothman accepted it without any changes, and being a transactional attorney

501
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,000
had every opportunity to do so.

502
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,000
Sure.

503
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:05,000
Yeah, I didn't see it a little bit ago, I was on the board with the contract.

504
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:10,000
I was talking about what you did, I was astounded at the contract.

505
00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:15,000
But I will go back, Jay Rothman is an intelligent man and a good lawyer.

506
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,000
Let's talk like that.

507
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,000
And he's representing himself there.

508
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:24,000
Quite frankly, if I were his lawyer, and I were different, I might have had different

509
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,000
ideas if I were advising him on that contract.

510
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,000
But he is who he is, he chose to sign it.

511
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:35,000
And if we struggle with that, then you say that we want to sign the other contract.

512
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:36,000
That's not fair.

513
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:41,000
But I even advised him not to sign that contract as the president.

514
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,000
But he is acting as his own lawyer.

515
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,000
And he's a good lawyer.

516
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:45,000
He's a good lawyer.

517
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,000
He's a good lawyer.

518
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:47,000
He's no doubt.

519
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:48,000
All right.

520
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:49,000
Thank you.

521
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:50,000
I'm probably prescriptive.

522
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:52,000
Is there any other questions?

523
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:53,000
Thank you.

524
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:58,000
And just to be clear, we're back in here taking up the Board of Regents appointments.

525
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:05,000
While there are over 100 other appointments that are outstanding for the Senate that have

526
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:08,000
not been taken up for a full vote, the Senate adjourned.

527
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:13,000
At the end of that, I know in my district, they're struggling with affordability of trying

528
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,000
to adjust me against meat.

529
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:18,000
Housing has not been addressed in any way, shape or form.

530
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,000
We didn't do anything on data centers.

531
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,000
And so it's the Wild West.

532
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,000
Our tech companies are going at it.

533
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:29,000
And the community is going to be able to get what they want with no repercussions.

534
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:34,000
We haven't done anything on the water law to make sure that we have clean water in our

535
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,000
state.

536
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:36,000
So this goes on.

537
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,000
Is there a question to determine this?

538
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,000
Yeah.

539
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,000
Just then we decided that this was it.

540
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,000
That this was a thing to say, let's snap our fingers.

541
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:51,000
Let's come back in because we want to drag a few appointments in front of us to score

542
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,000
political points.

543
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,000
This seems exactly what it is.

544
00:48:55,000 --> 00:49:00,000
And frankly, I've been here for 15 years fighting for our universities.

545
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:06,000
I was here when Governor tried to repeal the Wisconsin idea and stated we're going to

546
00:49:06,000 --> 00:49:11,000
shift from the search for truth and say that the borders of our universities end and the

547
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:16,000
borders of the state and saying that we are here for the enrichment of all.

548
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:21,000
Instead, say we're going to focus on workforce development and people turn out and say that

549
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:22,000
that's not what they want.

550
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,000
We've seen the degradation of the university.

551
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,000
We've seen the cutting of funds.

552
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:32,000
We've seen the forcing of tuition and freezes that are unfunded from the state.

553
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:37,000
So therefore, the product that is turned out is less than it was for students today than

554
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:38,000
it was a decade ago.

555
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:40,000
And I have been fighting for that.

556
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:46,000
And I find it curious that now we're coming in to deal with this.

557
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:50,000
In sports, we would call this a flock.

558
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:59,000
If you know the term, which is that somebody is reacting very bigly of, oh my gosh, I've

559
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,000
got followed.

560
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,000
And they're looking for a reaction.

561
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:03,000
They're looking for a follow.

562
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:10,000
And it seems that the refs have called in and said and are saying, okay, it was a loan.

563
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,000
We've got something here and now we're drawing it because of this flock.

564
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:21,000
Because the president is protesting and saying that, you know, I am unclear as to what was

565
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:26,000
going on and that somehow in all of these close sessions, no direction was.

566
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:32,000
He's claiming no direction was given, no criticism was given, and that nothing, you know, would

567
00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,000
have led him to believe that this was ever an option.

568
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:41,000
And the other side is unable to respond to that because he has not waived his confidentiality

569
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:45,000
agreement in a personnel matter.

570
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,000
And that is the only way to go back to the sports metaphor that we can actually check

571
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:53,000
the tape, Mr. Chairman, is for him to waive his confidentiality agreement.

572
00:50:53,000 --> 00:51:02,000
So then we can check the figurative tape and see what was actually put before him.

573
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:10,000
For what his guidance was and where that may have varied along the way in those performance

574
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,000
reviews.

575
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,000
He has not done that.

576
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:19,000
And until that happens, we are only here in one side of this where we're seeing the athlete

577
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,000
who was waving his arms and saying that this was a huge problem.

578
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,000
And we can clarify that.

579
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,000
And until that happens, I don't know.

580
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:27,000
We don't know.

581
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,000
You don't know.

582
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:34,000
Maybe, you know, we don't know exactly what the terms of agreements were that were violated,

583
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,000
all we can do is speculate.

584
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:45,000
And frankly, I personally, given what is happening within our universities, given I have a campus

585
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:51,000
in my district, and I talk to my students, I talk to my faculty, I talk to the neighbors,

586
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,000
and they were not thrilled.

587
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,000
They were not thrilled with the direction of what the president was doing.

588
00:51:55,000 --> 00:52:03,000
And I have not seen many tears shed in leaving the teachers' union AFT put out a statement

589
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:07,000
saying that they were frustrated with some of his decisions.

590
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:13,000
I've heard from students who were very frustrated with the attacks on diversity, equity, and

591
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:19,000
inclusion, which matters in my district and my campus because it is the most diverse campus

592
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:20,000
in the state.

593
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:28,000
Those issues, I have not heard him addressing, and those were a giant area of criticism.

594
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:37,000
So if we are going to get back, Mr. Chairman, to what the Wisconsin idea is, which is the

595
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:43,000
search for the truth, the only way that we can actually get to that is if the president

596
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:44,000
waves this confidentiality.

597
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:50,000
Otherwise, we are standing up for something that we have no idea what it was.

598
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,000
And there could be things beyond that.

599
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:59,000
My mind wanders to reasons other folks have been dismissed, and we are getting large public

600
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:00,000
attention for it.

601
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:04,000
We don't know what we are wandering into, and that is the decision that we are coming back

602
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:05,000
into.

603
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:10,000
We are coming back out of session instead of addressing all of those other issues.

604
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:15,000
And frankly, not addressing what the universities are supposed to be doing for our students

605
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:16,000
and for the state.

606
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:19,000
And we are talking about one person.

607
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,000
The universities are bigger than one person.

608
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:31,000
And so I would ask, you know, do you, what do you view your service as, as regents?

609
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:35,000
Because I was surprised to find out what your compensation was.

610
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,000
For this goal, for your public service.

611
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:42,000
And what do you believe the goal of your service as regents are?

612
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:46,000
Because I believe this is up for your appointment.

613
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,000
Why do you want to serve on the Board of Regents?

614
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,000
If you are still here.

615
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,000
Thank you, Senator Anderson.

616
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,000
We are actually here to ask you to double our salary.

617
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,000
Which is?

618
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:00,000
Zero.

619
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,000
I appreciate all that.

620
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:08,000
And I see this as a distraction from the excellent work that we are all doing.

621
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:14,000
I would love to be here celebrating the amazing budget that Governor Evers and your leadership,

622
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,000
the Republicans have worked tirelessly to get to us.

623
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,000
I mean, it was amazing that we worked together on that.

624
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:25,000
And I know I had a really nice conversation with you, Senator Cotton over the weekend.

625
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:32,000
And my desire is that we continue forging ahead to work hard to give the state what it so deserves.

626
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:39,000
I always have wanted to work with all sides, both sides, sorry, both sides, the governor,

627
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:42,000
and move ahead to what the state needs.

628
00:54:42,000 --> 00:54:46,000
I mean, we have great needs as you said, Senator Cotton.

629
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:48,000
The work forces is dying.

630
00:54:48,000 --> 00:54:50,000
The needs are great.

631
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:55,000
Business leaders, both sides of the aisle, they appreciate and respect the universities

632
00:54:55,000 --> 00:54:57,000
and what they are trying to accomplish.

633
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:58,000
I serve.

634
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:01,000
I am so privileged to serve.

635
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:08,000
And would like to continue to serve to really help work together to bring in the needs to this state.

636
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,000
I love Wisconsin.

637
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:16,000
My grandparents came here as refugees and could not believe their crazy love.

638
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:18,000
They got to live here.

639
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,000
And I want us to flourish together.

640
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:24,000
The divisiveness really breaks my heart.

641
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:29,000
We are a board of 18 independent individuals no matter what the press says about us.

642
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:35,000
We all have our own thoughts, but the one thought that I think everyone in this world can agree to,

643
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:39,000
the University of Wisconsin is the crown jewel for this state.

644
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:44,000
I'm sure many of you have educated some, have taught at the University of Wisconsin.

645
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,000
We cherish it.

646
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:52,000
And for anything to come between that, to not get to distract it, is really a shame.

647
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:53,000
It is a distraction.

648
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:56,000
So I know that we continue this work together.

649
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,000
That is my hope for the board.

650
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,000
It's my hope for myself.

651
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:04,000
Believe me, this is not an easy thing to do as a volunteer with my time.

652
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:06,000
I have a law practice.

653
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:14,000
It's very difficult, but it's worth every minute for this investment into the future of our state.

654
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:17,000
I mean, it's the economic engagement of our state.

655
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:19,000
So why not all work together?

656
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:21,000
What's best for everybody?

657
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:25,000
And to get our students, and not just your typical students.

658
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:29,000
We have over 800, I think we talked about this last time in our hunt.

659
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:33,000
We have somewhere around, and Governor Thompson has spoken about this,

660
00:56:33,000 --> 00:56:38,000
over 800,000 students that they have dropped out.

661
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:40,000
They have a lot of credits there.

662
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:45,000
Love to get them back into our universities to help out, whether it's with a certificate,

663
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:51,000
some of our campuses, some way to up their workforce and get them in their veterans.

664
00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:52,000
Love more veterans.

665
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:58,000
There's many people of all different walks of life that would really have a wonderful opportunity

666
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,000
right here in their own backyard in all of your districts.

667
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:06,000
So for me to serve on this board is the privilege of lifetime.

668
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:10,000
But I am so looking forward to cut the divisiveness and work together.

669
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,000
We all want the same thing.

670
00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:13,000
So let's do it.

671
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,000
And let's not have this be the disruption.

672
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:19,000
So I appreciate that question.

673
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:20,000
Thank you.

674
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:24,000
If I may, I want you to know that there are two of us here.

675
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:27,000
The meeting was called on 48 hours notice.

676
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:29,000
I've been waiting two years.

677
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:30,000
She's been waiting.

678
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:31,000
Six.

679
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:32,000
Six years.

680
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:33,000
Okay.

681
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,000
So not everybody could come on two days notice.

682
00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:37,000
All right.

683
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:39,000
These are real things.

684
00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:43,000
We have lives, families and jobs.

685
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:44,000
Okay.

686
00:57:44,000 --> 00:57:47,000
So just pick up and move on two days.

687
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,000
That's very hard.

688
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:51,000
The region job.

689
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,000
I don't know why anybody wouldn't want it.

690
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:55,000
You don't get paid.

691
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:59,000
Next week I spent five days in Eau Claire.

692
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,000
Five entire days in Eau Claire.

693
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:07,000
Last week I spent two days reviewing orders from the student discipline committee of which

694
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:12,000
I am the chair because I want to make sure the students are fairly heard.

695
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,000
I spent two days doing that.

696
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:16,000
You don't get paid for it.

697
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:17,000
However, what do you get?

698
00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:22,000
Well, the number of regions have had their houses vandalized in Madison and Milwaukee.

699
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:23,000
You get that.

700
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:24,000
You get protests.

701
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:25,000
I'm surprised.

702
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:26,000
We have meetings.

703
00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:32,000
We have a lot of jobs and police doing checks to make sure nobody wants to do a sin because

704
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:33,000
some people do.

705
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:34,000
And it was last fall.

706
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:39,000
I think the guy said he was going to show up at two o'clock in the afternoon with a rifle

707
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:40,000
and shoot us.

708
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,000
So I don't know why anybody wouldn't want this job.

709
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:48,000
Appreciate the comments from our two guests.

710
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:54,000
I would take a little bit of exception in terms of the divisiveness for which we are operating.

711
00:58:55,000 --> 00:59:01,000
You should do it on behalf of the state of Wisconsin certainly taxpayers to be engaged

712
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:07,000
in the knowledgeable and to be able to ascertain decisions that are made within our agencies.

713
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:11,000
That's certainly why we're here today is to ask the questions and to gather as much information

714
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:18,000
as we can so we have a liable answer for the decisions made right or wrong or different.

715
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,000
But that's what we're here and called to do.

716
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:31,000
I would say to my colleague Sarah Larson that of all the reforms that we've worked on over

717
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:36,000
the last year and a half, I don't recall your name being on too many of those reforms in

718
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:39,000
terms of transforming what needs to happen at UW.

719
00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:45,000
And yet I'm hearing from our two Regents who have done it today that we need significant

720
00:59:45,000 --> 00:59:50,000
reforms within our UW system structurally and otherwise.

721
00:59:50,000 --> 00:59:59,000
And I think that leads into my question with you to represent the Regents here this afternoon.

722
00:59:59,000 --> 01:00:07,000
Can you help maybe all of us in general understand the relationship between the Regents and

723
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:14,000
the President in terms of the reforms that

724
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:23,000
Regent Nixon used more so alluded to but Madam Chair you have as well that are just

725
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,000
nibbling around the edges.

726
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:32,000
They're significant in terms of what we say needs to be happening within UW to at minimum

727
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:36,000
keep pace with where we're going as a

728
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:40,000
well-weather institution in our state and in our engine in our state.

729
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:48,000
So in the dynamics between the administration and I'll throw the Governor's office in that

730
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:57,000
mix the President of the systems and the Regents just from an outside perspective where and

731
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:05,000
who and how do those initiatives in this case significant reforms land on the table and

732
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:13,000
where the driving forces as to what those reforms should be what reform should be prioritized

733
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:22,000
and who's going to take the ball in one of those reforms to ensure that those actually happen.

734
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:25,000
Senator that is the question.

735
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:29,000
Let me go back to what I see the initiatives.

736
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:34,000
We are 18 people doing their very best as volunteers.

737
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:43,000
But we functionally are captains of the UW system administration and the President because

738
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:49,000
we can ask for things but we can't necessarily write them or do them or move them along.

739
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:53,000
They move them along or not move them along.

740
01:01:53,000 --> 01:02:00,000
And I'm going to give you a couple examples of things that haven't moved along despite multiple requests.

741
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:08,000
I think if the President will often hear what he would say, well the board hasn't as a whole told me what it's wanted.

742
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:15,000
It's 18 people that meet six times a year together, six times eight times a year,

743
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:20,000
and that we do things otherwise but we are not the full-time professionals.

744
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:27,000
Unfortunately this would be like you taking instruction from the Secretary of the Department of Administration.

745
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:33,000
Okay, think about that for a second. Nothing against the Secretary of the Department of Administration.

746
01:02:33,000 --> 01:02:41,000
It makes it very hard. That's why the relationship between the President and the board has to be one of trust,

747
01:02:41,000 --> 01:02:46,000
confidence and being able to work together and not believing that there are any issues.

748
01:02:46,000 --> 01:02:53,000
Because we are the captive of the people that were supposed to be looking at.

749
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:57,000
And we would hope in the next President that we kind of addressed that.

750
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:03,000
Doesn't it, Rothman has a command and control kind of management style,

751
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:08,000
which was necessary and useful to get the budgets balanced and all that stuff.

752
01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:12,000
Wouldn't have happened without somebody with that stuff.

753
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:14,000
Okay, would not have happened.

754
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,000
But now we tend to need something else.

755
01:03:17,000 --> 01:03:25,000
We need to be able to work with and not just sort of be hanging out here without the support of that administration,

756
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:30,000
which is very large. I think they've got some kind of to do stuff for us, but you think not.

757
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:38,000
So you mentioned the AI briefly in terms of where the system currently sits with AI and some of the reluctance to continue to on that path.

758
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:44,000
Can you name four or five other initiatives that President Rothman was,

759
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:55,000
more of a gatekeeper of the status quo and either rejected or was not on board in moving some of those reforms through the system?

760
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,000
Good thing.

761
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:04,000
Here's one of the things I like to say. Everybody's in favor of change. Just nobody wants to do it.

762
01:04:04,000 --> 01:04:07,000
But President Rothman was always concerned about it.

763
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:12,000
And this is legitimate. He goes, you know, this is the University of Wisconsin.

764
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:17,000
Change isn't necessarily welcome in here. He was always concerned.

765
01:04:17,000 --> 01:04:23,000
And he told me he didn't like what I set out loud because it would alarm people.

766
01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,000
Okay, my view would be should be loud.

767
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:32,000
But he didn't like what I would say a lot about things because it would agitate the staff or the faculty or the students

768
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:37,000
because it wasn't fully taught out. So in general, we talked about a lot of these things.

769
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:42,000
We've talked about this stuff. We've talked about certificates. We talked about faculty pay.

770
01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:46,000
We've talked about campuses. We've talked about program already.

771
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:52,000
Okay, but everything moves in my view that he would disagree with me.

772
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:54,000
Fairness to him. He would disagree with me.

773
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:58,000
But in my view, everything moves a little too methodically.

774
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:04,000
And admittedly, I'm in the patient curses. I was once tested for patients and I tested negative.

775
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:11,000
All right, so, but if we've got to move and starting to move is the first thing,

776
01:05:11,000 --> 01:05:15,000
if he's generally speaking, except for the things, and we did agree a lot of things.

777
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:21,000
We put at 15 in the place. We, the regions before I got on, agreed with the, the idea,

778
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:27,000
one of the things I talked to him about was, is this system complying with that deal?

779
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:31,000
Whatever you might think of it. It was an agreement. It really had taking agreements.

780
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:35,000
And we talked about it in a lot of those terms. So there was a lot of support.

781
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:40,000
Don't get me wrong. This is not like, oh my God, everything is wrong. I'm not saying that.

782
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:44,000
But I'm saying for innovation and movement forward,

783
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:52,000
feet and the system are not designed to really move quickly.

784
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:57,000
And, but on the other hand, what organization is, state government, the Pentagon?

785
01:05:57,000 --> 01:05:58,000
Let's be fair.

786
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:04,000
Let me just add to that too. And to be fair, this is a moment of transformation,

787
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:11,000
but I can tell you that the system and the people of the ecosystem, we put more of the campuses.

788
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:21,000
At 15 was a lot of work. It took a lot of time and a lot of buy-in from the campuses.

789
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:27,000
And I give them all so much credit for working together to get what they had to get done.

790
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:35,000
But it really sort of prevented us at the moment for, it's a way to move forward, but it was all hands on deck.

791
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:42,000
And, you know, now that we're kind of past that, it is a moment in time that we must move forward.

792
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:47,000
And it's not necessarily looking backwards to what we could have been doing.

793
01:06:47,000 --> 01:06:50,000
In these days, we've gotten a lot of big things accomplished.

794
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:55,000
We have a great budget that we're working with. We got Act 15 done.

795
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:59,000
We were trying our very best to make sure all campuses are confined.

796
01:06:59,000 --> 01:07:03,000
It was a heavy lift. And people worked tirelessly.

797
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:07,000
I mean, 60, 70 hours of work to make sure that we're in compliance.

798
01:07:07,000 --> 01:07:14,000
And they're still very much worried. They want to make sure that all the eyes are dyed and the teasers are crossed.

799
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:20,000
As we look there, we're also looking forward to move ahead and in sync with the next leader,

800
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:27,000
that the board and that leader, not a silver of light, I think I'm quoting a past present, will get between us.

801
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:34,000
And that's what we need, because it is a difficult place to get changed as we all know.

802
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:41,000
We think that we've got a clear week and then we're throwing something, whether it's from the federal government

803
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:47,000
or something that we've got to accomplish. All hands on deck, okay, we'll put this over here.

804
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:56,000
But little by little, we're getting there and we're hoping that the next leader can really be transformative, energetic

805
01:07:56,000 --> 01:08:01,000
and work with the board closely so we can accomplish more.

806
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:02,000
Thank you.

807
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:12,000
In August, I don't know that I heard the four or five other areas that President Rothman was the gamekeeper of

808
01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:19,000
and I think some additional detail that would be helpful if it's available before we go to.

809
01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,000
Sir, come up with a real quick question.

810
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:25,000
President Roth, was the gatekeeper a lot of things?

811
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:31,000
We did not like it when we talked to individual legislators and we had to report every time we talked to one of them,

812
01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:37,000
but we said, I'm not a big fan of that. Maybe I did, maybe I kind of didn't.

813
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:42,000
In fairness to him, Act 15 did block everything out for about a year.

814
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:46,000
But what do we need to talk about? Here are other things we need to talk about.

815
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:49,000
And we haven't even gotten them on the list.

816
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:51,000
Well, they're concerned about dormitories.

817
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,000
Well, should we have dormitories?

818
01:08:53,000 --> 01:08:56,000
Should dormitories be public? Should dormitories be private?

819
01:08:56,000 --> 01:08:57,000
Should they be whatever?

820
01:08:57,000 --> 01:09:03,000
So things can be, we didn't even get to talk about those things because they have considered third rail.

821
01:09:03,000 --> 01:09:07,000
And quite frankly, they are third rail.

822
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:10,000
This is an example.

823
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:13,000
Their AI is third rail.

824
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:19,000
We've already read, yes, I read that book how to overcome your shyness.

825
01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:23,000
And I'm willing to grab the third rail.

826
01:09:23,000 --> 01:09:27,000
President Roth was just less likely to do that than any number of things.

827
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:30,000
He and I talked a lot as you might guess.

828
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:33,000
And I don't dislike him.

829
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:42,000
We just didn't see eye to eye on the speed of which you could move and any of the topics you could, in fact, move on.

830
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,000
We didn't want to upset the end.

831
01:09:44,000 --> 01:09:46,000
Projectively, the end currently needs much better.

832
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:49,000
Senator R. C. G.

833
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:52,000
I have two questions here.

834
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:55,000
I'll let you call for it. Maybe you could help me out with this one.

835
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:58,000
And again, I like the detail.

836
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,000
I guess I'm stuck on it's him.

837
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:01,000
It's them.

838
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,000
Level by. I don't like that.

839
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:04,000
Right? I just bet.

840
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:09,000
So if this board actually met in closed session,

841
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:18,000
would Rothman be actually able to weigh confidentiality if he was in a closed session?

842
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:23,000
Is that possible if you're in a closed session? Can he do that?

843
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:25,000
Would he be able to do that?

844
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:29,000
Would he know facts from that closed session to be able to weight that?

845
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:36,000
I think he could communicate his own issues that he was discussing in the closed session.

846
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,000
He could disclose what he actually said and did.

847
01:10:39,000 --> 01:10:46,000
But not what anybody else said or did or be able to say any sort of concerns that they had about him.

848
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,000
If it was in closed session.

849
01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:57,000
Has it seemed, since I don't know, that the communications will really hesitate to venture?

850
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:00,000
It's a gray zone again, if we don't.

851
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:11,000
He has reasons that he can come up and say that he personally intends for reasons to come up in this circumstance.

852
01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:13,000
I'll proceed with your reasons for me.

853
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:14,000
Gotcha.

854
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:15,000
Can I?

855
01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:16,000
I'm sure you can.

856
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:17,000
Okay.

857
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:21,000
Possibly my last question that I would have here is, again, black and white.

858
01:11:21,000 --> 01:11:22,000
I just like facts.

859
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:25,000
I kind of appreciate your style here.

860
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:29,000
I don't know if I'm as abrupt as you, but...

861
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:32,000
And I appreciate it, right?

862
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:35,000
But when we don't have facts, we get assumptions.

863
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:40,000
And very rarely do we assume those assumptions are in the positive, right?

864
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,000
They're usually in the negative.

865
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:51,000
I mean, sitting here and reading your non-verbals, girl, Fred, and I'm not taking them as the reading of the positive, okay?

866
01:11:52,000 --> 01:11:59,000
Now we have our UW president who got booted, and we have our chancellor who's leaving.

867
01:11:59,000 --> 01:12:09,000
When we think about what the general population in our country and the other universities are assuming because they don't have facts, I'm going to assume it's not in the positive.

868
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,000
Maybe I'm wrong.

869
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:20,000
But again, my intention is, what are the facts so that it can be clear so that people are not making negative assumptions about our flagship here?

870
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:25,000
And the Regents and the University as a whole.

871
01:12:25,000 --> 01:12:30,000
Just something upon your, and consider, how does that look to the general folk?

872
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:40,000
In my opinion, it doesn't look good in the assumptions that I'm developing in my own little mind here because I have no facts, except for what you have provided.

873
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:43,000
Thank you for that.

874
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:53,000
As far as the UW Madison, maybe if I had a question on it, UW Madison Chancellor is leaving to take a position at home university.

875
01:12:53,000 --> 01:12:57,000
She has left the flagship better than when she found it.

876
01:12:57,000 --> 01:13:07,000
I have no doubts that when we begin the search, which we begin shortly, we will find an excellent leader for a flagship, which is key.

877
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:11,000
Our flagship is really the crown jewel.

878
01:13:11,000 --> 01:13:14,000
And we take that doing very serious.

879
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:19,000
And I think that her leaving, and I think we will find many good people.

880
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:24,000
I mean, look at she's going to the top one, the top ideally leaves in our country.

881
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:28,000
And I think she's done so many wonderful things for the university.

882
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:33,000
As far as President Rothman, it's unfortunate that he chose this exit.

883
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:36,000
It's unfortunate that he's creating a narrative that has to be negative.

884
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,000
It doesn't have to be negative.

885
01:13:38,000 --> 01:13:40,000
The past is the past.

886
01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,000
He's done wonderful things, as I've said before.

887
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:48,000
He rited the ship for all our comprehensives, which has never been done.

888
01:13:48,000 --> 01:13:54,000
We work together well in civil dialogue, and we're very excited about where it's headed.

889
01:13:54,000 --> 01:14:01,000
I'm so proud of our 13 universities and how serious they're taking civil dialogue in free speech.

890
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:07,000
And we are all, every one of us, I can speak for the board, our proponents, all that is happening with this.

891
01:14:07,000 --> 01:14:09,000
This is necessary.

892
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:11,000
More speech is better, right?

893
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:13,000
We all agree with that.

894
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:17,000
And I'm so proud that we've taken a lead, and the President's taken that lead.

895
01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:21,000
I mean, people can assume things, but that's not up to us.

896
01:14:21,000 --> 01:14:23,000
That's up to President Rothman.

897
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:30,000
If he wants to wave confidentiality, then he can do that, and we can talk about the personnel matters.

898
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:42,000
I mean, I think there's enough narrative out there from the positives, and the fact that we want to go forward with a leader for the future is really, to me, it's not a negative.

899
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:46,000
Everyone can create their own stories, but that's not on the regions.

900
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,000
We didn't want it that way.

901
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:51,000
It's unprecedented to determine how he wants the narrative.

902
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:55,000
So it's unfortunate, but here we are.

903
01:14:55,000 --> 01:15:00,000
I'm just hoping we are looking at a negative block because of large departures.

904
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:05,000
If you haven't considered that, that would be shameful because now it should be.

905
01:15:05,000 --> 01:15:06,000
I appreciate that.

906
01:15:06,000 --> 01:15:07,000
I appreciate that.

907
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:08,000
I appreciate that.

908
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:15,000
And it's unfortunate in Regent and, I'm sorry, Mr. Rothman's tenure for various reasons.

909
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:17,000
We've lost 10 chancellors, right?

910
01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:19,000
We don't want that.

911
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:20,000
We want stability.

912
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:22,000
We want to bring stability back.

913
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:32,000
And if you look around the country, again, higher education is a big change.

914
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:36,000
Chancellors, presidents, these are really difficult jobs.

915
01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:44,000
It wasn't like it was 10, 15 years ago when they don't have issues that are so controversial.

916
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:46,000
Everyone's under a magnifying glass.

917
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:51,000
And these jobs for these people at such a high level, there's burnout.

918
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:52,000
And they're hard.

919
01:15:52,000 --> 01:15:54,000
They're under the government 24-7.

920
01:15:54,000 --> 01:16:02,000
So for whatever reason that the public assumes, these jobs are really tough.

921
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:09,000
And I think we have a lot of good people that we will find to replace both Mr. Rothman and

922
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:10,000
Chancellor Mannehkin.

923
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,000
I am very confident.

924
01:16:13,000 --> 01:16:17,000
A couple of points to raise on that.

925
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:22,000
In addition to leaving for Columbia, it's going to make $3 million there.

926
01:16:22,000 --> 01:16:24,000
She makes $1 million here.

927
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:30,000
We also had Chancellor Schmitt leave Eau Claire and he had a really good bump when he went

928
01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:31,000
to James Madison.

929
01:16:31,000 --> 01:16:37,000
And I'm going to say this, the $600,000 we paid President Rothman.

930
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:42,000
It's nice of him to accept that that's not a market salary for a system this size.

931
01:16:42,000 --> 01:16:46,000
You can look around and just say, but that's where we are.

932
01:16:46,000 --> 01:16:54,000
One of the things that President Rothman and I frequently put it heads on was open meetings.

933
01:16:54,000 --> 01:17:00,000
He firmly believed in closed meetings and he also believed in briefing us individually

934
01:17:00,000 --> 01:17:07,000
in small groups so that we didn't have these public discussions about things.

935
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:12,000
I am a huge, I was an municipal official for 20-some years.

936
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:14,000
Open meetings don't bother me.

937
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:15,000
I lived with them.

938
01:17:15,000 --> 01:17:16,000
I ran a village.

939
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:18,000
I ran a water utility.

940
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:19,000
They are what they are.

941
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:21,000
You just follow the law.

942
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:26,000
But when you're using it to try and keep people from discussing what is going on, that's

943
01:17:26,000 --> 01:17:29,000
another reason why we look so opaque.

944
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:33,000
It's just because you can go into a closed session.

945
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:35,000
Doesn't mean you have to.

946
01:17:35,000 --> 01:17:38,000
You are given the opportunity by statute.

947
01:17:38,000 --> 01:17:41,000
And I think we have way too many closed sessions.

948
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:47,000
And I think our little side briefings, I always say those because of the major purposes.

949
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:50,000
So it wasn't publicly discussed to have meeting.

950
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,000
And I just think that's inappropriate enough.

951
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:59,000
And his favor, what he used to tell me was, I don't want to agitate individual legislators.

952
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:02,000
I don't want to agitate individual campuses.

953
01:18:02,000 --> 01:18:06,000
I don't want to agitate by them hearing this.

954
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:07,000
And meeting.

955
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:10,000
And I'm going, isn't that?

956
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:13,000
You guys do that when you talk about stuff, don't you agitate?

957
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,000
If you hold when you talk about the law, you're going to do that.

958
01:18:16,000 --> 01:18:17,000
Yes.

959
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:18,000
These means dial charges.

960
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:19,000
Yes.

961
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:22,000
So that's another thing I agree with you.

962
01:18:22,000 --> 01:18:24,000
I am not a fan of closed meetings.

963
01:18:24,000 --> 01:18:26,000
The university has too many.

964
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:28,000
Not because they're not legal.

965
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:33,000
Okay, because I made sure that if we go, this is one of the places.

966
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:36,000
If we start veering off what we said we're going to discuss,

967
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:39,000
I'm the one that raises my hand and go, excuse me.

968
01:18:39,000 --> 01:18:41,000
And so this is a general constant now.

969
01:18:41,000 --> 01:18:42,000
This is off topic.

970
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:43,000
Okay.

971
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:46,000
But we still have too many of them.

972
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:50,000
We need to be more transparent for you and for the public.

973
01:18:50,000 --> 01:18:52,000
I'm not ashamed of them.

974
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:54,000
Is it controversial?

975
01:18:54,000 --> 01:18:55,000
Oh, God.

976
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:56,000
You're doing it.

977
01:18:56,000 --> 01:19:03,000
You know, Benjamin Franklin said, someone in public life where no one angry at them needs to be ashamed.

978
01:19:03,000 --> 01:19:04,000
Okay.

979
01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:06,000
I mean, you're not doing something.

980
01:19:06,000 --> 01:19:09,000
So that would be another point of philosophical disagreement.

981
01:19:09,000 --> 01:19:12,000
President Roth would not talk the lie.

982
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:13,000
Okay.

983
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:15,000
Can I ask a follow-up question?

984
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:16,000
I'll get to you.

985
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:17,000
I promise.

986
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:21,000
Oh, wait a minute.

987
01:19:21,000 --> 01:19:23,000
Sir, you were there first?

988
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:24,000
Okay.

989
01:19:24,000 --> 01:19:25,000
Okay.

990
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:27,000
I'll just finish my comment a little quickly.

991
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:29,000
Let's see.

992
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:39,000
Again, you really, really know things that President Rothman was not in support of or not needing to charge with or for.

993
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:44,000
You've mentioned, again, a couple of specific others, but a little bit more vague.

994
01:19:44,000 --> 01:19:57,000
Can you kind of walk us through a process of, was there, were there meetings, review meetings, performance meetings with President Rothman around those areas that you found him to be insufficient

995
01:19:57,000 --> 01:20:01,000
or counter to what you were trying to accomplish?

996
01:20:01,000 --> 01:20:05,000
Were those meetings in private?

997
01:20:05,000 --> 01:20:07,000
Were they open meetings?

998
01:20:07,000 --> 01:20:09,000
Were they documented meetings?

999
01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:20,000
Are there documents that, as a board, we can have access to just to, again, behind the scenes of how this fall some have played out?

1000
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:23,000
The University of New York, I'm sorry.

1001
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:42,000
I'll just, because I was, I will just tell you that, and I think this has been in my statement before, and I don't know if this is helpful to repeat this, but the President of the Board is tasked with the, it's in policy that we are tasked with giving an annual evaluation to the President.

1002
01:20:42,000 --> 01:20:43,000
This is nothing new.

1003
01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:48,000
It's been going on forever, and that was done.

1004
01:20:48,000 --> 01:21:07,000
And there were things that, you know, he was tasked with, and he had gone into some closed sessions about his personal evaluation, because it was, when it first happened, it was me, the President, and our Vice President, Kyle Weatherly, that did the evaluation.

1005
01:21:07,000 --> 01:21:10,000
We gave him that information.

1006
01:21:10,000 --> 01:21:24,000
We had further talks and closed session about his personal evaluation, and then, you may or may not be aware, there was many, many discussions with individual members, with President Rothman, as time went on.

1007
01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:53,000
So, unfortunately, the evaluation was done, you know, all personal evaluations are done this way, in confidence, and that's the way I was told to conduct it, that's the way I did conduct it, and spent dozens and dozens of hours doing the evaluation, and a lot of things sent from that, and has further performances we went forward.

1008
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:59,000
So, again, I apologize, but it is confidential, those things that came out.

1009
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:05,000
I know President Rothman was very well aware of all those things, so.

1010
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:14,000
Well, I'll say that the system is obsessive about not making public matters.

1011
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:22,000
President Rothman and I had a discussion one time, and I was a little annoyed, but I didn't remember the topic.

1012
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:32,000
I sent him an email, and his response was, do you understand that's a public record now, and I go, yeah, I don't remember the topic, but there's an example.

1013
01:22:32,000 --> 01:22:41,000
And the reason he used to give, because this was a discussion, and I got over and over and over again, all you're going to do is upset the separate constituencies.

1014
01:22:41,000 --> 01:22:51,000
Okay, that's, I'm not saying he's wrong, that's probably true, but to me, that's what comes about the territory.

1015
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:58,000
I don't know, that's the way I looked at it, but I spent 20-some years as an additional official, I used to.

1016
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:08,000
And to be fair, to Mr. Rothman, there are many things that happen in a system that are hard for the campuses, and hard for constituents, and hard for legislators,

1017
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:19,000
and so I think he was, he was, a lot of the times, he was just trying to be respectful to the other public, because there are many things that are discussed, as you all know, that are very difficult,

1018
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:28,000
and hard things that we need to do, that are very difficult. So, it's a balance, and it's really difficult to get the right balance.

1019
01:23:29,000 --> 01:23:36,000
Okay, can I quickly ask, were those performance reviews, how long performance we used it, or something different?

1020
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:50,000
If they were reviewed by the overall Board of Regents, and I guess agreed to, in that regard, those were presented to, then President Rothman, either verbally or in writing,

1021
01:23:50,000 --> 01:24:01,000
again, is there a policy about those documents being and writing that he signs in consideration of the review given, or how does that necessarily play out?

1022
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:10,000
No, there's nothing that he signs. It was a discussion that was had, the initial discussion with both Kyle Weatherly, the Vice President and myself,

1023
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:17,000
the results of my, the process that we went through with the evaluation, and all the various stakeholders that we talked to.

1024
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:27,000
That was the first initial stages, and then it was my duty, and my fiduciary duty, to let the full board know the results of that conversation,

1025
01:24:27,000 --> 01:24:36,000
and then we went into closed session with Mr. Rothman, and then to try to push it along,

1026
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:43,000
there were, and there were further discussions that were fought between other members of the board, discussing these with them.

1027
01:24:43,000 --> 01:25:00,000
And those other discussions were reasons for, in the same vein of other concerns the Board of Large had, or were those individual concerns that those reasons were identified, or speaking into?

1028
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:08,000
Sorry, that, yeah, I'm glad I should need to be clarified. It was all stemming from the evaluation and issues that were identified going forward.

1029
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:13,000
It wasn't individual members kind of piling on their own opinion.

1030
01:25:13,000 --> 01:25:14,000
No, Frank, I'm sorry.

1031
01:25:14,000 --> 01:25:16,000
That would be the case, but I'm just going to encourage you.

1032
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:17,000
I apologize, yeah.

1033
01:25:17,000 --> 01:25:18,000
Thank you.

1034
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:27,000
And one thing that people tell you, and there's some fluid in each of this, is that when he was talking to us, sometimes it wasn't clear whether, in fact,

1035
01:25:27,000 --> 01:25:32,000
you see, in my state, that I'm only responsible for what I say that she's not.

1036
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:39,000
It wasn't always clear whether discussions were a group, a majority.

1037
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:44,000
You know, we can't have a rolling forum on voting, so we really don't know what's going on.

1038
01:25:44,000 --> 01:25:50,000
But in fairness to, yes, sometimes we're speaking for more than one person, sometimes we're speaking for ourselves.

1039
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:52,000
So that's in fairness to you.

1040
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:53,000
Anybody have been confused?

1041
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:54,000
Yes.

1042
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:55,000
Thank you both.

1043
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:56,000
Appreciate the answer.

1044
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:57,000
Someone's questions?

1045
01:25:57,000 --> 01:25:58,000
I know we've got a list.

1046
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:01,000
So our gaffers are a large, so I'm not sure who was first.

1047
01:26:01,000 --> 01:26:03,000
So that you guys aren't going to solve work.

1048
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:04,000
I'll be real quick.

1049
01:26:04,000 --> 01:26:05,000
Thank you, Mr. Chair.

1050
01:26:05,000 --> 01:26:08,000
I'm going to thank you both for being here.

1051
01:26:08,000 --> 01:26:09,000
Thank you for your readership.

1052
01:26:09,000 --> 01:26:10,000
I appreciate it.

1053
01:26:10,000 --> 01:26:12,000
I know it's not easy to be here.

1054
01:26:12,000 --> 01:26:14,000
You've worked very hard.

1055
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:23,000
Mr. Nixon, in your testimony, you write his command and control management style.

1056
01:26:23,000 --> 01:26:30,000
Now, you went on to talk about how that was needed during the financial and operational

1057
01:26:30,000 --> 01:26:32,000
discipline to an organization.

1058
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:36,000
My question to you is this.

1059
01:26:36,000 --> 01:26:37,000
What's that?

1060
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:40,000
Command and control management style?

1061
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:45,000
Did that stifle conversation among you and your colleagues in the work?

1062
01:26:45,000 --> 01:26:46,000
Not for the issue.

1063
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:52,000
Well, later on, but not for the issues that he was using it for, where it was really effective.

1064
01:26:52,000 --> 01:27:00,000
Where we had campuses that were running structural deficits for years, where they had too many

1065
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:02,000
people that go down that list.

1066
01:27:02,000 --> 01:27:04,000
That's something that you just don't go up to.

1067
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:06,000
People go, hey, do you want to cut your budget?

1068
01:27:06,000 --> 01:27:12,000
You've got to go in and you've got to say, excuse me, but you must do these things.

1069
01:27:12,000 --> 01:27:18,000
I'll tell you where it does get a little stifling is where if any of us talk to a chancellor,

1070
01:27:18,000 --> 01:27:24,000
they're supposed to call him and then he's talking to me of you or something, it got a little,

1071
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:28,000
you know, where he wanted to make sure he knew everything, and you can't know everything

1072
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:31,000
when you're managing a $8 billion organization.

1073
01:27:31,000 --> 01:27:34,000
Maybe he could, but I just say overall.

1074
01:27:34,000 --> 01:27:36,000
So it's that kind of thing.

1075
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:39,000
Oh, you talk to someone, so the idea.

1076
01:27:39,000 --> 01:27:41,000
You talk to the speaker.

1077
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:43,000
Yes, I talk to the speaker.

1078
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:44,000
That sort of thing.

1079
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:48,000
It was sometimes Python, but I want to be clear.

1080
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:56,000
It was an absolutely necessary way of doing things, because people just don't have their

1081
01:27:56,000 --> 01:27:57,000
budgets by the means of dollars.

1082
01:27:57,000 --> 01:27:59,000
They don't let people go voluntarily.

1083
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:00,000
They don't.

1084
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:04,000
So when we were in that process, that was extremely beneficial.

1085
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:09,000
Would you identify that man who style is top-down?

1086
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:15,000
Or would you identify that style as bottom-up?

1087
01:28:15,000 --> 01:28:17,000
It's distinctly top-down.

1088
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:22,000
And again, depending on what you're trying to do, that was the kind of point I was trying

1089
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:24,000
to make at the end of the quarterback.

1090
01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:26,000
It depends on what you're trying to do, right?

1091
01:28:26,000 --> 01:28:30,000
Sometimes you need a top-down command to control structure.

1092
01:28:30,000 --> 01:28:32,000
What exactly does it want?

1093
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:34,000
A top-down management aspect.

1094
01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:35,000
Who the heck wants?

1095
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:37,000
Governor doesn't want to listen to you.

1096
01:28:37,000 --> 01:28:41,000
He doesn't want to listen to us if that creates the above.

1097
01:28:41,000 --> 01:28:46,000
That's a natural tension that exists, but it exists for a reason.

1098
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:50,000
It exists for a reason, so we're trying to get a good decision.

1099
01:28:50,000 --> 01:28:54,000
But that management style is what brought fiscal sense.

1100
01:28:54,000 --> 01:28:55,000
I understand.

1101
01:28:55,000 --> 01:28:56,000
I understand.

1102
01:28:56,000 --> 01:28:59,000
I'm asking about these five things that you've identified.

1103
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:00,000
It's not helpful.

1104
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:01,000
It's not helpful.

1105
01:29:01,000 --> 01:29:02,000
It's not helpful.

1106
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:04,000
So I'd like to hear from you.

1107
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:09,000
How is it not helpful when you're trying to move the UW system forward?

1108
01:29:09,000 --> 01:29:12,000
I do appreciate this financial management.

1109
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:14,000
We've crossed that bridge.

1110
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:19,000
We now are talking about moving forward for state of Wisconsin.

1111
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:23,000
We need to have these discussions at the board level by board of regents.

1112
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:24,000
And where are you?

1113
01:29:24,000 --> 01:29:25,000
No.

1114
01:29:25,000 --> 01:29:27,000
And why were you not?

1115
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:28,000
I thought you were not.

1116
01:29:29,000 --> 01:29:36,000
In my view, we were not having the discussions that we should have had about the major issues.

1117
01:29:36,000 --> 01:29:39,000
For instance, let's talk about AI for a second.

1118
01:29:39,000 --> 01:29:44,000
We had a meeting where half the day was spent, what I call a dog and pony show.

1119
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:48,000
Because we had been saying we needed a meeting on the AI guidelines.

1120
01:29:48,000 --> 01:29:49,000
We needed one.

1121
01:29:49,000 --> 01:29:50,000
We needed one.

1122
01:29:50,000 --> 01:29:55,000
Half the day was a dog and pony show about the truly great things happening at all our campuses.

1123
01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,000
Nobody questioned that.

1124
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:04,000
But they're doing it without any guardrails or guidelines or consideration by the board of regents.

1125
01:30:04,000 --> 01:30:10,000
And I am a big believer in letting the campuses be creative and do great things.

1126
01:30:10,000 --> 01:30:11,000
That's for the strength.

1127
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:13,000
The strength is not a board of regents.

1128
01:30:13,000 --> 01:30:15,000
The strength is not in the system.

1129
01:30:15,000 --> 01:30:17,000
You've got to let them bet you.

1130
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:24,000
But we're supposed to, just like you are, in this committee, you're supposed to provide some oversight and some guidance.

1131
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:25,000
We are too.

1132
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:29,000
In those kinds of situations, there was a reluctance.

1133
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:36,000
And it was wanting to control the entire process for beginning to end rather than letting us know.

1134
01:30:36,000 --> 01:30:37,000
Sometimes make mistakes.

1135
01:30:37,000 --> 01:30:40,000
I'm sure this committee has never made a mistake.

1136
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,000
The board of regents then might have a couple of times.

1137
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:44,000
Don't contest that.

1138
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:48,000
But really, you've got to have some public discussion on these issues.

1139
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:50,000
And not to put words.

1140
01:30:50,000 --> 01:30:51,000
Thank you.

1141
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:52,000
No, you can try.

1142
01:30:52,000 --> 01:30:54,000
No, no, not to put words in your mouth.

1143
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:57,000
Board President.

1144
01:30:57,000 --> 01:31:14,000
But did you, did you two feel that there was a command and control management style of the fathers moving forward on innovation in the UW system?

1145
01:31:15,000 --> 01:31:16,000
I do believe that.

1146
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:21,000
And I think there are many reasons, again, many that I can't discuss.

1147
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:33,000
But I think when you're under a lot of pressure in this position, sometimes thought is given that perhaps that's the best way to go about things.

1148
01:31:33,000 --> 01:31:38,000
And the board, I think, didn't find it the most helpful.

1149
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:41,000
And, again, I have no further questions.

1150
01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:42,000
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1151
01:31:42,000 --> 01:31:44,000
Thank you both for your dedication.

1152
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:45,000
Thank you.

1153
01:31:45,000 --> 01:31:46,000
Thank you very much.

1154
01:31:46,000 --> 01:31:47,000
Thank you, Senator.

1155
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:48,000
Senator Larson.

1156
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:49,000
Thank you.

1157
01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:50,000
Thank you.

1158
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:51,000
Thank you.

1159
01:31:51,000 --> 01:31:54,000
And again, thank you both for your service.

1160
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:57,000
It's a follow up for the last question I asked.

1161
01:31:57,000 --> 01:32:00,000
You're doing the roles that you're doing.

1162
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:02,000
And you bring us to our stage.

1163
01:32:02,000 --> 01:32:05,000
Actually, at the end of the day, too.

1164
01:32:05,000 --> 01:32:06,000
Yeah.

1165
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:18,000
So, as we are turning the page, there is a sense of what went not as well.

1166
01:32:18,000 --> 01:32:24,000
And so, as we are moving forward, you are moving forward.

1167
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:35,000
What can the legislature do to make sure that our universities are as successful as possible in recruiting,

1168
01:32:35,000 --> 01:32:39,000
quality chancellors, retaining quality chancellors,

1169
01:32:39,000 --> 01:32:48,000
and bringing in a new system precedent that is going to be responsive to the needs of students

1170
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:56,000
and to the citizens of Wisconsin and to faculty and to everybody who interacts with our state's largest employers.

1171
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:58,000
That's a good question.

1172
01:32:58,000 --> 01:33:01,000
You almost have a good question, but that was a good one.

1173
01:33:02,000 --> 01:33:08,000
Thank you, Senator Larson.

1174
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:09,000
I'll start.

1175
01:33:09,000 --> 01:33:11,000
Excellent question.

1176
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:21,000
I think that as we move forward into the future, and I apologize if I alluded to that this is divisiveness.

1177
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:24,000
That's not what I was referring to, and I'm sorry.

1178
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:29,000
I really appreciate all of you in having this discussion,

1179
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:39,000
because I think what we need to make clear to everyone in this entire state is how much we all value the universities.

1180
01:33:39,000 --> 01:33:45,000
And I know that when I talk of conversations with everyone, legislators on both sides of the aisle,

1181
01:33:45,000 --> 01:33:48,000
people that I have nothing in common with.

1182
01:33:48,000 --> 01:33:52,000
When you bring up the University of Wisconsin, there's pride.

1183
01:33:52,000 --> 01:34:01,000
And I don't think the system, the universities itself, has done a very good job in bragging about all the incredible things that we've done.

1184
01:34:01,000 --> 01:34:10,000
And we continue to do, and I think that if we get the messaging out there together, we are what makes the state run.

1185
01:34:10,000 --> 01:34:20,000
The Wisconsin idea is so near and dear to so many of us that the opportunity to have knowledge in the classroom

1186
01:34:20,000 --> 01:34:25,000
turns out to the state and the peoples and the people of the state and beyond.

1187
01:34:25,000 --> 01:34:27,000
That is what we're here for, right?

1188
01:34:27,000 --> 01:34:33,000
We're here for that knowledge and everywhere beyond not just our country, but the world.

1189
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:38,000
I mean, we are valued because of the Wisconsin idea and all of them we accomplish.

1190
01:34:38,000 --> 01:34:44,000
And the benefits that we receive from this university, and I think we have to give back to that.

1191
01:34:44,000 --> 01:34:51,000
We have to give back to how important it is for educating our people of the state and not talking just 18-year-olds.

1192
01:34:51,000 --> 01:34:53,000
I'm talking about everyone.

1193
01:34:53,000 --> 01:34:58,000
And I want more, I think, than we've had this great initiative at the universities just recently,

1194
01:34:58,000 --> 01:35:05,000
where the wonderful credit union has given money so we can have online courses for anybody in the state.

1195
01:35:05,000 --> 01:35:08,000
I think there's nine different courses for AI.

1196
01:35:09,000 --> 01:35:16,000
I mean, it's wonderful that you know, on there now, like, you'll see all sorts of other universities trying to get in.

1197
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:18,000
This is free for our citizens.

1198
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:24,000
That's what we're here for, and I think going forward in a leader, we want someone to see the future.

1199
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:33,000
I'm someone that can bring us to where we can get the resources that we need for our students and our faculty and our staff.

1200
01:35:33,000 --> 01:35:35,000
And they're so deserving.

1201
01:35:35,000 --> 01:35:44,000
I mean, when I spend time with students on the campuses, I sort of probably leave, but I was up at UW River Falls.

1202
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:50,000
And I was meeting with D3 students' athletes.

1203
01:35:50,000 --> 01:35:53,000
And it just amazed me.

1204
01:35:53,000 --> 01:35:58,000
Their dedication, I talked to one kid, grew up on a farm up there.

1205
01:35:58,000 --> 01:36:02,000
And he was so thrilled that he got to play football at River Falls.

1206
01:36:02,000 --> 01:36:04,000
And you know how well their team has done.

1207
01:36:04,000 --> 01:36:07,000
And he was so excited that he got to talk to me.

1208
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:09,000
He didn't even know what her region was.

1209
01:36:09,000 --> 01:36:11,000
But that I am listening to him.

1210
01:36:11,000 --> 01:36:17,000
He told me his daily schedule of when he would get up at four o'clock in the morning, he'd go and work out.

1211
01:36:17,000 --> 01:36:21,000
Then he would go to his job at a diner, working so hard.

1212
01:36:21,000 --> 01:36:24,000
His family didn't have the money to send him.

1213
01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:29,000
And then he'd go back to practice, and he'd go to class, and then he'd go back to work, and then back to practice.

1214
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:32,000
And I was embarrassed because I started to cry.

1215
01:36:32,000 --> 01:36:41,000
I mean it was unbelievable, the dedication of our students and our faculty, and what they want to better their features,

1216
01:36:41,000 --> 01:36:46,000
and the futures of their children, and to make their families proud, and those around them.

1217
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:48,000
That's why we're all here.

1218
01:36:48,000 --> 01:36:51,000
So, you know, maybe I'm looking for a unicorn and a president.

1219
01:36:51,000 --> 01:36:58,000
I don't know, but someone that sees the full vision and what we're all here for that can make bold decisions

1220
01:36:58,000 --> 01:37:00,000
along with the Board of Regents.

1221
01:37:00,000 --> 01:37:07,000
I mean, for me to have a successful president and a successful board, we move in sync.

1222
01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:12,000
We move in sync, whether there are disagreements below, underneath, in closed session.

1223
01:37:12,000 --> 01:37:17,000
We move together as one choice, because we have one mission.

1224
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:19,000
And that's what I'm hoping for.

1225
01:37:19,000 --> 01:37:22,000
I think your question was the legislature.

1226
01:37:22,000 --> 01:37:24,000
Didn't you ask what the legislature could do?

1227
01:37:24,000 --> 01:37:26,000
Did I understand the question?

1228
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:28,000
Whoever asked the question.

1229
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:30,000
Part of it.

1230
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:32,000
Yeah, what the legislature could do.

1231
01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:33,000
Sure.

1232
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:37,000
Here's a couple of things you need to think about.

1233
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:38,000
Okay.

1234
01:37:38,000 --> 01:37:45,000
Number one, you need to understand we're competing on the national level for talent.

1235
01:37:45,000 --> 01:37:46,000
Okay.

1236
01:37:46,000 --> 01:37:48,000
So, we're talking like the fusion.

1237
01:37:48,000 --> 01:37:51,000
We're getting close to fusion here in Wisconsin.

1238
01:37:51,000 --> 01:37:53,000
Pretty interesting.

1239
01:37:53,000 --> 01:38:01,000
But, you know, we got to pay what they would make at MIT, all those places.

1240
01:38:01,000 --> 01:38:05,000
We've got to be able to pay them that money.

1241
01:38:05,000 --> 01:38:12,000
The other thing is, I'm worried about becoming the fire team for university leaders.

1242
01:38:12,000 --> 01:38:13,000
Okay.

1243
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:20,000
You know, we grow these people, but because of what we pay them relative to what the market is elsewhere.

1244
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:22,000
Now, you can say they're paying too much.

1245
01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:24,000
I'd be paying nothing.

1246
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:26,000
So, let me go back there.

1247
01:38:26,000 --> 01:38:34,000
But if you use that same logic, you should be Jordan Law of $600,000 because he's in Green Bay.

1248
01:38:34,000 --> 01:38:35,000
Okay.

1249
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:38,000
You've got to compete in the market, you're in.

1250
01:38:38,000 --> 01:38:40,000
So, you need to be aware of that.

1251
01:38:40,000 --> 01:38:44,000
What you let us do and what you fund for us, that's up to you.

1252
01:38:44,000 --> 01:38:46,000
You are the elected officials.

1253
01:38:46,000 --> 01:38:47,000
That's sort of number one.

1254
01:38:47,000 --> 01:38:55,000
Number two is I would really like legislators to go visit campuses because the sense I get

1255
01:38:55,000 --> 01:39:00,000
is that to a number of legislators, they're Mr. Potato Hands.

1256
01:39:00,000 --> 01:39:05,000
They're all potatoes, but a few have different hands and different ears and stuff.

1257
01:39:05,000 --> 01:39:12,000
When you go to the campuses, you understand their unique qualities and what they do.

1258
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:16,000
And by the way, if you're getting a little down and you want to get kind of pumped up,

1259
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:18,000
you're going to talk to these kids and these faculty members.

1260
01:39:18,000 --> 01:39:21,000
And if you're thinking you're having a bad day, that'll help.

1261
01:39:21,000 --> 01:39:26,000
But to understand that you need this, and that's the other thing we're pushing toward,

1262
01:39:26,000 --> 01:39:32,000
is each campus sort of having a specialty, but then everybody's got to teach childcare.

1263
01:39:32,000 --> 01:39:34,000
Everybody's got to teach teachers.

1264
01:39:34,000 --> 01:39:40,000
So, I would like legislators to be aware that we compete in a particularly medicine.

1265
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:43,000
It competes in a national market for talent.

1266
01:39:43,000 --> 01:39:48,000
And you've got to pay whatever that market gets, whether you like it or not.

1267
01:39:48,000 --> 01:39:52,000
The other thing is I would like legislators to the extent they don't.

1268
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:59,000
The number you do, go and visit individual campuses and see what's on those campuses.

1269
01:39:59,000 --> 01:40:00,000
Talk to those students.

1270
01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:02,000
Talk to those staff.

1271
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:07,000
Talk to those faculty because it helps bring it real.

1272
01:40:08,000 --> 01:40:13,000
I know question anybody's good faith here.

1273
01:40:13,000 --> 01:40:14,000
I just simply don't.

1274
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:20,000
I think people have to put themselves forward in public life and public service are in that faith.

1275
01:40:20,000 --> 01:40:24,000
What we're disagreeing about sometimes is how to do things.

1276
01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:28,000
I would like conversations with legislators personally.

1277
01:40:28,000 --> 01:40:30,000
I know I have talked to Vice Chair.

1278
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:31,000
I've been to your office.

1279
01:40:31,000 --> 01:40:33,000
You may not remember.

1280
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:34,000
Well, I remember you.

1281
01:40:35,000 --> 01:40:36,000
Most people do.

1282
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:38,000
I am hired as well.

1283
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:43,000
I talk to the speaker every year before the past two years.

1284
01:40:43,000 --> 01:40:47,000
I've known to talk to the speaker and I said, what are your legislative priorities?

1285
01:40:47,000 --> 01:40:48,000
I want to know.

1286
01:40:48,000 --> 01:40:54,000
I've actually suggested bringing legislative leaders in to meet with the Board of Regents,

1287
01:40:54,000 --> 01:40:57,000
but that was something else that was not met with.

1288
01:40:57,000 --> 01:40:58,000
I'm honored.

1289
01:40:58,000 --> 01:40:59,000
Okay.

1290
01:40:59,000 --> 01:41:02,000
If we actually invite you.

1291
01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:08,000
So we can keep this die a lot ago because we want the same things.

1292
01:41:08,000 --> 01:41:10,000
I think we want the same things.

1293
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:16,000
As far as I can tell, how to get there I think is where we're running up against the rub.

1294
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:19,000
And I kind of wish this never would have happened.

1295
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:20,000
But hey, we can't.

1296
01:41:20,000 --> 01:41:24,000
So we're all going to deal with it and I understand why you're asking me the questions.

1297
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:26,000
A little question.

1298
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:28,000
Yes, I got a couple here.

1299
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:30,000
I got more down this.

1300
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:33,000
Senator Larson has made clear.

1301
01:41:33,000 --> 01:41:39,000
So when you talk about earlier transformative leaders, I would just say as we look at the

1302
01:41:39,000 --> 01:41:42,000
budget, I've drawn some things down here.

1303
01:41:42,000 --> 01:41:46,000
We have $250 million in new revenue that was brought in the last budget.

1304
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:50,000
We got $50 million in GPR for the athletic facility.

1305
01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:57,000
We got legislation that NIL just in the last floor session got over the final little bit

1306
01:41:57,000 --> 01:41:58,000
there.

1307
01:41:58,000 --> 01:42:02,000
That was a close one and it was close, but it got there.

1308
01:42:02,000 --> 01:42:05,000
Healthcare related wise, I mean numerous buildings for healthcare.

1309
01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:08,000
Hundreds of millions of dollars for healthcare.

1310
01:42:08,000 --> 01:42:13,000
I think he did some pretty amazing things and was transformative in regards to getting

1311
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:16,000
things within this budget and policy.

1312
01:42:16,000 --> 01:42:21,000
I was a little bit kind of boned after that budget was passed that then there was a 5%

1313
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:24,000
increase amongst tuition.

1314
01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:29,000
And recently I just heard that there's a possible another 2% increase in tuition.

1315
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:31,000
I guess my question is, is that correct?

1316
01:42:31,000 --> 01:42:34,000
I'm kind of curious because we're thinking transformative leaders.

1317
01:42:34,000 --> 01:42:38,000
I think he's done some pretty amazing things here and still there was an increase and now

1318
01:42:38,000 --> 01:42:41,000
again another potential increase.

1319
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:44,000
You know, it's pretty contentious in this building at times.

1320
01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:49,000
And when this gentleman did come to the office and we worked through some of this stuff,

1321
01:42:49,000 --> 01:42:52,000
it's a rough atmosphere to be in here.

1322
01:42:53,000 --> 01:42:59,000
So as you are looking for somebody to fill this place, I hope that there's some sort

1323
01:42:59,000 --> 01:43:05,000
of demeanor that Rothman had that is able to work across party lines and actually get things

1324
01:43:05,000 --> 01:43:11,000
done because in this building we talk a lot and a lot doesn't be done.

1325
01:43:11,000 --> 01:43:15,000
It's frustrating and you don't even get to do it.

1326
01:43:15,000 --> 01:43:16,000
It's not just one person.

1327
01:43:16,000 --> 01:43:19,000
It's many things that come together.

1328
01:43:20,000 --> 01:43:25,000
But I hope that as you find a transformative person, whoever that might be, that these

1329
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:31,000
discussions and this policy continue to be worked on and not just one side or another.

1330
01:43:31,000 --> 01:43:36,000
And then I will just add here that, you know, I appreciate all the info that you have

1331
01:43:36,000 --> 01:43:38,000
provided here today.

1332
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:44,000
And as we talk about transformative kind of leadership, I look for not the great plot.

1333
01:43:44,000 --> 01:43:47,000
Just get to the point, tell me what it is and let's get it done.

1334
01:43:47,000 --> 01:43:51,000
I hope that when you go back and speak with your regions that you are not in some way

1335
01:43:51,000 --> 01:43:56,000
punished for the things that you have discussed here today and that folks continue to support

1336
01:43:56,000 --> 01:44:02,000
you on your board there because, again, I hope that this has been a productive conversation

1337
01:44:02,000 --> 01:44:05,000
that's not punitive in any way towards you, sir.

1338
01:44:05,000 --> 01:44:08,000
There's a reason you've both sent it.

1339
01:44:08,000 --> 01:44:12,000
It should make people tell us a different style here.

1340
01:44:12,000 --> 01:44:17,000
I just hope that it continues to be productive and nobody is silenced.

1341
01:44:17,000 --> 01:44:19,000
That's all.

1342
01:44:19,000 --> 01:44:20,000
But two percent increases.

1343
01:44:20,000 --> 01:44:23,000
I've heard that is that coming this way.

1344
01:44:23,000 --> 01:44:26,000
I will try to answer.

1345
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:34,000
I know you mentioned Mr. Rothman being, um, advocating for the universities.

1346
01:44:34,000 --> 01:44:41,000
Absolutely advocated for us and I am so pleased that he really went in there and advocated

1347
01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:47,000
along with many other people from the system and from the campuses and it was a group effort.

1348
01:44:47,000 --> 01:44:55,000
It was a group effort and in the end, so pleased that both the legislature and our governor

1349
01:44:55,000 --> 01:44:56,000
I have done.

1350
01:44:56,000 --> 01:45:02,000
I mean, this is the governor's budget and the compromises that were made in the end

1351
01:45:02,000 --> 01:45:06,000
benefited us greatly and we are very, very grateful for that.

1352
01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:13,000
Um, I think as far as Mr. Rothman, I think, you know, as any good leader should do,

1353
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:16,000
he relied on many other people to get it done as well.

1354
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:23,000
So we are grateful for that and as far as the tuition increase, um, you know, for example what we need.

1355
01:45:23,000 --> 01:45:29,000
I have heard many times from the wonderful Chancellor Media at La Crosse who says,

1356
01:45:29,000 --> 01:45:34,000
we have a demographic clip and I just tour the campus again.

1357
01:45:34,000 --> 01:45:37,000
I try to go to the campuses often.

1358
01:45:37,000 --> 01:45:42,000
We have a demographic clip but I've got kids that I can't take and got students that are applying

1359
01:45:42,000 --> 01:45:47,000
and he showed me, of course I always like to show me the terror, like the nightmare of buildings

1360
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:49,000
that you see with the wires coming down.

1361
01:45:49,000 --> 01:45:50,000
But this was a dorm.

1362
01:45:50,000 --> 01:45:52,000
He's like, I don't have no place to put that.

1363
01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:56,000
I would love to take more students and so it seems like building, building, building,

1364
01:45:56,000 --> 01:46:02,000
but when we want our campuses to grow, you can't put them, you know, can't let them put them intense.

1365
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:10,000
So that's just one example of moving forward but 2% increase as far as an increase in tuition.

1366
01:46:10,000 --> 01:46:12,000
We have to consider the budgets.

1367
01:46:12,000 --> 01:46:17,000
It's, you know, we're looking at everything right now that is nothing right in stone.

1368
01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:19,000
This is just out there.

1369
01:46:19,000 --> 01:46:20,000
I don't know if it's going to happen.

1370
01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:25,000
We really have to kind of drill down into what the campuses need, talk to all the campuses.

1371
01:46:25,000 --> 01:46:28,000
And that's where we're at right now.

1372
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:31,000
So potentially a 7% increase.

1373
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:32,000
No, no, no.

1374
01:46:32,000 --> 01:46:36,000
If I'm after the budget and now another 2, that would be set.

1375
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:41,000
That is, right now, there's no tuition increase right now.

1376
01:46:41,000 --> 01:46:46,000
We're looking at what the campuses need and seeing if we can move forward.

1377
01:46:46,000 --> 01:46:48,000
That's where it's at.

1378
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:54,000
We've had discussions with Mr. Rothman as well, bringing it to us, trying to figure out

1379
01:46:54,000 --> 01:46:57,000
can we move forward without it?

1380
01:46:57,000 --> 01:46:58,000
What can we do here?

1381
01:46:58,000 --> 01:47:00,000
How can we kind of close the gap here?

1382
01:47:00,000 --> 01:47:03,000
So there's current discussions but it hasn't been solidified.

1383
01:47:03,000 --> 01:47:04,000
Right.

1384
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:06,000
Please keep that in mind though.

1385
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:09,000
That does have a 7% increase within a very short period of time.

1386
01:47:09,000 --> 01:47:12,000
I'm checking that right now because that's not my understanding.

1387
01:47:12,000 --> 01:47:15,000
So let me turn this into clarification.

1388
01:47:15,000 --> 01:47:16,000
Yes, no.

1389
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:17,000
I know you are.

1390
01:47:17,000 --> 01:47:18,000
So am I.

1391
01:47:18,000 --> 01:47:20,000
There you go.

1392
01:47:20,000 --> 01:47:21,000
Thank you.

1393
01:47:22,000 --> 01:47:29,000
Or, President, I've got a few questions that I would just like to follow up with you on

1394
01:47:29,000 --> 01:47:30,000
if I may.

1395
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:33,000
Questions that I thought of that I thought were just important.

1396
01:47:33,000 --> 01:47:38,000
It's a part of our discussion specific to the hiring of Jay Rothman.

1397
01:47:38,000 --> 01:47:42,000
I'm just going to read up to you since we're a little bit long and if I need to read them

1398
01:47:42,000 --> 01:47:43,000
to you as well.

1399
01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:47,000
I appreciate all the discussion around what we should be doing for universities and all

1400
01:47:47,000 --> 01:47:50,000
the positive things that we need to be moving forward on.

1401
01:47:51,000 --> 01:47:56,000
Unfortunately, this hearing is really specific to the understanding of the process with Jay

1402
01:47:56,000 --> 01:48:00,000
Rothman and our understanding of it.

1403
01:48:00,000 --> 01:48:04,000
Just because I think we need to have it where does it be if we need to be concerned about

1404
01:48:04,000 --> 01:48:10,000
what President looks like as well as best practices relative to individuals that will

1405
01:48:10,000 --> 01:48:13,000
employees in this case and are dismissed.

1406
01:48:13,000 --> 01:48:19,000
But you indicated that there was a clear evaluation with President Rothman relative

1407
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:22,000
to his performance.

1408
01:48:22,000 --> 01:48:28,000
Suggestions made around improvements that the board or you was the board president were

1409
01:48:28,000 --> 01:48:31,000
asking him to take on.

1410
01:48:31,000 --> 01:48:38,000
A little bit of a redundant again, but can you clarify whether that discussion and that

1411
01:48:38,000 --> 01:48:45,000
that additional request for improvements was put in writing and was documented in

1412
01:48:45,000 --> 01:48:52,000
support of his employment or employee file and if so, is that documents available to

1413
01:48:52,000 --> 01:48:56,000
us as a committee to have access to?

1414
01:48:56,000 --> 01:48:59,000
I appreciate the question again.

1415
01:48:59,000 --> 01:49:04,000
The way that all of these are conducted just as Mr. Rothman had done with other

1416
01:49:04,000 --> 01:49:09,000
employees is that I took copious notes that I didn't share with anyone.

1417
01:49:09,000 --> 01:49:16,000
I mean, I was trying to find my notes and I never shared those with anyone on purpose

1418
01:49:16,000 --> 01:49:19,000
because that's what I was told how to conduct the evaluation.

1419
01:49:19,000 --> 01:49:24,000
It made it a lot more difficult for me to conduct this evaluation because I did sit there

1420
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:31,000
and talk to so many constituents, chances, regions, other stakeholders and ask them the

1421
01:49:31,000 --> 01:49:34,000
same questions over and over again.

1422
01:49:34,000 --> 01:49:43,000
And it took notes and when I gave Mr. Rothman that evaluation, I was reading from my notes.

1423
01:49:43,000 --> 01:49:48,000
I was told that I could not make any record, that that was not okay.

1424
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:51,000
Personnel evaluations are always conducted that way.

1425
01:49:51,000 --> 01:49:56,000
So unfortunately, I am unable to share those.

1426
01:49:56,000 --> 01:50:04,000
Can I just interrupt quickly, just ask who advised you of your ability to documents or anything

1427
01:50:04,000 --> 01:50:06,000
writing, which is for a call?

1428
01:50:06,000 --> 01:50:07,000
Right.

1429
01:50:07,000 --> 01:50:11,000
Well, besides the fact that I knew that was all the way that had been done that way but also

1430
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:14,000
the general counsel and Mr. Rothman.

1431
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:16,000
So that's the way I conducted it.

1432
01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:20,000
And believe me, I would love to have done it in a different way because it would have been,

1433
01:50:20,000 --> 01:50:22,000
it would have saved me a lot of time.

1434
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:28,000
So you took quite a few personal notes as you were formulating your evaluation as you were

1435
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:32,000
to talk to several people to gather their thoughts and opinions.

1436
01:50:32,000 --> 01:50:33,000
Totally understood.

1437
01:50:33,000 --> 01:50:36,000
So you had a lot of your own personal copies notes on that.

1438
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:38,000
But we don't in terms of best practices.

1439
01:50:38,000 --> 01:50:44,000
Currently the system has a means for however that evaluation is constructed for that to be

1440
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:46,000
transferred into a formal document.

1441
01:50:46,000 --> 01:50:47,000
Right.

1442
01:50:47,000 --> 01:50:48,000
Yeah.

1443
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:54,000
He then reviews, agrees, tortoise agrees to, sends off on and is in a permanent place for

1444
01:50:54,000 --> 01:50:57,000
that ongoing litigation that doesn't exist today.

1445
01:50:57,000 --> 01:51:00,000
Is that what I understand we're saying?

1446
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:01,000
Yes.

1447
01:51:01,000 --> 01:51:03,000
I probably don't remember this.

1448
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:07,000
I don't know if general counsel had him sign off.

1449
01:51:07,000 --> 01:51:09,000
I don't remember that.

1450
01:51:09,000 --> 01:51:10,000
I apologize.

1451
01:51:10,000 --> 01:51:14,000
Now that you're saying that, I don't know if he signs off that we didn't evaluate or not.

1452
01:51:15,000 --> 01:51:16,000
I can find out.

1453
01:51:16,000 --> 01:51:20,000
I didn't think he did, but I'm just not positive.

1454
01:51:20,000 --> 01:51:21,000
I don't know.

1455
01:51:21,000 --> 01:51:25,000
I think, I mean, obviously he acknowledged it and there are ongoing discussions.

1456
01:51:25,000 --> 01:51:28,000
But I don't know if there's anything.

1457
01:51:28,000 --> 01:51:31,000
I mean, nothing written down of what was in the evaluation.

1458
01:51:31,000 --> 01:51:34,000
But as far as confirming that one was done.

1459
01:51:34,000 --> 01:51:37,000
Honestly, I don't remember that.

1460
01:51:37,000 --> 01:51:39,000
I apologize for that.

1461
01:51:39,000 --> 01:51:40,000
I can get back to you.

1462
01:51:40,000 --> 01:51:41,000
I will definitely get back to you.

1463
01:51:41,000 --> 01:51:42,000
I appreciate that.

1464
01:51:42,000 --> 01:51:48,000
If you mentioned you obviously took several of your own notes in preparation for that evaluation,

1465
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:53,000
are those notes still accessible and available to this committee if so requested?

1466
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:56,000
They're not available because they're considered confidential.

1467
01:51:56,000 --> 01:52:00,000
And I never, I shared it with them orally, but I never shared it with anybody else.

1468
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:04,000
I don't know if it would, it would, the way that I write.

1469
01:52:04,000 --> 01:52:06,000
I don't know what that would be.

1470
01:52:06,000 --> 01:52:16,000
I mean, again, if Mr. Rothman wave his confidentiality, I'll try to look at my notes and go further with you.

1471
01:52:16,000 --> 01:52:17,000
Sure.

1472
01:52:17,000 --> 01:52:18,000
I'd be happy to do so.

1473
01:52:18,000 --> 01:52:19,000
Okay.

1474
01:52:19,000 --> 01:52:20,000
Thank you.

1475
01:52:20,000 --> 01:52:22,000
Just a couple of other questions if I may.

1476
01:52:22,000 --> 01:52:32,000
I know you, you, you refer to several good fake discussions with Jay Rothman, a set of what those may be or, or not.

1477
01:52:33,000 --> 01:52:43,000
Were you in a position where based on those discussions, you were able to document the, just to cover the basis for the regions,

1478
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:53,000
cover the dates and times of those discussions and have anything formally as followed and writing to those discussions that we've given to Jay to say,

1479
01:52:53,000 --> 01:52:59,000
based on the discussion we had yesterday at 2pm, here's a summary of what we did discuss.

1480
01:52:59,000 --> 01:53:11,000
Please review it to make sure that we're in agreement to what those discussions were in terms of some formal document there again that was signed or at least provided to him.

1481
01:53:11,000 --> 01:53:18,000
He was, he never received a document, but he received the, the summary of the evaluation.

1482
01:53:18,000 --> 01:53:20,000
I want to say numerous times.

1483
01:53:20,000 --> 01:53:27,000
I mean, there were certain things asked of him and he was repeated to him by me.

1484
01:53:27,000 --> 01:53:32,000
And by the boarding flow session, and then again by other members of the Lord.

1485
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:37,000
So, we don't have any documentation of that.

1486
01:53:37,000 --> 01:53:45,000
I can try to figure out the dates and I think we have records of the flow session, of when the dates of the flow sessions were.

1487
01:53:45,000 --> 01:53:56,000
And there's shortly after the evaluation, I know him and I also met with his cheapest app to go over those.

1488
01:53:56,000 --> 01:54:00,000
It was, I want to say five days later.

1489
01:54:00,000 --> 01:54:06,000
And I can try to look at my calendar and see what those dates were, but I apologize that there were nobody who knows.

1490
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:07,000
Sorry for that.

1491
01:54:07,000 --> 01:54:14,000
And not being critical to you or anybody, but maybe a little bit concerning regarding the process.

1492
01:54:14,000 --> 01:54:16,000
Those were pretty high stakes.

1493
01:54:16,000 --> 01:54:21,000
We're talking about the UW system and leadership across the board.

1494
01:54:22,000 --> 01:54:24,000
That's a lot of good memories.

1495
01:54:24,000 --> 01:54:27,000
Don't necessarily make up for things being documented.

1496
01:54:27,000 --> 01:54:28,000
Sure.

1497
01:54:28,000 --> 01:54:30,000
In my case, I would concur with that as well.

1498
01:54:30,000 --> 01:54:34,000
So, we'll be able to determine the terms of best practices.

1499
01:54:34,000 --> 01:54:42,000
You folks are in the legal business for a lot of good reasons that we haven't applied some of those disciplines within the UW systems.

1500
01:54:42,000 --> 01:54:44,000
It relates to key employee ease.

1501
01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:48,000
Again, just is shut to pricing to me.

1502
01:54:49,000 --> 01:54:52,000
I think that's kind of where we're at in that regard.

1503
01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:56,000
That's what leads to a lot of verbal hearsay.

1504
01:54:56,000 --> 01:55:12,000
And he said she said, I believe that President Rothman has been clear that in those discussions that there was no mention of potential termination if so and so didn't happen or it wasn't going to happen.

1505
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:14,000
Was that the case?

1506
01:55:14,000 --> 01:55:15,000
Was that the case?

1507
01:55:15,000 --> 01:55:16,000
Wasn't the case?

1508
01:55:16,000 --> 01:55:20,000
We really don't know because that may have just been verbal discussion with you.

1509
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:30,000
He, appropriately so, I don't think anything documented that said, here's actually took place just from good governance but also from a legal perspective.

1510
01:55:30,000 --> 01:55:31,000
And I agree with you.

1511
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:34,000
And the way things are done is very difficult.

1512
01:55:34,000 --> 01:55:36,000
We are very public facing board.

1513
01:55:36,000 --> 01:55:39,000
I think it's the most public facing board in the state.

1514
01:55:39,000 --> 01:55:40,000
And I do agree with you.

1515
01:55:40,000 --> 01:55:42,000
It made it much more difficult for me.

1516
01:55:43,000 --> 01:55:46,000
But I think these were said over and over again.

1517
01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:50,000
And because of that, it's the fact that the board lost confidence.

1518
01:55:50,000 --> 01:55:53,000
And that's really truly what was the outcome.

1519
01:55:53,000 --> 01:56:01,000
But no, it's absolutely something that we need to reevaluate and see how we can proceed further.

1520
01:56:01,000 --> 01:56:04,000
This is something that's been done over and over again.

1521
01:56:04,000 --> 01:56:11,000
I know many areas of employment, you know, an outflow employee and personnel evaluations are always confidential.

1522
01:56:12,000 --> 01:56:16,000
But because we are such a public facing board, maybe perhaps there is a better way to do it.

1523
01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:18,000
So, I appreciate that.

1524
01:56:18,000 --> 01:56:19,000
Yeah.

1525
01:56:19,000 --> 01:56:20,000
Well, thank you.

1526
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:21,000
Appreciate if you back on there.

1527
01:56:21,000 --> 01:56:26,000
Again, I know there continues to be, unfortunately, is reflecting fully on the regions in this case.

1528
01:56:26,000 --> 01:56:38,000
In terms of comments made publicly or privately regarding what was but communicated as relates to a lead up to the actual termination.

1529
01:56:39,000 --> 01:56:46,000
Again, I think it would be helpful for folks that are in our roles of fiduciary responsibility on behalf of taxpayers.

1530
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:53,000
And I don't know about my colleagues, but I've certainly received enough communication from residents in my district

1531
01:56:53,000 --> 01:56:58,000
around the state that are huge, huge advocates for UW,

1532
01:56:58,000 --> 01:57:03,000
but are concerned about this process and how it played out and why it played out.

1533
01:57:03,000 --> 01:57:07,000
I think those taxpayers demand transparency and answers to that.

1534
01:57:07,000 --> 01:57:14,000
Hopefully, are available in a form that can be big public because there's written documentation for the facts,

1535
01:57:14,000 --> 01:57:16,000
which is all I think we'd all want to see.

1536
01:57:16,000 --> 01:57:19,000
And the answers to those facts.

1537
01:57:19,000 --> 01:57:24,000
So, appreciate your thoughts and comments on that in terms of public played out.

1538
01:57:24,000 --> 01:57:32,000
Hopefully, we can't figure out going forward truly what best practices should look like in that case in every regard.

1539
01:57:33,000 --> 01:57:38,000
Is it a fair statement to say that without going back to specific dates or years

1540
01:57:38,000 --> 01:57:42,000
that there were evaluations done with then-President Rothman

1541
01:57:42,000 --> 01:57:51,000
that were very affirming and very positive based on the work that he was doing and had been doing?

1542
01:57:51,000 --> 01:57:54,000
Again, no flows are in writing or not.

1543
01:57:54,000 --> 01:57:56,000
I think those would be helpful to see as well.

1544
01:57:57,000 --> 01:58:03,000
Because I think my takeaway based on all the good feedback and discussion that we've had

1545
01:58:03,000 --> 01:58:09,000
is you certainly give proper recognition to President Rothman for a lot of the great things he did do

1546
01:58:09,000 --> 01:58:14,000
and a lot of the issues that he did lead and push forward.

1547
01:58:14,000 --> 01:58:20,000
Where those evaluations clear in his mind is to jump well done.

1548
01:58:20,000 --> 01:58:22,000
We really appreciate what you're doing.

1549
01:58:22,000 --> 01:58:25,000
We can do a support of the world for taking us down.

1550
01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:31,000
And it cannot be found somewhere in terms of just the base relationship between President Rothman and the board.

1551
01:58:31,000 --> 01:58:39,000
Because at some point in time it appears that there was a quick veer to the left or quick veer to the right

1552
01:58:39,000 --> 01:58:49,000
that what he was and had been doing changed and what he wasn't doing going forward became unacceptable to the board.

1553
01:58:50,000 --> 01:58:52,000
And again, I'm phrasing that as I'm phrasing it.

1554
01:58:52,000 --> 01:58:59,000
I mean, if he has that really said, but something happened at some point that he went from being a board

1555
01:58:59,000 --> 01:59:04,000
president that was, I'm sorry, a systems president that was highly supported by the board

1556
01:59:04,000 --> 01:59:12,000
to a systems president that was very unsupported by the board for like a better way of saying it

1557
01:59:12,000 --> 01:59:17,000
that ultimately led to his firing by the United States Board.

1558
01:59:17,000 --> 01:59:21,000
And I'm just, again, I know some of those things have been alluded to.

1559
01:59:21,000 --> 01:59:28,000
It would be, I think, really beneficial for the systems to have a track record of what that was and why.

1560
01:59:28,000 --> 01:59:31,000
It could be for very legitimate reasons, obviously.

1561
01:59:31,000 --> 01:59:33,000
Don't doubt that or question that.

1562
01:59:33,000 --> 01:59:37,000
But the process for which that was done, again, is somewhat concerning.

1563
01:59:37,000 --> 01:59:42,000
And just wondering if you can, kind of, what a thousand foot view, kind of modified and effective,

1564
01:59:42,000 --> 01:59:49,000
what was very supportive in terms of physics Rothman's accomplishments on the board.

1565
01:59:49,000 --> 01:59:56,000
At some point became very unsupportive and was that just out of the field or was that a growing set

1566
01:59:56,000 --> 02:00:03,000
and over time because there were hypothetically twenty initiatives that the board really felt like

1567
02:00:03,000 --> 02:00:10,000
we could get done that weren't, or was as they slow, we just don't see this moving in the right direction type,

1568
02:00:10,000 --> 02:00:12,000
decision by the board.

1569
02:00:12,000 --> 02:00:15,000
I just want to clarify something.

1570
02:00:15,000 --> 02:00:25,000
When I gave Mr. Rothman his review, I did, it was really difficult, somewhat of a 360 review.

1571
02:00:25,000 --> 02:00:35,000
And as Mr. Rothman, his own words, when he has said publicly in media, I've given hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of evaluations.

1572
02:00:35,000 --> 02:00:40,000
He would tell us all the time, you've got to give at least four positives to every negative.

1573
02:00:40,000 --> 02:00:41,000
Okay?

1574
02:00:41,000 --> 02:00:45,000
And I was very certain of myself that I did that.

1575
02:00:45,000 --> 02:00:50,000
I gave him many positives to, you know, at least four or five.

1576
02:00:50,000 --> 02:01:01,000
And my vice president and I thought we had that covered, that we pointed out the positives and where we were happy with, but then the negatives came.

1577
02:01:01,000 --> 02:01:07,000
And he was very disheartened by those and very upset by that.

1578
02:01:07,000 --> 02:01:12,000
And I was surprised how upset he was by that.

1579
02:01:12,000 --> 02:01:15,000
These are things that we tried to work on.

1580
02:01:15,000 --> 02:01:17,000
It was not sudden.

1581
02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:19,000
It was not sudden.

1582
02:01:19,000 --> 02:01:21,000
And Mr. Rothman knows that.

1583
02:01:21,000 --> 02:01:27,000
It was ongoing situations that we had in many discussions with him about.

1584
02:01:27,000 --> 02:01:32,000
And I didn't want to pile on, so of course there are many positive things that are happening.

1585
02:01:32,000 --> 02:01:40,000
So it's, you know, in any good review, you do want to say the positives, and we all felt confident that there are positive things.

1586
02:01:40,000 --> 02:01:46,000
But there are many things as we move forward together that we needed him to work on.

1587
02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:47,000
And that's where we got stuck.

1588
02:01:47,000 --> 02:01:50,000
And again, this was not overnight.

1589
02:01:50,000 --> 02:01:59,000
It was a process that was going on, and on, until the board completely, every one of us lost confidence.

1590
02:01:59,000 --> 02:02:02,000
And as opposed to the board.

1591
02:02:02,000 --> 02:02:06,000
Let me suggest that we were caught by circumstances.

1592
02:02:06,000 --> 02:02:10,000
Both Mr. Rothman and the board.

1593
02:02:10,000 --> 02:02:15,000
I first got on the board in May of 2024.

1594
02:02:15,000 --> 02:02:21,000
The word was, for God's sake, the extent that you're not shut, because we're in a budget negotiation.

1595
02:02:21,000 --> 02:02:23,000
Don't raise any of this stuff.

1596
02:02:23,000 --> 02:02:24,000
Don't talk about it.

1597
02:02:24,000 --> 02:02:28,000
We're negotiating a budget, so don't raise this stuff.

1598
02:02:28,000 --> 02:02:29,000
Okay, fine.

1599
02:02:29,000 --> 02:02:30,000
We're in a budget negotiation.

1600
02:02:30,000 --> 02:02:32,000
I'm not going to raise this stuff.

1601
02:02:32,000 --> 02:02:34,000
I'll be good, but that's really hard for me.

1602
02:02:34,000 --> 02:02:43,000
Then, when you passed Act 15, and we went to enforce it, and I am, I liked some things in Act 15.

1603
02:02:43,000 --> 02:02:47,000
This would get me in trouble, but I did like some things in Act 15.

1604
02:02:47,000 --> 02:02:55,000
That took an inordinate amount of time, so for the period that the budget was in process in Act 15,

1605
02:02:55,000 --> 02:03:00,000
anything that was sort of boat rocking was pushed aside.

1606
02:03:00,000 --> 02:03:07,000
Okay, so I'm thinking about what you're saying, so it's kind of like that's sort of what happened.

1607
02:03:07,000 --> 02:03:12,000
We were not probably talking about a lot of things, because we were trying not to rock the boat.

1608
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:17,000
And then we were trying to implement Act 15 without a folder phone.

1609
02:03:17,000 --> 02:03:20,000
Okay, but both of those things were done now.

1610
02:03:20,000 --> 02:03:27,000
And so now these things have, you're right, they have sort of stacked up over time, and now they're there.

1611
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:34,000
And in fairness, the President often asked us, I kind of think that's a bit of what happened here,

1612
02:03:34,000 --> 02:03:41,000
was, you know, at least for me I know that they asked me not to say things out loud, and I didn't.

1613
02:03:41,000 --> 02:03:44,000
Oh, by the way, may I address the vice chair?

1614
02:03:44,000 --> 02:03:53,000
Quickly, two percent is being proposed and talked about what's not locked in, it is not seven percent.

1615
02:03:53,000 --> 02:03:56,000
It was five percent, not, if you want to add.

1616
02:03:56,000 --> 02:03:57,000
That's what I'd say.

1617
02:03:57,000 --> 02:04:03,000
And if you're getting back to, yeah, we're doing, we're proposing, or they are proposing,

1618
02:04:03,000 --> 02:04:05,000
it hasn't been presented to some of those things.

1619
02:04:05,000 --> 02:04:10,000
And we've got these little round drop-in discussions where you bring in two regions of the time,

1620
02:04:10,000 --> 02:04:15,000
and then you brief them so you don't have to, you know, go through the thing with everybody.

1621
02:04:15,000 --> 02:04:19,000
There are other things that we're throwing around as well, though, and whether we do it or not.

1622
02:04:19,000 --> 02:04:24,000
Yeah, so it's in the discovery of what we're looking at.

1623
02:04:24,000 --> 02:04:28,000
Yeah, it's under discussion, not been brought to us yet.

1624
02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:32,000
So it's not been proposed to us yet.

1625
02:04:32,000 --> 02:04:39,000
I just, you know, as somebody that used to teach at UW Oshkosh, as a student at UW Oshkosh, UW Milwaukee,

1626
02:04:39,000 --> 02:04:40,000
I mean, it's a big deal.

1627
02:04:40,000 --> 02:04:42,000
Affordability is a big deal.

1628
02:04:42,000 --> 02:04:47,000
So we talk about a transformative leader and we talk about keeping those tuition costs down.

1629
02:04:47,000 --> 02:04:53,000
Hey, there was a lot of money in the last budget, current budget, five percent shortly after another two percent,

1630
02:04:53,000 --> 02:04:55,000
and I've had people reach out to me.

1631
02:04:55,000 --> 02:04:56,000
We could talk about that.

1632
02:04:56,000 --> 02:04:57,000
We could talk about that.

1633
02:04:57,000 --> 02:05:01,000
We had 579 employees that we talked about there.

1634
02:05:01,000 --> 02:05:02,000
We could come in.

1635
02:05:02,000 --> 02:05:03,000
They had it very proud.

1636
02:05:03,000 --> 02:05:04,000
Save that two percent.

1637
02:05:04,000 --> 02:05:06,000
I bet you could cut four percent.

1638
02:05:06,000 --> 02:05:11,000
But 579 people are a lot of people that we don't need, and we only need 50.

1639
02:05:11,000 --> 02:05:13,000
Well, that's just where we're going to start.

1640
02:05:13,000 --> 02:05:15,000
Just throw that out there.

1641
02:05:15,000 --> 02:05:16,000
I'm not going to count on those.

1642
02:05:16,000 --> 02:05:23,000
We have one of the lowest positions in the Big Ten, and still, seven percent is a lot in two years.

1643
02:05:23,000 --> 02:05:29,000
In addition, it was all this entire country that I'll look to this and say, you know, when I was in school,

1644
02:05:29,000 --> 02:05:32,000
it was much higher percentage from the state.

1645
02:05:32,000 --> 02:05:35,000
I was very, very happy because I couldn't afford it.

1646
02:05:35,000 --> 02:05:41,000
I still had to take loans out, but I look at what I paid and what's being paid by the students now.

1647
02:05:41,000 --> 02:05:43,000
It's a tremendous difference.

1648
02:05:43,000 --> 02:05:51,000
So I would love to work together to figure out ways to make it more affordable, where we keep quality education.

1649
02:05:51,000 --> 02:05:55,000
You just can't keep cutting, where students lose out.

1650
02:05:55,000 --> 02:05:59,000
So, just an observation.

1651
02:05:59,000 --> 02:06:02,000
Yeah, worthy one, for sure.

1652
02:06:02,000 --> 02:06:13,000
Board President, can you speak to, and certainly reach this as well, the strategic vision that the board,

1653
02:06:13,000 --> 02:06:17,000
the presuming can put together in 2022.

1654
02:06:17,000 --> 02:06:25,000
Again, presuming is all encompassing in terms of the system in general.

1655
02:06:25,000 --> 02:06:30,000
Is that strategic vision, if you will, still in place?

1656
02:06:30,000 --> 02:06:41,000
And did it come out of a broader discussion with the board of Regents, in terms of who is driving that

1657
02:06:41,000 --> 02:06:42,000
division?

1658
02:06:42,000 --> 02:06:46,000
Can you speak to President Rothman's involvement with the lack thereof?

1659
02:06:46,000 --> 02:06:54,000
How that vision started, hopefully, by person agreement in that regard?

1660
02:06:54,000 --> 02:06:58,000
And are we still kind of running on that same strategic vision?

1661
02:06:58,000 --> 02:07:03,000
And is there copies of that somewhere that the board reviews consistently?

1662
02:07:03,000 --> 02:07:08,000
And is that something that's available to us as a committee also?

1663
02:07:08,000 --> 02:07:10,000
I believe it's available.

1664
02:07:10,000 --> 02:07:11,000
I'm sure it is.

1665
02:07:11,000 --> 02:07:15,000
I mean, I will definitely check and get it to you as soon as I can.

1666
02:07:15,000 --> 02:07:17,000
I mean, that was in 2022.

1667
02:07:17,000 --> 02:07:24,000
I think one of President, Mr. Rothman's first jobs in duties was to do the strategic plan.

1668
02:07:24,000 --> 02:07:27,000
And I think he went to work right away.

1669
02:07:27,000 --> 02:07:32,000
I think he brought in constituencies for that 2022 plan.

1670
02:07:32,000 --> 02:07:38,000
I think one of the issues was the board is brought in on the later side of things.

1671
02:07:38,000 --> 02:07:42,000
We all talked about it.

1672
02:07:42,000 --> 02:07:44,000
And I think that we all went far with it.

1673
02:07:44,000 --> 02:07:50,000
But now, of course, as you know, things move so fast, change so fast.

1674
02:07:50,000 --> 02:07:53,000
Some of that strategic vision was carried out.

1675
02:07:53,000 --> 02:07:58,000
Some of it really didn't make sense because things were changing so quickly.

1676
02:07:58,000 --> 02:07:59,000
I don't have it.

1677
02:07:59,000 --> 02:08:00,000
I apologize.

1678
02:08:00,000 --> 02:08:07,000
I can't answer completely because I don't have it in front of me to tell you what we carried out.

1679
02:08:07,000 --> 02:08:08,000
We didn't carry out.

1680
02:08:08,000 --> 02:08:14,000
But part of it going forward is that we're trying to come up with what is needed at this moment

1681
02:08:14,000 --> 02:08:17,000
in time, which is different from what happened in 2022.

1682
02:08:17,000 --> 02:08:19,000
So, but I will get you.

1683
02:08:19,000 --> 02:08:20,000
I know we have it.

1684
02:08:20,000 --> 02:08:21,000
First time.

1685
02:08:21,000 --> 02:08:22,000
I appreciate that.

1686
02:08:22,000 --> 02:08:28,000
At the young boys, we know all these documents are fluid and for changing because sometimes

1687
02:08:28,000 --> 02:08:29,000
she's rubbish.

1688
02:08:29,000 --> 02:08:33,000
So keeping those up to date and current are always a challenge.

1689
02:08:33,000 --> 02:08:51,000
I would just say that part of the formula tell me this is not true.

1690
02:08:51,000 --> 02:08:57,000
But my understanding as part of the formula of how much is charged for tuition is dictated

1691
02:08:57,000 --> 02:09:02,000
by how much you get from the state and how much we support our institution.

1692
02:09:02,000 --> 02:09:07,000
And I believe that percentage has been in a state fine.

1693
02:09:07,000 --> 02:09:17,000
I know that having conversations across generations, there was folks who were paying nothing to

1694
02:09:17,000 --> 02:09:24,000
go to school or could afford to cover tuition by working a couple of weeks.

1695
02:09:25,000 --> 02:09:27,000
I just did the math.

1696
02:09:27,000 --> 02:09:35,000
It would require, I believe, 38 weeks of working a 40 hour week and then I would like to cover

1697
02:09:35,000 --> 02:09:37,000
a year's tuition.

1698
02:09:37,000 --> 02:09:44,000
So the idea of working to cover tuition has grown out of the region.

1699
02:09:44,000 --> 02:09:49,000
I believe a lot of that has become the state's dedication to the universities.

1700
02:09:50,000 --> 02:09:54,000
As a percentage of where they're getting the revenue from has been steady decline.

1701
02:09:54,000 --> 02:09:55,000
Is that correct?

1702
02:09:55,000 --> 02:09:56,000
That is correct.

1703
02:09:56,000 --> 02:10:01,000
I mean, I think that it's very fair to say that all our campuses have food pantries.

1704
02:10:01,000 --> 02:10:07,000
There's a lot of food insecurity because they want to go to school and they don't have enough.

1705
02:10:07,000 --> 02:10:11,000
They don't make enough of their jobs and many of them work.

1706
02:10:11,000 --> 02:10:17,000
And also, you know, I know a couple students, friends of my daughter, that lived in their

1707
02:10:17,000 --> 02:10:18,000
first year.

1708
02:10:18,000 --> 02:10:21,000
I mean, housing is enormously expensive.

1709
02:10:21,000 --> 02:10:24,000
I don't care what campus you're talking about.

1710
02:10:24,000 --> 02:10:26,000
It's very, very expensive.

1711
02:10:26,000 --> 02:10:28,000
I mean, it's not just here in our state.

1712
02:10:28,000 --> 02:10:30,000
All of you are very well aware.

1713
02:10:30,000 --> 02:10:33,000
I mean, housing is extremely expensive.

1714
02:10:33,000 --> 02:10:35,000
Food has gone up enormously.

1715
02:10:35,000 --> 02:10:38,000
I mean, I know the grocery store and I'm in shock.

1716
02:10:38,000 --> 02:10:45,000
So for students to be able to eat themselves by books, it's enormous.

1717
02:10:45,000 --> 02:10:50,000
So when we talk about Pell Grants or tuition remission, we're not talking about housing.

1718
02:10:50,000 --> 02:10:52,000
We're not talking about food.

1719
02:10:52,000 --> 02:10:56,000
We're not talking of just existing, right?

1720
02:10:56,000 --> 02:10:59,000
I mean, families can't afford this.

1721
02:10:59,000 --> 02:11:06,000
I'm making their parents or they have both parents, one parent, one guardian making a minimum wage,

1722
02:11:06,000 --> 02:11:08,000
working two jobs.

1723
02:11:08,000 --> 02:11:11,000
That's the state of our country right now.

1724
02:11:12,000 --> 02:11:16,000
We're committed to trying to help address that, to make sure it's accessible to more folks,

1725
02:11:16,000 --> 02:11:24,000
to make sure that we're not keeping in knowledge, keeping education, right?

1726
02:11:24,000 --> 02:11:25,000
It's very, very...

1727
02:11:25,000 --> 02:11:29,000
Which is to make sure that we have a smart population, which is the Wisconsin idea,

1728
02:11:29,000 --> 02:11:33,000
and the reason we have public education is to have smart neighbors.

1729
02:11:33,000 --> 02:11:38,000
And I just want to add that, you know, one of the biggest populations from this area,

1730
02:11:38,000 --> 02:11:39,000
right?

1731
02:11:39,000 --> 02:11:47,000
And to me, that's very, very sad, because when we're offered a job at Jiffy Louvre with a $1,000 sign-on bonus,

1732
02:11:47,000 --> 02:11:50,000
that looks pretty good to you, right?

1733
02:11:50,000 --> 02:11:57,000
And to not have the support of our state to help those people makes me sad.

1734
02:11:57,000 --> 02:12:00,000
And I know that many of them would rather go.

1735
02:12:00,000 --> 02:12:07,000
And even I know friends of friends that are having a tough time trying to make a go of it,

1736
02:12:07,000 --> 02:12:10,000
and it would be great to have that support.

1737
02:12:10,000 --> 02:12:12,000
So, thank you.

1738
02:12:12,000 --> 02:12:16,000
Is there a CG?

1739
02:12:16,000 --> 02:12:18,000
Just leave it like that, right?

1740
02:12:18,000 --> 02:12:20,000
You want me just to smile and just...

1741
02:12:20,000 --> 02:12:21,000
It's the main goal that's there for me.

1742
02:12:21,000 --> 02:12:24,000
But it's pass lunch, but if you want to...

1743
02:12:24,000 --> 02:12:26,000
This is the second vacation, so...

1744
02:12:26,000 --> 02:12:28,000
I know, I see the tan!

1745
02:12:28,000 --> 02:12:29,000
I see the tan!

1746
02:12:29,000 --> 02:12:30,000
We're on a sign.

1747
02:12:30,000 --> 02:12:34,000
I think that we worked very hard in the last budget.

1748
02:12:34,000 --> 02:12:36,000
We're not going to sit here and debate that.

1749
02:12:36,000 --> 02:12:37,000
We're not going to.

1750
02:12:37,000 --> 02:12:40,000
But I thought very hard for hundreds of millions of dollars for health care buildings.

1751
02:12:40,000 --> 02:12:43,000
And what you're telling me right now is that maybe shouldn't have been our focus.

1752
02:12:43,000 --> 02:12:46,000
It should have been more focused in other areas.

1753
02:12:46,000 --> 02:12:51,000
I don't know where the solutions are, but I do know nothing is for free.

1754
02:12:51,000 --> 02:12:55,000
And as we talk about increasing of tuition possibly again,

1755
02:12:55,000 --> 02:12:59,000
as we talk about compensating that through tax dollars, nothing is free.

1756
02:12:59,000 --> 02:13:05,000
I hope that all of you guys can work together as well as the individuals in this building to find a right number.

1757
02:13:05,000 --> 02:13:09,000
But again, you know, you brought up 579 employees.

1758
02:13:09,000 --> 02:13:11,000
I mean, that's a lot of bucks.

1759
02:13:11,000 --> 02:13:12,000
A lot of bucks.

1760
02:13:12,000 --> 02:13:15,000
So as we talk about it in a responsible fashion,

1761
02:13:15,000 --> 02:13:19,000
I just hope that for the people of Wisconsin that utilize our programs,

1762
02:13:19,000 --> 02:13:21,000
that we can find a great solution.

1763
02:13:21,000 --> 02:13:24,000
And I don't know what that is offhand.

1764
02:13:24,000 --> 02:13:25,000
Right?

1765
02:13:25,000 --> 02:13:26,000
I mean, that's part of the discussion.

1766
02:13:26,000 --> 02:13:27,000
Is it the 2%?

1767
02:13:27,000 --> 02:13:32,000
Is it, you know, increase in funds from the taxpayer of COTS that we have here?

1768
02:13:32,000 --> 02:13:33,000
I don't know what that is.

1769
02:13:33,000 --> 02:13:38,000
What I know is that costs continue to increase, which is concerning on many levels.

1770
02:13:38,000 --> 02:13:42,000
I mean, I can tell you my sad story about my time attending at UW schools

1771
02:13:42,000 --> 02:13:45,000
and the other schools that I've attended also, right?

1772
02:13:45,000 --> 02:13:49,000
Makes us stronger in the end when we make it through and then we are successful.

1773
02:13:49,000 --> 02:13:55,000
But I would just say as a whole, I hope that there will be continued productive discussions

1774
02:13:55,000 --> 02:14:00,000
with your transformative leader, whoever that might be, to address these issues

1775
02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:06,000
that our taxpayer base isn't the lead and our students aren't the lead.

1776
02:14:06,000 --> 02:14:10,000
But you've given two examples today of things that need to change.

1777
02:14:10,000 --> 02:14:13,000
And I will not forget 579.

1778
02:14:13,000 --> 02:14:18,000
I will continue to bring it up every opportunity because now I think we can get down to 529

1779
02:14:18,000 --> 02:14:25,000
and all of that money that goes to those 529 other people can possibly go to the pockets of our students.

1780
02:14:25,000 --> 02:14:30,000
Mr. Rothman has never admitted that 579 is the Roth number.

1781
02:14:30,000 --> 02:14:34,000
Whatever number it is, we can get down to those tech numbers at 50.

1782
02:14:34,000 --> 02:14:37,000
So I look forward to continuing to talk about those.

1783
02:14:37,000 --> 02:14:43,000
Now 529 salaries that can go to our students' tuition.

1784
02:14:43,000 --> 02:14:51,000
So as the chair of the committee, I have the dubious duty of allowing for some bandwidth of discussion,

1785
02:14:51,000 --> 02:14:56,000
because more than 5, but I'm also tasked with bringing you back to our narrow focus

1786
02:14:56,000 --> 02:15:00,000
with respect of your time and the committee's time as well.

1787
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:05,000
If I can ask and it goes back to again, I think concerns we're hearing from taxpayers

1788
02:15:05,000 --> 02:15:10,000
in terms of transparency within all agencies, including UW.

1789
02:15:10,000 --> 02:15:15,000
And some of those questions have been prompted by constituents,

1790
02:15:15,000 --> 02:15:23,000
related to how the Board of Regents conducted our most recent process with President Rothman.

1791
02:15:23,000 --> 02:15:34,000
I'd just like to guess, has some sense of understanding of the last two or three Regent Board meetings.

1792
02:15:34,000 --> 02:15:42,000
When did those take place and what were the topics of those meetings and where they centered around President Rothman

1793
02:15:42,000 --> 02:15:48,000
and a little decision that was going to be there to have to be decided on by the Board?

1794
02:15:48,000 --> 02:15:56,000
And was there a comprehensive or meeting of all of those Regents represented

1795
02:15:56,000 --> 02:16:05,000
through that ultimate decision in the process of your communication ultimately happening with the President Rothman?

1796
02:16:06,000 --> 02:16:10,000
Again, I think it's valuable to understand the process within the Board of Regents,

1797
02:16:10,000 --> 02:16:14,000
knowing that unless we have things in writing, which maybe we do,

1798
02:16:14,000 --> 02:16:23,000
then we don't from those board meetings, we're left to conjecture with the citizens of the state as to how that process did play out

1799
02:16:23,000 --> 02:16:28,000
either very well or not very well and covered to that.

1800
02:16:28,000 --> 02:16:32,000
So you speak to that process with the Board in terms of the most recent meetings

1801
02:16:32,000 --> 02:16:36,000
and how they tied into the ultimate decision with President Rothman.

1802
02:16:36,000 --> 02:16:43,000
I'm trying to go back to the last meeting.

1803
02:16:43,000 --> 02:16:52,000
Well, we had the meeting on, it's all, I apologize, it's blurry, but the meeting we had in full session

1804
02:16:52,000 --> 02:16:56,000
was to discuss a personal issue of Mr. Rothman.

1805
02:16:56,000 --> 02:17:02,000
And we all discussed where we were at with his evaluation and the tasks that we asked him to do.

1806
02:17:02,000 --> 02:17:09,000
And it was closed session on that, and I think it was one of those days of personal evaluation.

1807
02:17:09,000 --> 02:17:14,000
And discussions were had by the full board.

1808
02:17:14,000 --> 02:17:22,000
I believe that every, I'm trying to think of this full board, there may have been perhaps one personnel.

1809
02:17:22,000 --> 02:17:24,000
I do think that one was full board meeting.

1810
02:17:24,000 --> 02:17:26,000
I will get you all this.

1811
02:17:26,000 --> 02:17:29,000
I don't remember if there was one person missing.

1812
02:17:29,000 --> 02:17:43,000
And we talked about what comes next and that's when we put the notice out for his discuss Mr. Rothman's termination.

1813
02:17:44,000 --> 02:17:49,000
I apologize.

1814
02:17:49,000 --> 02:17:54,000
I can't remember the meeting before that when we had a closed session.

1815
02:17:54,000 --> 02:17:57,000
It wasn't that far apart.

1816
02:17:57,000 --> 02:18:06,000
I'll take the information and I can tell you the, at least I want to say the full board.

1817
02:18:06,000 --> 02:18:11,000
And discussions again about personal issues.

1818
02:18:12,000 --> 02:18:15,000
And it wasn't, it wasn't that far apart.

1819
02:18:15,000 --> 02:18:17,000
But I can leave you those records.

1820
02:18:17,000 --> 02:18:18,000
I apologize.

1821
02:18:18,000 --> 02:18:20,000
I should have kind of witnessed.

1822
02:18:20,000 --> 02:18:21,000
That's quite right.

1823
02:18:21,000 --> 02:18:25,000
I think the jibbler asked for quite a bit of information here in the hearing.

1824
02:18:25,000 --> 02:18:27,000
We're having to summarize that.

1825
02:18:27,000 --> 02:18:29,000
And if that's helpful, because I know it.

1826
02:18:29,000 --> 02:18:30,000
Yeah.

1827
02:18:30,000 --> 02:18:31,000
That would be great.

1828
02:18:31,000 --> 02:18:32,000
So it was so.

1829
02:18:32,000 --> 02:18:33,000
I tried to write down stuff.

1830
02:18:33,000 --> 02:18:34,000
I understood.

1831
02:18:34,000 --> 02:18:37,000
No apology necessary.

1832
02:18:38,000 --> 02:18:42,000
I think my last question, which may be profound, may not be profound.

1833
02:18:42,000 --> 02:18:46,000
I just think it's an interesting question to ask.

1834
02:18:46,000 --> 02:18:53,000
Can you remind me how long Jay Rothman's tenure was in the role as systems president?

1835
02:18:53,000 --> 02:18:54,000
Is it?

1836
02:18:54,000 --> 02:18:59,000
I think he started in June of 2022.

1837
02:18:59,000 --> 02:19:00,000
That's all right.

1838
02:19:00,000 --> 02:19:01,000
Okay.

1839
02:19:01,000 --> 02:19:02,000
So roughly four years.

1840
02:19:03,000 --> 02:19:05,000
Four years this June.

1841
02:19:05,000 --> 02:19:06,000
Okay.

1842
02:19:06,000 --> 02:19:17,000
As the board president and as a regent board member, if you had to do it all over again,

1843
02:19:17,000 --> 02:19:27,000
would your decision be different relative to the hiring of Jay Rothman in that role?

1844
02:19:27,000 --> 02:19:30,000
If yes, if no context to it.

1845
02:19:30,000 --> 02:19:31,000
Yeah.

1846
02:19:31,000 --> 02:19:32,000
It's just.

1847
02:19:32,000 --> 02:19:34,000
Can you give back and tell the future?

1848
02:19:34,000 --> 02:19:36,000
Maybe not be a perfect answer to it.

1849
02:19:36,000 --> 02:19:41,000
I'm just kind of curious, because I think it gives context to the overall discussion around

1850
02:19:41,000 --> 02:19:48,000
his role, the federal device and the decision they were made out of its hiring him, but

1851
02:19:48,000 --> 02:19:51,000
also consequently to this myself.

1852
02:19:51,000 --> 02:19:55,000
I would say that I would stick with what we did.

1853
02:19:55,000 --> 02:19:58,000
I think we were proud of that choice.

1854
02:19:58,000 --> 02:20:01,000
I think Mr. Rothman worked very, very hard.

1855
02:20:01,000 --> 02:20:04,000
He didn't come from the sector of higher education.

1856
02:20:04,000 --> 02:20:06,000
He was a lawyer.

1857
02:20:06,000 --> 02:20:12,000
With Foley Lardner, his entire career, which I give him a lot of credit for sticking with

1858
02:20:12,000 --> 02:20:13,000
that.

1859
02:20:13,000 --> 02:20:17,000
And he came into this with a lot of eagerness to do his best.

1860
02:20:17,000 --> 02:20:21,000
And, you know, it's a huge, difficult role.

1861
02:20:21,000 --> 02:20:27,000
So I would say yes, and it's unfortunate we've got to this point.

1862
02:20:27,000 --> 02:20:32,000
I would rather have not done this and display this out in public.

1863
02:20:32,000 --> 02:20:34,000
And I apologize for that.

1864
02:20:34,000 --> 02:20:36,000
But I would say yes.

1865
02:20:36,000 --> 02:20:39,000
I think it was so wise decision at the time.

1866
02:20:39,000 --> 02:20:44,000
And you never know how the future plays out and the complications of the world that exist

1867
02:20:44,000 --> 02:20:46,000
and how we maneuver that.

1868
02:20:46,000 --> 02:20:47,000
So.

1869
02:20:47,000 --> 02:20:48,000
Yeah.

1870
02:20:48,000 --> 02:20:50,000
I'm really happy.

1871
02:20:50,000 --> 02:20:51,000
I'm sorry.

1872
02:20:51,000 --> 02:20:53,000
I'd like to hear your comment.

1873
02:20:53,000 --> 02:20:54,000
Yeah.

1874
02:20:54,000 --> 02:20:55,000
You will.

1875
02:20:55,000 --> 02:20:56,000
Don't worry.

1876
02:20:56,000 --> 02:20:58,000
But you have to wait 10 seconds.

1877
02:20:58,000 --> 02:21:02,000
I was on the board and the President of Rothman was quick.

1878
02:21:02,000 --> 02:21:07,000
And obviously I'm part of the major law firm in Milwaukee South.

1879
02:21:07,000 --> 02:21:11,000
Pretty familiar with Mr. Rothman's law firm and everything.

1880
02:21:11,000 --> 02:21:17,000
At the time they did the hire, I was pleased it wasn't an academic.

1881
02:21:17,000 --> 02:21:22,000
I was pleased they went outside academia to look for somebody.

1882
02:21:22,000 --> 02:21:29,800
Now, that's a citizen's kind of view of the world, because I tend to believe any group

1883
02:21:29,800 --> 02:21:34,800
has too much inquiry, whether it's lawyers or academics or everybody else, right?

1884
02:21:34,800 --> 02:21:36,000
They all pick each other.

1885
02:21:36,000 --> 02:21:37,600
They all like each other.

1886
02:21:37,600 --> 02:21:41,600
And so they bring somebody from the outside, struck me as a good idea.

1887
02:21:41,600 --> 02:21:45,000
In addition, I don't know what their other choices were.

1888
02:21:45,000 --> 02:21:49,800
You know, it's not just in the abstract, it depends on, okay, who applied for this and

1889
02:21:49,800 --> 02:21:50,800
can we pick them?

1890
02:21:50,800 --> 02:21:56,000
At the time, I thought it was a good decision, and I don't think there's anything that would

1891
02:21:56,000 --> 02:22:00,800
change from now to say that bringing in an outsider wasn't a good idea.

1892
02:22:00,800 --> 02:22:05,600
And in fact, some of the results prove that that's true, okay?

1893
02:22:05,600 --> 02:22:15,800
Because I don't know the academics, but I'm going to take a good word there about cutting

1894
02:22:15,800 --> 02:22:18,800
on some of these things.

1895
02:22:18,800 --> 02:22:19,800
I really appreciate that.

1896
02:22:19,800 --> 02:22:26,400
Again, in response to having an open question, I think it gives some clarity for decisions

1897
02:22:26,400 --> 02:22:30,800
they could better otherwise, and where we're here today, and that's all we're going to.

1898
02:22:30,800 --> 02:22:31,800
It's our path.

1899
02:22:31,800 --> 02:22:37,800
The question is, any information shared by those who test idly and meet with the chairman

1900
02:22:37,800 --> 02:22:40,800
and share that with all members of the community?

1901
02:22:40,800 --> 02:22:41,800
Absolutely.

1902
02:22:41,800 --> 02:22:44,800
For a small fee, we're happy to provide it.

1903
02:22:45,800 --> 02:22:50,800
That's a very good point, and we'll make sure that that happens.

1904
02:22:50,800 --> 02:22:52,800
Any other questions from the committee?

1905
02:22:52,800 --> 02:22:54,800
Anybody on the phone?

1906
02:22:54,800 --> 02:22:57,800
With a question?

1907
02:22:57,800 --> 02:23:06,800
Okay, hearing none, thank you so much for your time and ability to be here and sit through

1908
02:23:06,800 --> 02:23:08,800
a committee to answer some questions.

1909
02:23:08,800 --> 02:23:09,800
Thank you very much.

1910
02:23:09,800 --> 02:23:10,800
Thank you.

1911
02:23:10,800 --> 02:23:11,800
Thank you.

1912
02:23:11,800 --> 02:23:12,800
Thank you.

1913
02:23:12,800 --> 02:23:13,800
Thank you.

1914
02:23:13,800 --> 02:23:14,800
Thank you.

1915
02:23:14,800 --> 02:23:15,800
Thank you.

1916
02:23:15,800 --> 02:23:16,800
All right.

1917
02:23:16,800 --> 02:23:17,800
We'll see you.

1918
02:23:17,800 --> 02:23:24,800
Next up to speak is Sherry Gellitzer.

1919
02:23:24,800 --> 02:23:25,800
Sorry.

1920
02:23:25,800 --> 02:23:27,800
Can you tell me that again?

1921
02:23:27,800 --> 02:23:28,800
Gellitzer.

1922
02:23:28,800 --> 02:23:29,800
Oh.

1923
02:23:30,800 --> 02:23:31,800
Oh.

1924
02:23:31,800 --> 02:23:36,800
I wasn't very happy with her, so.

1925
02:23:36,800 --> 02:23:37,800
Oh.

1926
02:23:37,800 --> 02:23:38,800
Oh.

1927
02:23:38,800 --> 02:23:39,800
Oh.

1928
02:23:39,800 --> 02:23:40,800
Oh.

1929
02:23:40,800 --> 02:23:41,800
Oh.

1930
02:23:41,800 --> 02:23:42,800
Oh.

1931
02:23:42,800 --> 02:23:43,800
Oh.

1932
02:23:43,800 --> 02:23:44,800
Oh.

1933
02:23:44,800 --> 02:23:45,800
Oh.

1934
02:23:45,800 --> 02:23:46,800
Oh.

1935
02:23:46,800 --> 02:23:47,800
Oh.

1936
02:23:47,800 --> 02:23:48,800
Oh.

1937
02:23:48,800 --> 02:23:49,800
Oh.

1938
02:23:49,800 --> 02:23:50,800
Oh.

1939
02:23:50,800 --> 02:23:51,800
Oh.

1940
02:23:51,800 --> 02:23:52,800
Oh.

1941
02:23:52,800 --> 02:23:53,800
Oh.

1942
02:23:53,800 --> 02:23:54,800
Oh.

1943
02:23:54,800 --> 02:23:55,800
Oh.

1944
02:23:55,800 --> 02:23:56,800
Oh.