So this, Maris, probably, will be rolled into our program tomorrow on here and now.
And I've written a little lead into it, but so this will just be some questions.
And this isn't a half an hour long deal.
I think I've been given five minutes, but I've also been told I can go over.
So, well, we don't have to, but it prevents me from timing it on my phone, which is pretty
awkward.
Because then it looks like I'm texting somebody in the middle of the interview, you know.
Okay.
Great.
Well, first of all, thanks very much for doing this with us.
Sure.
Yeah.
Thanks certainly.
That this reading bill was the most important thing that you have worked on in the Capitol.
What's your reaction then to the governor's veto and the lawsuit over it as Act 20 is
really already being enacted?
Yeah.
It's frustrating.
You know, it's sort of politics.
You know, what the governor did actually with the veto was not that horrible.
It's just the precedent of that, of him being able to go in and use line, a partial
line on the veto where traditionally he has not been able to use it.
And our lawyers when they drafted the bill said he does not have that authority.
So it would set a dangerous precedent.
And it's sort of, it's similar to the PFAS problems that we're having with that bill
where the governor seems to think that he can change, you know, how the money is spent.
And that's just going to be a problem.
But meanwhile, it kind of catches this whole piece of policy in the midst of that veto
and the lawsuit now.
Right.
So it's, unfortunately, my bill ends up sort of being a test case on this.
That's really unfortunate.
So hopefully it doesn't slow it down too much.
I know there are portions of it and I've been in touch with DPI about it.
I think, you know, as far as the testing and the assessments, they'll have the money for
that.
But hiring the coaches statewide, certainly they do not have that money.
So until this lawsuit settle, that won't happen.
You know, we are encouraging the schools as far as getting the training for the teachers,
buying new curriculum.
Go ahead and do all that.
You know, we will have the money there.
It's just, it's just the lawsuit has to play out.
So the governor's veto message also spoke to the idea that he wanted to give DPI the
flexibility of where to put this money.
Do you take exception to that?
You know, again, I don't so much as, because I think we're on the same page on it.
It's really, really unfortunate with this and against some other bills that he didn't
just talk to us, you know, because I think we can work out the details of this.
It's just that when you do that in an area that's never, where that's never been allowed
before, it's a problem.
And I know when he first did that, you know, I talked to the members of JFC and they were
back and forth, well, you know, should we challenge this?
But I think they decided that, you know, the precedent, it's too strong to ignore that
and let him do that because then it'll continue to escalate from there.
Is there anything to the idea that Republicans might have been concerned because he vetoed
a part of the appropriation that would have given per pupil increases to private choice
schools and independent charter schools?
You know, I haven't heard that be part of the concern with it.
You know, what I'm hearing from JFC is just that it's the precedent of it.
And yeah, there's a lot of distrust of DPI, but I think, you know, again, the substance
of what that parcel of that veto did is not the big deal.
It's just the precedent.
So as we've said, meanwhile, this Act 20 is going into effect in the fall.
Have you heard from educators about, you know, concerns they might have about being
able to be ready to do that?
Yeah.
And we, you know, we addressed some of those.
There were a lot of concerns, so we made the first assessment which would have taken
place in September.
We made that optional.
So they don't have to do that until later because we were trying to, you know, to speak
to their fears.
And now with this, of course, everybody's like, what's going on?
So again, we keep telling people, and I think DPI is giving them the same message, just
go ahead.
Go forward.
You know, the money's going to be there and it's really important that we get this going.
Because some of that money goes to these grants that would allow them to buy the curriculum,
for example.
Can districts, are they in a position to just go ahead and do it and wait for the culmination
of this lawsuit?
It's like in process right now, it goes to a briefing calendar in July or something.
Yeah, you know, I hope that they will.
I hope they'll make that purchase.
In the overall scheme of their entire budget, it's not that huge an amount.
In a lot of districts already borrow money just because they're waiting for the property
taxes to come in and that kind of thing.
You know, I think DPI has talked about maybe already beginning to process those grants,
so they're ready when the money is there that they can get them out.
But again, the money, it's going to come in.
This is just, it's a delay.
So in the research that you've done around this, important issue for you, how soon do
you think these kinds of changes will result in more children being able to read at a
proficient level?
Yeah, I expect it to be pretty rapid.
I think that in two years, we will see the difference in those kids.
And again, this is, you know, kids learning to read, there's not a more important thing
in their whole lives than we're going to read.
If they don't learn how to read, their chances of success in school and really in life are
so diminished that this is really important.
And I was, you know, gratified to hear Speaker Voss when he gave his end of the session wrap
up.
He said this was the most important thing that we passed this session to.
And I think it really is.
And so, you know, we have to get this going.
And I think we'll see progress pretty quickly.
Because going back to Wisconsin's reading test scores, what is that like for you as someone
who works on these issues to see that?
Yeah.
It's pretty awful.
You know, since 1992, at that time, I think we were sixth in the country overall and
now we're 28th.
And you know, Mississippi, who was always dead last, I mean, they have the highest minority
population.
They're the poorest state.
They are now tied with us because they instituted these changes several years ago now.
So when you see those kinds of results and, you know, our African-American students have
fallen from where they used to be kind of middle of the pack.
Now they're dead last in the country.
So we have got to turn that around.
It's just, it should really scare people to think of what that means to the future of
these kids.
And then you throw the pandemic in on top of it where some of those kids, and unfortunately,
especially in our big cities, didn't have any real instruction for a year.
Well, you can't take a year off from school when you're in first, second, third grade
and think you're going to make up for it later.
What do you know about the ability to take a child, a student, who is behind in reading,
had an older grade and implement this kind of instruction?
Does that also work?
It can work.
Yes.
It's much more difficult, but there are a lot of success stories.
And you know, unfortunately, what we see is that, I shouldn't say, unfortunately, but
the kids from, you know, higher income backgrounds, their parents will get that in those tutors
and they can catch them back up later.
But the kids in poverty, that doesn't happen, and they just fall by the wayside.
So it can work, and that's what, you know, one of the goals of this program is that
when we identify these kids that are struggling, we're going to have a special plan for them.
They're not going to come off of that plan until we have them at grade level.
And the parents have to sign off and say, yeah, we're good now.
You know, so you can catch up, it's more difficult to begin them off to a good start
in the beginning.
It's just, that's the way to do it.
Again, you have some confidence that this is all going to be worked out, and this will
be implemented even in really just several months.
It will be.
It's not going to roll out, you know, we're not, the reading coaches, that portion is
going to be difficult to afford right away without that money.
DPI just, they don't have that kind of, you know, fun, those kinds of funds just sitting
around and taking divert to that.
So that we're going to be slow in getting that out.
So we're not going to see the full effect.
And I, you know, it's unfortunate because we have to come back to JFC in a couple of
years and sort of renew this, and we need to have something to show for it.
So this is going to slow down that progress a little bit.
But you know, I'm very confident it's going to happen.
It's just a question of how long it's going to take to settle that lawsuit.
All right.
Representative Kitchins.
Thanks very much.
Well, thank you.
All right.
Thank you.
Last thing, Representative, I'm going to just have you leave one clap.
It's to.
All right.
There we go.
It's to sync the cameras.