WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:28.400 schools out and for many parents in Wisconsin, a big concern looms. Funding for a child care 00:28.400 --> 00:34.080 subsidy is about to run out and the political backstories behind a tuition hike at the University 00:34.080 --> 00:45.920 of Wisconsin and a $10 million PFAS settlement. This is Inside Wisconsin Politics. I'm Sean 00:45.920 --> 00:51.040 Johnson here with Anya Van Wachtenank, Zach Schultz and Rich Kramer in Eau Claire. Hey everyone. 00:51.520 --> 00:59.120 So Anya, how do we get to this point with this child care subsidy that is about to run it out 00:59.120 --> 01:06.480 right at a point in an election cycle and a year where costs are already this massive factor on 01:06.480 --> 01:10.240 everybody's minds? Yeah, I mean, this is like a story that we've all been covering incrementally 01:10.240 --> 01:14.880 for years and years. And when I say incrementally, what I mean is people ringing that alarm bell that 01:14.880 --> 01:20.320 we were heading towards this cliff. So go back in time to COVID. There were federal subsidies put 01:20.320 --> 01:24.080 in place for the child care industry while everything else is collapsing. This is one of these 01:24.080 --> 01:29.600 things. And so the child care counts program was initiated, which in Wisconsin looked like about 01:29.600 --> 01:36.320 $300 million going to child care providers for things like paying staff more to retain them, 01:36.320 --> 01:40.720 infrastructure needs, material needs, and also some amount of financial aid for families that 01:40.720 --> 01:47.120 were struggling. And so that was due to expire. And so then for years, we were all covering legislative 01:47.120 --> 01:53.040 fights over what to do about this funding that was going to go away program finally sunset last 01:53.040 --> 01:58.080 summer. And then a bridge program took over. And so now it is the bridge program that is due to 01:58.080 --> 02:04.000 expire. So again, we've sort of been pushing off this cliff for years and years and years. And now 02:04.000 --> 02:08.480 the thing that advocates and providers have been warning about is about to happen. This new report 02:08.480 --> 02:13.280 came out last week saying that potentially up to a quarter of child care providers could close 02:13.280 --> 02:18.560 their doors and almost certainly more than that are going to raise tuition after all of these funds 02:18.560 --> 02:22.800 go away. And Rich, this is an issue where the Democratic governor and Republican legislature 02:22.800 --> 02:29.200 definitely have not seen eye to eye when it comes to subsidizing child care refresh my memory a 02:29.200 --> 02:35.440 little bit on how they did see eye to eye a year ago and how they got this money that is about to run 02:35.520 --> 02:46.160 out now. So it goes back to this fight over $171 million. Governor Evers had access to this money, 02:46.160 --> 02:54.000 which was interest from those federal COVID era stimulus funds. So the interest generated from that 02:54.880 --> 03:01.120 is Wisconsin revenue in a sense. So there was this political battle. Republican said, well, 03:01.120 --> 03:06.080 that should be under our control or we should have a say in how you spend that. The governor 03:06.080 --> 03:12.640 said, no, this is federal money. And I remember watching a hearing on a bill that would have 03:12.640 --> 03:18.880 essentially given the legislature a lot more say over that money. And even an attorney with the 03:18.880 --> 03:25.200 nonpartisan legislative counsel said, well, it's kind of an open question. You know, they didn't 03:25.200 --> 03:31.680 answer it specifically. But that was a political battle. And during that discussion on the bill, 03:32.560 --> 03:38.880 one of the authors, Republican Eric Windburger, you know, toyed with the idea or taught he 03:38.880 --> 03:45.440 mused about impeaching governor Evers over this money. So that bridge fund tapped into that 03:46.000 --> 03:53.760 interest from the COVID stimulus funds. And that's how they were able to at least, 03:55.200 --> 03:59.600 you know, keep this program going to some extent. The providers were saying it's not enough. 04:00.160 --> 04:05.680 Democrats said it's not enough. But here we are. And that's what's been keeping the thing afloat. 04:05.680 --> 04:10.320 So Tony Evers said it's very important to me that we keep this child care subsidy going. And 04:10.320 --> 04:14.800 Republican said, well, it's very important to us that you get this money out of your bank account 04:14.800 --> 04:20.160 governor Evers. And so they found that agreement for a year. But Zach, it feels like now the money 04:20.160 --> 04:25.520 really is going to run out. Are providers going to close? What's going to happen? 04:26.240 --> 04:29.360 Well, you're going to hear a lot of noise about it. And that's for sure. And there's there's a 04:29.360 --> 04:33.840 reality on the ground of what it means for providers and for parents specifically who 04:33.840 --> 04:37.360 have to figure out where their kids are going to go if they can't afford this and still need to go 04:37.360 --> 04:42.160 work. But in a political season like this, this is going to be a top line messaging, 04:42.160 --> 04:46.400 especially for the Democrats running for governor. Republicans in the past and the 04:46.400 --> 04:50.240 legislature and we assume Tom Tiffany is kind of in this category have looked at, you know, 04:50.240 --> 04:54.400 the private sector means of trying to fix this child care issue of like, oh, let's lower 04:54.400 --> 04:58.880 regulations. Let's find some discounts or some savings elsewhere, but instead of directly 04:58.880 --> 05:03.760 funding them, they've never liked that welfare idea as Robin Voss would constantly call it. 05:03.760 --> 05:08.720 And so we don't see Republicans coming back to the table. This wasn't part of the grand bargain 05:08.720 --> 05:13.520 that we talked about for a month straight. So this is a dead issue politically. There's no one coming 05:13.520 --> 05:18.240 back in special session to find money to fix this. They've all known this date is here. The question 05:18.240 --> 05:23.920 is, what will it mean going into the fall? How much damage will we see leading up to September? 05:23.920 --> 05:28.960 And maybe because September means schools back in session, it'll be a little less of a hot button 05:28.960 --> 05:33.120 issue, but there will still be people talking about it and there will be Democrats campaigning 05:33.520 --> 05:38.480 on it, especially since they have a forum coming up that's invited to all the gubernatorial candidates, 05:38.480 --> 05:42.240 but five of the Democrats are going to appear to it. And it's being held by these child care 05:42.240 --> 05:46.080 providers and some of the groups that represent them, where they're just going to try to keep 05:46.080 --> 05:51.760 raising the profile of this heading into the fall. And I mean, it's kind of a subjective question 05:51.760 --> 05:57.520 here, but like, do you feel like this particular cost will resonate with people at the time when 05:57.520 --> 06:03.360 we're paying so much for gas and everything else? Does childcare kind of, I guess, kept people's 06:03.360 --> 06:07.760 attention when they have all this noise? If you have a child in your house that you have to pay 06:07.760 --> 06:12.560 childcare for? Yes, I remember 15, 20 years ago, before long before this was an issue, 06:12.560 --> 06:18.240 I had family friends that said I would actually save money by staying home and quitting my job 06:18.240 --> 06:22.320 and not pay making my truck payment and paying gas and insurance taxes and not having to pay 06:22.320 --> 06:26.880 childcare. That was a long time ago. And it's still the reality, even more so. I mean, 06:26.880 --> 06:31.920 more people than ever need to have two incomes to fund even a modest lifestyle in Wisconsin. 06:31.920 --> 06:36.160 And if you have small children, that means they need to go somewhere. As more and more families 06:36.160 --> 06:41.200 have split apart from the nuclear, larger umbrella of grandma or grandpa or aunts or uncles are around, 06:41.200 --> 06:45.280 you're relying on other people to raise your kids. That is just the reality that people 06:45.280 --> 06:50.320 are in right now. And if it's your reality, it's one of the biggest realities facing you. 06:50.320 --> 06:55.040 And Anya, any sense that this might affect specific races, whether it be the race for a 06:55.120 --> 06:59.120 governor or you name it? I mean, I think one of the interesting things here is that 06:59.120 --> 07:03.600 child care as like a need and as a household expense really spans its span to state, 07:03.600 --> 07:08.240 it spans political backgrounds, where that's not as much reflected is in the capital, 07:08.240 --> 07:12.480 where you have a little bit more of these hard line positions, especially within the Republican 07:13.120 --> 07:18.080 caucus in the assembly. There is a small but significant enough number of lawmakers who do 07:18.080 --> 07:23.280 believe in a more traditional family structure, who don't want to be subsidizing other people 07:23.280 --> 07:28.000 raising your children. And they are really trying to kind of legislate around that. And so it's 07:28.000 --> 07:33.680 not just about those sort of market solutions. And so I think that at that level, at the legislative 07:33.680 --> 07:38.640 level, we might really see this issue come to the fore because people who kind of don't care 07:38.640 --> 07:43.360 about some of those more cultural fights, they just want a little bit more money and a little bit more 07:43.360 --> 07:48.320 ease in their bank accounts. Will those people be motivated by not just this, but this in combination 07:48.320 --> 07:53.760 with gas prices and inflation. And then also, there's at least one district where one of these 07:53.760 --> 07:59.120 child care providers turned advocate is now running for a seat in the legislature. I don't know that 07:59.120 --> 08:02.880 this will be her only issue, but this will be one of her strongest issues. And that'll be really 08:02.880 --> 08:07.600 interesting to watch how resonant this is through the summer. That'd be Corrine Hendrickson, I believe 08:07.600 --> 08:12.240 the Democratic candidate, she's in a primary with Lisa White and Representative Jenna Jacobson 08:12.240 --> 08:16.880 against Howard Markline, the powerful co-chair of the legislature's budget committee. One of the 08:16.880 --> 08:22.080 most hotly washed races anyways. And he has really been clear that he does not support this. 08:22.080 --> 08:28.240 This is not an issue where there's kind of gray between what Democrats support and what 08:28.240 --> 08:33.920 Republicans support with this child care subsidy. There are stark differences. And so if they want 08:33.920 --> 08:39.600 to have that kind of debate out there, it would be certainly a chance for voters to see a difference 08:39.600 --> 08:45.040 in the way that these two parties view this issue in government. And that's why it was probably 08:45.120 --> 08:48.960 really helpful to have Rich's background of how we got to this point because some people may be 08:48.960 --> 08:54.720 confused to think there was a bipartisan solution to provide this funding. From COVID on, it was 08:54.720 --> 08:59.760 all federal money that Governor Evers directed into this program when the federal money ran out 08:59.760 --> 09:04.720 with Republicans fighting it every step of the way, repeatedly passing bills that said we would 09:04.720 --> 09:09.120 like oversight and how this federal money could spend. So you can't make that decision unilaterally 09:09.120 --> 09:12.960 govern Evers veto at every one of those bills. And it was this compromise in the last time, 09:12.960 --> 09:17.040 was not a compromise of, oh, we believe this should happen. It was, how do we spend this 09:17.040 --> 09:21.840 other pot of money that's still sitting here? So the COVID money is gone. This is now on the 09:21.840 --> 09:26.480 state's back or we will see the consequences in households and businesses across the state. 09:26.480 --> 09:31.040 And you alluded to this earlier, but I was looking back through public statements from the leaders 09:31.040 --> 09:36.480 as this big deal was negotiated, the deal that fizzled. And I don't think anybody was ever 09:36.480 --> 09:40.320 talking about putting some money behind child care as much as the governor has said it's a 09:40.400 --> 09:45.600 priority for him. So that kind of gives you the sense of the politics on that one. Rich, 09:45.600 --> 09:51.680 we've got another cost going up here for some Wisconsin residents or out of state residents 09:51.680 --> 09:58.080 who come here to go to school tuition going up at the University of Wisconsin. How much, first of 09:58.080 --> 10:07.120 all, and gives a sense of like, you know, how this came to be. Well, so the tuition increase 10:07.120 --> 10:14.480 specifically for tuition that the Board of Regents has approved is 2%. But there's another 3.5% 10:14.480 --> 10:20.800 increase with regard to what are called segregated fees. You name it, fees for, you know, facilities, 10:20.800 --> 10:28.880 et cetera, et cetera. So we're talking 2%, which is below the rate of inflation, of course. 10:29.920 --> 10:35.440 And, but the argument over tuition, I'm not sure if it ever had a beginning or an end, 10:35.520 --> 10:43.520 but this specifically goes back to 2013 when there was a tuition freeze after Republicans found out 10:44.080 --> 10:49.280 and loudly complained for years and years that the University of Wisconsin system had 10:50.240 --> 10:57.360 something like $500 to $600 million in what are called fund balances, tuition fund balances 10:57.360 --> 11:04.160 essentially reserves. And they had those reserves at a time when tuition had increased by 5.5% 11:04.720 --> 11:09.840 year after year after year. So that created a lot of heartburn among Republicans. 11:10.720 --> 11:17.920 And that in 2013, there was the tuition freeze not long after that Republicans when they had 11:17.920 --> 11:26.240 both houses of the legislature and Governor Walker in the governor's mansion. They cut $250 million 11:26.240 --> 11:32.880 from the UW budget, essentially saying, you've got those reserves, spend them down. So the 11:32.880 --> 11:38.160 universities had these directions to spend down the reserves. And they did. Over the years, 11:38.160 --> 11:45.920 the reserves went down by 60%. Some universities wound up in the red and had to do some, 11:46.720 --> 11:53.200 some pretty, you know, stark things to get their budgets under control. We saw layoffs, 11:53.200 --> 11:59.840 we saw a lot of buyouts, you know, I think of Oshkosh, you know, marathon. I mean, excuse me, 11:59.840 --> 12:06.720 Steven's point, a number of universities did that. So the tuition freeze was lifted officially in 12:07.360 --> 12:15.680 2021. The university system, the Board of Regents, tread carefully at first. They didn't immediately 12:15.680 --> 12:23.120 ask for a tuition increase. But since then, we've seen four consecutive tuition increases from the 12:23.120 --> 12:28.640 Board of Regents. And they haven't been the five and a half percent. They've generally been 12:30.320 --> 12:37.920 close to or below CPI, which, you know, is pretty high. But Republicans don't like it. And even 12:37.920 --> 12:44.880 when they lifted the tuition freeze in 2021, some Republican lawmakers said, be careful. If you, 12:44.880 --> 12:51.200 you know, get out of hand with this, we will freeze it again. So what we're seeing now is some 12:51.200 --> 12:57.680 Republicans, Tom Tiffany, running for governor, saying we need another tuition freeze. That freeze 12:57.680 --> 13:02.720 lasted for eight years. Universities said it was harming, you know, quality of education. But on 13:02.720 --> 13:10.960 the other hand, Republicans said, this is about access. This is about affordability. So, you know, 13:10.960 --> 13:16.000 the tuition increases back to back to back is just not good for Wisconsin families. 13:16.640 --> 13:22.560 But also, the university says our tuition rates are lower than other states. So it's a really 13:22.560 --> 13:28.320 complex issue. And it's just been years and years since they've been complaining and arguing over 13:28.320 --> 13:34.320 this. So certainly not somebody might be forgiven to look at that increase 2% and say, hey, what's 13:34.320 --> 13:40.640 the big deal? But this is something that goes back, boy, 16 years, there are 13 years at this point 13:40.720 --> 13:47.120 now that they've been fighting over this particular round of tuition. So I think it's an open question 13:47.120 --> 13:52.560 on this issue. This issue, like any other, is this going to be something that resonates in the 13:52.560 --> 13:56.480 campaign for governor? Anya, how about you go first? I mean, in some ways, I think that the 13:56.480 --> 14:02.000 arguments that we're seeing from Democrats and Republicans mirrors the property tax and K-12 14:02.000 --> 14:06.000 funding thing, right, which is that you have these kind of levers. And as you pull one, 14:06.000 --> 14:10.240 another one goes up. And so in this case, Democrats are saying, well, the state has been 14:10.240 --> 14:14.320 defunding the UW system. What do you expect? Of course tuition is going to have to go out. 14:14.320 --> 14:18.720 But one of those, you know, they're sort of in balance with one another. I think another point 14:18.720 --> 14:23.760 of tension that's going to be really interesting is the way that this affects Madison and in some 14:23.760 --> 14:29.280 ways Milwaukee compared to all the other schools, because Madison especially has this international 14:29.280 --> 14:34.560 cache, right, and can bring in students from out of state and from across the world who will pay 14:34.560 --> 14:39.520 full freight. And that offsets some of those costs in a way that Stephen's point, Oshkosh, 14:39.520 --> 14:44.160 are much more kind of aimed at local Wisconsin kids. You have Tom Tiffany now coming out and 14:44.160 --> 14:49.200 saying he wants to see fewer international students. He wants to put the UW back in the UW. What will 14:49.200 --> 14:55.120 that do for this kind of other revenue source that UW-Madison has and how that feeds into the system 14:55.680 --> 15:00.640 lots to play with? And to what extent that motivates voters who, again, maybe they face the day care 15:01.280 --> 15:06.480 charges. Now they're facing increased tuition. On the other end, it's expensive to raise a kid 15:06.480 --> 15:11.680 in Wisconsin. It could really be whether or not a residence could just be a matter of whether or not 15:11.680 --> 15:17.440 Tom Tiffany decides to put some resources behind it and put it in front of people and make it his 15:17.440 --> 15:22.960 message or focus on other stuff. There's a lot out there. And one of the things that's interesting 15:22.960 --> 15:28.080 is a report just came out from the Center for a report on the Wisconsin economy, which is Crow, 15:28.080 --> 15:33.200 which is this conservative think tank that was created by Walker in his administration at the UW 15:33.200 --> 15:38.640 with the goal of having a little more conservative-friendly economics ideas being floated out there as 15:38.640 --> 15:44.480 from the UW, giving it that stamp of authenticity. And they came out and said, actually UW's tuition 15:44.480 --> 15:49.840 is too low. It's below its peer institutions. It's actually freezing. It is subsidizing 15:49.840 --> 15:54.560 this private enterprise of kids that go to college and get this degree and then are very successful 15:54.640 --> 15:59.200 making their college tuition cheaper, subsidizes them at the expense of everyone else who's 15:59.200 --> 16:03.280 impacted by these costs. So it's interesting, even some of the conservative groups out there 16:03.280 --> 16:09.360 aren't supporting a freeze or keeping it this low. Zach, I want to turn to another issue with a 16:09.360 --> 16:15.600 long political backstory. There was this settlement this week or last week reached with Tycho, a 16:15.600 --> 16:23.920 PFAS manufacturer for $10 million with the state. This is a big deal. Tell us why and then tell us 16:24.560 --> 16:28.960 kind of the politics that led to this. Well, these lawsuits have been out there about PFAS 16:28.960 --> 16:34.400 contamination throughout. Tycho makes firefighting foam and equipment. And so they've contaminated 16:34.400 --> 16:39.040 the ground around there as we've learned more about what PFAS does and at forever chemical. 16:39.040 --> 16:44.160 But the history of this is fascinating because it we talk a lot about elections having consequences. 16:44.160 --> 16:49.760 This decision is a consequence of Supreme Court elections. So you have to go back and look at that 16:50.240 --> 16:55.120 transition that occurred from Democrats and liberals taking over the court because there were two 16:55.120 --> 17:00.320 major decisions that they issued in 2025 that allowed this to happen. The first is that with 17:00.320 --> 17:06.000 the DOJ lawsuit, they said, you do not actually have to create a new rule for each version of PFAS 17:06.000 --> 17:11.040 chemical or contamination that's out there in order to put into place these kinds of fines or 17:11.040 --> 17:15.360 sue people over the Wisconsin Spills Act about any things that spilled into our ground that can 17:15.440 --> 17:20.160 harm our waterways. So that was a big win that said you don't have to go back each time. 17:20.160 --> 17:25.920 But then another part, another separate lawsuit part of the Evers versus Markline lawsuit said, 17:25.920 --> 17:30.000 well, the state doesn't actually have to go and worry about the joint committee for the review 17:30.000 --> 17:34.960 of administrative rules to promulgate new rules for what the standards for PFAS are. 17:34.960 --> 17:39.680 And so when that happened, the Evers administration was able to push through new standards on PFAS 17:39.680 --> 17:44.240 contamination that matched stricter federal standards. Now, the DOJ doesn't have to worry 17:44.240 --> 17:48.400 about getting sign off from the Republicans for settling these lawsuits, and they can actually 17:48.400 --> 17:52.000 prosecute the Spills Act for anyone that's out there that's contaminated the ground, 17:52.000 --> 17:55.760 which allows settlements like this to happen and creating money to help people that have 17:55.760 --> 17:58.800 been impacted by this pollution. So you're not going to see any of that in the settlement 17:58.800 --> 18:03.120 language, obviously, but that's the legal environment that everybody is operating in now 18:03.120 --> 18:07.520 under this liberal majority on the court, which we know is going to last until at least 2030. 18:07.520 --> 18:12.080 Yeah. And it's not going to change any time soon. And on other issues, perhaps as well, 18:12.640 --> 18:15.920 in subtle ways, but you got it. The court matters. That's why we watch the court. 18:15.920 --> 18:20.480 The court always matters. That is very true. That's all the time we have for today. 18:20.480 --> 18:26.880 Thanks for joining us. This has been Inside Wisconsin Politics. Be sure to follow us on pbswisconsin.org 18:26.880 --> 18:33.840 wpr.org YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. 18:41.120 --> 18:44.800 How did you feel about two minutes for that instead of three thoughts fine? 18:44.800 --> 18:47.360 All right. They've been more than enough for them to pull off. 18:47.360 --> 18:50.560 I should just pull over to it. No, it's fine. 18:50.560 --> 18:51.840 Then you went again to the whole thing. 18:51.840 --> 18:57.840 Well, I wasn't.