WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:02.000 You 00:31.000 --> 00:46.480 Some can sometimes candidates choose their issues sometimes the issues choose them 00:46.840 --> 00:53.020 We look at a few items in the news this week from flot cameras to election integrity to the name of a great lake 00:53.360 --> 00:55.920 This is inside Wisconsin politics 01:01.000 --> 01:06.800 I'm showing Johnson here with my colleagues on you've been weked in Don Zach Schultz and rich Kramer in Eau Claire 01:06.800 --> 01:08.320 Hey everyone 01:08.320 --> 01:15.200 So flot cameras these cameras run by a private company that are used by law enforcement for vehicle 01:15.320 --> 01:20.240 Surveillance have been one of those slowly building issues in the US. I gotta say I was not 01:20.800 --> 01:28.640 Terribly aware of them until about April. It seems like they have entered our politics here though as we enter September 01:29.640 --> 01:32.760 Zach where do they fit when it comes to this year's elections? 01:33.020 --> 01:39.280 They are the new issue and it feels like they're a build-out from the data center argument this idea of AI 01:40.120 --> 01:48.920 Surveillance state how in control are we of our own destiny and these really interesting political topics that don't fit into the typical partisan narrative 01:48.920 --> 01:53.040 So they not only do we have to figure out how do people think about them? 01:53.040 --> 01:54.840 But the candidates have to figure out 01:54.880 --> 02:00.160 Where do we think about these issues because they don't fit into the usual pockets where they can say this is a Republican issue? 02:00.160 --> 02:04.320 This is a Democrat issue. They fall across all of them the idea that 02:05.160 --> 02:08.840 License plate readers which is essentially what these cameras are have been around for a long time 02:08.840 --> 02:14.240 Wisconsin doesn't allow them but many other states do red light cameras people have argued about whether those are fair 02:14.240 --> 02:17.440 Not you can get a ticket in the mail if you've driven through Illinois 02:17.440 --> 02:21.560 It had to pay a toll and write about the toll camera catching you or your license plate having something on it 02:21.560 --> 02:29.000 Those are old issues, but the idea now that some data center can just collect all that and automatically track you without any 02:29.400 --> 02:36.400 Idea that it's happening or people can use it for nefarious purposes or outside of a subpoena is bringing it into legal territory 02:36.600 --> 02:44.000 It builds off these questions about how involved should our government be when it comes to these and where should our politicians stand? 02:44.000 --> 02:50.280 And right now what we're seeing is the gubernatorial candidate saying I need to think real quick where I want to be on this because 02:50.680 --> 02:53.320 This could be the next thing to bite me in the butt in a few weeks 02:53.320 --> 02:57.880 If I don't have a strong position that falls in line with where my voters are and independent voters 02:58.120 --> 03:02.600 so on yeah, where are our candidates on these and you know 03:03.040 --> 03:06.280 What kind of political bedfellows are we seeing here? Yeah? 03:06.280 --> 03:10.600 I mean as I said, it doesn't fall into these kind of clear political narratives 03:10.600 --> 03:16.280 And so we are seeing kind of both candidates much like the data center issue kind of use this to go after one another 03:16.280 --> 03:22.040 So in particular Tom Tiffany this week has been trying to call David Crowley big brother David Crowley 03:22.040 --> 03:25.640 so first he was data center David Crowley knows big brother because of 03:26.040 --> 03:32.400 The ways in which flock was used in Milwaukee County for his part David count David David Crowley is now trying to 03:33.200 --> 03:38.320 Reduce the use of them in Milwaukee County. There's been changes to the policy in Milwaukee City as well 03:38.320 --> 03:39.760 And so both 03:39.760 --> 03:46.760 Candidates are really trying to kind of leverage people's feelings on both the right and the left sort of against this tool for their own political 03:46.960 --> 03:48.080 names 03:48.080 --> 03:52.280 Rich it strikes me that there is not a really clean 03:53.480 --> 04:00.680 Line of where conservative stands on this, you know, there's not a Republican position when it comes to flock cameras 04:01.840 --> 04:05.880 What's the sort of spectrum of where they stand on this? 04:05.880 --> 04:12.520 Yeah, it is surprising because you know, typically you think of the GOP as as 04:12.880 --> 04:14.040 You know 04:14.040 --> 04:20.000 lockstep with law enforcement and law enforcement has been using this technology for 04:20.600 --> 04:25.960 Homicide investigations all sorts of things, but we've also seen stories including two in Milwaukee 04:26.760 --> 04:33.080 Situations where officers are using it for personal reasons or just not for what it's intended unauthorized 04:33.680 --> 04:37.920 Use and that is what is part of what's getting people really upset 04:38.000 --> 04:44.960 So on the Republican side, it seems like you've got the more libertarian people who just don't like this idea of 04:45.440 --> 04:50.320 Surveillance at all you've got some on in the Republican Party that are saying 04:50.720 --> 04:54.280 Look, this is just another tool. It's been around for a long time 04:54.280 --> 05:01.840 They don't understand why it's a big deal right now and then you've got Tom Tiffany who's trying to thread that needle as Anya mentioned 05:02.520 --> 05:09.480 He's been attacking David Crowley claiming that Crowley is all about these things and and is a is a big 05:10.000 --> 05:16.160 supporter of them Crowley has said they are an important tool, but he said quote unchecked surveillance 05:16.600 --> 05:23.000 Isn't the answer so that speaks to the limits that the county is putting in place now and with regard to the sort of 05:23.040 --> 05:28.240 Valence Tiffany's position is kind of interesting. He says he would block state funds 05:29.240 --> 05:32.160 Going towards shared revenue to local governments 05:32.160 --> 05:37.600 He would essentially say this money can't be used to purchase these types of cameras or these systems 05:38.640 --> 05:42.120 Until we have a committee a task force take a look at it 05:42.120 --> 05:49.600 And that's interesting because in Congress Tiffany has voted to restore or to continue the the FISA 05:50.400 --> 05:52.400 surveillance which is 05:52.800 --> 05:54.000 essentially 05:54.000 --> 06:03.160 warrantless mass surveillance of cell phone conversations text messages electronic communications and that back in its days in the early 06:03.400 --> 06:05.400 2000s was a very 06:05.440 --> 06:10.120 Big political issue, but that's kind of died down somewhat in more recent years 06:10.360 --> 06:14.560 so we could imagine a different world right rich where 06:15.680 --> 06:21.720 This issue comes up and Tom Tiffany who's trying to run as this tough on crime candidate 06:22.000 --> 06:26.440 And wants to say let's not be Milwaukee since he's running in some Milwaukee candidate 06:26.520 --> 06:32.920 You could definitely imagine a world where he's saying we need to give police every tool that they want to fight crime 06:33.600 --> 06:36.480 Has there been any hint of that in what Tom Tiffany's saying? 06:39.040 --> 06:45.960 Well, he's he's essentially not saying he's gonna take this tool away, but he wants to put more safeguards in place 06:46.680 --> 06:48.760 Just in my social media stream 06:49.720 --> 06:53.920 Last night I saw two posts back-to-back on Twitter 06:54.560 --> 06:56.560 And one was Tiffany 06:57.760 --> 07:05.040 Calling David Crowley big brother Crowley or you know flock camera Crowley and the next post was someone with Tiffany's campaign 07:05.800 --> 07:09.920 Talking about a third-party ad highlighting the the fights in the melee 07:09.920 --> 07:12.760 We saw at the state fair and talk about talking about how 07:13.400 --> 07:20.280 Crowley is soft on crime, and it just struck me as as kind of ironic because you're saying he's 07:21.360 --> 07:23.600 Too supportive of this technologies that 07:24.440 --> 07:29.840 Land person uses but also soft on crime. So which isn't is there something 07:29.840 --> 07:36.880 Zach about Wisconsin's politics being sort of a little libertarian that makes this issue different than then in other states 07:36.880 --> 07:39.640 I mean, I think about you kind of referenced it there 07:39.640 --> 07:46.480 But there has been a push for years to have red light cameras here and that has been defeated in the legislature every time 07:47.440 --> 07:49.440 You know there was a time in the 07:49.440 --> 07:56.240 More distant past when there was resistance to giving police the ability to write tickets for not wearing a seat belt here is 07:57.080 --> 08:00.520 Wisconsin kind of a unique place when it comes to issues like flock 08:01.920 --> 08:08.520 Potentially is and there's the history that goes about your individual liberties a member of the motorcycle helmet issue in Wisconsin 08:08.520 --> 08:12.680 Being the home of Harley Davidson you didn't have to wear a helmet in Wisconsin for a long time 08:12.680 --> 08:17.640 And there were debates about whether it was okay to ban the use of cell phones and cars 08:17.640 --> 08:21.360 And there was already laws that covered that all these things that we've covered at the Capitol over the years 08:21.360 --> 08:27.040 And there is this mentality that we don't go too far or wait to see where other states go first 08:27.040 --> 08:29.440 And then figure out if it makes sense for Wisconsin 08:29.440 --> 08:35.720 And there's a lot of independence that just don't like the idea of being watched or being 08:35.920 --> 08:42.520 Followed and a lot of these came from like the sci-fi movies that we watched as kids that are now in reality 08:42.760 --> 08:48.200 And it's scary for some people because we've been trained for decades that when these things happen 08:48.200 --> 08:50.800 It's the bad times and they're happening now 08:50.800 --> 08:54.120 So people are hearing it from both the left and the right that hey 08:54.120 --> 08:58.660 This isn't what I signed up for even if it is a tool that has helped law enforcement 08:59.080 --> 09:04.600 track down people that have committed crimes the question is does it go too far and in this era of 09:05.440 --> 09:06.600 ice 09:06.600 --> 09:12.200 Bursting in the cities the question of whether police are going to come through your door. There's been left and right debates over 09:12.760 --> 09:14.240 warrantless 09:14.240 --> 09:20.320 Breaking into apartments to arrest people then they got the wrong door and all sorts of things that go beyond this where people are just scared of 09:20.320 --> 09:26.600 Hey, what if they get it wrong? I don't trust AI. They can't even repeat my my answer into my phone correctly 09:26.600 --> 09:29.240 How are they going to get this right when it comes to arresting someone? 09:30.080 --> 09:37.440 On yet, do we have any evidence that this is going to be an issue that moves people in November is or are people going to be voting on flock? 09:37.720 --> 09:41.760 You know, I don't know if in the same way that the data center issue is you know 09:41.920 --> 09:48.280 Kind of a rich text of an issue that a lot of people can read many different sort of problems or concerns into 09:48.280 --> 09:53.120 Flock it seems a little bit narrower and so I think it'll be up to the candidates to really try to 09:53.480 --> 09:57.280 Connect concerns with flock to other things in order to drive that 09:57.280 --> 10:02.440 So one of the arguments we've seen in other states because Wisconsin is not the only state kind of grappling with this right now 10:02.440 --> 10:05.680 Is that these contracts are very expensive? 10:05.680 --> 10:11.080 And so at a time that a lot of communities are really struggling and certainly a lot of people are really struggling financially 10:11.360 --> 10:14.520 And then your your town, you know, maybe can't pave your potholes 10:14.520 --> 10:19.160 But has a ten million dollar flock contract that is a connection that I think will register with voters 10:19.160 --> 10:25.520 I'm not sure if this issue in and of itself just the kind of AI and surveillance aspect will necessarily sway voters 10:25.520 --> 10:29.360 But as we always say, you only need to sway a few in Wisconsin to win the election 10:29.360 --> 10:32.320 Sure, I do feel like on something like this 10:32.320 --> 10:36.600 I have to take a step back sometimes because you know, we're journalists. We see a new issue out there 10:36.600 --> 10:41.280 We don't know how people are going to respond so exciting, you know, we feel like this must be the next big thing 10:42.000 --> 10:46.280 Marquette had that poll last week asking people about, you know, their most important issues 10:46.960 --> 10:51.640 5% said data centers and it was like about around 40% or so 10:52.280 --> 10:58.560 Plus that said the cost of living so I think the old issues may be still carry a little bit more weight 10:59.640 --> 11:05.920 We did get some other news this week that feels a little more familiar. There's an investigation 11:07.000 --> 11:11.760 CNN reported being launched by the Department of Homeland Security into 11:12.920 --> 11:19.760 non-citizen voter fraud in nine states including Wisconsin rich. Tell us about that 11:21.680 --> 11:27.000 Yeah, so this comes from an internal memo from the federal government that CNN obtained 11:27.120 --> 11:33.400 It listed the states of course, Wisconsin also George and Pennsylvania those two got my attention as well 11:33.400 --> 11:36.960 But a number of states included so 11:37.720 --> 11:39.720 This is essentially 11:39.720 --> 11:40.960 in a 11:40.960 --> 11:48.040 plans for a big investigation into non-citizen voting fraudulent voting ahead of the election and 11:48.440 --> 11:53.320 Traditionally, you know, this is what CNN reported historically the Department of Justice doesn't 11:55.240 --> 11:57.820 Launch these sorts of big announcements right before 11:58.120 --> 12:03.320 Intellectual just as a matter of kind of it's not a formal policy, but just best practice 12:03.880 --> 12:11.800 Department of Homeland Security doesn't have to follow that and it's got its own investigative unit that is going to be doing this work 12:12.440 --> 12:14.040 so 12:14.080 --> 12:17.480 But the backdrop here is that president Donald Trump has been 12:18.160 --> 12:23.960 You know making these broad claims without any evidence that there was massive voter fraud in 2020 12:23.960 --> 12:28.000 And that was why he lost the election to president Joe Biden 12:28.480 --> 12:31.560 and since then, you know more recently we see the 12:32.400 --> 12:39.000 Wisconsin I mean the US Department of Justice is suing Wisconsin to force us to force the state to turn over 12:39.560 --> 12:41.560 Sensitive voter registration 12:41.960 --> 12:44.120 documents and they're saying well, there could be 12:44.680 --> 12:49.640 Fraud we need to check and we're not sure Wisconsin is checking. That's the gist of the argument and 12:50.360 --> 12:53.840 You know the DOJ has sued dozens of other states as well 12:53.840 --> 13:00.200 They haven't won a single case and also the US Postal Service is has finalized a policy that would essentially 13:01.960 --> 13:06.440 Tell its people to not send absentee ballots to people who aren't on these federal lists 13:06.440 --> 13:11.080 That is held up in court right now, but it all serves as kind of this 13:12.040 --> 13:13.560 this 13:13.560 --> 13:20.120 backdrop of of what's happening with regard to this latest investigation news reported by CNN and 13:20.840 --> 13:28.680 Anya I can't think we've gotten kind of used to hearing about these types of investigations now even if they don't go anywhere 13:29.560 --> 13:35.480 Is there anything you know particularly unusual about this one though in terms of who's leading it? 13:35.480 --> 13:40.520 Yeah, I mean we've certainly as rich said there has been this kind of steady drumbeat since 2020 13:40.520 --> 13:44.120 It's the water that we swim in is this kind of allegations of election fraud 13:44.120 --> 13:49.840 I think at this point in my sleep I could type out the list of sort of nonpartisan and partisan investigations that all showed 13:49.840 --> 13:54.280 There was no election fraud, but that has not diminished the claims coming from the Trump administration 13:54.280 --> 13:59.560 What makes this so different is that this is DHS is like an arm of DHS that normally goes after 14:00.320 --> 14:05.320 human traffickers drug smuggling this kind of thing and they are looking into non-citizen voting 14:05.320 --> 14:10.800 Which is essentially a thing that does not happen. It is against state law. It's against federal law 14:11.120 --> 14:16.760 But we've been hearing sort of claims around the the possibility of this for a long time 14:16.760 --> 14:22.560 Wisconsin has has looked to pass a constitutional amendment about this, but now using this kind of 14:23.480 --> 14:27.640 Quite militarized quite intensive arm of the government to go after it 14:29.080 --> 14:34.840 First of all, they don't sort of have to follow DOJ guidance around what you can do around an election and I'll note 14:34.840 --> 14:37.640 You know, we're less than two months out from our election 14:38.200 --> 14:44.960 DOJ has guidance that says don't do really intense investigative things unless you absolutely have to do this close to an election because it can chill voting 14:44.960 --> 14:50.320 Etc DHS doesn't have to follow any of that and then meanwhile as they've been ramping up this action 14:50.600 --> 14:57.360 They've been saying at one point. They said that they found 250,000 non-citizens who are registered to vote in four states 14:57.360 --> 15:01.160 And then upon further investigation they've released a hundred and eighty 15:01.880 --> 15:05.120 ID numbers tied to people. They won't give any more information 15:05.120 --> 15:07.400 So they're kind of just at the very least 15:08.080 --> 15:14.320 Significantly muddying the waters with a huge amount of resources from the federal government again going into these critical midterm elections 15:14.640 --> 15:21.000 Zach, I don't feel like there's been a November election that goes by when there isn't some election issue that is 15:21.320 --> 15:26.200 You know tied up in the courts or fought over in the courts or in the court of a public opinion 15:26.680 --> 15:33.240 Is this one the big one in your 2026 or will we forget about this in a few months? 15:33.640 --> 15:39.200 Well in a few months, it'll still be being brought up because no matter what happens afterward someone's gonna cry foul 15:39.560 --> 15:43.080 The the question is of all the things that rich listed off 15:43.080 --> 15:50.880 And there's a lot of different avenues in which the Trump administration is clearly pursuing to push their narrative of false voting or fraud 15:50.880 --> 15:55.800 Which as we must repeat every time there is no evidence that has ever existed or does exist 15:55.800 --> 15:58.520 It does not change the outcome of any elections anywhere 15:59.360 --> 16:06.200 But that doesn't stop them from putting it out into the public consciousness and there's these the is it the postal service potentially? 16:06.400 --> 16:11.000 Not delivering ballots. Well, obviously that would have a tremendous impact on voting in Wisconsin 16:11.000 --> 16:15.000 That one seems like the courts are gonna hold it up. It seems less likely to come to fruition 16:15.000 --> 16:20.740 We've heard rumors from more than a year that Trump's gonna send ice in around the polls to try and scare voters 16:21.100 --> 16:25.380 There was kind of hand-waved away by a lot of Republicans saying no, of course that wouldn't happen 16:25.380 --> 16:27.740 This is America, you know that that's just you know 16:28.220 --> 16:34.100 People have not wanted to look too deeply into what could happen because it's never happened in American history before 16:34.540 --> 16:42.020 So there are legitimate fears that there could be law enforcement there at certain poll sites in certain swing states 16:42.020 --> 16:45.980 And we can all guess which ones they are that might influence the outcome of election 16:46.100 --> 16:52.860 The question is will it actually happen and then who will be the one crying fall afterwards about what that actually means in deterring voters 16:53.180 --> 16:54.980 Literally keeping voters from coming away 16:54.980 --> 17:03.060 But these kind of stories do come up every single cycle the question is will we see people with guns outside polls that represent the federal government? 17:03.060 --> 17:05.860 That's Gareaway voters. That's a big question 17:07.020 --> 17:14.140 Turning to something completely different and something I definitely did not see coming as we enter this, you know 17:14.140 --> 17:17.940 The home stretch of the election the president renamed a great lake 17:18.660 --> 17:23.500 According to an executive order from Lake Ontario to Lake America 17:24.060 --> 17:26.340 Anya when that happens 17:26.980 --> 17:32.740 People react to it candidates have to react to it. It's expected. What are our candidates saying about the president doing this? 17:32.740 --> 17:38.340 Well, most interestingly is Tom Tiffany again a close ally of President Trump and he essentially said 17:38.340 --> 17:41.700 I don't know that I like this. He said you know 17:41.700 --> 17:45.780 He sort of turned into a joke. He said unless we're changing Lake Michigan to Lake Wisconsin 17:46.020 --> 17:47.740 Otherwise, I don't think this is a good idea 17:47.740 --> 17:51.820 And so that allows him to put a little bit of air between himself and President Trump 17:51.820 --> 17:59.340 But on an issue that is not super from a policy standpoint not necessarily a super impactful decision 17:59.340 --> 18:04.380 What it is is kind of one of these more ostentatious decisions that Trump often likes to make or maybe a 18:04.780 --> 18:06.740 distracting kind of moment during a time like this 18:06.740 --> 18:13.100 So it allows Tiffany to put that air between them, but not necessarily on an issue that you know, it's very consequential 18:13.380 --> 18:15.180 And David Carly said oh come on 18:15.180 --> 18:18.580 This is the one that you picked to differentiate with the president on 18:18.940 --> 18:25.740 Zach just real quick as we wrap up here any sense that voters will take note of this in November 18:25.740 --> 18:30.220 I can't imagine this being the deciding issue for someone in an election 18:30.220 --> 18:36.020 But I'm sure there's one person out of three million voters that will say this is what matters to me most and they're probably a sailor 18:37.700 --> 18:39.700 Going after that sailor boat 18:40.980 --> 18:42.980 Crucial demographic in Wisconsin 18:43.340 --> 18:47.260 That's all the time we have for today. This has been inside Wisconsin politics 18:47.260 --> 18:53.100 Be sure to follow us on PBS Wisconsin org wpr.org YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts 18:53.100 --> 18:55.100 I 19:04.140 --> 19:06.140 Still looking at two on the clothes 19:09.980 --> 19:11.980 Okay, thanks 19:23.100 --> 19:25.100 Okay 19:32.300 --> 19:34.300 Okay 19:34.300 --> 19:36.300 sailor 19:37.380 --> 19:41.260 That's all the time we have for today. This has been inside Wisconsin politics 19:41.260 --> 19:47.420 Be sure to follow us on PBS Wisconsin org wpr.org YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts 19:53.100 --> 19:55.100 Okay 20:08.020 --> 20:10.020 Sure 20:24.100 --> 20:28.260 Sometimes can't but that word sometimes never knew 20:30.220 --> 20:34.520 Sometimes candidates choose their issues sometimes the issues choose them 20:34.980 --> 20:41.200 We look at a few items in the news this week from flot cameras to election integrity to the name of a great lake 20:41.700 --> 20:44.180 This is inside Wisconsin politics 20:53.100 --> 20:55.100 You