WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:21.880 The 00:21.880 --> 00:24.920 Democratic primary for governor it seems like two camps have 00:24.920 --> 00:26.320 finally emerged. 00:26.320 --> 00:29.800 Why is the establishment more united now and is it too 00:29.800 --> 00:31.920 little too late? 00:31.920 --> 00:39.960 This is inside Wisconsin politics. 00:39.960 --> 00:43.080 I'm Sean Johnson here with my colleagues Anya Van Wechtendank, 00:43.080 --> 00:45.480 Zach Schultz and Rich Kramer in Eau Claire. 00:45.480 --> 00:46.480 Hey everyone. 00:46.480 --> 00:47.480 Hello. 00:47.480 --> 00:51.520 So it seems like just a few weeks ago on this show we were 00:51.520 --> 00:55.000 all kind of wondering where all these candidates in this big 00:55.000 --> 00:56.920 primary fit. 00:56.920 --> 01:00.040 What were their political lanes? 01:00.040 --> 01:03.040 It seems like the mainstream front-runner at that point 01:03.040 --> 01:04.840 was less clear. 01:04.840 --> 01:08.920 Zach, why is it sort of coming into focus now and is there 01:08.920 --> 01:09.920 enough time? 01:09.920 --> 01:12.920 Well, I think you have to look at this primary in the context 01:12.920 --> 01:16.200 of the national political mood for primary voters, which are 01:16.200 --> 01:19.000 Democrats that are mainly angry at Donald Trump and his 01:19.000 --> 01:20.720 administration. 01:20.720 --> 01:23.440 If you look at it in that frame, the establishment's the bad 01:23.440 --> 01:24.440 guy. 01:24.440 --> 01:26.080 The establishment is national Democrats who haven't done 01:26.080 --> 01:27.760 enough to stand up to Trump. 01:27.760 --> 01:30.200 So tapping into those voters meant you couldn't be the 01:30.200 --> 01:33.480 establishment because then you were on the side of inertia. 01:33.480 --> 01:35.880 So Francesca Hong clearly moved to the left. 01:35.880 --> 01:37.640 She was going to fight, fight, fight. 01:37.640 --> 01:39.920 And a lot of the other Democrats in this race were trying 01:39.920 --> 01:42.440 to outflank her and they just could not. 01:42.440 --> 01:45.160 Even as late as a few weeks ago, David Crawley was not 01:45.160 --> 01:46.680 happy to be called the establishment. 01:46.680 --> 01:48.880 Mandela Barnes denied that there was any lane that he could 01:48.880 --> 01:51.400 be put into before he dropped out of the race. 01:51.400 --> 01:54.880 No one wanted to be pinned as establishment because that kind 01:54.960 --> 01:57.480 of denied them access to the voters that were upset and 01:57.480 --> 02:00.280 wanted change, that looked like more of the same. 02:00.280 --> 02:03.360 And so it is a little too late in the sense that if there's 02:03.360 --> 02:06.120 a lot of votes that have already been cast, but it is now 02:06.120 --> 02:08.480 clearly going that there has to be a centralized candidate 02:08.480 --> 02:11.600 of establishment power if they want to challenge the lane 02:11.600 --> 02:14.600 that Francesca Hong has already solidified for herself. 02:14.600 --> 02:16.360 And Anya, you've covered David Crawley. 02:16.360 --> 02:18.400 I mean, it seems like he still doesn't want that 02:18.400 --> 02:21.440 establishment label for a variety of reasons. 02:21.440 --> 02:22.080 Why is that? 02:22.080 --> 02:25.120 Yeah, I mean, part of it is what Zach just described, is that 02:25.120 --> 02:28.880 there's really a lot of anger towards the establishment for, 02:28.880 --> 02:32.320 I think, what Democrats feel or some Democrats feel has been 02:32.320 --> 02:36.040 inertia and sort of not enough of a fight and not wanting the 02:36.040 --> 02:36.960 status quo. 02:36.960 --> 02:38.920 But also, David Crawley has a particularly kind of 02:38.920 --> 02:40.680 interesting personal backstory. 02:40.680 --> 02:43.920 He comes from a really sort of impoverished challenge 02:43.920 --> 02:45.560 background in Milwaukee. 02:45.560 --> 02:49.600 And so up until he dropped out the first time in this race, 02:49.600 --> 02:52.000 he was kind of described as potentially not electable 02:52.000 --> 02:56.480 because statewide, there's sometimes negative feelings 02:56.480 --> 02:57.920 about Milwaukee. 02:57.920 --> 03:00.720 There is always the racial element of the fact that there's 03:00.720 --> 03:04.040 never been a black man elected to statewide office in Wisconsin. 03:04.040 --> 03:05.760 So there were all these questions about him. 03:05.760 --> 03:08.120 Then he comes back with the endorsement of Tony Evers. 03:08.120 --> 03:10.240 And all of a sudden, he's described as the establishment. 03:10.240 --> 03:12.560 One thing I've heard from a lot of his supporters is like, 03:12.560 --> 03:13.400 well, which one is it? 03:13.400 --> 03:16.120 Is it that he's too Milwaukee or is he too establishment? 03:16.120 --> 03:17.040 He can't be both. 03:17.040 --> 03:18.680 Why is he being held to the standard? 03:18.680 --> 03:21.040 And I think he's also trying to say, 03:21.040 --> 03:24.400 I've really kind of had to fight to get everything 03:24.400 --> 03:25.240 that I've ever had. 03:25.240 --> 03:26.560 I was not handed things. 03:26.560 --> 03:29.880 I am not on this kind of gilded establishment path. 03:29.880 --> 03:31.560 That said, I do have some of this backing 03:31.560 --> 03:33.520 and the resources that will allow me to win. 03:33.520 --> 03:36.040 So again, it's a little bit threading the needle of, 03:36.040 --> 03:38.800 I'm a viable candidate, but I will also stand up 03:38.800 --> 03:40.760 to the things that you're angry about. 03:40.760 --> 03:43.560 You know, I always worry when we start putting candidates 03:43.560 --> 03:45.800 into camps like this, whether this is just sort 03:45.800 --> 03:48.240 of a immediate narrative that we've created 03:48.240 --> 03:49.560 or if there's something real to it. 03:49.560 --> 03:52.360 But I feel like the fundraising numbers that came out 03:52.360 --> 03:56.280 this week, Rich, do put some substance behind the idea 03:56.280 --> 03:58.760 that there are these camps emerging 03:58.760 --> 04:01.400 between Francesca Hong and David Crowley. 04:01.400 --> 04:02.440 What did they show? 04:04.040 --> 04:05.560 Well, they showed a couple of things 04:05.560 --> 04:06.520 that were pretty notable. 04:06.520 --> 04:10.600 First of all, Crowley raised more than twice as much money 04:10.600 --> 04:13.200 during the month of July, the most of the month. 04:13.200 --> 04:18.200 Most of the month of July, he raised $776,000 there about 04:18.680 --> 04:22.200 and Hong brought in around $339,000. 04:22.200 --> 04:25.960 So that is a big sign that, at least in terms of money, 04:25.960 --> 04:28.480 Crowley's campaign is getting some backing. 04:28.480 --> 04:31.360 And the other sign that caught my attention was 04:31.360 --> 04:35.400 Governor Tony Evers, you know, who endorsed Crowley's campaign, 04:35.400 --> 04:36.960 which is definitely being framed 04:36.960 --> 04:39.080 as an alternative to Francesca Hong. 04:40.320 --> 04:44.760 He also gave $20,000 from Evers campaign account 04:44.760 --> 04:47.480 to Crowley's campaign account. 04:47.520 --> 04:49.360 That's not a lot of money, but I was talking 04:49.360 --> 04:52.320 with Anthony Tragoski, the political science professor 04:52.320 --> 04:53.920 over at UW-Lacross. 04:53.920 --> 04:56.240 And he said, you know, it's not a lot of money. 04:56.240 --> 04:58.680 $20,000 doesn't buy a whole lot, 04:58.680 --> 05:02.280 but it could be a signal to Evers donors, 05:02.280 --> 05:05.920 Evers supporters that I'm not just saying I support this, 05:05.920 --> 05:07.640 I'm putting my money behind it. 05:07.640 --> 05:11.160 So Tragoski was saying it's potentially possible 05:11.160 --> 05:14.040 that it'll open up some more of that money 05:14.120 --> 05:16.800 from the more moderate, quote unquote, 05:16.800 --> 05:18.640 establishment wing of the party. 05:18.640 --> 05:20.280 Yeah, I mean, I think anecdotally, 05:20.280 --> 05:23.120 I do see the message being received 05:23.120 --> 05:26.360 as some of these other candidates campaign signs 05:26.360 --> 05:28.440 in my neighborhood anyway, in Madison 05:28.440 --> 05:31.600 that we're supporting people like Sarah Rodriguez, 05:31.600 --> 05:35.000 for example, have changed to David Crowley. 05:35.000 --> 05:37.640 I guess my question though, Zach, is 05:37.640 --> 05:41.320 can Governor Tony Evers, popular governor, 05:41.320 --> 05:44.360 popular within the party, but a lame duck governor, 05:44.360 --> 05:48.200 this late in a primary campaign, 05:48.200 --> 05:50.160 kind of steer the ship like this. 05:50.160 --> 05:53.640 Can he tell everybody at once at the last minute, 05:53.640 --> 05:55.240 hey, vote for this guy? 05:55.240 --> 05:57.840 He can try, but the evidence throughout history 05:57.840 --> 06:00.040 shows that endorsements don't do a lot, 06:00.040 --> 06:01.560 especially late. 06:01.560 --> 06:05.120 Early endorsements show that a candidate has viability. 06:05.120 --> 06:07.960 Early endorsements from unions or from old political people 06:07.960 --> 06:10.560 can really surge momentum early in the game 06:10.560 --> 06:13.200 and it's necessary for someone like David Crowley 06:13.200 --> 06:15.000 to have boosted his name in a crowded field. 06:15.000 --> 06:16.600 Late in the game, it has less impact 06:16.600 --> 06:18.320 because people have made up their own minds 06:18.320 --> 06:19.840 and they're less likely to be swayed 06:19.840 --> 06:20.960 by one political figure. 06:20.960 --> 06:22.840 They can say, oh, that's nice, you like him, 06:22.840 --> 06:24.760 but I've already had time to make up my mind. 06:24.760 --> 06:27.080 And we've seen it with the Michigan governor 06:27.080 --> 06:29.200 and her endorsement and the Michigan Senate race 06:29.200 --> 06:30.720 and her candidate losing. 06:30.720 --> 06:32.800 We've seen it in other places where endorsements 06:32.800 --> 06:35.280 don't have the same power that maybe they did 06:35.280 --> 06:38.960 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago when bestowing the next person 06:38.960 --> 06:41.360 as an establishment figure meant a lot more 06:41.360 --> 06:42.600 than in today's politics. 06:42.600 --> 06:45.440 And the governor wants to frame it as sort of a binary choice, 06:45.440 --> 06:46.640 a two-candidate race. 06:46.640 --> 06:47.480 It's not that. 06:47.480 --> 06:49.480 There are still other candidates in the race, 06:49.480 --> 06:52.520 Senator Kelle DeRoyce, former Department of Administration 06:52.520 --> 06:54.400 Secretary Joel Brennan. 06:54.400 --> 06:56.880 Anya, how do they fit into this? 06:56.880 --> 07:01.040 And what role could they play in this primary? 07:01.040 --> 07:03.040 Yeah, I mean, we do end up kind of talking 07:03.040 --> 07:04.880 and we have for the last couple of weeks about it 07:04.880 --> 07:07.440 as almost a Crowley Hong race. 07:07.440 --> 07:10.800 And so they do end up kind of getting some perhaps 07:10.800 --> 07:13.000 shafting in the conversation from the media 07:13.000 --> 07:15.680 because I think there's a sense that this is Hong's race 07:15.680 --> 07:17.640 to lose is the phrase that you've used before. 07:17.640 --> 07:19.560 And so it's kind of Hong against everyone else. 07:19.560 --> 07:22.080 And so Crowley has been sort of the anointed one, 07:22.080 --> 07:25.520 but then Roy's and Brennan are just kind of in the mix there. 07:25.520 --> 07:27.360 And so I think it really is, again, 07:27.360 --> 07:30.280 when we talk about establishment versus progressive, 07:30.280 --> 07:33.120 the other three candidates just kind of get lumped together. 07:33.120 --> 07:35.800 They're obviously trying to distinguish themselves. 07:35.840 --> 07:37.200 Again, when we talk about endorsements, 07:37.200 --> 07:38.840 Kelle DeRoyce got this really important 07:38.840 --> 07:40.920 teacher's union endorsement that didn't seem 07:40.920 --> 07:42.880 to really shift anything early on. 07:42.880 --> 07:45.120 Whereas, you know, 10, 15 years ago, 07:45.120 --> 07:47.040 that would have been a much more meaningful thing. 07:47.040 --> 07:49.200 So again, I think it just kind of speaks to you. 07:49.200 --> 07:52.360 Francesca Hong is running a really unique, strange race. 07:52.360 --> 07:53.760 She has not raised as much money, 07:53.760 --> 07:55.120 but it doesn't seem to matter. 07:55.120 --> 07:59.760 She's making sort of headlines on her own sort of organically 07:59.760 --> 08:01.480 rather than through these paid ways. 08:01.480 --> 08:02.800 And then all these other candidates 08:02.800 --> 08:05.360 are just kind of trying to catch up. 08:05.360 --> 08:07.800 And she's not putting herself on TV. 08:07.800 --> 08:10.040 But other people are, you've had these Republican groups 08:10.040 --> 08:11.920 consistently putting her on TV ads, 08:11.920 --> 08:14.000 calling her liberal ahead of this primary. 08:14.000 --> 08:16.600 She has spent zero dollars on television, 08:16.600 --> 08:19.640 which is just unheard of in any type of like serious race. 08:19.640 --> 08:21.320 And she's not running just a serious race. 08:21.320 --> 08:23.360 She's running the leading race. 08:23.360 --> 08:26.280 She's doing some, you know, digital media and things like this. 08:26.280 --> 08:29.000 But a lot of her campaign is very grassroots, 08:29.000 --> 08:30.200 very kind of door to door. 08:30.200 --> 08:31.480 And so you're right, when we see, 08:31.480 --> 08:34.400 if you see her face on your TV or on your YouTube, 08:34.400 --> 08:36.320 it is because these Republican groups 08:36.320 --> 08:38.680 are paying for ads trying to get her over the finish line 08:38.680 --> 08:40.400 because they think she's beatable. 08:40.400 --> 08:42.120 But meanwhile, she kind of says, you know, 08:42.120 --> 08:44.560 thanks for calling attention to my policies. 08:44.560 --> 08:47.440 So our election is not happening in a vacuum. 08:47.440 --> 08:50.520 There is kind of this wave of Democratic socialist 08:50.520 --> 08:52.560 or Democratic socialist backed candidates 08:52.560 --> 08:56.000 around the country who have done exceedingly well 08:56.000 --> 08:59.440 in this year's politics compared to in previous years. 08:59.440 --> 09:02.720 This week in Michigan, Abdul El-Sayed, 09:02.800 --> 09:05.640 progressive candidate backed by Democratic socialist allies 09:05.640 --> 09:08.320 nearly won a primary there for a US Senate seat 09:08.320 --> 09:11.360 over an establishment backed congresswoman. 09:11.360 --> 09:13.440 Anya, I guess everyone has taken the exact same message 09:13.440 --> 09:14.680 from this one, right? 09:14.680 --> 09:17.280 Everyone's on the same page about what it means for here. 09:17.280 --> 09:18.560 Yeah, you know, in politics, 09:18.560 --> 09:21.600 everyone just reads everything in the exact same way. 09:21.600 --> 09:24.400 So of course, you know, again, this overarching question 09:24.400 --> 09:26.720 this year is like, what direction are Democrats going in? 09:26.720 --> 09:29.600 Are they going in this more progressive lane or not? 09:29.600 --> 09:31.560 And so I think for people who wanna see 09:31.560 --> 09:34.680 that DSA backing in these kind of more progressive 09:34.680 --> 09:39.240 leanings are viable in a way that they haven't been before. 09:39.240 --> 09:41.800 El-Sayed's victory is a signal of that. 09:41.800 --> 09:43.360 But David Crowley is saying, 09:43.360 --> 09:45.880 actually the fact that it was so close 09:45.880 --> 09:47.560 gives me hope for my campaign 09:47.560 --> 09:50.280 because he had all of this outside funding, 09:50.280 --> 09:52.080 he had all of this outside attention 09:52.080 --> 09:54.000 and he still didn't run away with it. 09:54.000 --> 09:56.720 And so even though, again, we see all these polling numbers 09:56.720 --> 09:58.120 and things like this that indicate 09:58.120 --> 10:00.800 that Hong is currently running away with the primary, 10:00.800 --> 10:02.680 he's saying we actually might be really surprised 10:02.680 --> 10:03.680 on primary night. 10:03.680 --> 10:05.800 Yeah, I mean, Rich, we haven't reported on this 10:05.800 --> 10:09.760 and we typically don't talk about these internal polls, 10:09.760 --> 10:13.440 but this one was interesting from the Crowley campaign 10:13.440 --> 10:16.000 where they said, hear me out. 10:16.000 --> 10:18.760 This is actually exactly what we wanna hear 10:18.760 --> 10:21.120 for Wisconsin's primary. 10:21.120 --> 10:23.840 And it sort of stepped through, I guess, 10:23.840 --> 10:27.560 all of the qualifications that you'd need to get there. 10:27.560 --> 10:30.800 But big picture, what is Crowley's camp saying 10:30.800 --> 10:33.880 in terms of why Michigan could mean good things for us? 10:35.560 --> 10:38.120 Well, for one, they're saying, 10:38.120 --> 10:41.720 this memo was saying that the primary polling 10:41.720 --> 10:44.480 that's been done in Wisconsin also 10:44.480 --> 10:47.000 just isn't the kind of polling you wanna do 10:47.000 --> 10:49.480 to really know where candidates are at. 10:49.480 --> 10:53.160 They said it was top line and not looking at people 10:53.160 --> 10:56.320 who actually vote in these sorts of primaries. 10:56.320 --> 11:00.000 The other thing it was that they were saying 11:00.000 --> 11:03.400 that primary voters, because of past numbers 11:03.400 --> 11:08.400 from Governor races before and Senate races, et cetera, 11:08.720 --> 11:13.720 show that in a primary, it's generally the oldest group, 11:14.040 --> 11:16.480 65 and up that vote the most. 11:16.480 --> 11:18.800 And they're saying, Crowley is the only candidate 11:18.800 --> 11:21.720 talking directly to those people right now. 11:21.720 --> 11:24.440 So as you mentioned, there were a lot of qualifiers 11:24.480 --> 11:27.320 to get to the part of the memo from the Crowley camp 11:27.320 --> 11:29.680 that said this is essentially a toss-up 11:29.680 --> 11:31.080 between the two of them. 11:32.080 --> 11:35.360 So it will be interesting because what I've also noticed 11:35.360 --> 11:39.080 is some pollers, pollsters have said, 11:39.080 --> 11:42.440 there's like this 10 to 13 point error rate 11:42.440 --> 11:44.240 kind of built into primary polling. 11:44.240 --> 11:46.680 I mean, that's what we saw in Michigan. 11:46.680 --> 11:51.200 El Syed was leading by 19 points in one of these polls 11:51.200 --> 11:55.200 and the race came out to be really close. 11:55.200 --> 11:58.160 He won, but not by those sorts of numbers. 11:58.160 --> 12:00.560 So what does that say for the polling 12:00.560 --> 12:03.000 that we've been relying on in Wisconsin 12:03.000 --> 12:05.280 to kind of get a sense of who is in the front 12:05.280 --> 12:08.640 and who's second place? 12:08.640 --> 12:09.600 I don't know. 12:09.600 --> 12:12.880 Yeah, Zach, if you help me walk through this, 12:12.880 --> 12:16.120 you had like basically four things you had to suppose. 12:16.120 --> 12:17.680 One was that the primary electorate 12:17.680 --> 12:19.000 is not what the polls show. 12:19.000 --> 12:20.880 It's more like 2018, 2020. 12:20.880 --> 12:22.200 That those are older voters 12:22.200 --> 12:23.720 and that they're gonna go for David Crowley. 12:23.720 --> 12:27.080 And that if you really boil it down to a two candidate race, 12:27.080 --> 12:29.200 which is not, he does even better. 12:29.200 --> 12:33.120 And when you inform them of David Crowley, 12:33.120 --> 12:35.720 that his numbers get even better and put him over the top. 12:35.720 --> 12:37.240 Yeah, there's a lot of assumptions built 12:37.240 --> 12:40.280 into this best case scenario that even then 12:40.280 --> 12:42.920 only puts it as a toss-up for David Crowley. 12:42.920 --> 12:45.280 But that is the odds that he's got against him 12:45.280 --> 12:47.240 in this scenario given all that we know 12:47.240 --> 12:50.000 about the campaigns as they stand right now 12:50.000 --> 12:51.600 and things that are different from Michigan 12:51.600 --> 12:53.760 as Michigan didn't have multiple candidates 12:53.760 --> 12:55.880 that had already secured absentee votes 12:55.880 --> 12:57.520 and then dropped out of the race. 12:57.520 --> 13:00.280 We don't know how many votes have already been cast 13:00.280 --> 13:02.720 for Sarah Rodriguez, for Mandela Barnes. 13:02.720 --> 13:03.560 But I know there are some, 13:03.560 --> 13:04.920 because I've talked to voters who said 13:04.920 --> 13:06.240 I already voted for them. 13:06.240 --> 13:07.880 Those votes aren't coming back. 13:07.880 --> 13:08.720 They are gone. 13:08.720 --> 13:09.920 They will not impact the winner 13:09.920 --> 13:11.480 other than the margin of difference 13:11.480 --> 13:14.080 and questions of, hey, would that have made a difference 13:14.080 --> 13:15.720 if they had dropped out earlier 13:15.720 --> 13:17.000 or if those voters had waited 13:17.000 --> 13:19.560 or if they could have spoiled those ballots and recast them? 13:19.560 --> 13:20.760 Those are all things we won't know. 13:20.760 --> 13:22.920 A lot of this is, in hindsight, 13:22.920 --> 13:24.520 it'll all make a lot more sense. 13:24.520 --> 13:26.600 Right now, it's a lot of projection. 13:26.600 --> 13:29.280 And it's Crowley saying, hey, don't count me out. 13:29.280 --> 13:31.360 Don't just front-runner away to Fran 13:31.360 --> 13:32.880 because she's in the lead right now. 13:32.880 --> 13:34.120 I have a legitimate chance. 13:34.120 --> 13:36.920 So if you believe this talk about establishment 13:36.920 --> 13:39.360 and I'm the man, then vote for me. 13:39.360 --> 13:40.480 All right. 13:40.480 --> 13:42.840 As our election becomes the next big thing 13:42.840 --> 13:45.640 in US politics, we're seeing more national attention 13:45.640 --> 13:47.600 and scrutiny of Francesca Hong 13:47.600 --> 13:49.720 that includes scrutiny of her social media feed, 13:49.720 --> 13:54.080 old tweets, including one where she talked about Thanksgiving. 13:54.080 --> 13:56.720 In a since-deleted tweet from 2020, she said, quote, 13:56.720 --> 13:59.840 cancel Thanksgiving, should have done this in 162021, 13:59.840 --> 14:03.280 or 1621, if it takes a worldwide pandemic for us 14:03.280 --> 14:05.880 to realize we should stop celebrating colonialism 14:05.880 --> 14:07.360 and the original super spreader event 14:07.360 --> 14:11.240 that killed indigenous folks and women, so be it. 14:11.240 --> 14:13.760 An open question to the group here. 14:13.760 --> 14:17.280 Is this tweet relevant in 2026? 14:18.840 --> 14:21.360 It is in that people are talking about it. 14:21.360 --> 14:22.400 We're talking about it here. 14:22.400 --> 14:24.320 It's made national news, national headlines, 14:24.320 --> 14:26.080 and you know who loves to hear about this. 14:26.080 --> 14:28.480 It's the Republicans in Tom Tiffany. 14:28.480 --> 14:31.960 So I think the context that can be added to this tweet 14:31.960 --> 14:34.840 is 2020 is when Francesca Hong was first running 14:34.840 --> 14:38.440 for the assembly, running in a very liberal district 14:38.440 --> 14:40.760 in Madison in an open primary. 14:40.760 --> 14:42.600 So everything she was saying, 14:42.600 --> 14:45.760 whether she believes it now or wants to talk about it now, 14:45.760 --> 14:50.280 she was saying to a liberal primary audience in Madison 14:50.280 --> 14:53.960 in 2020, coming out of the George Floyd protests, 14:53.960 --> 14:56.560 coming out of COVID, all the situations around that. 14:56.560 --> 14:57.800 When you put it in context, 14:57.800 --> 15:00.680 her tweets look like a candidate running for that office 15:00.680 --> 15:01.800 at that time. 15:01.800 --> 15:03.720 The fact that she is a different candidate running 15:03.720 --> 15:05.520 for a different office today, 15:05.520 --> 15:07.320 we've seen this from lots of politicians who say, 15:07.320 --> 15:08.680 yeah, let's not talk about that. 15:08.680 --> 15:10.400 That was my race for state senate. 15:10.400 --> 15:12.320 That was my race for assembly. 15:12.320 --> 15:14.960 Not every politician will always love the stuff 15:14.960 --> 15:17.800 that's dug up from past votes or past campaigns, 15:17.800 --> 15:19.120 but she does have to deal with it. 15:19.120 --> 15:22.200 And so that is what her campaign is having to handle right now. 15:22.200 --> 15:23.840 Yeah, I guess the man I think about politics 15:23.840 --> 15:26.880 as sort of a, the customer is always right, business, 15:26.880 --> 15:28.720 the customer being the voter, 15:28.720 --> 15:30.920 where even if you don't think they're right, 15:30.920 --> 15:33.760 you're in the business as a candidate of winning votes. 15:33.760 --> 15:36.120 And so if enough people want to pay attention 15:36.120 --> 15:38.000 to a tweet about Thanksgiving, 15:38.000 --> 15:40.360 you got a choice to make, Rich, 15:40.360 --> 15:42.360 do you either kind of hope it moves on 15:42.360 --> 15:44.480 to the next news cycle, 15:44.480 --> 15:45.640 or you say something about it? 15:45.640 --> 15:47.560 How has Francesca Hong been handling it? 15:48.880 --> 15:52.320 Well, to me it seems like she's tried both. 15:52.320 --> 15:55.640 She's, initially she was saying things like, 15:55.640 --> 15:58.800 well, if Republicans want to focus on that sort of stuff, 15:58.800 --> 16:01.320 you know, we're busy reaching out to voters 16:01.320 --> 16:04.320 and building up our support, et cetera, et cetera. 16:04.320 --> 16:06.000 So she was kind of waving it off. 16:06.080 --> 16:11.080 But this week we saw a Hong kind of backtrack 16:11.360 --> 16:13.880 on that tweet in particular, 16:13.880 --> 16:17.720 and a whole other slew of tweets calling for, 16:17.720 --> 16:20.640 from the past, calling for abolishing police, 16:20.640 --> 16:23.920 abolishing ICE, abolishing the US Senate, et cetera, et cetera. 16:23.920 --> 16:28.320 So, but with regard to the Thanksgiving tweet this week, 16:28.320 --> 16:30.840 she said to CNN, 16:31.880 --> 16:34.640 she didn't really say whether or not she still supports, 16:34.640 --> 16:36.320 you know, canceling Thanksgiving. 16:36.320 --> 16:39.320 She said that holiday brings a lot of pain 16:39.320 --> 16:40.760 to a lot of communities, 16:42.040 --> 16:45.160 but she stopped short of giving a definitive answer. 16:45.160 --> 16:48.240 And then on Wednesday she was asked by Politico 16:48.240 --> 16:52.920 about that tweet, and they asked what her favorite holiday is, 16:52.920 --> 16:54.360 and she said, thanksgiving. 16:54.360 --> 16:57.440 She said, I don't want to cancel it, I love it. 16:57.440 --> 17:01.000 So that's obviously kind of backtracking, 17:01.000 --> 17:04.440 whether that's because she saw this as a liability 17:04.440 --> 17:07.520 or she's trying to put it to rest, I don't know. 17:07.520 --> 17:10.360 But that, and also she said, you know, 17:10.360 --> 17:12.880 in the televised debate not long ago, 17:12.880 --> 17:15.760 and in these media interviews at the national level, 17:15.760 --> 17:19.800 she said, well, I as governor can't defund the police. 17:19.800 --> 17:24.240 And, you know, she essentially walked back those as well. 17:24.240 --> 17:27.920 So it's been really interesting to see not surprising 17:27.920 --> 17:31.720 for a person in that position, but always notable. 17:31.760 --> 17:33.880 And, you know, you alluded to the office 17:33.880 --> 17:35.040 that she's running for now, 17:35.040 --> 17:37.200 you get a different flavor of tweet from her, 17:37.200 --> 17:41.560 or I guess in a post on X now, then you did then. 17:41.560 --> 17:43.720 She's made recent posts about Thanksgiving, 17:43.720 --> 17:45.960 this one from last year, 17:45.960 --> 17:50.160 where she talked about supporting the Goodman Center 17:50.160 --> 17:51.660 in a fun drive. 17:52.920 --> 17:54.680 A crucial note there, she is dressed up 17:54.680 --> 17:57.280 in one of those pictures as a turkey. 17:57.280 --> 18:00.640 So seems like fully embracing the Thanksgiving holiday 18:00.680 --> 18:01.640 right now. 18:01.640 --> 18:03.880 Anya, we can talk about social media 18:03.880 --> 18:06.440 without mentioning dirt McGurk, 18:06.440 --> 18:09.040 a social media account run by David Crowley. 18:09.040 --> 18:14.040 Circa 2010 has his social media past come back to haunt him. 18:14.280 --> 18:17.520 I mean, it was kind of the first opposition dump 18:17.520 --> 18:19.600 that came out after he re-entered the race. 18:19.600 --> 18:21.840 And so these are old tweets, as you mentioned, 18:21.840 --> 18:23.720 from about 15 years ago, 18:23.720 --> 18:28.080 very reflective of a 24-year-old sort of out in the world 18:28.080 --> 18:29.080 with this new technology, 18:29.080 --> 18:31.000 where you get to just announce every single thought 18:31.000 --> 18:32.840 that you're having as you're having it, 18:32.840 --> 18:35.800 if we all recall what Twitter was like in the year 2010. 18:35.800 --> 18:37.840 So that was a short news cycle. 18:37.840 --> 18:39.840 I don't think it was a fairly significant one. 18:39.840 --> 18:42.920 He certainly said, you know, I was a knucklehead, 18:42.920 --> 18:45.400 I don't stand by some of the more problematic 18:45.400 --> 18:46.160 parts of those tweets. 18:46.160 --> 18:47.760 And I do kind of, you know, 18:47.760 --> 18:51.160 to play devil's advocate about how voters feel about tweets, 18:51.160 --> 18:53.920 I have this question of whether, you know, 18:53.920 --> 18:55.480 voters sort of see what they want to see. 18:55.480 --> 18:57.920 And if you want to oppose David Crowley, 18:57.920 --> 19:00.840 you can point to these tweets as a reason why you don't. 19:00.840 --> 19:04.040 Trust him or like him or approve of his character. 19:04.040 --> 19:05.400 And likewise with Fran Hong. 19:05.400 --> 19:07.120 If you do like them, then you can, 19:07.120 --> 19:08.960 it's very easy to kind of dismiss it. 19:08.960 --> 19:12.080 I saw some of Fran Hong's supporters pulling out other times 19:12.080 --> 19:13.800 that she has knocked other holidays. 19:13.800 --> 19:15.640 She's talked about how in restaurants, 19:15.640 --> 19:17.240 she wants to kick out everyone who shows up 19:17.240 --> 19:19.920 in Halloween costumes, that she hates Valentine's Day, 19:19.920 --> 19:21.800 like working those shifts in restaurants. 19:21.800 --> 19:23.680 So making more of a joke about it, 19:23.680 --> 19:26.400 that this is just learning more about their personality 19:26.400 --> 19:27.240 and their character. 19:27.240 --> 19:31.080 And I think, you know, we've spent 10, 15 years now 19:31.080 --> 19:33.320 having so much exposure to politicians 19:33.320 --> 19:34.920 through social media in a way 19:34.920 --> 19:36.560 that they don't need to be mediated 19:36.560 --> 19:38.120 through kind of traditional media. 19:38.120 --> 19:40.040 But I think a lot of voters are kind of used to 19:40.040 --> 19:41.800 these more human sides. 19:41.800 --> 19:44.040 I mean, we also saw with Graham Plattner, 19:44.040 --> 19:47.000 what I would describe as like really kind of horrible 19:47.000 --> 19:52.000 social media posts about rape victims and other things 19:52.320 --> 19:53.720 that voters really kind of excused 19:53.720 --> 19:56.520 because they wanted to see the best in this politician 19:56.520 --> 19:59.240 that they really admired and supported his policies. 19:59.240 --> 20:00.920 And so I think to a certain extent, 20:00.920 --> 20:03.560 we're going to see how important these kinds of things are. 20:03.560 --> 20:08.640 And I don't really know that it moves your average voter 20:08.640 --> 20:10.560 other than to sort of put them in the camp 20:10.560 --> 20:12.400 that they might have been going to either way. 20:12.400 --> 20:14.560 Yeah, in an era when the president has been known 20:14.560 --> 20:16.360 to say some stuff on social media frequently. 20:16.360 --> 20:18.480 To govern through social media, yeah. 20:18.480 --> 20:21.800 These are sort of tamed by comparison in Wisconsin. 20:21.800 --> 20:23.080 That's all the time we have for today. 20:23.080 --> 20:24.040 Thanks for joining us. 20:24.040 --> 20:26.560 This has been Inside Wisconsin Politics. 20:26.560 --> 20:28.880 Be sure to follow us on pbswisconsin.org, 20:28.880 --> 20:33.080 wpr.org, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts. 20:38.800 --> 20:39.640 Two to three minutes.