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The

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Democratic primary for governor it seems like two camps have

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finally emerged.

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Why is the establishment more united now and is it too

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little too late?

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This is inside Wisconsin politics.

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I'm Sean Johnson here with my colleagues Anya Van Wechtendank,

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Zach Schultz and Rich Kramer in Eau Claire.

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Hey everyone.

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Hello.

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So it seems like just a few weeks ago on this show we were

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all kind of wondering where all these candidates in this big

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primary fit.

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What were their political lanes?

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It seems like the mainstream front-runner at that point

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was less clear.

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Zach, why is it sort of coming into focus now and is there

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enough time?

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Well, I think you have to look at this primary in the context

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of the national political mood for primary voters, which are

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Democrats that are mainly angry at Donald Trump and his

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administration.

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If you look at it in that frame, the establishment's the bad

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guy.

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The establishment is national Democrats who haven't done

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enough to stand up to Trump.

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So tapping into those voters meant you couldn't be the

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establishment because then you were on the side of inertia.

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So Francesca Hong clearly moved to the left.

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She was going to fight, fight, fight.

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And a lot of the other Democrats in this race were trying

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to outflank her and they just could not.

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Even as late as a few weeks ago, David Crawley was not

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happy to be called the establishment.

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Mandela Barnes denied that there was any lane that he could

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be put into before he dropped out of the race.

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No one wanted to be pinned as establishment because that kind

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of denied them access to the voters that were upset and

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wanted change, that looked like more of the same.

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And so it is a little too late in the sense that if there's

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a lot of votes that have already been cast, but it is now

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clearly going that there has to be a centralized candidate

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of establishment power if they want to challenge the lane

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that Francesca Hong has already solidified for herself.

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And Anya, you've covered David Crawley.

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I mean, it seems like he still doesn't want that

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establishment label for a variety of reasons.

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Why is that?

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Yeah, I mean, part of it is what Zach just described, is that

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there's really a lot of anger towards the establishment for,

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I think, what Democrats feel or some Democrats feel has been

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inertia and sort of not enough of a fight and not wanting the

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status quo.

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But also, David Crawley has a particularly kind of

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interesting personal backstory.

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He comes from a really sort of impoverished challenge

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background in Milwaukee.

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And so up until he dropped out the first time in this race,

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he was kind of described as potentially not electable

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because statewide, there's sometimes negative feelings

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about Milwaukee.

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There is always the racial element of the fact that there's

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never been a black man elected to statewide office in Wisconsin.

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So there were all these questions about him.

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Then he comes back with the endorsement of Tony Evers.

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And all of a sudden, he's described as the establishment.

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One thing I've heard from a lot of his supporters is like,

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well, which one is it?

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Is it that he's too Milwaukee or is he too establishment?

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He can't be both.

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Why is he being held to the standard?

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And I think he's also trying to say,

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I've really kind of had to fight to get everything

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that I've ever had.

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I was not handed things.

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I am not on this kind of gilded establishment path.

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That said, I do have some of this backing

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and the resources that will allow me to win.

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So again, it's a little bit threading the needle of,

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I'm a viable candidate, but I will also stand up

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to the things that you're angry about.

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You know, I always worry when we start putting candidates

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into camps like this, whether this is just sort

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of a immediate narrative that we've created

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or if there's something real to it.

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But I feel like the fundraising numbers that came out

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this week, Rich, do put some substance behind the idea

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that there are these camps emerging

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between Francesca Hong and David Crowley.

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What did they show?

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Well, they showed a couple of things

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that were pretty notable.

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First of all, Crowley raised more than twice as much money

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during the month of July, the most of the month.

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Most of the month of July, he raised $776,000 there about

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and Hong brought in around $339,000.

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So that is a big sign that, at least in terms of money,

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Crowley's campaign is getting some backing.

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And the other sign that caught my attention was

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Governor Tony Evers, you know, who endorsed Crowley's campaign,

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which is definitely being framed

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as an alternative to Francesca Hong.

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He also gave $20,000 from Evers campaign account

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to Crowley's campaign account.

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That's not a lot of money, but I was talking

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with Anthony Tragoski, the political science professor

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over at UW-Lacross.

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And he said, you know, it's not a lot of money.

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$20,000 doesn't buy a whole lot,

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but it could be a signal to Evers donors,

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Evers supporters that I'm not just saying I support this,

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I'm putting my money behind it.

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So Tragoski was saying it's potentially possible

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that it'll open up some more of that money

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from the more moderate, quote unquote,

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establishment wing of the party.

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Yeah, I mean, I think anecdotally,

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I do see the message being received

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as some of these other candidates campaign signs

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in my neighborhood anyway, in Madison

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that we're supporting people like Sarah Rodriguez,

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for example, have changed to David Crowley.

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I guess my question though, Zach, is

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can Governor Tony Evers, popular governor,

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popular within the party, but a lame duck governor,

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this late in a primary campaign,

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kind of steer the ship like this.

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Can he tell everybody at once at the last minute,

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hey, vote for this guy?

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He can try, but the evidence throughout history

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shows that endorsements don't do a lot,

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especially late.

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Early endorsements show that a candidate has viability.

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Early endorsements from unions or from old political people

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can really surge momentum early in the game

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and it's necessary for someone like David Crowley

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to have boosted his name in a crowded field.

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Late in the game, it has less impact

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because people have made up their own minds

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and they're less likely to be swayed

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by one political figure.

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They can say, oh, that's nice, you like him,

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but I've already had time to make up my mind.

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And we've seen it with the Michigan governor

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and her endorsement and the Michigan Senate race

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and her candidate losing.

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We've seen it in other places where endorsements

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don't have the same power that maybe they did

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20, 30, 40, 50 years ago when bestowing the next person

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as an establishment figure meant a lot more

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than in today's politics.

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And the governor wants to frame it as sort of a binary choice,

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a two-candidate race.

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It's not that.

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There are still other candidates in the race,

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Senator Kelle DeRoyce, former Department of Administration

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Secretary Joel Brennan.

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Anya, how do they fit into this?

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And what role could they play in this primary?

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Yeah, I mean, we do end up kind of talking

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and we have for the last couple of weeks about it

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as almost a Crowley Hong race.

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And so they do end up kind of getting some perhaps

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shafting in the conversation from the media

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because I think there's a sense that this is Hong's race

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to lose is the phrase that you've used before.

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And so it's kind of Hong against everyone else.

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And so Crowley has been sort of the anointed one,

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but then Roy's and Brennan are just kind of in the mix there.

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And so I think it really is, again,

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when we talk about establishment versus progressive,

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the other three candidates just kind of get lumped together.

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They're obviously trying to distinguish themselves.

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Again, when we talk about endorsements,

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Kelle DeRoyce got this really important

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teacher's union endorsement that didn't seem

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to really shift anything early on.

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Whereas, you know, 10, 15 years ago,

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that would have been a much more meaningful thing.

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So again, I think it just kind of speaks to you.

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Francesca Hong is running a really unique, strange race.

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She has not raised as much money,

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but it doesn't seem to matter.

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She's making sort of headlines on her own sort of organically

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rather than through these paid ways.

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And then all these other candidates

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are just kind of trying to catch up.

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And she's not putting herself on TV.

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But other people are, you've had these Republican groups

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consistently putting her on TV ads,

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calling her liberal ahead of this primary.

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She has spent zero dollars on television,

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which is just unheard of in any type of like serious race.

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And she's not running just a serious race.

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She's running the leading race.

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She's doing some, you know, digital media and things like this.

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But a lot of her campaign is very grassroots,

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very kind of door to door.

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And so you're right, when we see,

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if you see her face on your TV or on your YouTube,

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it is because these Republican groups

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are paying for ads trying to get her over the finish line

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because they think she's beatable.

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But meanwhile, she kind of says, you know,

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thanks for calling attention to my policies.

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So our election is not happening in a vacuum.

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There is kind of this wave of Democratic socialist

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or Democratic socialist backed candidates

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around the country who have done exceedingly well

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in this year's politics compared to in previous years.

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This week in Michigan, Abdul El-Sayed,

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progressive candidate backed by Democratic socialist allies

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nearly won a primary there for a US Senate seat

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over an establishment backed congresswoman.

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Anya, I guess everyone has taken the exact same message

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from this one, right?

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Everyone's on the same page about what it means for here.

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Yeah, you know, in politics,

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everyone just reads everything in the exact same way.

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So of course, you know, again, this overarching question

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this year is like, what direction are Democrats going in?

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Are they going in this more progressive lane or not?

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And so I think for people who wanna see

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that DSA backing in these kind of more progressive

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leanings are viable in a way that they haven't been before.

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El-Sayed's victory is a signal of that.

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But David Crowley is saying,

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actually the fact that it was so close

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gives me hope for my campaign

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because he had all of this outside funding,

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he had all of this outside attention

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and he still didn't run away with it.

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And so even though, again, we see all these polling numbers

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and things like this that indicate

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that Hong is currently running away with the primary,

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he's saying we actually might be really surprised

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on primary night.

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Yeah, I mean, Rich, we haven't reported on this

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and we typically don't talk about these internal polls,

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but this one was interesting from the Crowley campaign

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where they said, hear me out.

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This is actually exactly what we wanna hear

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for Wisconsin's primary.

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And it sort of stepped through, I guess,

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all of the qualifications that you'd need to get there.

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But big picture, what is Crowley's camp saying

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in terms of why Michigan could mean good things for us?

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Well, for one, they're saying,

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this memo was saying that the primary polling

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that's been done in Wisconsin also

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just isn't the kind of polling you wanna do

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to really know where candidates are at.

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They said it was top line and not looking at people

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who actually vote in these sorts of primaries.

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The other thing it was that they were saying

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that primary voters, because of past numbers

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from Governor races before and Senate races, et cetera,

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show that in a primary, it's generally the oldest group,

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65 and up that vote the most.

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And they're saying, Crowley is the only candidate

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talking directly to those people right now.

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So as you mentioned, there were a lot of qualifiers

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to get to the part of the memo from the Crowley camp

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that said this is essentially a toss-up

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between the two of them.

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So it will be interesting because what I've also noticed

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is some pollers, pollsters have said,

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there's like this 10 to 13 point error rate

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kind of built into primary polling.

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00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,680
I mean, that's what we saw in Michigan.

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El Syed was leading by 19 points in one of these polls

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and the race came out to be really close.

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He won, but not by those sorts of numbers.

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00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:00,560
So what does that say for the polling

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00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:03,000
that we've been relying on in Wisconsin

276
00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,280
to kind of get a sense of who is in the front

277
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,640
and who's second place?

278
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I don't know.

279
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,880
Yeah, Zach, if you help me walk through this,

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you had like basically four things you had to suppose.

281
00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:17,680
One was that the primary electorate

282
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is not what the polls show.

283
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,880
It's more like 2018, 2020.

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That those are older voters

285
00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:23,720
and that they're gonna go for David Crowley.

286
00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,080
And that if you really boil it down to a two candidate race,

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00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,200
which is not, he does even better.

288
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:33,120
And when you inform them of David Crowley,

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00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,720
that his numbers get even better and put him over the top.

290
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:37,240
Yeah, there's a lot of assumptions built

291
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,280
into this best case scenario that even then

292
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,920
only puts it as a toss-up for David Crowley.

293
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,280
But that is the odds that he's got against him

294
00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:47,240
in this scenario given all that we know

295
00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,000
about the campaigns as they stand right now

296
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,600
and things that are different from Michigan

297
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,760
as Michigan didn't have multiple candidates

298
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,880
that had already secured absentee votes

299
00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,520
and then dropped out of the race.

300
00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,280
We don't know how many votes have already been cast

301
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,720
for Sarah Rodriguez, for Mandela Barnes.

302
00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:03,560
But I know there are some,

303
00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:04,920
because I've talked to voters who said

304
00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:06,240
I already voted for them.

305
00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:07,880
Those votes aren't coming back.

306
00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:08,720
They are gone.

307
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:09,920
They will not impact the winner

308
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:11,480
other than the margin of difference

309
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,080
and questions of, hey, would that have made a difference

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00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:15,720
if they had dropped out earlier

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00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,000
or if those voters had waited

312
00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,560
or if they could have spoiled those ballots and recast them?

313
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:20,760
Those are all things we won't know.

314
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,920
A lot of this is, in hindsight,

315
00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:24,520
it'll all make a lot more sense.

316
00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:26,600
Right now, it's a lot of projection.

317
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,280
And it's Crowley saying, hey, don't count me out.

318
00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,360
Don't just front-runner away to Fran

319
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:32,880
because she's in the lead right now.

320
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,120
I have a legitimate chance.

321
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,920
So if you believe this talk about establishment

322
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,360
and I'm the man, then vote for me.

323
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:40,480
All right.

324
00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,840
As our election becomes the next big thing

325
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,640
in US politics, we're seeing more national attention

326
00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,600
and scrutiny of Francesca Hong

327
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,720
that includes scrutiny of her social media feed,

328
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:54,080
old tweets, including one where she talked about Thanksgiving.

329
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:56,720
In a since-deleted tweet from 2020, she said, quote,

330
00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,840
cancel Thanksgiving, should have done this in 162021,

331
00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:03,280
or 1621, if it takes a worldwide pandemic for us

332
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:05,880
to realize we should stop celebrating colonialism

333
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,360
and the original super spreader event

334
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:11,240
that killed indigenous folks and women, so be it.

335
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,760
An open question to the group here.

336
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:17,280
Is this tweet relevant in 2026?

337
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,360
It is in that people are talking about it.

338
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:22,400
We're talking about it here.

339
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,320
It's made national news, national headlines,

340
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,080
and you know who loves to hear about this.

341
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,480
It's the Republicans in Tom Tiffany.

342
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,960
So I think the context that can be added to this tweet

343
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,840
is 2020 is when Francesca Hong was first running

344
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:38,440
for the assembly, running in a very liberal district

345
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:40,760
in Madison in an open primary.

346
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:42,600
So everything she was saying,

347
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,760
whether she believes it now or wants to talk about it now,

348
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:50,280
she was saying to a liberal primary audience in Madison

349
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,960
in 2020, coming out of the George Floyd protests,

350
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,560
coming out of COVID, all the situations around that.

351
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:57,800
When you put it in context,

352
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,680
her tweets look like a candidate running for that office

353
00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:01,800
at that time.

354
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,720
The fact that she is a different candidate running

355
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,520
for a different office today,

356
00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,320
we've seen this from lots of politicians who say,

357
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:08,680
yeah, let's not talk about that.

358
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:10,400
That was my race for state senate.

359
00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,320
That was my race for assembly.

360
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,960
Not every politician will always love the stuff

361
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,800
that's dug up from past votes or past campaigns,

362
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:19,120
but she does have to deal with it.

363
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,200
And so that is what her campaign is having to handle right now.

364
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,840
Yeah, I guess the man I think about politics

365
00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,880
as sort of a, the customer is always right, business,

366
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,720
the customer being the voter,

367
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:30,920
where even if you don't think they're right,

368
00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,760
you're in the business as a candidate of winning votes.

369
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,120
And so if enough people want to pay attention

370
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,000
to a tweet about Thanksgiving,

371
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,360
you got a choice to make, Rich,

372
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:42,360
do you either kind of hope it moves on

373
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,480
to the next news cycle,

374
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:45,640
or you say something about it?

375
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,560
How has Francesca Hong been handling it?

376
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,320
Well, to me it seems like she's tried both.

377
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,640
She's, initially she was saying things like,

378
00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,800
well, if Republicans want to focus on that sort of stuff,

379
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,320
you know, we're busy reaching out to voters

380
00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,320
and building up our support, et cetera, et cetera.

381
00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:06,000
So she was kind of waving it off.

382
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:11,080
But this week we saw a Hong kind of backtrack

383
00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,880
on that tweet in particular,

384
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,720
and a whole other slew of tweets calling for,

385
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,640
from the past, calling for abolishing police,

386
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,920
abolishing ICE, abolishing the US Senate, et cetera, et cetera.

387
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,320
So, but with regard to the Thanksgiving tweet this week,

388
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,840
she said to CNN,

389
00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,640
she didn't really say whether or not she still supports,

390
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,320
you know, canceling Thanksgiving.

391
00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,320
She said that holiday brings a lot of pain

392
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:40,760
to a lot of communities,

393
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,160
but she stopped short of giving a definitive answer.

394
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,240
And then on Wednesday she was asked by Politico

395
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,920
about that tweet, and they asked what her favorite holiday is,

396
00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:54,360
and she said, thanksgiving.

397
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,440
She said, I don't want to cancel it, I love it.

398
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:01,000
So that's obviously kind of backtracking,

399
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,440
whether that's because she saw this as a liability

400
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,520
or she's trying to put it to rest, I don't know.

401
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,360
But that, and also she said, you know,

402
00:17:10,360 --> 00:17:12,880
in the televised debate not long ago,

403
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,760
and in these media interviews at the national level,

404
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:19,800
she said, well, I as governor can't defund the police.

405
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:24,240
And, you know, she essentially walked back those as well.

406
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,920
So it's been really interesting to see not surprising

407
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,720
for a person in that position, but always notable.

408
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,880
And, you know, you alluded to the office

409
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,040
that she's running for now,

410
00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,200
you get a different flavor of tweet from her,

411
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,560
or I guess in a post on X now, then you did then.

412
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,720
She's made recent posts about Thanksgiving,

413
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:45,960
this one from last year,

414
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:50,160
where she talked about supporting the Goodman Center

415
00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:51,660
in a fun drive.

416
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:54,680
A crucial note there, she is dressed up

417
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,280
in one of those pictures as a turkey.

418
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,640
So seems like fully embracing the Thanksgiving holiday

419
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:01,640
right now.

420
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:03,880
Anya, we can talk about social media

421
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,440
without mentioning dirt McGurk,

422
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,040
a social media account run by David Crowley.

423
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:14,040
Circa 2010 has his social media past come back to haunt him.

424
00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,520
I mean, it was kind of the first opposition dump

425
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,600
that came out after he re-entered the race.

426
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,840
And so these are old tweets, as you mentioned,

427
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:23,720
from about 15 years ago,

428
00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:28,080
very reflective of a 24-year-old sort of out in the world

429
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:29,080
with this new technology,

430
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,000
where you get to just announce every single thought

431
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:32,840
that you're having as you're having it,

432
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:35,800
if we all recall what Twitter was like in the year 2010.

433
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,840
So that was a short news cycle.

434
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,840
I don't think it was a fairly significant one.

435
00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,920
He certainly said, you know, I was a knucklehead,

436
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,400
I don't stand by some of the more problematic

437
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:46,160
parts of those tweets.

438
00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:47,760
And I do kind of, you know,

439
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:51,160
to play devil's advocate about how voters feel about tweets,

440
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,920
I have this question of whether, you know,

441
00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:55,480
voters sort of see what they want to see.

442
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,920
And if you want to oppose David Crowley,

443
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,840
you can point to these tweets as a reason why you don't.

444
00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,040
Trust him or like him or approve of his character.

445
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,400
And likewise with Fran Hong.

446
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,120
If you do like them, then you can,

447
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:08,960
it's very easy to kind of dismiss it.

448
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:12,080
I saw some of Fran Hong's supporters pulling out other times

449
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:13,800
that she has knocked other holidays.

450
00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,640
She's talked about how in restaurants,

451
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,240
she wants to kick out everyone who shows up

452
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,920
in Halloween costumes, that she hates Valentine's Day,

453
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,800
like working those shifts in restaurants.

454
00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:23,680
So making more of a joke about it,

455
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,400
that this is just learning more about their personality

456
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:27,240
and their character.

457
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:31,080
And I think, you know, we've spent 10, 15 years now

458
00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,320
having so much exposure to politicians

459
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:34,920
through social media in a way

460
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:36,560
that they don't need to be mediated

461
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,120
through kind of traditional media.

462
00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:40,040
But I think a lot of voters are kind of used to

463
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:41,800
these more human sides.

464
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,040
I mean, we also saw with Graham Plattner,

465
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,000
what I would describe as like really kind of horrible

466
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:52,000
social media posts about rape victims and other things

467
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:53,720
that voters really kind of excused

468
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,520
because they wanted to see the best in this politician

469
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,240
that they really admired and supported his policies.

470
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:00,920
And so I think to a certain extent,

471
00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,560
we're going to see how important these kinds of things are.

472
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,640
And I don't really know that it moves your average voter

473
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,560
other than to sort of put them in the camp

474
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,400
that they might have been going to either way.

475
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,560
Yeah, in an era when the president has been known

476
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,360
to say some stuff on social media frequently.

477
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:18,480
To govern through social media, yeah.

478
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,800
These are sort of tamed by comparison in Wisconsin.

479
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,080
That's all the time we have for today.

480
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:24,040
Thanks for joining us.

481
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,560
This has been Inside Wisconsin Politics.

482
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,880
Be sure to follow us on pbswisconsin.org,

483
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,080
wpr.org, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

484
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:39,640
Two to three minutes.