WEBVTT

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You

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Another major shake-up in the Democratic primary for governor as Mandela Barnes drops out

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How does this change the race and what are the remaining candidates saying as they make their closing pitches to voters?

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This is inside Wisconsin politics

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I'm showing Johnson here with my colleagues Anya Van Wechtendank, Zach Schultz and Rich Kramer and Eau Claire

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Hey, everyone hello

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So just want to seem like this Democratic primary for governor couldn't get any Wilder. Let's see

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Let's go through the candidates here. David Crowley drops out Sarah Rodriguez drops out David Crowley drops back in

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We now have Mandela Barnes dropping out of the race some pretty big names there

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Anya, what happened? I mean, I will get a little behind-the-scenes

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Intrigue for our viewers. We taped a whole different show right before this talking about the debate

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And we will get into that later and we got the news in our ear pieces that Mandela Barnes had dropped out

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So he released a video on social media and interestingly, you know doesn't endorse another candidate looked pretty

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Dejected and essentially said we all can tell the writing is on the wall of who the nominee is going to be

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I assume he is alluding to Francesca Hong who is just carrying all these polls

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And he said, you know, the number one thing to do is to beat Tom Tiffany

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So it was not a ringing endorsement

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It did not seem like a an impassioned sort of choice to to step down

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But certainly some some breaking news, you know, we're less than two weeks out from primary day

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Yeah, we got to tell you we're recording this on a Thursday afternoon

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So by the time you watch it or hear it you may know more about this story than we do right at this moment

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We can tell you right now from the journal Sentinel the decisions by the Barnes camp

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They said came amid reporting into allegations that Barnes was taking advantage of his role in the party to have sexual encounters with young adult women

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We also read from Politico the announcement comes as Democratic officials in the state brace for damaging

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Media reports. So I mean Zach there are different circumstances under which a candidate can drop out

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It can be received in different ways

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How would you characterize this one?

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Well, this is different from past episodes including the flip side of this when Ben Mandela Barnes took advantage of this in

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2022 in a Senate run Senate run when the other opponents in that primary dropped out and they dropped out gracefully saying

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The only way at that time for them to win the nomination would be to go negative and hurt the party

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And they decided not to do that and they were rewarded for that as being team players down the road

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Sarah God Luski was appointed treasurer

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We've seen examples of this almost two decades ago Scott Walker was gonna run for governor in 2006

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Party officials say hey, why don't you clear the field for Mark Green?

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He did and then he was the nominee in 2010 when party officials remembered he was graceful about that

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So on one hand it could be seen as men Dalibar and seeing the writing on the wall

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He wasn't gonna win, but he has a future in Democratic politics in Wisconsin

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That would be the normal way to look at this as saying well

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There's lots of future races he could run for but then when you combine this with the reporting that we're hearing and the rumors that have been

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We're running around

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Circles for quite a while now it doesn't have that same tone to it

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So this looks more of getting ahead of the damaging news that could be dropping less Graham Plattner in

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The East Coast Senate race and more of this keep your head down and get out of the way

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So it becomes less of a distraction and he's forced to bow out disgracefully as opposed to bowing out in his own terms

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Yeah, you know, you alluded to there, but in his message. He did not say Francesco Hong's name

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He didn't say I'm dropping out because she's the the front runner and that's good

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He didn't say I'm dropping out and I support a challenger because he's kind of had some fights with them recently

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Rich you

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reported on Mandela Barnes this campaign and in 2022 he entered this race and

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Presented himself as the front runner and it seemed like that sort of

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Slowly slipped away during this campaign and now this quite a shocking arc to his story this year

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Yeah, it's been something else

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I mean in terms of name recognition

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He did enter the race with more than any of the other candidates including Republican Congressman Tom Tiffany

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And that was because of the 2022 Senate lost to Ron Johnson. It was a close race

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But there was and there was a lot of advertising so his name got around

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but

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That race really hurt him also

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Beyond whatever is going to be reported or is being reported at this moment about any improprieties. He

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He was damaged from that

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Senate lost to Ron Johnson among Democrats even before he jumped into the race for governor

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There was an op-ed that had former lieutenant governor

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Barbara Lawton a Democrat that is very involved in the party said that he shouldn't get in the race that he's a proven

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He's proven that he can't win statewide

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etc, so there was that and

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Then we started seeing in the earlier days of this

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You know gubernatorial primary among the Democrats where people were dropping out

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They weren't endorsing Barnes like they did in 2022. So that was a signal then

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Governor Evers endorsed someone besides Barnes who you know Barnes and Evers served together

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For years, so that was a sign and now here we are

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It's really been

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Just a really interesting ride for Barnes

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So his departure kind of leaves the race in some ways where it was where there seems to be this growing consensus out there

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That this is Francesca Hong's race to lose

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She is a Democratic socialist, which is sort of defined this campaign. She was asked about her views at this week's debate

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Let's give a listen to what she had to say

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What Democratic socialism is is a form of government that puts working-class people first that puts work first

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The policies that we have been working on permanent affordability has broad bipartisan support in every corner of the state

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Anya you have covered her campaign you profiled her for Wisconsin public radio

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How is she presenting her brand of politics to primary voters and also potentially critics as this primary closes out

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Yeah, I think she's been really consistent not just throughout this campaign

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But you know throughout her political career

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She was a member of the Democratic Socialist Caucus in the Assembly

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She's running as a Democratic Socialist on the Democratic ticket

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And so you've seen that a lot in her policy positions

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I think a little bit what we saw on the debate stage was her trying to

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nuance some of that perhaps for a more general election again as she is this kind of run-away favorite at the moment

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I saw some criticism actually from national DSA members on social media who were saying essentially

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Oh, she's not socialist enough

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But I think she understands that there is going to be a pretty ready-made line of attack from Republicans

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Based on some of her past statements based on calling for defunding the police based on aligning with certain, you know

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Sort of far left more like agitated sort of online figures that that gives them easy things to kind of clip

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Which can really kind of be hard to oppose from a more kind of nuanced position

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And so I think we saw her on the debate stage kind of trying out some of these more

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Biteable clippable ways of approaching her politics. Yeah part of the question that led to that answer there was hey

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The Democratic Socialists of America stand for getting rid of prisons getting rid of the Senate

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Are you with them and she said she didn't agree with them on everything?

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But that could do kind of sense from her a pivot toward the general election in terms of the way that she's answering these questions

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You know on I don't know you name it tax policy on

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Defund the police, you know, what stood out to you?

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She's definitely new on saying those positions because in in politics if you're explaining you're losing that that phrase has been around for a long time

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So she's trying to explain to general election voters that she's not that kind of socialist

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She's a Democratic socialist because the Republicans are comparing her to Venezuela

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I mean, that's that's Tom Tiffany's line of attack that I heard on Tuesday night during the debate

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I was covering one of his events and he's saying well if you want to know about socialism

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You have to look at Venezuela when they're eating the animals and they're eating their shirts and there's nothing available for anybody

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And that's what's coming to Wisconsin if you looked Francesca Hong

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That's what you're going to hear from them

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So her trying to go more on the lines of the old Milwaukee socialists like the sewer socialists

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They were called if like let's work on infrastructure and public schools and the public good the public welfare

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She's trying to get ahead of some of those attacks and explain that's where her socialist policies lie

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Lesson the international communist socialist stuff that we hear from the countries that fall apart that claim to be socialist and rich

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You covered the debate

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She was asked about I mean everybody there on that debate stage was saying let's tax millionaires to pay for stuff in state government

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she

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Got a little more specific than others and yet it seemed like potentially an incomplete answer based on her record

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Yeah, that's right her

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Her website has all kinds of very specific numbers and also she's been in the assembly for some time now and

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She's taken a lot of votes. She's introduced a lot of legislation. So on the debate stage

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Essentially she was saying well for millionaires. It'd be a 1%

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Tax increase to something like 8.6 versus

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You know whatever it is now so

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She said that but right away online

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Democrats even were saying well, you know actually she's got a plan to

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Create a new tax bracket and set it at 17 point something percent

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Which is true. That was part of a plan she put out and in the legislature. So

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she she talked

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really generally about it and

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So then others had to go and dig up what she said in the past. Yeah

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We did mention last week that we were gonna wait for another story to develop this police shooting in Madison

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And you've heard all the candidates for governor come out and say, you know, we need to have a swift investigation of that

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Zach I think it's fair to say that Francesca Hong's response to the shooting was certainly the most attention getting

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She went out to the site of the shooting with the bullhorn and called it an execution

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What is she saying now and you know why'd she use that word in her words?

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Well, she was asked during the debate. Would you use would you make the same statement as governor and her answer was no

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Because the governor has a bigger bigger megaphone and essentially looting it would be appropriate for the governor to make that statement

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What's interesting is you're supposed to campaign how you a govern and she did make that statement as a candidate?

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Only a few weeks away from a primary and the video of her doing it the crowd is clearly trying to goad her into using the word murder

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And she at that moment takes a pause and then says execution

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So she was even calibrating what she was saying in that moment

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This wasn't as much of an off-the-cuff statement as you might think when you cover her in speeches

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She is very measured in her in her thought and her speech. She pauses before she answers a question

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She's thinking about it's not just letting the words fly like we see on social media

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Sometimes there's some politicians and then worry about retracting it later

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So for her to use that word was a deliberate intentional thing and then to say well

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I wouldn't as governor does call into question like what is the line then why use it now in this case and not?

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And we know it will be used against her tom tiffany's already talking about that

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They're attacking the democratic candidate simply be as the street where the shooting took place is still shut down by protesters

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Saying that madison needs could control the streets and that as governor he would obviously have that street open by now

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So they're going to use this against her as a candidate assuming that she wins this primary

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And the question is how does she continue explaining those statements and those votes to general election voters?

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Uh, let's talk about david krowley milwaukee county's executive who got back in this race

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As the francesco hong alternative and i got to think that mandela barns departure from this race

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Potentially changes the the calculus for him

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Um, you know rich what were we hearing from you know, david krowley

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as it relates to francesco hong up to this point in the race and you know has it been catching on is there as

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They're assigned that this theory that krowley supporters had is actually working

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Well, um, yeah, the the claim that we've heard from david krowley and some of the other democratic candidates is that

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The republican governor's association is essentially trying to get hong elected

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During the primary so that it would be easier for tom tiffany to defeat her. So that was the line going into it. Um, and

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They

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the

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I lost it. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I I will say one thing about those those ads that you mentioned the republican ads

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I think they are kind of

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Doing there's they're serving two goals right now for republicans. They're kind of getting bang for their buck in a couple ways

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Um, I do think there's a pretty strong case to be made that they were there to kind of prop up francesco hong

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They're saying that she's a very liberal candidate in these liberal media markets

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But I think now

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republicans do view her as the general election candidate in the way that they're talking about her

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So they are kind of getting a head start on these attacks in some way

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um, anya

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David krowley and mandela barns were kind of going at it in as their

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Canada sees

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Progress in this race as mandela barns kind of felt like david krowley had blocked his path

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Now that mandela barns is out of the way

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Is there a boost coming for krowley? Yeah, I mean, you know, it is possible that among other concerns mandela barns

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Felt snubbed by the fact that governor tony avers backed krowley and not him. He was his lieutenant governor. Um, and so we saw

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Barbs, I mean like almost schoolyard barbs on social media primarily coming from

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Barnes towards krowley, but then krowley would sort of respond in kind so really like a really kind of

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It felt like bad blood between them

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One of the arguments that the barns camp has been making as other candidates have dropped out is we will absorb those votes

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And so now part of the question is where will these

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Remaining sort of barns votes go while they go further left towards hong while they go further towards the center towards krowley

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And of course, I haven't checked the numbers recently, but as of last week a hundred thousand absentee ballots had already been turned

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And I imagine that number is much higher now

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So there's also the question of like of the remaining voters who haven't cast their ballots

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Some of them are undecided, uh, but those who were leaning towards barns now where are they going to go?

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Especially if you know these allegations start to come out and it becomes an even more chaotic news cycle that distracts from

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The actual sort of meat of the campaign

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Uh rich, you know real quick on that law that on those ballots there was a lawsuit filed to try to get them counted

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Uh judge ruled on that this week. What does that mean for those absentee ballots?

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Well, yeah, the judge

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Dismissed or denied to issue an injunction essentially blocking the wisconsin elections commission guidance saying that

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You cannot, um if you have sent in your absentee ballot, you cannot

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Ask for it to be spoiled and and get a new one

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So essentially what that means is that people who have already cast ballots

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for, um, you know lieutenant governor sarah rod regas mandela barns

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Uh, missy hues. They're essentially out of luck

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Um at this point so unless that changes unless this is rushed through an appeal process up to the supreme court and the supreme court

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Makes a ruling before august 11th. It kind of seems like

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Those votes will be counted, but

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They won't go anywhere

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Zach we had a a couple of polls out this week

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Uh, they both showed francesca hong with at least a 20 point lead

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Um

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You know one of them showed mandela barns and marquette showed mandela barns and second david kraillie down at about

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100%

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But in the marquette poll we're looking at a third of voters still undecided

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Now mandela barns is out of the race. You have those undecided voters. David kraillie is still there

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Could this race shake up and change in the closing days?

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Well, every time we say no, we're proven wrong

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It does get shaken up by larger events than what we probably could have predicted on this show

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But the question is is there enough room for any one to gain enough ground to catch the lead

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That francesca hong looks like she has

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Just talking about those absentee ballots that have been cast they're not getting counted back

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The question will be once this race is all over

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Will the margin of votes that mandela barns and rodriga's received add up to the amount that the second place person took

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Or will they have made a difference in some spoiling manner? That'll be interesting math to see but by then we'll have a winner

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Yeah, we're either going to have

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A massive comeback here by one of these candidates coming back to

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I guess edge out francescong at the end or else we're going to have

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The most interesting governors race in the country this November between a democratic socialist and somebody that

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Democrats will paint as an election denier in tom tiffany

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So get ready for a lot of money and ads to come to your state of wisconsin, which we are very used to

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That's all the time we have for today. Thanks for joining us

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This has been inside wisconsin politics

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Be sure to follow us on pbs wisconsin.org wpr.org youtube or wherever you get your podcasts