WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:22.240 Democratic Socialists pick up three big victories in this week's New York City primaries. 00:22.240 --> 00:25.320 Could that momentum carry all the way to Wisconsin? 00:25.320 --> 00:29.080 And the field of Democrats running for governor here finally shrinks. 00:29.080 --> 00:31.120 What is the signal about the race? 00:31.120 --> 00:38.000 This is Inside Wisconsin Politics. 00:38.000 --> 00:42.440 I'm Sean Johnson, here with Anya Van Wechtendank, and Rich Kramer in Eau Claire. 00:42.440 --> 00:43.440 Hey, gang. 00:43.440 --> 00:44.440 Hey, Sean. 00:44.440 --> 00:46.600 So our show this week needs a little bit of setup. 00:46.600 --> 00:51.600 We are, of course, focused on primaries in Wisconsin, but we are looking for clues this 00:51.600 --> 00:54.720 week from primaries that happened in New York. 00:54.720 --> 00:56.440 So Anya, what did happen there? 00:56.440 --> 01:00.880 Yeah, there were a number of congressional primaries, including three candidates who 01:00.880 --> 01:04.800 received the backing of Mayor Zohran Mamdani, himself a socialist. 01:04.800 --> 01:08.720 Two of those candidates also received endorsements from the Democratic Socialists of America, 01:08.720 --> 01:13.200 which is a group that he's also affiliated with, and all three of those candidates won. 01:13.200 --> 01:17.600 In one case, kicking out an incumbent, some of them were political outsiders, so this 01:17.600 --> 01:22.840 was really in some ways an upset and a little bit of a validation for Mamdani, this kind 01:22.880 --> 01:29.160 of further left mayor, for the power that he shows in this significant blue area. 01:29.160 --> 01:33.760 And so a lot of people, as you say, are kind of looking at that as tea leaves for what 01:33.760 --> 01:38.720 that says about the Democratic primary right now and what voters want in their blue candidates. 01:38.720 --> 01:43.640 And I think that you would see states, or people in any state, where Democrats have a 01:43.640 --> 01:46.320 plausible shot at winning, asking these same questions. 01:46.320 --> 01:51.600 So why are we asking it here, though, or what's kind of arthred, where it feels like, hey, 01:51.640 --> 01:53.320 this could really be significant this year. 01:53.320 --> 01:57.320 Right. Obviously, there are many differences between New York City and the state of Wisconsin, 01:57.320 --> 02:01.400 but one of the things that there is kind of in commonality here is that we have this crowded 02:01.400 --> 02:04.720 Democratic race for governor, as we've mentioned. 02:04.720 --> 02:09.680 And one candidate from there, Francesca Hong, is sort of in that same vein as Mamdani and 02:09.680 --> 02:13.920 these kind of, she identifies as a socialist, as a Democratic socialist, she's part of that 02:13.920 --> 02:15.760 caucus in the legislature. 02:15.760 --> 02:21.280 And so when we kind of look at who is going to stand out among this field of now six Democratic 02:21.320 --> 02:27.560 candidates, we wonder kind of to what extent these victories for these further left candidates 02:27.560 --> 02:30.640 means that Fran Hong will stand out among Democrats. 02:30.640 --> 02:34.920 And then what does that mean in a more general election, where, again, a Wisconsin general 02:34.920 --> 02:39.480 election is very different than a New York City primary election? 02:39.480 --> 02:43.760 So we're going to get back to the primary for governor here in just a minute, but Rich, 02:43.760 --> 02:49.880 this was a congressional primary in New York, or congressional primaries, rather. 02:49.880 --> 02:55.880 I wonder how we're seeing this play out, if at all, in Democratic primaries here in 02:55.880 --> 03:01.440 Wisconsin for Congress, you are covering one in the third congressional district in Western 03:01.440 --> 03:02.440 Wisconsin. 03:02.440 --> 03:06.520 You just covered a forum there where there is a Democratic primary. 03:06.520 --> 03:11.360 Do you see any parallels there, or is it a different ball game? 03:11.360 --> 03:12.920 It feels like a different ball game. 03:12.920 --> 03:19.840 I mean, for one, there aren't any DSA candidates in the race for the third congressional district, 03:19.840 --> 03:24.360 but there are some similarities in one way. 03:24.360 --> 03:31.080 So we've got two candidates, and one seems to be trying to portray yourself as the more 03:31.080 --> 03:32.720 progressive of the two. 03:32.720 --> 03:37.960 And one is trying to, or is acting like she's the more moderate candidate. 03:37.960 --> 03:44.120 So these two people are Emily Berge, she's the former city council president of Eau Claire, 03:44.120 --> 03:47.040 has been on the city council for a long time. 03:47.040 --> 03:53.400 So these, the one that during the forum that was last week in Plattville, was offering 03:53.400 --> 03:59.560 up some more of what you would expect progressive candidates to say. 03:59.560 --> 04:05.480 For example, Berge called for Medicare for All, which is universal health care, essentially. 04:05.480 --> 04:11.840 And she said that she would, she bowed to impeach President Donald Trump if she were elected 04:11.840 --> 04:14.480 or support the impeachment. 04:14.480 --> 04:18.960 The other candidate is Rebecca Cook, who has, this is her third run essentially for 04:18.960 --> 04:21.400 the third congressional district. 04:21.400 --> 04:27.660 And she was more reserved in answering those questions. 04:27.660 --> 04:33.320 For example, on Medicare for All, she said, she said she'd love to sign up for all of 04:33.320 --> 04:40.040 these aspirational goals, but she said that it's more likely that if Democrats win the 04:40.040 --> 04:45.800 House majority back, they would go more towards expanding tax credits for the Affordable 04:45.800 --> 04:53.800 Care Act that were passed by Democrats during the earlier years of the COVID pandemic. 04:53.800 --> 04:56.960 And she said, so that would be the immediate first step. 04:56.960 --> 05:01.480 And on impeachment, she said, well, the devil is in the details of what that resolution 05:01.480 --> 05:02.760 would look like. 05:02.760 --> 05:07.280 So those were two of the differences that I noticed right away. 05:07.280 --> 05:14.640 And then another difference that predates the debate by many months, the House Democrats' 05:14.640 --> 05:23.280 national campaign arm essentially endorsed Rebecca Cook like months ago. 05:23.280 --> 05:28.960 And they've offered her support, they've offered her staff, training, et cetera. 05:28.960 --> 05:34.120 And Berge has since said and said during the forum that, you know, it shouldn't be national 05:34.120 --> 05:38.560 Democrats picking who represents the people of the Third District. 05:38.560 --> 05:40.080 It should be voters themselves. 05:40.080 --> 05:47.600 So that's one way that it stood out from what happened in New York, but there's still 05:47.600 --> 05:50.880 kind of two candidates trying to pick their lanes. 05:50.880 --> 05:55.600 And it feels like one is going more of the progressive lane and the other is trying to 05:55.600 --> 05:57.480 go a little bit more moderate. 05:57.480 --> 06:03.120 I think that push-pull between national Democrats and these more kind of, we know our community. 06:03.120 --> 06:06.200 We are kind of the progressive wing. 06:06.200 --> 06:08.040 It was also on display in New York. 06:08.040 --> 06:13.520 A number of the candidates who were defeated were backed by these national Democratic groups 06:13.520 --> 06:15.160 that Rich was just talking about. 06:15.160 --> 06:18.640 And so again, while we're trying to see how our Democrats feeling, how are they kind of 06:18.640 --> 06:24.080 leaning going into what they are hoping broadly to be a wave election, like who are they putting 06:24.080 --> 06:27.120 their money behind as the people who can deliver that? 06:27.120 --> 06:31.280 And so in New York, part of the answer was people whose policies do fall a little bit 06:31.280 --> 06:32.280 to the left. 06:32.280 --> 06:35.320 It's really interesting to see in the governor's race and in some of these competitive congressional 06:35.320 --> 06:40.440 races here in Wisconsin, what do Wisconsin Democrats, where do they put their money behind? 06:40.440 --> 06:44.800 I guess the thing that strikes me is that the thing that's missing in Wisconsin is that 06:44.800 --> 06:50.600 you don't have a massively powerful endorsement, it seems, as they did in New York from Mayor 06:50.600 --> 06:55.880 Mondami, who came in and said, this is what it means to be a Democrat right now. 06:55.880 --> 06:56.880 This is my slate. 06:56.880 --> 06:58.960 Essentially, these are my people. 06:58.960 --> 07:00.480 And it seems to have worked. 07:00.480 --> 07:05.200 Is there anything like that in, let's say, the third congressional district for Emily 07:05.200 --> 07:06.200 Berge? 07:06.200 --> 07:11.680 Is there somebody like that coming in and saying, this is the progressive choice? 07:11.680 --> 07:12.840 Not that I know of. 07:12.840 --> 07:13.840 Not that I know of. 07:13.840 --> 07:19.880 Meanwhile, Cook has gotten all kinds of endorsements from sitting members of Congress, the Senate, 07:19.880 --> 07:25.920 et cetera, and also the backing of the national party and a whole number of third party groups 07:25.920 --> 07:26.920 as well. 07:27.200 --> 07:30.080 I'm not aware of any big endorsements. 07:30.080 --> 07:35.200 Actually, the endorsements that Berge has been promoting have been from essentially local 07:35.200 --> 07:40.120 government, city council, county board, school boards, et cetera. 07:40.120 --> 07:46.400 So I guess I'm wondering if that person who could move the field like that even exists 07:46.400 --> 07:53.160 in Wisconsin for Wisconsin Democrats, I mean, the state party is staying out of this race 07:53.240 --> 07:54.840 for governor. 07:54.840 --> 08:00.520 They have massive financial resources and could tip the field potentially if they wanted 08:00.520 --> 08:01.520 to. 08:01.520 --> 08:02.520 They're definitely not going there. 08:02.520 --> 08:06.240 We have a Democratic governor who has some power. 08:06.240 --> 08:09.880 He's not being vocal with his endorsements. 08:09.880 --> 08:14.320 Is this power vacuum sort of leaving us up in the air about what's going to happen? 08:14.320 --> 08:15.320 Yeah. 08:15.320 --> 08:18.240 We've talked about this a little bit in the context of Republicans because there is such 08:18.320 --> 08:23.160 a clear leader of the party and in President Donald Trump. 08:23.160 --> 08:27.080 And so Democrats don't quite have that for many reasons, including that they don't hold 08:27.080 --> 08:28.400 these majorities in Washington. 08:28.400 --> 08:29.960 They don't hold the White House. 08:29.960 --> 08:34.880 But I think also this really is a little bit of like an existentially exploratory time 08:34.880 --> 08:38.840 for Democrats, both here in Wisconsin, where they are facing the best odds that they've 08:38.840 --> 08:42.000 had in a long time of getting some real legislative power. 08:42.000 --> 08:46.000 But then nationally, seeing there were other primaries that took place on Tuesday as well 08:46.080 --> 08:51.760 outside of New York, where more moderate Democrats won one issue that was really prevalent 08:51.760 --> 08:55.880 in a lot of these races was Israel and the war in Gaza and how that is playing out how 08:55.880 --> 08:58.880 that's kind of dividing up the Democratic party. 08:58.880 --> 09:02.320 We've seen that a little bit in like Milwaukee politics where that's played a real issue. 09:02.320 --> 09:05.760 I don't know to what extent that will be important statewide. 09:05.760 --> 09:10.280 And so that could be one place where Wisconsin's politics, obviously, of course, are naturally 09:10.280 --> 09:15.520 very 50-50 purple stance could look really different than some of these places where Democrats 09:15.600 --> 09:18.640 feel a little bit safer, like we know we're going to get one of our guys in. 09:18.640 --> 09:21.440 So let's try to really move the needle on what that looks like. 09:21.440 --> 09:25.200 So I got to say, as somebody who's covered Wisconsin politics for a while now, it's 09:25.200 --> 09:30.960 still a little bit jarring to me to see people just self-identify as Democratic socialist, 09:30.960 --> 09:32.480 for example. 09:32.480 --> 09:35.080 I think five years ago, I wasn't seeing that. 09:35.080 --> 09:38.320 But I remember Anya, one of the first stories you did when you came to Wisconsin Public 09:38.320 --> 09:44.480 Radio was about this socialist caucus in the Wisconsin legislature where, you know, for 09:44.480 --> 09:48.000 years, it was Republicans who were calling Democrats socialists, and they were like, 09:48.000 --> 09:50.400 no, no, no, no, no, no, we're not, we're just, we're Democrats. 09:50.400 --> 09:54.240 And now Democrats are saying, yeah, we are, that's who we represent. 09:54.240 --> 09:55.240 That's our values. 09:55.240 --> 09:56.240 Yeah. 09:56.240 --> 10:01.240 And like you say, I was, I think, truly a week into my career in 2023, it was a new legislative 10:01.240 --> 10:02.240 session. 10:02.240 --> 10:06.640 And these two assembly members from Milwaukee, they, you know, they caucus with the Democrats, 10:06.640 --> 10:09.000 but they identify as part of the socialist caucus. 10:09.000 --> 10:12.280 That caucus now has grown, I'm going to get the number wrong, but it's something like 10:12.280 --> 10:13.480 seven or eight people. 10:13.480 --> 10:16.040 And so it's, it's not small. 10:16.040 --> 10:20.040 And you're right that there are especially Republican members who will sometimes be so 10:20.040 --> 10:23.480 outraged at this idea that there are people who are identifying as socialists. 10:23.480 --> 10:27.320 But then you also, you know, when I go again to a Francesca Hong rally, that's something 10:27.320 --> 10:30.680 that people see as a, as a reason that they support her. 10:30.680 --> 10:34.160 And so it is one of those things that, yeah, the term can either be an insult or it can 10:34.160 --> 10:37.120 be an endorsement depending on who's leveling it. 10:37.120 --> 10:43.760 Her basic message seems to be, these are dire times, we need a new kind of politics. 10:43.760 --> 10:50.000 Rich, I do think that Republicans have a different take when it comes to this stuff, though, 10:50.000 --> 10:55.440 as they, as you've, as you've seen them react to the results in New York City and what's 10:55.440 --> 11:00.760 going on here in Wisconsin, how do they feel about it? 11:00.760 --> 11:06.240 Well based on what I've seen from, I guess, some of the talking heads on social media, 11:06.240 --> 11:10.480 I could sum it up as this, all Democrats are socialists, that's what Republicans are 11:10.480 --> 11:13.440 trying to pitch right now to voters. 11:13.440 --> 11:18.800 Obviously, we know that there's all kinds of degrees to being a Republican, you know, 11:18.800 --> 11:20.800 conservative, liberal, et cetera. 11:20.800 --> 11:28.160 I mean, just a million different stripes out there, but Republicans are excited about Hong 11:28.160 --> 11:34.240 maybe being the nominee in Wisconsin because they think that that'll give them the best 11:34.240 --> 11:37.240 shot at making sure that Tom Tiffany wins. 11:37.240 --> 11:43.000 And in fact, they have been pointing to this one, one poll that came out weeks and weeks 11:43.000 --> 11:48.880 ago, maybe longer, that showed head-to-head match-ups with all of the Democratic candidates. 11:48.880 --> 11:52.080 At the time, there were the seven major candidates. 11:52.080 --> 11:58.520 And literally the only one in that poll that lost to, or that, that Tiffany wouldn't have 11:58.520 --> 12:04.720 lost to, again, it's all theoretical, and it only, I guess, represents what people 12:04.720 --> 12:08.840 who took the survey felt on that day, but it was Francesca Hong. 12:08.840 --> 12:15.080 And so not only are they literally talking about, well, we hope that this is the nominee, 12:15.080 --> 12:20.600 there are also some, some Republicans are saying, hey, why don't you go out and meddle 12:20.600 --> 12:25.600 in that primary, vote for Hong, you know, cross over, because the other primaries on 12:25.600 --> 12:27.800 the GOP side aren't as big of a deal. 12:27.800 --> 12:33.000 I literally saw a post last night saying the race for governor is the whole game. 12:33.000 --> 12:39.640 So Republicans go cross over, vote for Hong, that'll make it easier for Tiffany in the 12:39.640 --> 12:40.480 general. 12:40.480 --> 12:47.120 So yeah, there are politics sometimes when you're attacking opponents, you like to paint 12:47.120 --> 12:48.200 with a broad brush. 12:48.200 --> 12:54.400 So they're seeing this rise up of some of these Democratic socialist candidates around 12:54.400 --> 12:55.800 America. 12:55.800 --> 12:57.320 And they're saying, well, look. 12:57.320 --> 12:59.120 This is Democrats in disarray. 12:59.120 --> 13:03.560 This is proof that the party has moved to the left, et cetera, et cetera. 13:03.560 --> 13:06.360 I wish we had more polling right now on this race. 13:06.360 --> 13:12.080 You look back at the recent public poll and it's like in March in terms of Marquette polls, 13:12.080 --> 13:16.760 for example, I have a feeling though that you might have a lot of people saying, I haven't 13:16.760 --> 13:18.840 heard enough about the candidates and I haven't made it my mind. 13:18.840 --> 13:19.840 It's June. 13:19.840 --> 13:20.840 Leave me alone. 13:20.840 --> 13:22.040 But let's talk about the field. 13:22.040 --> 13:28.680 We had a seven candidate Democratic primary this week shrink to a six candidate primary. 13:28.680 --> 13:30.960 Can we still use the word crowded when we're talking about that? 13:30.960 --> 13:32.760 It's big anyway for a primary field. 13:32.760 --> 13:34.120 So pretty crowded, I'm sorry. 13:34.120 --> 13:39.960 Miss Hughes dropped out the former CEO of the state's economic development agency. 13:39.960 --> 13:43.400 She immediately endorsed Lieutenant Governor Sarah Rodriguez. 13:43.400 --> 13:45.400 This is just an open question. 13:45.400 --> 13:47.160 How big a deal was this? 13:47.160 --> 13:50.880 Well, you know, we've been talking for weeks about are we going to see any dropouts before 13:50.880 --> 13:51.880 August? 13:51.880 --> 13:52.880 And so this was the first one. 13:52.880 --> 13:54.720 It was definitely a bit of breaking news. 13:54.720 --> 13:57.320 And I think one of the things that we've been talking about so much is this idea of 13:57.320 --> 14:02.800 lanes and how these candidates can kind of stand out and make themselves seem, you know, 14:02.800 --> 14:05.160 picking me would be different than picking anyone else. 14:05.160 --> 14:09.360 And so I think in her statement and then an interview she gave after, Miss Hughes kind 14:09.360 --> 14:14.400 of, she spoke about the ways that Democrats are going to hurt each other if they are 14:14.400 --> 14:18.600 trying to, if they are taking up space that could be taken up by somebody else. 14:18.600 --> 14:21.440 She said she hopes to see other people drop out. 14:21.440 --> 14:24.840 And so I think that is a little bit of a nod to the fact that they need that while Democrats 14:24.840 --> 14:28.080 are trying to figure out who they are trying to be, what they are trying to represent, 14:28.080 --> 14:32.240 and how do I beat Tom Tiffany or other people who are picked by Donald Trump? 14:32.240 --> 14:34.040 What does that look like for the Democrats? 14:34.040 --> 14:38.440 And so I think this was a signal that one person at least made that calculus of what 14:38.440 --> 14:44.720 was good for the party and then how to kind of throw her power and her weight behind that. 14:44.720 --> 14:47.640 Rich? 14:47.640 --> 14:50.800 I would say that it's not that big of a deal. 14:50.800 --> 14:55.800 It doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me because Hughes wasn't pulling very high 14:55.800 --> 15:00.200 and running for office, even running a primary, it's very expensive. 15:00.200 --> 15:05.720 So I have no idea why she decided to step down or out of the race. 15:05.720 --> 15:10.080 But the endorsement of is something. 15:10.080 --> 15:16.640 But again, there are still six people in the race and I'll just say that Hughes dropping 15:16.640 --> 15:17.640 out. 15:17.640 --> 15:25.080 She was essentially a pro-business kind of a Democrat, talked a lot about how if you improve 15:25.080 --> 15:30.440 the economy, you can improve people's lives with these other programs and et cetera. 15:30.440 --> 15:36.000 But the Republicans have said, well, look, if more proof, they're pushing the moderates 15:36.000 --> 15:37.000 out. 15:37.000 --> 15:40.600 So it's all a word game, I guess. 15:40.600 --> 15:44.360 But big picture, I'm not sure it makes a huge deal. 15:45.360 --> 15:49.400 She was the kind of candidate who you could imagine in a Democratic year like we could 15:49.400 --> 15:53.120 be headed toward in the Trump midterm. 15:53.120 --> 15:57.800 If she was the general election candidate, you could imagine someone like Missy Hughes 15:57.800 --> 15:59.360 winning and become a governor. 15:59.360 --> 16:04.000 But in a Democratic primary, pitching that business message, especially at this moment 16:04.000 --> 16:05.960 in time, it seemed like a hard sell. 16:05.960 --> 16:12.320 She also did go for that moderate lane a little bit there a month or so ago when she was the 16:12.320 --> 16:17.000 only one who came out really in support of that failed surplus deal that was negotiated 16:17.000 --> 16:23.640 by Tony Evers and Robin Voss among other Republicans in the legislature. 16:23.640 --> 16:26.480 The other thing that made her unique is that she comes from Western Wisconsin. 16:26.480 --> 16:27.480 That's right. 16:27.480 --> 16:28.480 She's the only one. 16:28.480 --> 16:29.480 Right. 16:29.480 --> 16:32.760 This sort of bastion of Democratic politics has moved very far away from that. 16:32.760 --> 16:35.240 Every other candidate is Milwaukee or Madison. 16:35.240 --> 16:39.320 And so it's also, I think, a little bit of a signifier that she was not able to make 16:39.320 --> 16:44.560 much of a splash even with that more rural, farmer-focused Western Wisconsin background 16:44.560 --> 16:48.760 that, again, as we look at where is the party going, that it seems to be going towards 16:48.760 --> 16:52.200 the major basis of Milwaukee County, Dane County. 16:52.200 --> 16:53.200 Okay. 16:53.200 --> 16:55.080 Another open question here, I guess. 16:55.080 --> 16:59.880 Is there any connection, do you think, to the Francesca Hong story that we've been talking 16:59.880 --> 17:04.640 about and Missy Hughes endorsing someone like Sarah Rodriguez? 17:04.640 --> 17:10.720 Is she making a bet that, look, this candidate's politics kind of aligns with mine, we got 17:10.720 --> 17:14.840 to unite and stop the candidates from the left? 17:14.840 --> 17:16.120 I mean, I don't know what's in her heart. 17:16.120 --> 17:17.120 Sure. 17:17.120 --> 17:18.120 I would never guess. 17:18.120 --> 17:21.680 But, again, from this idea of not wanting to kind of crowd out people who are similar 17:21.680 --> 17:26.320 to you, who have similar politics, who you think could do a good and effective job in making 17:26.320 --> 17:28.040 those politics a reality. 17:28.040 --> 17:32.000 If you have one quite popular candidate who is Francesca Hong, again, polling shows 17:32.000 --> 17:35.680 her towards the top, and then you have a number of people kind of further towards 17:35.680 --> 17:38.240 the center, all fighting amongst themselves, right? 17:38.240 --> 17:42.760 Missy Hughes voters and Fran Hong voters were probably never going to, you know, nobody's 17:42.760 --> 17:45.000 vacillating between those two candidates. 17:45.000 --> 17:49.840 And so that's maybe a way of trying to bring some more strength into the not democratic 17:49.840 --> 17:54.680 socialist wing of the Democratic Party, going into what's expected to just be an incredibly 17:54.680 --> 17:56.240 tight general election. 17:56.240 --> 18:01.440 She did say something in her press conference where she endorsed Sarah Rodriguez. 18:01.440 --> 18:04.240 She can't come out there and say, hey, I'm kind of the moderate candidate. 18:04.240 --> 18:05.240 I support her. 18:05.240 --> 18:08.560 But she said, we don't need, we got a lot of good things going on in this state. 18:08.560 --> 18:09.920 We don't need to tear it all down. 18:09.920 --> 18:15.600 So that, to me, is a signal that she supports the kind of politics, which is similar to 18:15.600 --> 18:20.360 what we've got already in Wisconsin, including the Evers administration, which she and she 18:20.360 --> 18:22.560 and Sarah Rodriguez have served under. 18:22.560 --> 18:24.720 So that's all the time we have today. 18:24.720 --> 18:25.880 Thanks for joining us. 18:25.880 --> 18:29.080 Our colleague Zach Schultz will be back next week. 18:29.080 --> 18:31.520 This has been Inside Wisconsin Politics. 18:31.520 --> 18:38.240 Be sure to follow us on pbswisconsin.org, wpr.org, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.